I am distraught. RAD related

[Jaybee]

I have read this entire thread with both great interest and sadness. We adopted our ds8 internationally when he was almost 4yo. The adjustments have not been easy, and there are some minor "issues", but overall, he is a very healthy little boy emotionally, and I believe the outlook for him and for our relationship with him is very positive. Even so, it hasn't been easy, and we reacted to him differently than we expected. My own anger sometimes took me by surprise. Our agency "did" prepare us--we were required to read certain books, go through online training courses, etc. All that to say, I believe it is an agency's (and adoptive parents') moral responsibility to put the information out there! While the information made us nervous and sometimes outright scared, there is a part of me that feels that if adoptive parents can be scared off, they "should" be. Even with agencies that try to prepare the parents, some people will not hear it, and are unwilling to see that their child may need either more than they are giving, or at least a different approach.

 

Our lives are deeply blessed by our little boy--he is a fun-loving, laughing, cheerful fellow. People may see that, and not realize that there are wounds. There are other children who have much deeper ones, and they need parents too; but they need parents who know there may be a lot of hard work involved in parenting their children and helping them heal. I do not think there should be guilt if one feels he/she cannot adopt considering the possibilities; it is part of being realistic in providing for the needs of a child, as well as the needs of the children who are already in the home.

[Denisemomof4]

I have read this entire thread with both great interest and sadness. We adopted our ds8 internationally when he was almost 4yo. The adjustments have not been easy, and there are some minor "issues", but overall, he is a very healthy little boy emotionally, and I believe the outlook for him and for our relationship with him is very positive. Even so, it hasn't been easy, and we reacted to him differently than we expected. My own anger sometimes took me by surprise. Our agency "did" prepare us--we were required to read certain books, go through online training courses, etc. All that to say, I believe it is an agency's (and adoptive parents') moral responsibility to put the information out there! While the information made us nervous and sometimes outright scared, there is a part of me that feels that if adoptive parents can be scared off, they "should" be. Even with agencies that try to prepare the parents, some people will not hear it, and are unwilling to see that their child may need either more than they are giving, or at least a different approach.

 

Our lives are deeply blessed by our little boy--he is a fun-loving, laughing, cheerful fellow. People may see that, and not realize that there are wounds. There are other children who have much deeper ones, and they need parents too; but they need parents who know there may be a lot of hard work involved in parenting their children and helping them heal. I do not think there should be guilt if one feels he/she cannot adopt considering the possibilities; it is part of being realistic in providing for the needs of a child, as well as the needs of the children who are already in the home.

 

this is key. KEY. Some parents SHOULD be scared off, as should some foster parents. Nobody talks about or cares how many lives are ruined, or close, due to these kids. If the child can't be helped and never bonds, was anyone better off?

 

The adoption forums are filled with families dealing with more than they can handle. They are filled with countless families bullied by a toddler. They ate filled with moms afraid of their adopted son as a teen, and by that time most of the marriages are over. Through the years there has been an unacceptable number of discussions about what adoption did to their bio kids, the moms health, the marriages.

 

A forever home for a child, or a long term placement, is all most people think about. Mistake #1

 

I know I had every intention of going back to China for another dd so ours wouldn't be the only adopted or the only Chinese person in our family. I don't need to say that there's no chance of that happening, nor will I ever foster like I thought I would.

[jillian]

You I've read this entire thread and I have expressed a lot to Denise via PM. As I told her the other day, I am in a Marriage and Family Therapy program, Masters degree. We had one mention in all of my classes (undergrad in Psychology--never) of RAD and that was a student project. Now my university is not a slack/wash/easy going university. My program was through Chapman University (University College which is their program that they offer to various places along the west coast and especially military bases for distance education but it's all Chapman approved/sanctioned) and we only had one mention of RAD. I bet that there are other programs around the country producing the same level of "education" about RAD.

 

The only reason we even discussed it was because we had a woman who worked with DSHS/CPS who knew about RAD and had seen it firsthand and she gave a student project on it. Can you believe that? We spend far more time learning about ADHD and Autism Spectrum Diagnosis in every. single. class. than something about RAD even when we had many students interested in working with the foster system/DSHS/CPS/adoption counseling/etc.

 

eta: there should be a know after the you in the beginning

Edited January 29, 2012 by jillian

[Denisemomof4]

The education of RAD needs to change on EVERY level, Jillian.

 

Agencies, state and private, for profit and non, adoption or foster care, know what they are doing, know what they are setting families up for, know the lies they are telling. It needs to stop.

 

I also think there should be VERY strict rules and guidelines/policies in place for families who have kids in the house already, whether well adjusted adopted kids or bio, and In my opinion, children should only be placed in the home if they are younger than all other kids. At least my RAD is the youngest. If she wasn't, we probably would have disrupted by now.

 

We will get beyond this situation. We always do. I think why it hit me so hard this time is that I just don't see her EVER changing. A therapist I've spoken to recently was a dear and was HONEST and had the guts to tell me so.

[cathmom]

You I've read this entire thread and I have expressed a lot to Denise via PM. As I told her the other day, I am in a Marriage and Family Therapy program, Masters degree. We had one mention in all of my classes (undergrad in Psychology--never) of RAD and that was a student project. Now my university is not a slack/wash/easy going university. My program was through Chapman University (University College which is their program that they offer to various places along the west coast and especially military bases for distance education but it's all Chapman approved/sanctioned) and we only had one mention of RAD. I bet that there are other programs around the country producing the same level of "education" about RAD.

 

The only reason we even discussed it was because we had a woman who worked with DSHS/CPS who knew about RAD and had seen it firsthand and she gave a student project on it. Can you believe that? We spend far more time learning about ADHD and Autism Spectrum Diagnosis in every. single. class. than something about RAD even when we had many students interested in working with the foster system/DSHS/CPS/adoption counseling/etc.

 

My dh is pretty knowledgable about the mental health field through his job, and he had never heard of RAD until I told him about this thread last night. However, he does not work with children, so maybe that's why.

[jillian]

The education of RAD needs to change on EVERY level, Jillian.

 

Agencies, state and private, for profit and non, adoption or foster care, know what they are doing, know what they are setting families up for, know the lies they are telling. It needs to stop.

 

I also think there should be VERY strict rules and guidelines/policies in place for families who have kids in the house already, whether well adjusted adopted kids or bio, and In my opinion, children should only be placed in the home if they are younger than all other kids. At least my RAD is the youngest. If she wasn't, we probably would have disrupted by now.

 

We will get beyond this situation. We always do. I think why it hit me so hard this time is that I just don't see her EVER changing. A therapist I've spoken to recently was a dear and was HONEST and had the guts to tell me so.

Absolutely it needs to change. I think that schools are doing a great disservice to new therapists. I mean you've got people out there who are going into the field and practice without the adequate tools to help families.

 

My dh is pretty knowledgable about the mental health field through his job, and he had never heard of RAD until I told him about this thread last night. However, he does not work with children, so maybe that's why.

I am about to go out and do my internship for my degree (need to set it up but dh has been gone for work since before Christmas so I needed to put that on hold). In my very humble opinion I feel that we need to be covering what is in the DSM during our education kwim? You can't pick and choose what is "important" to cover for students. As a marriage and family therapist we are going to see families right? That means that chances are we will see families with adoptive children and the trials and tribulations that come with that. I think every mental health professional needs more education with some of these things, especially RAD and how it may present, and what it might look like.

[TravelingChris]

I have been reading this thread with great interest and with sadness. Before I was a homeschooling mom, I was in the Criminal justice field. One big part of the prison population is psychopaths. Most psychopaths are not like Ted Bundy or other serial killers. But they are people who do not have consciences. There has been a great debate in Criminology on how this happens. We knew they had differences in the brains but from what? Well psychopaths hardly ever come from biological, regular families. Time and time again, you see multiple placements, foster homes, mothers who were mentally ill or drug or alcohol abusers, adoptive children, etc. Now I am starting to suspect RAD as a potential cause.

 

I have been considering going back to grad school and finishing my PhD in a few years, after last daughter is going to college. I will have to figure it out depending on my health. But if I do go back, I am thinking that I may want to study RAD people and CJ system.

[TravelingChris]

Some people are upset that we are discussing this because it will decrease adoptions. Well, yes, maybe. But here is the thing- people are adopting children from foreign countries where many times the orphanage system is a wreck. Not all countries are like that as someone pointed out that in South Korea, their child was raised by a foster mom. Pointing families to good adoptions versus risky adoptions would be a good start. Educating parents is another essential element. But one more warning that needs to be made is for the people adopting older children in particular but really all the kids over 6 months that have older children in the home already about what can happen. How, if you have a child with serious problems =like RAD and some others, it will really affect your family negatively. The fact that 70% of parents with a RAD child divorce is just the most obvious statistic. The pain and changed lifestyle of the older kids is something to really seriously consider.

 

I would now, knowing about Denise here and about another family in person, never recommend adopting anything over an infant if you have older children unless it is a foster to adoption where you can easily return the child if serious issues arise and where you can make sure the blending of your family will work. I knew a few families that did the foster to adoption process and they had successful adoptions. But of course, that only works for kids here.

[cathmom]

Some people are upset that we are discussing this because it will decrease adoptions. Well, yes, maybe. But here is the thing- people are adopting children from foreign countries where many times the orphanage system is a wreck. Not all countries are like that as someone pointed out that in South Korea, their child was raised by a foster mom. Pointing families to good adoptions versus risky adoptions would be a good start.

 

And instead of these countries having to deal with this in their own country, they are adopting out to the United States and washing their hands of the problem.

[Haiku]

If the child can't be helped and never bonds, was anyone better off?

 

Regardless of the "every child deserves a family" mantra, some kids are better off without one. Some kids just don't have what it takes, mentally, emotionally, and psychologically, to live in a family. Some kids do better in an institutional setting.

 

My dd is in school for the sole reason that she can't handle the intimacy of homeschooling. That's the only reason. She can't handle the emotional closeness and reciprocity inherent in a homeschooling environment. She cant handle emotional reciprocity, period. She functions much better as a relatively anonymous cog.

 

Tara

[Denisemomof4]

I have been reading this thread with great interest and with sadness. Before I was a homeschooling mom, I was in the Criminal justice field. One big part of the prison population is psychopaths. Most psychopaths are not like Ted Bundy or other serial killers. But they are people who do not have consciences. There has been a great debate in Criminology on how this happens. We knew they had differences in the brains but from what? Well psychopaths hardly ever come from biological, regular families. Time and time again, you see multiple placements, foster homes, mothers who were mentally ill or drug or alcohol abusers, adoptive children, etc. Now I am starting to suspect RAD as a potential cause.

 

I have been considering going back to grad school and finishing my PhD in a few years, after last daughter is going to college. I will have to figure it out depending on my health. But if I do go back, I am thinking that I may want to study RAD people and CJ system.

 

When dd was 3 and she tried to kill my cat, and talked about is as nonchalantly and with no emotion as anyone could, I think I had a breakdown. I'm quite certain I did. I was terrified and had no idea what we had gotten oursellves into. This was when I turned to my first RAD therapist. Her words are as clear now as they were 5 years ago. "Denise, she doesn't want to hurt the cat. She's just feeling really bad inside.". What the heck does one do with that? We paid so much out of pocket for her. She had a great reputation so I kept going to her.

 

Again I felt that I was on my own, so I started to read about therapy animals. I've had dd involved in some of our animal care, under the closest supervision you can possibly imagine, for a long time.

 

I was hoping to do therapeutic riding, but when I noticed the pattern of her purposefully spooking our pony, either with dd12 on him or not, that was the end of that. The day Squirt reared up with dd12 on him was the last time she got within 15 - 20 feet of him. On clear weather days if it's not too cold, she watches us do our barn chores from outside. She can come inside to spend time with the animals only when I'm not too busy to watch her.

 

She loves our pigs. Even as a baby just home from China, she loved our potbelly pigs. I have her feed them, groom them, c

Massage their bellies. We drove to NY to adopt a baby pig, and I told her how much this baby needed us, etc. She has always been good with the pigs. (which is why I got her that stupid pig clock)

 

Still, with all the work I've done with her and animals, I do think there is some improvement, but I will never take a chance and leave her unattended with an animal.

 

They say that kids who hurt animals often times ending up committing serious crimes. Well, why not start there? Help these kids? Not even RAD THERAPISTS do. They know that hurting animals is one of the symptoms. I never received any input on that, either, I had fop to find a way to try to help on my own.

[Denisemomof4]

And instead of these countries having to deal with this in their own country, they are adopting out to the United States and washing their hands of the problem.

 

Don't get me started.

[MariannNOVA]

Some people are upset that we are discussing this because it will decrease adoptions. Well, yes, maybe. But here is the thing- people are adopting children from foreign countries where many times the orphanage system is a wreck. Not all countries are like that as someone pointed out that in South Korea, their child was raised by a foster mom. Pointing families to good adoptions versus risky adoptions would be a good start. Educating parents is another essential element. But one more warning that needs to be made is for the people adopting older children in particular but really all the kids over 6 months that have older children in the home already about what can happen. How, if you have a child with serious problems =like RAD and some others, it will really affect your family negatively. The fact that 70% of parents with a RAD child divorce is just the most obvious statistic. The pain and changed lifestyle of the older kids is something to really seriously consider.

 

I would now, knowing about Denise here and about another family in person, never recommend adopting anything over an infant if you have older children unless it is a foster to adoption where you can easily return the child if serious issues arise and where you can make sure the blending of your family will work. I knew a few families that did the foster to adoption process and they had successful adoptions. But of course, that only works for kids here.

 

Totally agree. I've mentioned my cousin who is now in his late 40s. I haven't seen him in I don't know how many years -- he lives with his wife and family out of state.

 

Anyway, my aunt and uncle's marriage was not the best by any means (and maybe that's how they managed to stay together - their marriage was a train wreck from the start) but boy, did adopting B when he was 18 mos old put a different spin on it.

 

I remember being 10 and being at their house with other family and I would observe him and wonder what the flip was up. :001_huh:

 

If I sit and think about it, I will likely remember dozens of incidents that caused everyone in our family to go 'HUH?'

 

One that sticks out in my mind, and is probably the most benign (:glare:) of his carp is this: My aunt and uncle had an above ground pool in their yard - this is probably the late 60s. He 'loved' that pool we were told. One afternoon my aunt is watching him in the pool and hanging laundry on the line or some such thing and she hears a 'sound' and seconds later there is a rush of water -- a big rush of water.

 

He had taken a rake and punched a hole in the side of the pool causing it to collapse and flood not only their backyard but probably 3 others.

 

I could tell stories that would curl your hair -- but I won't.

[Denisemomof4]

Our marriage really started to suffer. Dh and I banded together and became, and have remained, a united front for years. We very easily could have added to that 70% statistic, but I'm glad we both won't allow her to do that to us.

 

Mariann, it's so puzzling that kids with this disorder destroy things they love all the time. I know dd didn't want to lose her Friday social day I host here for both girls, and I made it clear that if she continued to destroy the house, she would. She made her choice.

[cathmom]

Mariann, it's so puzzling that kids with this disorder destroy things they love all the time. I know dd didn't want to lose her Friday social day I host here for both girls, and I made it clear that if she continued to destroy the house, she would. She made her choice.

 

Maybe they destroy them so they won't lose them? Like breaking up with somebody before they can break up with you?

[celticmom]

It's not prevalent in the general population. The only thing that would come to mind with decent parents in the picture is a child who was been hospitalized for a long period as a baby who was in pain that wasn't controlled, or some scenario like that. Since there was nothing the parent could do to relieve the pain and meet the need, the bonding cycle could be interrupted.

 

 

Another situation in which I could imagine parents being helpless to meet the needs of their infant is in the aftermath of a natural disaster. I don't know of any children locally that have had problems this severe from the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina but I would not be surprised if there were.

 

They provided PTSD counselling in the schools but not all of the teachers took the issues very seriously. I do know of at least one child who was pulled from school and one of the issues was his PTSD.

 

My dd was slightly less than a year old when Katrina hit and had some PTSD-like symptoms for years afterward. And we were fortunate, we evacuated(but not far enough) and we had an undamaged house to come back to (just no utilities).

[MariannNOVA]

Our marriage really started to suffer. Dh and I banded together and became, and have remained, a united front for years. We very easily could have added to that 70% statistic, but I'm glad we both won't allow her to do that to us.

 

Mariann, it's so puzzling that kids with this disorder destroy things they love all the time. I know dd didn't want to lose her Friday social day I host here for both girls, and I made it clear that if she continued to destroy the house, she would. She made her choice.

 

Maybe they destroy them so they won't lose them? Like breaking up with somebody before they can break up with you?

 

I totally agree with both of you -- a united front is a necessity. My mom and dad (not to hijack) had to do that when my maternal grandmothr moved in with us when I was 7 after my grandfather died. She was a trouble maker and waws always trying to drive a wedge between them.

 

And, yes, cathmmom - totally agree -- it is a perverse way of taking control -- xh was a champ at that.:glare:

[caedmyn]

This is a bit OT, but are there things that could cause a child to have no conscience besides RAD? The teen I am thinking of doesn't have a history of destroying things or (until recently) hurting people, but he has done some pretty horrific things in the last year or so and to my knowledge has never shown any remorse at any age for anything wrong he has done (including smaller things like lying).

 

ETA: I think what I really mean is, Can someone have RAD without displaying destructive behavior, or is that always a part of RAD?

Edited January 29, 2012 by caedmyn

[Halcyon]

This is my first post on this thread, but it is truly heartbreaking. My heart goes out to Denise and all the other parents who face this every single day.

 

I have a question, and perhaps it was asked earlier in the thread and I missed it. Is there no way you can put your RAD child in an institution? I respectfully understand that this would be a last resort step. But if she/he is ruining your life, your bio children's lives, is that a possibility? I don't even know who would pay for such a thing (I don't suppose the government would, unless the child was deemed a danger). Please forgive my ignorance on matters such as this.

[Denisemomof4]

Maybe they destroy them so they won't lose them? Like breaking up with somebody before they can break up with you?

 

I don't know, they do this with material items as well.

[Denisemomof4]

This is a bit OT, but are there things that could cause a child to have no conscience besides RAD? The teen I am thinking of doesn't have a history of destroying things or (until recently) hurting people, but he has done some pretty horrific things in the last year or so and to my knowledge has never shown any remorse at any age for anything wrong he has done (including smaller things like lying).

 

ETA: I think what I really mean is, Can someone have RAD without displaying destructive behavior, or is that always a part of RAD?

 

Mental illness can come out in teens.

 

My son became out of control after a double concussion. He never admitted that he changed much, but he literally woke up the next day a different person. I took him to several doctors, neurologists, psychologists, and psychiatrists. His brain scans were all normal so there was nothing e medical community could do. He became harder and harder to manage, got multiple school suspensions, etc. He got diagnosed with conduct disorder at 15. I always knew my bio kids may possible have to deal with mental illness as it goes back at least two generations. I did not realize a head injury could bring upon mental illness to those genetically prone.. Again, no medical professionals told me this, I had to find out by doing my own research. Now when imention it to doctors, they do agree with me. None of them told me of this when I was desperately searching for answers and help because he had suddenly become so out of control.

 

Other than drugh, alcohol, or simply the onset of mental Illness, a head injury can bring about sudden change like that.

[Dobela]

This is my first post on this thread, but it is truly heartbreaking. My heart goes out to Denise and all the other parents who face this every single day.

 

I have a question, and perhaps it was asked earlier in the thread and I missed it. Is there no way you can put your RAD child in an institution? I respectfully understand that this would be a last resort step. But if she/he is ruining your life, your bio children's lives, is that a possibility? I don't even know who would pay for such a thing (I don't suppose the government would, unless the child was deemed a danger). Please forgive my ignorance on matters such as this.

To put a child in an institution is very expensive. Most insurances will not pay for it, or will only pay for a 1 time event, or for a minimal number of days (say 30 over a lifetime). But most do not pay. Out of pocket is thousands of dollars per month. To gain admittance, there are many criteria that have to be met as well. Considering how few therapists will actually diagnose the issues, it is very hard to get any diagnosis and without a diagnosis, or the child actually hurting themselves at that very moment, you can't get a child in a facility.

 

So, the state will often pay for institutions but only if the child is in state custody. This means the adoptive parent will have to give up all rights to the child and dissolve the adoption. Since this has to be done thru CPS and the courts, parents who do this after the adoption is final are often threatened with the removal of all other children in the home and threatened with being placed on child abuse and neglect registries. Actually, this is not just a threat, it actually happens.

 

With the girls we had, the then 5 yr old was so violent, even on medication, that the first choice after us was in a private institution. First, there was only one in our state that would consider taking a child that young. Next, after a week, they wanted to release her, back to us, and actually said, "Well, we feel she has been punished enough." Punishment??? Really??? We weren't looking for punishment, we were looking for help, for her and us.

[Denisemomof4]

This is my first post on this thread, but it is truly heartbreaking. My heart goes out to Denise and all the other parents who face this every single day.

 

I have a question, and perhaps it was asked earlier in the thread and I missed it. Is there no way you can put your RAD child in an institution? I respectfully understand that this would be a last resort step. But if she/he is ruining your life, your bio children's lives, is that a possibility? I don't even know who would pay for such a thing (I don't suppose the government would, unless the child was deemed a danger). Please forgive my ignorance on matters such as this.

 

It was touched on earlier. Most of them are private pay. When we checked into them they were around $400 per day. We've spoken to a group home in NH and know what has to happen to qualify, and they said sometimes health insurance will help. I think we may be heading there one day.

 

I admit this one threw me for a loop, and I've spoken about the lives ruined, etc. But honestly, I'm so protective of dd12 now. She is out and away from her sister three days per week, and we take time alone, too. We definitely have our stressful times, but we get over them. If we ever get to the point where things progress from here, changes will have to be made. I will have to research my options at that time.

 

I am still trying to find a family therapist who at least can understand RAD and support us.

 

 

My dd has really come a long way. She is not as bad as she used to be. Still, I've read over and over and over that once hormones hit"....

[happyhomemaker25]

Our marriage really started to suffer. Dh and I banded together and became, and have remained, a united front for years. We very easily could have added to that 70% statistic, but I'm glad we both won't allow her to do that to us.

 

Mariann, it's so puzzling that kids with this disorder destroy things they love all the time. I know dd didn't want to lose her Friday social day I host here for both girls, and I made it clear that if she continued to destroy the house, she would. She made her choice.

 

I often say I am so blessed that hubby first believed me when I said something was wrong. He did not see it for almost a year, but he always took my side. Eventually she found she could not manipulate him and she began showing her true colors. She still treats me the worst, but we still say consistant.

[laundrycrisis]

I am still trying to find a family therapist who at least can understand RAD and support us.

 

Denise, you are amazing. :grouphug: I also admire your courage in sharing your family's experience with RAD with others.

 

I am wondering if there may be a local therapist who has experience helping kids who have suffered severe abuse and neglect. They may not be listed for RAD specifically but if the RAD and the conditions your DD perhaps lived with before her adoption can get a person to some of the same after-effects, maybe a therapist with experience with victims of early childhood abuse/neglect/trauma could help.

 

I am also thinking that if you might be seeking residential placement for her down the road, it may be helpful now to establish a record of both psychological and psychiatric care with her as the patient. This may also help you protect your family against any accusations that might be made against you in the future. :(

 

Also I was wondering if there are any therapeutic day programs she could be part of, where they take children with behavior disorders. It might be better for her, give you a break, and get some other people on her "team" that could observe her behavior, so you and your DH are not isolated with it. Do you think it would show up in a setting like that, or would it only show up at home ?

 

I am very sorry you are living in such a sad and demanding situation, with a sad, angry, hurt little girl, wanting with all your heart to help her, but also having to think about protecting the rest of the family. This must be terribly hard. :grouphug:

[ELaurie]

My heart is touched by your story :grouphug:

 

When you search for a therapist, please try to find someone who is familiar with neurofeedback. I haven't read the entire thread, so please forgive me if this has already been suggested.

 

There is compelling research which suggests that kids with attachment disorders have brains that respond quite differently than "typical" brains; certain areas of the brain have less cerebral blood flow than needed; using neurofeedback, which is a non-invasive form of biofeedback, the kids can learn to increase cerebral blood flow in real time. It's amazing to watch, and the treatment effects are typically sustained over time (this is called hemoencephalography based training). Other forms of training are based upon EEG data (specifically QEEG data, which includes a quantitative analysis - hence the Q) which measures the electrical activity in the brain. Again, kids can be trained to literally change their own brain waves - the research on neurofeedback is very encouraging, and it can be very helpful for kids who are compromised in areas of the brain related to social pragmatics - which includes interpreting, processing and responding to social cues, as well as self regulation. In fact, at it's most basic level, neurofeedback training is self regulation training. PM me or reply below if you have questions. My heart goes out to you and your family.

[Denisemomof4]

My heart is touched by your story :grouphug:

 

When you search for a therapist, please try to find someone who is familiar with neurofeedback. I haven't read the entire thread, so please forgive me if this has already been suggested.

 

There is compelling research which suggests that kids with attachment disorders have brains that respond quite differently than "typical" brains; certain areas of the brain have less cerebral blood flow than needed; using neurofeedback, which is a non-invasive form of biofeedback, the kids can learn to increase cerebral blood flow in real time. It's amazing to watch, and the treatment effects are typically sustained over time (this is called hemoencephalography based training). Other forms of training are based upon EEG data (specifically QEEG data, which includes a quantitative analysis - hence the Q) which measures the electrical activity in the brain. Again, kids can be trained to literally change their own brain waves - the research on neurofeedback is very encouraging, and it can be very helpful for kids who are compromised in areas of the brain related to social pragmatics - which includes interpreting, processing and responding to social cues, as well as self regulation. In fact, at it's most basic level, neurofeedback training is self regulation training. PM me or reply below if you have questions. My heart goes out to you and your family.

 

After doing a TON of research, speaking to NFB providers, speaking to those who sell the equipment, and researching different types of training/equipment, we actually bout all our own. The first round of equipment won't really help dd, the second will, only after extensive training. I just talked to dh about this today and told him it's time to start to budget for this. I hope there are still people who can train us within a cole of hours.

 

After all I read, I'm confident we could do this after learning how to treat from a SPECT scan.

[ELaurie]

After doing a TON of research, speaking to NFB providers, speaking to those who sell the equipment, and researching different types of training/equipment, we actually bout all our own. The first round of equipment won't really help dd, the second will, only after extensive training. I just talked to dh about this today and told him it's time to start to budget for this. I hope there are still people who can train us within a cole of hours.

 

After all I read, I'm confident we could do this after learning how to treat from a SPECT scan.

 

What kind of equipment do you have?

[happyhomemaker25]

what happens to her when she's 18?

 

she has to figure that out.

 

It sounds cold, but if I'm still standing at age 58, my life will no longer be devoted to helping her.

 

THat's how I feel today. Ask me again when she's being the perfect angel to me because she has a hidden agenda.

 

Yep. I can tell you exactly how many days we have left. If course she's been so good lately I find myself holding my breath. Our bad months are quickly approaching and I am getting nervous.

[happyhomemaker25]

I am so glad that Denise is sharing here on the forum - I have learned so' date=' so much as I was completely ignorant of RAD and the degree of "not bonding". I think this information is helpful to all of us to be able to be supportive of any parents of children who suffer with RAD and to help those who are experiencing the behaviors, but don't know what's wrong. BUT ... I can't see how scaring potential adoptive parents into not adopting is helpful - especially to the parents. It's okay to say that some have a problem, but feeding them all this information to this extent, I don't agree with. I'm sure that Denise wishes she had known this possibility - is this true Denise? - but I'm also sure that parents who have adopted children who don't suffer from RAD are very grateful that they didn't know about this possibility ahead of time as they might not now be parenting their child. Do you advise parents who are trying to conceive of all the possible physical, mental, and emotional problems their child may have at birth or as an adolescent? I think most parents would consider that highly unsupportive and perhaps cruel.

 

I guess I'm just such an adoption advocate that the approach you've taken with potential adoptive parents concerns me. JMO. :tongue_smilie:

 

Denise, what would you recommend people do with this information as regards to potential adoptive parents?[/quote']

 

 

I used to be a huge adoption advocate as well. Living with a teen RAD kid has made me a lot more cautious with this, though. Many times I have regretted the adoption.

[misslissa]

Just to set the record straight, the US has 130,000 waiting kids and the US adopts them out to intercountry adoptions. This is a worldwide social problem that includes our country.

 

And instead of these countries having to deal with this in their own country, they are adopting out to the United States and washing their hands of the problem.

[Teachin'Mine]

I used to be a huge adoption advocate as well. Living with a teen RAD kid has made me a lot more cautious with this, though. Many times I have regretted the adoption.

 

 

Just having gotten a tiny glimpse, by what has been shared here on the forum and in some internet searching, into what it can be like, that's thoroughly understandable. :grouphug:

[misslissa]

You may be interested in researching attachment models and how they affect behavior. Attachment seems to always get bunched with adoption but every parent has an attachment style that effects the children they raise and their behavior. Early unhealthy attachment models and broken attachment can severely impair a child's behavior.

 

I have been reading this thread with great interest and with sadness. Before I was a homeschooling mom, I was in the Criminal justice field. One big part of the prison population is psychopaths. Most psychopaths are not like Ted Bundy or other serial killers. But they are people who do not have consciences. There has been a great debate in Criminology on how this happens. We knew they had differences in the brains but from what? Well psychopaths hardly ever come from biological, regular families. Time and time again, you see multiple placements, foster homes, mothers who were mentally ill or drug or alcohol abusers, adoptive children, etc. Now I am starting to suspect RAD as a potential cause.

 

I have been considering going back to grad school and finishing my PhD in a few years, after last daughter is going to college. I will have to figure it out depending on my health. But if I do go back, I am thinking that I may want to study RAD people and CJ system.

[Denisemomof4]

What kind of equipment do you have?

 

I sent you a PM:001_smile:

[Denisemomof4]

I used to be a huge adoption advocate as well. Living with a teen RAD kid has made me a lot more cautious with this, though. Many times I have regretted the adoption.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:although mine is not a teen yet.

[cin]

 

I was shocked when we were at a hotel in China with a lot of other adoptive parents (near where the paperwork is finalized) and the parenting going on there was *terrible*! People walking down the street with their new daughter crying in her stroller. People talking in the elevator about how their new daughter was crying in the night but they didn't "let her win" by picking her up. I couldn't believe it. I really started to wonder if Americans adopting is a good idea given the "cry it out" "tough love" mentality.

 

 

 

What they don't realize is that they WANT Them to cry. Crying means that the baby misses her previous caregiver, to whom she was attached. Tough Love is one thing, and we went through some of those times when they were a bit older, but I always consider the situation. And in that situation, when the baby's world has been turned upside down, well, they have a darn good reason to cry!

[jewellsmommy]

Laurie, thank you for your well informed post.

 

I have gotten silent in this thread because I'm quite overwhelmed at the moment from some of the responses. I do want to reach the world and get the word out about RAD, but to see how many ive touched, those who responded here and privately, through this thread and countless others, i am speechless. Its what i want, but i feel so inadequate to have a voice that big.

 

I will NOT remain silent about RAD. If I can save one family from the nightmare I sometimes live, I will. Again, if I had been educated and knew what to look for, I am confident we would not be in the situation we are now. Everyone should be informed on what to look for, things to do to promote attachment, etc. Why the most basic information is kept from prospective adoptive parents is beyond me.

 

Maybe less adoptions will take place. Most people wont understand how that could be a good thing. If you have your happy bio family, or if you have your happy adoptive family which knows no RAD, this will make you angry.

 

But if you are a couple or a family who was filled with love and dreams but had of them all crushed to smithereens due to RAD, YOU will understand and/or support that statement/idea. Some kids truly are BETTER OFF not being in a family.

 

How many marriages and families have to suffer? I can't believe that with all the information out there that there STILL is no change.

 

About Lauries statement above. With MY RAD, she doesn't want my love or intimacy, but she doesn't want to see it between me and my bio kids, me and my pets, me nd ANYONE/THING. She even tries to set up dh and i to get upset with each other. She has no power there. I have never seen any of this addressed in all my adoption info/resources. It is exhausting and MADDENING to have her lash out if I love her, anyone, or anything. A puppy reaching up to lick my chin as I sit is a target. It is sad, and it is horrendous.

 

I am so thankful to each of you who responded here. You have touched me in a way which is beyond words.

 

And thank you to my sweet,sweet friends who had my back when I logged off for awhile. You guys are AWESOME.

 

 

This is definitely true. We had 2 separate psychiatrists and a therapist eplain to dh and I how an institutional setting can actually be a relief to the severest forms of RAD children. The constant shielding of themselves is a major stress to them. Once in an institutional setting where they are free from the threat of deeper relationships, they actually relax and act like non-RAD kids.

 

I was shocked to learn this. But, it made sense to me and my limited understanding of RAD as explained. Thankfully ds is not one of these of these cases. But, if he truly was and I felt led to go that route, we would have.

[Lovthesurf]

You I've read this entire thread and I have expressed a lot to Denise via PM. As I told her the other day, I am in a Marriage and Family Therapy program, Masters degree. We had one mention in all of my classes (undergrad in Psychology--never) of RAD and that was a student project. Now my university is not a slack/wash/easy going university. My program was through Chapman University (University College which is their program that they offer to various places along the west coast and especially military bases for distance education but it's all Chapman approved/sanctioned) and we only had one mention of RAD. I bet that there are other programs around the country producing the same level of "education" about RAD.

 

The only reason we even discussed it was because we had a woman who worked with DSHS/CPS who knew about RAD and had seen it firsthand and she gave a student project on it. Can you believe that? We spend far more time learning about ADHD and Autism Spectrum Diagnosis in every. single. class. than something about RAD even when we had many students interested in working with the foster system/DSHS/CPS/adoption counseling/etc.

 

eta: there should be a know after the you in the beginning

 

I am in a psych masters program, literally just a thesis away from graduating, and reading through this I was thinking the same thing inly I am fairly certain the hive is the first place I heard of RAD. Although from reading this I realize my friends sister is dealing with a RADish. She adopted twins about 10 yrs ago and some of the things the one twin has been doing since reaching the tween age blew my mind. They have had to put her in a residential placement to protect the other people in the house. I dnt know if anyone has even mentioned RAD to them, I am going to have to ask my friend, but after reading this I guarantee tht is what it is.

My heart goes out to anyne in this situation.

[TravelingChris]

Yes, misslissa, I agree. That is why I specifically said that the prisons aren't full of adoptees but full of psychopaths. (not all by any means, figures I have seen before range from 33% to 40%). It still a very large number and these people had all kinds of bad childhoods. But overwhelmingly, that is the common thread=bad childhoods. Can othe things cause it? Yes, definitely= on the thread about spouses with brain damage and what one would do, I think it was Mrs. Mungo who relayed the story of the person who at an old age started acting very badly= gambling, abusive, spending all the money, etc, etc. Unknown to that spouse, who divorced him, and to anyone else, that was the beginning of Alzheimer's in him. Whether the brain was damaged through bad or no parenting, through disease, or through injury, the same behaviors can happen. The difference is that the TBI patients are often already in the medical system and get institutionalized. The dementia or brain tumor patients also get medical assistance and hospitalizarion or institutionalization. The children who grow up like this are active, energetic, wrecking balls who have years to destroy lives unless something can be done. Apparently, at this time, past very early childhood, the prognosis is very bleak. I do hope that the neurofeedback does do the job.

[Denisemomof4]

Yes, misslissa, I agree. That is why I specifically said that the prisons aren't full of adoptees but full of psychopaths. (not all by any means, figures I have seen before range from 33% to 40%). It still a very large number and these people had all kinds of bad childhoods. But overwhelmingly, that is the common thread=bad childhoods. Can othe things cause it? Yes, definitely= on the thread about spouses with brain damage and what one would do, I think it was Mrs. Mungo who relayed the story of the person who at an old age started acting very badly= gambling, abusive, spending all the money, etc, etc. Unknown to that spouse, who divorced him, and to anyone else, that was the beginning of Alzheimer's in him. Whether the brain was damaged through bad or no parenting, through disease, or through injury, the same behaviors can happen. The difference is that the TBI patients are often already in the medical system and get institutionalized. The dementia or brain tumor patients also get medical assistance and hospitalizarion or institutionalization. The children who grow up like this are active, energetic, wrecking balls who have years to destroy lives unless something can be done. Apparently, at this time, past very early childhood, the prognosis is very bleak. I do hope that the neurofeedback does do the job.

 

I almost agree with everything here. :001_smile: sometimes mental illness or a brain injury can cause one to perceive something that is not accurate or true. While I'm sure the prisons are filled with sociopaths who did have miserable childhoods, I'm also certain that some who had quite easy and good childhoods feel that they had an awful one because of mental illness or a brain injury. And yet even some of those with mental illness perhaps felt they had a bad childhood because the parent didn't know how to parent/treat them differently to meet their needs, because the parent didn't know how to reach the child.

 

I am still trying to digest the fact that those going into the mental health field aren't even educated about RAD. It makes sense that there are so few informed specialists in this area.

 

Chris, here is my thinking about NFB. Maybe it will get dd to a place where she is finally ready to be healed. Nothing else has gotten her to that place yet.

[Tap]

Yes, misslissa, I agree. That is why I specifically said that the prisons aren't full of adoptees but full of psychopaths. (not all by any means, figures I have seen before range from 33% to 40%). It still a very large number and these people had all kinds of bad childhoods. But overwhelmingly, that is the common thread=bad childhoods. Can other things cause it? Yes, definitely= on the thread about spouses with brain damage and what one would do, I think it was Mrs. Mungo who relayed the story of the person who at an old age started acting very badly= gambling, abusive, spending all the money, etc, etc. Unknown to that spouse, who divorced him, and to anyone else, that was the beginning of Alzheimer's in him. Whether the brain was damaged through bad or no parenting, through disease, or through injury, the same behaviors can happen. The difference is that the TBI patients are often already in the medical system and get institutionalized. The dementia or brain tumor patients also get medical assistance and hospitalizarion or institutionalization. The children who grow up like this are active, energetic, wrecking balls who have years to destroy lives unless something can be done. Apparently, at this time, past very early childhood, the prognosis is very bleak. I do hope that the neurofeedback does do the job.

 

One other factor is the generations of families that spend their lives behind bars. Nature vs Nurture. How much is genetics. How many are predisposed from the beginning to have brain chemistry or brain structures that lead to choices that ultimately result in prison.

 

DD5 is my great niece..my sister's, daughter's, daughter. My dd5 has only had limited visitations with her mother. Definitely less than 100 hours her entire life. But there are times that her actions are EXACTLY like her bio-mother. My mother got married at 16yo and had my sister at 17. Had I not known the bio-mom, I would not know this about her. I would not know how much of dd5s issues are nature...not nurture. Most adoptions don't have the luxury, with the adoptive parent having intimate knowledge of a birth parent's mental health history.

 

~My sister's father was abusive and had mental health issues.

~~My sister has mental health issues, especially impulse control issues. My mother divorced the father when my sister was 5yo. My sister didn't really see him after that.

~~~Her daughter has mental health issues, especially impulse control issues.

~~~Her son has mental health issues, especially impulse control issues.

~~~~DD5 has mental health issues, especially impulse control issues. She was not raised by her bio-mother or grandmother.

 

There are at least 4 generations of people who have the same or at least very similar mental illness issues. All but dd (so far, so good at 5yo :) ), have spent time in jail and it seems to get worse with each generation.

 

DD5 has a half-sister that has the same mom. Guess what...at 3yo, she has the same behaviors as dd5 did at that age. It looks like whatever is wrong with dd5, is also wrong with her. So, then as dd5 grows into an adult, if she has her own children, is she predestined to have a child with the same issues? What ever is wrong is persistent and ruins lives. What would you say to someone with this family history who wanted to have a baby? Should she be discouraged from spreading these genes any future into the gene pool?

 

 

I absolutely believe attachment issues, lousy childhoods, abuse/neglect, adoptions, foster care and a myriad of other reasons can cause an increase in likely hood of imprisonment. BUT it makes me wonder, how much of this also boils down to plain ole genetics! There are so many kids who live through rough childhoods, and turn out fine. How is it that it seems to rewire the brain in some kids and not others? I truly believe that genetics has something to do with it.

[Beth.]

I absolutely believe attachment issues, lousy childhoods, abuse/neglect, adoptions, foster care and a myriad of other reasons can cause an increase in likely hood of imprisonment. BUT it makes me wonder, how much of this also boils down to plain ole genetics! There are so many kids who live through rough childhoods, and turn out fine. How is it that it seems to rewire the brain in some kids and not others? I truly believe that genetics has something to do with it.

 

Genetics, yes, but it's also how kids process and perceive the world. I have two kiddos that we adopted as infants (1 home from the hospital, 1 home at 6 weeks). Both were born to competent young women, both from healthy/functioning families, neither exposed to much in-utero, both moms well loved and well cared for by their families while they were pregnant. Our first daughter snuggled down deep in my arms, looked me in the eye and I was her mom from that point on. Our second daughter screams every time the vacuum cleaner is on, cries whenever someone sneezes or blows their nose, fights me on attachment every step of the way, is distraught when I leave her and fights/ignores me when I come home. For whatever reason my oldest has the ability to quickly adapt to the situation, accept it and move on and my youngest fights it every chance she gets. I know both of their bio moms well and I can't pinpoint any behavior in either of them that explains the differences with my kids' attachment.

 

 

OP - Hugs to you. Nobody talks RAD about their sweet China babies. I see a lot of talk in the adoption world about US foster kids and Eastern Europe kiddos having RAD. But, the perception out there for peeps like me (mostly informed, did my research, thought I knew the biggest risks) is that the kids from China are well cared for, treated well while in care and transition easily when they get home. China was our first choice, but we were starting out just as the waits in China were getting longer. We went domestic as our second choice. Thank you for sharing your story.

[Denisemomof4]

Genetics, yes, but it's also how kids process and perceive the world. I have two kiddos that we adopted as infants (1 home from the hospital, 1 home at 6 weeks). Both were born to competent young women, both from healthy/functioning families, neither exposed to much in-utero, both moms well loved and well cared for by their families while they were pregnant. Our first daughter snuggled down deep in my arms, looked me in the eye and I was her mom from that point on. Our second daughter screams every time the vacuum cleaner is on, cries whenever someone sneezes or blows their nose, fights me on attachment every step of the way, is distraught when I leave her and fights/ignores me when I come home. For whatever reason my oldest has the ability to quickly adapt to the situation, accept it and move on and my youngest fights it every chance she gets. I know both of their bio moms well and I can't pinpoint any behavior in either of them that explains the differences with my kids' attachment.

 

 

OP - Hugs to you. Nobody talks RAD about their sweet China babies. I see a lot of talk in the adoption world about US foster kids and Eastern Europe kiddos having RAD. But, the perception out there for peeps like me (mostly informed, did my research, thought I knew the biggest risks) is that the kids from China are well cared for, treated well while in care and transition easily when they get home. China was our first choice, but we were starting out just as the waits in China were getting longer. We went domestic as our second choice. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

Beth, your post really strikes me for two reasons. First off, I have three bio kids. All raised in the same home, all with the same parents. My younger son was different from the start. He was hard for me to connect to. I knew nothing about attachment at the time. When ds19 was born, we bonded immediately. With younger ds, we bonded when he was a baby, but as he grew older, he was just different. He was hard to connect to. (I need to read about the attachment model. I have a window pulled up but have not read it yet, nor have I ever heard it mentioned before. The treatments and ideas surrounding RAD have so many different and opposing opinions, including treatment. Things have changed in that community since I started my search. Attachment model is a new one to me.) HE always seemed like he was in his own little world. We always tried to include him, but he was busy within himself. It wasn't autistic or aspergers, I have experience with that, too. What I later learned is that it was ADHD. He was in his own little world playing near us, soaking everything in while not participating, and being busy with his toys. It's hard to explain. He was always close to his brother, and dh and I did regularly spend time with him. When we were together as a family, he rarely participated verbally. I only in the past year learned that kids with behavioral problems often develop them because they have a hard time with expressive skills. I never knew this so I couldn't reach out to him when he was young. I always did things like ask him pointed questions, ask for his opinion, ask his VERY talkative brother to be quiet for awhile and let K share his thoughts/opinions, etc. I did all I could to get him to open up. It was like pulling nails. He has always been different from my other bio kids.

 

We were a very close family that spent a lot of time together. I guarded our time together as a family, and we did everything together: day trips, running the house, running the farm, etc. I know we spent more time together than most families I know, and yet he struggled to open up and connect. Even with his brother now, I feel like the true, deep feelings shared are mostly on my oldest's part. My younger son doesn't really share anything deep and meaningful, while my older son is a deep thinker and must talk things through. We would stay up way past midnight at times for him to talk through everything. I'd try to do special things with and for my younger son. One time we went to DC together for 5 days. We had a BLAST. I really wanted to try to get him to open up about some things, but he specifically said, once when I tried, "Can we just have fun? I don't want to talk about anythng serious." He is my kid that has had huge issues with anger since he was a toddler, never, ever took personal responsibility for anything he ever did that was mean, wrong, or inconsiderate, never apologized while meaning it, blamess everyone in the world for his problems, is entirely self absorbed.

 

I know it's genetics. I'm thankful I don't suffer from any mental illness. But our family does. My aunt, sister and brother are all mentally ill.

 

My son's perception of things is so off that it is clearly wrong. This is on many different things. But he will always know in his heart he is right.

 

 

Secondly, what is powerful about what you say, is about the kids from China. Yes, we bought into that LIE. We were specifically told that kids from China do very well, adjust well, don't typically have mental illness, etc. We were SOLD on China. But there are screwed up, RAD, Chinese kids all over the world. It was a L I E that we bought in to.

 

LIE.

[Perry]

First, :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to Denise and all the other parents dealing with this. Thank you for sharing your stories. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you.

 

I am still trying to digest the fact that those going into the mental health field aren't even educated about RAD. It makes sense that there are so few informed specialists in this area.

I knew about RAD in a vague sort of way, but didn't know there was an actual name for it. Because of what you've shared here, I've been talking about it with my dh, who is a family practice physician. He was completely unaware of RAD, although did know that some adoptive kids are extremely difficult to parent. I filled him in as best I could about what I've learned from your and others' posts.

 

He doesn't have any patients with RAD, but would like to know more in case he encounters it at some point. Do you have any suggestions? Unfortunately, aside from educating parents about attachment problems, it doesn't seem as if there's much he could do to help. I don't know if there are any resources in our community for RAD families.

[Joanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillian

You I've read this entire thread and I have expressed a lot to Denise via PM. As I told her the other day, I am in a Marriage and Family Therapy program, Masters degree. We had one mention in all of my classes (undergrad in Psychology--never) of RAD and that was a student project. Now my university is not a slack/wash/easy going university. My program was through Chapman University (University College which is their program that they offer to various places along the west coast and especially military bases for distance education but it's all Chapman approved/sanctioned) and we only had one mention of RAD. I bet that there are other programs around the country producing the same level of "education" about RAD.

 

The only reason we even discussed it was because we had a woman who worked with DSHS/CPS who knew about RAD and had seen it firsthand and she gave a student project on it. Can you believe that? We spend far more time learning about ADHD and Autism Spectrum Diagnosis in every. single. class. than something about RAD even when we had many students interested in working with the foster system/DSHS/CPS/adoption counseling/etc.

 

eta: there should be a know after the you in the beginning

 

 

I am in a psych masters program, literally just a thesis away from graduating, and reading through this I was thinking the same thing inly I am fairly certain the hive is the first place I heard of RAD. Although from reading this I realize my friends sister is dealing with a RADish. She adopted twins about 10 yrs ago and some of the things the one twin has been doing since reaching the tween age blew my mind. They have had to put her in a residential placement to protect the other people in the house. I dnt know if anyone has even mentioned RAD to them, I am going to have to ask my friend, but after reading this I guarantee tht is what it is.

My heart goes out to anyne in this situation.

 

We learned about it in my program. It was mentioned in several classes, but we learned the most in Psychopathology.

 

I learned the most in my practicum for a residential treatment program for at risk youth.

 

However, in neither setting did I learn a lot. I knew about it before my Masters, and I did my own reading and research.

 

RAD is a speciality in practice.

[Teachin'Mine]

Genetics, yes, but it's also how kids process and perceive the world. I have two kiddos that we adopted as infants (1 home from the hospital, 1 home at 6 weeks). Both were born to competent young women, both from healthy/functioning families, neither exposed to much in-utero, both moms well loved and well cared for by their families while they were pregnant. Our first daughter snuggled down deep in my arms, looked me in the eye and I was her mom from that point on. Our second daughter screams every time the vacuum cleaner is on, cries whenever someone sneezes or blows their nose, fights me on attachment every step of the way, is distraught when I leave her and fights/ignores me when I come home. For whatever reason my oldest has the ability to quickly adapt to the situation, accept it and move on and my youngest fights it every chance she gets. I know both of their bio moms well and I can't pinpoint any behavior in either of them that explains the differences with my kids' attachment.

 

 

OP - Hugs to you. Nobody talks RAD about their sweet China babies. I see a lot of talk in the adoption world about US foster kids and Eastern Europe kiddos having RAD. But, the perception out there for peeps like me (mostly informed, did my research, thought I knew the biggest risks) is that the kids from China are well cared for, treated well while in care and transition easily when they get home. China was our first choice, but we were starting out just as the waits in China were getting longer. We went domestic as our second choice. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

When the infants from China were first adopted internationally, most of them were 3 to 6 months old at the time of adoption. They transitioned beautifully. Then there were more in the system, more adoptive parents, and the waits became longer and the infants were typically 10 to 14 months old. At this time, some prospective parents were told that their babies might be unresponsive after having spent so much time in the orphanage, but that with a lot of holding and love, they would adjust well. To the best of my knowledge, the parents were not told about the possibility of RAD - just that these babies may not be crying and responsive at the beginning.

 

Then there was a whole "reorganization" within the adoption system within China and all the adoptions were put on hold. During this time, the children waiting to be adopted got older. When the adoptions resumed, I think it was more common to have adoptions at 16 to 18+ months of age. This was after the time when we adopted, and I'm guessing that these babies suffered more from the typical orphanage care there. I wish that they would change how the babies are cared for during their stay in the orphanage.

[Denisemomof4]

When the infants from China were first adopted internationally' date=' most of them were 3 to 6 months old at the time of adoption. They transitioned beautifully. Then there were more in the system, more adoptive parents, and the waits became longer and the infants were typically 10 to 14 months old. At this time, some prospective parents were told that their babies might be unresponsive after having spent so much time in the orphanage, but that with a lot of holding and love, they would adjust well. To the best of my knowledge, the parents were not told about the possibility of RAD - just that these babies may not be crying and responsive at the beginning.

 

Then there was a whole "reorganization" within the adoption system within China and all the adoptions were put on hold. During this time, the children waiting to be adopted got older. When the adoptions resumed, I think it was more common to have adoptions at 16 to 18+ months of age. This was after the time when we adopted, and I'm guessing that these babies suffered more from the typical orphanage care there. I wish that they would change how the babies are cared for during their stay in the orphanage.[/quote']

 

How long ago did you adopt? I adopted 8 years ago. The wait time was not that long. If I remember right, the youngest baby was 9 months of age, with most babies being over a year old. My baby was 14 months.

 

Who gave you the information you type about above with adjustment issues, not crying at first, etc? We got NOTHING.

 

When I used to rock my baby to sleep, she used to sound like she had a light snore. Her eyes would be shut. She looked sound asleep, all the while tears would silently roll down her little cheeks. I *NOW* know that this was because she was so uncomfortable being touched, rocked, and sang to. I'd place her in her crib, she would look sound asleep. I would walk out the door, and no sooner would I be halfway down the hall when I could hear her making noise, jumping, in her crib. When she'd hear me come back into her room, she'd look sound asleep. I know ths was a learned behavior, and I suspect she got scolded, or worse.

 

She did not cry for years. Many/most times she cries now it is a way to manipulate me and is not genuine. She has shown anger around me ONE TIME IN ALMOST EIGHT YEARS.

 

I got some helpful information: wear a colorful necklace for her to play with. Bring suckers and snacks. Don't worry about healthy snacks, just bring food. Bring a toy or two. What to look for? Nothing.

 

Our agency is a HUGE agency. I'd bet it is one of the largest, if not the largest, in New England.

 

My daughter was home for YEARS before they started to offer workshops on attachment issues. I wonder if they give that information to people BEFORE they adopt.

[Denisemomof4]

I did, however, speak to adoptive families I knew who adopted from other countries.

 

I knew of one girl who never bonded with her family, but the woman I spoke to told me that the mother was never affectionate. I knew the mother, and I can attest to that.

 

I was like countless others who felt love would truly be enough. I should have been informed differently.

 

The blame is to be placed solely on the adoption agency.

[Mommyfaithe]

RAD was discussed in many books on adoption for the last decade and longer.

 

 

Listen, Im not trying to rub salt in anyone's wounds here. but the truth is the info is and was available.

 

Its also true that the adoption industry actively hoaxes parents (and the adoption community might gloss over the unpleasantness and especially over disastrous adoptions, probably from much less selfish motives than the industry.)

 

Sounds like salt rubbing to me....sheeesh.

 

Seems to me the adoption agencies do whatever the he'll the adoption agencies want to do....and parents, who are desperate for a baby are NOT going to be looking for horror stories. I have seen RAD in action, I have seen the adoption agency in action...first hand....as an adoptee and as a foster child and as a foster sibling...over...and over....and over. They make the rules. They offer the info they want to offer. They act like an advocate of the child and parent.....but they are out for the bottom line....themselves. It is a selfish nasty business.

 

Denise...please plug your ears to this nonsense. Miss smarty pants tend to think she knows more about everything than everyone else. She has yet to walk a mile in your....or my....shoes.

 

Faithe

[Elinor Everywhere]

Sounds like salt rubbing to me....sheeesh.

 

Seems to me the adoption agencies do whatever the he'll the adoption agencies want to do....and parents, who are desperate for a baby are NOT going to be looking for horror stories. I have seen RAD in action, I have seen the adoption agency in action...first hand....as an adoptee and as a foster child and as a foster sibling...over...and over....and over. They make the rules. They offer the info they want to offer. They act like an advocate of the child and parent.....but they are out for the bottom line....themselves. It is a selfish nasty business.

 

Denise...please plug your ears to this nonsense. Miss smarty pants tend to think she knows more about everything than everyone else. She has yet to walk a mile in your....or my....shoes.

 

Faithe

 

Here, here!!