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Ladies...I need help/advice...I'm at the end of my rope with my eldest son


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Hello, pink, we must be twins.

 

What played out in your house? That was my house, and I wish I knew what to do when he was 14 so I could have stopped it.

 

I did it all wrong. I escalated the anger. I was punitive, and I had been brought up that when a kid has a strong will, your will has to be stronger. I did it all wrong.

 

This is going to sound contrarian, but here's what you do.

 

First, let it go for a few days. Don't engage him. Just pick up after him. Let him get calm.

 

Then what you do, is loop your arm through his, and give him a little poke, and tell him you want to go for a walk. Use humor and make sure he goes.

 

Then, When you're on a walk, put your arm around his shoulders, pull him in tight, and tell him you love him. Tell him the story about how he was born, and how happy you were. Tell him precious stories about himself, and you, when he was a baby. Tell him that there is nothing in this world that he can do to make you love him less. Then, tell him that you are upset that your relationship is hurting, and you want to start over. But it's going to take his help, too. YOu have to make an agreement to respect eachother and use nice words.

 

And, when he pisses you off, you have to be the bigger person, and take the punch. Meaning, you don't get angry back. Escalating it gets NOWHERE. You don't want to go up, right? You don't want to ratchet it up a notch.

 

He will get angry and pissed off. Acknowledge it. I'm sorry you're upset today, and I want to let you have some time, but can you do this thing or me?

 

Here's the thing, he is SO used to being on the defensive and angry, he's building walls that soon you won't be able to scale. And, part of it is crappy hormone teen stuff, and he really is having trouble handling it. So, show him how. Be the captain. Navigate him through these waters.

 

I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again.

 

I pretty much hated my son. He had a litany of sins, and we were at an impasse. We were two bulls with locked horns. And, I was deeply resentful. I mean, I didn't want to see him, talk to him, if he LOOKED at me it made me mad. There was *nothing* this kid could do right.

 

During that time, we became RCC and I started going to confession. And I confessed that I deeply resented him. I was bawling my eyes out, it was so bad. And the priest told me to say something nice to him.

 

Sounds trite, no?

 

Our relationship started healing that day. He moved out, but from that day forward, there was a plank put back in the bridge. We have a good relationship now. Not great, but it gets better all the time.

 

LAUGH together. Really. Find something that you two can laugh at, read some Calvin and Hobbes and show him and laugh together. However your family humor is, NOW is the time to use it. THe house is heavy enough as it is, set it back to even with some laughter. For every ONE thing you say that is a directive, make sure you say 5 things that are nice.

 

See, what he is immaturely trying to tell you is that he doesn't have enough in his emotional bank account from you. And you're bouncing checks. So, start making deposits. Then, when you ask him, say, "Would you do this for me?" And thank him when he's done. give him hugs. Pick him up a funny pez at the store. THink of him. You're thinking of him too negatively now, and he knows it, so you have to turn that around. And you love him and you can.

 

:grouphug:

Edited by justamouse
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:iagree: totally with this. :D

 

I disagree... Well, if by "authority figure" you mean 'a person who is allowed to hit others when they loose their temper' -- then maybe you are right. That's not what I think "authority figure" means.

 

On the contrary, in my opinion, it is *very* hard to be a person who resists the urge to hit others. It is *very* hard for anybody and everybody and sometimes we all flounder. For example, parents sometimes slap their children when the child says a hateful thing during an argument. That's not "authority" -- that's a mistake. For another example when a parent *slaps* a teenager in the middle of an argument, sometimes the teenager hits back... that's also a mistake. Neither action is right, but both actions are essentially the same (except that one was the mistake of an adult and the other was the mistake of a child).

 

In general adults are expected to have better self control than teenagers. Therefore in an argument that has the adult/parent losing control, we would not reasonably expect a teenager to maintain control.

 

In this sitution, when the adult lost control, the teenager (amazingly) kept control of his body, refrained from hitting back, and instead resorted to merely *saying* something about his strong urge to hit. All-round, a bad situation... but not, I think, what you seem to think it was.

 

I want to quote this too:

 

I really think that too. I hope I'm not being harsh-in-text. It's so hard to convey the right tone on forums!

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I agree with what justamouse says. My boys went through a rough time between 12-14yo. It lasted longer with my 2nd than my oldest and I recognized it for what it was...hormones, teen angst, whatever. I had to completely change my interactions with each of them. Give out lots of hugs, talk to them, tell them what I loved about them often, and ask them to help out in a way that gave them a choice...would you please do this or that? Most importantly I took time to listen to them.

 

I didn't lose my temper or escalate the anger when they talked back or gave me a hard time. I just remained calm and told them what I would and would not tolerate from them. If they didn't listen, they lost something...were not allowed to do something they wanted to do. I didn't tell them in an angry way...just matter of fact then I closed the argument.

 

We made it through and are now on the other side. My husband tends to get angry, try to take a hard stance, and not remain calm. He still often has a difficult relationship with them.

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I'm so sorry, that must be so tough. I don't have much advice to give. My sister was in a similar situation with her third son. Her husband left when he was three. The two older boys were so sweet and mellow growing up, but this third one had a bitterness in him right from the get-go. My sister said that in high school, he rarely went one day without saying "I hate you" to her.

 

My sister is the sweetest person I know, never raising her voice. I think she babied him and let him always have his way, but I also think he was bitter about various things. He was also small (smaller than his brothers), and I think that had something to do with it. He felt like he had to constantly prove that he was tough even if he didn't look like it.

 

Does your son have any male role model that he looks up to? My own father was very involved in my nephew's life. He went to every sports game of his, and had a lot of father-son talks with him when he was a teen, about appropriate behavior and how to treat his mother. I think it helped.

 

He is now 25, and has matured a lot. He still has an edge to him, but he has learned how to control his outbursts, and he treats his mother so much better. I can tell he really loves and appreciates her.

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See, what he is immaturely trying to tell you is that he doesn't have enough in his emotional bank account from you. And you're bouncing checks. So, start making deposits. Then, when you ask him, say, "Would you do this for me?" And thank him when he's done. give him hugs. Pick him up a funny pez at the store. THink of him. You're thinking of him too negatively now, and he knows it, so you have to turn that around. And you love him and you can.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree: Absolutely.

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Hello, pink, we must be twins.

 

What played out in your house? That was my house, and I wish I knew what to do when he was 14 so I could have stopped it.

 

I did it all wrong. I escalated the anger. I was punitive, and I had been brought up that when a kid has a strong will, your will has to be stronger. I did it all wrong.

 

This is going to sound contrarian, but here's what you do.

 

First, let it go for a few days. Don't engage him. Just pick up after him. Let him get calm.

 

Then what you do, is loop your arm through his, and give him a little poke, and tell him you want to go for a walk. Use humor and make sure he goes.

 

Then, When you're on a walk, put your arm around his shoulders, pull him in tight, and tell him you love him. Tell him the story about how he was born, and how happy you were. Tell him precious stories about himself, and you, when he was a baby. Tell him that there is nothing in this world that he can do to make you love him less. Then, tell him that you are upset that your relationship is hurting, and you want to start over. But it's going to take his help, too. YOu have to make an agreement to respect eachother and use nice words.

 

And, when he pisses you off, you have to be the bigger person, and take the punch. Meaning, you don't get angry back. Escalating it gets NOWHERE. You don't want to go up, right? You don't want to ratchet it up a notch.

 

He will get angry and pissed off. Acknowledge it. I'm sorry you're upset today, and I want to let you have some time, but can you do this thing or me?

 

Here's the thing, he is SO used to being on the defensive and angry, he's building walls that soon you won't be able to scale. And, part of it is crappy hormone teen stuff, and he really is having trouble handling it. So, show him how. Be the captain. Navigate him through these waters.

 

I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again.

 

I pretty much hated my son. He had a litany of sins, and we were at an impasse. We were two bulls with locked horns. And, I was deeply resentful. I mean, I didn't want to see him, talk to him, if he LOOKED at me it made me mad. There was *nothing* this kid could do right.

 

During that time, we became RCC and I started going to confession. And I confessed that I deeply resented him. I was bawling my eyes out, it was so bad. And the priest told me to say something nice to him.

 

Sounds trite, no?

 

Our relationship started healing that day. He moved out, but from that day forward, there was a plank put back in the bridge. We have a good relationship now. Not great, but it gets better all the time.

 

LAUGH together. Really. Find something that you two can laugh at, read some Calvin and Hobbes and show him and laugh together. However your family humor is, NOW is the time to use it. THe house is heavy enough as it is, set it back to even with some laughter. For every ONE thing you say that is a directive, make sure you say 5 things that are nice.

 

See, what he is immaturely trying to tell you is that he doesn't have enough in his emotional bank account from you. And you're bouncing checks. So, start making deposits. Then, when you ask him, say, "Would you do this for me?" And thank him when he's done. give him hugs. Pick him up a funny pez at the store. THink of him. You're thinking of him too negatively now, and he knows it, so you have to turn that around. And you love him and you can.

 

:grouphug:

 

:001_wub:

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There is a book that will help you, really really help you. It is called "The Explosive Child" by Greene http://www.amazon.com/The-Explosive-Child-Understanding-Chronically/dp/0061906190. My son was younger when I went through something similar (but not so vitriolic), and this book was a life saver. It is written by a psychologist who works with kids/teens like yours (and worse) and teaches you a very explicit, objective method to teach him internal control without using rewards and punishments (which often backfire in kids like yours). It is just excellent.

 

Ruth in NZ

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I disagree... Well, if by "authority figure" you mean 'a person who is allowed to hit others when they loose their temper' -- then maybe you are right. That's not what I think "authority figure" means.

 

On the contrary, in my opinion, it is *very* hard to be a person who resists the urge to hit others. It is *very* hard for anybody and everybody and sometimes we all flounder. For example, parents sometimes slap their children when the child says a hateful thing during an argument. That's not "authority" -- that's a mistake. For another example when a parent *slaps* a teenager in the middle of an argument, sometimes the teenager hits back... that's also a mistake. Neither action is right, but both actions are essentially the same (except that one was the mistake of an adult and the other was the mistake of a child).

 

In general adults are expected to have better self control than teenagers. Therefore in an argument that has the adult/parent losing control, we would not reasonably expect a teenager to maintain control.

 

In this sitution, when the adult lost control, the teenager (amazingly) kept control of his body, refrained from hitting back, and instead resorted to merely *saying* something about his strong urge to hit. All-round, a bad situation... but not, I think, what you seem to think it was.

 

I want to quote this too:

 

I really think that too. I hope I'm not being harsh-in-text. It's so hard to convey the right tone on forums!

 

Authority figures are still authority figures, whether they act perfectly or not. It is their role, whether they make mistakes or not. They can slap their child and still be in authority. And a child can threaten to behave as if they were the parent, and it can indeed be an attempt to usurp authority. This is not unheard of in teenagers.

 

Some teenagers, in fact, seem to feel some instinct to see just how far they can go, particularly with those they know intimately enough to hurt, to see if they can incite a violent reaction. Sure, it's great if they don't hit back, but don't give them too much credit.

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Authority figures are still authority figures, whether they act perfectly or not. It is their role, whether they make mistakes or not. They can slap their child and still be in authority.

Oh, defintely... all parents make mistakes. All I'm saying is that their authority does not come from their mistakes, it exists in spite of their mistakes.

 

And a child can threaten to behave as if they were the parent, and it can indeed be an attempt to usurp authority. This is not unheard of in teenagers.

*If* it is an attempt to usurp authority by behaving as if they were the parent, the teen would (a) behave like the parent does when the parent is expressing authority, not like when the parent does when s/he has lost control and is merely acting out of temper, and (b) would be attempting to assert their desired authority over other people, such as the parent, not just desiring to be, individually, in charge of the self by denying the righfulness of the parent's authority. (That is either 'rebellion' or 'good boundaries' -- not usurpation of authority.)

 

The action of hitting back when one is struck during an argument, or hitting in response to hurt, hate, insult or offense has little to do with authority. It is clear that, when a person has lost their temper, they might strike people who have authoirty over them, they might strike their peers, and they might strike those who have been entrusted to their leadership. Hitting out of temper is an equal-opportunity mistake.

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I don't have much advice. I am just :bigear: here. This is hard, because so many of these posts make sense, but some are contradictory. I'm not sure what I would do, but Justamouse's post really resonates with me. I think there is much there that is truly valuable. Whatever you do, I am sending many :grouphug: your way.

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I think the advice justamouse gave you was really good.

 

When we're going through a rough patch with one of our kids, I try to compliment them on the things they're doing right. Last night dd folded and put away three loads of laundry without me asking- and I made sure she knows I appreciate it. And I also tell them little snippets of things they did when they were little- it's goofy stuff but they smile and seem to love that I still look back fondly on those things.

 

I find that if I compliment them when they do things right, they seem to more willingly accept when I tell them things they need to improve on. And there's plenty of things they need to do better...these days are making me growl quite a bit.

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I think it is normal, and it is worse with some than others - girls or boys. The only one of mine that was as disrespectful as you describe (I was sure he actually hated me), was my second son.

 

He grew out of it, but it took him joining the MC and spending some time away from home. A few years ago, I heard him tell one of my younger sons not to speak to me disrespectfully. I wanted to say, "really?"

 

He is now married and has a son of his own. He calls or Skypes me almost every day, and we are very close. He comes home every chance he gets. All that to say: he will outgrow it and he doesn't really hate you. It hurts like nothing else when you're in the middle of it, though. :grouphug:

 

It is wonderful now, but I will never forget how awful he made me feel. I felt like such a failure. My dh gave me some advice when all that was going on that I'll pass along. He said "Don't take it personally. He is so miserable himself, and is too arrogant to believe it is his own fault. He knows it is safe to take it out on you, because you love him more than anyone else and that isn't going to change." I tried to remember that when things got really bad.

 

We went through a painful, dramatic stretch of time when my oldest was 14. My dh told me something similar, that it was safe to treat Mom badly, knowing she would always love him.

 

He's 16 now and there's definite light at the end of the tunnel. We had some changes in our family when he was 15, and he did end up going to school. We were really clear with him that it was what we thought was best for him, that we still wanted him around, we just thought it was time for a change in his best interests. He said he didn't want to go, but went willingly enough and has thrived. There were some adjustments over the first few months, but things seem to be going smoothly now.

 

I don't have any advice, just wanted to let you know that I think this is common, it is very painful, you're not alone, and I think this will pass, especially as you keep working on your end of the relationship and encouraging him to work on his.

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I'm sorry.

 

Kids are different. Kids have different reasons for doing things. Different reactions. I'll just tell you about my teen boy.

 

My oldest son has always been a bit difficult. He doesn't accept advice well. He doesn't accept correction well. He's not a huggy kid or one who expresses affection easily. He's pretty negative actually. There is not a negative thing in his life that he doesn't tell us about. We would get in these terrible, never-ending arguments. Ugh. There was no peace and he would take the emotional turmoil out on his younger siblings.

 

DH said to me after one of these arguments, you just can't shut up, can you? You see, I couldn't let anything go. I needed him to understand. Needed him to be a kind person. Needed him to understand what he was doing to the rest of us. My need was making it all worse. I doubted his ability to be a good person.

 

I made a few changes.

I stopped reminding him of things. I just let him know what the the thing was, when it needed to be done, and the consequence of something being undone. The consequence should be natural, not controlling. If it puts someone out, he owes them time and effort. That's it. No emotion. Limit negative interactions. Don't take it personally. Walk away.

If it doesn't matter, I don't let it matter.

If he says something that hurts, I let him know it hurts. I ask for better and if he can't give me better then I let him know that hurting people comes with consequences (usually that they won't do things for you or hang out with you to be hurt).

I let him know that I respect him.

I give him responsibility because I respect him. I don't 'take care of him.' He's not a preschooler. We take care of each other.

I ask him for advice sometimes.

I listen to the complaints..and happy things.

 

More than anything though, I don't take it personally. Teens are part child and part adult, who secretly want to be adults. The trick is to treat them like adults as much as possible while modeling the skills they haven't learned yet.

 

That's my son though. Hopefully something there helps.

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1. He is a child, as you said, and I do think 14 year olds should still be checked up on for teeth-brushing. They are too young to realize how much comes from not -- root canals, implants, etc.

 

 

 

:iagree: Even if the child is past the age when reminders should be necessary, as long as the parents are the ones who have to pay the dentist's bill, they may still need to be said.

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:iagree: Even if the child is past the age when reminders should be necessary, as long as the parents are the ones who have to pay the dentist's bill, they may still need to be said.

 

I agree. I'm still having medical problems because I didn't realize realize the ramifications of not caring for my teeth when I was an adolescent. My friend's mom pushed her all the time to take care of her teeth, even when my friend was a teen, and she still has perfect dental health and no cavities. I'm jealous.

 

Poor dental hygiene has been linked to heart disease as well.

 

It's hard for a 15 year old to think about how their teeth have to last another 70 or more years...

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First of all, don't send him to school. He'll just pick up bad behavior that you'll have to undo later.

Second, all this is normal. He is exploring being his own self and is starting to detach from mom.

Third, always make up. Even if you have terrible fights, always apologize later if you were wrong, and if you were right, tell him you forgive him. Always hug and make up afterwards.

Fourth, when you are having a rotten day, go to the movies! This works great as a tension dissipator. Buy a big popcorn and enjoy a movie together!

I suggest you buy a timer for the

toothbrushing and set it. Tell him he has 5 minutes and set the timer. That will help in the wandering around. He'll realize 5 minutes are gone and the teeth are still not brushed.

Hang in there! He's hormonal so he's taking it out on you!

We are behind you!

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I haven't read all the responses, but my answer- just keep loving him. Show him, tell him, hold your tongue when needed. When you do need to say something use the least amount words and try to use the kindest words possible. Let him know you're hurt/disappointed, but that you love him. It IS hard, but keep that relationship open and safe for him.

 

:grouphug:

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:grouphug: I'm so sorry. Our oldest is almost 14 and she is a fiery personality and is adopted from birth and we have younger bio. kids. These teen years have been challenging and I think it is a combo. of her issues with being the only one adopted in our family, hormones, and personality. You are so not alone. This parenting gig is not for the faint of heart.

 

 

 

MamaT ~ thank you so very much for the hope and encouragement!

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This kind of think is what Total Transformation was created for. I'd check it out. Dh and I are very slowly going through it before our son hits that level of difficulty.

 

We've also made drastic changes to our diet to ensure he gets the best nutrition we can manage, because we believe diet can affect behavior. We're seeing good results. He and his little brother, who constantly fight (mostly my older son being mean), have been playing together, smiling together, and getting along all week.

 

 

I hope you find the answers you need.

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:iagree: Even if the child is past the age when reminders should be necessary, as long as the parents are the ones who have to pay the dentist's bill, they may still need to be said.

 

I did actually make our son pay a filling bill in his teens. :lol: But, I am still reminding my near 13 year old to brush his teeth, and I know I did with Aaron when he was 14. I have noticed that when relationships become a possibility to them, they brush on their own. :lol: But, if their actions can cause some sort of damage, I accept that I will remind them/keep them on track until they are adults. Now, I wasn't reminding about teeth at 17, but situations like driving, texting, friends, etc. -- yep.

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"It's not my fault that I didn't do it the first time. I'm a kid. That's what kids do!" "It's not my fault you had five kids. You shouldn't complain when you have to clean up after us!"

 

I asked him what he thinks about me and he said "Nothing nice. Nothing that I can say. It's all just curse words." Then he said that there are a few good things about me but that I ruin them all with my personality.

 

I'm glad to hear that you seem to have gotten on the right track. But I still want to address this type of behavior because we lived through it for several years with our dd, who was adopted at age 11.

 

First, I would inform your son that he is responsible for what comes out of his mouth and that you are holding him accountable for hateful words. He can feel however he wants, but he cannot verbally abuse you or anyone else in the family. In our house, we have a "No b!tching, griping, moaning, whining, or complaining" rule. I even have those words, surrounded by one of those red circles with a line through it, hung up on the fridge. Constant snarky, gripey, woe-is-me comments eat away at a harmonious environment, and I don't allow them.

 

Second, I would have your dh back you up. My husband finally said to our mouthy young daughter, "Your mother is the woman I love, and I will let NO ONE speak to her the way you do." For a while he took over disciplining dd when she treated me poorly to drive home the point that it wasn't just me being a b!tch, her behavior was out of line and dh was going to do something about it.

 

And finally, starting when dd was 15, we made it clear that living at home was a privilege that depended on her appropriate treatment of other family members. I know not everyone agrees with that view, but having lived with someone who poisoned the environment for years, we drew the line. We told her that everyone in our family had a right to live in a home that was free from abuse, and that if she couldn't see fit to clean up her act, we would arrange for her to live elsewhere. We were very clear about the fact that our responsibility to protect our other children, and ourselves, from constant abuse was greater than her right to express herself.

 

Dd is now 18 and doing pretty well. Last spring we came dangerously close to her moving in with her aunt in another state. She finally realized everything she would have to give up if she did, and her behavior improved dramatically.

 

The bottom line is, people who live in a family are responsible for treating one another appropriately, and I don't give teens a pass because they are hormonal and self-centered. Everyone can learn to behave appropriately, and I value myself (and my family) enough not to be the constant target of negative feelings.

 

Good luck with your son. :grouphug:

 

Tara

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Quoting the UPDATE from the OP:

UPDATE: Oh goodness, you gals have been so kind, supportive, and encouraging to me today and I really needed it so very much. I cannot thank each of you enough. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, thank you!

 

Well, I did go to my son this afternoon and apologize for acting childish, for shouting and throwing a glass, for threatening to send him to school. I told him that it wasn't my intent but I realize that I was trying to manipulate him into behaving the way I want him to behave by threatening him. That was wrong. He is a young man and will choose how he wants to behave and I understand that. I told him that I love him more than anything and I want to make things right between us. He graciously accepted my apology and offered one of his own, of his own volition. He said that he doesn't hate me and he's sorry for telling me that I ruin everything. He was just angry like I was.

 

He asked to go with me to the supermarket tonight when I had to make a quick trip. He never goes to the store with me. I cannot remember the last time we went to the supermarket together. He talked more in the car. He asked me to go rock wall climbing with him tomorrow night, just the two of us. He's never asked me before; that is something he always does with Dad. He's trying to make up with me. I love him so much. : )

 

My son has a good relationship with my dh; we got married just after his 4th birthday. My dh is really great with him and treats him no differently than his biological children. Over the last year and a half they've become joined at the hip and do lots of Boy Scout stuff together and just hang out together a lot. I'm open with my ds about his biological father when he brings it up, which isn't often, but occasionally. I've told him before of good qualities that I see in him that remind me of his biological father. He hasn't brought it up recently but I'll ask him tomorrow if he's been thinking about it. I'm certain he feels comfortable talking to me about it -- at least, he always has in the past. Despite our blow ups he does confide in me.

 

My ds is really a great young man. I feel like I made him out not to be, but I know you all know what I meant because so many of you have been here. My son is amazing with his baby sister and eagerly plays with his brothers -- he's such a great person. I'm lucky to have him. I know I can't take things so personally anymore and I have made up my mind firmly not to engage him when he's testy or escalate things by having to have the last word. It doesn't help. That's a shortcoming of mine and I'm aware of it.

 

I've read each and every response here and will again -- so many great suggestions and just kind and encouraging words. Thank you all again. : )

That's so encouraging!

 

I think you might want to maximize this current period of openness and calm to arrange for him to see a counsellor (or do family counselling) maybe once or twice a month to keep things on track.

 

When he starts acting in crummy ways again, say to yourself over and over again: "I *AM* the only adult in this relationship. He needs me to be his parent. The worse he behaves the more I know that he doesn't have a mature brain yet, and he needs me."

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