We don't like Singapore PM

[Sahamamama]

For 1st grade, we used Horizons Math 1, Math Mammoth Blue Series, Kumon, and Hands-On Standards materials. We're in SPM 2A now.

 

We've been trying to get adjusted to the new math format with SPM this year. We really, really hate it. My daughter says she prefers Math Mammoth and "even Horizons was better than this." And she wonders why Singapore "makes simple things so unnecessarily complicated?" :001_huh: I have to admit, even after all the great things I've heard about Singapore, I just don't see it working for us. The HIG is too much verbiage and too much jumping around from book to book. :tongue_smilie:

 

If you make Singapore work for you, what does your lesson time look like? Do we just need to give it more time? We've been at it for three weeks, so perhaps that's not enough time to get used to the format change. :confused:

[SunnyDays]

This isn't what you asked for, but as a point of view... we also tried to make Singapore work and couldn't. We just didn't "get" it, and like your DD, thought it made things more complicated than it needed to be.

 

We're not in love with MM, but it's much easier for us to use. Sorry. :)

[swainsonshawk]

The HIG for the US edition is awful, I agree. It's wordy and miserable to follow on the fly. I always felt like I needed to read it in advance, take notes or highlight or something. Like I have time for that.

 

I have used Singapore for 10 years now and I have never used the "optional" books--more practice, intensive practice, challenging word problems. I only used the text book and the work book. We open the text book. I go over the assignment from the text book and we do some of the examples together. I assign the workbook and my child does the exercise. I never skip exercises, although I sometimes skip reviews in the textbook if I feel that my child is "getting it." I love Singapore Math for its teaching style, for the lack of crazy amounts of repetition, and for the thinking it gets my kids to do.

 

I can understand why some people don't like it, though. I have a math phobic friend who is terrified of it. I left and came back to it several times and I still do it when the going gets tough in Singapore. But we come back to it after the break and keep learning things the singapore way!

[JessReplanted]

We struggled with SM for over a year. I finally dumped it and got CLE math (and we love it!).

[sagira]

Just looking at the samples makes me see it's not for us.

 

- too colorful

- too complicated

- too many extra steps

- too many books

[lorisuewho]

For 1st grade, we used Horizons Math 1, Math Mammoth Blue Series, Kumon, and Hands-On Standards materials. We're in SPM 2A now.

 

 

 

Were the programs you used last year not working for you or were you just trying to use something different?

 

I bought SM for first and didn't like it and wound up using RightStart and CLE (I loved both). Then I bought SM again for this year and sent it back before the school year even started. We use a combination of things for math this year (CLE and MEP) and I love both of them.

 

If SM isn't what you were looking for, I would go back to what was working and stick with it.

[Laura Corin]

I didn't use the HIG. We would do the text book together, I would assign the relevant exercises, and once or twice a week throw in some work from the Challenging Word Problems. I was planning on starting to use the HIG when we got to about level 5, but we moved on around then.

 

Laura

[alisoncooks]

ETA: my apologies is 2nd grade SM is different than first...but just in case they are similar....

 

We're in SM 1A and we really enjoy it. We use the HIG, textbook & workbook.

Here's how I structure a lesson:

 

1. Introduce the concept - I do this with manipulatives + ideas in the HIG. This is a big part of our lesson and the majority of my teaching-time.

 

2. Guided Practice - this is how I use the textbook. I ask questions about the picture and give DD a chance to demonstrate that she understands how to transfer the hands-on activities we did to paper/pictures

 

3. Independent Practice - we use the student workbook pages that go with the lesson (though DD is 6, so I sit by her and help her focus or read directions)

 

4. Review - often a game (they call it "enhancement") from the HIG, though we only do this if we have extra time.

 

Again, I'm not familiar with 2A, so maybe the above isn't applicable.

[Dinsfamily]

I've been using SM from the beginning with both of my dc. With my oldest who is very mathy, I let him do the textbook on his own while I'm there and we discuss anything he doesn't understand. I only use the HIG when he needs help on something and my explanation doesn't seem to help. That doesn't happen very often with him. Then, he tackles the workbook himself and I correct it right away. After that he does a column of mental math. Once he is finished with both the A and B workbooks, we do CWP. I tried to use IP with him this year, but he hated the format and asked to go back to Horizons as his supplemental math. I'm dropping IP for him this year since we already do CWP and PCM plus he doesn't need the practice.

 

With ds6 who needs more direct instruction, I go over the lesson with him and we do the textbook together. He is a manipulatives kid, so the CRods come out several times a week. I still don't use the HIG unless it is a big concept...in fact, I don't even own them for 1A and 1B. He does the workbook independently and also does 2 pages of the IP. He finished 1A about a month ago, but we're waiting until he finishes IP1A to move onto 1B. He does need the practice and the IP has been perfect for him. Once he finishes 1B, we'll do CWP1. I'll add in the mental math worksheets when we get to 2A.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Dinsfamily
Clarification

[JABarney]

I can see where jumping in to the program when you have not used it from the beginning could get quite frustrating! Singapore Primary Math is a program that builds upon itself with its mathematical thinking and I know my dc would have likely struggled had we not started from the beginning-because I would have struggled. Have you considered backing up at all? I think you were wanting more pick up and go though, so perhaps it is not the program for you. What are your math goals for your dc? Do you want basic competency? Excellence? I know getting clear about my goals has helped me tremendously with curriculum decisions.

 

For us, I truly believe it is a phenomenal program. Is it easy to teach? Not for me; who learned math in a completely different way. But now well into 4A, I wish I had been taught in this way as a child. Only during the last few years is math starting to make sense to me in ways it never had before! So many more doors would have been opened for me later in life had I been stronger in math. (not that there is anything wrong with a career in social services!) Yes, I have to use the teachers manual, and yes, I have to spend time truly understanding the material myself before I teach it. So is it a pick up and go subject? Nope. But now that my dc have a strong foundation - and yes we use the intensive practice books as well as CWP - and do the mental math exercises religiously - maths is actually getting easier! (we also go year round in math to stay on top of it; I do the IP books over the summer - so we work very hard at it all)

I would strongly discourage people from just using parts and pieces of the program or expecting the program to be a great program when they do not have the desire or commitment to use it as it is meant to be used. You only end up with unhappy parents/dc and bad reviews of a program that when used correctly, is otherwise excellent with dc scoring very well on advanced math tests.

Please let me be clear that I do not believe there is anything wrong with wanting a 'pick up and go' program, or simply having other priorities than maths. But let's not blame a math program for not working for our dc when really it is us, the teachers, who may not want to put in the time and effort it takes to do it correctly.

Good luck; lots of decisions to be made along this wonderful journey!

[gandpsmommy]

We used Singapore along with Miquon with dd when she was in K5 and first grade, but it just never really worked for us. Then I bought Righstart Math and it was wonderful for us. I would highly recommend it.

[Kathryn]

I can see where jumping in to the program when you have not used it from the beginning could get quite frustrating! Singapore Primary Math is a program that builds upon itself with its mathematical thinking and I know my dc would have likely struggled had we not started from the beginning-because I would have struggled. Have you considered backing up at all? I think you were wanting more pick up and go though, so perhaps it is not the program for you. What are your math goals for your dc? Do you want basic competency? Excellence? I know getting clear about my goals has helped me tremendously with curriculum decisions.

 

For us, I truly believe it is a phenomenal program. Is it easy to teach? Not for me; who learned math in a completely different way. But now well into 4A, I wish I had been taught in this way as a child. Only during the last few years is math starting to make sense to me in ways it never had before! So many more doors would have been opened for me later in life had I been stronger in math. (not that there is anything wrong with a career in social services!) Yes, I have to use the teachers manual, and yes, I have to spend time truly understanding the material myself before I teach it. So is it a pick up and go subject? Nope. But now that my dc have a strong foundation - and yes we use the intensive practice books as well as CWP - and do the mental math exercises religiously - maths is actually getting easier! (we also go year round in math to stay on top of it; I do the IP books over the summer - so we work very hard at it all)

I would strongly discourage people from just using parts and pieces of the program or expecting the program to be a great program when they do not have the desire or commitment to use it as it is meant to be used. You only end up with unhappy parents/dc and bad reviews of a program that when used correctly, is otherwise excellent with dc scoring very well on advanced math tests.

Please let me be clear that I do not believe there is anything wrong with wanting a 'pick up and go' program, or simply having other priorities than maths. But let's not blame a math program for not working for our dc when really it is us, the teachers, who may not want to put in the time and effort it takes to do it correctly.

Good luck; lots of decisions to be made along this wonderful journey!

 

:iagree: it's not for everyone, but it's working really well for us. We did MUs for the past two years, so we backed up and did a quick run-through of Singapore 1A and 1B. If neither of you like it, I wouldn't hesitate to move on though.

[Sahamamama]

This isn't what you asked for, but as a point of view... we also tried to make Singapore work and couldn't. We just didn't "get" it, and like your DD, thought it made things more complicated than it needed to be.

 

We're not in love with MM, but it's much easier for us to use. Sorry. :)

Actually, this IS helpful. It's so nice to know we're not the only people in the universe who aren't feeling the SPM love, KWIM? :D

[justLisa]

I use the standards. I only use the HIG if I have difficulty explaining something. We do some of the TB on the board, some out loud or together on paper. Whatever the vibe I get from the kid that day I go with. Then the WB is done on their own.

 

The textbook is a good visual.

 

But if you don't like it and like MM it is not the end of the world.

 

Sometimes a certain topic is not working out, and I will pull MM sheets and do a unit from there. I stick to the scope and sequence of SM, and search for whatever the proper grade level match is with MM if needed. If that makes sense.

[Soror]

I've never used SM fwiw, but I think I'd give it a few more weeks maybe but I wouldn't feel guilty about going back to something that worked well for everyone. SM is not some magical program that everyone must use or something. It seems lots of people find success in various ways.

[NittanyJen]

We don't feel there is any jumping around from book to book. You use one, then the other, then you're done.

 

I introduce the topic with some kind of manipulative or demonstration until he gets the idea.

 

We open the textbook to the relevant section, and we work through the section, usually working the exercises orally, or if he needs to (rarely) then on a white board.

 

Finally, to check his understanding, he does the relevant workbook exercises (noted in the little flags in the textbook) after we have finished the textbook.

 

We don't do the CWP.

 

At the end of a chapter, he'll do the IP topic on his own, a "day off" (or two, if the topic is exceptionally long) from the text/workbook pattern. Some people either don't use the IP book, or use it a semester or even a year behind, because it is more challenging.

 

For us, because even the US Edition has an unbelievable amount of review built in throughout the book and program, we don't even bother to do every problem.

 

But . . . do exercises, open textbook, do it. Open workbook do it, done math.

 

To me, "juggling" implies a lot more complication than that!

[MrsBanjoClown]

I go through the HIG and figure out what I want to do with my ds. For example, tomorrow we will be starting subtraction with renaming. I don't have the place-value discs, so I will just discuss with him the procedure for renaming. Then I will write the practice problems from the HIG down and we will work through them together. I will assign the problems from the textbook (there are no workbook problems for this lesson) and then when he is finished I will go over them. Depending on how much time that takes, I may start him on the mental math for this lesson or I may wait and do that the next day instead of another lesson.

[boscopup]

For my child using 5A, I have him open his textbook while I open the HIG. I teach the lesson from the HIG, going over some of the textbook problems orally or at the white board. Once it's clear that he understands the material, I have him do the exercise in the workbook on his own. Later in the day, I have him do either a page of the challenge section of CWP or a chapter of LoF Fractions.

 

For my child in 1A, I open textbook and HIG, teach lesson from HIG, discussing textbook problems orally. If I need to use manipulatives, it's usually C-rods. Then we do the workbook exercise. He's 5, so it's not independent, but he does the work himself. He is not currently doing IP or CWP. We also do LoF elementary series later in the day (finished Apples and will start Butterflies when we get done with the fall break we're on right now).

 

I used to be afraid of the juggling books of Singapore, but once I started using it, I realized I wasn't really juggling books. We use a TM and textbook at the same time, then the student pulls out his workbook. It's 3 books. I consider CWP and IP to be optional supplements, just like LoF is for us. They're not used during regular math time, and we definitely don't do all the problems in them.

 

Oh, and when we get to a Practice section in the textbook (4A and up have them... Not sure what level they start), we do those on separate notebook paper - practicing writing from a textbook. For reviews, we do either the textbook or the workbook review, and sometimes I skip them if we'll have another one really soon. When they get long, I spread them out over 2-3 days. We also use the placement test as an end of book test.

 

As far as the mental math stuff goes... Is that what you aren't understanding? Sometimes their methods seem weird, and I just teach the method but let him use whatever method he wants to use. Also, if she's used to using the standard algorithm, she might not understand why she's learning the mental method. Sometimes it's easier to do a problem mentally, and sometimes it's easier to write it down and use the standard algorithm (large numbers especially).

 

Another thing - I seem to always find the first unit of the A book to be a bit boring, so I'd recommend getting a little farther in than that before deciding, but if it's not a good fit, switch back to what worked. Her math career is not doomed if she doesn't use Singapore. ;)

[WishboneDawn]

This subject is hard for me. I LOVE Singapore PM. It changed the way I look at math. My son liked it but often need supplementation and my daughter hated the constant pushing. She just wanted to be told how to work a problem so she could go ahead and do it.

 

This year I dumped both Singapore PM and DM. Son is doing drills and Key to...workbooks and daughter is doing Foerster's Algebra 1 and things are going wonderfully.

 

I think it does honestly work better for most kids in a setting where much of the additional books and strategies are used. But I'm a mom puttering along at home and though we've used it for years it was never as easy as both out current programs are.

 

When Lauchie gets to math we're just going to do lots of play, then lots of drill and learning arithmetic concepts, then the Key to books and on to Foerster. That's it.

[Annie Laurie]

When Lauchie gets to math we're just going to do lots of play, then lots of drill and learning arithmetic concepts, then the Key to books and on to Foerster. That's it.

 

I have come to a similar conclusion with my kids, and will be keeping things a lot simpler when my baby is older and ready for math. Why have I forced my kids through complicated programs to learn basic arithmetic? Well, actually, I know the answer: because of my own insecurities. I think I kind of killed their math curiosity and enjoyment. Lesson learned and I won't be repeating it.

[WishboneDawn]

I have come to a similar conclusion with my kids, and will be keeping things a lot simpler when my baby is older and ready for math. Why have I forced my kids through complicated programs to learn basic arithmetic? Well, actually, I know the answer: because of my own insecurities. I think I kind of killed their math curiosity and enjoyment. Lesson learned and I won't be repeating it.

 

Yes! Now that I have a couple of run throughs under my belt I get elementary math and can't for the life of me understand why I will need workbooks for the basic four operations. You're right though, it's because I didn't understand math myself and wasn't confident. Now I sit back and can't quite remember what all the fuss was about.

 

After ten years of homeschooling I've concluded that less is more and most of the workbooks and such we do with our younger kids is basically busy work. Memory work, drills, fun activities, sure! Most of the formal programs that are out there?

[Sahamamama]

When Lauchie gets to math we're just going to do lots of play, then lots of drill and learning arithmetic concepts, then the Key to books and on to Foerster. That's it.

 

I have come to a similar conclusion with my kids, and will be keeping things a lot simpler when my baby is older and ready for math. Why have I forced my kids through complicated programs to learn basic arithmetic? Well, actually, I know the answer: because of my own insecurities. I think I kind of killed their math curiosity and enjoyment. Lesson learned and I won't be repeating it.

 

Funny, I was just saying to my daughter yesterday, "You know, I CAN teach you subtraction and all that without any workbooks! I KNOW how to subtract, right? So of course I can teach it without a program." And she thought that was a straightforward way of doing it. She's all about the straightforward approach to math. :D

 

So perhaps I'll do with MATH what Angela in Ohio does with LATIN -- teach the content, not the program. We've already blocked out a time for math each day, rather than a set numbers of lessons or pages.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Sahamamama

[JFJ in IL]

We just started homeschooling this year and I decided to try Singapore Math (US edition) for my son who is starting second grade. So, we too, are only about a month into 2A.

I realized after the first day that the HIG was pretty useless.

We use the textbook as our teaching time and we complete those math problems together on a whiteboard. Then he completes the workbook pages that coincide with the lesson. He does all of the exercises with the exception of the few pages when they wanted him write out each number as a word 20+ times...that was excessive!

I also have the extra practice book that I used as a test at the end of the first unit. The extra practice book has some nice detailed teaching points at the beginning of each unit that I plan to use instead of buying the HIG from now on.

Good luck!

[wapiti]

Thoughts? :bigear:

 

It's easy enough to teach the procedure. Teaching the concept behind the algorithm is another matter entirely, as are word problems, both strengths of SM (and MM). I would strongly consider whether the "straightforward" approach that you describe would include sufficient emphasis on the why.

 

Another option may be to use SM or MM but teach it on a white board.

 

Personally, I would not take a do-it-myself approach with the four operations unless I were at the very least using Cuisenaire rods and Rosie's videos. But then, in my mind, that counts as "formal."

 

eta again, I agree with Jackie below - I much prefer the all-in-one book of MM to the multiple SM books

Edited September 6, 2012 by wapiti

[Corraleno]

The HIG is too much verbiage and too much jumping around from book to book. :tongue_smilie:

That was our experience as well. I know that many people just skip the HIG, but I found that many times the really conceptual part of the teaching was in the HIG, not the text, so skipping the HIG meant losing some of what makes Singapore Singapore. And I really hated switching back and forth with so many books!

 

We switched to MM — it includes the same type of conceptual explanations, but there's only one "worktext" to deal with, the explanations are broken down into smaller steps, and it's written directly to the student. I also like the layout of the pages much better, and the fact that I can just print out the pages I want, reprint pages for review if needed, skip pages I don't want, etc. I just print out a few units at a time, single sided, in color on "fast draft" mode (colors are pastel but it uses very little ink), and comb-bind them into a workbook. They use the (blank) back of the previous page as scratch paper for working the problems, so if they make a mistake, I can see their work and see where they went wrong. I print the TOC and bind it in the front of the workbook, and I just check & date the lessons as they're completed. Everything is in one place, neat & tidy, and it's just open-&-go, do-the-next-thing. I love MM!

 

Jackie

[alisoncooks]

Slightly OT, but are the HIGs in the levels above 1A/1B significantly different? Because I find it to be quite the handy resource & cannot imagine doing the program without it! Now I'm slightly worried about the years to come...

[Sahamamama]

That was our experience as well. I know that many people just skip the HIG, but I found that many times the really conceptual part of the teaching was in the HIG, not the text, so skipping the HIG meant losing some of what makes Singapore Singapore. And I really hated switching back and forth with so many books!

 

We switched to MM — it includes the same type of conceptual explanations, but there's only one "worktext" to deal with, the explanations are broken down into smaller steps, and it's written directly to the student. I also like the layout of the pages much better, and the fact that I can just print out the pages I want, reprint pages for review if needed, skip pages I don't want, etc. I just print out a few units at a time, single sided, in color on "fast draft" mode (colors are pastel but it uses very little ink), and comb-bind them into a workbook. They use the (blank) back of the previous page as scratch paper for working the problems, so if they make a mistake, I can see their work and see where they went wrong. I print the TOC and bind it in the front of the workbook, and I just check & date the lessons as they're completed. Everything is in one place, neat & tidy, and it's just open-&-go, do-the-next-thing. I love MM!

 

Jackie

Jackie, do you use MM Blue or Light Blue? We have been using the Blue series, which goes topic by topic. We liked that as a respite from Horizons' overkill spiral. :tongue_smilie:I just thought that, with all the rave reviews I'd read about SPM, we were missing out on something. :D

 

(For MM, I do what you do: I print in draft & Pro-Click the pages, works great).

[Corraleno]

It's easy enough to teach the procedure. Teaching the concept behind the algorithm is another matter entirely, as are word problems, both strengths of SM (and MM). I would strongly consider whether the "straightforward" approach that you describe would include sufficient emphasis on the why.

:iagree:

For example, it's easy enough to teach a child that "when you divide by a fraction, you invert & multiply," but it's crucial that the child also understand WHY that works. It was shocking how many of the math teachers interviewed in Liping Ma's book did not understand this and made errors such as "4 divided by 1/2 = 2." It's very very common for kids who are learning to divide by fractions to be completely flummoxed by the fact that the quotient is larger than the dividend, because their conception of "division" = "cutting something into little pieces," and they see a "tiny" (fractional) divisor and assume the quotient is also going to be very small. To a child who understands what division really is, it's self-evident that the quotient will be larger. IMHO, it's important that even the "simplest" concepts are taught conceptually. That doesn't mean they can't be taught through discovery, play, games, etc.; it's not necessary to use a "curriculum," but it is necessary for the parent/teacher to truly understand the concepts in order to teach them.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Slightly OT, but are the HIGs in the levels above 1A/1B significantly different? Because I find it to be quite the handy resource & cannot imagine doing the program without it! Now I'm slightly worried about the years to come...

IMHO, the HIGs are even more important in the upper levels, where the concepts are more complex and the teacher often needs to fill in the gap when the text makes a large conceptual leap.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Jackie, do you use MM Blue or Light Blue? We have been using the Blue series, which goes topic by topic. We liked that as a respite from Horizons' overkill spiral. :tongue_smilie:I just thought that, with all the rave reviews I'd read about SPM, we were missing out on something. :D

I use Light Blue. I also own a complete set of the Singapore US edition, so I was able to do an extensive side-by-side comparison of the two programs, and I felt that they were pretty equal in terms of conceptual depth and rigor. I do feel that the "challenging" level of word problems in the optional Singapore CWP books are more difficult that the "Puzzle Corner" problems that are part of the MM lessons, but I think the problems in the regular Singapore workbooks are comparable to MM — and it's easy enough to add a CWP book to MM for a child who really wants a lot of extra challenge. Many Singapore users don't use the additional books though.

 

I think one reason Singapore has lots of rave reviews is that it's been around much longer than MM, so more people have used it. But, for me, the advantages of MM — inexpensive, reprintable, all-in-one worktext format, concepts explained in smaller steps, written to the student, built-in fact practice, more problems per lesson, designed specifically for homeschoolers rather than classroom teachers, very helpful & responsive author, etc. — made it an easy choice.

 

Jackie

Edited September 6, 2012 by Corraleno

[Embassy]

I've typically gone over the textbook with the child and then had the child do the workbook independently. I've used the HIG as a guide to pacing, helping explain problem areas, and we do all the mental math exercises in the HIG orally. I've used some of the additional books as well and have my kids do some harder problems in them. My kids don't love it, but their math skills have really blossomed with Singapore. It has really helped them gain strong mental math skills.

[Crimson Wife]

Slightly OT, but are the HIGs in the levels above 1A/1B significantly different? Because I find it to be quite the handy resource & cannot imagine doing the program without it! Now I'm slightly worried about the years to come...

 

The U.S. edition HIG's I found to be essentially worthless except as an answer key. The Standards edition HIG's are significantly better. So when hearing negative feedback about the Singapore HIG, the first question to ask is which edition the complainer is using.

[EKS]

You don't have to do what the HIG says. The most important thing the HIG will do for you is to help *you* understand how to teach the "Singapore way."

 

We did the textbook orally and then my son did the workbook independently, usually one lesson per day. I also had my son do a few review problems from previous reviews rather than do the review all at once. I had my son do the mental math right before bedtime reading instead of reviewing math facts. And we supplemented with the CWP. That's it!

[Mommy22alyns]

I often wonder what's wrong with me that Singapore was such a failure here. CLE ended up being the best for us.

[Alte Veste Academy]

We don't feel there is any jumping around from book to book. You use one, then the other, then you're done.

 

But . . . do exercises, open textbook, do it. Open workbook do it, done math.

 

To me, "juggling" implies a lot more complication than that!

 

I agree. When people complain about going "back and forth" with the books, I'm always truly confused.

 

I have three kids and have used it slightly differently for each. DS9 was difficult because he didn't/doesn't much care for being taught anything. :001_rolleyes:

 

But, roughly...

 

1. I read and internalize the HIG. Sometimes I do stuff with the kids, use manipulatives, play games, etc. and sometimes I don't, but I always read the HIG, because you don't know what you don't know. ;) (OK, full disclosure, sometimes I don't read it now, but only because I'm on the third go-around.)

 

2. Textbook

 

3. Workbook or IP

 

4. CWP

 

I think one reason Singapore has lots of rave reviews is that it's been around much longer than MM, so more people have used it. But, for me, the advantages of MM — inexpensive, reprintable, all-in-one worktext format, concepts explained in smaller steps, written to the student, built-in fact practice, more problems per lesson, designed specifically for homeschoolers rather than classroom teachers, very helpful & responsive author, etc. — made it an easy choice.

 

I agree with this (and would have loved to use MM because I agree with this :lol:). However, for those making a choice between MM and SM, I will say that MM's way of breaking down the teaching into smaller steps is a major drawback for kids who do not like their learning spoon-fed in bite-size pieces. DS9 hated that about MM because it didn't give him an opportunity to figure anything out for himself, and that is the number one killer of math love for him. He could barely tolerate the TB from SM. Had BA been put out on time, it would have been a perfect spine for him.

 

...she wonders why Singapore "makes simple things so unnecessarily complicated?"

 

SM makes things so unnecessarily complicated because...

 

:D

 

Wait. No. Sorry, but it doesn't actually. :tongue_smilie: There is a method to the madness! I can relate though, because I wasn't taught this way. Until I got further along in the program, I also frequently got the impression that some of the teaching was overly complicated. But I plodded on, because I don't know as much about math and teaching math as other brilliant people who have gone before me and recommended SM.

 

Then the light bulbs started going on all along the path and I would frequently think back about how everything before made perfect sense. In retrospect. Hindsight is 20/20 and you don't want to be looking back in middle school realizing your kids are lacking conceptual understanding. SM constantly builds upon previous teaching, slowly and steadily adding more and more bricks on the wall of math understanding. If the base isn't strong (maybe because you decide to skip _____ and just teach the algorithm because you thought SM was convoluted :tongue_smilie:) the wall won't stand for long before it starts to crumble. I've seen walls cry as they crumble. It isn't pretty. :lol:

 

I don't think three weeks is long enough though. I went a year or two before I started catching on to SM's sly ploys and sheer brilliance. :lol:

 

That said, there are other good programs. I do like MM, just not for a puzzling type of child who needs to be challenged.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I often wonder what's wrong with me that Singapore was such a failure here. CLE ended up being the best for us.

 

Aw, no! I think that's totally wrong thinking! SM is a great program but preferences, strengths and weaknesses, etc. all matter. SM isn't the only good program. I've heard wonderful things about CLE.

 

I mean, really, it's the nature of the biz to dismiss 99% of what we evaluate, you know?

[NASDAQ]

MM is Math Mammoth? Math Mammoth has been around the homeschooling market for longer than Singapore, I'm pretty sure.

[TracyP]

MM is Math Mammoth? Math Mammoth has been around the homeschooling market for longer than Singapore, I'm pretty sure.

 

Nope, she just finished writing it about 1.5-2 yrs ago.

[Kathryn]

MM is Math Mammoth? Math Mammoth has been around the homeschooling market for longer than Singapore, I'm pretty sure.

 

According to their websites, Singapore has been around since 1998, and Math Mammoth since 2003.

[SevenDaisies]

Slightly OT, but are the HIGs in the levels above 1A/1B significantly different? Because I find it to be quite the handy resource & cannot imagine doing the program without it! Now I'm slightly worried about the years to come...

 

The HIG for 1A/1B US and all the HIGs for the Standards editions were published by Singapore math and are formatted the same way. The HIGs for 2A/B and up for the US edition were published by Sonlight, so they are different and are not as easy to use.

[Corraleno]

MM is Math Mammoth? Math Mammoth has been around the homeschooling market for longer than Singapore, I'm pretty sure.

According to their websites, Singapore has been around since 1998, and Math Mammoth since 2003.

And 2003 is just when she started making the worksheets for her tutoring students, which eventually turned into the Blue series. The series that is comparable to Singapore PM (Light Blue) was started in 2007 and completed in late 2010.

 

Jackie

[Dinsfamily]

The HIG for 1A/1B US and all the HIGs for the Standards editions were published by Singapore math and are formatted the same way. The HIGs for 2A/B and up for the US edition were published by Sonlight, so they are different and are not as easy to use.

 

Different publishers, but the same author. I've found the US Ed. HIGs to be very useful.