Pros and Cons of homeschooling high school

[TheApprentice]

Please help me make this list. Ds and I are going to have a discussion about his future choices.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I think you would also have to list the pros and cons of private and public schools as well. As a substitute teacher I can tell you that the grass is NOT greener on the other side.... it is just a different meadow in which to graze.

 

You'll make a better decision if you can define your main purpose for high school and then determine which educational setting best meets that goal.

 

Our main purpose for high school always has been to solidify life long independent learning skills.... best met home schooling.

 

Another family with great football players and possible football scholarships might want to go to public school.

 

So, I think a list of pros and cons might be based on an individual family's goals.

:)

[Susan C.]

I just had both in one sitting, con: teens and hormones, pro: picking the curriculum and the one on one learning.

[speedmom4]

There are so many pros to homeschooling for hs. My teens aren't as peer dependent as their public/private school friends. Both of my teens work during their spare time. My oldest teaches piano and my younger dd babysits. They both have more free time to do what they love. As a mom the pros are being able to spend more quality together.

 

I guess the cons would be not being able to be involved in a highly competitive team sport. Another con would be that some teens seem to do better when accountability isn't with a parent.

 

Hope those help.

 

Elise in NC

[regentrude]

For us:

Pros:

free choice of curriculum, being able to tailor education to student's interest and capabilities.

More effective learning, i.e. accomplishing same academic goal takes a lot less time than in school - so more time to pursue other interests

student not immersed in an atmosphere of teen drama and academic mediocrity

 

Cons:

parents not experts in all subjects at high school level; must outsource some

less access to extracurricular activities

arranging AP tests more of a hassle

have to figure out the whole college admissions process myself (big headache and source of insecurity)

 

For us, the pros outweigh the cons.

[creekland]

Pros of homeschooling:

 

- Freedom of schedule - both daily and annual

- Picking curricula that suits the student and being able to take as much or as little time as needed to learn concepts

- Not being limited for time to cover the WHOLE subject

- No off limit subjects due to controversy (religious, political, pc)

- No hall/bathroom passes or other assorted "baby" stuff at school

- No bullying issues or other teen school drama

- Less testing and other wasted days

- More personal college application from the "Guidance" department

 

Pros of public schooling:

 

- Freedom from preparing curricula and lessons and grading

- PE classes and Drivers Ed

- Sports teams, band, chorus, orchestra, school play options

- Peer set to choose from

- Exposure to a variety of people (teachers and students)

- More adult free time (if at home)

- Ready made transcript for college applications

 

It depends issue:

 

Quality of education... around here, there's more quality in a well done homeschooling setting than in ps. At some places there's decent quality in ps. I'd be checking AP test stats or ACT/SAT test stats at any local school the next time I check for quality before relocating. This time - when we moved here - I simply went off of word of mouth "good schools" and took it for granted. That was not a good way of choosing. :tongue_smilie:

 

Note - within schools one can get good and not so good teachers too, but there are whole systems that are good and not so good as I've learned by experience.

[TheApprentice]

Thanks for responding. I've been home schooling for 4 years and I just wanted to know if there are unseen pitfalls to home schooling high school that may be different.

[SkateLeft]

I think it depends on your personal situation.

 

I can tell you that when my daughter went over to the local public high school to take driver's ed this year, she thought the kids looked like the most sullen, miserable bunch of people she'd ever seen. She said they spent a lot of time staring at each other. Considering that she's never been in a regular public school, though she's happily taking college classes this year, it was interesting to hear her observations.

 

Oh, and she noticed how few windows there are in the classrooms.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Please help me make this list. Ds and I are going to have a discussion about his future choices.

 

Not looking competitive on paper for college.

 

Before anyone jumps on me, I know that homeschoolers have gotten into some great colleges.

 

But I also think that you have to be eyes-wide-open about what your local competition is. For us, living in a high income and highly educated area, there are high school students graduating with incredible transcripts and extra curriculars. That is the bar I have to make sure I'm meeting. Students passing AP Calc or graduating with half a dozen or more AP courses (with passing scores) is not uncommon. Sure there are struggling students too, but that's not who my kids will be in competition with.

 

If we lived somewhere with lower academics, where the bulk of the grads were struggling with reading and writing, it would be a different comparison.

 

I also know that it will be really hard for my son to swim competitively in high school without being on a PS team. And expensive. Just paying for 5 days of practice with a club will be a couple thousand dollars.

[Ester Maria]

PROS:

- Less rigid daily / weekly structure, more flexibility as regards time in general;

- Flexibility with regard to travel, holidays, time off, and learning days: to take into consideration for a family whose kids travel or do not spend all of the year on the same location;

- No "school atmosphere" with all the accompanying drama;

- No psycho-politico-social PC indoctrination in place of an actual education;

- Full attention to the child's academic needs and a possibility to tailor their education a bit to their personality and interests;

- A possibility of going deeper / broader with the subjects as needed and wanted, while working a lot more efficiently;

- You have kids at home, a more family-centered than peer-centered life, and you are more likely to know what exactly is going on with them;

- Reducing the risks of making poor choices at critical ages (as regards whom your teens associate with, what they consume, what they focus on, etc.).

 

CONS:

- Reduced academic credibility of what you do at home, for obvious reasons ("mommy grades" phenomenon unless you do outside verifications for what you do);

- A possibility of an academic 'handicapping' of the child due to them not having an access to people more knowledgeable in their fields than you are and who can take it to another level;

- Also, the reduced resources (in terms of labs, sports facilities, international academic competition teams, etc.), which many of the good public and private schools have;

- The lack of a clear separation between "mother" and "teacher", which many teens need to flourish, wishing to draw boundaries in their personal and professional relationships;

- The lack of exposure to a wider variety of people, a bit of "sheltered" atmosphere;

- While you can provide at home an excellent substitute for many schools, there still are public or private schools which can provide far more, and far better, and in the case of an access to such a school, paired up with a child's desire to attend, it may really be short-sighted to insist on homeschooling;

- The famous socialization (in terms of going-outs, sharing common interests, trips together, whatever it is that school kids do and that many of us have nice memories from) and a threat that a child, while learning to function academically, will not pick up street-smartness so easily, and high school is an excellent informal learning time, with all of its opportunities, of how to function in a society, stand up for yourself and others, "know your place" when needed, deal with authorities, learn to turn the situations you encounter into your favor, and so forth.

 

For us, the benefits of homeschooling have long outweighted the downsides. Lately, however, we have not been so sure and we have opened ourselves for a possibility - and we will see whether and how that will work - of having our daughters spend some time, and possibly even finish their formal education, institutionally. I feel that I have pretty much "taught them all I could" anyway, and that it is a time for them to spread their wings and go out into the world more - which I as a parent fear in many ways, but which I know is a natural step which has to occur at some point. They have to become independent intellectually, socially, have aspects of their lives to cope with without parental oversight, and most of all, they need other people's insights, skills, things to learn from and about.

[jamajo]

I think it depends on your personal situation.

 

I can tell you that when my daughter went over to the local public high school to take driver's ed this year, she thought the kids looked like the most sullen, miserable bunch of people she'd ever seen. She said they spent a lot of time staring at each other. Considering that she's never been in a regular public school, though she's happily taking college classes this year, it was interesting to hear her observations.

 

Oh, and she noticed how few windows there are in the classrooms.

 

 

This is a really interesting observation. Similarly, PS high schoolers seem so disengaged. I notice this at church. They only seem to know how to interact with each other and have very little interest in adults.

 

My kids have only been home 2.5 years with my 9th grader spending equal amounts of time in both public school and private christian school. Her perspective is so unique and I love the passion she has for being home for high school.

 

PRO:

*She learns and processes her studies at her own pace (obvious pro for everyone)

*Home cooked meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner (no one mentioned this one)!

*ability to form her self esteem independent of peer criticism. (in 6th grade PS she started asking me could she wax her eyebrows b/c someone said she had a uni-brow:001_huh:). And her fashion choices were heavily influenced by fads then but not so much now.

*unhurried family lifestyle (we were all in a rat race when my kids were in school and our family life suffered).

*taking advantage of community offerings (she plays in a community Volleyball league, takes science at a local coop, and takes Art lessons from a commissioned artist).

*learning is the goal not passing the SOLs!!!

*ability to take advantage of Dual Enrollment for higher maths, sciences, and college composition at 16 in my state.

 

I feel as though I have greater access to professionals in the field compared to professionals in academia.

 

CON

*bigger pool of ready made "friends"

 

It's a little harder at home to foster good friendships. You have to proactively work with other homeschool families to get your kids together. There is interaction at coop and Volleyball but the quality friendships are still lacking because the pool is smaller.

 

However, I am hoping that Dual Enrollment classes will solve this problem.

[lauracolumbus]

:

 

- Cons

- While you can provide at home an excellent substitute for many schools, there still are public or private schools which can provide far more, and far better, and in the case of an access to such a school, paired up with a child's desire to attend, it may really be short-sighted to insist on homeschooling;

- The famous socialization (in terms of going-outs, sharing common interests, trips together, whatever it is that school kids do and that many of us have nice memories from) and a threat that a child, while learning to function academically, will not pick up street-smartness so easily, and high school is an excellent informal learning time, with all of its opportunities, of how to function in a society, stand up for yourself and others, "know your place" when needed, deal with authorities, l

 

Ester Maria, you articulated my concerns so eloquently!

 

We have access to an amazing private all boys Catholic prep school that includes 4 years of Latin and an amazing science lab, and I am mightily struggling with this decision. Ds does want to go. In theory. I'm not sure he's ready for the rigidity and rigor of this school. Nor do I want to hold him back. DH is concerned that he will get mediocre grades and therefore will hurt his chances at getting into a good college. We've known several homeschool boys who didn't do well. Plus, I'm not sure I want ds in such a pressure cooker.

 

This decision is haunting me.

 

Thanks for posting the original question and all the responses.

 

Laura

[jhschool]

For us the biggest pro is that our DS is not

in an environment where, if you work hard and love

learning, you are a "geek" or a "nerd" and people call

you "smartypants" or "overachiever." If you love music that

is not hiphop or rap,

you are an "ork dork" or a "band geek." If you like your

parents and enjoy spending time with your family, you

are a "loser." If you don't watch TV, you are

"weird." The grownups are similar. I have encountered

parents who are horrified to find out that we are bringing our

son up to be father and husband, and to provide for his

family. They tell me that we are stifling him, and that we

should not impose "our values" on him; that we should let

him make his own decisions.

 

I am still shocked why that is the norm in most public

high schools. The large majority of people do *not* look up

to the ones who study hard, love music, or behave themselves.

 

Not being in that kind of environment is our BIGGEST PRO.

At home he is free to love to learn, to be himself, to love music,

to enjoy his family, and to be who he wants to be and follow

a family-oriented life.

 

Of note, he is a very happy, well-adjusted young man, who

is a pleasure to be around, and is very hard working.

[G5052]

PRO: flexibility, options, ability to up or down the level of class to the child's capabilities (I expect MUCH more in the 3 R's that local schools do, even the $20,000/year ones)

 

CON: requires more of my time and attention to keep things college-prep

 

We thankfully have the ability to outsource what I struggle with to teachers who love the subject and expect excellence. The cost is much, much less than private school, which is well out of our reach.

[Ester Maria]

We have access to an amazing private all boys Catholic prep school that includes 4 years of Latin and an amazing science lab, and I am mightily struggling with this decision. Ds does want to go. In theory. I'm not sure he's ready for the rigidity and rigor of this school. Nor do I want to hold him back. DH is concerned that he will get mediocre grades and therefore will hurt his chances at getting into a good college. We've known several homeschool boys who didn't do well. Plus, I'm not sure I want ds in such a pressure cooker.

Laura, I understand the struggle with the decision as I went through something similar quite recently. :grouphug: I am still anxious as to how all of it is going to actually work, but I do think that in some cases, if you have a good gut feeling, it may be worth taking a shot at a school too. NOT that I am dissuading anyone from homeschooling, especially on a homeschooling forum! But, those that we all listed as downsides are some very real concerns too, if you have an access to a good school.

 

We have opted, ultimately, to leave the decision up to our children - at this age, I believe they should have a definite say in the modalities of their schooling (assuming we are talking about responsible, interested kids, good students who care about their education, not kids who are just getting things done pro forma, but take no further interest). The risk factor is always there, but then again, I would hate to withhold opportunities from them... and a good school does, potentially, open many doors that would otherwise remain closed for them.

 

Is it at all possible to send your son to that school for a trial semester? Maybe that would be a potential solution for you.

[Ester Maria]

*Home cooked meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner (no one mentioned this one)!

This is an important one too. :D

[Mommyfaithe]

One of the cons...and sorry, this is sexist...

 

It is difficult for boys, in my experience, to be home so much and have to answer for EVERYTHING to their mother. They seem to need more interaction than my girls.

 

If I homeschool my 2 little boys up until high school...I am definitely going to dual enroll them for 11/12 th grade.

[Myeightkiddies]

Pro:

In some areas homeschooled students may dual-enroll at a younger age than public school students.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Pro:

In some areas homeschooled students may dual-enroll at a younger age than public school students.

 

Con: Several of the online courses available free to a public schooled student can be expensive to homeschoolers. There are state sanctioned (and accredited) online courses in my state. If you are a public school student, the district pays for them. If you are a homeschooler, it costs about $500 per course.

[Myeightkiddies]

Con: Several of the online courses available free to a public schooled student can be expensive to homeschoolers. There are state sanctioned (and accredited) online courses in my state. If you are a public school student, the district pays for them. If you are a homeschooler, it costs about $500 per course.

 

Pro:

In some areas, dual-enrollment is free to homeschoolers. They only need to purchase the books.

[Sweetpeach]

One of the cons...and sorry, this is sexist...

 

It is difficult for boys, in my experience, to be home so much and have to answer for EVERYTHING to their mother. They seem to need more interaction than my girls.

 

If I homeschool my 2 little boys up until high school...I am definitely going to dual enroll them for 11/12 th grade.[/quote

 

:iagree: and I wonder what sort of strategies hs'ing moms use to get around this. Mom plans a course of action and Dad plays the "accountability" role? I spend a great deal of time wondering how I can respectfully call my boys forward in an academic way without them feeling like they are under my thumb and have to do their work because "mom said so". When the push-back comes, how do you hold your ground without having your young men lose their minds?

 

T

[G5052]

One of the cons...and sorry, this is sexist...

 

It is difficult for boys, in my experience, to be home so much and have to answer for EVERYTHING to their mother. They seem to need more interaction than my girls.

 

If I homeschool my 2 little boys up until high school...I am definitely going to dual enroll them for 11/12 th grade.

 

For us dual enrollment is more expensive than outside homeschool courses. Starting in 7th he really needed more independence. No regrets although we've had to make some adjustments here in there (in some cases I ask for more work than the teacher gives).

[TheApprentice]

This is the kind of information I was looking for. I guess my biggest worry is not 9th grade work, but when he is a junior/senior and how to meet his academic/social needs. And the whole "mommy" factor. It really is difficult to return to school in this area if you don't start in the 9th grade. And the school we want him to attend is decent, but it's still a school and all that it entails.

[EKS]

PROS:

- Less rigid daily / weekly structure, more flexibility as regards time in general;

- Flexibility with regard to travel, holidays, time off, and learning days: to take into consideration for a family whose kids travel or do not spend all of the year on the same location;

- No "school atmosphere" with all the accompanying drama;

- No psycho-politico-social PC indoctrination in place of an actual education;

- Full attention to the child's academic needs and a possibility to tailor their education a bit to their personality and interests;

- A possibility of going deeper / broader with the subjects as needed and wanted, while working a lot more efficiently;

- You have kids at home, a more family-centered than peer-centered life, and you are more likely to know what exactly is going on with them;

- Reducing the risks of making poor choices at critical ages (as regards whom your teens associate with, what they consume, what they focus on, etc.).

 

CONS:

- Reduced academic credibility of what you do at home, for obvious reasons ("mommy grades" phenomenon unless you do outside verifications for what you do);

- A possibility of an academic 'handicapping' of the child due to them not having an access to people more knowledgeable in their fields than you are and who can take it to another level;

- Also, the reduced resources (in terms of labs, sports facilities, international academic competition teams, etc.), which many of the good public and private schools have;

- The lack of a clear separation between "mother" and "teacher", which many teens need to flourish, wishing to draw boundaries in their personal and professional relationships;

- The lack of exposure to a wider variety of people, a bit of "sheltered" atmosphere;

- While you can provide at home an excellent substitute for many schools, there still are public or private schools which can provide far more, and far better, and in the case of an access to such a school, paired up with a child's desire to attend, it may really be short-sighted to insist on homeschooling;

- The famous socialization (in terms of going-outs, sharing common interests, trips together, whatever it is that school kids do and that many of us have nice memories from) and a threat that a child, while learning to function academically, will not pick up street-smartness so easily, and high school is an excellent informal learning time, with all of its opportunities, of how to function in a society, stand up for yourself and others, "know your place" when needed, deal with authorities, learn to turn the situations you encounter into your favor, and so forth.

 

 

 

This. All of it. And this is why we will be sending our older son to a private school in January.

[Elizabeth in WA]

This. All of it. And this is why we will be sending our older son to a private school in January.

 

And this is why my ds16, 10th grade, is starting dual enrollment in January and will be fulltime dual enrolled for 11th and 12th.

[Ester Maria]

And this is why my ds16, 10th grade, is starting dual enrollment in January and will be fulltime dual enrolled for 11th and 12th.

Wow, what is up with that January? We seem to be collectively putting our oldest kids to schools in January, there are at least 3-4 of us for now. :lol:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

One of the cons...and sorry, this is sexist...

 

It is difficult for boys, in my experience, to be home so much and have to answer for EVERYTHING to their mother. They seem to need more interaction than my girls.

 

If I homeschool my 2 little boys up until high school...I am definitely going to dual enroll them for 11/12 th grade.[/quote

 

:iagree: and I wonder what sort of strategies hs'ing moms use to get around this. Mom plans a course of action and Dad plays the "accountability" role? I spend a great deal of time wondering how I can respectfully call my boys forward in an academic way without them feeling like they are under my thumb and have to do their work because "mom said so". When the push-back comes, how do you hold your ground without having your young men lose their minds?

 

T

 

I don't know if this would work for anyone else, but my strategy has been to get my sons to see things my way:

 

1. They are less bossed around by me than they would be at ps. There's only one of me, and they grudgingly agree that a mother does indeed have some right to boss her children around while they are still at home. At school there would be no end of people, mostly women, bossing them around.

 

2. They have more independence and respect overall than they might in school. They are not treated as random teens, stereotyped and put through the paces in a herd. At home, they are young men about to be adults and they have lots of input and discussion concerning their education and everything else that they do. They have much more freedom than their ps friends, both during and after study hours.

 

3. The advantages of homeschooling outweigh the annoyances. They know they are learning more academically than they would in ps, and they know they are being better prepared for careers and adult life. By the teen years they have internalized this as a very important part of their upbringing and they are willing to do the work to get the payoffs.

 

Mom vs. dozens of teachers: They prefer just Mom.

 

Independence and earlier maturity vs. perpetual adolescence and powerlessness? Again, my system wins.

 

Latin, Greek, interesting History, and understandable Math vs. a watery and boring (yet time-consuming) public school curriculum? Again, home wins.

 

Homeschooling teen boys is not easy. It takes lots of laughter, cookies, and knowing when to retreat to opposite corners of the house. Still, it can be done if everyone (including the boys) really believes in what we're doing.

[creekland]

One of the cons...and sorry, this is sexist...

 

It is difficult for boys, in my experience, to be home so much and have to answer for EVERYTHING to their mother. They seem to need more interaction than my girls.

 

If I homeschool my 2 little boys up until high school...I am definitely going to dual enroll them for 11/12 th grade.

 

:iagree: and I wonder what sort of strategies hs'ing moms use to get around this. Mom plans a course of action and Dad plays the "accountability" role? I spend a great deal of time wondering how I can respectfully call my boys forward in an academic way without them feeling like they are under my thumb and have to do their work because "mom said so". When the push-back comes, how do you hold your ground without having your young men lose their minds?

 

T

 

I've never had any sort of strategy and never really felt like I needed one. I'm not at all sure what we did differently from the norm, but my guys just like learning things. Our youngest wants more of the social life from ps, so he's enrolled even though he's getting an inferior education there, but he's not fighting me with doing more outside of school because he's seen that he needs more to accomplish what he wants in life.

 

I don't have girls to compare...

[Elizabeth in WA]

 

I don't know if this would work for anyone else, but my strategy has been to get my sons to see things my way:

 

1. They are less bossed around by me than they would be at ps. There's only one of me, and they grudgingly agree that a mother does indeed have some right to boss her children around while they are still at home. At school there would be no end of people, mostly women, bossing them around.

 

2. They have more independence and respect overall than they might in school. They are not treated as random teens, stereotyped and put through the paces in a herd. At home, they are young men about to be adults and they have lots of input and discussion concerning their education and everything else that they do. They have much more freedom than their ps friends, both during and after study hours.

 

3. The advantages of homeschooling outweigh the annoyances. They know they are learning more academically than they would in ps, and they know they are being better prepared for careers and adult life. By the teen years they have internalized this as a very important part of their upbringing and they are willing to do the work to get the payoffs.

 

Mom vs. dozens of teachers: They prefer just Mom.

 

Independence and earlier maturity vs. perpetual adolescence and powerlessness? Again, my system wins.

 

Latin, Greek, interesting History, and understandable Math vs. a watery and boring (yet time-consuming) public school curriculum? Again, home wins.

 

Homeschooling teen boys is not easy. It takes lots of laughter, cookies, and knowing when to retreat to opposite corners of the house. Still, it can be done if everyone (including the boys) really believes in what we're doing.

 

Many of these points are addressed for my oldest via dual enrollment at the local cc rather than ps. In general students there are treated as young adults and have great deal of input into ther education with course requirements existing at all only to the extent that you wish to attain a credentialor recieve entrance into a class with prerequisites. I wouldn't say the student-professor relationship really involves "bossing around" although there is certainly a heirarchy and professors do set requirements for in class behavior and scholastic performance for passing grades that students must meet, but those sorts of power dynamics exist throughout the adult world.

 

In fact, the high schools I attended did not operate at all in the way you describe public schools, so I am not sure that that is in any way universally true of student experiences in high school.

 

 

Also, I think multiple teachers, each a subject matter expert, are a major advantage of school versus homeschool.

[lauracolumbus]

Laura, I understand the struggle with the decision as I went through something similar quite recently. :grouphug: I am still anxious as to how all of it is going to actually work, but I do think that in some cases, if you have a good gut feeling, it may be worth taking a shot at a school too. NOT that I am dissuading anyone from homeschooling, especially on a homeschooling forum! But, those that we all listed as downsides are some very real concerns too, if you have an access to a good school.

 

We have opted, ultimately, to leave the decision up to our children - at this age, I believe they should have a definite say in the modalities of their schooling (assuming we are talking about responsible, interested kids, good students who care about their education, not kids who are just getting things done pro forma, but take no further interest). The risk factor is always there, but then again, I would hate to withhold opportunities from them... and a good school does, potentially, open many doors that would otherwise remain closed for them.

 

Is it at all possible to send your son to that school for a trial semester? Maybe that would be a potential solution for you.

 

Ester Maria,

I agree. Ultimately the decision is up to my ds because his success in either situation will depend on how vested he is in whatever educational path he takes. My concern is that he doesn't appreciate how fundamentally different (for both the better and the worse) his life will be next year if he goes to this particular high school. I would not send him full time to our public high school even though it is a good one because the trade off isn't worth it.

 

I am going to try to have him experience slogging through 2-3 hours of homework every night, waking to an alarm at zero dark thirty, to making it through an eight hour day w/o snacking/fidgeting/talking whenever he wants for several weeks before we apply to this school. Unfortunately, they do not have a trial term, although if things go south his first term, he can always return home, which does give me some comfort.

 

I hope you can share your dd's experience as you navigate these waters.

 

Laura

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

Many of these points are addressed for my oldest via dual enrollment at the local cc rather than ps. In general students there are treated as young adults and have great deal of input into ther education with course requirements existing at all only to the extent that you wish to attain a credentialor recieve entrance into a class with prerequisites. I wouldn't say the student-professor relationship really involves "bossing around" although there is certainly a heirarchy and professors do set requirements for in class behavior and scholastic performance for passing grades that students must meet, but those sorts of power dynamics exist throughout the adult world.

 

In fact, the high schools I attended did not operate at all in the way you describe public schools, so I am not sure that that is in any way universally true of student experiences in high school.

 

 

Also, I think multiple teachers, each a subject matter expert, are a major advantage of school versus homeschool.

 

This is where regional differences come into play, I guess. If I had access to schools that treated teen boys with respect and had subject matter experts teaching high school courses, I would certainly consider enrolling my sons.

[Nscribe]

Thank you for an interesting thread.

[creekland]

 

This is where regional differences come into play, I guess. If I had access to schools that treated teen boys with respect and had subject matter experts teaching high school courses, I would certainly consider enrolling my sons.

 

We don't have problem with respect here. We just have severe apathy among most of the students and a dumbed down curricula pretty much across the board.

 

Even our cc classes (dual enrollment) aren't really a challenge. Oldest told me if he'd had to take his English class at his 4 year school (if his credits hadn't transferred) he'd have had to do a lot more work for the same credit. In hindsight, I wouldn't have let him keep the credits as I prize the deeper education more.

 

Then too, middle son would have a nick against him for future med school applications if he did the wrong classes in cc (pre-req classes).

 

There's a whole bunch of things to consider... true academic levels of available alternatives are a biggie.

[8filltheheart]

One of the cons...and sorry, this is sexist...

 

It is difficult for boys, in my experience, to be home so much and have to answer for EVERYTHING to their mother. They seem to need more interaction than my girls.

 

If I homeschool my 2 little boys up until high school...I am definitely going to dual enroll them for 11/12 th grade.

 

 

A few yrs ago I would have agreed wholeheartedly w/you, but now I realize it really is child dependent. Our oldest and I did clash A LOT over academics. He has since thanked me profusely for the education I provided him, but at the time he had a hard time separating teacher critiquing from being mom-criticism.

 

However, our 15 yos is a pure joy to homeschool. I cannot imagine ever sending him to school. He is thriving in being allowed to pursue his bizarre academic path that he has mapped out for himself. He is completely self-motivated. We are going to have him dual enroll in a couple of classes next yr simply b/c they are college level courses that we just can't do at home.

 

Anyway, my experience w/him is completely different than w/our oldest.

 

FWIW, in regards to the OP questions, I disagree w/the premise that sending them to school will necessarily help them advance further. Our 15 yos would not have the opportunities to take the high level coursework he is taking in ps. We have had to be creative in how we approach some topics, but it is working.

[rlugbill]

Pros- Sleep. Schooled kids are almost all sleep-deprived. This is not appropriate or healthy for teens. I think it is responsible for much of the attitudes of teens, depression, anxiety, etc. Also- lifestyle. Homeschooled families can relax and enjoy their time with their children in the evening. Schooled kids and their families are doing homework. Every evening is homework time, not family time.

 

It's a rat race for the school kids who are trying to get into good colleges. The suburban kids who do AP classes, extra-curricular activities, etc. are busy 24/7. They are already in a rat race. They often put in 12-14 hr. days. It is a world different from homeschooled kids. And they aren't going at their own pace or following their own interests. They are following the school's pace and the school curriculum.

 

Cons- money. It costs more to homeschool high school because it takes more outside classes and lessons. It's all free at the public high school. Also, one parent normally stays home, so this is reduced income for the family.

 

Best wishes.

[elegantlion]

 

I don't know if this would work for anyone else, but my strategy has been to get my sons to see things my way:

 

1. They are less bossed around by me than they would be at ps. There's only one of me, and they grudgingly agree that a mother does indeed have some right to boss her children around while they are still at home. At school there would be no end of people, mostly women, bossing them around.

 

2. They have more independence and respect overall than they might in school. They are not treated as random teens, stereotyped and put through the paces in a herd. At home, they are young men about to be adults and they have lots of input and discussion concerning their education and everything else that they do. They have much more freedom than their ps friends, both during and after study hours.

 

3. The advantages of homeschooling outweigh the annoyances. They know they are learning more academically than they would in ps, and they know they are being better prepared for careers and adult life. By the teen years they have internalized this as a very important part of their upbringing and they are willing to do the work to get the payoffs.

 

Mom vs. dozens of teachers: They prefer just Mom.

 

Independence and earlier maturity vs. perpetual adolescence and powerlessness? Again, my system wins.

 

Latin, Greek, interesting History, and understandable Math vs. a watery and boring (yet time-consuming) public school curriculum? Again, home wins.

 

Homeschooling teen boys is not easy. It takes lots of laughter, cookies, and knowing when to retreat to opposite corners of the house. Still, it can be done if everyone (including the boys) really believes in what we're doing.

 

Thank you, I needed to hear this. We laugh a lot and like cookies, so we're on the right path.

 

However, our 15 yos is a pure joy to homeschool. I cannot imagine ever sending him to school. He is thriving in being allowed to pursue his bizarre academic path that he has mapped out for himself. He is completely self-motivated. We are going to have him dual enroll in a couple of classes next yr simply b/c they are college level courses that we just can't do at home.

 

 

Also thank you. My ds is creating a bizarre academic path that could not be replicated at the public school. CC or university classes may not be an option for us.

[creekland]

Pros- Sleep. Schooled kids are almost all sleep-deprived. This is not appropriate or healthy for teens. I think it is responsible for much of the attitudes of teens, depression, anxiety, etc. Also- lifestyle. Homeschooled families can relax and enjoy their time with their children in the evening. Schooled kids and their families are doing homework. Every evening is homework time, not family time.

 

 

I suppose this depends upon where one goes to school. My public schooled son very rarely has homework (and has straight As), but my homeschooled son is often working on academics in the evening (has a couple of classes aiming for AP tests). Of course, the homeschooler is more free during the day, and I've never called our public school "good" where academics are concerned.

[delaney]

Here's one of the things I like about freedom in the HS schedule and I wish my oldest were home for high school. He is interested in graphic arts as a career but to get into that field you really have to have experience. How do you get that while in PS or a 4 year college? You don't. I wish he could volunteer/apprentice somewhere and not waste his time on the not so up to date programs the school offers-kwim?

For me college is a no brainer. They start at community and transfer where they want to go in year 3. I am not spending big money while they "find" themselves at a 4 year school. In PS I think there is a bigger push to look successful and get right into a 4 year school. For me that is a mistake most college bound teens make.

[delaney]

Pros- Sleep. Schooled kids are almost all sleep-deprived. This is not appropriate or healthy for teens. I think it is responsible for much of the attitudes of teens, depression, anxiety, etc. Also- lifestyle. Homeschooled families can relax and enjoy their time with their children in the evening. Schooled kids and their families are doing homework. Every evening is homework time, not family time.

 

It's a rat race for the school kids who are trying to get into good colleges. The suburban kids who do AP classes, extra-curricular activities, etc. are busy 24/7. They are already in a rat race. They often put in 12-14 hr. days. It is a world different from homeschooled kids. And they aren't going at their own pace or following their own interests. They are following the school's pace and the school curriculum.

 

Cons- money. It costs more to homeschool high school because it takes more outside classes and lessons. It's all free at the public high school. Also, one parent normally stays home, so this is reduced income for the family.

 

Best wishes.

The sleep issue is HUGE. WHy not let the older kids start later? I hate that I have to disrupt my older boys from a sound sleep to shove them out the door. 11-5 would be a great schedule for my older boys.

[memphispeg]

Biggest con if there's no money - having to create high-level, comprehensive curricula. I quit work in order to hs. Fortunately, the internet has matured and has been a real help.

Another con - convincing the dd that she can/should learn at the level of effort/sophistication chosen. Getting her to maintain interest and focus.

Yet another con - this is not always applicable. Lack of intellectual interaction with peers. Dd will have to wait until college to get this.

The final con - mommy/teacher, enemy/friend.

 

Biggest pro - an opportunity for an intellectual workout for mommy.

[Laura Corin]

Lately, however, we have not been so sure and we have opened ourselves for a possibility - and we will see whether and how that will work - of having our daughters spend some time, and possibly even finish their formal education, institutionally. I feel that I have pretty much "taught them all I could" anyway, and that it is a time for them to spread their wings and go out into the world more - which I as a parent fear in many ways, but which I know is a natural step which has to occur at some point. They have to become independent intellectually, socially, have aspects of their lives to cope with without parental oversight, and most of all, they need other people's insights, skills, things to learn from and about.

 

He needed to spread his wings and exchange ideas with other people. He has soared in school.

 

Laura

[newbie]

Pro is you know their strength and weakness. Great values and you get your kid home w/you.

 

Con is expense, its sooo expensive.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

Thank you, I needed to hear this. We laugh a lot and like cookies, so we're on the right path.

 

 

 

Also thank you. My ds is creating a bizarre academic path that could not be replicated at the public school. CC or university classes may not be an option for us.

 

:grouphug:

 

I would really like to hear about this bizarre academic path. Have you been discussing his pursuits on the board? If so, link? (in your spare time, of course)

[cathmom]

For me the disadvantages are as follows:

 

-hit to family income by time spent homeschooling

-not having a teacher who is totally into each subject (I admit that this might not happen at school either)

-lack of motivation via peer competition

-entire burden of teaching/responsibility/guidance counseling on homeschooling parent

-lack of community

-expense

 

 

The advantages are mainly having the curriculum tailored just to the student.

[Muttichen]

If you are trying for the top schools, homeschooling can be an advantage because it makes your child interesting. An admissions officer told my daughter that Harvard even has a quota for homeschoolers!

Edited December 20, 2011 by Muttichen
still trying to learn to use quotes

[elegantlion]

 

:grouphug:

 

I would really like to hear about this bizarre academic path. Have you been discussing his pursuits on the board? If so, link? (in your spare time, of course)

 

I don't know if it would be considered truly bizarre in this group, but it would in our little small town school.

 

He's taking Japanese and Latin for starters. The nearest university doesn't even offer these. We're doing integrated science over 3 years instead of breaking out physics, chem, and bio. We're studying Great Books, which does not happen in our high school.

 

We were discussing high school this week, talking about creating a cohesive package for the four years. We discussed my requirements for core classes and electives. I told him I will help create electives and he perked up when I mentioned doing a .5 credit class on Star Trek and its influence. He's also expressed a desire to learn German and Russian. :001_huh:

 

We are also using fall, winter, and spring sessions instead of semester or quarters, but that's more on the admin side.

 

I also believe in allowing free time for interests. Right now he's into computer stuff, video editing, programming.

 

So not really bizarre here, but definitely more custom-designed than he would ever get at the local high school. Who knows what he'll come up with in a few years.

[Trilliums]

Not looking competitive on paper for college.

 

Before anyone jumps on me, I know that homeschoolers have gotten into some great colleges.

 

But I also think that you have to be eyes-wide-open about what your local competition is. For us, living in a high income and highly educated area, there are high school students graduating with incredible transcripts and extra curriculars. That is the bar I have to make sure I'm meeting. Students passing AP Calc or graduating with half a dozen or more AP courses (with passing scores) is not uncommon. Sure there are struggling students too, but that's not who my kids will be in competition with.

 

If we lived somewhere with lower academics, where the bulk of the grads were struggling with reading and writing, it would be a different comparison.

 

I also know that it will be really hard for my son to swim competitively in high school without being on a PS team. And expensive. Just paying for 5 days of practice with a club will be a couple thousand dollars.

 

 

This has really hit the nail on the head for me. Our local high school has high academic standards and an atmosphere where hard working kids garner respect among their peers. The school offers AP classes, dual enrollment at the state University, as well as college credit classes at the high school itself. DS#1 would like to apply to selective colleges (MIT, Stanford, CalTech) and I am just not sure the home experience will provide him with the same academic edge and substantiated validation of his abilities as the public school would. He is able to dual enroll at the high school and he is currently taking 2 STEM classes, which are his strengths and passion. I worry however, that by focusing on the STEM classes at the public school, our at home LA and SS classes will not be of the same challenging level. I am beginning to feel at a loss as to how to provide challenging and continuous education for the kids in these subjects. We had a long discussion about this last night at dinner. On the plus side, by staying at home the kids have the opportunity to focus more on their unique interests, but pursuing these at a high level has proven difficult. Physics intern anyone??

[creekland]

This has really hit the nail on the head for me. Our local high school has high academic standards and an atmosphere where hard working kids garner respect among their peers. The school offers AP classes, dual enrollment at the state University, as well as college credit classes at the high school itself. DS#1 would like to apply to selective colleges (MIT, Stanford, CalTech) and I am just not sure the home experience will provide him with the same academic edge and substantiated validation of his abilities as the public school would. He is able to dual enroll at the high school and he is currently taking 2 STEM classes, which are his strengths and passion. I worry however, that by focusing on the STEM classes at the public school, our at home LA and SS classes will not be of the same challenging level. I am beginning to feel at a loss as to how to provide challenging and continuous education for the kids in these subjects. We had a long discussion about this last night at dinner. On the plus side, by staying at home the kids have the opportunity to focus more on their unique interests, but pursuing these at a high level has proven difficult. Physics intern anyone??

 

I wish we lived in an area with high academic standards in our local ps. (sigh) Yesterday I just learned about a student who had a 4.0 GPA and had taken most top classes, yet got rejected from a decent (nationwide) LAC and was heartbroken. The problem? Her SAT score was in the 900's (CR + M). The bottom 25% for the LAC was near 1200 (I looked it up). I can't believe a guidance counselor would even get someone dreaming about such a school without a big dose of reality about the possibilities. She was sure she would get in... Now she's trying for one with a bottom 25% incoming score of 1090... I should note that this particular student isn't in my school, but the neighboring one and has no hook of any sort. I guess it makes me feel better that I wouldn't have done any better educationally if we'd lived one address over (we're right on the line between the two).

 

Sometimes I just get the feeling I'm on a whole different plane than the vast majority of local folks around us. When I mentioned that to our one soon to be NMSF this year (she got a 237 on the PSAT!!!!), she just looked at me and said, "You too? I've felt that way for years. It's frustrating." Now I know I have company, albeit, not adult company.

[8filltheheart]

This has really hit the nail on the head for me. Our local high school has high academic standards and an atmosphere where hard working kids garner respect among their peers. The school offers AP classes, dual enrollment at the state University, as well as college credit classes at the high school itself. DS#1 would like to apply to selective colleges (MIT, Stanford, CalTech) and I am just not sure the home experience will provide him with the same academic edge and substantiated validation of his abilities as the public school would. He is able to dual enroll at the high school and he is currently taking 2 STEM classes, which are his strengths and passion. I worry however, that by focusing on the STEM classes at the public school, our at home LA and SS classes will not be of the same challenging level. I am beginning to feel at a loss as to how to provide challenging and continuous education for the kids in these subjects. We had a long discussion about this last night at dinner. On the plus side, by staying at home the kids have the opportunity to focus more on their unique interests, but pursuing these at a high level has proven difficult. Physics intern anyone??

 

My ds has a serious passion for physics. We have really had to be creative to meet his needs, but so far we have been able to. He owns just about every physics and astronomy course put out by the Teaching Company. He is on his 2nd college textbook for astronomy. (we went to Berkeley's website and have used their sequence.) The textbooks have online supplements that we have been able to access. He joined NASA's Inspire program and right now he is spending his time working on some space station competition w/another Inspire student.

 

Have you searched for Kathy in Richmond's posts? Her kids were accepted at the schools you listed. Her oldest has his masters from MIT and her dd is currently a sophomore at Stanford. Her posts can give insight into how it is doable at home.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1559496&highlight=schedule#post1559496

 

HTH

[Trilliums]

My ds has a serious passion for physics. We have really had to be creative to meet his needs, but so far we have been able to. He owns just about every physics and astronomy course put out by the Teaching Company. He is on his 2nd college textbook for astronomy. (we went to Berkeley's website and have used their sequence.) The textbooks have online supplements that we have been able to access. He joined NASA's Inspire program and right now he is spending his time working on some space station competition w/another Inspire student.

 

Have you searched for Kathy in Richmond's posts? Her kids were accepted at the schools you listed. Her oldest has his masters from MIT and her dd is currently a sophomore at Stanford. Her posts can give insight into how it is doable at home.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1559496&highlight=schedule#post1559496

 

HTH

 

Thanks for the info and link. I had read through many of her posts a while back. Re-reading them is always useful too. :)

 

I know we have the science down--he pursues it independently and voraciously. He has struggled with math in the past (he had a lot of reading struggles until 8th grade). Now he is on a good path for math and zipping through AoPS Geometry while concurrently working on Alg 2 and watching calculus lectures for fun (he decided to do this on his own). It is definitely the LA/SS part that has me worried. I have been looking through some online LA syllabi and I feel as though there is no way I can provide that much diversity and interconnection of ideas. He is using Oak Meadow 9th grade English because I wanted some kind of weekly guidance, but the program is very light. In fact we both thought it was a semester long course and I had to call them to verify it was for an entire year. This has given him plenty of time to do other things--for example he is also listening to Teaching Co. lecture on Herodotus. High school suddenly does seem so daunting! I think I will spend some time over the break working on a long term plan and post it in the forums for feed back.

thanks so much everyone for your comments and support. Great group. :001_smile::001_smile: