If you don't do youth group could you tell me why (much more inside)?

[M&M]

Let me give you a little history. Dh and I were not raised in homes that really led us in our faith. My parents never went to church, rarely talked about what they believed, dh parents were a little better. They sent us both to Christian school when the ps got too bad (dh and I grew up in the same neighborhood). We participated in the youth group at the church our school was associated and learned so much about our faith there. The only problem was that we both started dating and got into relationships that were not beneficial (very diplomatically put..no?).

 

Fast forward. Now we are raising our children and are intentially passing on our faith to them. I have already gotten into some conflicts with our pastor and children's program leaders when I didn't put our baby in the nursery. I would love a family integrated church, but there are none in this area. my family loves our church, so we are staying put.

 

There is no youth group right now, they are looking to start something for the 6th -9th graders during church (which I am opposed to). This summer they have started to have Wii sports parties at the pastor's house on Friday nights for these middle schoolers. They are supervised by the Pastor's daughter and her husband (whom we love and are friends with dd).

 

Does this sound like the beginning of a youth group? Would this be and activity you would avoid if your were agianst youth groups.

 

Dh and I are on the fence about how to view youth groups these days. It was good for us, but it would have been better to have been discipled by my parents (in a perfect world). We have been listening to Voddie Baucham and he has some really good points.

 

Ok, this has gotten long....what say you?

[Robymomof3]

I certainly understand your concern regarding youth groups. We are members of a very large church with a large youth group. I have always questioned whether or not to allow our children to participate.

 

This year our son is going into 6th grade which means this is his first year in youth group. Dh and I have decided to allow him to participate, but to become involved ourselves working with the youth. This way we can know the other kids and their families and can stay on top of what's happening.

[Erica in PA]

Do you also want to hear from people who do think youth groups are a good idea? I think it all depends on the youth group. A good, Biblically based youth group can be an excellent activity for young people to be involved with. Parents have the primary responsibility to disciple, but I don't think allowing participation in a youth group negates that; instead, I consider it a supplement.

 

My oldest son just joined our church's youth group this year. My husband is a co-leader, and I help out where needed. I'm really excited for the opportunity for my husband to serve, and for my son to be part of this group as well. Our church is committed to making an effort to keep the kids integrated into the church family, and not having the youth always go off by themselves to do their own things. We're also committed to not following the entertainment-based model that's been prevalent for the past couple of decades in youth ministry.

 

 

Erica

[VaKim]

We just don't believe in segregating the church by ages. It contributes to the "youth culture" mentality, which we see as a problem, regardless of the content of the classes. Also, our conviction is that it is just not biblical.

[Ginger]

[. We're also committed to not following the entertainment-based model that's been prevalent for the past couple of decades in youth ministry.>>

 

Could you share with us what your youth group is like? It would be refreshing to find something like that around here.

 

Ginger

[M&M]

We're also committed to not following the entertainment-based model that's been prevalent for the past couple of decades in youth ministry.

 

 

 

 

I think this entertainment based youth model could potentially be accepted at our church. The problem is there is nothing established, so we would be walking in blind.

[M&M]

We just don't believe in segregating the church by ages. It contributes to the "youth culture" mentality, which we see as a problem, regardless of the content of the classes. Also, our conviction is that it is just not biblical.

 

 

Would you see the Wii sports party as a youth culture activity or a social activity? There are few middle schoolers at our church, so most are dd friends.

[Tracey in TX]

I like the concept of a youth group, but my children are already uber-involved in sports and don't want to increase commitments. They befriend strong, Christian friends and families. That's enough IMO. If they someday reach the decision that they opt to end their respective activities then I'll encourage Young Life or Life Teen.

[Greta Lea]

We DO have a loft type room that's above our fellowship hall that has couches, tv with a gaming system, pool table and other such fun activities, but this room is used for special events.

 

The youth have their Sunday School, Sunday night and Wednesday evening classes in another building away from the entertainment stuff.

 

On Sunday evenings, our church has discipleship classes for everyone. There is one class offered that is geared toward our youth. All the discipleship classes meet one hour BEFORE regular worship. Everyone is in worship together on Sunday night.

 

We offer a meal on Wednesday nights before church. Everyone eats together in the same room. Usually, the youth gather around 2 or 3 tables, eat together and then hang at their tables visiting with each other until their class begins. I really like this set-up. The youth can all be together during this meal and visit with each other, BUT they are there among the entire church body. It's not unusual to find an elderly person sitting at the table with a few of them catching up with what they are doing or to see a few of the youth go over and sit at a table with other church members for a while. Our youth are very involved with helping at ANY children's activity (like VBS or Fall Festival), so it's not unusual on Wednesday nights to see some of the youth playing ball with the kids or talking with other adults who work with the children.

 

 

Our youth do take some fun trips to amusement parks and places like that. So far, we've not let our 14yo go on trips like that. We'd rather keep that money and use it for something fun for the ENTIRE family.

 

They also go to church camp in the summer. It is a VERY bible centered camp with LOTS of teaching, but fun stuff also. Our son has not participated with this either yet. Honestly, I just don't feel good about my boys going to something like that until they are about 16yo.

 

Greta:)

[Jeannie in NJ]

our youth group sounds like the one Greta Lea described. I also like ours because dd (high school age) does not know one teen that has continued to homeschool, everyone we know that homeschooled has put their teens into public school. So basically dd's friends are the ones in youth group. This is pretty much the only activites that she gets to do outside of the family (all of her cousins are adults, much older and married).

They are really nice kids in dd's youth group with good leaders. Dd just got back a couple of weeks ago from Creation Festival in Pa and had a great time and in a couple of weeks will be going to a camp where the mornings will be spent in Bible study and the afternoons going to the beach, etc. (this will last for a week). This is not a stay over camp, I will drop her off every morning and then pick her up in the pm.

[*anj*]

I am not entirely comfortable with youth groups either. On the other hand, I think that the leadership of the group makes all the difference in the world. One benefit of a group of church kids meeting is that just relaxing with other kids from church helps to foster relationships within the church family, which is what we want.

I want my kids to feel connected to our church, so that it's not just "the place where my parents take me" but truly their own place of worship and fellowship.

 

Our two oldest participate in a junior kind of group. It meets once a month after church, and is led by our pastor's sister. She is 60 years old, but has more energy than I do. The kids absolutely love her, but she doesn't allow them to go nuts. They have lunch, she does a Bible study with them, and then they play games. I do think that this is prep for an older group, but if it's run in the same way I'm okay with that.

 

From your description, I think that it does sound like the group at your church is a lead-in to a youth group. I think it's great that it's at the pastor's home. Maybe you or dh can offer to get involved with it. I know that you still have (very adorable) littles at home, so your time is limited, but maybe if you help out you'll be more privy to the inside track/big plan. I have a friend from my old church who was very concerned about the direction the youth group was taking and she and her dh tirelessly made their opinions known. They became involved, and while she's had to cut back in other places, she's happy to have input and influence on the group.

 

Okay, must stop rambling now!

[Just a Jen in Mississippi]

I could have written your post. I was not raised with any faith. I met my dh at age 15 and we were wild as bucks. I certainly think that has played a part in how I raise my own children. I struggle with the same issues as you and like you, even avoided the nursery with all of my kids.

 

Our current church is small and doesn't believe in having a lot of programs, so right now, I haven't had to deal with the youth groups. We actually left our last church because of the heavy influence of peer activities. I want my kids to have friends, but I do like to limit that somewhat for various reasons.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to say that you are not alone in how you feel.

[cjzimmer1]

but my husband and I have already been hashing out the pros and cons of the youth group. On the whole, there is something about it that just doesn't set well with me. Our group has monthly prayer meetings, quarterly youth rallies, and other community outreach activities (singing for nursing homes, Thanksgiving meal for homeless etc) that I think are very beneficial but then they have their "fun" activities and I disagree with just about every one of the activities they chose to do. So while I like their activities to encourage spiritual things, their secular activities leave much to be desired. But I don't know how to say to my kids you can do these activities but not those since it's kind of a either you are part of the youth group or not thing. Also we find as homeschoolers, we just naturally prefer to do things as a family and the youth group tends to really segment the youth from their parents and younger sibilings. I know it's a tough choice but I probably wouldn't send my kid to a group getting together just to play games.

 

Stephanie

[Jean in Newcastle]

My views:

 

Church is a place to learn about God and I want quality, in-depth teaching. By the time kids are teens (especially) much of that can be gotten in the main assembly. Teens do have special issues etc. to think about but much of that I think should be addressed in the home. Otherwise you might have the "youth group" addressing things like drugs when some kids need it but others are introduced to it when they aren't quite ready. You do have the problem of some teens coming from homes where they aren't taught or discipled but I think that could be handled with good adult mentors in the congregation.

 

Church is also a place to have relationships with other believers. Worshipping together is vital but I think there is a place for church picnics, hymn (or praise song) sings, etc. But I really don't see why these should be segregated by age. Why couldn't you have a number of families come together for a Wii game night together - the benefits of the teens bonding with the adults and learning from them in a fun setting is much higher in my opinion than an all-teen event. I know that in a large church you couldn't have an all-church Wii night (there just wouldn't be enough Wii's to go around let alone space) but if you did it according to small groups (but not age segregated) it might work. . .

[Mx5]

Let me give you a little history. Dh and I were not raised in homes that really led us in our faith. My parents never went to church, rarely talked about what they believed, dh parents were a little better. They sent us both to Christian school when the ps got too bad (dh and I grew up in the same neighborhood). We participated in the youth group at the church our school was associated and learned so much about our faith there. The only problem was that we both started dating and got into relationships that were not beneficial (very diplomatically put..no?).

 

Fast forward. Now we are raising our children and are intentially passing on our faith to them. I have already gotten into some conflicts with our pastor and children's program leaders when I didn't put our baby in the nursery. I would love a family integrated church, but there are none in this area. my family loves our church, so we are staying put.

 

There is no youth group right now, they are looking to start something for the 6th -9th graders during church (which I am opposed to). This summer they have started to have Wii sports parties at the pastor's house on Friday nights for these middle schoolers. They are supervised by the Pastor's daughter and her husband (whom we love and are friends with dd).

 

Does this sound like the beginning of a youth group? Would this be and activity you would avoid if your were agianst youth groups.

 

Dh and I are on the fence about how to view youth groups these days. It was good for us, but it would have been better to have been discipled by my parents (in a perfect world). We have been listening to Voddie Baucham and he has some really good points.

 

Ok, this has gotten long....what say you?

 

 

I think in the area of passing faith along to our kids, often times we think it's an all or nothing deal. If the youth group isn't exactly how we think it should be, we can have a hard time seeing it having any value at all.

 

In the 20-some years my dh was a youth pastor, we've both been shocked by what has passed as "youth group". The bar was set so low for the kids that youth group was little more than a teen club. Gross games, no standards of behavior or dress, etc. were (and still are) very common.

 

That being said, if someone I trusted had social times at his house, like your pastor is doing with Wii sports, I would jump at the opportunity for my kids to be with other kids in a safe place, to connect with other believers. I do think it's important for our kids to see that faith is important not only to other kids, but to other adults.

 

Our small church, whom my husband pastors, does not have a youth group. We send our 3 oldest kids to another church's youth group. This church isn't even in the same denomination as ours, and we're GREAT with that. Why? Because the youth pastor not only plays with the kids, but has high standards... a high view of the scriptures, a high standard for behavior and dress, yet he is very approachable and lovable, and relates well to the kids without being one of them. Our kids have found in this particular youth group that the majority of kids are homeschooled. This shocked our kids. The only reason they found out was during a game when all the kids who were homeschooled were "it" and told to be put in the middle of a circle during some game. They were happily surprised. The kids are nice and fun, and they're learning about the Lord together. We've even found that they're learning how to minister to each other now that they know there are other believers their age in the area.

 

Just as we want to find like-minded folks, so do our kids. Granted, it is extremely difficult to find a decent youth group these days... pray. That's what we did. We prayed for over 2 years before we found this youth group. We still have some disagreement on some things, but for the most part we (dh and I) feel this youth group is an asset to us in the teaching of the ways of Jesus to our kids.

[Remudamom]

Why I don't like youth groups.

1. The leader had the kids playing tag, across the town, at night, hiding in people's yards.

 

2. One of the kids was/is a confirmed dope dealer.

 

3. They were playing games "to get to know one another" that were inappropriate.

 

4. The youth leader likes to think she knows the children better than the parents, and works this into her

dealings with them.

 

5. Thinly veiled contempt for parental values.

 

And this just because of the leader/other kids. Other programs were based on bad theology, worldy values, charged with gender tension or just plain stupid.

 

The only youth program we've seen that we enjoyed at all was on Sunday nights at our church when the children studied and memorized the Westminster Catechism, with rewards and games to help. Guess what? They didn't have to spend the night to do it either.

[Anne]

My personal experience with a youth group when I was in my teens involved a priest who had beer parties for the group at his house.... Beer was not the only thing that was consumed at those parties!!! :-(

 

Our church had an active group of kids while mine were growing up. There were lots of youth activities. Some were entertainment-based, most were service or learning based. Although this group seemed to have more fun cleaning up after church potlucks than you can possibly imagine! Most of our leaders had big families, so there were always babies and littles running about. :) Families were always welcome at every event. We did periodically schedule "Outreach" nights, which were designed to allow kids to bring their unsaved/unchurched friends to. These were always much more entertainment-oriented, but always some type of message also.

 

In sum, I would look for/work towards a group that sees service and learning as the focus. Parental/family involvement should be welcomed and encouraged.

 

Anne

[Kathleen in VA]

We just don't believe in segregating the church by ages. It contributes to the "youth culture" mentality, which we see as a problem, regardless of the content of the classes. Also, our conviction is that it is just not biblical.

 

:iagree: Our church does not have a "youth group" because it simply is not biblical. Parents are responsible for the spiritual development of their children, not the church. We do have what we call "Family Fellowships" which take many different forms but which are always family affairs. We have picnics, hymn sings, more formal gatherings at church where anyone can share special music, and the like.

 

I LOVE Voddie Baucham, btw. He is right on about youth groups and parents' responsibilities. Here is a sermon of his regarding this topic:

 

http://fccm.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=72

 

You will have to scroll down and click on #8 Voddie Baucham, Closing the Generation Gap.

[Alice]

I think youth groups are probably like many other things in the church...can be good or bad depending on the leadership. Personally, I don't have a problem with small groups of people doing things together based on interest/age/etc. For example, I have been leading a Mom's Study this summer. I'm not trying to exclude other women but it has been really beneficial to the many new moms in the group to talk about issues with other mothers. I can see how it can be beneficial for teens or others to have that same experience. We do other fellowship things in the church based on gender/age/interest/etc. I can see how it is harmful if this extends to EVERY church activity or even most church activities and there are no family/churchwide activities. I can also see how youth groups could be harmful depending on the values/goals/objectives of the leaders.

 

That said, I'm pro-youth-group because it's how I became a Christian. A friend from high school invited me to her church youth group. It was an amazing group with two wonderful leaders. I had some really bad things going on at home during high school and I'm not sure I would have survivied without that group. I know I wouldn't have felt nearly as comfortable going to church with her as I did going to the youth group. And it was for me the first time in my life that I encountered a group of MY peers who were believers. Who prayed for me and cared for me and studied the Bible and talked to me about. It really set the foundation for me and my faith. And my parents later came back to the church (they had gone to church growing up but had stopped going). So, I do think youth group can be a very positive experience.

[*anj*]

 

I LOVE Voddie Baucham, btw. He is right on about youth groups and parents' responsibilities. Here is a sermon of his regarding this topic:

 

http://fccm.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=72

 

You will have to scroll down and click on #8 Voddie Baucham, Closing the Generation Gap.

 

I have to admit that I had never even heard of him prior to reading this thread. I started googling his name and found this great video clip. I definitely like what I heard. Thanks!:001_smile:

[TravelingChris]

I am for youth groups with caveats. I would try out a group first. Maybe it has something to do with the denominations we are normally in or because we choose conservative churches in a given area. The groups we have been in don't do bad stuff. They are not mainly enterntainment. There is always a strong service component. Entertainment involves things like progressive dinners, going to see a movie like Prince Caspian or that football Christian movie, playing ultimate frisbee, boating on the river, etc. I like youth groups since my kids don't get to be socially around other kids much.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I'm not against youth group per se, but, what I don't like is when it becomes unbalanced. In other words, there is a time and a place for entertainment, and, I believe, that's really important for teenagers to have wholesome and fun entertainment in a controlled setting like the youth pastor's house, chaperoned outings, or a weekend event at the church. But, if that's the basis for all they do it's not healthy.

 

The youth pastor is the undershepherd (the pastor being the head shepherd) of the church--youth and their parents. The vision of the church should be alive and well in the youth group and subsequent activities that are promoted within the youth group. It shouldn't become it's own entity.

 

I also believe that it shouldn't take the place of spiritual instruction in the home. I loved it when parents really got involved with what we were doing in the group. It was so great to get their input and kept us accountable to what we were instructing the kids. We worked with the parents. That's what should happen.

 

So, in a nutshell, if your youth group is a healthy balance of activity and instruction, if the youth pastor upholds the vision of the church and is actively communicating with the pastor and the parents, then, I would definitely participate and send my teen to their group.

[gamommy]

I relate very much to the original post. Youth group had great value to me as a teen. It was one of my primary social outlets and it did build my faith. Dh and I were both raised in homes where we were taken to church each Sunday, but honestly neither of our families had personal relationships with the Lord. Other than Sunday School and youth group I received no religious instruction and it was difficult to find a Bible in either of our homes.

 

We are raising our own children much differently. We've read and agree with "Family Driven Faith" by Voddie Bauchum. We believe that is 100% our responsiblity as parents to disciple our children. We would lean towards a family integrated church if there was one nearby.

 

We attend a very large SBC locally. It is know for its outstanding children's programming and dynamic youth group. Our oldest dd (rising 7th grader) just completed the bridge year and has transitioned into the youth. We have some real reservations about it. We are treading carefully and am not sure how this will ultimately turn out. My guess is that, at best, she'll have some limited involvement. So far we've been careful and selective about what activities she participates in.

 

I've kept busy serving in a variety of roles in the preschool ministry for the last upteen years. I will finish my roles this year and plan to get more involved with the youth ministry and I think this will help us discern what works and doesn't for our family.

 

Here's what we've allowed so far:

DD particpates in a 7th/8th grade girls Sunday morning study (after attending worship with us)

DD attends part of Wed. night. First there is a message that either dh or I attend with her (although we don't sit directly by her, we sit with a group of other parents generally). Afterwards we break away early and skip most of the social time.

DD is attending a girls only summer Bible study and attended the girls welcome brunch.

 

What we've passed on:

Most of the purely social activities, especially those that are co-ed.

The summer retreat (a 4 night overnight trip 7hrs away at Daytona Beach which included up to ages 18)

 

I think youth ministries are important for the church as a whole. In some cases they are a great influence in a child's life. But for some children they are actually a negative influence. For us the exposure of dd to immodest dress, crude language, parental disrespect, and wordly attitudes (all of which are present in our youth group in varying amounts) seem to often outweigh the benefits of her participation. Dating is aslo prevelant amongst the youth at our church and we are firmly courtship minded.

 

So, in a nutshell, very selective involvement seems to be the plan for our family. Youth activities and worship will in no way replace corporate worship and family social and devotional time.

 

Blessings,

Beth

[GSMP]

Our church also has a very large youth group. One for the senior teens and one for the junior teens.

 

We haven't really had an issue per say.....but my daughter is some what quiet and very strong in her convictions. It's not that she doesn't fit in with the senior teens as much as it is she has nothing in common with most of them.

 

She is very dedicated to the Lord. We have encouraged her to study and form her own convictions on certain issues. It doesn't mesh with the vast majority of the other kids. She cannot discuss the newest craze in secular music. She prefers not to listen to contemporary Christian music either. We don't have a tv (sort of..gets no reception) so we are not up on the latest teen idol. She still likes to participate and the activities are very chaperoned. Her closest friends have all moved away.....she is searching.

 

Our son on the other hand (junior teens) had issues with the junior teen group. He actually asked to be taken out. He couldn't give us a good reason other than name calling and horse playing. We told him that any person that kneed him in the groin he could take down. Which he did....in a non threatening manner.....:glare:

 

We told him we would take him out after his brother went with him. The issue was more serious to us. He came home that night and on the way home he was telling us about the class. The thing that alarmed us the most was the kids mocking attitude towards God. That was pretty much all we needed to hear.

 

My daughter is still participating in the senior teen group and we monitor this. Our sons are both out of the junior teens group. They no longer go to the class on Wednesday nights. They sit in big church and actually get more out of the bible study.

 

We don't allow them to participate in any of the other activities. We keep them busy enough. They have friends in the neighborhood they play with.

 

We are looking for alternative camps for them to attend next summer. They will not be going to camp with the kids at church.

 

My inclination right now would be to tell you no....or make sure you are involved. It is difficult to be an involved parent in our group....it is somewhat cliquey and they have certain people they will use. We don't fit the bill.....being home schoolers and all.

 

Not sure if this helps....but our situation is good and bad.

[Kathleen in VA]

I have to admit that I had never even heard of him prior to reading this thread. I started googling his name and found this great video clip. I definitely like what I heard. Thanks!:001_smile:

 

Anj, that was so lovely. I am a lot like Bridget Baucham in my background and it was encouraging to hear her testimony. Btw, their family is one of those featured on the new dvd The Return of the Daughters. Thanks for sharing that link.

[PineFarmMom]

Why I don't like youth groups.

1. The leader had the kids playing tag, across the town, at night, hiding in people's yards.

 

2. One of the kids was/is a confirmed dope dealer.

 

3. They were playing games "to get to know one another" that were inappropriate.

 

4. The youth leader likes to think she knows the children better than the parents, and works this into her

dealings with them.

 

5. Thinly veiled contempt for parental values.

 

And this just because of the leader/other kids. Other programs were based on bad theology, worldy values, charged with gender tension or just plain stupid..

 

This thread is so interesting to me, as I have struggled much this past year over whether to do youth group or not to do youth group. Remudamom, your comments I put in bold really stood out to me. You spoke something that I had never put into words or even knew that bothered me until I saw them. I feel that at times it draws the youth away from the parents and into this whole peer influence and dependence, then also dependence upon an adult that is not your parent, and I just do not feel comfortable about that! I believe a good youth group can be had without those issues, but I rarely see them, and I wouldn't know how to make it happen myself! I meet many parents who like the idea of their youth having a youth minister to talk to about the problems they won't talk to their parents about. That may be a wonderful thing for children who have absolutely no one to talk to, but not my child! That just feels so contrary to what God has laid on my heart that it revolts me to think of. I don't know why. I just believe He has given us a family to be tighter and closer than outside friends and adults.

 

Here is a case in point for the bad vibes I get about my kids being overly involved in situations like this: Last summer, naively, I let 12yo, going into 7th grade, dd be involved in a mission situation here in town at the church we had been involved in. It was a week of staying in the church gymnasium at night and serving in the community. It did mean a lot to her. She did have fun, and there were meaningful aspects. She came home at the end of the week, though, crying that it was over in a very unhealthy way, depressed for about 3 days, and with a peer dependence she had never had before! I believe it was because I allowed her to have too much influence by a group of kids that were older than her (she was the youngest and the ages went up to 17), were definitely more worldly than her and more mature. She seemed insecure and desperate for peer approval after that one week venture. It took much prayer to get back the child I had dropped off. She was too young and I shouldn't have done it. It taught me to be cautious about handing my kids over to just any situation that looks like God is involved. She has matured so beautifully this past year, but she was NOT ready for that situation!

 

T

[M&M]

If you like that check these out. I really like the Biblical Manhood, Womanhood, and the DaVinci Code is great too.

 

Dh is now listening to him, and is reading Family Driven Faith.

 

To me he is a breath of fresh air and funny too! And thet homeschool!

 

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=voddie+baucham&search_type=

[GSMP]

Why I don't like youth groups.

1. The leader had the kids playing tag, across the town, at night, hiding in people's yards.

 

2. One of the kids was/is a confirmed dope dealer.

 

3. They were playing games "to get to know one another" that were inappropriate.

 

4. The youth leader likes to think she knows the children better than the parents, and works this into her

dealings with them.

 

5. Thinly veiled contempt for parental values.

 

And this just because of the leader/other kids. Other programs were based on bad theology, worldy values, charged with gender tension or just plain stupid.

 

The only youth program we've seen that we enjoyed at all was on Sunday nights at our church when the children studied and memorized the Westminster Catechism, with rewards and games to help. Guess what? They didn't have to spend the night to do it either.

 

Good comment.....

 

:iagree: Our church does not have a "youth group" because it simply is not biblical. Parents are responsible for the spiritual development of their children, not the church. We do have what we call "Family Fellowships" which take many different forms but which are always family affairs. We have picnics, hymn sings, more formal gatherings at church where anyone can share special music, and the like.

 

I LOVE Voddie Baucham, btw. He is right on about youth groups and parents' responsibilities. Here is a sermon of his regarding this topic:

 

http://fccm.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=72

 

You will have to scroll down and click on #8 Voddie Baucham, Closing the Generation Gap.

 

Thanks for posting this.....I am planning on listening when my company leaves.....

[M&M]

but my husband and I have already been hashing out the pros and cons of the youth group. On the whole, there is something about it that just doesn't set well with me.

 

I don't know how to say to my kids you can do these activities but not those since it's kind of a either you are part of the youth group or not thing.

 

 

Also we find as homeschoolers, we just naturally prefer to do things as a family and the youth group tends to really segment the youth from their parents and younger sibilings. I know it's a tough choice but I probably wouldn't send my kid to a group getting together just to play games.

 

Stephanie

 

These are the things that I struggle with. The part that I bolded really sums it up for me.

 

We are the only large family in the church (there are two others, but they have grown children that do not attend our church)and we are one of two homeschooling families. The other family has only two boys that are still hsed all the others are in ps or graduated. We stand out, we do things as a family...we are just different.

 

It is always nice to come here and know that I am not as weird as other people think I am. :001_smile:

[Rebecca in VA]

When I was in high school, I participated in Young Life, and it was wonderful. We did Bible study once a week in people's homes, which gave us a chance to socialize and have fun in a decent, chaperoned way. We went to Young Life camp in Colorado one summer. We sometimes went on day trips on weekends. I was so thankful to have this group of friends to hang out with and learn about Christ. "Family discipleship" was not an option at my house. If caring adults had not taken the time to put this group together and keep it going, I would probably have gone down a much darker path in my high school years.

 

I don't agree that youth groups are unscriptural. I really don't see where the Bible speaks about youth groups at all. There are many instances where young Bible characters "hung out" with friends other than family members, and was not is not condemned at all in the Bible -- for example, David and Jonathan, Jephthah's daughter who spent time with friends before she was to be sacrificed, teenaged Jesus whose parents assumed he was with friends as they travelled home from Jerusalem, etc. Nowhere does the Bible say that all socializing and discipling should be done within the family. In fact, many Bible families were so dysfunctional that it would have been far better for the various members to spend more time apart.

 

I would HAPPILY put my children in a godly youth group such as Bright Lights or Young Life if such a group were available. I WANT them to develop Christian friendships -- which might last a lifetime -- with other young people who love the Lord. However, I would stay involved closely with the group and make sure the focus STAYED on the Lord.

[VaKim]

Why I don't like youth groups.

1. The leader had the kids playing tag, across the town, at night, hiding in people's yards.

 

2. One of the kids was/is a confirmed dope dealer.

 

3. They were playing games "to get to know one another" that were inappropriate.

 

4. The youth leader likes to think she knows the children better than the parents, and works this into her

dealings with them.

 

5. Thinly veiled contempt for parental values.

 

And this just because of the leader/other kids. Other programs were based on bad theology, worldy values, charged with gender tension or just plain stupid.

 

The only youth program we've seen that we enjoyed at all was on Sunday nights at our church when the children studied and memorized the Westminster Catechism, with rewards and games to help. Guess what? They didn't have to spend the night to do it either.

 

Great points! I tried to just rep you, but the boards are so messed up today, that wouldn't even anything come up when I click on the scales.

[*anj*]

These are the things that I struggle with. The part that I bolded really sums it up for me.

 

We are the only large family in the church (there are two others, but they have grown children that do not attend our church)and we are one of two homeschooling families. The other family has only two boys that are still hsed all the others are in ps or graduated. We stand out, we do things as a family...we are just different.

 

It is always nice to come here and know that I am not as weird as other people think I am. :001_smile:

 

You know, our church isn't so far away from you. You really should come visit sometime. We have families just like yours at our church. You wouldn't stand out at all! ;)

 

I'm pm'ing you!:auto:

[M&M]

I'm not against youth group per se, but, what I don't like is when it becomes unbalanced. In other words, there is a time and a place for entertainment, and, I believe, that's really important for teenagers to have wholesome and fun entertainment in a controlled setting like the youth pastor's house, chaperoned outings, or a weekend event at the church. But, if that's the basis for all they do it's not healthy.

 

The youth pastor is the undershepherd (the pastor being the head shepherd) of the church--youth and their parents. The vision of the church should be alive and well in the youth group and subsequent activities that are promoted within the youth group. It shouldn't become it's own entity.

 

I also believe that it shouldn't take the place of spiritual instruction in the home. I loved it when parents really got involved with what we were doing in the group. It was so great to get their input and kept us accountable to what we were instructing the kids. We worked with the parents. That's what should happen.

 

So, in a nutshell, if your youth group is a healthy balance of activity and instruction, if the youth pastor upholds the vision of the church and is actively communicating with the pastor and the parents, then, I would definitely participate and send my teen to their group.

 

 

Since there is no established group except ...we are in a very young church (somewhat Purpose Driven in style) it is hard to know what they will do. Our pastor used to be a youth pastor for many years, so this may become another issue where I am not in agreement with his views.

[Danestress]

And like my family or origin, I don't agree with everything that happens, and when push comes to shove, I am the Mom. I don't have to agree with it all up front. I feel free to sort of figure things out as we go along and use a healthy dose of grace and love mixed with motherly stubborness.

 

So I would feel perfectly free to say "no, we won't have our kids leave church for separate kid's activities," but "sure, Friday night Wii sounds okay," and then, "No way are we doing the lock-in" but, "movie night at the fellowship hall is good, can I supervise it?"

 

In other words, I don't feel that being part of "youth group" means that I have to allow participation in all aspects of it, and it wouldn't bother me at all that the Pastor and I didn't see eye to eye on all parts of this. In families, people sometimes disagree, but my model for church authority does not really take the parenting decisions out of the hands of the parents and give it to the youth minister or senior pastor. I couldn't really be in a church that did that.

 

So our church has a youth group and I expect we will participate in some but not all parts of it. This year we are going to start keeping our children in church with us. I've discussed this with the youth minister and I know he thinks that my boys will get a lot of the middle school group that separates out during the sermon. But we aren't going to do that. I'm not sure how much he will mind, but I believe he will understand.

[M&M]

My views:

 

Church is a place to learn about God and I want quality, in-depth teaching. By the time kids are teens (especially) much of that can be gotten in the main assembly. Teens do have special issues etc. to think about but much of that I think should be addressed in the home. Otherwise you might have the "youth group" addressing things like drugs when some kids need it but others are introduced to it when they aren't quite ready. You do have the problem of some teens coming from homes where they aren't taught or discipled but I think that could be handled with good adult mentors in the congregation.

 

Church is also a place to have relationships with other believers. Worshipping together is vital but I think there is a place for church picnics, hymn (or praise song) sings, etc. But I really don't see why these should be segregated by age. Why couldn't you have a number of families come together for a Wii game night together - the benefits of the teens bonding with the adults and learning from them in a fun setting is much higher in my opinion than an all-teen event. I know that in a large church you couldn't have an all-church Wii night (there just wouldn't be enough Wii's to go around let alone space) but if you did it according to small groups (but not age segregated) it might work. . .

 

These are great ideas. I just keep coming to the same place ...families should worship and function as a unit in the church. My pastor does not agree with this at all. We live in an area NY/NJ Metro where people are so used to dropping off their children for someone else to deal with that they don't have a clue how to include children. We hosted the only small group where children were allowed to be in the same house (not in the group mind you just in the same home) as the small group. Small groups were supposed to have a separate place to drop off kids for babysitting. My husband refused this idea and refinished part of our basement so there was a place for kids to play. We are forging new roads in this church and it is not easy.

 

Thanks for the encouragement!

[angela in ohio]

It would concern me that the first thing they thought of was a Wii party, not community service or a Bible study. That would make me question the path the youth group would take in the future.

 

We go back and forth. I personally agree with Jean.

[Jean in Newcastle]

BTW, this is a really good thread! I will definitely have my dh read it. We are considering the possibility of if/when God closes the door to our current ministry (he has been preaching for 3 years interim at a slowly shrinking church) of starting a new church. These are some of the things (how to balance the needs of teens, parents, children, elderly, singles etc.) that we've been discussing.

[Kathleen in VA]

To clarify why I think youth groups are unbiblical:

 

First you must ask what is the purpose of a youth group? Why does a church think forming one is necessary? What are they hoping to accomplish? I went to several churches growing up where there was a youth group. My understanding of the purpose for such an organization, generally speaking, is to provide Christian education and Christian fellowship for young people ages 12-20 (or thereabouts). In the Hebrew community once a child turns 13 he is no longer considered a child, but an adult. He is expected to take his place in the adult community. Our society has created an unusual species called the adolescent. Perhaps this is why it is so difficult for us to imagine that there might be something odd about that thing we call a "youth group."

 

The Bible is very clear about who should educate children. It speaks mainly to the fathers and then to parents corporately. There are many verses speaking to parents about raising their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; there are no verses speaking to youth group leaders. I am speaking here about organized youth groups with youth group leaders. I am not speaking about organizing activities through the families in a church for the sake of providing wholesome fellowship for our children and ourselves for that matter. One is a system whereby parents release their children to the authority and supervision of another supposed church leader. The other is a means of providing meaningful activities in a group setting supervised and under the authority of the heads of each household.

 

The Bible is very clear about the function of a church and of what the leadership should consist. Again, there is nothing in the Bible about youth group leaders.

 

Yes, I know, there is nothing in the Bible about computers and airplanes either. Just because something is *not* mentioned in the Bible does not make it a neutral subject, however. The Bible *does* mention how we are to educate our children and where we are to go for fellowship. The Bible *does* mention what the structure of leadership in a church should be and the qualifications for that leadership.

 

I think the church has stepped in to take over this responsibility because so many parents have abdicated it. I like what Dr. Voddie Baucham says to this line of thinking, (roughly quoted, mind you) "If your congregation stopped tithing, would you step in and do that for them?" This is taken from a sermon he delivered at a pastor's conference, a link for which I have already provided in this thread.

 

I am not trying to be difficult here, but I think it is so like humans to just go with the flow and not question things - especially if there are some aspects of the thing we ought to question that might be to our liking.

 

It has been brought up that youth groups are worthwhile because they have been instrumental in bringing people to Christ. That is pragmatic thinking. Just because something "worked" in one case (or thousands for that matter) does not make it biblical or worthwhile. It is by God's grace and His grace alone that anyone is saved and He does not need youth groups to bestow that grace.

 

If you are a Christian, I challenge you to use God's word and His word alone as your guide. Study it out. What does God say about who should be the spiritual leaders of their children? What does God say about the structure of leadership in the church? What does God say about Christian fellowship?

 

God gave us His word as our guide for righteous living. We need to put our feelings and fond memories aside and make sure we are doing His will and not our own.

 

Go back and find the link to Voddie Baucham's sermon. He says it so much better than I can. He has studied it out more and is much more articulate that I am. Please know that I am not trying to offend anyone here or make anyone feel foolish. I never saw anything wrong with youth groups until someone pointed out to me that they are not biblical. I had never considered whether they were or weren't. I have been blessed to be a member of a church for 22 years which has never had a youth group. We have plenty of fellowship as families throughout the year. We get together as large groups and sometimes just as two or three families at a time.

 

Here are some pictures from a recent gathering at our pastor's house when his dil was visiting from Kentucky. They just opened up the house one Fri. eve. and enjoyed a wonderful evening of singing hymns and general all-around fun. These kind of events happen fairly regularly within our congregation.

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/sethgifford/FridayNightGetTogether

 

Again, I find myself rambling. My only purpose is to draw our focus to God's word and not our own experiences.

[Erica in PA]

[. We're also committed to not following the entertainment-based model that's been prevalent for the past couple of decades in youth ministry.>>

 

Could you share with us what your youth group is like? It would be refreshing to find something like that around here.

 

Ginger

 

Well, we're really just getting started, so I'm sorry to say that I don't have too much to share, yet. The youth group only really started getting going officially in the last month or so. What my dh and his co-leader have discussed with our church leadership is that this group will be God-centered, and more focused in content than other groups we've known of. We don't want crazy, wild antics going on that have nothing to do with the Bible or the Lord. So mostly our youth group consists of Bible studies, and small group discussion. We are still working on fleshing out the program a bit more, but that's where we're focused right now.

 

While we do plan fun activities for the kids to get to know one another and the leaders better, our emphasis is on helping to disciple them, offer support and guidance to parents, and helping the kids to become an integral part of our church body. We want to help them transition into adulthood, so that serving God and participating in the local church will be natural for them, and not a shock after 7 years of the self-centered craziness that characterize some youth groups.

 

There is a book called Rethink: Is Student Ministry Working, by Steve Wright, that sums up some of these issues. Dh said it's been very helpful in challenging his ideas of what a youth group should be all about.

 

Sorry I don't have more to share right now! Give us another year, and hopefully I'll have more to share then. :)

 

Erica

[Erica in PA]

:iagree: Our church does not have a "youth group" because it simply is not biblical. Parents are responsible for the spiritual development of their children, not the church. We do have what we call "Family Fellowships" which take many different forms but which are always family affairs. We have picnics, hymn sings, more formal gatherings at church where anyone can share special music, and the like.

 

I LOVE Voddie Baucham, btw. He is right on about youth groups and parents' responsibilities. Here is a sermon of his regarding this topic:

 

http://fccm.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=72

 

You will have to scroll down and click on #8 Voddie Baucham, Closing the Generation Gap.

 

Hmmm, when you say that having a youth group "is not biblical," do you mean that it is not *mentioned* in the Bible, or that the concept is contrary to what is taught in the Bible? I have to respectfully disagree, if it's the latter. The Bible does teach that parents are responsible for their spiritual development-- it does not teach that it is wrong for anyone else to offer input as well. Dh and I are responsible for our dc's spiritual development, absolutely; the teaching they receive from others at church (whether it's in Sunday School, the morning service, or at youth group), doesn't negate that. If we expect others to do it all for us, or abdicate our ultimate responsibility for it, that would be contrary to Scripture.

 

Erica

[Desert Rat]

I haven't read all of the other posts so maybe this is covered ground already. But, are you against youth groups when they are DURING church services? Or are you against them because you don't feel they are supervised adequately?

 

I was raised in a Methodist church. My dad became a youth pastor after many years in youth ministry when I was in college. He just retired last year. I had an awesome, wonderful, nurturing experience. I still have lasting friends from 20 years ago from MYF (methodist youth fellowship). It was well organized and incredibly supervised. We planned our meetings for 6pm on Sundays. There were no meetings in the summer because of vacations but we did get together for fun. 3 meetings a month were educational/spiritual in nature. The fourth was a fun night.

 

That was 20 years ago though. My dad has seen a decline in parent participation and guidance. The kids were harder to handle and he was getting tired, hence, retirement. I think in the right church with the right group of parents and leaders, youth groups are an awesome experience to learn and grow in a healthy and safe environment. My secular friends often joined us and found the experiences rewarding.

 

All that said, I'm not a Christian nor am I a lost soul searching for faith. I'm truly happy with the path I'm on and STILL think that youth group is a great experience. Had my dad continued with his journey as youth pastor my children would have gone with him.

 

HTH

[Kathleen in VA]

Hmmm, when you say that having a youth group "is not biblical," do you mean that it is not *mentioned* in the Bible, or that the concept is contrary to what is taught in the Bible? I have to respectfully disagree, if it's the latter. The Bible does teach that parents are responsible for their spiritual development-- it does not teach that it is wrong for anyone else to offer input as well. Dh and I are responsible for our dc's spiritual development, absolutely; the teaching they receive from others at church (whether it's in Sunday School, the morning service, or at youth group), doesn't negate that. If we expect others to do it all for us, or abdicate our ultimate responsibility for it, that would be contrary to Scripture.

 

Erica

 

I think it is contrary to what is taught in the Bible. Again, I am not talking about other people having a positive spiritual influence in a young person's life. I am addressing the official formal organization called a youth group with an official Youth Pastor as its head. You are right that our children need to hear about Christ from others (By the mouths of two or more witnesses, etc.), but the responsibility - and that's my main point - the responsibility lies with the parents. I think you and I agree for the most part on this.

 

I think that an official youth group is very much like public schools in that regard. It is just too easy to drop the kids at the door and think that Pastor Fun-to-be-around is going to bring our children to Christ. I also think it is wrong on the church's part to undermine the parents by taking over that responsibility. As some others have mentioned and as I have personally witnessed there are many youth pastors who put down parental authority and have a similar attitude as many ps teachers have - that the job of bringing children to spiritual maturity is too hard for parents and must be done by a "professional."

 

Obviously, I cannot make a blanket statement about all youth groups as to the strength of their leadership or their choice of how to run the operation. I just believe that there is no call or need for such an organization and I think our society has invented this need by inventing adolescence in the first place. It is a slippery slope that could easily be avoided.

 

Did you listen to the audio sermon by Dr. Baucham? I feel that he expresses this so much better than I ever could.

[VaKim]

 

I think that an official youth group is very much like public schools in that regard. It is just too easy to drop the kids at the door and think that Pastor Fun-to-be-around is going to bring our children to Christ. I also think it is wrong on the church's part to undermine the parents by taking over that responsibility. As some others have mentioned and as I have personally witnessed there are many youth pastors who put down parental authority and have a similar attitude as many ps teachers have - that the job of bringing children to spiritual maturity is too hard for parents and must be done by a "professional."

 

Obviously, I cannot make a blanket statement about all youth groups as to the strength of their leadership or their choice of how to run the operation. I just believe that there is no call or need for such an organization and I think our society has invented this need by inventing adolescence in the first place. It is a slippery slope that could easily be avoided.

 

:iagree: Exactly!!

[Kathleen in VA]

I haven't read all of the other posts so maybe this is covered ground already. But, are you against youth groups when they are DURING church services? Or are you against them because you don't feel they are supervised adequately?

 

I was raised in a Methodist church. My dad became a youth pastor after many years in youth ministry when I was in college. He just retired last year. I had an awesome, wonderful, nurturing experience. I still have lasting friends from 20 years ago from MYF (methodist youth fellowship). It was well organized and incredibly supervised. We planned our meetings for 6pm on Sundays. There were no meetings in the summer because of vacations but we did get together for fun. 3 meetings a month were educational/spiritual in nature. The fourth was a fun night.

 

That was 20 years ago though. My dad has seen a decline in parent participation and guidance. The kids were harder to handle and he was getting tired, hence, retirement. I think in the right church with the right group of parents and leaders, youth groups are an awesome experience to learn and grow in a healthy and safe environment. My secular friends often joined us and found the experiences rewarding.

 

All that said, I'm not a Christian nor am I a lost soul searching for faith. I'm truly happy with the path I'm on and STILL think that youth group is a great experience. Had my dad continued with his journey as youth pastor my children would have gone with him.

 

HTH

 

I am against them because I do not see any place in scripture that mentions youth pastors. I see bishops, elders, overseers - these are all related to the congregation as a whole. Again, I think the basic problem here is the fact that we think this age group, roughly 12-20, is some kind of special, set apart time in life different from childhood and adulthood. The Bible makes no such distinction. People are either children or adults. Yes, there is mention of youth but not in the sense that we use it. It is referring to young adults.

 

I am very happy, delighted really, that your father had such a positive impact on so many lives - I certainly wouldn't want to discount that. I think, though, that just as God works through tragedy and other not-so-enjoyable life experiences, He can work through men's misunderstandings of the Bible as well. Like I said before, just because it works does not mean it is God's best. God is very gracious and patient with us as we try to do what we believe is His will even if we don't get it quite right. His mercy endures forever. I am just saying the whole notion of youth pastors is not in the Bible.

 

The activities you mention are honorable and wholesome - I just don't think it is the church's responsibility to provide them in an official capacity. I don't see that in the Bible anywhere - the Bible never mentions having a special pastor just for folks aged 12-20. I believe these same types of activities can and should be provided by individual families as folks are led by the Holy Spirit. Again, it is the parent's responsibility to provide for the spiritual growth of children - within the context of the church and the family - but ultimately the job is the parents.

 

Please take time to listen to Dr. Baucham's sermon as he is much more articulate about this subject than I am.

 

I am just a person - quite a fallible one at that. I urge you to go to God's word and study it out for yourself.

[Erica in PA]

I think it is contrary to what is taught in the Bible. Again, I am not talking about other people having a positive spiritual influence in a young person's life. I am addressing the official formal organization called a youth group with an official Youth Pastor as its head. You are right that our children need to hear about Christ from others (By the mouths of two or more witnesses, etc.), but the responsibility - and that's my main point - the responsibility lies with the parents. I think you and I agree for the most part on this.

 

I think that an official youth group is very much like public schools in that regard. It is just too easy to drop the kids at the door and think that Pastor Fun-to-be-around is going to bring our children to Christ. I also think it is wrong on the church's part to undermine the parents by taking over that responsibility. As some others have mentioned and as I have personally witnessed there are many youth pastors who put down parental authority and have a similar attitude as many ps teachers have - that the job of bringing children to spiritual maturity is too hard for parents and must be done by a "professional."

 

Obviously, I cannot make a blanket statement about all youth groups as to the strength of their leadership or their choice of how to run the operation. I just believe that there is no call or need for such an organization and I think our society has invented this need by inventing adolescence in the first place. It is a slippery slope that could easily be avoided.

 

Did you listen to the audio sermon by Dr. Baucham? I feel that he expresses this so much better than I ever could.

 

Yeah, we disagree about it being not biblical, then. If the biblical principle in question is that parents are in charge, I don't agree that the concept of a youth group violates that principle. It's not in place of a parent's leadership. It's additional input.

 

As for the rest of your post, I agree with you! I just think calling it contrary to Scripture is taking it too far, imo.

 

Erica

[Testimony]

I have a girlfriend who grappled (I mean grappled) with this issue. Her son was in youth group and ended up getting into Goth and no longer walking with the Lord. I want to emphasize that it was that child not ever child will end up like that. It was this child not everyone will end up like this. The youth group that he was apart of underscored youth games in order to reach the lost, which OK to a degree. She said that she did not like the mixing of the sexes because they would have games like touch football in the evening. Guess where could be touched? My girlfriend got so frustrated that she ended up pulling him out of youth group. She said that she questioned a youth group where everyone ends up with a girlfriend or boyfriend. Remember, her son was weak. He was more of a follower. Yes, she homeschooled him, but her situation was different.

 

My church's youth group which stopped after the youth pastor gave it up, they would go out on weekends and package foods for the homeless at homeless shelters. They did caroling grams for Christmas. They went to people's houses and sang Christmas songs. They did fund raisers for missions. I liked that.

 

I struggle with youth groups that are only focused on youth games. I understand reaching the lost, but an emphasis on doing ministry and touching the needy teaches the lost and church children about Jesus.

 

The above is just my opinion and experience. I know everyone has a different opinion and experience. Please understand that I am only expressing what I know.

 

Youth groups, lately, I am noticing can be just as controversial as music ministry in the church.

 

Blessings to you, Monique.

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[M&M]

Yes, I seem to embrace the controversial these days. I look at this neo classical education we are giving our children and I feel like there is a disconnect when we are at church. Thanks.

[M&M]

I haven't read all of the other posts so maybe this is covered ground already. But, are you against youth groups when they are DURING church services? Or are you against them because you don't feel they are supervised adequately?

 

I was raised in a Methodist church. My dad became a youth pastor after many years in youth ministry when I was in college. He just retired last year. I had an awesome, wonderful, nurturing experience. I still have lasting friends from 20 years ago from MYF (methodist youth fellowship). It was well organized and incredibly supervised. We planned our meetings for 6pm on Sundays. There were no meetings in the summer because of vacations but we did get together for fun. 3 meetings a month were educational/spiritual in nature. The fourth was a fun night.

 

That was 20 years ago though. My dad has seen a decline in parent participation and guidance. The kids were harder to handle and he was getting tired, hence, retirement. I think in the right church with the right group of parents and leaders, youth groups are an awesome experience to learn and grow in a healthy and safe environment. My secular friends often joined us and found the experiences rewarding.

 

All that said, I'm not a Christian nor am I a lost soul searching for faith. I'm truly happy with the path I'm on and STILL think that youth group is a great experience. Had my dad continued with his journey as youth pastor my children would have gone with him.

 

HTH

 

 

Yes I am against youth groups during church. I don't see why a 6th grader cannot sit in a church service ( our service is contemporary). I don't see why we have to segregate our families on Sundays and develop programs for every age group.

 

I think that churches should help fathers to be leaders in their families and that ministry should flow out of family participation. I think that discipleship should flow from parent to child and that relationship should be developed and encouraged by the church. I don't think that teenage rebellion should be accepted as normal.

 

I know that many of the youth in our high school group put our youth pastor on a pedestal. We formed a very close friendship with him that lasts until today, but I wish I had learn to respect my father as much as I did this man when I was young.

 

Youth group is fun, but I want our church to help us pass on our faith to our children, not just entertain them.

 

I hope this makes sence, 5:30 chaos is beginning early here today!

[Laurie4b]

I don't think it's an either/or situation, but a both/and situation. Parents are commanded to teach their children the commandments, to bring their children up in the nurture and training of the Lord, not to exasperate their children, etc. They are not commnded not to let anyone else influence their children. The church was commanded to "make disciples." We are the primary influence in our children's lives, but I am very grateful for the influence of other believers. Our teenagers both attend the worship service with us and go to youth group activities.

 

I go to a women's Bible study and small group. I don't consider that unbiblical either.

[Adrianne]

We just don't believe in segregating the church by ages. It contributes to the "youth culture" mentality, which we see as a problem, regardless of the content of the classes. Also, our conviction is that it is just not biblical.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

As homeschooling parents we have decided it is our responsibility to educate our children not the state's job. As Christian parents it is our job to disciple our children not the church's. The bible says nothing of age segregated peer groups but it does mention many times that it is a parent's job, particularly the father's job to raise his children in the Lord's way.

 

Voddie Baucham is an excellent speaker on this subject.