So, what books are both historical fiction AND great literature?

[birchbark]

:bigear:

[Bluegoat]

:bigear:

 

Hmm. Do you just mean stories written by an author who chose to set the book in the past, or also books actually written in the past and set in that time? And if the former, do they have to be modern writers?

[Amethyst]

Hmmm. The first one that came to mind was Octavian Nothing. Not sure if you're looking for a particular age group. This is not for very young students. But absolutely wonderful.

[stripe]

I think she means a book about the past that is well written, regardless of how long ago it was written. The issue has come up in some Circe related threads, about reading mediocre quality historical fiction instead of great literature.

 

How about the Iliad? ;)

[birchbark]

Hmm. Do you just mean stories written by an author who chose to set the book in the past, or also books actually written in the past and set in that time? And if the former, do they have to be modern writers?

 

Well, I suppose either would work. I'm thinking along the lines of Johnny Tremain or Across Five Aprils. Books that teach about a historical time period but also have a good plot, colorful characters, and elevated language. Books that wouldn't be considered a "waste of time" from a literature standpoint.

[sagira]

I've been pondering this myself for a while (without ever hearing of Circe before a few weeks ago), and consider Ivanhoe to be true literature. I have rearranged months ago our list to include more literature instead of just historical fiction. The Three Musketeers, Les Miserables.. Charles Dickens novels. The Great Gatsby is good for modern times.

[momtoamiracle]

for young people I like Karen Cushman, Carolyn Meyer, and Ann Rinaldi.

 

 

adult fiction - I love Anya Seton, Margaret Irwin, Irving Stone, Pearl S. Buck (Imperial Woman is fascinating!)

 

 

read this as a teenager. It's unforgettable.

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Frontiersmen-Allan-Eckert/product-reviews/0553257994/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R13L75EDEMU6R1

Edited March 28, 2012 by momtoamiracle

[Mothersweets]

Well, I suppose either would work. I'm thinking along the lines of Johnny Tremain or Across Five Aprils. Books that teach about a historical time period but also have a good plot, colorful characters, and elevated language. Books that wouldn't be considered a "waste of time" from a literature standpoint.

 

Have you ever looked through the Sonlight catalog? We've enjoyed (ok, LOVED) almost all of the historical fiction they recommend.

[Another Lynn]

Great question! I was wondering if you mean capital G "Great" (high school level lists are coming to mind when I think Capital G). Or do you mean what are the Best in Children's Literature we should read in K-8 to prepare for the Great Books and are any of these also historical fiction? (Or if I'm way off, or complicating your question, please feel free to correct me!! :D)

[Lucy the Valiant]

Several of the (older) Newbery Award books fall into that category, IMO; of course, some of the newer ones do not. But that's a good jumping-off point for the middle years kids (NA books are technically geared 6th-8th grades).

[*Michelle*]

Several of the (older) Newbery Award books fall into that category, IMO; of course, some of the newer ones do not. But that's a good jumping-off point for the middle years kids (NA books are technically geared 6th-8th grades).

 

:iagree:

 

One that springs to mind is The Witch of Blackbird Pond.

[Ester Maria]

It depends on what you consider historical fiction, LOL. Regarding more classical literature which can pass as historical fiction:

 

M. Yourcenar's Hadrian's memoirs. This is probably the only "historical fiction" I have specifically assigned so far to match with history, and depending on the DC's maturity, you can read it as early as middle school, even though it is technically an adult level work. This is a historical fiction of the "fake autobiography" kind. HIGHLY recommended.

 

U. Eco's The Name of the Rose could probably fall into this category too - although it is postmodern / mixed genre, with the detective structure as its primary mechanism. A high school / adult level thing, although some younger students might be able to appreciate it.

 

Manzoni's The Bethroted and Tolstoy's War and Peace are more classical examples - both of them are set in historical epochs preceding by large the epochs in which they were written; Tolstoy's is centered around Napoleon, specifically, Manzoni is in 17th century northern Italy (Milan plague, Spanish rule, etc.). Manzoni can (and is) read by older middle years students, Tolstoy is typically a bite too large for them to successfully chew until mid high school and later.

[amsunshine]

:iagree:

 

One that springs to mind is The Witch of Blackbird Pond.

:iagree: We just finished this as a read aloud and I was just as enthralled with it, if not more so, as I was when I read it as a child. Lovely little book.

[nmoira]

Shakespeare :001_smile:

[nmoira]

There's good (and even great) historical fiction, just as there is good sf/f, mystery, horror, etc. It's lazy to categorize any work as not worthwhile simply because one can stick a "genre" label on it.

 

Hmmm. The first one that came to mind was Octavian Nothing.

:iagree: M.T. Anderson can do no wrong in my estimation.

[Ellie]

The Chestry Oak takes place in Nazi-occupied Hungary during WWII.

 

The Summer of My German Soldier is certainly historical, and it's great literature, IMHO.

 

Barbara Willard wrote a series of books that were pretty good.

[stripe]

Several of the (older) Newbery Award books fall into that category, IMO; of course, some of the newer ones do not. But that's a good jumping-off point for the middle years kids (NA books are technically geared 6th-8th grades).

 

Is Hitty: Her First Hundred Years great literature? Genevieve Foster's George Washington? Story of the Negro by Bontemps? Invincible Louisa?

 

To me, some of the old historical fiction may be well written and informative, but it's not great literature.

Edited March 29, 2012 by stripe

[Briartell]

This is a site done by a librarian who has indexed a ton of books that have won awards. You can search by age range, gender of main character, location the story takes place, the year range it is written in, the time period it took place, as well as select historical fiction only.

 

I loved the list it pulled up for me.

 

http://www.dawcl.com/search.asp

 

You can also choose if you want picture books or chapter books.

 

Love this site!

[oraetstudia]

Mark Twain's and R.L. Stevenson's novels hit the mark, I think.

[nmoira]

How much earlier must a work's setting be to be considered historical fiction? Could, say, the Moffat books, published in the '40's, considered historical fiction because they take place during WWI? Or must there be at least a generation or two deceased in between?

 

Is Hitty: Her First Hundred Years great literature? Genevieve Foster's George Washington? Story of the Negro by Bontemps? Invincible Louisa?

 

To me, some of the old historical fiction may be well written and informative, but it's not great literature.

To be fair, if a modern work can't be "classic" or even "great" because it hasn't yet passed the test of time, these works couldn't (yet) be considered either. However, I'd be willing to bet that none of these will manage to pass that test. ;)

[stripe]

To be fair, if a modern work can't be "classic" or even "great" because it hasn't yet passed the test of time, these works couldn't (yet) be considered either. However, I'd be willing to bet that none of these will manage to pass that test. ;)

 

An evaluation of wthether they are little "g" great would suffice, at least before worrying about whether they're Great Books (not to be confused with grrrrrrreat like frosted flakes). I refuse to believe Hitty is "great literature."

 

For what it's worth, two of the most memorable books from my childhood are Homesick: My Own Story by Jean Fritz and Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry by Mildred Taylor. I don't know if either is great, but they stuck with me.

[delaney]

The Chestry Oak takes place in Nazi-occupied Hungary during WWII.

 

The Summer of My German Soldier is certainly historical, and it's great literature, IMHO.

 

Barbara Willard wrote a series of books that were pretty good.

OH!!!! I remember Summer of My German Soldier!! I loved that book. Need to write down these suggestions.

 

Oh, Birchbark House is a great story about native americans. You can look here:http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/history/bookslist.html

and http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/history/americanhistory2/booklist.pdf

 

and TOG might show what they suggest online too http://bookshelfcentral.com/#1

[In2why]

I think that classic or Great might be too narrow. There are wonderful books that aren't classics but I feel would qualify as great for younger children and literature. The Golden Goblet, is one that comes to mind.

The problem for me is the books that I use as "filler" just because they are historical.

 

So maybe we could make a list of wonderful historical fiction that might not qualify as a classic, but is still filled with aspects that make it excellent literature, and historical? The ones that really shouldn't be missed, instead of just qualifying because they fit a certain time period.

[nmoira]

An evaluation of wthether they are little "g" great would suffice, at least before worrying about whether they're Great Books (not to be confused with grrrrrrreat like frosted flakes). I refuse to believe Hitty is "great literature."

Agreed. :001_smile:

 

For what it's worth, two of the most memorable books from my childhood are Homesick: My Own Story by Jean Fritz and Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry by Mildred Taylor. I don't know if either is great, but they stuck with me.

I'm embarrassed to say I'd never heard of Homesick until recently. I'd purchased it solely on the basis of its low price and Jean Fritz's name.

[Briartell]

Fever 1793

So Far From the Bamboo Grove

On the Corner of Bitter and Sweet (I let my 12 year old read this)

A Single Shard

Crispin

True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle

Joshua's Song

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've been thinking about this a lot, too. I did pledge to uncouple lit from history, but I'm not giving up on good historical fiction - I have always found it a great way to learn about particular time periods - and I do believe that some "Good" or "Great" books are best introduced after the student has some understanding of the historical context which produced them. So, some books I want to include that may cross those two categories are:

 

Mark Twain

Charles Dickens - A Tale of Two Cities, for sure, but others as well

Les Mis

The Count of Monte Cristo/The THree Musketeers

The Witch of Blackbird Pond

To Kill a Mockingbird (it will be so much better after studying post civil-war american history)

Rip Van Winkle/Legend of Sleepy HOllow

The Crucible

The Red Badge of Courage

Ivanhoe

Johnny Tremaine

Carry on Mr. Bowditch

Island of the Blue Dolphins

Cry, the Beloved Country

 

Oh, yeah, and what about Rosemary Sutcliff? Not the classic retellings, but the historical fiction? Dd is reading the Armourer's House right now, set in elizabethan england. She has lots of other historical novels, which I hadn't realized until lately.

[WeeBeaks]

I read The Scarlet Letter in high school, and my teacher brought in a lot of the historical. Same with Frankenstein and discussing the era it was written. I'm sure there were more as my English teachers were excellent, though I didn't appreciate it much at the time. ;)

 

We are currently doing Around the World in Eighty Days and working on the historical with it - science, geography, history.

 

We read Mark Twain as we read about the Gold Rush in California and Calaveras County. That was a huge hit here with my 9yo son.

 

The War of the Worlds I plan to do with my kids in modern history.

[Lucy the Valiant]

An evaluation of wthether they are little "g" great would suffice, at least before worrying about whether they're Great Books (not to be confused with grrrrrrreat like frosted flakes). I refuse to believe Hitty is "great literature."

 

For what it's worth, two of the most memorable books from my childhood are Homesick: My Own Story by Jean Fritz and Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry by Mildred Taylor. I don't know if either is great, but they stuck with me.

 

Notice my disclaimer about the Newbery titles. :tongue_smilie:

 

The ones I was thinking of were ones like Trumpeter of Krakow, Strawberry Girl, Caddie Woodlawn, Johnny Tremain, Amos Fortune, etc. (Was Lyddie a Newbery? I can't remember. Carry On, Mr. Bowditch, also The Bronze Bow - they also qualify, for me.) Perhaps they should be categorized as "Well Worth Your Time" instead of the much-lauded "great books" title.

 

Characters who learned real lessons, got into real adventures, made hard choices; settings that offer a flavor of the historical time period (and often the tensions of that era, too); and a sophisticated writing style that doesn't hinder the actual plot - those are the things I find worth while in some of the Newbery books. (I loved The Giver, too, when I was in middle grades. Made me really think things over and was good foundational thought-prep for books like Brave New World and some of Bradbury's works.)

 

 

Edit: I just looked up the list and can't believe I forgot Out of the Dust - while it may not achieve "great literature" status, it was very powerful to me the first time I read it, and I have since read through it with many a teenage kid totally unfamiliar with the desperation of that time period, or the levels of poverty revealed in that novel.

 

There are definitely books on that list that shouldn't have been given any prize at all, let alone the label of "best."

Edited March 29, 2012 by Katie

[*Michelle*]

Little House books

Away Goes Sally

The Covered Bridge

Little Navajo Bluebird

Gift of the Forest

Thirty-One Brothers and Sisters

Li Lin, Lad of Courage

The Big Wave

Snow Treasure

[Laura Corin]

Tale of Two Cities, Silas Marner, various Shakespeare (King Lear, Julius Caesar, the history plays) .....

 

Laura

[momtoamiracle]

I think that classic or Great might be too narrow. There are wonderful books that aren't classics but I feel would qualify as great for younger children and literature. The Golden Goblet, is one that comes to mind.

The problem for me is the books that I use as "filler" just because they are historical.

 

So maybe we could make a list of wonderful historical fiction that might not qualify as a classic, but is still filled with aspects that make it excellent literature, and historical? The ones that really shouldn't be missed, instead of just qualifying because they fit a certain time period.

 

 

:iagree:

[Mommyfaithe]

:iagree:

One that springs to mind is The Witch of Blackbird Pond.

My kids are loving this book! We are in the midst of studying the late 1600's, colonialism and of course...Witch Hunts! It is alive in that my children can put themselves back into the time period, relate to the characters, have discussions as if they were in Kit's shoes, or Williams, or Rachel's or Uncle Matthew's. They can begin to understand why some people behave as they do, why they are willing to die or kill for their beliefs, and how it can be brave to hold your tongue and your weapon.

We will be reading transcripts from the Salem Witch trials, as well as studying the inquisition in Europe as it relates. This book set the tone, but it is also literature in its own right. Well written, developed characters, lots of foreshadowing and other literary techniques to point out, and a darn good story to boot.

[Knittinfarmgirl]

I think that classic or Great might be too narrow. There are wonderful books that aren't classics but I feel would qualify as great for younger children and literature. The Golden Goblet, is one that comes to mind.
The problem for me is the books that I use as "filler" just because they are historical.

So maybe we could make a list of wonderful historical fiction that might not qualify as a classic, but is still filled with aspects that make it excellent literature, and historical? The ones that really shouldn't be missed, instead of just qualifying because they fit a certain time period.

 

 

An evaluation of wthether they are little "g" great would suffice, at least before worrying about whether they're Great Books (not to be confused with grrrrrrreat like frosted flakes). I refuse to believe Hitty is "great literature."

For what it's worth, two of the most memorable books from my childhood are Homesick: My Own Story by Jean Fritz and Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry by Mildred Taylor. I don't know if either is great, but they stuck with me.

 

:iagree:  Well written and memorable books draw the facts together with better understanding of the time period.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Of Mice and Men, Red Badge of Courage, Call of the Wild, the Courage of Sarah Noble, the Crucible, Thank You Ma'am by Langston Hughes (Short Story), the Help, To Kill A Mockingbird

In Anthem by Ayn Rand you can feel the level of fear and tension which permeated the time of the Red Scare. It isn't about that in the plot,but it is totally about it from a historical fiction sense. Animal Farm is this way as well.

[sdobis]

This is a site done by a librarian who has indexed a ton of books that have won awards. You can search by age range, gender of main character, location the story takes place, the year range it is written in, the time period it took place, as well as select historical fiction only.

I loved the list it pulled up for me.

http://www.dawcl.com/search.asp

You can also choose if you want picture books or chapter books.

Love this site!

 

Thanks for this! I just found some great books by Cornelia Funke that my daughter will probably love!

[Elfknitter.#]

Hello old thread...