helena Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Do you correct or insist your kids use them correctly? I ask because I've been noticing the strange reactions we get when we put our best grammar foot forward. It makes me feel queer... Ha Ha! :lol: I'm starting to wonder if we're reading too many vintage books. How sad is it, that saying "may I..." seems overly formal?! And this is coming from someone who's a walking, talking grammar disaster! I mean, my grammar skills STINK. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 No, I don't insist on "may I." I do think it sounds rather formal these days. I don't think there's anything wrong with you doing it if it's your preference, but it's not something that's a big deal to me with my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) No, generally not in everyday conversations or informal writing. It is considered more formal and can sound "strange" the same as the word shall, which may be grammatically correct, but is seldom used. At the same time, "can I" instead of "may I" sounds totally wrong when followed by some things such as going to use the facilities. :tongue_smilie: Sorry you're getting strange responses when you use proper grammar. I guess you could say that I'm selective about the times when I put my best grammar foot forward. Edited March 1, 2012 by Teachin'Mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I try to have my kids say, "May I?" The grandparents are always impressed. It bugs to some extent that most kids have no idea what proper grammar is, and much less use it. I bought A Beka's Oral Language Exercises for this purpose. Every day we spend a minute of two reciting the lesson. The goal is to learn proper grammar and practice speaking it in our every day conversation. This is only our first year using it, though, so I can't speak for results yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle in MO Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I generally use them correctly and teach my kids to as well. I'm a stickler for such things, much to the dismay of some people in my family! I think it's important to use words correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlbuchina Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I am trying to get better at it. If my dc say "can I", I respond with, "I don't know, can you? Are you capable?" If they say "can you", I respond with, "yep, I sure can!" or "nope, I can't do that." LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 When I'm not trying to just be casual, so I don't sound weird, I speak as I was taught. Mike and I went..... Give the ball to Mike or me.... Lie down.... Lay your body down. Raise your hand... Rise up.... May I have a cookie... Can you hit the ball.... Shall is one I don't use much, but I know some of the proper uses. (Which have changed over time) I believe that Shall and Whilst are used some places, right? and my poor son won't let go of "writ"... which use to be a proper past tense, I believe.... Perhaps he uses it because of books he's been read... I can't figure that one out :) (And yes, I know that I didn't properly punctuate anything in this post ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 No' date=' generally not in everyday conversations or informal writing. It is considered more formal and can sound "strange" the same as the word shall which may be grammatically correct, but is seldom used. At the same time, "can I" instead of "may I" sounds totally wrong when followed by some things such as going to use the facilities. :tongue_smilie:[/quote'] :lol: The next time this topic comes up with the kids I'm going to point this out! There really is a time and place for everything, even "may I". We don't use it all the time, but I do find myself correcting them occasionally and hear the kids using it here and there. I prefer including "may I", but comparing it to "shall" (which I use once in a while, but would never use shan't) puts it in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 I am trying to get better at it. If my dc say "can I", I respond with, "I don't know, can you? Are you capable?" If they say "can you", I respond with, "yep, I sure can!" or "nope, I can't do that." LOL I do this too. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yes, I do. :-) But I'm just like that. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetoschool Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I am trying to get better at it. If my dc say "can I", I respond with, "I don't know, can you? Are you capable?" If they say "can you", I respond with, "yep, I sure can!" or "nope, I can't do that." LOL :lol: Just what I say to my kids. Except with a tone in my voice - I don't know...caaaannn you? I agree that I feel old and archaic when I speak 'properly'. I find my self slipping into slang and colloquialisms whenever I speak to younger people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 English isn't my first language. I teach my kids the rules/ways I learned -- some are formal, some are not. There is neither rhyme nor reason to it, other than "this is how learnt it" :) I did learn the difference between "can" and "may" so I'm a stickler for that; to me, they mean very different things so it's important to say which one you mean! Having not grown up hearing one as 'formal' and one as 'casual' that's not a distinction I make. I used 'whilst' up until last year, when enough people commented on it that I finally became self-conscious! I still use it a lot in speech, because that sounds normal to me (and is less noticeable than my writing it, to those who have taken me to task for it) LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sometimes I can; othertimes, I may. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes I use them correctly when speaking and writing. It does not sound overly formal to me, is sounds correct. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes I use them correctly when speaking and writing. It does not sound overly formal to me, is sounds correct. :001_smile: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 No, I never use the word 'may' like that. I don't mind others doing it but it feels pretentious if I do it. I don't come from that circle of formality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We do. If the kids say, "Can I do such-and-such?", he'll say, "I don't know. Can you?" He's a big stickler for correct grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What are you all asking permission for all the time? I can't think of any time recently I've used the phrase "may I" or its substitute "can I"? My child does, of course, ask permission for things from time to time, and I believe he says "may I." I'll pay attention next time to see for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerPoppy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'll use "may" in slightly more formal situations; sometimes it even slips out in casual ones. "Whilst" sounds very upper class British to me. Last I was living in that world, it was alive and well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Here's an example: Can we pick up some pizza tonight? We can, lol, so the correct way would be to say May we pick up some pizza tonight? Definitely not what I would say. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I am trying to get better at it. If my dc say "can I", I respond with, "I don't know, can you? Are you capable?" If they say "can you", I respond with, "yep, I sure can!" or "nope, I can't do that." LOL I do this, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Here's an example: Can we pick up some pizza tonight? We can' date=' lol, so the correct way would be to say May we pick up some pizza tonight? Definitely not what I would say. :tongue_smilie:[/quote'] I assume this would be something said to a spouse? I wouldn't say either of those sentences. I suppose I avoid it by recasting my sentence entirely. I would probably say Would you like pizza tonight? or Do you mind if we order pizza? or, most likely Please order some pizza. I'm exhausted. No "may" or "can" to be found! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Throw tomatoes if you must but.... even as a kid I always thought the "I don't know, can you?" response was disrespectful to the child, down right rude and snooty. I don't understand a parent using snark to teach their kids. We are sarcastic in our home, but not snarky. There is a difference and it is pretty obvious to me. Why not just clarify the correct word...why the rebuttal intended to belittle the person's simple grammatical error? Especially since the person obviously knows what the child was trying to say, it makes me feel sorry for the kids when ever I see an adult use this method to teach a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Here's an example: Can we pick up some pizza tonight? We can' date=' lol, so the correct way would be to say May we pick up some pizza tonight? Definitely not what I would say. :tongue_smilie:[/quote'] Thinking a bit further on this. . . In the first sentence, isn't the "we" an inclusive we, i.e. it includes the speaker and the person addressed? In that case, I don't think the "May we . . ." construction would actually be the correct form. The "you and I" contained in the "we" would be asking permission of "you". You don't ask permission of yourself! I think instead you would say, "Shall we pick up some pizza tonight?" But, "shall" is apparently considered as archaic as "may", so that doesn't really help the situation. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHowell Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I am trying to get better at it. If my dc say "can I", I respond with, "I don't know, can you? Are you capable?" If they say "can you", I respond with, "yep, I sure can!" or "nope, I can't do that." LOL Yes I use them correctly when speaking and writing. It does not sound overly formal to me, is sounds correct. :001_smile: This is us, though I find I correct myself (!) from time to time. I don't find it snarky, but it's almost always said with a smile on our faces so it can be interpreted as more of a sarcastic statement. DD will usually roll her eyes at me and correct it, smiling as well. We are a pretty sarcastic bunch here though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes I use them correctly when speaking and writing. It does not sound overly formal to me, is sounds correct. :001_smile: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHowell Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Thinking a bit further on this. . . In the first sentence, isn't the "we" an inclusive we, i.e. it includes the speaker and the person addressed? In that case, I don't think the "May we . . ." construction would actually be the correct form. The "you and I" contained in the "we" would be asking permission of "you". You don't ask permission of yourself! I think instead you would say, "Shall we pick up some pizza tonight?" But, "shall" is apparently considered as archaic as "may", so that doesn't really help the situation. :D I say shall quite often. :blushing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Throw tomatoes if you must but.... even as a kid I always thought the "I don't know, can you?" response was disrespectful to the child, down right rude and snooty. I don't understand a parent using snark to teach their kids. We are sarcastic in our home, but not snarky. There is a difference and it is pretty obvious to me. Why not just clarify the correct word...why the rebuttal intended to belittle the person's simple grammatical error? Especially since the person obviously knows what the child was trying to say, it makes me feel sorry for the kids when ever I see an adult use this method to teach a child. I guess it's all in delivery. DH is not snarky and, in fact, the kids laugh about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes I use them correctly when speaking and writing. It does not sound overly formal to me, is sounds correct. :001_smile: :iagree:They mean different things.... so I use them differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 But, "shall" is apparently considered as archaic as "may", so that doesn't really help the situation. :D I really don't see "may" as archaic. I hear it in everyday conversation, on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Throw tomatoes if you must but.... even as a kid I always thought the "I don't know, can you?" response was disrespectful to the child, down right rude and snooty. I don't understand a parent using snark to teach their kids. We are sarcastic in our home, but not snarky. There is a difference and it is pretty obvious to me. Why not just clarify the correct word...why the rebuttal intended to belittle the person's simple grammatical error? Especially since the person obviously knows what the child was trying to say, it makes me feel sorry for the kids when ever I see an adult use this method to teach a child. Not throwing tomatoes! :grouphug: But I do disagree. ;) It is a running joke in our house and not meant or taken as belittling. And if dh or I slip up and use "can," you can bet one of the dc will ask us if we can! :lol: And when they do, we are PROUD of them! I confess - I use shall... :tongue_smilie: In the pizza scenario, here it would play out something like, "How do you feel about pizza for dinner?" So also avoiding the whole asking permission thing, both from dh and from myself! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I guess it's all in delivery. DH is not snarky and, in fact, the kids laugh about it. Not throwing tomatoes! :grouphug: But I do disagree. ;) It is a running joke in our house and not meant or taken as belittling. And if dh or I slip up and use "can," you can bet one of the dc will ask us if we can! :lol: And when they do, we are PROUD of them! I confess - I use shall... :tongue_smilie: In the pizza scenario, here it would play out something like, "How do you feel about pizza for dinner?" So also avoiding the whole asking permission thing, both from dh and from myself! :lol: I think you are both right. I had it drilled into my brain by teachers in elementary school. When I hear it, I mentally see little kids doing the "I'm going to wet my pants" dance, and the teacher won't let them go until they get it right, pretending that they don't understand what the kid is saying. I have always heard it in a sing-song voice, that was not intended to be humorous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevilla Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Do you correct or insist your kids use them correctly? I ask because I've been noticing the strange reactions we get when we put our best grammar foot forward. It makes me feel queer... Ha Ha! :lol: I'm starting to wonder if we're reading too many vintage books. How sad is it, that saying "may I..." seems overly formal?! And this is coming from someone who's a walking, talking grammar disaster! I mean, my grammar skills STINK. :001_huh: I'm speaking as a grammar teacher here...Can I and May I are both modal verbs, and can is used used to make requests as well as express ability (most native speakers don't know what a 'modal verb' is but if you google it a quick explanation will come up). There is a range of scale of politeness with making requests and expressing ability - Can I is more casual, May I is more formal (and as the English language changes RAPIDLY, far more rapidly than other languages I have encountered, May I has moved into 'formal speech' instead of everyday speech). It's not incorrect to say "Can I" because it is a modal verb, the more polite form is "Could you..." or 'Would you be able to' or "would I be able to (see how the 'can' sneaks in there with the 'be able to' ; )) Edited March 2, 2012 by Sevilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I generally use them correctly and teach my kids to as well. I'm a stickler for such things, much to the dismay of some people in my family! I think it's important to use words correctly. :iagree: Same here. I'm not as particular about my written grammar when I'm posting on a forum, because I'd prefer to sound conversational rather than formal. IRL, I'm kind of anal about it, and apparently my ds has picked up on my habits because people often comment about his grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I think you are both right. I had it drilled into my brain by teachers in elementary school. When I hear it, I mentally see little kids doing the "I'm going to wet my pants" dance, and the teacher won't let them go until they get it right, pretending that they don't understand what the kid is saying. I have always heard it in a sing-song voice, that was not intended to be humorous. I don't like that. Not at all! ITA with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes, I do. :-) But I'm just like that. :D :001_wub::001_wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I use may for requests. That was how I was reared and I do the same. My younger son still say 'may you please' when he is asking for something, as in 'may you please give me that banana?" I don't think it will be around for much longer and I will miss it. When he gets very angry at his brother he will bellow "May you please STOP!" He sounds like a very angry butler or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm speaking as a grammar teacher here...Can I and May I are both modal verbs, and can is used used to make requests as well as express ability (most native speakers don't know what a 'modal verb' is but if you google it a quick explanation will come up). There is a range of scale of politeness with making requests and expressing ability - Can I is more casual, May I is more formal (and as the English language changes RAPIDLY, far more rapidly than other languages I have encountered, May I has moved into 'formal speech' instead of everyday speech). It's not incorrect to say "Can I" because it is a modal verb, the more polite form is "Could you..." or 'Would you be able to' or "would I be able to (see how the 'can' sneaks in there with the 'be able to' ; )) Yes, English changes rapidly, but honestly, I am 40 and when I was a child it was unusual to use "may" instead of "can." And yes, my family used to sometimes do the "I don't know...can you?" thing, which I find as annoying as previous posters and would never say to my dc or anyone else. (You can tell I was the youngest, can't you? Oh wait, mayn't you? :lol:) German has modal verbs, and my professors made it very clear that the "can" and "may" equivalents are NOT interchangeable in that language. While we're arguing about something that had gone out of common usage years ago, Swedish dropped an entire pronoun! They got rid of the formal "you" - no one uses it anymore except maybe rural great-grandmothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We never use "May I." It's way too formal for my ears. I'm an incredibly informal person in almost all aspects of my life and I like it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Do you correct or insist your kids use them correctly? Yes, I absolutely do correct and insist. Nowadays, my 17-year-old daughter steps in and does the correcting if any of us slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelle l Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes, I use them correctly in both speaking and writing. My kids correct me if I don't. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I assume this would be something said to a spouse? I wouldn't say either of those sentences. I suppose I avoid it by recasting my sentence entirely. I would probably say Would you like pizza tonight? or Do you mind if we order pizza? or, most likely Please order some pizza. I'm exhausted. No "may" or "can" to be found! Could be - and sometimes I rephrase it to "How 'bout some pizza?" But I don't think that qualifies as being more grammatically correct. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thinking a bit further on this. . . In the first sentence, isn't the "we" an inclusive we, i.e. it includes the speaker and the person addressed? In that case, I don't think the "May we . . ." construction would actually be the correct form. The "you and I" contained in the "we" would be asking permission of "you". You don't ask permission of yourself! I think instead you would say, "Shall we pick up some pizza tonight?" But, "shall" is apparently considered as archaic as "may", so that doesn't really help the situation. :D Good point! I agree that "shall" doesn't help the situation. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Okay, I read all about modal verbs. :001_smile: I think I'll stick to my guns and go down with the "formal" ship on this one. It just doesn't sound right to me. Even though I break all sorts of grammar rules, and even though it's a modal verb and is perfectly acceptable... this is one that I grew up with and I'm comfortable with. I'm also comfortable with shall... :tongue_smilie: But I shan't use shan't unless I'm quoting Hayley Mills in The Parent Trap. "Shan't shan't, can't can't" :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Do you correct or insist your kids use them correctly? Yes, I do. Because my mother did, truth be known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Throw tomatoes if you must but.... even as a kid I always thought the "I don't know, can you?" response was disrespectful to the child, down right rude and snooty. I say, "Well you CAN, as it is physically possible.." without a hint of sarcasm. My son, not one to keep quiet if he feels he is being shaken down, has not protested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I say, "Well you CAN, as it is physically possible.." without a hint of sarcasm. My son, not one to keep quiet if he feels he is being shaken down, has not protested. Same here. I took great pains to learn this danged language; darned if my kids aren't going to speak it correctly - even if that means formally! ;):D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I say, "May I..." and I gently correct my children if they mess it up, sort of in a teasing manner. "May I be excused from the table? Yes, you may!" I tend to use more formal grammar as well (really, it's just correct grammar, but people seem to think it sounds formal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsieFamily Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 My entire family tends to correct every grammar mistake. Even Peter and Susan correct every grammar mistake they notice. If it ends up sounding formal, it sounds formal. Better to sound too formal than too informal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I say, "Well you CAN, as it is physically possible.." without a hint of sarcasm. My son, not one to keep quiet if he feels he is being shaken down, has not protested. I say, "May I..." and I gently correct my children if they mess it up, sort of in a teasing manner. "May I be excused from the table? Yes, you may!" I tend to use more formal grammar as well (really, it's just correct grammar, but people seem to think it sounds formal). I don't mind modeling correct behavior. I don't like it when people play stupid. The question...."Can I go to the bathroom" the other person's repsonse...."I don't know, can you?" Pretending like one person doesn't understand the other, grates on my nerves. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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