Bluegoat Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 DH and I were watching a movie the other night where a girl was possessed by demons and were also curious as to why only Catholic people become possessed in movies...or maybe they just know to call a Catholic priest when something like that happens? I think it is just one of those movie cliches. I had a prof in university, an Anglican priest, who was the official exorcist for our diocese. So it isn't an idea that is limited to Catholics by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I happen to think using humor to try an reassure someone that I like that they have nothing to fear from non-existent paranormal forces is a much nicer and better way to handle the situation than feeding feelings of paranoia. Bill I agree. I also think hearing only from people who believe in ghosts/demons is pretty one sided. I also find some of what the people who "believe" are writing every bit as humourous as Bill. They are both opposites of the same spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 This is an interesting discussion. Some people posting here don't have experience in this arena. If I were in their shoes, I might think as they do. To the OP, personally I think this experience is a good opportunity to read the New Testament of the Bible. There certainly are demons. The spiritual world is real despite what some people say. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, then He will be with you and live in you. He has all power and authority, much more than any demonic thing or spirit. If He is in you, then you are in the position of dealing with spiritual forces since He is stronger than they. If you are not in Jesus, then you are not in a good position to deal with any kinds of spirits. I think it is good to ask a Christian pastor to come and pray with you and in your house, espeicially if you do not have any experience walking with God or in dealing with spiritual matters. The rest of you can feel free to be snarky if you like, but the only way to get rid of the OP's situation is through Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Nah he would be far more mellow.:lol: And not logical at all. I cannot imagine him doing anything unseemly. Straight arrow that one. I can spot them a mile off. Well, I will admit it, I did LSD in college and still never saw a ghost, or demons. Now some strange tracers, the paint on the walls moving a bit, and a fascination with lights, but nope nothing supernatural. I have also played with Oujii boards while listening to Pink Floyd and smoking pot, still nothing. So go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Are they in the yellow pages? Exactly how would you go about getting a house cleansed? I don't not believe, or believe, but I find the experiences interesting. My SIL who is a scientist and very rational swears they have a ghost in her house. I personally find the idea intriguing, I figure if the dead wouldn't hurt you while you are alive, why would they hurt you when you are dead, so why get rid of them? Seriously curious. For a priest, yes, you can look up the number of a Catholic or Orthodox Church and ask to speak with the priest. I know there are other people that do cleansings, but I don't know what each may be called and I don't know which ones may or may not be listed. You could probably google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinor Everywhere Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Boy were you wrong! ;) :D Bill :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 DH and I were watching a movie the other night where a girl was possessed by demons and were also curious as to why only Catholic people become possessed in movies... Maybe those demons are only targeting the Catholics! :lol: Demon: Hey, this one's a Catholic. Come on guys! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 For those board members who believe or who have loved ones that suffer from drug addiction or mental illness, the "jokes" were highly inappropriate. Did you know there's a whole thread devoted to making jokes about people with NPD, which one poster even posted is currently a diagnosable mental illness? If it's okay over there, why isn't it okay over here? I for one KNOW that my mentally ill relatives have seen things no one else has seen. It's fair to mention that those who are either mentally ill OR taking medications for such (some of the side effects of certain drugs include hallucinations) could experience what they feel is the paranormal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 DH and I were watching a movie the other night where a girl was possessed by demons and were also curious as to why only Catholic people become possessed in movies...or maybe they just know to call a Catholic priest when something like that happens? My DH saw something once many years ago in an old inn turned restaurant where he used to work. The inn was built back in Revolutionary War times and is supposedly one of the oldest continuously running establishments. The inn is said to be haunted but he didn't believe in any of that and often joked about it. Late at night while counting money to close the registers, he says he saw a light come down the stairs, hover at the bottom of the stairs, then swish back up. No cars around...it was 2am and the inn is in a very country location. He would never close up by himself again. My middle ds when he was 3yo, once told us he had a dream of the woman who used to live in our home (there had been an animal-loving widow who died in our home many years before we purchased it....she fell through the ice into the lake during the winter and got pneumonia but we didn't know this until after ds's story) and said she told him he could use Bobo's house. We had no idea what he was talking about but the next fall while clearing leaves in the yard, we decided to put some of them into the woods next to the house and my husband walked the boys further into the woods just to look around and found an old dog house with Bobo painted on the front. It was a little weird. Another time around the same age he was sitting, seemingly awake in the middle of his bed and when I went in to check him, he kept crying about the "people" who were touching his toys in the corner of the room and didn't I see them "right there". It creeped me out so I scooped him up and took him into my bed. He never did anything like that after those two incidences and doesn't even remember them now. Maybe there are ration explanations for all those things. I don't think I can believe in ghosts unless I see one for myself though. I tend to think there are other explanations even if I don't know them...though just thinking about the experiences with my ds back then still give me the shivers. About the part I bolded -- could that have been a night terror or nightmare? I don't know about Bobo's house...could your son read at the time? Is it possible that he saw the house then dreamed about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Did you know there's a whole thread devoted to making jokes about people with NPD, which one poster even posted is currently a diagnosable mental illness? If it's okay over there, why isn't it okay over here? I for one KNOW that my mentally ill relatives have seen things no one else has seen. It's fair to mention that those who are either mentally ill OR taking medications for such (some of the side effects of certain drugs include hallucinations) could experience what they feel is the paranormal. I would say that it isn't ok anywhere. I don't think I read the thread you referenced. It is impossible to read them all. IMHO, accusing someone of mental illness isn't one of those jokes that plays well on an internet message board where there are so many people that you are bound to hurt or offend. Yes, mental illness or drug side effects or many other things can produce hallucinations. The possibility of those as causes could certainly be discussed in a respectful way. I'm just not sure that snarky humor about them in a large public forum where people have been asked to share their paranormal experiences or suggestions for assistance produces the kind of result the OP was hoping to get. Rather it insults anyone with a potentially helpful response and stifles dialog on the topic. It also is an insult to those who are perfectly sane and healthy and have experienced the inexplicable. Furthermore, I can't believe that I am asked to defend my opinion that snarky jokes about mental illness on a large message board are insulting or offensive. Some jokes are best kept private and among friends who share that sort of humor. I can't imagine I'd have to defend a similar opinion if the jokes were religious or racial in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Did you know there's a whole thread devoted to making jokes about people with NPD, which one poster even posted is currently a diagnosable mental illness? If it's okay over there, why isn't it okay over here? I for one KNOW that my mentally ill relatives have seen things no one else has seen. It's fair to mention that those who are either mentally ill OR taking medications for such (some of the side effects of certain drugs include hallucinations) could experience what they feel is the paranormal. When I was on that thread, I didn't see any jokes. Perhaps they were "survivor jokes" aka people trying to have a sense of humour about their abused past/present. NPD affects more than the mentally ill; it affects those around them and we have different coping mechanisms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Furthermore, I can't believe that I am asked to defend my opinion that snarky jokes about mental illness on a large message board are insulting or offensive. Some jokes are best kept private and among friends who share that sort of humor. I can't imagine I'd have to defend a similar opinion if the jokes were religious or racial in nature. :iagree:or share that sort of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 I would say that it isn't ok anywhere. I don't think I read the thread you referenced. It is impossible to read them all. IMHO, accusing someone of mental illness isn't one of those jokes that plays well on an internet message board where there are so many people that you are bound to hurt or offend. Yes, mental illness or drug side effects or many other things can produce hallucinations. The possibility of those as causes could certainly be discussed in a respectful way. I'm just not sure that snarky humor about them in a large public forum where people have been asked to share their paranormal experiences or suggestions for assistance produces the kind of result the OP was hoping to get. Rather it insults anyone with a potentially helpful response and stifles dialog on the topic. It also is an insult to those who are perfectly sane and healthy and have experienced the inexplicable. Furthermore, I can't believe that I am asked to defend my opinion that snarky jokes about mental illness on a large message board are insulting or offensive. Some jokes are best kept private and among friends who share that sort of humor. I can't imagine I'd have to defend a similar opinion if the jokes were religious or racial in nature. You know, when I first read the thread, I read it as conversation and the snarky posts didn't sound so snarky in that context. But reading it back as a whole, I agree with the above post, and feel compelled to apologize to many of the posters who put themselves out there to give advice - many of the posts that followed do seem kind of jr high and nasty. While it is not really my style to take such things personally (and knowing the nature of the board), I sincerely hope the other nice people who posted aren't offended by those posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 About the part I bolded -- could that have been a night terror or nightmare? I don't know about Bobo's house...could your son read at the time? Is it possible that he saw the house then dreamed about it? He did not know how to read when he was 3yo...he was my latest reader and didn't read until around 6yo. There is no way he saw the dog house prior to when we found it months after he told us about it. It was way back in the woods and he was only 3yo so never in those woods. We didn't go in the woods during the summer because of ticks and poison ivy. We lived on a lake at the time, the kids were never allowed outside without constant supervision until they were nearer to the preteen years. The other time...when he was sitting up in bed, didn't seem like a night terror. He was whimpering a little but not really upset that there was what he thought was someone there. He just didn't want them to touch his things. He never had night terrors before or after though years later he did walk in his sleep now and then. My nephew had night terrors and he screamed inconsolably for a very long time when he had them. This wasn't anything like that. He really seemed awake with his eyes open and him pointing to show me what he saw. It could very well have been a nightmare or a dream that kinda went between his sleep and wake states...who knows. Just creeped me out, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Maybe those demons are only targeting the Catholics! :lol: Demon: Hey, this one's a Catholic. Come on guys! :tongue_smilie: :001_smile: Yes, if Catholic priests are the only ones who can properly exorcise demons, they should be trickier and only go after non-Catholics so they'd have an easier time staying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 :001_smile: Yes, if Catholic priests are the only ones who can properly exorcise demons, they should be trickier and only go after non-Catholics so they'd have an easier time staying around. Ahhhh! Good point! Well, you know how it goes in the movies: the bad guys always end up getting sloppy and getting themselves caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 You know, when I first read the thread, I read it as conversation and the snarky posts didn't sound so snarky in that context. But reading it back as a whole, I agree with the above post, and feel compelled to apologize to many of the posters who put themselves out there to give advice - many of the posts that followed do seem kind of jr high and nasty. While it is not really my style to take such things personally (and knowing the nature of the board), I sincerely hope the other nice people who posted aren't offended by those posts. Thanks Laura-it was kind of you to say this. I hope you and your family are doing better and finding some peace. Of course I'm not-you've got me hooked on your food blog :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanne in MN Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Spirits are one thing, demons are another. Whatever you are experiencing doesn't sound like something I'd just ignore. I think I read one of the posts where you and your husband are Christians. I wouldn't doubt what your husband is experiencing. As a Catholic and a Christian, the first thing I would do is get holy water, sprinkle it in all the rooms and ask Jesus to bless our home, every nook and cranny, and protect it from evil spirits. I would announce my faith in Jesus Christ, praise Him for his power and strength over all and thank Him for blessing our home, for being our protector and guide over all. I would denounce any evil, claim my home for Jesus Christ and do so boldly! I wouldn't be afraid to discuss it with our priest for advice. I know he'd be happy to come bless our home, but after that I have no idea what protocal would be for a situation like this. I'll pray for your situation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 For those who have posted who do believe in spirits & suggest cleansings, exorcisms, etc.... Why is there an assumption that a spirit is bad or 'of the devil'? Are there benign spirits? Couldn't a good spirit give you a start/unease (just because it is unusual) rather than because it has sinister intentions? Wondering why there is an assumption that the supernatural force is 'bad'? Really curious of the beliefs about this based on the responses here.... I guess I'm thinking that if there could be 'bad' spirits, couldn't there be nice ones like 'Casper the Friendly Ghost' too? And, if so, why would one automatically assume that the encountered spirit is a bad one? Do you assume that about people you meet? Do you assume a person is bad until he or she proves otherwise? If you assume someone else is good initially, why do you or do you not apply that criteria to otherworldly beings? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 For those who have posted who do believe in spirits & suggest cleansings, exorcisms, etc.... Why is there an assumption that a spirit is bad or 'of the devil'? Are there benign spirits? Couldn't a good spirit give you a start/unease (just because it is unusual) rather than because it has sinister intentions? Wondering why there is an assumption that the supernatural force is 'bad'? Really curious of the beliefs about this based on the responses here.... I didn't say "my" ghostie girl was bad. Just a smart alec, I think! Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2Many4 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 For those who have posted who do believe in spirits & suggest cleansings, exorcisms, etc.... Why is there an assumption that a spirit is bad or 'of the devil'? Are there benign spirits? Couldn't a good spirit give you a start/unease (just because it is unusual) rather than because it has sinister intentions? Wondering why there is an assumption that the supernatural force is 'bad'? Really curious of the beliefs about this based on the responses here.... I guess I'm thinking that if there could be 'bad' spirits, couldn't there be nice ones like 'Casper the Friendly Ghost' too? And, if so, why would one automatically assume that the encountered spirit is a bad one? Do you assume that about people you meet? Do you assume a person is bad until he or she proves otherwise? If you assume someone else is good initially, why do you or do you not apply that criteria to otherworldly beings? :bigear: A dark shadow doesn't scream friendly ghost to me, that's why. Also, I encountered a benign spirit in my childhood. I felt no threat from her and new she meant no harm. She was just lonely. If it causes upset to you it's no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 For those who have posted who do believe in spirits & suggest cleansings, exorcisms, etc.... Why is there an assumption that a spirit is bad or 'of the devil'? Are there benign spirits? Couldn't a good spirit give you a start/unease (just because it is unusual) rather than because it has sinister intentions? Wondering why there is an assumption that the supernatural force is 'bad'? Really curious of the beliefs about this based on the responses here.... I guess I'm thinking that if there could be 'bad' spirits, couldn't there be nice ones like 'Casper the Friendly Ghost' too? And, if so, why would one automatically assume that the encountered spirit is a bad one? Do you assume that about people you meet? Do you assume a person is bad until he or she proves otherwise? If you assume someone else is good initially, why do you or do you not apply that criteria to otherworldly beings? :bigear: I think reading the New Testament of the Bible would provide a lot of answers here. If you read it, the spirits encountered are almost entirely either angels or fallen angels (which are demons, i.e. evil). At various times, God sent angels to tell people messages, but those kinds of encounters are completely different than what the OP described. Shadows and spirits associated with a woman coming to visit who has been dabbling into Satanic practices would be assumed to be evil. Again, I think it would be wise to read the Bible to get answers on this subject. I don't think that a lot of ideas about spirits or ghosts as presented in movies or in fiction books are accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Shadows and spirits associated with a woman coming to visit who has been dabbling into Satanic practices would be assumed to be evil. Oh no - she is the absolute antithesis of someone like that. She is very religious - I think Apostolic or Pentecostal (or maybe both over the years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linguistmama Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 For those who have posted who do believe in spirits & suggest cleansings, exorcisms, etc.... Why is there an assumption that a spirit is bad or 'of the devil'? Are there benign spirits? Couldn't a good spirit give you a start/unease (just because it is unusual) rather than because it has sinister intentions? Wondering why there is an assumption that the supernatural force is 'bad'? Really curious of the beliefs about this based on the responses here.... I guess I'm thinking that if there could be 'bad' spirits, couldn't there be nice ones like 'Casper the Friendly Ghost' too? And, if so, why would one automatically assume that the encountered spirit is a bad one? Do you assume that about people you meet? Do you assume a person is bad until he or she proves otherwise? If you assume someone else is good initially, why do you or do you not apply that criteria to otherworldly beings? :bigear: We believe in good spirits and angels as well. There is a completely different feeling with a good spirit versus one who would harm us. With the bad ones it was like they just oozed evil. It was very obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Oh no - she is the absolute antithesis of someone like that. She is very religious - I think Apostolic or Pentecostal (or maybe both over the years). Here is where I loathe to say that most people who are "religious" do not know Christ. Most think they're going to Heaven... but Christ Himself said no, they are not; He does not know them. YES one can certainly be very "religious" and have an evil friend (or a legion!) in and around her. If Christ is not filling the "house", then it's an "open house". Even assigning a denomination does not guarantee that the "religious" person has authentic faith in their heart. That kind of saving faith is personal, and no pastor/priest/culture/denomination/what-have-you can guarantee the state of that person's heart. I hope that makes sense. It's a rabbit trail, yes, but an essential rabbit trail because one cannot dismiss the wolf in sheep's clothing. Not calling her a wolf... it's the guise of righteousness found in all religion that is the wolf. If I've lost you, consider this: religion is man's (well meaning but foolish) attempt to reach God... Christianity is God reaching down to us, bridging the gap between Father and people, restoring a personal relationship that was lost when sin entered the world. Religion would have me do xyz to earn God's favour... but the bible says that all my good works are like rags. No, there is nothing I can do to earn His favour... that is why religion does not work; it's Satan's greatest strategy to lead "good" people astray. All that to say: "beware the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matt 16:6 :grouphug: Edited December 13, 2011 by specialmama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) We believe in good spirits and angels as well. There is a completely different feeling with a good spirit versus one who would harm us. With the bad ones it was like they just oozed evil. It was very obvious. :iagree: I agree. Many folks have entertained angels. ;) Discernment is a gift. Stacia, many times in Scripture people were "afraid" when angels approached them, but it was more of a "oh my gosh, is this really happening?" kind of fear, or trembling because they thought they were going to die. Sometimes it was a respect kind of fear. But I agree that it's often very obvious and instantaneous for those who have the gift of discernment. Then there are times where we are fooled by a wolf in sheep's clothing, but we learn and grow and remember that not all sheep are wolves in disguise. :001_smile: Edited December 13, 2011 by specialmama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Priests don't have "special" powers, but they are trained in the Latin Rite. Which is why they are the only ones that can do a successful exorcism. I have also heard of Protestants using the Catholic exorcism prayers and saying that the "new" English prayers were not as effective as the traditional ones in Latin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If it were me personally I'd call in an expert. I know in the RC chruch there are priests trained to handle situations like this. More than just the parish priest blessing the house. There is usually at least one per diocese depending on size. You don't want to do anything inadvertently to make the situation worse. Saying the wrong thing at the wrong time could do just that. If you are not comfortable with a Catholic priest, perhaps an Orthodox priest or a Shaman could be found. I know you said you are formerly Catholic, but I thought I'd pass along that St. Benedict is a good choice for intercession in these matters if you feel the need. Yes, a blessed St. Benedict's cross and holy water from a Catholic church, especially if that person is coming over tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 well most of the Christian's that have participated in this thread left after the snark started I am protestant and we believe that any born again Christian can "call-out" demonic spirits. This is not something done lightly it is done with great prayer and fasting. I don't know how the Catholic faith teaches but they may consider their church leaders the only one that can do this maybe you will get other Christian to chime in Every Catholic may give you a different answer, but as you said, "This is not something done lightly." Any believer in a right relationship with God could do it, but because of the danger, they may want an "expert." FWIW, not all Catholic priest are, but there are some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Oh no - she is the absolute antithesis of someone like that. She is very religious - I think Apostolic or Pentecostal (or maybe both over the years). She may be very religious and believe in Christ. She may have been in contact with a more troubled person and picked these up. It doesn't mean she's bad and certainly not possessed. The sister "medium" scares me, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I have never heard this before. I don't think Jesus is any less powerful in English. Dawn I have also heard of Protestants using the Catholic exorcism prayers and saying that the "new" English prayers were not as effective as the traditional ones in Latin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I have never heard this before. I don't think Jesus is any less powerful in English. Dawn I would agree that no word is more powerful in any language than the name of Jesus, spoken with faith. This came to me through someone who was involved in a protestant deliverance ministry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Here is where I loathe to say that most people who are "religious" do not know Christ. Most think they're going to Heaven... but Christ Himself said no, they are not; He does not know them. YES one can certainly be very "religious" and have an evil friend (or a legion!) in and around her. If Christ is not filling the "house", then it's an "open house". Even assigning a denomination does not guarantee that the "religious" person has authentic faith in their heart. That kind of saving faith is personal, and no pastor/priest/culture/denomination/what-have-you can guarantee the state of that person's heart. I hope that makes sense. It's a rabbit trail, yes, but an essential rabbit trail because one cannot dismiss the wolf in sheep's clothing. Not calling her a wolf... it's the guise of righteousness found in all religion that is the wolf. If I've lost you, consider this: religion is man's (well meaning but foolish) attempt to reach God... Christianity is God reaching down to us, bridging the gap between Father and people, restoring a personal relationship that was lost when sin entered the world. Religion would have me do xyz to earn God's favour... but the bible says that all my good works are like rags. No, there is nothing I can do to earn His favour... that is why religion does not work; it's Satan's greatest strategy to lead "good" people astray. All that to say: "beware the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matt 16:6 :grouphug: There are many many many people who would disagree with you about this. I know this is your opinion but it doesn't exactly read that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 There are many many many people who would disagree with you about this. I know this is your opinion but it doesn't exactly read that way. Oh I know many many many people would disagree about this... but they're not disagreeing with me, they're disagreeing about the truth that is in Scripture. The above is not my opinion, but found in the Word of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Oh I know many many many people would disagree about this... but they're not disagreeing with me, they're disagreeing about the truth that is in Scripture. The above is not my opinion, but found in the Word of God. It says in the Bible that religion does not work and it is Satan's greatest strategy to lead good people astray? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Here is where I loathe to say that most people who are "religious" do not know Christ. Most think they're going to Heaven... but Christ Himself said no, they are not; He does not know them. YES one can certainly be very "religious" and have an evil friend (or a legion!) in and around her. If Christ is not filling the "house", then it's an "open house". Even assigning a denomination does not guarantee that the "religious" person has authentic faith in their heart. That kind of saving faith is personal, and no pastor/priest/culture/denomination/what-have-you can guarantee the state of that person's heart. I hope that makes sense. It's a rabbit trail, yes, but an essential rabbit trail because one cannot dismiss the wolf in sheep's clothing. Not calling her a wolf... it's the guise of righteousness found in all religion that is the wolf. If I've lost you, consider this: religion is man's (well meaning but foolish) attempt to reach God... Christianity is God reaching down to us, bridging the gap between Father and people, restoring a personal relationship that was lost when sin entered the world. Religion would have me do xyz to earn God's favour... but the bible says that all my good works are like rags. No, there is nothing I can do to earn His favour... that is why religion does not work; it's Satan's greatest strategy to lead "good" people astray. All that to say: "beware the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matt 16:6 :grouphug: :iagree: This is exactly right according to the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) For those who have posted who do believe in spirits & suggest cleansings, exorcisms, etc.... Why is there an assumption that a spirit is bad or 'of the devil'? Are there benign spirits? Couldn't a good spirit give you a start/unease (just because it is unusual) rather than because it has sinister intentions? Wondering why there is an assumption that the supernatural force is 'bad'? Really curious of the beliefs about this based on the responses here.... I guess I'm thinking that if there could be 'bad' spirits, couldn't there be nice ones like 'Casper the Friendly Ghost' too? And, if so, why would one automatically assume that the encountered spirit is a bad one? Do you assume that about people you meet? Do you assume a person is bad until he or she proves otherwise? If you assume someone else is good initially, why do you or do you not apply that criteria to otherworldly beings? :bigear: Well, there's a difference between a spirit coming to you for help, and calling one up. You are never, ever, supposed to call *anything* up. Not to find out how Uncle Joe is doing, not to find out anything. BUT, sometimes they need help getting home and will appear to someone who can help and isn't afraid. If they come to you, if you see them, you can ask what they need to go home. Edited December 13, 2011 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Here is where I loathe to say that most people who are "religious" do not know Christ. Most think they're going to Heaven... but Christ Himself said no, they are not; He does not know them. YES one can certainly be very "religious" and have an evil friend (or a legion!) in and around her. If Christ is not filling the "house", then it's an "open house". Even assigning a denomination does not guarantee that the "religious" person has authentic faith in their heart. That kind of saving faith is personal, and no pastor/priest/culture/denomination/what-have-you can guarantee the state of that person's heart. I hope that makes sense. It's a rabbit trail, yes, but an essential rabbit trail because one cannot dismiss the wolf in sheep's clothing. Not calling her a wolf... it's the guise of righteousness found in all religion that is the wolf. If I've lost you, consider this: religion is man's (well meaning but foolish) attempt to reach God... Christianity is God reaching down to us, bridging the gap between Father and people, restoring a personal relationship that was lost when sin entered the world. Religion would have me do xyz to earn God's favour... but the bible says that all my good works are like rags. No, there is nothing I can do to earn His favour... that is why religion does not work; it's Satan's greatest strategy to lead "good" people astray. All that to say: "beware the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matt 16:6 :grouphug: Well - I certainly agree with you that that IS what the Bible says, but one must believe that the Bible is correct, that the devil and his dominion exist, etc., etc. Not much of a worry for people who have other beliefs, IYKWIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 There are many many many people who would disagree with you about this. I know this is your opinion but it doesn't exactly read that way. The first time I read it, I bristled. But then I remembered that I know a woman, (who is a dear, dear friend) whose parents were Pentecostal preachers during the day-and were truthfully Santanists. She, sadly, is suffering from a lifetime of emotional abuse and fled for her life as an adult. So yes, people do put on appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The first time I read it, I bristled. But then I remembered that I know a woman, (who is a dear, dear friend) whose parents were Pentecostal preachers during the day-and were truthfully Santanists. She, sadly, is suffering from a lifetime of emotional abuse and fled for her life as an adult. So yes, people do put on appearances. Are those people who split their devotion between Santa and Satan? Because that is confusing :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Are those people who split their devotion between Santa and Satan? Because that is confusing :D Bill Apparently, Santa has a Dark Side. ;) I never did trust those elves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Apparently, Santa has a Dark Side. ;) I never did trust those elves... The red-suit should have been a give away :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Are those people who split their devotion between Santa and Satan? Because that is confusing :D Bill Lol! That Santan. Him and his danged evil elves... Hey! I wanted to ask you if you knew the best way to warm up coffee so that it doesn't loose it's aroma? Or there just isn't a way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The red-suit should have been a give away :D Bill He's probably hiding his horns under the hat. ;) And I don't want to think about the tail, so let's not go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Lol! That Santan. Him and his danged evil elves... Hey! I wanted to ask you if you knew the best way to warm up coffee so that it doesn't loose it's aroma? Or there just isn't a way? Say, elves are small and move quickly. If it wasn't mice, perhaps it was an elf? Perfecty rational explanation given the season :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 All that to say: "beware the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matt 16:6 :grouphug: And some people would not agree with how you are interpreting that verse, relating it to "religion". Others might relate it to other things. If it's a verse that is against any and all religion, then I hope you no longer go to services, give tithes, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Say, elves are small and move quickly. If it wasn't mice, perhaps it was an elf? Perfecty rational explanation given the season :D Bill Coffee, Bill, coffee, focus for me here. I have a carafe of cold starbucks I'm loathe to pour out, and I'm too cold to drink it cold. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Coffee, Bill, coffee, focus for me here. I have a carafe of cold starbucks I'm loathe to pour out, and I'm too cold to drink it cold. :D In a super weird coincidence (or is it? :D) between my last post and reading this one I went and found some luke-warm coffee leftovers floating in the press-pot. While not optimal, I slugged down the remains in any case, figuring I was going to need them. Then this. How weird. Maybe the Internet is like one giant Ouija board? :tongue_smilie: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Are those people who split their devotion between Santa and Satan? Because that is confusing :D Bill :lol::lol: Ho, ho, ho, the sleigh from Hades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Are those people who split their devotion between Santa and Satan? Because that is confusing :D Bill :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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