Ugh, I didn't want to have this confrontation

[bnrmom]

I've posted about my sister before - long story short, she is a narcissist who expects the entire world to revolve around her and her feelings. It's exhausting, but we dealt with it because I do love her and wanted a relationship. Last fall my mom was no longer able to pay her rent, and had to move in with me. My sister completely bailed, and didn't lift a finger to help me or my mom with this transition. (We are all local, and within 10 minutes of one another). In fact, she got angry with me for making her take back some of her stuff that I'd been storing for her for 3 years. Didn't hear from her for months after my mom moved in, then she emailed wanting to come over for Christmas. I said fine, even though I was still pissed at her completely bailing on me when it came time to take care of our mom. She came, she left, it was fine.

 

Then in January my mom had hip replacement surgery (scheduled). My sister was a total pain about trying to schedule who would be available when to help my mom out. My sister was around a bit the first week, and then completely bailed again. My mom had a rough recovery, including throwing up for weeks on end, and culminating with ending up in the ER and back in the hospital for a week. Nothing from my sister. My mom asked her a few times to help her with things and my sister basically argued with her about being too busy and told her no. I had to do everything. It was 24/7, and I was exhausted.

 

My sister has no job, and no kids. She is 37, and goes to art school.

 

Anyhow, I've kind of written her off for the time being. I'm too angry at having been there for her for every single freaking drama in her life for the past who knows how many years, but when the pedal hits the medal and it's time to buck up and start to care for our aging parent, she completely bails and leaves it all to me. It is what it is, and I've worked to come to terms with that, but I have no desire to see her right now, and I haven't heard from her in months.

 

She just emailed me wanting to know if she can come over for Easter. The answer is no, for many reasons. One is I don't want to see her. But the other is that I am tired of this "fair weather" sister routine. She totally bails when life is rough, but then wants to be a part of all the parties and celebrations. The problem is that by responding no, WWIII will erupt. I guess I've been trying to avoid it, but it's going to have to be said. My life was just starting to normalize after going through this whole transition with my mom, and I really didn't want to move into more family drama.

 

Blech. If anyone has any ideas of how I can tell her no without lying about our plans or having the confrontation, I'm all ears!

[*********]

Well, you could simply say no. :)

 

"No, sorry, we're not having people over for Easter this year", if you're feeling generous.

 

Sorry 'bout the crummy deal with your sister. :grouphug:

[Jaz]

I remember your story. I think you're smart to say no this time. You don't have to celebrate holidays with her right now. You can always invite her to something later in the year if you change your mind. Happy Easter! :grouphug:

[KnitWit]

I also remember your story. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

Here's what you need to do...every time you look at yourself in the mirror, smile and say "NO is a complete sentence".

 

I have had to tell myself the same thing. I understand you. For some reason, I always feel like I have to give people an explanation IN ADDITION TO my answer of "yes" or "no". We don't have to. "Yes." and "No." stand alone. :)

 

If she presses you for why then just say "we just aren't doing that this year". If she says she wants to see your mother then just tell her "Oh sure! I'll be happy to get back with you on a time that's convenient." Click.

[Gingerbread Mama]

 

If she presses you for why then just say "we just aren't doing that this year". If she says she wants to see your mother then just tell her "Oh sure! I'll be happy to get back with you on a time that's convenient." Click.

 

Or what about the response "I'll ask her. When could I tell her you'll be picking her up?"

 

:grouphug: family drama stinks. I have a feeling I am about to get a dose of it myself. Like you, I worry that putting my foot down will create WWIII, but I also know that I can't go through anymore with this particular bunch.

[Catwoman]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I remember your previous posts about your sister, too, and whatever you do, Do. Not. Cave.

 

Tell her no to Easter. As others have said, "No," is a complete sentence.

 

Keep your email short and to the point. Copy and paste the part where she asks if she can come, and respond with, "No."

 

Not, "I'm sorry, but no." Just, "No." Period. Done.

 

And if she emails you back and asks why, you can respond with, "Because we don't want to see you." Period. Done.

 

Don't answer her phone calls and don't let her drag you into an email battle. You can never, ever win with a narcissist. So don't bother trying.

 

I'm so sorry you're stuck dealing with her again. But whatever you do, don't let her manipulate you. You deserve to have a happy holiday, and you won't have it if she's there.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Danestress]

Can you say, "Mom would really love to see you. She's been lonely for you. We aren't doing much for a meal, and in fact the kids and I were hoping to take a long hike in XYZ park, but if you can and sat with Mom and let her enjoy that as an Easter gift, it would mean a lot to her.

[SKL]

I understand why you want to say "no," though I personally could probably not tell my sister to stay away. When I don't want to do something, I try to come up with a counter-offer. So I might suggest an alternative that wouldn't eat at me so much. Some examples might be paying a short visit to her house on the way to somewhere else, or letting her host everyone at a restaurant. Or if your mom is still in the hospital, meeting briefly at the hospital and then going out to lunch. That would at least force her to put forth some effort (or take back her request to meet). And it doesn't give her the kind of ammunition she'd have if you said "no." Another option is to come back with "[Christmas] would be a better time."

[besroma]

:grouphug:

[Joker]

Can you say, "Mom would really love to see you. She's been lonely for you. We aren't doing much for a meal, and in fact the kids and I were hoping to take a long hike in XYZ park, but if you can and sat with Mom and let her enjoy that as an Easter gift, it would mean a lot to her.

 

:iagree: I get you not wanting to see her, but if sister wants to see your mom I wouldn't get in the way of that.

[Tammyla]

Saying no isn't confrontation; it's just saying no. Boundaries can be a blessing.:grouphug:

 

I'd try setting something up with your mom too but only if your mom would enjoy it.

[Harriet Vane]

I remember your story. I think you're smart to say no this time. You don't have to celebrate holidays with her right now. You can always invite her to something later in the year if you change your mind. Happy Easter! :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

I remember your story as well. I have relatives like this too.

 

Just say no.

 

Don't go back-and-forth in a big email battle or phone thing. No discussion. None. No big explanations at ANY point, no matter what.

[PrairieSong]

Wow, I'm sorry. I have family drama too, except my brother is now estranged and living in another state so it's not too dramatic, just sad.

 

Does you mom want to see your sister? If she does, I'd try to find a way to work that out without your sister coming to your house.

 

If your mom doesn't want to see your sister, then I'd just say, "No." The only way there can be WWIII is if you push back. If you just step back and refuse to engage, then she can have her own drama but it won't involve you. You might want to email her and explain, but I'm guessing you've tried to talk to her many times before and she just doesn't get it.

[CupOCoffee]

Wow, I'm sorry. I have family drama too, except my brother is now estranged and living in another state so it's not too dramatic, just sad.

 

Does you mom want to see your sister? If she does, I'd try to find a way to work that out without your sister coming to your house.

 

If your mom doesn't want to see your sister, then I'd just say, "No." The only way there can be WWIII is if you push back. If you just step back and refuse to engage, then she can have her own drama but it won't involve you. You might want to email her and explain, but I'm guessing you've tried to talk to her many times before and she just doesn't get it.

 

This is what I was going to ask: how does your Mom feel about it? If she does not want to see her, because of all that has gone on, I agree with the others. Short.Sweet.Simple.No.No explanation. End of discussion.

 

Hope it all works out for you!

 

~coffee~

[Photo Ninja]

I agree with the others that you can tell her that you have plans for Easter already.

 

If your sister wants to see your mother, then ask her what time she will be picking your mother up so you can help her be ready on time. You don't need to celebrate with your sister, but she does need to be able to see her mother - but it doesn't have to be at your house.

[Just Another Jen]

I agree with most everyone else. Just email back and say no. It is hard, but it gets easier with practice.

[Denisemomof4]

I have been in your shoes and I completely understand how stressed you are. I have BTDT. I know you don't want to see her, and that is totally understandable. BUT..... What about your mom? Does she want to see her? Is she ok with telling sis that Sunday is out for a visit? If your mom doesn't care, neither should you. Just tell your sister Sunday is out. If your mom DOES want to see her, how about dessert? Or morning coffee? Something simple where your mom could just visit with her while you are busy doing your own thing. I am sure there is plenty to keep you occupied. ;)

[LaxMom]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I remember your previous posts about your sister, too, and whatever you do, Do. Not. Cave.

 

Tell her no to Easter. As others have said, "No," is a complete sentence.

 

Keep your email short and to the point. Copy and paste the part where she asks if she can come, and respond with, "No."

 

Not, "I'm sorry, but no." Just, "No." Period. Done.

 

And if she emails you back and asks why, you can respond with, "Because we don't want to see you." Period. Done.

 

Don't answer her phone calls and don't let her drag you into an email battle. You can never, ever win with a narcissist. So don't bother trying.

 

I'm so sorry you're stuck dealing with her again. But whatever you do, don't let her manipulate you. You deserve to have a happy holiday, and you won't have it if she's there.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

That. Particularly the bolded. You can't win. Narcissists are the absolute masters of the no-win situation. You can either be a slave to them or shut them down, but there will be "N-rage" (aka WWIII) if their demands are not met, no matter how petty or unreasonable. Eventually, you're probably going to have to go there, anyway, so why degrade yourself in the meantime by being her b!tch? (Sorry, I've btdt with my mother)

 

Say no. Lock the door. Unplug the phone. Enjoy your Easter.

[bnrmom]

About my mom - she is fully mobile now and can come and go whenever she wants, so nothing I do is standing in the way of her seeing my sister. My sister hasn't even called my mom about Easter. She wants to come over and do an egg hunt with the kids and have dinner. I'm working on coming to terms with who she is and the kind of relationship we have, but I'm not ready yet. And I'm not in the mood to keep doing this on holidays.

 

Dh says I should email her and say something along the lines of "If you want to try to repair this relationship, we can set a time to do that, but holidays aren't the time, so no, you can't come over for Easter." But honestly, I don't even have the energy for that right now. I guess I'm not particularly interested in putting a whole lot of effort in this. I'm worn out.

[DesertDweller]

I would tell her that you already have plans, but if she wants to do something with mom she can call her and discuss it and that you would be glad to drop mom off for a portion of the day.

[KnitWit]

Dh says I should email her and say something along the lines of "If you want to try to repair this relationship, we can set a time to do that, but holidays aren't the time, so no, you can't come over for Easter." But honestly, I don't even have the energy for that right now. I guess I'm not particularly interested in putting a whole lot of effort in this. I'm worn out.

 

I completely agree with your dh...however, I completely understand not having the emotional energy to do it. :grouphug:

[LibraryLover]

WWJD? I only ask because it is Easter.

[Catwoman]

WWJD? I only ask because it is Easter.

 

If Jesus had a sister like that, I would bet that their Father would have straightened her out a long time ago. ;)

[Catwoman]

 

Dh says I should email her and say something along the lines of "If you want to try to repair this relationship, we can set a time to do that, but holidays aren't the time, so no, you can't come over for Easter." But honestly, I don't even have the energy for that right now. I guess I'm not particularly interested in putting a whole lot of effort in this. I'm worn out.

 

It's a lovely sentiment, but for now, "No," is a lot easier.

 

And do you really want to try to repair the relationship? Because if your sister is truly a narcissist, it will only seem like things are getting better -- particularly while you're bending over backward to keep her happy -- but she will show her true colors again as soon as you need something from her.

 

Sorry to seem so pessimistic, but I honestly doubt your sister's personality is going to change. Everything has to be all about her. Period. You only matter because you can do something for her.

[Lisbeth]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I remember your previous posts about your sister, too, and whatever you do, Do. Not. Cave.

 

Tell her no to Easter. As others have said, "No," is a complete sentence.

 

Keep your email short and to the point. Copy and paste the part where she asks if she can come, and respond with, "No."

 

Not, "I'm sorry, but no." Just, "No." Period. Done.

 

And if she emails you back and asks why, you can respond with, "Because we don't want to see you." Period. Done.

 

Don't answer her phone calls and don't let her drag you into an email battle. You can never, ever win with a narcissist. So don't bother trying.

 

I'm so sorry you're stuck dealing with her again. But whatever you do, don't let her manipulate you. You deserve to have a happy holiday, and you won't have it if she's there.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

This, X100. You can do it! You can' t let someone's possible reaction control you.

[gardenmom5]

Blech. If anyone has any ideas of how I can tell her no without lying about our plans or having the confrontation, I'm all ears!

 

 

"I'm so sorry, but that won't work for us and we won't be able to host you. Have a happy Easter." (this is the long version for the person who has a hard time "just saying 'no'".)

 

considering she e-mailed to ask you, you can just e-mail her the response.

 

eta: if she wants to know why (in a manipulation attempt to get you to cave), just repeat "it won't work for" you and end the discussion. if you're on the phone, say goodbye and hang-up. if it is e-mail, say the subject is closed and refuse to respond to any further inquiries. otherwise, it will just devolved into an argument.

Edited April 7, 2012 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

And if she emails you back and asks why, you can respond with, "Because we don't want to see you."

I would recommend NOT this - as it would just make things worse by throwing down the gauntlet.

 

Saying no isn't confrontation; it's just saying no. Boundaries can be a blessing.:grouphug:

.

:iagree: and I'll take it one step further - with a narcissist (or related) boundaries are *essential*!

 

I'm working on coming to terms with who she is and the kind of relationship we have, but I'm not ready yet. And I'm not in the mood to keep doing this on holidays.

 

Dh says I should email her and say something along the lines of "If you want to try to repair this relationship, we can set a time to do that, but holidays aren't the time, so no, you can't come over for Easter." But honestly, I don't even have the energy for that right now. I guess I'm not particularly interested in putting a whole lot of effort in this. I'm worn out.

 

Your dh's instincts are way too kind :svengo: to deal with a narcissist and those of us who have btdtgtts will tell him 'that does NOT work. Ever'. you don't ever tell/imply a narcissist they have done something wrong and expect them to be reasonable. the fallout will not be pretty.

 

You establish boundaries with which you can live, and do NOT ever feel guilty for sticking to them. :gnorsi:

 

One thing to remember - narcissists can engage in the most egregious behavior - and are completely oblivious they have done anything wrong and blame you if you get upset about it.

[LaxMom]

WWJD? I only ask because it is Easter.

 

(gently) Normal people who do not live with a narcissist in their life do not really get why we cant just "play nice". I get that. Really. This is sentiment is not something one dealing with a narcissistic family member needs, though. Frame the thought as if the OP's sister was physically abusive to her. Would you suggest the same? Because that's what narcissists do, but on a much deeper level; they shred you to your very core. It is exhausting, demoralizing... And we generally have enough voices in our heads telling us we're bad people for cutting off a "dear" family member.

 

These are not "difficult" family members, though. They are not the insufferable uncle with the obnoxious opinions, or the passive-aggressive cousin who shows up for Thanksgiving. And you can't apply normal relationship problem-solving strategies. The problem with narcissists is that they do not see others as people with feelings and needs of their own. They do not have empathy. There is no cooperative relationship give and take.

 

I have often described my mother's view of the world as follows: it is a play of her own making. She has full control over the scenery and the script. The rest of the world are the cardboard cut-outs she uses as actors. We do not exist to bring life to our role, we are only objects, which she will move and voice as she sees fit for her play. And when one of the cut-outs won't bend or stand the way she wants for that scene, she gets furious and rages until she can get it to cooperate or she destroys it and replaces it with a new cut-out.

 

I can't imagine going through life with the idea that people only exist to serve my purpose, and I imagine the concept is even more difficult to wrap your head around if you have never been an object. But the OP needs to do what she feels is best for her and her family, without being guilted or having people (no matter how lovingly) suggest that she's being uncaring or lacking in Christ-like love. You can bet her sister did not go through this level of anguish when she said no to helping with their mother.

[Denisemomof4]

About my mom - she is fully mobile now and can come and go whenever she wants, so nothing I do is standing in the way of her seeing my sister. My sister hasn't even called my mom about Easter. She wants to come over and do an egg hunt with the kids and have dinner. I'm working on coming to terms with who she is and the kind of relationship we have, but I'm not ready yet. And I'm not in the mood to keep doing this on holidays.

 

Dh says I should email her and say something along the lines of "If you want to try to repair this relationship, we can set a time to do that, but holidays aren't the time, so no, you can't come over for Easter." But honestly, I don't even have the energy for that right now. I guess I'm not particularly interested in putting a whole lot of effort in this. I'm worn out.

 

Could your dh call her and tell her exactly what he recommended you say? And if WWIII erupts have dh be your filter. My dh has done this with my very difficult sister.

[Trish]

We're not doing anything for Easter, but mom would love for you to take her out!

[ma23peas]

First, love is unconditional...keep that in mind. (or rather should be! :))

 

Second, love is also honest...not the soul bearing, let it off your chest b/c it makes you feel better, but because you are not helping her by burying your resentment...she is able to be who she is, let yourself be who you are.

 

It IS loving to be honest. I would 'email' something along the lines of, this has been a tough year, most of mother's care has fallen to me and my family. We do not often get time to enjoy one another with our schedules. I do hold a lot of resentment for the lack of care or help you have shown for mom. I am afraid if you do come over, it will not be peaceful and right now....I need peace. I hope you understand.

 

No sugar coating it, not belly aching and going into defenses, just laying it out there. Maybe even, if you would like to come over for an hour or two, that is fine..I am sure mom would love to see you. Just be honest, let go of the bitterness but by all means be honest in a loving way.

[gardenmom5]

(gently) Normal people who do not live with a narcissist in their life do not really get why we cant just "play nice". I get that. Really. This is sentiment is not something one dealing with a narcissistic family member needs, though. Frame the thought as if the OP's sister was physically abusive to her. Would you suggest the same? Because that's what narcissists do, but on a much deeper level; they shred you to your very core. It is exhausting, demoralizing... And we generally have enough voices in our heads telling us we're bad people for cutting off a "dear" family member.

 

These are not "difficult" family members, though. They are not the insufferable uncle with the obnoxious opinions, or the passive-aggressive cousin who shows up for Thanksgiving. And you can't apply normal relationship problem-solving strategies. The problem with narcissists is that they do not see others as people with feelings and needs of their own. They do not have empathy. There is no cooperative relationship give and take.

 

I have often described my mother's view of the world as follows: it is a play of her own making. She has full control over the scenery and the script. The rest of the world are the cardboard cut-outs she uses as actors. We do not exist to bring life to our role, we are only objects, which she will move and voice as she sees fit for her play. And when one of the cut-outs won't bend or stand the way she wants for that scene, she gets furious and rages until she can get it to cooperate or she destroys it and replaces it with a new cut-out.

 

I can't imagine going through life with the idea that people only exist to serve my purpose, and I imagine the concept is even more difficult to wrap your head around if you have never been an object. But the OP needs to do what she feels is best for her and her family, without being guilted or having people (no matter how lovingly) suggest that she's being uncaring or lacking in Christ-like love. You can bet her sister did not go through this level of anguish when she said no to helping with their mother.

:iagree: great response. no, this isn't just the "crazy uncle" who makes every one nuts. (dh has a few of those - whole different league.)

 

I can't tell you how many times i heard from my NON-christian/non-religious family about what a terrible christian I was because I was "unforgiving". I refused to tolerate my grandmother's pscyhological abuse - because that's what narcissists do to their family members. It is abuse. I remember talking to a counselor, and he was sputtering "but that's abuse" in complete shock at what I was describing. just because my grandmother has been dead for 19 years hasn't stopped my brother from castigating me for calling the pot black. he's the one that would bring it up. I finally realized he's also NPD and he's currently persona non grata around here. (for other reasons).

 

or the number of people who will tell the family members of a narcissist that they are imagining things because the tiny pieces that other people see don't seem that bad in and of themselves, and you question your own sanity and perceptions . . .