what? schools can paddle students against parent wishes?

[ktgrok]

Just heard an NPR story about this, focusing on my lovely state of Florida. I'm sick. I may or may not believe an spanking now and then is needed. But I'll say right now no one else is going to lay a hand on my child, let alone with a wooden paddle that leaves welts on a preschooler, still there when they get home!!!!

 

I'm furious and disgusted and never sending any of my children to school.

 

http://www.wusf.usf.edu/news/2012/03/13/why_florida_schools_can_paddle_students_against_parents%E2%80%99_wishes

[SuperDad]

Jones is forced to keep Gierrea enrolled at Joyce Bullock. It's the only public school in their small town for kindergarten through second grade.

 

No one is forced to keep their child at a public school. Why is there no mention of private school, or online school, or *homeschooling*?

 

The fact that this is a public school makes it worse for me. I would expect this incident at a Catholic private school, perhaps... but a public, federally funded school? Absolutely not.

[ktgrok]

No one is forced to keep their child at a public school. Why is there no mention of private school, or online school, or *homeschooling*?

 

The fact that this is a public school makes it worse for me. I would expect this incident at a Catholic private school, perhaps... but a public, federally funded school? Absolutely not.

 

Well, if you are a single parent and have to work, and can't afford private school or a babysitter all day every day..you ARE forced to use public school. And I agree, federally funding paddling preschoolers is disgusting.

[mytwomonkeys]

i'm in florida too. i have several friends that are teachers and one mentioned that she has to paddle a few kids this year. she did have the parent's permission, but i have to admit, i had NO idea that kids could get paddled in school! NO idea. it really threw me for a loop!!! it made me extra glad that we homeschool!!!

[Slipper]

Alabama allows corporal punishment in school. I think it's horrific. In our district, if you do NOT want your child spanked, you have to fill out forms specifically requesting no corporal punishment. I fill them out every year for the kids that I have in public school. However, my kids know that if the school ever has to call me due to their behavior, they may prefer the spanking from school. ;)

[Teachin'Mine]

No one is forced to keep their child at a public school. Why is there no mention of private school, or online school, or *homeschooling*?

 

The fact that this is a public school makes it worse for me. I would expect this incident at a Catholic private school, perhaps... but a public, federally funded school? Absolutely not.

 

Maybe one from the 60's or 70's, but not today!

 

I'm also shocked to hear it's going on in public schools. I had no idea. :confused:

 

ETA: Just read the article and this is an abomination! The mother is absolutely right that she'd have been on the news if she had done what the school did to her son.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Teachin'Mine

[ktgrok]

Alabama allows corporal punishment in school. I think it's horrific. In our district, if you do NOT want your child spanked, you have to fill out forms specifically requesting no corporal punishment. I fill them out every year for the kids that I have in public school. However, my kids know that if the school ever has to call me due to their behavior, they may prefer the spanking from school. ;)

 

The thing is, what the article was uncovering was that even if you don't want them paddles, there is nothing you can do if they do it anyway. You can't sue, can't file criminal charges, anything.

[AnnaM]

yet another example of when you hand your child over to the system you lose your parental rights at the door...

[Teachin'Mine]

I hope she wins and they're forced to change and make corporal punishment in school illegal. What decade is this???

[PhotoGal]

What?! I can't believe it. People still spank with paddles? And *teachers* do too? That's insane! :sad:

[Mommyfaithe]

What?! I can't believe it. People still spank with paddles? And *teachers* do too? That's insane! :sad:

 

:iagree:

 

I don't think this would go over in NY. NO WAY!!! There would be a riot. I think if a person did that to my preschooler...that teacher would need to be afraid. very, very afraid:glare:

[stripe]

I was spanked (pants down! In front of the class! By hand, no implement) when I was in preschool and then put in a closet ( for getting up to ask a question) and I'm still mad about it.

[mytwomonkeys]

I was spanked (pants down! In front of the class! By hand, no implement) when I was in preschool and then put in a closet ( for getting up to ask a question) and I'm still mad about it.

 

i'm mad for you! that's awful!!:grouphug: my sister peed her pants in kindergarten and the teacher sat her on the radiator to dry out. my mother was furious!!!! my sister is 45 and still remembers how upset she felt.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I was spanked (pants down! In front of the class! By hand, no implement) when I was in preschool and then put in a closet ( for getting up to ask a question) and I'm still mad about it.

 

My dd suggests you hunt that teacher down in current day and go spank em right back and get even.... :D

 

For what it's worth, I was spanked at school too, over a cookie I did not eat and would not admit to eating....well..because I didn't do it!

 

I still hate chocolate chip cookies to this day.

[Rebecca VA]

I remember boys getting paddled in my public school, and I didn't (and still don't) think it was any big deal. In every case the boys were disrupting class. The coach (I always remember the coach doing it, never a lady teacher) would haul them out, paddle them, and then they'd come back in and be quiet.

 

I thought it was a quick and sensible solution to a discipline problem. You can't tell me that schools nowadays are doing a better job with discipline than they did in the old days.

[catz]

They were still paddling at my Catholic school into the 80's. I just posted how bullying (and cliques, for that matter) were rampant there too. :glare:

 

Can't believe this is legal in some states.

[Jennifer in MI]

I remember boys getting paddled in my public school, and I didn't (and still don't) think it was any big deal. In every case the boys were disrupting class. The coach (I always remember the coach doing it, never a lady teacher) would haul them out, paddle them, and then they'd come back in and be quiet.

 

I thought it was a quick and sensible solution to a discipline problem. You can't tell me that schools nowadays are doing a better job with discipline than they did in the old days.

 

Just curious - would you be okay if they did this to one of your children?

[swellmomma]

:iagree:

 

I don't think this would go over in NY. NO WAY!!! There would be a riot. I think if a person did that to my preschooler...that teacher would need to be afraid. very, very afraid:glare:

 

:iagree: They may be protected by the law with a right to beat my child, but they would not be protected from me. I would actually file a civil suit against her and the school sinice a criminal suit will not get her anywhere.

[jennynd]

No one is forced to keep their child at a public school. Why is there no mention of private school, or online school, or *homeschooling*?

 

The fact that this is a public school makes it worse for me. I would expect this incident at a Catholic private school, perhaps... but a public, federally funded school? Absolutely not.

 

:confused: if you don't have money and have to work. You kinda forced to keep a kid in public school. Not everyone has the luxury to homeschool.

It is a bit much to spank a 5yr

[kwg]

from the article......

 

".......in a letter to Gierrea's family, the attorney for the Levy County school district cited criminal child abuse cases that ruled welts and bruises on a child's bottom are not evidence of excessive force.

 

Still the attorney offered the family $1,000 to settle the case.

Gierrea's mom rejected the offer.

 

She says there needs to be a consequence for the principal's actions.

"She should be fired,” Jones said. "Put her on suspension or something.”

But attorneys say the most the mom will get is money, or maybe get the school district to change its policy....."

 

:001_huh: I am pretty sure welts and bruises are evidence of excessive force, right?

 

Her child might still be there, but I wonder if anyone has spanked him since :tongue_smilie: Good for her!

Edited March 14, 2012 by kwg

[Rebecca VA]

Actually, if my son were being disruptive in class I would allow it. Disruptive students cause a great deal of stress to everyone, especially the teacher. They waste other students' class time. They need to be dealt with quickly and severely (not to the point of physical damage, but certainly to their pride). I can't think of a more efficient way to deal with students who insist on disrupting a class.

 

I would not allow it for a girl, but I would for a boy.

 

Edited to add: Welts and bruises? That's excessive. I'm talking about normal paddling, not serious abuse.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Rebecca VA

[Whereneverever]

from the article......

 

".......in a letter to Gierrea's family, the attorney for the Levy County school district cited criminal child abuse cases that ruled welts and bruises on a child's bottom are not evidence of excessive force.

 

Still the attorney offered the family $1,000 to settle the case.

Gierrea's mom rejected the offer.

 

She says there needs to be a consequence for the principal's actions.

"She should be fired,†Jones said. "Put her on suspension or something.â€

But attorneys say the most the mom will get is money, or maybe get the school district to change its policy....."

 

:001_huh: I am pretty sure welts and bruises are evidence of excessive force, right?

 

Her child might still be there, but I wonder if anyone has spanked him :tongue_smilie: Good for her!

 

That totally depends on state. I know in wy it isn't considered excessive force. :001_huh::001_huh:

[ktgrok]

I remember boys getting paddled in my public school, and I didn't (and still don't) think it was any big deal. In every case the boys were disrupting class. The coach (I always remember the coach doing it, never a lady teacher) would haul them out, paddle them, and then they'd come back in and be quiet.

 

I thought it was a quick and sensible solution to a discipline problem. You can't tell me that schools nowadays are doing a better job with discipline than they did in the old days.

 

Well, I look at it this way. If it worked as a discipline tool they wouldn't have to keep paddling the same kids. Also, what about all the times the teachers get it wrong? I was punished several times in elementary school for things I didn't do. Once other kids even vouched for me, but the teacher still put me in the corner. I can't imagine being paddled for something I didn't do.

[ktgrok]

Actually, if my son were being disruptive in class I would allow it. Disruptive students cause a great deal of stress to everyone, especially the teacher. They waste other students' class time. They need to be dealt with quickly and severely (not to the point of physical damage, but certainly to their pride). I can't think of a more efficient way to deal with students who insist on disrupting a class.

 

I would not allow it for a girl, but I would for a boy.

 

Edited to add: Welts and bruises? That's excessive. I'm talking about normal paddling, not serious abuse.

 

for a boy but not a girl? cause girls aren't disruptive, or because their nerve endings are different???

 

There are plenty of ways to handle disruption without paddling. And how do you know how hard to hit without leaving a welt? Do you practice on another teacher or something?

[ktgrok]

:iagree: They may be protected by the law with a right to beat my child, but they would not be protected from me. I would actually file a civil suit against her and the school sinice a criminal suit will not get her anywhere.

 

The law in my state protects them from civil and criminal suit.

[Jane in NC]

Actually, if my son were being disruptive in class I would allow it. Disruptive students cause a great deal of stress to everyone, especially the teacher. They waste other students' class time. They need to be dealt with quickly and severely (not to the point of physical damage, but certainly to their pride). I can't think of a more efficient way to deal with students who insist on disrupting a class.

 

I would not allow it for a girl, but I would for a boy.

 

Edited to add: Welts and bruises? That's excessive. I'm talking about normal paddling, not serious abuse.

 

Can you define "normal paddling"? I must admit that I don't consider any form of paddling "normal".

[stripe]

There are plenty of ways to handle disruption without paddling. And how do you know how hard to hit without leaving a welt? Do you practice on another teacher or something?

 

:lol: Isn't that the best use of the lounge?

 

Someone I don't know very well once told me kids of her ethnic group are so well behaved because the parents beat them once a month whether they misbehave or not. It was hilarious yet deeply disturbing at the same time.

[kwg]

That totally depends on state. I know in wy it isn't considered excessive force. :001_huh::001_huh:

That is nuts!

[Dustybug]

Well, I'm pretty sure it's legal here in NC to paddle in schools too, but I haven't actually heard of it being used in recent years.

 

I'm not against spanking, even with a paddle if used correctly (and I'm not commenting on this thread to debate whether that is "normal" or "right", etc.). I would NOT, however, be okay with anyone other than DH or I administering a spanking(paddle or not). My ILs are allowed to spank my niece and nephews, but they know that if they have a problem with our children while they are watching them, they are to choose another form of discipline.

[Jane in NC]

Well, I'm pretty sure it's legal here in NC to paddle in schools too, but I haven't actually heard of it being used in recent years.

 

I'm not against spanking, even with a paddle if used correctly (and I'm not commenting on this thread to debate whether that is "normal" or "right", etc.). I would NOT, however, be okay with anyone other than DH or I administering a spanking(paddle or not). My ILs are allowed to spank my niece and nephews, but they know that if they have a problem with our children while they are watching them, they are to choose another form of discipline.

 

Most districts in NC have banned corporal punishment. But it was only in 2011 that the state legislature gave parents the power to opt their children out in the remaining districts that maintain this form of discipline.

[MegP]

I think it is only the southern states where this is legal.

[SuperDad]

:confused: if you don't have money and have to work. You kinda forced to keep a kid in public school. Not everyone has the luxury to homeschool.

I am aware that many families are in situations in which homeschooling would not be aa viable option. However, as I stated earlier, you are never forced to send your child to a certain educational instition (there are exceptions to this statement- such as if the government takes your children away from you- but they are all extreme and rare scenarios). No one will ever hold you at gunpoint and order you to send your kids to a particular school.

 

I know that many WTMers on this forum originally sent their kids to ps, but pulled their child(ren) out due to an unpleasant experience. I also know that some of those parents were single, working, and relatively poor, but still pulled their children out due to the severity of their struggle with ps.

for a boy but not a girl? cause girls aren't disruptive, or because their nerve endings are different???

 

There are plenty of ways to handle disruption without paddling. And how do you know how hard to hit without leaving a welt? Do you practice on another teacher or something?

:iagree:

[stripe]

No one will ever hold you at gunpoint and order you to send your kids to a particular school.

 

 

Education is mandatory. Public schools are generally the only free option. That's no excuse for them to do whatever they want and abuse children or other morally questionable behavior.

 

Eta: here's a 2009 report that shows where it's legal and how it is disproportionately used on students with disabilities.

http://www.aclu.org/human-rights/impairing-education-corporal-punishment-students-disabilities-us-public-schools

Edited March 14, 2012 by stripe

[Dustybug]

Most districts in NC have banned corporal punishment. But it was only in 2011 that the state legislature gave parents the power to opt their children out in the remaining districts that maintain this form of discipline.

 

Thanks for clarifying. :)

[Jennifer in MI]

Actually, if my son were being disruptive in class I would allow it. Disruptive students cause a great deal of stress to everyone, especially the teacher. They waste other students' class time. They need to be dealt with quickly and severely (not to the point of physical damage, but certainly to their pride). I can't think of a more efficient way to deal with students who insist on disrupting a class.

 

I would not allow it for a girl, but I would for a boy.

 

Edited to add: Welts and bruises? That's excessive. I'm talking about normal paddling, not serious abuse.

 

for a boy but not a girl? cause girls aren't disruptive, or because their nerve endings are different???

 

There are plenty of ways to handle disruption without paddling. And how do you know how hard to hit without leaving a welt? Do you practice on another teacher or something?

 

I guess I don't get it. If your son were disrupting the class, it'd be okay to paddle him. But not your daughter!? Can you explain please?

 

And, normal paddling? Anyone who touched my kids with a "paddle" would be in serious trouble! I don't see this as normal!

[AimeeM]

No one is forced to keep their child at a public school. Why is there no mention of private school, or online school, or *homeschooling*?

 

The fact that this is a public school makes it worse for me. I would expect this incident at a Catholic private school, perhaps... but a public, federally funded school? Absolutely not.

Actually, most diocese have outlawed this in Catholic schools even.

I have had my daughter in a few different Catholic schools and NONE allowed any corporal punishment. The last one went so far as to require parents NOT apply corporal punishment to their own children, on school property.

 

OP - many schools here in SC still use corporal punishment. I find it disgusting as well.

[katilac]

I would not allow it for a girl, but I would for a boy.

 

:confused:

 

Why?

[Alicia64]

I was spanked (pants down! In front of the class! By hand, no implement) when I was in preschool and then put in a closet ( for getting up to ask a question) and I'm still mad about it.

 

I'm livid for you!! I'm so, so sorry. :(

 

Alley

[regentrude]

Actually, if my son were being disruptive in class I would allow it. Disruptive students cause a great deal of stress to everyone, especially the teacher. They waste other students' class time. They need to be dealt with quickly and severely (not to the point of physical damage, but certainly to their pride). I can't think of a more efficient way to deal with students who insist on disrupting a class.

 

I would not allow it for a girl, but I would for a boy.

 

.

:confused::confused::confused:

 

Why the difference???

(I don't agree with corporal punishment in school anyway, but I am seriously puzzled about this double standard.)

[meltf928]

Here is a link to a map and other info on the legality of corporal punishment in schools. I do not know how accurate the information is. According to this site, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Tennessee and Texas have the highest rates. All of the states in the south allow corporal punishment, but it definitely occurs elsewhere as well.

 

 

http://www.corpun.com/counuss.htm

[michelle l]

Oh my goodness, that's awful. I had no idea that was still allowed anywhere. :sad: