Vaccine gurus

[Tammy (TX)]

One thing I would suggest is reading the CDC Pink Book. It has all the information on all the vaccines and their associated diseases. Very good reading for helping make these types of decisions. All the chapters are available online for free.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/index.html

 

:iagree: I second the recommendation for the Pink Book. It has all the information about each disease/vaccine as well as recommended schedules for kids who have not had the vaccinations yet. It's the first place I go when I'm researching these things for my kiddos.

[LMA]

There is a fairly active vaccine board on mothering.com that may be able to provide more experience in this topic, there is a board dedicated solely to delayed/selective vaccinating. Make sure you share any long term illnesses (such as the epilepsy). I agree with the previous poster, you do not want to dose eith Tylenol before the shots, I think I have read something about high doses of vitamin c before shots, but thats something you'll have to look into as I cannot recall specifics or if it's even advisable.

 

FWIW, I am not surprised at the peds lack of guidance in this, many doctors are are all or nothing. They are trained to follow the schedule, and I don't know if they are even trained in how to advise delayed and selective vaccination, other than delaying due to a currently ill child, or advising against certain vaccines due to a known allergy (eg. Eggs). Although they should be able to guide on this, IMO, the pat answer is usually to recommend following the schedule. I think a great doctor should advise you something like this: "well I would suggest vaccine A first since your children are at the highest risk of contracting it/ or there's been a recent outbreak of it. You could skip/delay vaccine B since your children have already had it or it is no longer as much of a threat past infancy. I would advise against vaccine C for child x due to his health problem and the risk of listed side effects for that particular vaccine. Then I would suggest following with vaccine d for such and such a reason.". Although I must say, I think physicians like this are very hard to come by. I would read "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You Avout Childhood Vaccinations" by Stephanie Cave, if you haven't already.

 

I think it is important for parents to think for themselves, I have found myself in many situations with a medical professional where I knew his advice was not a good idea or where he was unsure of the diagnosis or treatment and I suggested something, he verified it was likely right and I got the treatment I wanted and it worked.

 

Actually, I asked my pediatrician what he recommends as far as picking vaccines and he said that he could not advise which ones to pick as it could become a liability issue. For example, he tells you to skip Vac A and the child develops Disease A. The parent could tell the ped that "you told me to skip it." That is why doctors say to you to pick. Doctors can only go so far to advise you about this thing, even with the flu shot. They can only offer it. You have the right to decline but you can't decline it through his recommendation.

[Whereneverever]

Here is a perfect example of why parents need to make informed choices and educate themselves about the care of their children. We have two medical professionals (both nurses) with two different ideas on how children pre- and post- vaccine should be taken care of.

 

Which advice does a parent follow? Tried and true or new thinking?

 

:iagree:

[Whereneverever]

I do not vax...but I might consider rubella for my girls. The idea scares me wrt pregnancy. Any way to test titres? Can you just get rubella vax? Is rubella common where you live?

 

So many question with regards to vaxxes!

 

I think you have to do the MMR?:confused:

[Annie Laurie]

The Sears vaccine book is to be avoided IMO. Among other problems, it relies on unverified VAERS data in making primary assumptions. It really isn't much help in making informed decisions, and contains much wishy-washy language in a seeming attempt to please everyone, while it presents misleading information and is actually quite anti-vaccination (hence its popularity in certain circles).

 

 

 

I disagree. I had the opposite impression after reading it- that he's pro vaccination. I did not find it wishy-washy at all. I thought it was very clear and concise.

[happypamama]

I've not read all of the replies, but for one of our children, we got Hib, Prevnar (Pneumococcal conjugate), and DTaP. Our ped was really fantastic; she was comfortable with us skipping all of them if we had wanted to, but when I asked her which ones she felt were most important for *our family,* she thought DTaP was a good idea. I think a ped should be able to discuss which ones are most appropriate for your children.

 

If it matters to you, certain vaccines are cultured in human fetal tissue. That particularly bothers me, so I chose not to give those ones.

[HiddenJewel]

:iagree: I second the recommendation for the Pink Book. It has all the information about each disease/vaccine as well as recommended schedules for kids who have not had the vaccinations yet. It's the first place I go when I'm researching these things for my kiddos.

 

 

The Pink Book also gives the ages when a vaccine is recommended and at what age it is no longer effective, if applicable.

[Tiramisu]

I do not vax...but I might consider rubella for my girls. The idea scares me wrt pregnancy. Any way to test titres? Can you just get rubella vax? Is rubella common where you live?

 

So many question with regards to vaxxes!

 

In Japan, they do the rubella vaccine alone. The only give it to girls who have reached puberty. Boys don't get the rubella vaccine. They only get the mumps vaccine, which girls don't get. The policy is risk specific.

 

Yes, you can get titres checked.

 

I don't think rubella is very available as a single vaccine in the US.

[athomemom]

I haven't read all the replies, but may I make the suggestion to do one vaccine at a time? That way if there is a reaction you will know exactly which vaccine caused the issue. If I had to do it over again, I would delay my boys vaccines and I would only have them given one at a time.

 

I had an extremely high fever (104) and could not move my arm with the DTP shot. My mom told our doctors, but they wouldn't listen and gave it to me anyway.:glare: I can do the adult vaccine, but not the kids...

 

Best wishes!

[SonshineLearner]

Personally, I'd skip the pertussis, and pull apart any vaccines I wanted to give. Your Drs. office may have to special order them, but I would only give single vaccines. Also, check the ingredients to make sure what you are going to be giving them. For ethical reasons, I wouldn't get chicken pox vaccines.

So, what vaccines are most important is something that is debated, but you can find a decent amount of good advice that suggests pulling the vaccines apart before giving them.

Good Luck!!

[Tiramisu]

The CDC does have a "getting caught up" vaccine schedule - depending on the age of the child, certain things aren't needed, or are needed on a different schedule. That's a good starting point.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/child-schedule.htm - the catch up schedule

 

I would proceed carefully with any catch up schedule. We did it because my two oldest were born and spent their early years abroad, and I didn't know any better. One of them had a very hard time after getting so many shots and couldn't walk for a couple of days. Looking back, it was so unnecessary. We could have easily picked out the most important ones and started with them. That first acquaintance with the U.S. vaccine schedule was rather overwhelming for all of us.

[NicAnn]

I do not vax...but I might consider rubella for my girls. The idea scares me wrt pregnancy. Any way to test titres? Can you just get rubella vax? Is rubella common where you live?

 

So many question with regards to vaxxes!

 

 

ETA: oops, I didn't even read the part you wrote about titres.

 

What we plan on doing, is getting Dds titers checked (blood test) when she hits about 14/15. We will see what she's already been exposed to and then vaccinate for what she hasn't. This is really only in regards to Rubella and chicken pox. It's possible to be immune to both and not know it. For me, I am Rubella immune, but never had the vax, so somewhere along my life I was exposed to it but never developed any symptoms. We think this is how it is for Dd and pox. She's been exposed several times, but has yet to have a single symptom!

[Tiramisu]

I haven't read all the replies, but may I make the suggestion to do one vaccine at a time? That way if there is a reaction you will know exactly which vaccine caused the issue. If I had to do it over again, I would delay my boys vaccines and I would only have them given one at a time.

 

I had an extremely high fever (104) and could not move my arm with the DTP shot. My mom told our doctors, but they wouldn't listen and gave it to me anyway.:glare: I can do the adult vaccine, but not the kids...

 

Best wishes!

 

I like the one at a time idea, too, perhaps because that's what I was used to when my oldest were young. I think they still do this in Japan. One shot at a time, a month between live vaccines, one week between dead ones. None if the child has recently had a fever.

[elfgivas]

one of the things i do is to see what the canadians recommend, and then the brits and the aussies and the europeans, and take where all those overlap to be a consensus of sorts that have had all sorts of folks look at them, with more stringent safety requirements in several of those.

 

when looking at data, for me it makes some sense to look at how often different reactions may happen. almost everything can cause something, but if it only happens one out of every 10 million or so, that's different than 1 out of a 100 or so, kwim?

 

good for you for embarking on this! my vaccine search 12 years ago led me to learn more about internet misinformation than any other single search i've done..... which then led to the "so what do the canadians say?" approach.... which has helped a lot.

 

:grouphug:

ann

[Iucounu]

I disagree. I had the opposite impression after reading it- that he's pro vaccination. I did not find it wishy-washy at all. I thought it was very clear and concise.

 

This is interesting-- he may be changing his stance:

http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/03/is-dr-bob-sears-moving-away-from-his-profitable-anti-vaccine-pandering/

 

I think a great many people would disagree that he's pro-vaccination, including probably many of those who have decided not to vaccinate based on his book. He's made a lot of money promoting his viewpoints that have resulted in avoidance of vaccinations.

[HiddenJewel]

one of the things i do is to see what the canadians recommend, and then the brits and the aussies and the europeans, and take where all those overlap to be a consensus of sorts that have had all sorts of folks look at them, with more stringent safety requirements in several of those.

 

Don't forget Japan.

[NicAnn]

This is interesting-- he may be changing his stance:

http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/03/is-dr-bob-sears-moving-away-from-his-profitable-anti-vaccine-pandering/

 

I think a great many people would disagree that he's pro-vaccination, including probably many of those who have decided not to vaccinate based on his book. He's made a lot of money promoting his viewpoints that have resulted in avoidance of vaccinations.

 

And I think a great many people would disagree that he is anti-vaccine. At least, in the non vaccinating circle I run in, he is generally regarded as pro-vaccine.

I don't view him as "pro" vaccine, but I definitively feel he learns that way. No one should be making a decision not to or to vax based on one book. His book was one of the many resources we used to come to our decision.

[DianeW88]

I respectfully disagree with this. The latest thinking is not to medicate with tylenol or motrin until after, or if, they start to run a fever post injection. The purpose of the vaccination is to kick-start their immune system into producing antibodies to whatever illness you're trying to prevent. There is research that suggests that if you prevent a fever from ever happening it decreases the efficacy of the vaccine. It is, however, fine to medicate if your childs temp goes over 101. Anything less, you should just ride out with plenty of fluids.

 

FWIW, I'm a registered nurse.

 

Yep, so am I. LOL And thanks for pointing that out...I wasn't very clear in my response. I don't personally give pain relievers, and I don't think post injection fevers are harmful (or swelling, or redness, etc.). I completely agree that fevers are doing what the immune system is supposed to do...react to the vaccine and start building immunity. In fact, that's what we tell patients. You WANT a reaction.

 

However, some parents have a hard time with this, and in those cases, we usually suggest a dose of Motrin if the child is irritable or not sleeping from the fever. I don't do it for my own kids though.

[SonshineLearner]

There is also cream you can put on, either in cream form... or by patch. It's the one that chemo patients can rub on their spot prior to getting chemo.

[Iucounu]

And I think a great many people would disagree that he is anti-vaccine. At least, in the non vaccinating circle I run in, he is generally regarded as pro-vaccine.

I guess there's no accounting for opinions on the internet, just like there's no accounting for taste. In any event it may be most accurate to describe Dr. Sears as pandering to the anti-vax, selective/delayed vax, and clueless pro-vax crowd more than anything. In my view, though, anyone who knowingly increases the likelihood that people will delay or avoid vaccinations is not pro-vaccination at all.

 

No one should be making a decision not to or to vax based on one book. His book was one of the many resources we used to come to our decision.

The problem is that there aren't really any reliable resources of which I know that advocate against vaccination. Every last anti-vaccination website I've ever seen has been full of quackery and pseudoscience. That means that whether one has complete faith in them or not, the CDC, AMA etc. are the go-to resources for reliable information on the subject of vaccines, with the complete vacuum of reliable anti-vax info. Either one accepts that the pro-vaccination establishment presents a balanced view, or one must accept the impossibility of forming an unbiased view.

 

That is,

 

(shoddy science + gov't. conspiracy) + (pseudoscience + quackery) ≠ good science

[iamrachelle]

Here is a perfect example of why parents need to make informed choices and educate themselves about the care of their children. We have two medical professionals (both nurses) with two different ideas on how children pre- and post- vaccine should be taken care of.

 

Which advice does a parent follow? Tried and true or new thinking?

 

 

This is a really good question. The research was prompted because of the high failure rate of several vaccines, when in the past the effects (immunity) lasted longer.

[J-rap]

I would suggest rubella for your girls, although as some mentioned, that might not be offered individually here in the U.S. Pregnancy + rubella is not a good mix.

[ktgrok]

I guess there's no accounting for opinions on the internet, just like there's no accounting for taste. In any event it may be most accurate to describe Dr. Sears as pandering to the anti-vax, selective/delayed vax, and clueless pro-vax crowd more than anything. In my view, though, anyone who knowingly increases the likelihood that people will delay or avoid vaccinations is not pro-vaccination at all.

I don't know if you have read his book at all, but it gives the possible side effects of each vaccine, and a larger amount of information on the risks of the actual disease. I read the book expecting to delay more than I did, his book convinced me to do more/earlier. also, his schedule has children finishing up their vaccines at the same time the CDC schedule does, just doing less of them more often. How is that anti vaccine???

 

The problem is that there aren't really any reliable resources of which I know that advocate against vaccination. Every last anti-vaccination website I've ever seen has been full of quackery and pseudoscience. That means that whether one has complete faith in them or not, the CDC, AMA etc. are the go-to resources for reliable information on the subject of vaccines, with the complete vacuum of reliable anti-vax info. Either one accepts that the pro-vaccination establishment presents a balanced view, or one must accept the impossibility of forming an unbiased view.

 

I read the Sears book, but most of my research was basedon the CDC's website and information. Is that considered quackery? I read the info, and did the math. For instance, there hasn't been a single case of polio in the western hemisphere in decades, basically my entire lifespan. The mathematical odds of contracting polio are SO much lower than the odds of having a severe reaction to the vaccine that it only made sense not to give it. That is math, not pseudo-science. I did the same comparison for other diseases, looking at reported cases of disease versus reported serious reactions, and then also talked to our ped to see if there were local variations that would change those odds. I didn't spend any time on any weird websites.

 

That is,

 

(shoddy science + gov't. conspiracy) + (pseudoscience + quackery) ≠ good science

 

Oh, and I have a science background and degree, and lots of continuing education in the science of immunizations. I don't think vaccines are the devil. I think they are a medication that should be given with careful consideration when the benefits outweigh the risks, just like any other medication. I ended up following a modified schedule advised by a local pediatrician. That is right an actual medical doctor, who advocates a modified schedule based on risk factors. That isn't pseduoscience. If anything, vaccinating every child for the same things regardless of medical history or personal risk factors is psedoscience, or at least bad medicine.

[tomandlorih]

If anything, vaccinating every child for the same things regardless of medical history or personal risk factors is psedoscience, or at least bad medicine.

 

:iagree:We also delay/selectively vax based on statistics and probability combined with family medical history etc..

[TranquilMind]

*Lots* of people are fully vaccinated and I've never met one that had three heads.

"Fully vaccinated" means many things. I'm fully vaccinated for my age. I had 3 or 4 vaccines in childhood, all after school age began, and one at 11. My Mom was fully vaccinated for her pre-war time, having had one or two.

 

Today, to be "fully vaccinated" means having 49 - FORTY NINE - doses of 14 vaccines by the age of SIX and 69 doses of 16 vaccines by the age of 18, according to the CDC schedule.

[TranquilMind]

ETA: oops, I didn't even read the part you wrote about titres.

 

What we plan on doing, is getting Dds titers checked (blood test) when she hits about 14/15. We will see what she's already been exposed to and then vaccinate for what she hasn't. This is really only in regards to Rubella and chicken pox. It's possible to be immune to both and not know it. For me, I am Rubella immune, but never had the vax, so somewhere along my life I was exposed to it but never developed any symptoms. We think this is how it is for Dd and pox. She's been exposed several times, but has yet to have a single symptom!

Getting titers checked for an older child is a very good idea.

 

Mine was checked when my children got Chicken Pox. I was 42 and had never had chicken pox. My doctor did a titer and I was immune anyway, and so was my Mom, who also never had chicken pox (any discernable case, that is).

[TranquilMind]

Don't forget Japan.

Yes. Japan no longer vaccinates children under 2, last I read, at least not with some vaccines.

[TranquilMind]

The Sears vaccine book is to be avoided IMO. Among other problems, it relies on unverified VAERS data in making primary assumptions. It really isn't much help in making informed decisions, and contains much wishy-washy language in a seeming attempt to please everyone, while it presents misleading information and is actually quite anti-vaccination (hence its popularity in certain circles).

 

The first, best source of vaccination information is always the bona fide medical establishment, so I'd shun anti-vaccination websites and start with Wikipedia, the CDC website, etc. Anti-vax websites are riddled with inaccuracy and wild claims by peddlers of homeopathic remedies and other shysters.

Equally to be avoided are rabidly pro-vaccine sites who pay homage to Dr.Paul Offit (Mr. I-never-met-a-vaccine-I-didn't-like" and "Babies can tolerate 10,000 doses of vaccines at once"), a vaccine company peddler and front man extraordinaire.

 

Read all the sites you can, and then distill the balanced information, as well as utilize some common sense.

Edited January 9, 2012 by TranquilMind

[kiana]

With *specific* respect to polio --

 

Although it is true that cases in the US have been extremely rare (which is why the IPV is currently recommended, as the more effective OPV has a small chance of the child catching polio from the vaccine), I would be reluctant to trust that it'll remain so -- witness the resurgence in Africa after cessation of vaccination. Although it's extremely likely that you're safe, I'd still *personally* recommend catching up teenagers, unless delay is caused by prior reactions or philosophical objections.

[Random]

 

The problem is that there aren't really any reliable resources of which I know that advocate against vaccination. Every last anti-vaccination website I've ever seen has been full of quackery and pseudoscience. That means that whether one has complete faith in them or not, the CDC, AMA etc. are the go-to resources for reliable information on the subject of vaccines, with the complete vacuum of reliable anti-vax info. Either one accepts that the pro-vaccination establishment presents a balanced view, or one must accept the impossibility of forming an unbiased view.

 

That is,

 

(shoddy science + gov't. conspiracy) + (pseudoscience + quackery) ≠ good science

 

Jumping in here to say I made my informed, educated decision to selectively vaccinate based on the CDC's statistics and research.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Random
make my words sound more friendly

[TranquilMind]

I disagree. I had the opposite impression after reading it- that he's pro vaccination. I did not find it wishy-washy at all. I thought it was very clear and concise.

Sears IS pro-vaccine, though he does have the ability to recognize the validity of other points of view, something many lack.

[Dolphin]

Wow! You have been given a lot of advice.

 

We are all vaccinated, I am pro vaccine. We did do a delayed schedule with the kids though, and I am happy with how that worked out. I am not going to list all the reason I am pro vaccine though, as you don't want a debate. We all get our choices (I didn't give my kids supplemental fluoride and have had many people tell me how horrible I am for that):D

 

I would not do Tetanus first. It is an important vaccination, however it is probably about the worst introduction to a shot you can have. It hurts, and the site can be sore for a few days afterwards. I would get it, it is not that bad, but I wouldn't start off with the most painful.

 

So, here is my opposite advice. I would ask the doctor what shot has the smallest needle and the least reaction. Do that first. That way you will all be more relaxed going into your later shots.

 

Just do the one shot the first time.

 

Make your kids comfortable. My 9 year old started laying on the table with me by his head at age 7. Before that he did what youngest dd still does. I sit on the chair, and they sit on my lap with one leg either side, so that we are chest to chest. They face away from the needle and I give them a lollipop right before the shot. DD took out her lolli, looked at the nurse and said "that hurt" and then popped her lolli back in and snuggled last time.

 

It sounds horrible, and I know not everyone can afford this, but I also pay for shots:lol:. I don't bribe with food (for my own reasons) The flu shot in our family is a $10 shot. The tetanus is a $40. If you go that route, talk to the nurse. I think I did $15 for Hib and $25 for MMR. We then go to the toy shop and get to buy toys.

 

This has worked well for us. My 9 year old starts pestering me for his flu shot every August as there is usually a new toy he wants.

 

Also, ask what shots can be done in the behind or thigh. Tetanus is one. They like doing the arm for some reason, but the behind hurts less. I am needle phobic, so I have to admit I get whatever I can in my derriere rather than my arm, the kids do to.

 

I have never had a bad reaction, and I do not know anyone who has. I know there are people out there who have, I just have not met any.We all still only have one head, 10 fingers and 12 toes...:001_huh:

 

Oh, and you should be able to get the doc to order Measles, Mumps, and Rubella separately. Just push for it. I had a separate Rubella vaccination as even with all my MMR's I am still not testing as being immune to Rubella.

 

Best of luck wading through all the information. It is important to make an informed choice, but don't get bogged down in the info. If this is what you are going to do, just take a deep breath and do it, you will make the right choice for your family.:grouphug:

[KittyM]

Has anybody read The Truth About Vaccines by Dr Richard Halvorsen?

And if so, what did you think of it?

I read it 6 years ago when making decisions re vaccinating ds (now 6). Despite the slightly inflammatory title I thought it was quite informative and objective. He basically goes through each disease/vaccine, the history, risks, and benefits. He recommends some vaccines for some individuals, for example, rubella vaccine for girls reaching childbearing age if they have been tested and are not already immune.

I have always planned to 'play it by ear' with vaccinations and so every so often I do some research and try to re-evaluate. However, there is so much info out there and it's such a controversial issue that it can be overwhelming!

Ds6 had his first 5 in 1 vaccine at 13 months (dh wanted to vaccinate back then, I didn't so we compromised and did nothing until he turned 1). Within a few days he began 48 hours or more of the most toxic diarrhoea I have come across (and I am also a registered nurse!). Dh happily agreed to hold off on any more vaccinations and we decided we'd reconsider when ds would be starting school. But hey, that never happened!

[ktgrok]

With *specific* respect to polio --

 

Although it is true that cases in the US have been extremely rare (which is why the IPV is currently recommended, as the more effective OPV has a small chance of the child catching polio from the vaccine), I would be reluctant to trust that it'll remain so -- witness the resurgence in Africa after cessation of vaccination. Although it's extremely likely that you're safe, I'd still *personally* recommend catching up teenagers, unless delay is caused by prior reactions or philosophical objections.

 

Just wanted to clarify that it isn't just that cases are rare. It is that there have not been ANY wild, paralytic polio cases in the US in over 40 years. NONE. And there haven't been any in the entire HEMISPHERE in over 30 years. The odds of my child being the first case in the entire hemisphere in over 3 decades is just SO SO minute to almost be zero, versus the real chances of a reaction. Now, that said, if there started to be cases in the US, or the hemisphere, I would rethink that decision. But now, to vaccinate for a disease that has been eradicated on the continent for my entire lifetime seems overkill.

[justasque]

If it matters to you, certain vaccines are cultured in human fetal tissue. That particularly bothers me, so I chose not to give those ones.

 

This site gives a good, thoughtful, easy-to-understand but nonetheless scientific explanation/clarification of this issue. To summarize, "Some vaccine components have been derived from [three] human fetuses. The abortions were not conducted for the purpose of vaccine discovery or vaccine production. Additional abortions are not needed for the production of these vaccines. In the case of rubella vaccine, abortions are prevented by the use of the vaccine." (Note when reading the article that "spontaneous abortion" is the medical term for a miscarriage, and "induced abortion" is the medical term for what we would normally/colloquially call an abortion.) There are a number of references at the bottom of the article, which in turn link to other thoughtful, scientific discussions of the dilemma. It's very much worth a read if you are concerned about this issue.

[Whereneverever]

Wow, lots to read and look at. Thanks everyone- especially for keeping it so civil. :001_smile:

[jplain]

TdaP for those over age 7 will require two doses if never vaxed.

A small correction: Tdap (Boostrix or Adacel) is currently only licensed for one lifetime dose.

 

For a previously unvaccinated individual age 7 and over, the series consists of one Tdap and three doses Td, spaced appropriately. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there's no data available on whether one dose of Tdap is effective for acquiring immunity to pertussis.

 

For our 8yo, we're starting the series with Td and will consider giving Tdap after age 10 or 11, depending on which version our ped is stocking when the time comes. Neither Boostrix or Adacel was tested or approved by the FDA for children under 10. The CDC's committee is recommending off-label use, but we're not comfortable with off-label use in this case. If we had an unvaccinated infant in our household, and a large number of confirmed pertussis cases in our area, we might feel differently.

 

.

Edited January 9, 2012 by jplain

[kiana]

Just wanted to clarify that it isn't just that cases are rare. It is that there have not been ANY wild, paralytic polio cases in the US in over 40 years. NONE. And there haven't been any in the entire HEMISPHERE in over 30 years. The odds of my child being the first case in the entire hemisphere in over 3 decades is just SO SO minute to almost be zero, versus the real chances of a reaction. Now, that said, if there started to be cases in the US, or the hemisphere, I would rethink that decision. But now, to vaccinate for a disease that has been eradicated on the continent for my entire lifetime seems overkill.

 

Very slightly off, but yes. There've been 8 cases since the last outbreak in 1979 -- the last of those was in 1993. All of them were acquired outside of the USA and imported.

 

Also, there was a scare in 2005 -- quoting the CDC's website "In 2005, a VDPV was found in the stool of an unvaccinated, immunocompromised child in the state of Minnesota. The child most likely caught the virus through contact in the community with someone who received live oral vaccine in another country 2 months prior. Subsequently, seven other unvaccinated children in the the child’s community were shown to have poliovirus infection. None of the infected children had paralysis."

 

So essentially, they lucked out. However -- I would still recommend (and it's your choice, I'm not saying ANYTHING about people who make another choice) getting it in the teenage years. There are enough people who go to the areas of Africa where it's recently been making a comeback and where the OPV is still used that I would rather not take the chance.

[choirfarm]

Ok, I just read the CDC thing about the Dtap. It can cause seizures? Yikes. My four year old has epilepsy already. :(.

 

This whole thing is overwhelming.

 

Then he shouldn't have the pertussis vaccine. My boys had seizures as well and we didn't give them their first ones. They did have them when they were older before we went on a mission trip and they didn't have a problem.

 

I had a bad reaction to the pertussis vaccine when I was 5. I had a very high fever and I still have a scar on my butt from it. My daughter had her 5 year old shots for our trip to Honduras. 3 or 4 days later one of the spots took up half of her thigh. When I went back to the doctor and showed them, the nurse thought she had an allergic reaction to a bee sting. Nope, it was the pertussis shot!! So they have a note on her chart now.

 

I am a doctor's wife and we are pro vaccine. That said , there are contraindications (like seizures) for certain vaccines. Your doctor didn't say anything about that??? It was our family doctor that advised us against the pertusis at first.

[*********]

Jumping in here to say I made my informed, educated decision to selectively vaccinate based on the CDC's statistics and research.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Me too. 'Cept I used the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics website, too.

[jplain]

So essentially, they lucked out. However -- I would still recommend (and it's your choice, I'm not saying ANYTHING about people who make another choice) getting [the polio vaccine] in the teenage years. There are enough people who go to the areas of Africa where it's recently been making a comeback and where the OPV is still used that I would rather not take the chance.

I agree with those who think the polio vaccine could be moved off the regular schedule and moved to the "as needed for international travel" category, because the chances of contracting it in the US are vanishingly small.

 

On the other hand, it is arguably the vaccine least likely to cause reactions or side effects. We'll probably have our kids receive IPV as teens, or even earlier if it would be prudent for travel.

[Whereneverever]

Then he shouldn't have the pertussis vaccine. My boys had seizures as well and we didn't give them their first ones. They did have them when they were older before we went on a mission trip and they didn't have a problem.

 

I had a bad reaction to the pertussis vaccine when I was 5. I had a very high fever and I still have a scar on my butt from it. My daughter had her 5 year old shots for our trip to Honduras. 3 or 4 days later one of the spots took up half of her thigh. When I went back to the doctor and showed them, the nurse thought she had an allergic reaction to a bee sting. Nope, it was the pertussis shot!! So they have a note on her chart now.

 

I am a doctor's wife and we are pro vaccine. That said , there are contraindications (like seizures) for certain vaccines. Your doctor didn't say anything about that??? It was our family doctor that advised us against the pertusis at first.

No, no one mentioned that little tid bit.:glare:

[ktgrok]

Very slightly off, but yes. There've been 8 cases since the last outbreak in 1979 -- the last of those was in 1993. All of them were acquired outside of the USA and imported.

 

Also, there was a scare in 2005 -- quoting the CDC's website "In 2005, a VDPV was found in the stool of an unvaccinated, immunocompromised child in the state of Minnesota. The child most likely caught the virus through contact in the community with someone who received live oral vaccine in another country 2 months prior. Subsequently, seven other unvaccinated children in the the child’s community were shown to have poliovirus infection. None of the infected children had paralysis."

 

So essentially, they lucked out. However -- I would still recommend (and it's your choice, I'm not saying ANYTHING about people who make another choice) getting it in the teenage years. There are enough people who go to the areas of Africa where it's recently been making a comeback and where the OPV is still used that I would rather not take the chance.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but what I say stands...there have been no cases of WILD PARALYTIC polio contracted in the western hemisphere in over 3 decades. Yes, some people have contracted the vaccine strain, but that is not wild polio and they have not been paralytic.

[kiana]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but what I say stands...there have been no cases of WILD PARALYTIC polio contracted in the western hemisphere in over 3 decades. Yes, some people have contracted the vaccine strain, but that is not wild polio and they have not been paralytic.

 

Erm, no.

 

The last wild-type case was in 1991, in Peru. That's just over 2 decades, not 3.

 

Secondly, there was an outbreak in the Dominican Republic and Haiti in 2000-2001. Yes, it was vaccine-derived. However, the disease had apparently been in the wild for a bit (vaccine coverage was quite low there, under 60%) and mutated significantly towards the wild-type, including regaining the paralytic properties.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5039a3.htm

[smalltown mom]

If anything, vaccinating every child for the same things regardless of medical history or personal risk factors is psedoscience, or at least bad medicine.

 

:iagree:

Edited January 9, 2012 by smalltown mom

[6packofun]

Our dr. said the same thing to us, leaving the research aspect up to me. Our kids run the range of having had a few vaccines while younger to having none at all. My 5yo just had his first vaccines today!

 

Anyhow, as a general rule that just makes me feel more comfortable, we give no more than 2 shots per visit, no more than 1 live virus vaccine per visit, and no more than 1 multi-disease vaccine per visit.

 

Today he got dTap and Hep A (I think? Dh took him...). Dr. suggested the dTap and the MMR, but that goes against what I want so next visit is going to be the MMR and another single disease vaccine.

 

I think the Dr. Sears book was very level-headed and a good start for your research. The CDC site also gives information about when to give and not give vaccines (contraindications and also age limits--for example, my 16yo dd got the meningitis vaccine and only needs ONE dose because she got it after age 16...if she'd had it earlier, she would have, supposedly needed TWO doses). Make your OWN schedule and print it out to bring to your doc with any health issues that concern you so that she/he SEES it all.

 

There may be some adjusting that needs to be done with boosters if your kids are older and you can also do titers (blood tests to determine immunity which may help you with your decisions).

 

Good luck!

[mirth]

No, no one mentioned that little tid bit.:glare:

 

I gently suggest that you find a new doc. This doc must do more than serve as a vax dispenser. You would find more guidance at even one of those travel vax clinics.

[ktgrok]

Erm, no.

 

The last wild-type case was in 1991, in Peru. That's just over 2 decades, not 3.

 

Secondly, there was an outbreak in the Dominican Republic and Haiti in 2000-2001. Yes, it was vaccine-derived. However, the disease had apparently been in the wild for a bit (vaccine coverage was quite low there, under 60%) and mutated significantly towards the wild-type, including regaining the paralytic properties.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5039a3.htm

You are right, I mixed up my USA versus continent versus hemisphere data. Sorry, it's been about a year since I researched it.

[Dmichellekp]

I am neither anti or pro vaccine. I dont know if my 2 cents will help you. I was fully vaccinated as a child. My kids until now have also been vaccinated. A few years ago I had to have proof of immuniations for my clinical rotation. I had my titers and didn't think it was a big deal, since I knew i had all my shots. It was then that I found out I was no longer covered by MMR. It was required for me to be in the hospital clinicals so I got it again. My insurance (and I heard most are the same) would not cover adult immunizations and I had to pay out of pocket. It was expensive. I also was found to not be covered by the Hep B vaccine either. That one I had been vaccinated for only 10 years prior (had to get it when I became an EMT). I was told that they are finding vaccines, Hep B in particular, are not life long immunity and that most insurances will not cover adult vaccines. Just food for thought while you are making your decisions.

I think knowing what I know now, and with my more informed view on somethings, I personally would have done things a bit different for my kids. For one, they would not have gotten Hep B at birth, and I know I would have spread out and chosen which and when. There isn't much I can do about it now, but I have respect for all those moms out there who do the research and doesn't blindly follow what the doctors tell you to do. They only do what the drug manufacturers tell them to do. They are doctors, not researchers.