CC- would this bug you or am I being too sensitive?

[ELITEANDLOVINGIT]

I don't go to church, but have a spiritual life which is very dedicated. I love many aspects of church, but this was one reason I stopped. One of the final services I attended with my family was an Easter Sunday service where we were handed nails and asked to drive them into the cross. I then tried to go back with our kids to a local church - I loved the adult church, but in kids class the kids were told to draw on lambs and then the kids were forced to tear them up (Cain and Able). I just got tierd of it. My children know that I believe in god, they know my feelings about heaven, life and death. My youngest is a cancer survivor so we have spent A LOT of time on the topic, but I just really feel no need to go to a place that scares my children into knowing the love of god. We have too many miracles to celebrate to waste our time hearing about the evil of the world.

 

I say, go, look for a church and congregation that makes you feel god every time you step in..then you know your in the right place. If you can't find one, celebrate your faith and your love for god on your own with your family until one comes along. Totally my opinion, and I am sure there will be many that disagree.

 

http://bible.cc/matthew/6-6.htm - Biblical Reference

Edited August 6, 2012 by kerryfrank73

[BigMamaBird]

No, you're not being too sensitive.

 

I LOVE the LOTR movies but I would be very upset if my youngsters saw it and it wasn't my choice. I was a very visually sensitive child and those monsters would have frightened me terribly. Church should be a place you don't worry about giving your kids nightmares.

[Little Nyssa]

You're not being too sensitive imo.

[Dustybug]

My opinion - not only are you not being too sensitive, but movie clips don't belong in a worship service. Before or after, but not during the actual worship. Just my opinion. ;)

 

:iagree:

[besroma]

This is also me...I hate leaving churches - so does my husband. I'm not sure what's going on and I'm not sure it's going to be better anywhere we go. I'm starting to wonder if homeschooling and protecting children's innocence for the most part is soooooo off the beaten path, we will never fit in anywhere and I should just count my losses and move on. We live in a small college town and our church is considered fairly conservative because we have the gall to believe that the Bible is God's word. I haven't felt we were that counter cultural until this past year or so. I don't want to hide in a homeschool bubble world.

 

Just so you know - my 12 year old has seen LOTR only because my husband felt he was ready. We decided to show him those movies because he could handle them. He stayed in church today because he had already seen them. I don't like someone else - especially a church deciding for us when our children can handle seeing disturbing images. We have TVs, but will watch programs (like the Olympics for example now) with the remote in hand because the station's ads for upcoming programing is so violent at times.

 

Beth

 

Beth,

 

I am in complete agreement with everything you have said, so please don't feel alone.

 

Have you looked into churches outside of your area? Like Remudamom does, many people find it worthwhile to drive considerable distances to worship and fellowship with like-minded Christians.

Edited August 6, 2012 by besroma

[pfamilygal]

:iagree:I'd be looking for another church. Who cares if the clip is relevant to the message? Movies during a worship service? Not at all appropriate - I don't care what movie you're talking about.

 

Really? We have a very visual culture. Our pastor showed a clip from Les Mis in his sermon about forgiveness and going the extra mile that had us all in tears. Really brought home the "70x7" idea. Jesus used stories to teach, why shouldn't we?

 

 

But, to the OP, yes that is out of bounds. Those monsters were scary and I wouldn't be too trusting of a pastor that showed my kids inappropriate movies.

[TranquilMind]

Our church played clips from another PG-13 movie - this time the Lord of the Rings series - during church and there is no kids church, just nursery care. Not nice clips, but pretty graphic evil monster type clips.

...

Yes, the clips had a point - this time spiritual warfare, but I don't like going to church only to be warned that the sermon may not be for little eyes. Big sigh...

 

 

 

No, you are not being too sensitive. They have no business showing movie clips in church in the first place, much less movie clips that are not appropriate for every member there. PG 13? No.

 

There are some PG 13 movies that aren't even appropriate for ME.

 

If you don't have something to say, don't be lazy and let the movie say it for you. It has NO PLACE in church.

 

Just my two cents.

[TranquilMind]

kerryfrank73: I don't go to church, but have a spiritual life which is very dedicated. I love many aspects of church, but this was one reason I stopped. One of the final services I attended with my family was an Easter Sunday service where we were handed nails and asked to drive them into the cross.

That's awful.

 

I'm so not a person who will be manipulated into doing something at church. Don't tell me what to do, say, think. Tell me what YOU do, say, think.

 

I would not go there either. But I just wanted to say that there ARE churches that are not emotionally manipulative. Really!

 

My youngest is a cancer survivor so we have spent A LOT of time on the topic, but I just really feel no need to go to a place that scares my children into knowing the love of god. We have too many miracles to celebrate to waste our time hearing about the evil of the world.

 

 

I understand! There is evil in the world, so we don't ignore that, but Jesus has overcome the world (in my faith) so be of good cheer!

 

I say, go, look for a church and congregation that makes you feel god every time you step in..then you know your in the right place. If you can't find one, celebrate your faith and your love for god on your own with your family until one comes along. Totally my opinion, and I am sure there will be many that disagree.

 

 

I don't disagree, but we spent a period of time doing our own celebration and I think it weakened us. We are better off meeting with the community of believers. It just keeps us stronger, we notice, having done both. So don't give up.

[TranquilMind]

I would be bothered by this, too. Our ex-church wanted to show the crucifixion scene from The Passion of Christ. I raised a stink about it. The kids were going to be in there for it and I didn't think it was appropriate.

 

I have never seen this movie myself, for goodness sakes. I can't imagine showing this to kids. I couldn't even watch a preview.

 

I know what happened there. I don't need to see Hollywood's skewed perception.

[TranquilMind]

I am not even vaguely conservative and I would not be ok with this. Not P-13 for kiddos and frankly not with videos during a sermon at a church service. The pastor where we go is very compelling, insightful and engaging without movies of any kind. I would be looking elsewhere.

 

Right! Find this guy! I know it is like searching for a needle in a haystack sometimes but this guy is out there! (not this specific guy only!;))

[TranquilMind]

This is also me...I hate leaving churches - so does my husband. I'm not sure what's going on and I'm not sure it's going to be better anywhere we go. I'm starting to wonder if homeschooling and protecting children's innocence for the most part is soooooo off the beaten path, we will never fit in anywhere and I should just count my losses and move on. We live in a small college town and our church is considered fairly conservative because we have the gall to believe that the Bible is God's word. I haven't felt we were that counter cultural until this past year or so. I don't want to hide in a homeschool bubble world.

 

Just so you know - my 12 year old has seen LOTR only because my husband felt he was ready. We decided to show him those movies because he could handle them. He stayed in church today because he had already seen them. I don't like someone else - especially a church deciding for us when our children can handle seeing disturbing images. We have TVs, but will watch programs (like the Olympics for example now) with the remote in hand because the station's ads for upcoming programing is so violent at times.

 

Beth

 

You are not alone. This is not ok at all.

[Onceuponatime]

Yes, I would be miffed. Not just because of the video clips, but because of the "spiritual warfare" stuff as well. I wish religious fear-mongering wasn't popular.

[momofkhm]

This has happened before (and we went through the right channels but pretty much got told, "there's a point to the movie clip, it's OK") - at least we got a warning beforehand this time. As in, "clips shown today may be disturbing for younger children."

 

 

 

I think this may be why you got the warning this time.

 

I don't think PG-13 clips, well any movie clips really, have a place in worship. I can see it in a Sunday school class - adult or teen for PG-13 - or at youth group. But not in worship.

 

You are right to be miffed. I have a friend whose child at age 4 never watched movies period. They all scared him. I can't imagine what they were thinking.

 

Describe the movie scene if you must. But no clips in worship.

[Punks in Ontario]

I haven't read all the replies, but if dh isn't concerned, I'd have him take the kids out next time, and deal with any fallout with the kids.

 

And yes, I would not be happy with clips like this in a worship service.

[kdeno]

I would not be happy about this at all :(

[Onceuponatime]

Okay. I'm not Christian, so maybe I'm missing some really obvious point, but how in the world does the LotR movie connect to anything Christian? Does Revelations talk about the four Orcs of the Apocalypse? Do some people find themselves possessed by Ring Wraiths? Is liberalism dangerous because you don't want to end up as a bunch of Ent-huggers?

 

I don't get it. :001_huh:

 

I'm guessing it has something to do with "battling the forces of darkness."

 

There is popular Christian literature with this kind of theme. It's purpose seems to be to personify good and evil in order to increase concern for one's own, or other's, spiritual state. IMO it causes unnecessary fear and axiety among adults as well as children.

[Zebra]

I will never understand why staying "one step" behind the culture is acceptable in Christian circles. It's also very sad (and very familiar to me!!!) that you are even questioning if you are over sensitive. You aren't.

 

Frankly if they want to add some juicy PG-13 excitement to the service, the Bible has plenty to choose from.

[bethben]

I don't mind the occasional video clip. We have become such a visual culture that those clips become a "parable" like Jesus used to teach. I am only going to make stinks about PG 13 rated movies showing the reason they were rated PG 13. The ironic thing? Last Sunday, the youth group who went to Costa Rico showed a puppet show they had been performing in Costa Rico. The leader of the group (a different church) made it a point to show the kids that the cute fuzzy purple monster was really a puppet because it had scared some children previously. We go from purple fuzzy monster to huge scary monster (how is a child to know that is not real?) on a screen with the lights turned out and the sound up. Sure, the monster was defeated, but the difference in attitudes on how to treat children is shocking.

 

Beth

Edited August 6, 2012 by bethben

[J-rap]

It would bother me. I've been to churches that might show an occasional video clip that adds a little creativity to the message -- like a music video of a hymn. But a movie clip of LOTR would bother me.

 

It bothers me that so many Christians got so hyped up over the LOTR series thinking that there is such a deep message of Christianity in there, and therefore anything in the series is acceptable. And then another movie with the same or even less violence or action is bad because it doesn't have the Christian stamp of approval. But that's another story.

[ktgrok]

Why on earth can't the minister make his point without movie clips? Jesus got a lot across without any hollywood movie clips. So did hundreds of years of the church. There is no need.

[Harriet Vane]

If they want to continue with those types of messages, then I think they need a separate children's church. You can't keep forcing the moms to go stand outside with the kids, that is stupid.

 

:iagree:

[Hwin]

I don't think you are being too sensitive. If you don't separate the kids during church, then the message has to be appropriate for kids...right?! Church should not be the place where they see scary or violent images.

[mommaduck]

Take it from someone that was taken to a late night camp meeting at 5yrs old where they showed a (now cheesy, but then scary) movie of the anti-christ, people being taken at gunpoint, adults and children beheaded, tattooed foreheads on zombie-like prisoners, etc. This stuff does NOT belong in church. Children do NOT need to see this stuff. (btw, we LOVE LOTR, but my children have watched it with us and at our own discretion. It's not something I would just sit anyone's child down to)

[bethben]

I guess the difference is between visual and audible. What a child sees is harder to explain away vs. what a child hears. The things I remember vividly from childhood that scared me were things I saw with my eyes vs. heard with my ears. Yes, there is a ton of non G-rated things in the Bible and in our world, BUT, we as parents can talk to them on their level and help them understand. I have never had a problem with what they hear in church (not all G rated by any means) - but what they don't understand, they dismiss or we talk about it. But a video draws them in instantly. My children have heard bits and pieces of what happened in Colorado. They understand it enough at their level. Now, let's say I showed them even 1 minute of that disaster on a large screen with the lights turned off and the speakers on high. How can that do anything but give them fear? Can I keep them away from seeing something they shouldn't? Yes- on TV and movies - not in real life. But should they ever see evil in real life, we can deal with it at that point. It shouldn't be forced on them.

 

Beth

Edited August 6, 2012 by bethben

[Marylou]

No, you are not being overly sensitive.

 

Movies belong in theaters (although most nowadays belong in the sewer); church services are for worship and hearing the preached Word.

 

I agree with John Piper on this one. "The use of video and drama largely is a token of unbelief in the power of preaching".

 

I just finished reading The Vanishing Word which recounts the history of God's people as "a people of the book". It's an excellent look into the topic of visual imagery in America and the effects of it (not good).

 

Jesus posed the question whether there would be faith on the earth when He returns. Faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the Word of Christ (not Hollywood).

[SunnyDays]

First, I agree that you are not being overly sensitive. If it's family-integrated worship, it should be family friendly, period. And I agree with you, OP, that there is a big difference between hearing a comment about something dark or tragic from a Bible story, versus seeing a clip on the big screen. Visual input just stays with you.

 

This is a timely topic for me.... we've been at our church about a year, and there are many things we like. But we've been feeling like it's rather seeker-centered, with watered down Bible teaching, and... movie clips a couple times a month in the service. No scary monsters, but it seems like they're trying too hard to be "culturally relevant" at the cost of growing the congregation in faith.

[TranquilMind]

This is a timely topic for me.... we've been at our church about a year, and there are many things we like. But we've been feeling like it's rather seeker-centered, with watered down Bible teaching, and... movie clips a couple times a month in the service. No scary monsters, but it seems like they're trying too hard to be "culturally relevant" at the cost of growing the congregation in faith.

 

Yeah. I hate that. So many churches are like this and study and adhere to business principles to "grow the business".

 

If God isn't growing it, it isn't real growth.

 

We left one church after a series of "teaser" clips about how they were doing some new, great thing in the Kingdom that would really advance the gospel and reach people in a meaningful way. We wondered if it would be a soup kitchen, a homeless clinic...something like that? NO. It was a newly designed website by a professional company (cost like 50 grand!) and a COFFEE MUG!

 

Really? Really????

 

We never went back. There's your sign, as the comedian says.

[wintermom]

This wouldn't bother me, as there was warning ahead of time and the effect of the clips was relevant to the sermon. If it only happens a few times a year, then I'd be fine with it.

 

I PREFER a message that is suitable for any age, but I don't demand it, as long as there is a prior warning.

[Parrothead]

I don't get the whole thing about screens in church. To me it is really something bizarre. For church to be a place that the entire family cannot attend is equally bizarre. I might be okay with the screen if it was a one time deal - as in once in a lfetime. But from what the OP said this seems like a regular occurrence. Personally I'd find somewhere different.

[SunnyDays]

Yeah. I hate that. So many churches are like this and study and adhere to business principles to "grow the business".

 

If God isn't growing it, it isn't real growth.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Reaching out to unbelievers, growing the church, breaking off new church plants... all good things. Until it gets in the way of actually helping the existing church mature in their faith. Business principles do seem to be at work here.

[PeacefulChaos]

It would bother me. I've been to churches that might show an occasional video clip that adds a little creativity to the message -- like a music video of a hymn. But a movie clip of LOTR would bother me.

 

It bothers me that so many Christians got so hyped up over the LOTR series thinking that there is such a deep message of Christianity in there, and therefore anything in the series is acceptable. And then another movie with the same or even less violence or action is bad because it doesn't have the Christian stamp of approval. But that's another story.

:iagree: with you completely. I love the LOTR movies... And others that don't have the christian stamp of approval. :). Guess which ones people have tried to tell us we shouldn't be watching? ;)

That is my opinion as well. They DID warn you. What about Revelation? If they talked about that with kids present, IMO it would be far worse. Screaming and gnashing of teeth....being thrown to the fiery pits...yeh. What about the Old Testament and talk of killing all the male children? There are many things in the Bible that are tamed down when we teach it to the kids, but it is still the reality of what happened. Life isn't all sunshine and roses, and people need to really "get" that the end times WILL come. As long as they gave a warning, and I was given a chance to remove my child, I don't see an issue with it. Sometimes we really need those slap upside the head sermons to get the point across.

2 things:

1. While I do agree with you to an extent, I also think this could have been done better. Like just one montage of clips at the beginning (so only having to leave the slice once, for a short period of time) as opposed to spread throughout (resulting in missing a whole service, basically.)

2. I'm with the OP that hearing about these things is not as scary as seeing them on the big screen. We can picture it and it's horrible, yes - but put that in a movie theaters setting and it's much worse.

Yeah. I hate that. So many churches are like this and study and adhere to business principles to "grow the business".

 

If God isn't growing it, it isn't real growth.

 

We left one church after a series of "teaser" clips about how they were doing some new, great thing in the Kingdom that would really advance the gospel and reach people in a meaningful way. We wondered if it would be a soup kitchen, a homeless clinic...something like that? NO. It was a newly designed website by a professional company (cost like 50 grand!) and a COFFEE MUG!

 

Really? Really????

 

We never went back. There's your sign, as the comedian says.

:svengo:

Sigh... I just don't know what to even say to that. How many people got saved because of the mug? :tongue_smilie: :lol:

I don't get the whole thing about screens in church. To me it is really something bizarre. For church to be a place that the entire family cannot attend is equally bizarre. I might be okay with the screen if it was a one time deal - as in once in a lfetime. But from what the OP said this seems like a regular occurrence. Personally I'd find somewhere different.

 

Do you mean screens in general or just the showing of video clips?

Most churches have screens for the words of the song. Our church has 2 screens which display the words for the songs, any specific verses or notes that the pastor wants to get across during the message, and a countdown before service begins.

Regarding the songs in particular, we have no other way of seeing the words without the screen.

[Alicia64]

I didn't read everyone's post, but wanted to chime in: this would be a huge deal for me.

 

a) PG-13 clips are entirely inappropriate for kids. . . not just "little" kid. I don't let my nine-year-olds watch PG-13.

 

b) with video being everywhere these days -- doctors'/dentists' offices, grocery stores, fast food stops, even the gas station for crying out loud, I would hope not to see it in church.

 

Bad decision making for the church in my opinion.

 

Alley

[catz]

If they want to continue with those types of messages, then I think they need a separate children's church. You can't keep forcing the moms to go stand outside with the kids, that is stupid.

 

:iagree: Personally, I'd be fine with this at our church (UU). But all the kids are down at Sunday school during service. We have occassional family Sundays where services are designed to be family friendly. ALL your services should be family friendly or you should get an e-mail or call ahead of time, so you can decide how you want to spend your morning.

[jasar31629]

This would bother me a lot. As far as references to upsetting Bible passages and stories- a child's reference point for imagination hasn't matured yet. I can read Grimm's Fairy Tales and the Bible, including some rather upsetting portions without my dd having nightmares. Same thing for the kid who sings the songs about Mom's head popping off while tearing apart dandelions. The visuals haven't arrived yet, yk? They imagine a cartoon head bouncing around the room. Songs and stories are much less upsetting to most individuals than seeing something happen right before your eyes.

 

I keep dd in church with us. The pastor has preached on everything over the years, including sexual and violent subjects. 99% has gone right over dd's head. It seems that until she has some reference point for what is being discussed, it just isn't engaging for her. If it was, I'd rather be the one conversing with her about the topic than neighborhood kids or media or whomever. As she has grown, she started paying attention to new things, but it's at her rate as she becomes aware, yk? If we would have been faced with visual presentations of the same material, I can't imagine the sort of shell-shocked conversations we would have had. It's just different.

 

That's all my two cents though. I'm sure there are others out there who are more auditory, curious or anxious and that sitting in a service at all would be overload for them, even at a very young age. Options should be given if at all possible. The problem with the OP's church though, is that this isn't an adult service at all. This is a family service. As such, unless they encourage congregants to bring their 4yo's to PG-13 films in general, they need to stick to G-rated clips or nothing.

[QuirkyKapers]

I wouldn't like it. Especially since my son has wanted to see it and I told him no. I don't think you are being too sensitive.

[Carrie12345]

 

 

Do you mean screens in general or just the showing of video clips?

Most churches have screens for the words of the song. Our church has 2 screens which display the words for the songs, any specific verses or notes that the pastor wants to get across during the message, and a countdown before service begins.

Regarding the songs in particular, we have no other way of seeing the words without the screen.

 

Hymnals. And wrist watches.

(Man, does that mean I'm old?! :001_huh:)

[*Lulu*]

Hymnals. And wrist watches.

(Man, does that mean I'm old?! :001_huh:)

 

Not all churches have hymnals.

[Carrie12345]

Not all churches have hymnals.

 

Obviously. But the statement was "...we have no other way of seeing the words without the screen." It wasn't a problem for 2000 years, I'm sure it could be easily overcome today!

[Abigail4476]

I understand some of the *edgier* churches like to incorporate lots of media and I'm fine with that if it inspires and supports people in their faith. We incorporate media on a smaller scale, especially at events geared towards teens and children.

 

That said, we do not watch movies or movie clips during church, and I would be 100% opposed unless the content itself was G-rated. For church with a mixed-age crowd, the clipped portions must be acceptable viewing for everyone present--no matter what the source movie is rated.

 

The Easter video and song linked earlier in the thread is very touching, but too graphic for a child to view.

[*Lulu*]

Obviously. But the statement was "...we have no other way of seeing the words without the screen." It wasn't a problem for 2000 years, I'm sure it could be easily overcome today!

 

I suppose if all worship songs were in hymnal form that would be true.

 

If the argument is that the early church didn't use screens, then your hymnal has to go too since they didn't have those either. ;)

[*Lulu*]

I just wanted to say that I would not be okay with our church using scarymovie clips when young children are expected to be in the service. I also would be upset if they used Passion of the Christ clips during a family service. Our church utilizes many different forms of media, but movie clips during the sermon are a rarity, and never something that would be inappropriate for the youngest in attendance.

 

OP- your church either needs to provide another place for the children to be during sermons or make the sermons appropriate for the entire congregation. (And, yes, the children are part of the congregation, not just some tag alongs to be ignored. If the senior ministry staff does not understand that, you have bigger problems IMO.)

[PeacefulChaos]

Hymnals. And wrist watches.

(Man, does that mean I'm old?! :001_huh:)

:lol:

We don't have hymnals in our church. My kids saw one at my grandparents' church and were like, 'What is this? A Bible?' :lol:

As far as the countdown thing, that is relatively new. And not everyone's watch has the same time on it. Not to mention hearing the music for the countdown will tell those in the foyer that it's about time to head in without them remembering to look at their watch. And honestly, I know very few people who wear watches anyway. :tongue_smilie: I know it's possible without it - but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to have it, either.

Obviously. But the statement was "...we have no other way of seeing the words without the screen." It wasn't a problem for 2000 years, I'm sure it could be easily overcome today!

I meant in our church specifically. We don't have any way of doing it. We don't sing any of the songs in hymnals except one maybe every few months. The only alternative would be printing out and/or buying printed copies of all the worship songs for everyone. And adding new ones every month, etc. Totally not cost effective, and just not in line with what our church is or what we do.

 

The Easter video and song linked earlier in the thread is very touching, but too graphic for a child to view.

Yes, we showed it on Easter. The kids have children's church where we are - I'm not into integrated services. It just isn't our thing. So most of the people in the audience were 12+, except for those who choose to keep their kids out of the kids stuff, which IMO we are not required to cater to. :D

I wasn't trying to say the clip was child appropriate - merely responding to a statement about any clips at all being used in a service as unnecessary. Yet another case of, not necessary but still not a bad thing. :)

[Marylou]

I just wanted to say that I would not be okay with our church using scarymovie clips when young children are expected to be in the service. I also would be upset if they used Passion of the Christ clips during a family service. Our church utilizes many different forms of media, but movie clips during the sermon are a rarity, and never something that would be inappropriate for the youngest in attendance.

 

OP- your church either needs to provide another place for the children to be during sermons or make the sermons appropriate for the entire congregation. (And, yes, the children are part of the congregation, not just some tag alongs to be ignored. If the senior ministry staff does not understand that, you have bigger problems IMO.)

 

:iagree: It saddens me to think how many churches (FME, mostly in America) send their children to another place during worship time. Aren't we separated enough during the week? Are our sermons so theologicallly out-there that Mom and/or Dad can't explain the tough points to the children later around the dinner table (w/o a movie clip or power point presentation :001_huh:)?

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but this makes me think of the Israelites and their travels. Can you imagine Moses making a huge announcement as he addresses the people: Okay, all the children to the periphery, I have a word from God and it will be for the adults only! You little ones can come back when we're done here!

 

I'm not saying that churches who do "children's church" aren't true churches. I just think the members are missing out on what should be a wonderful family experience--worshipping God together. (And FTR, I'm not advocating little toddlers making loud fusses in church so that no one can hear the Word; nursery help is a huge blessing for parents who have babies/toddlers).

 

I think it's ironic that Jesus made a point to bless and welcome little ones while He was on earth and even compared believing faith to a small child, yet in our day we send the children away. I have learned so much from the questions my children ask about spiritual things. But if they were not hearing the Word, they would not have the questions.

Edited August 6, 2012 by dmmosher

[Marylou]

PeacefulChaos, I would like to know what you mean by not liking integrated services. What specifically do you dislike?

[Singingmom]

PeacefulChaos, I would like to know what you mean by not liking integrated services. What specifically do you dislike?

 

I'm not peaceful chaos, but I can give you my perspective. I have three boys: almost 6, 4, and 20 months. We actually left a church because of their lack of Children's ministry. We spent the entire church service in the back/ parking lot every single week, and were getting nothing out of it.

 

Now, we go to a church that has a children's program where they teach the Word, on the kid's level, have AWANAS mid week, where they memorize Bible verses, etc. They have worship time at each service, as well. I also love having a tiny break from having to wrestle with my very active, loud antsy boys so that I can just concentrate on the Lord for a few minutes, while they get ministered to as well. I would not like a family integrated approach for kids under about 9 or 10, probably.

 

Also, we have worship and Bible Study/devotional time at home, so there is family worship! But at this age, it lasts for just a few minutes and can be done when the boys attention span is optimal:tongue_smilie:.

 

Just my .02

[JayneJ]

I have issues when our church plays Katy Perry before service.

[Singingmom]

:iagree: It saddens me to think how many churches (FME, mostly in America) send their children to another place during worship time. Aren't we separated enough during the week? Had to laugh out loud at that one! I am never separated from my children.....not even to go to the bathroom!! :lol:

 

Are our sermons so theologicallly out-there that Mom and/or Dad can't explain the tough points to the children later around the dinner table (w/o a movie clip or power point presentation :001_huh:)?

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but this makes me think of the Israelites and their travels. Can you imagine Moses making a huge announcement as he addresses the people: Okay, all the children to the periphery, I have a word from God and it will be for the adults only! You little ones can come back when we're done here!

 

I'm not saying that churches who do "children's church" aren't true churches. I just think the members are missing out on what should be a wonderful family experience--worshipping God together. (And FTR, I'm not advocating little toddlers making loud fusses in church so that no one can hear the Word; nursery help is a huge blessing for parents who have babies/toddlers).

 

I think it's ironic that Jesus made a point to bless and welcome little ones while He was on earth and even compared believing faith to a small child, yet in our day we send the children away. I have learned so much from the questions my children ask about spiritual things. But if they were not hearing the Word, they would not have the questions.

but, it is not " sending them away from Jesus to provide Sunday School/ Children's church for them. In fact, it could be argued that providing a service just for them is doing just the opposite....bring them to Him very intentionally and specifically and meeting their spiritual needs in an age-appropriate way.

[PeacefulChaos]

It saddens me to think how many churches (FME, mostly in America) send their children to another place during worship time. Aren't we separated enough during the week? Are our sermons so theologicallly out-there that Mom and/or Dad can't explain the tough points to the children later around the dinner table (w/o a movie clip or power point presentation )?

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but this makes me think of the Israelites and their travels. Can you imagine Moses making a huge announcement as he addresses the people: Okay, all the children to the periphery, I have a word from God and it will be for the adults only! You little ones can come back when we're done here!

 

I'm not saying that churches who do "children's church" aren't true churches. I just think the members are missing out on what should be a wonderful family experience--worshipping God together. (And FTR, I'm not advocating little toddlers making loud fusses in church so that no one can hear the Word; nursery help is a huge blessing for parents who have babies/toddlers).

 

I think it's ironic that Jesus made a point to bless and welcome little ones while He was on earth and even compared believing faith to a small child, yet in our day we send the children away. I have learned so much from the questions my children ask about spiritual things. But if they were not hearing the Word, they would not have the questions.

 

PeacefulChaos, I would like to know what you mean by not liking integrated services. What specifically do you dislike?

Ok... well, here goes.

I'm going to start by saying that I don't think there is one right way to do it for every family or every church. My FIL is a preacher at a church that has family integrated services (no care available for children whatsoever) and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. There are children's ministries that run the gamut from lots of lights, lots of technical stuff (usually in churches that do the same) to simple Bible story and craft minus all the technical stuff. I don't think that one of these is necessarily more effective or better than the other. Because of our family situation (with the ILs), I've had to think a lot about my position on this and determine how I feel about the whole thing. :)

Anyway, just wanted to get that out of the way so that no one reading this would read it as a put-down of the way they choose to do things. Just my own personal experience, and my own personal preferences. (And DH's too, obviously)

I quoted both of your posts so that I could tell my perspective on some of the things in your first one, as well. I bolded the one or two things I'm speaking of... I actually feel as though we are always with our kids during the week. Not that I mind, but though we are at this time a sort of busy family, our kids are still at ages where we can do most things together. We all go to soccer games, etc. As they get older, I do expect that it will get busier and we will see less of them - at that point I may feel differently.

As far as the sermons themselves, I don't think that in most cases it would be difficult for a mom or dad to explain things to the kids later on. I do think, however, that either some of those conversations could be uncomfortable - or something that the parent just wasn't ready to discuss yet (there are a few things here I can think of - adultery, p*rnography, etc - that could be mentioned briefly in a sermon). This in and of itself isn't a HUGE deal, but could be a possible deterrent for some.

Neither one of these things would be reason enough alone for me to not take my kid in with me to services. They are just small, maybe even unimportant, things that I thought of when reading your first post. :)

 

Now, for me personally... I like children's church for several reasons.

As a kid, I remember going to children's church until we moved to another state when I was 9. It was one of those latter ministries I spoke of (of course, this was in the 90s, so most were!) with the Bible story and craft and memorizing Scripture for a prize out of the box. I remember it well, and I enjoyed it a lot. When we moved out of state, our new church's children's ministry only went up to age 9. No one wants to be the 9 year old starting children's church at the oldest age, especially when the next oldest kid was a boy of about 7. ;) So I sat in service with my grandparents. I don't remember any of it. I sat, doodled on a little notepad I kept in my purse, and ate smarties or sweet tarts. I occasionally dozed off on my grandma's shoulder (be kind, please - I was a kid. I probably wouldn't allow this of my children at that age, but things have changed a lot, and I think parenting has changed a lot). When I made friends with another girl at church, I occasionally sat with her and her mom - and did the same thing. ;) I would say I was probably 11 or 12 when I started paying more attention in service - right around the time that most children's ministries end (ours ends with 6th grade and then the kids are all just in the regular service.)

At our church, we are a very technical church (as is probably already obvious by my previous posts lol). We have stage lights, we have a worship team, we have screens, we run videos sometimes, we have annoying backgrounds behind the lyrics of our songs (seriously, there is one of rapids. RAPIDS. I don't mind technical type stuff, but how the heck are we supposed to focus on the words of the song and worshipping with rapids in the background?! :lol: ) - so our children's church is similar. We have lights, a big screen, and loud music. Do I think it's all necessary? No. It's just one of various ways to have a successful children's ministry.

My kids have Sunday School for an hour before service (age 3+) and children's church during the service (1st grade+... younger kids are split into nursery/under 2, 2 year old class, 3 year old class, and Pre-K/K class). All of them do a Bible story on their level, etc. In Children's church the kids have sword drills (races to find particular Bible verses in their Bibles), their own worship, a sermon, and an activity or craft of some sort. Our church runs long (10:30-12:30/1), so usually at the end there is a movie on when we go to pick them up. The kids are playing, sitting and talking, whatever. I don't mind this.

My kids are becoming quite well versed in what Scripture says. I don't know that it's any better or worse than any other way of doing things - but I certainly have seen nothing to show that we're missing out on anything. I feel that the kids are learning the important things in a way that is relevant to them, which is the main reason that I'm pro-children's church. If we were to learn the same thing one week, both in our service and the children's church, I do think that they would understand the point better in children's church because it is presented in a way that is more relevant.

Some people assume (IRL people) that children's church = running around and playing games with very little learning about God or the Bible, leading to the kids having a hard time adjusting to regular services. I have not seen this personally. The kids have come upstairs and done well. Have I seen kids act up? Of course. But many times, the kids acting up are just as likely to be 17 as 13. :tongue_smilie: Often times, more so. In our church, there are many kids who do not sit with their parents at all as teenagers. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I don't mind it if my kids don't sit with me when they are teenagers (though I will probably make them for a while after leaving children's church, to ensure that they are capable of acting responsibly in church) - and I will definitely be keeping an eye on them, and if they act up they'll be back in the pew with Mom. ;) They'll be required to sit somewhere I can see them during the sermon (during worship is kind of moot, since I'm on stage half the time and either can see everyone because of my vantage point or can't see anyone because of the stage lights).

Sadly, many of the people in our church who choose to keep their children with them do so with what seem to me to be strange motives - they don't trust the children's ministry volunteers (all of whom are operating under strict procedures, background checks, etc), they think all the kids do is run around and play, etc. What they choose to do may not make sense to me, but I don't mind it... unless the kid ends up playing in the balcony stairwell halfway through the sermon with no supervision (5 year old, and yes, this happened) or I'm sitting behind a kid watching him play a game on the iPad the whole time. :( When people don't send their kids to children's church I would at least hope they would be trying to help their child get something out of the regular service, as you guys (that I've met here) do.

 

Anyway, that turned really long - sorry about that! I may have even forgotten something, lol...

[PeacefulChaos]

I have issues when our church plays Katy Perry before service.

 

Oh my goodness - do they really?!

[*Lulu*]

I just wanted to come back and add that I have been in a lot of different churches in a lot of different parts of the country over the years, (I spent several years with a traveling ministry group), and I have seen children treated as something other than part of the congregation at churches with separate children's services and churches where the children stay in service with the adults. It is not really about the structure or the programs, it is about the attitude of the people. You would be surprised how often people lose sight of that though. The message of Christ isn't about programs, it is about people. Worship style, small groups vs Sunday School vs Bible studies, activites offered or not are not individually indicative of the heart of a church. When you peel it all away a church either seeks to serve with the heart of Christ or it doesn't.

 

IMO any church not attending to the spiritual needs of the children in thier congregation is not serving with the heart of Christ. The location of the children during Sunday service is irrelevant in those situations.