How far behind level is TT anyways?

[hsmom]

My son is finishing up McRuffy grade 1 (just a few lessons left) then we start grade 2 of it. I just had him do the TT level 3 placement test and he passed it all but the multiplication. To me that seems like TT is way behind level of the rest of the programs out there.:001_huh: I am wrong?

[Rai B.]

You're not wrong. I was looking at math curriculum for dd (I don't like Saxon) , and everything on the Teaching Textbooks placement test for testing into third grade was covered in first grade on the Singapore placement tests.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Rai B.

[lmrich]

I use TT a grade above as an independent review for my dd. I love it. It is a sprial program and does an excellent job of helping her remember how many pints in a quart long after we finished that chapter in SM. I know several people who use it as their main math and LOVE it. I love it for review and summer math.

[kolamum]

I think, and it might just be me, that the sample tests aren't a good reflection of what's covered within the course. Try looking at the TOC and compare that. Having said that both my kids tested a grade ahead and we went that way..

 

Yet, having said that, my son did do a few follow up lessons from the grade he would have been in because he had not covered that item and it was NOT on the placement test.

 

I'll also say that if you look at the TOC and compare it with say.. The massive list of things a child would cover in any grade via the Home Learning year By Year book you'll find that it matches up pretty well.

 

Lastly, if the discs weren't so expensive I suspect a child could do 2 grades in a year skipping all the review lessons they "cover" at the beginning of the year. TT does not have 180 lessons {or more} like some math curriculums {Saxon comes to mind} thus there's PLENTY of extra days if you skip all those reviews. On the upside it leaves plenty of room for review if your child is struggling with a concept, living math days, applied math days, math games, LOF, etc.

[hmschooling]

Considering TT3 for my 2nd grader had word problems like "If Sam has 3 stamps and Judy has 5, how many do they have altogether?" and days of the week and such other Kindy stuff...I'd say It's a solid 2 grades behind or more on most topics and maybe 1 on others. I also plain dislike it...when it told my kid this is just the way you do it, that was the last straw. It gave no real teaching, no concept, just this is how and just because. :001_huh: There's really no conceptual development and I'd almost equate it to any of the free online math games you can find for practice and I've seen some online that are free that teach way better than TT does purely b/c they introduce concepts. I was sorely unimpressed.

 

My DD's TT5 was certainly no better.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'd say It's a solid 2 grades behind or more on most topics and maybe 1 on others. I also plain dislike it...

 

My DD's TT5 was certainly no better.

 

I would have to agree with this. My dd, after one quarter of ps 4th grade, tested into TT6th based on the placement, although there were several topics covered later in TT5 that she hasn't had at all. For Singapore and MM, she didn't pass the Grade 3 exit exams.

 

I'm now using MM4 as our main program, and TT5 as review for days when I can't be present to help her (I work one day a week and she has to work on her own). It's fine for this purpose; it provides review and practice. It doesn't teach her anything, though - no conceptual understanding, no why it works this way. Just follow the model and do it. In hindsight, I'm sure I could get the same thing (independent practice) from Khan academy or some other free online program.

 

On the up side, DD does enjoy doing it, and since I paid for it, by golly I'm going to let her use it . . . :glare:

[Momling]

My DD finished MM 2b and went to TT5 and came back in at SM 3b. I'd say it's 1-2 years slower than most other programs. It's not inherently a problem in my mind. There's a place for slower paced math.

[NanceXToo]

I know it's not an "advanced" math curriculum. I get that. Really.

 

And yet I always kind of hate to see it getting criticized for being so "BEHIND," potentially scaring people off from using it, and here's why:

 

At the end of last year (5th grade), after one year (our first) of using TT (at grade level, with NO supplements), my pretty non-mathy daughter took a standardized test and her total score was:

 

Total Mathematics - Stanine 7; National Percentile 82.

 

That meant she did as well as or better than 82 percent of other kids who took that standardized test nationwide (and you can be assured they used all different sorts of math curricula, not just "behind" ones like TT- yet she held her own, especially for a non-mathy kid).

 

Those scores were much improved over her previous years scores, but it wasn't just her scores that had improved by leaps and bounds that year.

 

It was her confidence in math.

It was her liking for math.

It was her willingness to do math without complaining.

Without crying.

Without hanging her head and going, "I'm no good at math. This is too hard."

 

If you have a kid who is great at math and likes math and thinks they are good at math, by all means, pick out some "advanced" math curriculum and do your thing.

 

But if you have a kid who feels like maybe they aren't so good at it, like it's hard, or if YOU aren't mathy, or if math is a daily struggle in your house, and you're tired of it, and you've been looking into TT and thinking, "Wow, that could be the answer...."

 

In my experience...you're right. Go for it!

 

DON'T let threads like these put you off and make you feel like, "Oh, no, it's too BEHIND, I'll ruin my kid."

 

You won't.

 

And if you don't want to take just MY word for it, check out this thread I started at the end of last year after I got those standardized test results back. Because a bunch of other people chimed in, too, with their positive results and outcomes after using TT.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259625&highlight=teaching+textbooks+standardized+test

 

But in case you don't want to click on a link or sort through all the replies on that other thread, here are some excerpts for you:

 

"We started using TT last year. This year my daughter's highest standardized test scores were in math. She does not like math at all but she is 2 years above grade level now and I believe it's because of TT. That has never been the case before.

 

My youngest son really likes math so instead of starting him with TT3 for third grade we started with level 4. He is also doing well and his highest scores were in math.

 

I am a firm believer in TT now!

 

Blessings,

Elise in NC"

 

***

 

"We love Teaching Textbooks here too.

 

Ds16 did TT Alg1, TT Alg2, and TT Geo. He took Integrated pre-calc in 10th grade at a public school and hated it. At 16yo he tested firmly into college Calculus. He used to show kids in his calculus class how to do basic algebra, because the way the ps taught it was ridiculous.

 

He is a mathy kid, and the program worked for him too. He just went at a faster pace than non-mathy kids would.

 

He excelled at all of his assesment tests, and understands how to use math out side of the text book."

 

***

 

"My Teaching Textbooks graduate got a 212 on his PSAT (98th percentile in math) and is doing well in Calculus.

 

I don't even think he quite finished Algebra 2"

 

***

 

"I'll add fuel to this; my son has used TT 4, 5, and 6. He scored in the 97th percentile in math on the Terra Nova this year. Last year he was 96th percentile on the Terra Nova, after using TT. Just so you know it is consistent, not just a fluke. I would not consider him a mathy child at all, he has always been a very strong reader, writer, and talker LOL. He is good at math, but it isn't his strongest area.

YAY TT!"

 

***

 

"My youngest son loves TT! He's used TT Math 5, 6, and 7 and is now using TT PreAlgebra.

 

He earned perfect scores on the math section of his 6th grade CAT test just a few weeks ago!"

 

***

 

"We also just got our scores back from the CAT 5.

DD 12 Math Computation-94/ Math concepts- 91..She is one who has struggled in the past with math.

DS 8 Math computation-95/ Math concepts-96...

I have one in college that used TT all the way through Pre-calc and she did well in her college calculus class.

Can you tell I am sold."

 

***

 

And those are just some of the threads about testing (there are more, go check the thread out for yourself if you're interested). You should read all the posts about kids gaining confidence, about math no longer being hated, feared, a struggle and so on. Again, I GET that it's not for everyone. But I HATE seeing the people it IS for being scared off by stuff that isn't even necessarily true or half as true as people make it out to be. This is a GREAT program for a lot of kids. I know, mine's one of them.

[abbeyej]

I would say that the 5th grade (the only level I've used) is about 3-4 semesters behind other programs I've used with my kids (though some would call those "advanced"). I definitely think it introduces many topics 1-2 years later than other programs, and there aren't a lot of problems to do. ... It has been a great *addition* to our math studies for my child who struggles with math. It has given her confidence, and lots of very gentle reinforcement -- with more patience than I sometimes have. But I'm also very glad we don't use it alone. I don't think there would be enough practice for a child who struggles, and I don't think it's got the challenge I would expect for a stronger student. *But* as a piece of the puzzle, I've been very happy with it. (And as a slower, easier reinforcement, I still use it a year ahead of our other math materials.)

[Shellers]

I don't think TT is behind. Perhaps some other math programs are ahead? TT is right in line with what my DS was learning in public school.

 

Last year my son was in 4th grade in public school. My boy is dyslexic and at the time he took the STAR test (California's state testing) he couldn't read more than ten words. My son had no special help on the STAR test for the math portion. He scored "proficient". According to this article only 25% of California 4th graders score proficient. I'm pretty sure he missed all the word problems on the test because he couldn't read but he still scored proficient so I know he's good at math. I'm also sure if he had the word problems read aloud to him, he would have gotten most of them correct and his math score would have been higher.

 

We started homeschooling Nov 1, 2011. I purchased TT5 for his math curriculum. He had already learned some of the material covered in TT5 in the two months he was in 5th grade at public school, but everything else was new to him. Some of the math concepts he was struggling to grasp in public school, he understood with TT.

 

We love TT and it's working for my kid. TT makes him feel smart. He struggles in most subjects due to his dyslexia so it's nice to have a program like TT.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Shellers

[Mommy22alyns]

It seems about a year behind for me. Rebecca is doing CLE for her main math and she tested out of about 2/3 of TT 3 at the beginning of this year. And we were being conservative.

[Dolphin]

I know it's not an "advanced" math curriculum. I get that. Really.

 

And yet I always kind of hate to see it getting criticized for being so "BEHIND," potentially scaring people off from using it, and here's why:

 

At the end of last year (5th grade), after one year (our first) of using TT (at grade level, with NO supplements), my pretty non-mathy daughter took a standardized test and her total score was:

 

Total Mathematics - Stanine 7; National Percentile 82.

 

 

:iagree:

My son was behind in Math and TT is catching him up. He is also enjoying Math now.

 

*I* think TT is on level, it is not ahead. It might not be excellent, it might not be ahead, but it is a good program and we are happy with it, as are many on these boards

[mothergooseof4]

We use it and love it. I do supplement because I am a math person and no one math will satisfy me. (I was an accountant in my pre-mommy days) I would even do three programs but my kids would all run away. TT has a place in our home. All of my kids do work a year ahead though.

 

I originally started it with my oldest because we butt heads over math. This brought peace for us. My younger two then requested TT. I explained that it would be done in addition to the programs they were already using and they were okay with that. We do both many days, but only one on days we have a heavier load in other subjects or need to get out of the house early.

Edited January 29, 2012 by mothergooseofthree

[chepyl]

We just started 2b in Singapore. My son would easily score 100% on the TT 3 placement test. He would get a 50% on the TT 4 placement test. Some of the material for that is not covered until SM 3a&b. I have read that SM is considered to be a year ahead of most PS programs. So if you look at it that way, TT is in line with the PS, it just depends ob what kind of kid you have. How they learn math, do they need the why? I know many people who are happy with the program.

[Ellie]

It isn't "behind." There are way too many testimonials from people whose dc have done well on standardized tests and in college and the whole thing for me to believe it is "behind." :)

[gramlingk]

We have used TT for years. I am an upper level Math tutor and I find the program pretty comprehensive. We do often skip a lot of the review in the beginning of the year as we review during the summer and don't need this. As a result, we sometimes finish math early for the year and are ready to start a new grade level. We have always been working a grade or two above what they would be in in ps but they are working ahead in other subjects, too, so I wouldn't consider that the program is behind but that as homeschoolers they are able to move faster in general than students in ps. BTW, we LOVE TT!

[NanceXToo]

It isn't "behind." There are way too many testimonials from people whose dc have done well on standardized tests and in college and the whole thing for me to believe it is "behind." :)

 

Maybe people worry it might be "behind" because they're comparing it to something advanced.

 

Maybe they worry it might be "behind" because the program does such a good job of explaining it, that kids tend to find it easy. (Personally, I think that's great)!

 

Maybe they worry it might be "behind" because the program constantly reviews stuff previously introduced, while simultaneously introducing new stuff each lesson, so parents might see some of that review stuff and think "they're still doing that?"

 

Maybe they worry it might be "behind" because it keeps getting a bad rap on the Internet with a bunch of people going "I heard it's behind...."

 

I don't know. But a lot of our kid's test scores are saying otherwise. A lot of parents and kids are saying good things about it. Again, I won't claim it's advanced. But I won't believe it's years behind like so many try to say. If it was, my daughter wouldn't have done so well on her standardized test. I also saw the math homework a cousin of hers was doing from same grade public school and it looked no more advanced than what she was doing.

 

My suggestion is if you have reason to be interested in this program, try it for yourself without letting the naysayers scare you off. I'm really glad that's what I did!

[AK_Mom4]

I agree with Nance. :iagree:

 

I am just going to say it - TT isn't behind. Singapore is definitely 1-2 years AHEAD of what is taught in the public schools here. Folks get caught up comparing sequence ( "my kid learned THAT in grade 1 and TT doesn't teach that until grade 3!") when you really need to look at scope AND sequence. Any time you change math publishers, there will be gaps in the sequence between the two programs. What you want to look at as well is whether the program teaches everything it needs to along the way (scope).

[shinyhappypeople]

I used McRuffy 1 for older DD, younger DD completed McRuffy K and 1. Both are now in TT3 and doing well.

 

As for being behind... maybe 1/2 a grade behind a typical PS textbook's scope & sequence (remember, though, that just because it's in the PS textbook doesn't mean the teacher has time to get to it during the school year) There is A LOT of review in the beginning. I found this useful because it has helped fill in gaps. YMMV.

 

They cover some topics later than some other programs, but eventually (over multiple levels) everything is addressed.

 

By the end of TT3 they'll have covered basic multiplication facts all the way up to multiplying larger numbers (e.g. 43 x 5). It introduces division but, as far as I can tell, doesn't go deep with it. You can check out the Table of Contents to get a better feel.

 

I was pleasantly surprised to see that it matches up fairly well with the state standards / STAR testing I have to deal with (CA). There are a few gaps, but nothing that would cause my DD to be overwhelmingly behind her same-age peers in PS. And, like I mentioned earlier, those gaps are eventually addressed.

[Veritaserum]

We tried it and returned it for a refund. It was not comprehensive/in depth enough for my liking and moved more slowly than was necessary for my dd. We tried it because we were desperate for a math solution for my math-struggling dd. After we returned TT5 (which was thankfully very easy--good company to work with), I took her through MM 1-3, part of 4, and then switched her to CLE 500. She is now in CLE 600 and is in 6th grade. She took a 6th grade state math assessment a few months ago. The questions on the test were overall slightly tougher than what she had been doing in CLE 500, but she did well. I expect her to do even better on the end-of-year state exam.

 

In the end TT was not a good solution for our family. It does seem "behind" when compared to what our state standards at least claim to be teaching. My larger concern was that it is more algorithm-based than concepts-based. CLE is what I use for my less mathy kids. MM is what I use for my mathy kids. I actively teach a lesson/concept until my kids understand.

[Kim in SouthGa]

I agree with the placement tests not being a true measure of what is covered in the text. When my son finished Horizons 3, he tested into TT6 or 7-he was in 4th grade. I put him in TT 5 and it has been just right. Enough new material that I didn't feel like it was a waste, but enough review of concepts he was having trouble with to get him solid on them.

If I have learned anything in the last 11 years of homeschooling, it is that each child is different. I have 3 kids doing math and all three using different programs. Horizons has been perfect for my daughter, who is strong in math and self-motivated. It was a nightmare for my younger son, who is thriving with TT. He needs the immediate feedback. It would send him over the edge to have a bunch of corrections to do at the end of the day.

Enough homeschool companies/spokes people that I trust endorse if for me to feel comfortable with it. If you use it a year ahead, that leaves senior year for a more advanced text or dual enrollment college algebra.

 

If you have a really strong math student, it is probably not going to matter what you use, fortunately. :) TT cd rom lectures and self-grading is a huge time saver if you have multiple kids.

[Chrysalis Academy]

"Behind" is by definition a relative concept, isn't it? I think the OP's question was, Is TT behind with respect to the other programs out there? And so I think it's legitimate for those of us who have found it to be "behind" compared to other programs with which we have experience to respond with our observations, particularly with specific examples comparing it with other programs we have used. Likewise, if you have not found it to be "behind" compared to other programs, you should say so. That's what the OP was asking.

 

Here's what I don't get: I haven't been around the Hive that long, but I notice that whenever TT comes up, there seem to be unusually *strong* reactions on both sides. People either really love this program, or really hate it. And people who love it seem to get very defensive when others criticize it. I've not seen this strong, and polarized, of a reaction to other curricula - ok, maybe Saxon ;). Am I hallucinating about this?

 

I use TT, and I think it has strengths and weaknesses. I use MM too, and I adore it, but if anyone criticizes it, or says it doesn't work for them, I don't feel roused to passionately defend it.

 

I'm honestly curious - I'm not trying to criticize anyone's reactions or step on anyone's toes. I'm just trying to understand the dynamic.

[shinyhappypeople]

Maybe people worry it might be "behind" because they're comparing it to something advanced.

 

Maybe they worry it might be "behind" because the program does such a good job of explaining it, that kids tend to find it easy. (Personally, I think that's great)!

 

Maybe they worry it might be "behind" because the program constantly reviews stuff previously introduced, while simultaneously introducing new stuff each lesson, so parents might see some of that review stuff and think "they're still doing that?"!

 

I think that's a HUGE issue. TT3 in particular reviews some very basic topics. But that's not all it covers! For kids that need and enjoy review, this approach is awesome.

 

At the end of the day this whole discussion of "behind" or "ahead" is pointless. This is not a race! Take the placement test, use common sense and meet your child where he or she is at.

[Princess Peach]

Considering TT3 for my 2nd grader had word problems like "If Sam has 3 stamps and Judy has 5, how many do they have altogether?" and days of the week and such other Kindy stuff...I'd say It's a solid 2 grades behind or more on most topics and maybe 1 on others. I also plain dislike it...when it told my kid this is just the way you do it, that was the last straw. It gave no real teaching, no concept, just this is how and just because. :001_huh: There's really no conceptual development and I'd almost equate it to any of the free online math games you can find for practice and I've seen some online that are free that teach way better than TT does purely b/c they introduce concepts. I was sorely unimpressed.

 

My DD's TT5 was certainly no better.

 

My oldest did TT7 last year and is currently in the middle of TT Pre-Alg this year. The bolded has not been our experience at all. It is very conceptual to the point of being a bit annoying to my DS who is very much a "get to the point" type of kid. :001_smile:

 

I always find it funny that TT gets a bad rap from some on this board for being behind grade level. I thought we weren't supposed to care about grade level, but ability level? :D

[jelbe5]

We love TT here! We are using several different levels here. My children like it and it is building confidence. And this non-mathy mom is also receiving good review and a better understanding of Algebra!:001_smile:

[NanceXToo]

Rose,

Some people tend to worry about things being behind public schools or state standards when they say "behind" and don't necessarily mean behind more specifically advanced homeschool curricula, otherwise I would think the question would be "Is TT advanced?" (no), not "Is TT behind?" (also no). I think it's on the level, not behind.

 

It's not that I feel defensive of it, it's that I don't want people who would truly benefit from it to miss out because of misguided fears. Until you've had a child who hangs their head telling you they're no good at math, math is too hard, and they're bad at it, and then see this amazing transformation, and it's because of this program, which didn't put them "behind" at all but caught them up, maybe it's hard to get, but maybe that's why it's so polarizing. It's hard not to want to explain that to parents you see being "warned off" all the time, just so they can hear the other side, too.

[forty-two]

Here's what I don't get: I haven't been around the Hive that long, but I notice that whenever TT comes up, there seem to be unusually *strong* reactions on both sides. People either really love this program, or really hate it. And people who love it seem to get very defensive when others criticize it. I've not seen this strong, and polarized, of a reaction to other curricula - ok, maybe Saxon ;). Am I hallucinating about this?

 

I use TT, and I think it has strengths and weaknesses. I use MM too, and I adore it, but if anyone criticizes it, or says it doesn't work for them, I don't feel roused to passionately defend it.

 

I'm honestly curious - I'm not trying to criticize anyone's reactions or step on anyone's toes. I'm just trying to understand the dynamic.

 

No, you're not hallucinating ;). And TT isn't even the only math program who inspires fighting words :tongue_smilie: - fights have started over if CLE qualifies as "conceptual math", too :D. I love being on a board where we come to blows over math programs :lol:.

 

My best guess is that, as WTM attracts a lot of academically oriented, inclined to overachieving types, the idea that we are choosing a substandard program, especially for something as core as math, feels like a failure in parenting. Also, I think people take it extra badly b/c with TT (and CLE) b/c just about all the really prominent math gurus on the board aren't fans. So that reinforces the less than feeling. MM is pretty well established here as a "good", "conceptual" program, so it's not really threatening if people don't like it.

 

Random musings :auto:.

[NanceXToo]

Hm. That was interesting armchair psycho-analyzing, but I most definitely don't feel like a failure as a parent or have any sort of "less than" feeling over my choice of math curriculum no matter what the "math gurus" on this board think of it. In fact, I probably couldn't even name more than one of the "math gurus" on this board" as I've only paid attention to what works for my child when it comes to math and shared that experience for no other reason than to hopefully help others who might also benefit from it. If people get something out of that (and I already know for a fact some have), great! If not, they'll move on to something else, and that's fine, too. I'm glad we all have options open to us and the opportunity to hear about these different experiences in making our decisions. Why question those motives? I don't get it.

[Hedgehogs4]

Hm. That was interesting armchair psycho-analyzing, but I most definitely don't feel like a failure as a parent or have any sort of "less than" feeling over my choice of math curriculum no matter what the "math gurus" on this board think of it. In fact, I probably couldn't even name more than one of the "math gurus" on this board" as I've only paid attention to what works for my child when it comes to math and shared that experience for no other reason than to hopefully help others who might also benefit from it. If people get something out of that (and I already know for a fact some have), great! If not, they'll move on to something else, and that's fine, too. I'm glad we all have options open to us and the opportunity to hear about these different experiences in making our decisions. Why question those motives? I don't get it.

 

Could we get a "like" button like facebook has? Sometimes I just want to give a thumbs-up without a whole response. Like now. :001_smile:

[TranquilMind]

You're not wrong. I was looking at math curriculum for dd (I don't like Saxon) , and everything on the Teaching Textbooks placement test for testing into third grade was covered in first grade on the Singapore placement tests.

But is that necessarily better?

 

I don't think so. It might be great for one naturally-mathy kid, and frustratingly disastrous for another, making him hate math for life.

 

Not sure. We jumped around to different math programs when the kids were little. Oldest was behind a year and did TT 8 in TWO WEEKS before entering high school.

 

She was asked to enter the honors Math program after her first semester in Algebra. WHAT? MY daughter? She hated math. But she got it, and it totally came together in TT.

 

Go figure.

 

My son is in an advanced math class at his co-op, that he was invited to join. He's whipping through stuff now at 12 that I can't do and has every intention of completing calculus in high school, or whatever is after that. I don't even know. (Disclaimer: they DO have a mathmatically oriented father, so genes are some part of it. NOT my genes).

 

Both used TT. So....there's my two cents. It can be ok for some kids. Pushing high levels of math early can be bad. You have to decide what works for your kid.

[Homeschooling6]

Hm. That was interesting armchair psycho-analyzing, but I most definitely don't feel like a failure as a parent or have any sort of "less than" feeling over my choice of math curriculum no matter what the "math gurus" on this board think of it. In fact, I probably couldn't even name more than one of the "math gurus" on this board" as I've only paid attention to what works for my child when it comes to math and shared that experience for no other reason than to hopefully help others who might also benefit from it. If people get something out of that (and I already know for a fact some have), great! If not, they'll move on to something else, and that's fine, too. I'm glad we all have options open to us and the opportunity to hear about these different experiences in making our decisions. Why question those motives? I don't get it.

 

:iagree:with the whole post. Just wanted to 2nd that I don't feel like a failure as a parent or have the 'less than' feeling for choosing TT math for three of my dc.

[jennynd]

I always like how TT looks like. just can't sped that much money.

I do agree TT is behind. when DS finhed SM 5, he placed into algebra and he just newly finished SM6. he placed in Algebra 2. (He does do key to algebra on the side)

HOWEVER, why is the TT "number" really matter? you work on your speed and place your dc accordingly. Add some supplement for word problems. you are all set

[Shellers]

:iagree:with the whole post. Just wanted to 2nd that I don't feel like a failure as a parent or have the 'less than' feeling for choosing TT ....

 

I'll 3rd that! :)

[HFClassicalAcademy]

We have been on the Saxon Math trail since the beginning. My oldest starting falling behind a little at a time...not entirely because he was bad at math, but because he was starting to HATE math. I don't know why most people think that math is supposed to be hard and complicated.

 

We got to SM 5/4 and I finally threw the towel in. It was day after day of crying and complaining because of math. So I switched him to TT 4 (he's in 4th grade). He's been doing it for a few months and is almost caught up in the lessons since having started it late in the year. But guess what?? He likes math now! Ok...he doesn't love it. But there are no more tears, no more complaining. Yes...TT does seem to be moving a little slower than Saxon, but he is grasping the concepts and doing great.

 

I agree with so many on this board. Don't get turned off because TT doesn't seem difficult and challenging or because it seems to be "behind." For me and my child...it was a just what we needed. And honestly, sometimes it seems that parents are so bent on having their kids so advanced and "ahead" that they dismiss good programs that could make their kids actually enjoy what they are doing.

 

TT is working for us. I don't know if I'll use it for my other kids...but I won't rule it out. I love that homeschooling lets me tailor our curriculum for what works for each individual child!

 

Liz

[Chrysalis Academy]

Rose,

Some people tend to worry about things being behind public schools or state standards when they say "behind" and don't necessarily mean behind more specifically advanced homeschool curricula, otherwise I would think the question would be "Is TT advanced?" (no), not "Is TT behind?" (also no). I think it's on the level, not behind.

 

It's not that I feel defensive of it, it's that I don't want people who would truly benefit from it to miss out because of misguided fears. Until you've had a child who hangs their head telling you they're no good at math, math is too hard, and they're bad at it, and then see this amazing transformation, and it's because of this program, which didn't put them "behind" at all but caught them up, maybe it's hard to get, but maybe that's why it's so polarizing. It's hard not to want to explain that to parents you see being "warned off" all the time, just so they can hear the other side, too.

 

Makes sense. It can definitely feel intimidating when you check something out, think it might work for your kid, and then read that a bunch of people don't like it . . . I love getting advice from the Hive, and have gotten great advice so far, but at the same time I can see how important it is to keep your eye on the prize: what's best for *your* kid, not what has been approved by others. Otherwise, why homeschool in the first place? Another poster pointed out that it's the beauty of homeschooling, being able to tailor your materials and teaching to your own child. (i'd quote, but i don't know how to quote more than once in the same post :tongue_smilie:).

 

Anyway, interesting discussion. And, if it makes you feel any better, Nance, I picked TT because of your rave reviews about it a couple of months back!! ;)

Edited January 30, 2012 by rroberts707

[Dolphin]

Makes sense. It can definitely feel intimidating when you check something out, think it might work for your kid, and then read that a bunch of people don't like it . . . I love getting advice from the Hive, and have gotten great advice so far, but at the same time I can see how important it is to keep your eye on the prize: what's best for *your* kid, not what has been approved by others. Otherwise, why homeschool in the first place? Another poster pointed out that it's the beauty of homeschooling, being able to tailor your materials and teching to your own child. (i'd quote, but i don't know how to quote more than once in the same post :tongue_smilie:).

 

Anyway, interesting discussion. And, if it makes you feel any better, Nance, I picked TT because of your rave reviews about it a couple of months back!! ;)

 

Nance might hate this, but she is my TT guru:D

 

I think why I always try to stand up for TT is because it is slammed a lot on these boards. I just want to make sure whenever a negative post about TT comes up, that the other side is represented.

 

I started looking at TT months before I bought it. It is a fair chunk of change, and I didn't want to spend that money on a sub par program. We would have saved months of tears if I had switched earlier. Nance's test scores are what finally got me to dive in.

 

Math went from Tears and frustration to almost favorite subject overnight. I agree that it is not advanced, but if you get the right level for your child, it can make homeschool a totally different experience. It has worked wonders for my child and is catching him up, that is not a behind program. It is a good math option.

 

Nicole

Edited January 30, 2012 by Northwest_Mama

[tomandlorih]

Not all math programs are the same, teach the same stuff in the same order or with the same repitition (or lack thereof) just as not all kids are the same. Hard to compare=D We just started TT3 in addition to MUS and next year are seriously considering adding CTC's Mathmatical Reasoning as well(yes 3! math programs.. lol). DD8 is flying through it(cd's only) and I do think that I would not use it without some supplemental math (which may have been better if we used the textbook too, idk)..

 

It is serving the purpose I intended for it.. to review and approach math in a different way than MUS and to introduce concepts that could be on a standardized test that have not been addressed(as yet.. they could be later) in MUS. AND IT IS FUN!

 

I read a quote in someones siggy one time that I can't quote word for word but the idea was that the best curriculum out there is the one that gets used.. TT every day is much better than a "better" curriculum that gets avoided or is hated and fosters a bad or defeated attitude about math.. Just my $.02

[Kim in SouthGa]

But is that necessarily better?

 

I don't think so. It might be great for one naturally-mathy kid, and frustratingly disastrous for another, making him hate math for life.

 

It can be ok for some kids. Pushing high levels of math early can be bad. You have to decide what works for your kid.

 

:iagree:

[jelbe5]

I read a quote in someones siggy one time that I can't quote word for word but the idea was that the best curriculum out there is the one that gets used.. TT every day is much better than a "better" curriculum that gets avoided or is hated and fosters a bad or defeated attitude about math.. Just my $.02

:iagree:

 

This. Math is now done consistently and without a fight. And I think daily "How I wish I had this program when I was in school! I would have been successful in math!"

[Annabel Lee]

Not all math programs are the same, teach the same stuff in the same order or with the same repitition (or lack thereof) just as not all kids are the same. Hard to compare=D

...

TT every day is much better than a "better" curriculum that gets avoided or is hated and fosters a bad or defeated attitude about math.. Just my $.02

 

:iagree:I've heard TT described as "accessible math, not 'behind' math".

[NanceXToo]

Makes sense. It can definitely feel intimidating when you check something out, think it might work for your kid, and then read that a bunch of people don't like it . . . I love getting advice from the Hive, and have gotten great advice so far, but at the same time I can see how important it is to keep your eye on the prize: what's best for *your* kid, not what has been approved by others. Otherwise, why homeschool in the first place? Another poster pointed out that it's the beauty of homeschooling, being able to tailor your materials and teaching to your own child. (i'd quote, but i don't know how to quote more than once in the same post :tongue_smilie:).

 

Anyway, interesting discussion. And, if it makes you feel any better, Nance, I picked TT because of your rave reviews about it a couple of months back!! ;)

 

Yes, that is it! When I first read about what TT was all about, I was thinking, Oh, this sounds great! This sounds like it could be just what we need in this house! And then I read so many bad things about it right off the bat, about it just not being good enough, being SO behind, that even I was a bit intimidated (and I'm a relatively relaxed homeschooler who is quite confident in her educational style and who doesn't seek a lot of "approval" from the over-achiever types somebody else mentioned when it comes to curriculum stuff...I DO however want something that I think will be effective for MY children).

 

It made me hesitate, all the negative stuff I read about it, thinking it wasn't going to work and was going to set my daughter back so much that it might not be worth even trying, despite the things that were attracting me to it.

 

But I kept digging and came across a page online somewhere of some positive reviews. Mostly people talking about how much it had changed the attitude about math in their house- no more tears, no more "math is too hard, I'm bad at math" comments, no more dreading math; that math had become "fun" and confidence was boosting. And finally I shrugged and said, "I'm going to try it anyway."

 

And I did, and there was an INSTANT change in attitude about math in my house. Suddenly she LIKED it. It wasn't a struggle anymore. She didn't see herself as "bad" at it anymore. Did I sometimes think it looked a little too easy? Yes, but I kept telling myself, "I don't care. Even if this program really IS a year behind and all she does is get back her confidence in math this year and learns to like it and to believe that she can do it, that's good enough for me."

 

But that easy stuff must have been the review and they must keep sneaking new stuff in there, too, because then, as if all that weren't already good enough for me, she scored in the 82nd percentile on her standardized test that year (way better than the previous year's score) and we hadn't even supplemented with a single thing that first year, and I was like, "Wait, what? That's not the score of a kid who is "behind." That's better than average and she loves math now. And *I* don't dread math anymore! Why do people give this program such a bad rap?!"

 

So, yes, like you said, when you find something that you feel can work for your child, and then read that almost everybody else hates it, and blasts it for not being "good enough" and being anywhere from a year to "a few years" behind every other math program out there, that can be intimidating. And a LOT of people would just not buy it based on that. And in this case, because it did so much good for my child, and because my personal experience found that stuff to not actually be the case, I like to be that person who says, hey, don't worry, this can work, give it a shot if you think you have a child who can benefit from it. If that is polarizing...okay. :)

 

People will still keep posting their bad reviews about it.

 

I'll still keep posting my glowing recommendations about it.

 

The board will go on.

 

:lol:

 

Nance might hate this, but she is my TT guru:D

 

I think why I am always try to stand up for TT is because it is slammed a lot on these boards. I just want to make sure whenever a negative post about TT comes up, that the other side is represented.

 

I started looking at TT months before I bought it. It is a fair chunk of change, and I didn't want to spend that money on a sub par program. We would have saved months of tears if I had switched earlier. Nance's test scores are what finally got me to dive in.

 

Math went from Tears and frustration to almost favorite subject overnight. I agree that it is not advanced, but if you get the right level for your child, it can make homeschool a totally different experience. It has worked wonders for my child and is catching him up, that is not a behind program. It is a good math option.

 

Nicole

 

Dolphin! LMAO! :lol::lol: You mean I AM one of the math gurus on this board?! LOL! Anyway. Yeah. Seriously, there have been quite a few people who have told me they tried TT based on either my review of it on my blog, or based on that thread I started here after we got our standardized test results here, and that they were happy they did and wish they had sooner and that it has made their kids happier, math less of a struggle in their house etc etc. And THAT is why I still "stick up for" TT when threads like these come up. Not to try to prove somebody wrong. Not because I like to debate math programs in my spare time for fun (ick!). Simply because I hope it helps somebody make a decision they might otherwise have been too worried to make like I almost was once upon a time. And because it really has made THAT much of a difference in our house. And because it's not just my daughter's math curriculum, it's her whole personality that has changed because of it in a way (all of us know what it can be like for a girl who grows up into a young woman with an "I'm bad at math" mindset, right? She can start believing that from an early age and keep believing it her entire life).

Edited January 30, 2012 by NanceXToo

[hsmamainva]

My youngest son is using it a grade level ahead.

 

He went from BJU Math 3 to TT Math 5 in 4th grade. He's now in 7th and finishing up TT Prealgebra.

 

He loves TT and he's doing well with the program. I have no complaints!

[hsmom]

I was just curious if it was just me compared to other programs. I was not slamming the program, but if it is a year behind from what most say then the Algebra would be prealgebra then ? Just trying to line this all up in my head.

 

I understand every ones need to stand up for it, but really if fell short of what I was asking in order to get 'our' opinion across, which happens on this board way too often. IMO.

 

Anyways thank you all that did answer what I was asking. ((( note to self never ask about TT again)))

[NanceXToo]

I was just curious if it was just me compared to other programs. I was not slamming the program, but if it is a year behind from what most say then the Algebra would be prealgebra then ? Just trying to line this all up in my head.

 

I understand every ones need to stand up for it, but really if fell short of what I was asking in order to get 'our' opinion across, which happens on this board way too often. IMO.

 

Anyways thank you all that did answer what I was asking. ((( note to self never ask about TT again)))

 

Seriously? Are you for real? You asked a question, you got different answers, people explained their answers, and now you're bothered by that, and feel like you should never ask about it again, and now you're explaining that all you were trying to do was get your opinion across and weren't asking an honest question after all and you just wanted people to agree with you? You've got to be kidding. Be more clear next time.

 

ETA: Sorry the variety in responses was so bothersome for you and wasn't what YOU were looking for, but perhaps other people reading this thread in the future will appreciate it some day.

Edited January 30, 2012 by NanceXToo

[hsmom]

I was asking if TT was behind or am a I seeing things. That is it. Not why people use it, not if they feel as if they are harming their children for using it. None of that. It is simple yes it is or no it is not. That is it.

 

Seriously yes I am for real, people on here feel so many curriculum programs are the so perfect that they have to express opinions so strongly that they get away from the actual questions asked on these boards.

 

A simple no I do not believe it is behind, my children love it and works prefect for us. But is seems too many get defensive if something they use is not getting prefect reviews.

[DarlaS]

And if you don't want to take just MY word for it, check out this thread I started at the end of last year after I got those standardized test results back. Because a bunch of other people chimed in, too, with their positive results and outcomes after using TT.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259625&highlight=teaching+textbooks+standardized+test

 

But in case you don't want to click on a link or sort through all the replies on that other thread, here are some excerpts for you:

 

***

 

"My Teaching Textbooks graduate got a 212 on his PSAT (98th percentile in math) and is doing well in Calculus.

 

I don't even think he quite finished Algebra 2"

 

 

 

That was me. My son turned 18 last week, and is now about 1 semester away from completing an AS degree in mathematics. He is a mathy kid though.

[NanceXToo]

I was asking if TT was behind or am a I seeing things. That is it. Not why people use it, not if they feel as if they are harming their children for using it. None of that. It is simple yes it is or no it is not. That is it.

 

Seriously yes I am for real, people on here feel so many curriculum programs are the so perfect that they have to express opinions so strongly that they get away from the actual questions asked on these boards.

 

A simple no I do not believe it is behind, my children love it and works prefect for us. But is seems too many get defensive if something they use is not getting prefect reviews.

 

Well, you know what? You don't get to ask a question on a public message board and then dictate whether people answer it with a "simple yes or no" rather than explaining their reasoning behind it, or responding to other people and elaborating and so on. That's ridiculous. And no, you did NOT phrase it as "Is TT behind or am I seeing things," but even if you DID phrase it that way, people could still say, "No, I disagree, and here's why." That's how a forum works. People discuss things. If you don't want a discussion, don't post on a forum. I am flabbergasted as to why you would be so bothered as to people posting their various opinions and experiences with this program. Why would this POSSIBLY be so upsetting to you that some people are posting that they had great experiences with it and that it made a positive difference in their children's lives?! (WITHOUT putting them "behind" no less!) I explained again and again that it wasn't out of defensiveness and I explained where I was coming from. If my particular response wasn't helpful to YOU, you could always just skim over it and read the next person's, but, again, my particular response might be helpful to somebody ELSE reading this thread. I also completely disagree with you about this thread getting off track. It was completely on track, in my humble opinion. Oh wait, maybe I should throw in a kilt pic to keep it even MORE on track, because that's the way we do things here! :P

Edited January 30, 2012 by NanceXToo

[Dolphin]

I was asking if TT was behind or am a I seeing things. That is it. Not why people use it, not if they feel as if they are harming their children for using it. None of that. It is simple yes it is or no it is not. That is it.

 

Seriously yes I am for real, people on here feel so many curriculum programs are the so perfect that they have to express opinions so strongly that they get away from the actual questions asked on these boards.

 

A simple no I do not believe it is behind, my children love it and works prefect for us. But is seems too many get defensive if something they use is not getting prefect reviews.

 

Joanna,

I don't know why you are upset. Maybe take a deep breath and re-read. This has been quite a civil discussion about whether or not TT is behind and if so how far behind. Some gave you the opinion it is behind, and just how far so, and others have said no it is not behind, it is on level.

As happens with discussions, other questions came up along the way and were answered. I really did not read anything defensive in this post. Someone asked why TT tends to get passionate responses, and those of us who are passionate about TT gave our reasons. I am not being defensive when I calmly defend a program. There is healthy debate and discussion (which I believe this thread has been) and there are the nasty, horrible threads that devolve into negativity. I don't believe this thread has done that.

Nicole

 

ETA: I also said there are a lot of threads that come up slamming TT. I did not say that this thread was one of them. If this had been a slamming TT thread I would have put one positive post up and then moved on. The reason I have continued posting to this thread, was that it was a nice, polite conversation.

 

Nance, Ha ha, you are a math guru :)

Edited January 30, 2012 by Northwest_Mama

[Homeschooling6]

Joanna,

I don't know why you are upset. Maybe take a deep breath and re-read. This has been quite a civil discussion about whether or not TT is behind and if so how far behind. Some gave you the opinion it is behind, and just how far so, and others have said no it is not behind, it is on level.

As happens with discussions, other questions came up along the way and were answered. I really did not read anything defensive in this post. Someone asked why TT tends to get passionate responses, and those of us who are passionate about TT gave our reasons. I am not being defensive when I am calmly defended a program. There is healthy debate and discussion (which I believe this thread has been) and there are the nasty, horrible threads that devolve into negativity. I don't believe this thread has done that.

Nicole

 

I agree with Nicole, I didn't see anyone being defensive. I see people giving reasons as to why it did or didn't work for them.

[Haiku]

 

But if you have a kid who feels like maybe they aren't so good at it, like it's hard, or if YOU aren't mathy, or if math is a daily struggle in your house, and you're tired of it, and you've been looking into TT and thinking, "Wow, that could be the answer...."

 

 

 

This is me and my ds. I have been reluctant to consider TT because of all the negative hype I've heard about it, even though dh and I liked the demo we saw at the homeschool conference. I'm also reluctant to switch because I've already switched from RS to MM. I'm addressing ds's math difficulties in a different way right now, but thinking ahead to the end of MM, I am considering TT for my son after 6th grade. I know at 9 he's too young for me to decide his future, but I don't see him going into a science/math-heavy field (that's dd 10), so TT might be just the thing for him.

 

Tara

Edited January 30, 2012 by TaraTheLiberator