What would you do if you were this Mom?

[Moxie]

I was at a scrapbooking retreat this weekend and we were yakking about kids and teachers. One of the Moms was sharing about her struggles with her 3rd grade daughter. The daughter (we'll call her Susie) is very, very bright and gets into trouble sometimes because of it.

 

Her class was assigned "free writing" in their journals for 20 minutes one day (don't get me started on what a waste of time that is:banghead:). The journals are not graded and are supposed to be private. Susie writes, "I hate Mrs. Smith. She has a fat a## and I hope she goes to McDonalds and gets stuck in the slide". Mrs. Smith reads the journal (I'm not sure when) and Susie is sent to the office and gets suspended for a day. When Mom goes to pick her up, Susie is unrepentant. She told her mother that she was told to write whatever she wanted and that no one would read it and she meant what she wrote. Susie happily took all of her books home and did her work at home the next day.

 

What would you do if you were Susie's Mom? Would you punish her more or just move on and tell her to not write her real thoughts in her journal?

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

1) I would lecture Susie on her language, and the self-destructive power of hateful words, and advise her to follow the Golden Rule.

 

2) I would make Susie apologize to her teacher.

 

3) I would counsel Susie that it is best to never write anything anywhere that she wouldn't want the whole world to read. ( I don't always follow my own advice.)

 

4) I would find an opportunity to shut myself in my room and laugh into my pillow for the ridiculousness of the whole scenario.

[Plucky]

I'd tell my dd not to write private things at school because obviously they aren't private (isn't that a lot like email & work? anyhoo). I'd also ask her not to swear. But to be honest her own private diary is just that. No, I wouldn't punish. She already got her punishment.

[Remudamom]

Snort! I guess it depends on whether or not Mrs. Smith is a donkey's patoot. Pretty cheap to read a private journal.

[Plucky]

1)

 

4) I would find an opportunity to shut myself in my room and laugh into my pillow for the ridiculousness of the whole scenario.

 

I know! That girl is a hoot! She's going to be even more fun at 14. :lol:

[tibbyl]

I was at a scrapbooking retreat this weekend and we were yakking about kids and teachers. One of the Moms was sharing about her struggles with her 3rd grade daughter. The daughter (we'll call her Susie) is very, very bright and gets into trouble sometimes because of it.

 

Her class was assigned "free writing" in their journals for 20 minutes one day (don't get me started on what a waste of time that is:banghead:). The journals are not graded and are supposed to be private. Susie writes, "I hate Mrs. Smith. She has a fat a## and I hope she goes to McDonalds and gets stuck in the slide". Mrs. Smith reads the journal (I'm not sure when) and Susie is sent to the office and gets suspended for a day. When Mom goes to pick her up, Susie is unrepentant. She told her mother that she was told to write whatever she wanted and that no one would read it and she meant what she wrote. Susie happily took all of her books home and did her work at home the next day.

 

What would you do if you were Susie's Mom? Would you punish her more or just move on and tell her to not write her real thoughts in her journal?

 

 

Did the teacher clearly state that she would not read the journal? If yes, Susie should not have been punished by either the school or the parent. She owns her thoughts and has a right to them as long as she does not act outwardly rude or nasty to teacher.

 

If Susie could reasonably have been expected to know the teacher would indeed read the journal, then she should be reminded to exercise tact in her writing and steer clear of certain subjects. I think it is fair to assume that *all* your traditional school work will be subject to review.

 

As I type this advice, please know that my *own* homeschooled kid who spent 3 semesters in public school did not heed my advice although her criticism was directed at school policy, not personnel. Still it was not well received.

[Julie in Austin]

I would write a strongly worded letter of complaint to the teacher, with a copy to the principal as well, stating that while I did not support my daughter's personal attacks and would talk to her about them, I was more concerned with the fact that Mrs. Smith promised the children privacy and then violated that. I would strongly object to the suspension since Susie had every reason to suspect that her words would be "private."

 

And I'd give that kid a hug and take her to McDonald's.

[LauraGB]

Snort! I guess it depends on whether or not Mrs. Smith is a donkey's patoot. Pretty cheap to read a private journal.

 

:smilielol5: Agreed! Mrs. Smith should not tell lies! If Susie were my daughter, I would discuss with Susie how to be creative w/her adjectives and nouns without swearing. And...that's about it. (Shrug)

 

What did Susie's mom do, anyway?

[bettyandbob]

as the other posters said I would tell anything written for school is not private--but she probably understands this now.

 

Without involving Susie, I would ask the teacher exactly what she told the students about the journals. I would look to see if there was something about them in back to school night hand outs, etc. Then, if I would schedule an appointment with the principal to get the suspension expunged from Susie's school record. Saying Susie had a right to believe she was keeping a private journal and a private journal is not disrespectful to the teacher, since it is private. In Susie was respectful, she did exactly as asked. I'd probably make a stink and go higher than the principal if I had too. Then, Susie's teacher would be real uncomfortable, because her principal would be mad that there was a parent making a stink.

[2cents]

Well....since the teacher supposedly told the kids to write whatever they wanted and that the journals wouldn't be read, I would argue that the teacher is wrong. I would explain to the child that journals are risky things and I personally don't keep one because I think they are accidents just waiting to happen. If the teacher didn't drop it, I'd tell her no more 'journaling' for that child and give her a gift card to McDonalds and hope she plugs up a slide. That's just my opinion. ;)

[jenn-]

I would be mad at the school for reading what was supposed to be a private journal. I can kinda see why they were doing it so if anyone was writing threatening things or signs of abuse then they could do something about it, but in this case the teacher just didn't like seeing negative things written about her. I would also request a room change since that teacher would never treat the girl the same. I might mention to her that those are not nice words to use no matter whether any one is supposed to be reading them or not, but she is obviously hearing them somewhere.

[Laurie4b]

What a mess.

 

First of all, would be the moral implications of dd's writing: you don't say that someone has a fat *** , no matter who it is. Secondly, you don't wish harm on someone. Those actions are against our family's moral standards. She would get the standard family punishment for cussing, and a discussion about wishing harm on others. Another discussion about using people's looks to make fun of them. There might be more than discussions on those last two points depending on prior history. Because there was disrespect to the teacher (whether the teacher ever read it or not is beside the point), there would be consequences for that disrespect. We would tend to choose something like helping clean the classroom or earning $$ to buy the teacher a meal out. Those would be the types of consequences I'd be inclined to for my dd.

 

Secondly, I would work with dd on the life lesson: don't write private things in a journal other people have easy access to, even if they tell you they won't read them. They might. Don't write things in emails, notes you pass in class, etc. That's just reality.

 

Now for the school. First of all, I would find out just what was said to the student's about their journals. Does teacher acknowledge that kids were told the journals were private? Does she acknowledge that students were told they could write whatever they wanted to? If so, I would absolutely fight the suspension. It was wrong to suspend a child for writing whatever she wanted to if she was told she could, and it was wrong for the teacher to read the journal if she said she wouldn't. At this point, I think you get into free speech issues, etc. and I'm a strong civil libertarian. Additionally, if the teacher said she wouldn't read them and did, she lied. That is also morally wrong. Though I doubt a parent would get very far over the "teacher lied" thing in and of itself, it would be germaine to the argument to get her record expunged.

 

In short, *if* it is true that the teacher said what the mother thinks she did , then everyone involved did something wrong. The teacher's /school's wrong doesn't cancel out the dd's , and the dd's wrong doesn't cancel out the teacher's/school's. I would think that it all needed to be addressed.

[Tracey in TX]

ROFL

Mrs. Smith needs to be reprimanded for telling children their journals are private. Maybe she should be expelled for the day. Unpaid.

 

Susie should apologize for using inappropriate language at school. Why should she be repentant for sharing her feelings in her journal? Language needs to be cleaned up, but she felt she was in a 'safe area' to vent.

[kalanamak]

I'd tell the girl she learned a lesson on "private" and "we'll pretend it is private" garbage every adult has to deal with (look at all the kiss and tell stuff out there).

 

I'd also explain how utterly unhelpful and lazy that kind of writing is and that she is clever enough to do better. I'd explain how only small-minded people make themselves feel bigger by knocking others down, and she wouldn't want to be small-minded would she?

 

I'd also make her apologize to 1) make the rest of the year go better and 2) encourage her to be "the bigger person" in this mess with wrong-ness on both sides....I think they both should say sorry, but one can only control one's end, KWIM?

[angela in ohio]

What a mess.

 

First of all, would be the moral implications of dd's writing: you don't say that someone has a fat *** , no matter who it is. Secondly, you don't wish harm on someone. Those actions are against our family's moral standards. She would get the standard family punishment for cussing, and a discussion about wishing harm on others. Another discussion about using people's looks to make fun of them. There might be more than discussions on those last two points depending on prior history. Because there was disrespect to the teacher (whether the teacher ever read it or not is beside the point), there would be consequences for that disrespect. We would tend to choose something like helping clean the classroom or earning $$ to buy the teacher a meal out. Those would be the types of consequences I'd be inclined to for my dd.

 

Secondly, I would work with dd on the life lesson: don't write private things in a journal other people have easy access to, even if they tell you they won't read them. They might. Don't write things in emails, notes you pass in class, etc. That's just reality.

 

 

:iagree:

[elegantlion]

Hum, those are awful bitter thoughts for a third grader. :glare: If the journals were supposed to be private and they weren't, then the teacher lied. If I were Susie and didn't like the teacher in the first place why would I believe a word she says in the future, she's already set the precedent of lying.

 

3rd grade is not the place to be learning about the subtle politics of adult realms of privacy (ie: office e-mail). School is supposed to be a place about truth.

 

Sounds like Susie is bored and unfortunately doesn't have better vocabulary skills to define her emotions.

 

If it were me, I would probably ask the teacher for an apology for reading something that was supposed to be private. I would probably have a chat with Susie about talking badly about others, however at 3rd grade are those original thoughts or is she picking up on vibes and attitudes from the parents?

 

All in all it's a bad situation. I would probably want my child removed from that class as well, the teacher has ceased to have any authority over that child by her lying behavior.

[Marie in Oh]

the poster who said- find a room and hide under a pillow and laugh my head off.

 

I would then tell dd that she should not use swear words in speech or writing, but stick up for her in the sense that the teacher was wrong in reading the journal.

 

Then I would go laugh some more. Sounds like something I would have written at that age. I was quite a pistol.

[Chris in VA]

I agree she shouldn't have written anything mean, but come on, what 's the point of having a journal and a "free write" if you can't express what's inside, even if it is mean and ugly? How many of us have written out feelings just to work them out, never really following with any action? Of course I'd discuss with dd the life lessons involved--don't be cruel, don't write out thoughts in a public place (including the computer). But I'd also tell her she can write anything she wants at home.

 

The bigger question I'd have for the school is,

 

What the h#ll is the point of having the kids write what no one is going to read, anyway? They can do that at home. Those kinds of journals have a point, to be sure, but why do that at school? The teacher should never collect them. NEVER. You can bet I'd have a discussion with the teacher, with the principal in the same room--they'd both get a calm, reasoned question or two from me--but I wouldn't be feeling that way.

 

I'd be furious. I'm furious now, just thinking about it.

 

How DARE they suspend my child? I'd get that suspension taken off her record, right NOW.

 

 

ETA: It occurs to me on rereading this that I bet I'd have to explain why I write out my thoughts in a public place! lol! But I'd never call any of you a fat @ss.

[Nicole M]

These are some great ideas, and since I agree with most of it, I don't have anything to add there.

 

However, I have to tell you that this reminds me of a deleted scene from the movie Love Actually. Emma Thompson's character has been called into her son's school because he's written an offensive essay: "If you could see farts". Then the essay is read and while you hear the little voice reading it, you see images of the queen with a green blob emanating around her, and other funny scenes. One was a wedding, I think. The ordeal in the principal's office is finally over, Emma looks furious, drags her child out into the hallway and basically says something like, "I am so sorry I put you in this situation with complete nincompoops."

 

Of course, that child was older than 3rd grade, like your friend's child. But that scene did come to mind quite strongly. I liked it better than the movie.

 

I hope you update us.

[Saille]

I am sorry to say that, having been a public school teacher, I can say with assurance that teachers all across the country tell their students that journals are private and then read them anyway. The idea seems to be that children are more likely to write if they are unconcerned about being judged. I used to tell my students to fold the page over if it was private. I admit to sometimes peeking, but I wouldn't have considered anything I read there to be actionable unless it was some kind of direct threat.

 

It seems to me that this child suspected her journal was being read and decided to test her theory. If she didn't think her teacher was a "donkey's patoot" before, she does now. That teacher absolutely proved the child's point.

 

I have a problem with negative comments about body type in general, so I'd address that. I don't consider personal insults to be an appropriate way to handle a problem, even internally. Regardless of whether the journal was supposed to be private, taking her anger to such a personalized and insulting place is as damaging to that little girl as it could possibly have been to the teacher.

 

If my daughter was truly angry at or deeply disliked her teacher, I'd like to know why, and then I'd like to stay focussed on the actual, substantive, behavior-based reasons. I would absolutely have a very direct and frank discussion with the principal, teacher and school counselor about the implications of reading and acting on journal entries that students had been told were private. If I had a spouse/partner, I'd bring him/her. I'd be prepared for the school to be unreceptive, though. I might also point out that, in an era of school shootings, it's probably disingenuous to even suggest that any material written at school would be private. If a teacher sees a threat in a journal, even accidentally, it needs to be actionable. Students need to know that, even if a teacher offers not to read certain things or certain pages, certain things are never OK to write, just as one doesn't make jokes about hijacking planes while going through airport security.

[Snickerdoodle]

Wow, what a powerful thing to teach a young child. You are not allowed to have private thoughts. It's ok for adults to go back on their word.

[lynn]

:lol:. That is funny. However, 1. susie needs a talking to about talking aobut other people. 2. If journals were to be private and it's written down someplace the teacher is in violation of her promise. She lied and needs to be accoutable for her actions.

[Stacy in NJ]

1) I would lecture Susie on her language, and the self-destructive power of hateful words, and advise her to follow the Golden Rule.

 

2) I would make Susie apologize to her teacher.

 

3) I would counsel Susie that it is best to never write anything anywhere that she wouldn't want the whole world to read. ( I don't always follow my own advice.)

 

4) I would find an opportunity to shut myself in my room and laugh into my pillow for the ridiculousness of the whole scenario.

 

I agree. I'd add, have a friendly, nonconfrontational conversation with her teacher about the contridiction of tell Susie that her journal was private, then reading it.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Ok- my kid would TOTALLY do something like that (minus the cursing, as she's the language police). I think it is incredibly immature on the part of the teacher to be so offended as to send the girl to the office. She should be a professional, and as such, realize that a lot of 3rd graders hate their teachers. On days when dd has been less than thrilled with me and written "mean Mommy" stuff, I often laugh and don't take it personally. I'm not going to pretend I never thought anything nasty about someone, and expressing it in a journal or otherwise in private is exactly what we've tried to teach dd to do.

 

I can understand being concerned over the language, however it's not like the girl used the word aloud or in an assignment to be turned in. It would be a sign, "Hey, I need to watch this kid and if I notice her starting to become a potty mouth or have other negative behaviors, I should talk to the parents."

 

I'd also pick my daughter up from school every day and make sure that journal went home with us daily- or insisted the teacher change the assignment to an ungraded daily writing assignment that would be handed in.

[cin]

. A healthy dose of respect for authority lecture would be in order as well. Although I don't think I would encourage my child to respect a liar.

 

 

Agreeing here. Respecting authority, um, except for the teacher that has deemed herself unworthy of all respect by lying and snooping. ICK I would have a serious talk with the teacher about this very thing. And about how her trust has been destroyed. Totally. I would then request a room change because of YOUR lack of ability to trust and respect someone who lies and snoops. And her immaturity. I guesss she always LOVED her teachers and NEVER EVER, as a child, wished something would happen so that they would not be her teacher anymore?!!!?

 

I would talk to my daughter, in a somewhat light manner, but we would discuss the profanity, putting things in writing, and how hurtful words can be. But I would also discuss with her how hurt she was by the lying and broken trust. And I might even tell her that I understand how she feels abotu her teacher, and that I hated some of my teachers, but that we really should try to not be MEAN in our dislike for people. I would also try to remember that she is only 8 yrs old, and at 8, they may even wish their teachers were dead, and not fully understand what DEAD means, ya' know?

 

And I might, depending on how the conversation goes, agree with my daughter that Mrs. Smith's bottom is big, but that we really should talke about postive things, and I might even allow us both to discuss that it would be sort of funny if her bottom got stuck in the slide at McDonald's. This would be a great opportunity to help strengthen your relationship with her. Let her see that you are human, and you think it is funny, but it's not something we should really do, or think about, because it's not nice.

 

And DH and I would laugh ourselves silly over it, because by this time, Mrs. Smith has lost all hopes of respect from us, and it would be hysterically funny.

[starlashine]

Snort! I guess it depends on whether or not Mrs. Smith is a donkey's patoot. Pretty cheap to read a private journal.

 

:iagree: wholeheartedly!

[Danestress]

I never just take a story from the child and assume it's true in all the particulars. I've learned over time that you have to really go to the teacher and talk through things, and sometimes you end up with a very different perspective than you get just from your own child, even a child who wasn't being purposefully deceitful.

 

So I would be asking the teacher what the policy was on reading the journals. Somehow I just don't fully believe that she told the children she wasn't going to read them, did, and then punished the child after doing so. Maybe that's exactly what happened, but I would want to talk to the teacher and hear what she believed she told them the policy was.

 

I don't think writing in a journal is a total waste of time, but the way. I think it could be useful for some kids, just to get them writing. I'm not saying it would be my first choice, but I don't really object to it in principal.

 

Anyway, I would be concerned if this were my child. I wouldn't want my child cultivating, even within herself, an attitude of superiority to fat people. I would be really sad to see that a child was capable of thinking and writing this way. I wouldn't punish it if the child really were told that no one would read it, but later, when this blows over, I would really want to think and pray about how to cultivate in my child an ability to see to the heart of a person, to see that all people are lovely in some way, and I would just really hope my children over time wouldn't be the kind of people who would find it satisfying emotionally to write something so ugly and petty about another person.

 

If it's true that the child was told no one was going to read it, and if it's true that the teacher read it anyway, I would not punish the child for what she wrote. But I would remember that the teacher probably feels very differently toward my child now then she did before, and I would want myself and for my child to work very hard to mend that.