Ack!! I just bought a bunch of Winter Promise stuff, then heard "no re-sell"...

[Julie in CA]

I bought a *lot* of stuff, figuring that after I reviewed the materials, I would either decide to use it, or would sell it to someone else if I decided it just wasn't for us.

 

Now I'm wondering if I should just cancel my order...

What do you all do about this? Just "wing it" and assume it'll be the right thing from the samples you see on the website?

[RebeccaC]

It is WP's request that your do not resale it is not legally binding. I just sold my S&S, TM, Timeline, and another WP exclusive book, that we had just finished up here on the boards. I think WP made that request because of how it affect their sales. It was easier for them to sell as a package but when it is resold and folks just come to them for consumables it was slowing down their warehouse and they did not have the space to store all the consumables, etc... At least that was my understanding of their explanation from a over a year and half ago.

 

Rebecca

[chiguirre]

If you're not sure this is the curriculum for you, I'd cancel the order. I say this as someone who does like WP and is going to use it this year. Not only is there no resell but there is a hefty restocking fee if you don't buy a whole program. I personally find these policies a serious downside to WP, but hey, it's their business they can make whatever rules they want.

[melissel]

It is WP's request that your do not resale it is not legally binding. I just sold my S&S, TM, Timeline, and another WP exclusive book, that we had just finished up here on the boards. I think WP made that request because of how it affect their sales. It was easier for them to sell as a package but when it is resold and folks just come to them for consumables it was slowing down their warehouse and they did not have the space to store all the consumables, etc... At least that was my understanding of their explanation from a over a year and half ago.

 

Rebecca

 

I agree with this. I also didn't find out about the no-resale "policy" until after I purchased and received my materials. There was no mention of the policy made on any of the pages I looked at, and I did quite a bit of research on their site. It wasn't until later, when I heard someone here mention it, that I went looking for it and found it on a page I would never have looked at otherwise. I felt a little like I'd had one put over on me :glare:

 

I do understand their request, but I'm sure that every single publisher in the market wishes that their books would not be resold.

[Julie in CA]

If it's a request, but not legally binding, here's what I look at as a reasonable thing for me to do.

 

Since there was no mention at purchase of either a hefty restocking fee or the fact that they'd like it not to be re-sold, here's what I think seems fair (I may be wrong, and please don't slam me if you disagree, just gently remind me that my ethics are slipping :tongue_smilie:).

 

I will get the materials and probably love them and use them all. If I get them and don't think it's a good fit for my family, I will re-sell them, as long as we have *used no part of them.* If we use them in any way, I will consider them mine forever :D

 

It really is a battle for me, because I'm pretty sure the curriculum will enrich my dc's year, and by extension their life. At the same time, I really wish that I could take a stand against their cr*ppy policy (and trust me, using that word is as profane as I get, so it's a big deal to me. I'm *really* upset.)

 

I think not re-selling it after I've intellectually "used" it is fair.

I think not being able to sell it to someone who'd get use out of it if I won't be using it at all is ridiculous.

[mama25angels]

If it's a request, but not legally binding, here's what I look at as a reasonable thing for me to do.

 

Since there was no mention at purchase of either a hefty restocking fee or the fact that they'd like it not to be re-sold, here's what I think seems fair (I may be wrong, and please don't slam me if you disagree, just gently remind me that my ethics are slipping :tongue_smilie:).

 

I will get the materials and probably love them and use them all. If I get them and don't think it's a good fit for my family, I will re-sell them, as long as we have *used no part of them.* If we use them in any way, I will consider them mine forever :D

 

It really is a battle for me, because I'm pretty sure the curriculum will enrich my dc's year, and by extension their life. At the same time, I really wish that I could take a stand against their cr*ppy policy (and trust me, using that word is as profane as I get, so it's a big deal to me. I'm *really* upset.)

 

I think not re-selling it after I've intellectually "used" it is fair.

I think not being able to sell it to someone who'd get use out of it if I won't be using it at all is ridiculous.

 

 

I think that's fair, but then again my ethics may not be what they should be either :lol:

[Quiver0f10]

It's honestly one reason why we didn't even really consider them. I would cancel, it's too much $ to lose out on.

[RebeccaC]

Well, if they really did not want it to be resold then they should put it on a CD ROM and licence it like software is licenced. I have several Amada Bennett curriculum units on CD Roms that I am not selling because it is illegal.

 

Their request is to make their life easier. However all of dh's last paycheck went to our mortgage payment with nothing left for groceries so to make life easier for my boys I sold WP stuff that I bought from them just like I sold all kinds of other used books. I did not buy a package from WP just the Exclusives. So it is OK if you feel that way but there may come a time when WP's request to make their life easier is something you may want to reconsider to make your life easier kwim :001_smile:

 

I really kind of felt that their request was rude in a way. They received good money for their product, and then they want to tell folks what they can do with what they now own. Other than copyright once WP sells a TM or any other exclusive they own no part of it and should not make any kind of request about what happens after they get their money other than refunds. Just another view and not a flame :)

[Book Crazy]

I believe that they can not tell you that you can not re-sell their stuff.

 

There is something called "Doctrine of First Sale"

 

It basically says that

 

that a copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy end once that copy is sold, as long as no additional copies are made.

[BlessedMom]

Personally I would just cancel the order.

[starlashine]

If you want to take a stand on what I also feel is a bad and rude policy, I would personally cancel the order. They want to be rude, they want to tell me how I can use things that I paid hard earned money for, they don't get my business. If they lose enough business, they'll hire more workers to deal with what happens when people resell. I would cancel over the phone and tell them that I find the no resell policy rude and unreasonable, and that it is the reason for my cancellation. Just my .02. Besides, they are not the only people with programs like that.

[Susie in MS]

They are not the only ones making that request, and I, too, feel that it is rude and unreasonable. There are two sides to the issue and they are only concerned with what effects them. I bought Learning Adventures and used it. It is not consumable. When I was finished with it was I supposed to let it turn yellow and rot with age or use it for fire starter? The fact that folks like myself MUST resale used books to be able to buy next years curriculum AND that the used market makes it possible for us to buy what we need makes it ridiculous to not sell. WP is SUCH an expensive program that it is totally unfair for them to make this request.

 

Just think if ABeka, Rod and Staff, BJU, etc made this request. Yes, the other companies are mom and pop, but if they have a good thing they will stay in business despite the used market competition.

[manylilblessings]

The PP makes an excellent point, which is that it's not an environmentally friendly policy either. Unless, I suppose, they prefer that someone give their program away, but that would cut into their business as well.

 

Those of you who said that there are other companies that have this policy... could you tell me who they are? I was completely unaware of this policy being practiced in the homeschool realm.

[melissel]

The PP makes an excellent point, which is that it's not an environmentally friendly policy either. Unless, I suppose, they prefer that someone give their program away, but that would cut into their business as well.

 

Those of you who said that there are other companies that have this policy... could you tell me who they are? I was completely unaware of this policy being practiced in the homeschool realm.

 

Calvert has a similar policy, but I believe theirs is backed up by a legal contract. I've been told they police eBay and have listings pulled, though I personally bought a full Calvert K program on eBay (before I even knew about the policy).

[Susie in MS]

Learning Adventures has a paragraph in the front of their guides that request you do not resale.

[hillfarm]

I will never purchase a homeschool product that attempts to browbeat or guilt trip me into allowing them to dictate what I do with their product when I am done with it. I would cancel at once and be sure they know why.

 

A workman is worthy of his hire, but he is not worthy of controlling the fruits of his labor in perpetuity after they have been purchased. I think WP and the others think a bit too highly of themselves and their materials. I suspect their grasping, greedy ways will cost their company much more than they will save. And I, for one, have had no trouble finding plenty of other alternatives.

[abbeyej]

Calvert has a similar policy, but I believe theirs is backed up by a legal contract. I've been told they police eBay and have listings pulled, though I personally bought a full Calvert K program on eBay (before I even knew about the policy).

 

Calvert's policy only applies to Teacher's Manuals, and it works because the manuals are technically *leased* for use with a particular child. So if you order Calvert 5 to use with little Johnny, you can resell all the Calvert 5 materials except the Teacher's Manuals which are only for use with Johnny -- not his little sister Mary or anyone else.

[Donna A.]

I will never purchase a homeschool product that attempts to browbeat or guilt trip me into allowing them to dictate what I do with their product when I am done with it. I would cancel at once and be sure they know why.

 

A workman is worthy of his hire, but he is not worthy of controlling the fruits of his labor in perpetuity after they have been purchased. I think WP and the others think a bit too highly of themselves and their materials. I suspect their grasping, greedy ways will cost their company much more than they will save. And I, for one, have had no trouble finding plenty of other alternatives.

 

Abeka and BJU do this in a roundabout way, by frequently updating/revising their materials, thereby "forcing" users to buy new TMs and other go-alongs, even within the same family if much time has passed.

 

Ruth Beechick has an interesting chapter on this topic in "The Language Wars". (Though she kindly does not mention any publishers' names.)

[Donna A.]

Calvert's policy only applies to Teacher's Manuals, and it works because the manuals are technically *leased* for use with a particular child. So if you order Calvert 5 to use with little Johnny, you can resell all the Calvert 5 materials except the Teacher's Manuals which are only for use with Johnny -- not his little sister Mary or anyone else.

 

But see, that's not right, either. Not to even be able to use the same TM within the same family!

[clarkacademy]

When you buy a set from Winterpromise theme or whatever they give you the teacher manual free. You only pay for that maual when you buy seperate. I use WP I don't agree with the policy but I don't think they are horrible people either. There are other companies out there for sure but no there is no other Winterpromise.

[elegantlion]

Abeka and BJU do this in a roundabout way, by frequently updating/revising their materials, thereby "forcing" users to buy new TMs and other go-alongs, even within the same family if much time has passed.

 

Ruth Beechick has an interesting chapter on this topic in "The Language Wars". (Though she kindly does not mention any publishers' names.)

 

 

That was one of the issues I had with Abeka. I have one ds and fortunately had been able to get most of my material used. However, I have material that is two years and outdated. I had one homeschool store almost moan when I asked if they purchased Abeka material.

 

That was one of the reasons I quit using Abeka. After spending hundreds of dollars I should be able to do more than practically give the books away.

[Mesa]

I'm into week 3 of AS1 and I've come across a few mistakes already. I'm not sold on WP. The mistakes are easy.. one was spelling "navajo" as "navaho" and that bugged me big time. How can I expect my kids to spell it correctly if their curriculum doesnt. This weeks was an assigned reading... it was the same pages as last week and now I'm not sure if we are missing something to read now or not?

I'd probably just send it back. I also ordered over 2 months ago and I'm still waiting on the craft kit and a book.....

[TracyR]

Well its the same as Calvert and Seton . They ask that their TM are not sold . But to me if someone else can benefit from this curriculum and they can't afford to pay full price then , whatever . Sorry , its rough times and families shouldn't chose wether to buy expensive books or feed their children . You have to do what you have to do . I mean why would I want to throw a perfectly good teacher's manual away when someone else can use it ? Sorry , I believe in recycling and that is wasting a valuable natural resource . I thought from my understanding that it was their Teacher Manuals ( or whatever they call them ) they don't want resold . They can't prevent you from selling any consumables or reading material that isn't what they created themselves .

[Melissa in CA]

OK, this is going to sound TERRIBLE and I know it...but when I purchase a curriculum, I consider it mine. I paid A LOT of money for it, all of it. I did not just pay for the use of it, I paid to downright OWN it thankyouverymuch! So, apart from copying it for some kind of money making scheme, I feel I can do what I want with it. If I want to sell it when I am done with it, I sell it.

 

Perhaps I should feel guilty about that...but I just don't. :confused: Maybe my guilt radar is on the fritz...:lol:

 

Now having said that, one thought I had about their particular policy is that their "exclusives" are basically a packet of paper stuffs (notebooking pages, timeline figures, etc.) that could very easily be copied and REPEATEDLY sold, and sold, and sold...yes, even their TM. This form of 'reselling' could most definitely cause the company some grief. :001_huh:

 

One would go through an awful lot of ink and paper though...not sure it would be much of a money-maker (in case ya'll were tempted to give it a try. ;)) :lol:

[RebeccaC]

OK, this is going to sound TERRIBLE and I know it...but when I purchase a curriculum, I consider it mine. I paid A LOT of money for it, all of it. I did not just pay for the use of it, I paid to downright OWN it thankyouverymuch! So, apart from copying it for some kind of money making scheme, I feel I can do what I want with it. If I want to sell it when I am done with it, I sell it.

 

Perhaps I should feel guilty about that...but I just don't. :confused: Maybe my guilt radar is on the fritz...:lol:

 

Now having said that, one thought I had about their particular policy is that their "exclusives" are basically a packet of paper stuffs (notebooking pages, timeline figures, etc.) that could very easily be copied and REPEATEDLY sold, and sold, and sold...yes, even their TM. This form of 'reselling' could most definitely cause the company some grief. :001_huh:

 

One would go through an awful lot of ink and paper though...not sure it would be much of a money-maker (in case ya'll were tempted to give it a try. ;)) :lol:

 

But again the way for them to stop the reselling of any of their exclusive items is to put it on a CD rom disk as a PDF file and licence it. Of course that would mean the buyer would have to print a lot but they would know that up front. This all goes back to what the law says and it says that the TM and the WP written history book for S&S are owned by the person who bought them not the creator of the material. WP knows this and that is why they "request" that the items not be resold. They know that if they tried to make folks not resell they would be in trouble. The know they have no legal leg to stand on and so they request and I just said request denied :001_smile:

[SnowWhite]

I'm into week 3 of AS1 and I've come across a few mistakes already. I'm not sold on WP. The mistakes are easy.. one was spelling "navajo" as "navaho" and that bugged me big time. How can I expect my kids to spell it correctly if their curriculum doesnt. ...

 

Actually, Navaho is an accepted alternate spelling to Navajo. (I checked the dictionary).

 

Your craft kit will be well worth the wait.

 

I agree that consumable materials that haven't been consumed should be resellable (except it bugs me that folks use their handy dandy copy machine and then sell their originals... there are lots of pirates in them thar seas).

 

I disagree that the IG resale request is unreasonable. Many, many of these are given away, and those that are not are cheaper than MFW manuals and WAY cheaper than TOG manuals. The issue of dead internet links and OOP books comes up ALL THE TIME on the forums and yahoo group, and I'm sure WP is hearing from those who bought the 2006 IGs (which were released for resale, with the understanding that the customer support did not go along with the outdated manual) even more than those of us on the internet are.

 

I bought the AS1 manual LAST fall, thinking my Animals and Their Worlds study could probably use some supplementation by the time I got in to the swing of things and procured my literature second-hand, via paperbackswap, bookmooch and half.com. I was wrong. AW was a-plenty for my advanced first grader for the year. When the new AS1 was released this year I opted to update and buy the new Instructor Guide (which I was able to do for half price). I am so glad that I did. I wouldn't want *anyone* to do me the "favor" of selling me a second hand WP manual and I won't do anyone that kind of favor, either. Once they're out of date, it's time to buy a new one.

 

I am 100% on board with the idea that WP needs to put their IG on a computer disk and sell it as a "program" with a user license. It could even be "customizable" then, with blank grids for users to add in their own math program or such like.

[Omma]

Just wanted to comment on the fact that maybe I'm showing my age, but I MUCH prefer to have a hard copy of an IG than a CD in which I have to print out the material myself.

 

Fortunately, all the IG's I have had up to now are 2006 or older editions, so I haven't had to grapple with the new reality yet. I really don't mind older copies, so everything has worked out well so far.

 

You all have gotten me thinking, though! I just now realized that I probably won't be able to find a used copy of the newer CAtW when I get around to wanting one! Boo Hoo!!!

 

Brenda

[SnowWhite]

Oh, Brenda, I didn't mean they shouldn't also send along a *complimentary* printed copy. The Time Travelers CD is available all printed out for AC1, so I doubt they'd ever stop sending a printed copy. But a CD is a low cost item if it makes their resale policy legit. (AND I'd love to be able to tweak without having to scan the IG in to my computer, ;))

[SnowWhite]

I thought from my understanding that it was their Teacher Manuals ( or whatever they call them ) they don't want resold . They can't prevent you from selling any consumables or reading material that isn't what they created themselves .

 

You're absolutely right, and they don't try. That is a common misconception. There are even WinterPromise developed items (like the Children of Many Lands text) which *are* allowed and encouraged for resale.

 

Julie, I think your post about what would be fair and ethical is great.

[EricaB]

I am married to an author that writes and reviews materials. First, our family depends on the sale of our work, just as your family depends on how ever you acquire your income. Furthermore, when the FedEx truck pulls up with a box of brand spankin' new materials ready for review, we don't turn around and sell it for our own profit. The money should go to the people that spent hours of THEIR time writing the material NOT to us that merely received a reviewers copy. I could say that we are doing them a favor by promoting their work, but that would still be unethical.

 

I guess it all depends on individual priorities, but I would like to encourage everyone to honor the many companies, not just WP as already stated, that request this of their consumers. It is just the right thing to do.

 

 

Respectfully yours,

Erica

[PeterPan]

Just as an observation, if you bought several different IG's or cores, you might have considered buying just one, getting a feel for how they do things, then buying more if the first seems to fit you.

 

I don't know how often Abeka updates their stuff, but BJU tries to space them out reasonably and has significant changes when the upgrades are made. They also keep workbooks for the old editions in print another two years after each change so users can continue to use what they have. It's not just homeschoolers that have to deal with this, schools do too!

[Melissa in CA]

I am married to an author that writes and reviews materials. First, our family depends on the sale of our work, just as your family depends on how ever you acquire your income. Furthermore, when the FedEx truck pulls up with a box of brand spankin' new materials ready for review, we don't turn around and sell it for our own profit. The money should go to the people that spent hours of THEIR time writing the material NOT to us that merely received a reviewers copy. I could say that we are doing them a favor by promoting their work, but that would still be unethical.

 

I guess it all depends on individual priorities, but I would like to encourage everyone to honor the many companies, not just WP as already stated, that request this of their consumers. It is just the right thing to do.

 

 

Respectfully yours,

Erica

 

Erica, I am a tad confused. My understanding is that your dh writes, but also reviews other writer's work. Do I have that right? If so, I am assuming he is getting paid to not only write, but review. I personally don't see how your situation applies here. :confused:

 

We are talking about the purchase of school curriculum and whether with our purchase we have the right to resell it at a used price. WE are not getting paid to use/review the curriculum...we have purchased it and in doing so, it is now ours. The books your dh reviews do not belong to him so OF COURSE it would be highly unethical for you to sell them for your own profit. :confused: Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding your post, if so feel free to set me straight. ;)

[Omma]

Oh, Brenda, I didn't mean they shouldn't also send along a *complimentary* printed copy. The Time Travelers CD is available all printed out for AC1, so I doubt they'd ever stop sending a printed copy. But a CD is a low cost item if it makes their resale policy legit. (AND I'd love to be able to tweak without having to scan the IG in to my computer, ;))

 

Oh, phew... I'm glad they'd still likely keep the printed copies, too! Thanks for the info, Snow White! And I could see how having a CD would be very helpful for any computer tweaking that you wanted to do.

 

Brenda

[Melissa in CA]

But to me if someone else can benefit from this curriculum and they can't afford to pay full price then , whatever . Sorry , its rough times and families shouldn't chose wether to buy expensive books or feed their children . You have to do what you have to do . I mean why would I want to throw a perfectly good teacher's manual away when someone else can use it ? Sorry , I believe in recycling and that is wasting a valuable natural resource.

 

:iagree:

What I don't understand about many of these policies, is that they don't want us to sell their items after we are done with them, but don't seem to have a problem with us giving them away? :001_huh: They cannot honestly expect us to store them for years on end, or toss them in the trash!!??

 

Shoot, if I wasn't allowed to resell my curriculum I wouldn't have the money to buy more...thereby keeping these companies in business. And some people don't have the money to buy new and have to purchase used curriculum.

 

Let me try to understand their reasoning:

 

*Saving it keeps it unavailable to used shoppers. (Ok, I can see how they would definitely prefer this option making sure everyone HAS to buy new)

 

*Destroying it keeps it unavailable to used shoppers. (Another option they would no doubt prefer...again making sure everyone has to buy new)

 

*Giving it away is keeping someone from buying new. (Not good for the company, yet I don't see them requesting we not give it away?? We are just not to sell it...:001_huh:)

 

My reasoning:

*Selling it helps me afford to buy the next set of new curriculum, thereby benefiting the company and a family in need. (win, win for all involved! :D)

 

I like my reasoning better...:lol:

[EricaB]

I understand.

 

When my DH writes, regardless if it is a review of another author or his own material, it is like someone taking food off of our table when they turn around and sell it to someone else. We do sell sight licenses to accommodate schools, and keep our prices reasonable to individual teachers, just as other educational publishing organizations. In both cases, it would be wrong to resell our materials. Since we keep close contact with our clients through clinics and seminars, we are not aware of this happening as of yet. We have also given our materials away to schools to enhance their program that can't afford it, and again, it would be wrong of them to resell. This explains the comment about my DH review copies and other comments of how WP gives their IG with purchase of the package.

 

Bottom line: There is a lot of time and love that goes into our materials, and we perfect them as though we are using them, or have used them to teach our own children (as is the case for several HS small companies). I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I was a little shocked to see that so many people would be willing to go against the request of a publisher not to resell their materials for various reasons. I have heard many times that WP changes their curriculum to make it better. This is to benefit you and I am sure it is frustrating to the company when the get inquires concerning out-of-date material. I would feel the same way if we found a better way to present our material and changed it for the good of the program. I feel like we could talk this in circles, so I will end with that.

 

I am sorry to have posted, but this is a sensitive issue with us considering writing is a way of life for us. Resale only hurts us as it does many other companies.

 

Regards,

Erica

[LadyAberlin]

The resale policy is the reason I have chosen not to purchase from Winter Promise and thank goodness the year I purchased Ready to Learn they still allowed resale.

[jg_puppy]

:iagree:

 

*Giving it away is keeping someone from buying new. (Not good for the company, yet I don't see them requesting we not give it away?? We are just not to sell it...:001_huh:)

 

 

Actually in the WP policy they do request you not give it away either. I don't see it on their webpage, but it is on the first page of the guide.

 

Jan

[phathui5]

Well its the same as Calvert and Seton . They ask that their TM are not sold . But to me if someone else can benefit from this curriculum and they can't afford to pay full price then , whatever . Sorry , its rough times and families shouldn't chose wether to buy expensive books or feed their children . You have to do what you have to do . I mean why would I want to throw a perfectly good teacher's manual away when someone else can use it ? Sorry , I believe in recycling and that is wasting a valuable natural resource . I thought from my understanding that it was their Teacher Manuals ( or whatever they call them ) they don't want resold . They can't prevent you from selling any consumables or reading material that isn't what they created themselves .

 

Calvert does actually offer financial assistance.

[Julie]

What an interesting thread..........I have a little different take on it. I e often buy used to give something a trail run to see if I am willing to shell out full price for it. Apologia for instance, I bought Astronomy used and have since purchased all of the others new. I would not have purchased new had I not had the chance to see what a great product it was.

 

Respectfully,

[TracyR]

Calvert does actually offer financial assistance.

 

They do offer financial assistance . But its a joke. I looked into it a while back and you don't get much as far as assistance goes . So if your a family like us who has one income , and has a child with special medical needs that sucks you of every penny you own , Calvert's financial assitance is a joke . We are using Calvert through a cyber because we couldn't even afford Calvert's financial assitance . Luckily we are allowed to sell these books as our cyber says they are ours and our tax money pays for them so we are allowed to do what we please with these books . So I sell them super cheap so that I can get something for foreign language class for my girls because our cyber doesn't offer a very good alternative , and someone else benefits having Calvert in their home which they could never afford even financial assistance wise .

[Johanna]

Well, just wanted to add my .01 cent ;)

 

I dont know what i feel about the resale policy...what they are asking of the buyer. Except that I feel when i purchased a curriculum, Unless I sign a binding legal contract not to resell then I am not going to feel guilty about reselling. SOrry WP! Maybe I would feel different if i were the provider....well, I probably would.

 

But, Here is the thing that REALLY REALLY urks me :angry:

I dont like it when I am given a guilt trip by the curriculum developer (wont name any names) about not purchasing from their exclusive site. I mean really! If you dont want your customers to go to discounted places like RR and cbd .....then dont sell to them for customers to buy from them! It is a mixed message in my opinion. This is why i have a little more respect for WP...because they dont seem hypocrytical in that sence. You can only get their things from them. But, they are soooo pricey....so, to me it is glorious when you can find a guide book used! I dont feel that I am breaking a law. Exclusive or not, it is a product for sale....and once it is owned by the buyer....it is yours to do with it as you please (except breaking the law as is the case with reproducing).

SO, if you can convince me that it is legally binding request, then i see the point of adhering to it....otherwise...nope,sorry!:D

[Johanna]

Actually in the WP policy they do request you not give it away either. I don't see it on their webpage, but it is on the first page of the guide.

 

Jan

 

Oh, that is just ridiculous!!:ohmy:

Come on.....thats getting a bit greedy! What about charitable contributions to families in need!

DO they really ask that?? I am so surprised!

[Heather in VA]

The PP makes an excellent point, which is that it's not an environmentally friendly policy either. Unless, I suppose, they prefer that someone give their program away, but that would cut into their business as well.

 

Those of you who said that there are other companies that have this policy... could you tell me who they are? I was completely unaware of this policy being practiced in the homeschool realm.

 

What's really scary is that their policy states you can't give it away either. But as many have said, they can ask but they can't legally hold you to it.

 

Heather

[Heather in VA]

oops sorry I didnt see the post above.

 

WP has a nice product but deplorable business practices.

 

Heather

[RebeccaC]

I understand.

 

When my DH writes, regardless if it is a review of another author or his own material, it is like someone taking food off of our table when they turn around and sell it to someone else. We do sell sight licenses to accommodate schools, and keep our prices reasonable to individual teachers, just as other educational publishing organizations. In both cases, it would be wrong to resell our materials. Since we keep close contact with our clients through clinics and seminars, we are not aware of this happening as of yet. We have also given our materials away to schools to enhance their program that can't afford it, and again, it would be wrong of them to resell. This explains the comment about my DH review copies and other comments of how WP gives their IG with purchase of the package.

 

Bottom line: There is a lot of time and love that goes into our materials, and we perfect them as though we are using them, or have used them to teach our own children (as is the case for several HS small companies). I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I was a little shocked to see that so many people would be willing to go against the request of a publisher not to resell their materials for various reasons. I have heard many times that WP changes their curriculum to make it better. This is to benefit you and I am sure it is frustrating to the company when the get inquires concerning out-of-date material. I would feel the same way if we found a better way to present our material and changed it for the good of the program. I feel like we could talk this in circles, so I will end with that.

 

I am sorry to have posted, but this is a sensitive issue with us considering writing is a way of life for us. Resale only hurts us as it does many other companies.

 

Regards,

Erica

 

 

Following your logic, if I made my living sewing clothing and put a lot of love in the sewing and then sold you a dress for your dd, you would find it unethical to either sell or give away the dress once your dd out grew the dress. Following that logic everything sold at a garage sale is unethical because the original creator is not getting a kick back from the used goods? Everything given to Good Will is unethical because folks should only buy new from the original creator of any goods because that creator, who was already once paid for the goods, needs to feed his kids too.

 

Sorry it does not flush here and my dad made his living in part writing college textbooks. Does not flush with the laws on the books in this country either. Once it has been bought and paid for it is owned by the purchaser who has the right to dispose of it as they see fit. There is nothing unethical about selling something that was paid in full for. WP's gripe was it caused them more work not so much that they lost money :glare:

[Heather in VA]

Following your logic, if I made my living sewing clothing and put a lot of love in the sewing and then sold you a dress for your dd, you would find it unethical to either sell or give away the dress once your dd out grew the dress. Following that logic everything sold at a garage sale is unethical because the original creator is not getting a kick back from the used goods? Everything given to Good Will is unethical because folks should only buy new from the original creator of any goods because that creator, who was already once paid for the goods, needs to feed his kids too.

 

Sorry it does not flush here and my dad made his living in part writing college textbooks. Does not flush with the laws on the books in this country either. Once it has been bought and paid for it is owned by the purchaser who has the right to dispose of it as they see fit. There is nothing unethical about selling something that was paid in full for. WP's gripe was it caused them more work not so much that they lost money :glare:

 

 

I agree. Not only doesn't it make sense but as you say, it's not backed up by the law. Now do I think someone who buys a used TM gets any special upgrade considerations (such as Sonlight who sells upgraded TMs to the original purchaser at a serious discount)? Of course not. But when I own something, I own it. If I want to sell it, burn it, give it away, use it as toilet paper - that's my choice.

 

I sell things. I do not make copies so I can sell them as 'new'. I don't violate copyright laws by making copies of workbooks or other consumables. I do sell non-consumable things that I paid my money for. I like WP products but while they might not want me to resell my stuff. I have and I will. If someday the law changes and you can tell someone they can't sell something that belongs to them - I'll stop buying from WP.

 

Heather

[Donna A.]

Following your logic, if I made my living sewing clothing and put a lot of love in the sewing and then sold you a dress for your dd, you would find it unethical to either sell or give away the dress once your dd out grew the dress. Following that logic everything sold at a garage sale is unethical because the original creator is not getting a kick back from the used goods? Everything given to Good Will is unethical because folks should only buy new from the original creator of any goods because that creator, who was already once paid for the goods, needs to feed his kids too.

 

Sorry it does not flush here and my dad made his living in part writing college textbooks. Does not flush with the laws on the books in this country either. Once it has been bought and paid for it is owned by the purchaser who has the right to dispose of it as they see fit. There is nothing unethical about selling something that was paid in full for. WP's gripe was it caused them more work not so much that they lost money :glare:

 

I was thinking along these lines, too. We'd have to shut down entire BUSINESSES that sell used goods, including eBay, Amazon, paperbackbookswap.com and many more.

 

Furthermore, when I sell used goods, I am NOT making any profit.... I sell it at a loss. ALWAYS. So the author/publisher of that material isn't the only one losing money because people out there are buying used goods rather than being forced to buy new.... we all are.

[RebeccaC]

When the new AS1 was released this year I opted to update and buy the new Instructor Guide (which I was able to do for half price). I am so glad that I did. I wouldn't want *anyone* to do me the "favor" of selling me a second hand WP manual and I won't do anyone that kind of favor, either. Once they're out of date, it's time to buy a new one.

 

 

 

 

Well there is a whole lot more than just web links to a WP TM at least with Sea & Sky. When I got it brand new a good portion of the links were already dead. There was only one at the most and sometimes two links per week a very small part of S&S. So I am not sure I buy the out of date logic.

 

My TM had quite a few mistakes as in reading for this week was the same as last week or the reading for the OLG did not match the reading in the regular TM , ect....

 

There are several reasons why I will not buy from WP again, one of them is their resale request and mistakes in their TM is another and there are more..... I bought S&S because there is not another program close to on the hs market. WP is Ala Sonlight with activity guides in my opinion. The books might be fewer and not to the same maturity advancement as Sonlight but after owning both programs it is easy to see that WP is a Sonlight morph. We did very few of the hands on projects.

 

I actually really prefer TWTM and plan on following it with a few twists to fit the fact that my boys are visual spatial thinker learners. What would it be like if Susan asked that we not resell or give away SOW or the WTM........

I would imagine that a lot of folks get hook on TWTM method by buying used first or if they are lucky to live where their public library has a hs resource room borrow it from the Library and then get hooked.

 

Here in IL there is a small town named Johnsburg, that has quite a large collection in a special room of all kinds of hs curriculum and equipment that can be borrowed for 6 weeks or more if there is no waiting list. All you need is an IL state ID or drivers licence and a library card at an IL public library. Knew a mom who used konos for a school year for free by borrowing it from Johnsburg not to mention IEW. Johnsburg has a hs mom who write grants and gets a nice budget each year to buy curriculum new for the library resource room. I have in the past donated to the hs room in this library books and curriculum that I bought new and then could not use.

 

Wonder how WP would feel if some of their curriculum ended up in a public library would they request that their TM and the history book they wrote for S&S not be borrowed as well as not resold or given away? I really think that their request makes them look petty but that is my opinion which may or may not be worth two cents :001_smile:

[Johanna]

I would think that they would just need to get over it:tongue_smilie:. There are many families who JUST cant afford these pricey curriculums and to borrow it for a time.... to me it is a blessing to have such a library.

[praisefor3]

How is this different from buying ANYTHING used? I mean, do you think clothes designers will begin saying, "No garage selling" their clothes? Or what about the used book sales at the library? Isn't this reselling someone's "work"? Or what about used car lots? Will Ford begin requiring us all to buy new? Maybe I am just not understanding this but ALL of these products put food on someone's table and yet, buying used is sometimes the most financially wise move in many markets. So why should homeschool curriculum be any different? I really am not trying to sound rude about this. I just don't understand how the laws of economics are any different for homeschool curriculum and why specialized rules against reselling can be expected. The used market is part of economic stimulation as well. I just don't get it. Sorry.