Who has experience with...existential...stuff?

[JadeOrchidSong]

Spycar... knowledge you may have... wisdom you do not. Wisdom comes from God alone. You do not know of what you speak.

:iagree:

[Roadrunner]

Hmmmmm. I have a relative who claims to have been thrown out of the shower by an invisible force. The part that confuses me is that he is a scientist. Of course when the first time I was informed of the "incident" I had tears from laughter. However, when offered to spend a night in that house, I declined. :tongue_smilie:

[Susan in TN]

It says in the Bible that religion does not work and it is Satan's greatest strategy to lead good people astray?

 

:confused:

 

I think it depends on what you mean by "religion".

 

If you mean "the way a person goes about believing and expressing his/her faith in God", then the Bible has a lot to say about "how we should go about doing religion".

 

But some people use the word to mean "the way a person tries to earn their salvation through their actions"; then yes, the Bible does say religion in this sense doesn't work.

[mommaduck]

I think it depends on what you mean by "religion".

 

If you mean "the way a person goes about believing and expressing his/her faith in God", then the Bible has a lot to say about "how we should go about doing religion".

 

But some people use the word to mean "the way a person tries to earn their salvation through their actions"; then yes, the Bible does say religion in this sense doesn't work.

And this is where it gets even stickier. I know Baptists that claim Catholics are trying to "earn" heaven by candles, rosaries, etc. I know Reformed that will claim that Baptists try to "earn" heaven by saying a mystical prayer. I know people that believe the Reformed are trying to "earn" heaven by out-debating everyone else :lol: *said tongue in cheek on the last part...please remember, I've been Baptist and Reformed*

[mcconnellboys]

The description of the way the husband feels and the dog's reaction are what decide it for me....

[Bluegoat]

And this is where it gets even stickier. I know Baptists that claim Catholics are trying to "earn" heaven by candles, rosaries, etc. I know Reformed that will claim that Baptists try to "earn" heaven by saying a mystical prayer. I know people that believe the Reformed are trying to "earn" heaven by out-debating everyone else :lol: *said tongue in cheek on the last part...please remember, I've been Baptist and Reformed*

 

tee hee.

 

Maybe the fact of the matter is that thinking and doing aren't two different kinds of things after all.

 

But I guess I'm just not supposed to go there.

[LauraGB]

The description of the way the husband feels and the dog's reaction are what decide it for me....

 

Me too. And the rest of the story contributed to the convincing, as well as what I've heard here. But, for the most part, what you said. Thanks.

[Violet Crown]

I have never heard this before. I don't think Jesus is any less powerful in English.

 

I am so not getting involved in this thread's discussion, but regarding this little rabbit trail, I wanted to clarify for those unaware (or uninterested...) in Catholic inside baseball. People who have opinions about the effectiveness of exorcism prayers aren't claiming that the new prayers in English are less effective because they're in English, but because they're different in ways that some Catholics believe make them less effective.

 

The book of old forms of blessings (including exorcisms, which are/were often part of blessings) was the Rituale Romanum, and the new (post-Vatican 2) book is De Benedictionibus, or in English, Book of Blessings. The new blessings can always be said in Latin, but in fact they're always said in the local language.

 

I assume demons these days, as a result of the decline in classical education, are less likely to understand the Latin.

[Stacia]

I assume demons these days, as a result of the decline in classical education, are less likely to understand the Latin.

 

:D

[Spy Car]

 

I assume demons these days, as a result of the decline in classical education, are less likely to understand the Latin.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Bill

[LauraGB]

I am so not getting involved in this thread's discussion, but regarding this little rabbit trail, I wanted to clarify for those unaware (or uninterested...) in Catholic inside baseball. People who have opinions about the effectiveness of exorcism prayers aren't claiming that the new prayers in English are less effective because they're in English, but because they're different in ways that some Catholics believe make them less effective.

 

The book of old forms of blessings (including exorcisms, which are/were often part of blessings) was the Rituale Romanum, and the new (post-Vatican 2) book is De Benedictionibus, or in English, Book of Blessings. The new blessings can always be said in Latin, but in fact they're always said in the local language.

 

I assume demons these days, as a result of the decline in classical education, are less likely to understand the Latin.

 

Okay, your final line made me :lol:. But for the rest of it - are you suggesting I choose a priest based on his age? Choose one by interview...but ask what? I am honestly asking - I am the OP and regardless of what all the goofiness that is peppered throughout this thread may suggest, *I* am not taking this lightly. We have a priest in mind, combined with some things we plan to do on our own, but we don't know this fellow personally. Please PM me if you don't want to participate in the thread (I don't blame you one bit). Thank you.

[Paige]

Okay, your final line made me :lol:. But for the rest of it - are you suggesting I choose a priest based on his age? Choose one by interview...but ask what? I am honestly asking - I am the OP and regardless of what all the goofiness that is peppered throughout this thread may suggest, *I* am not taking this lightly. We have a priest in mind, combined with some things we plan to do on our own, but we don't know this fellow personally. Please PM me if you don't want to participate in the thread (I don't blame you one bit). Thank you.

 

I thought you would want a young priest and an old priest? :tongue_smilie:

[Spy Car]

I thought you would want a young priest and an old priest? :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol:

 

Like Father Merrin and Father Karras?

 

Bill

[LauraGB]

I thought you would want a young priest and an old priest? :tongue_smilie:

 

Ack, I didn't think of that! :rolleyes:.

 

But somehow, I don't think this is going to be the same as in the movies (and I had to look the reference up because I'm just not so savvy in the hollywood ways). Clever, though ;)

[Spy Car]

Ack, I didn't think of that! :rolleyes:.

 

But somehow, I don't think this is going to be the same as in the movies (and I had to look the reference up because I'm just not so savvy in the hollywood ways). Clever, though ;)

 

Don't look up "crucifix" and/or "split-pea soup" ;)

 

Bill

[LauraGB]

Don't look up "crucifix" and/or "split-pea soup" ;)

 

Bill

 

I have tried to watch that move three times over the past 25 years, and each time I have fallen asleep. But the pea soup bit I vividly remember - no need to look that one up; it's emblazoned in my memory. And it was thoroughly creepy. *Note to self - avoid the pea soup at all costs (at least a week in advance because I kind of like pea soup).

[mommaduck]

 

I assume demons these days, as a result of the decline in classical education, are less likely to understand the Latin.

You know you are reading The Well Trained Mind Forum when...:lol:

[Tiramisu]

Okay, your final line made me :lol:. But for the rest of it - are you suggesting I choose a priest based on his age? Choose one by interview...but ask what? I am honestly asking - I am the OP and regardless of what all the goofiness that is peppered throughout this thread may suggest, *I* am not taking this lightly. We have a priest in mind, combined with some things we plan to do on our own, but we don't know this fellow personally. Please PM me if you don't want to participate in the thread (I don't blame you one bit). Thank you.

 

I don't think age matters much. However, you may have more of a chance with someone very old or someone young. It's that baby-boomer generation that you *may* not find much help with. :001_smile:

[Tiramisu]

I am so not getting involved in this thread's discussion, but regarding this little rabbit trail, I wanted to clarify for those unaware (or uninterested...) in Catholic inside baseball. People who have opinions about the effectiveness of exorcism prayers aren't claiming that the new prayers in English are less effective because they're in English, but because they're different in ways that some Catholics believe make them less effective.

 

The book of old forms of blessings (including exorcisms, which are/were often part of blessings) was the Rituale Romanum, and the new (post-Vatican 2) book is De Benedictionibus, or in English, Book of Blessings. The new blessings can always be said in Latin, but in fact they're always said in the local language.

 

I assume demons these days, as a result of the decline in classical education, are less likely to understand the Latin.

 

:iagree:

If you were to look at the Missal that has been in use since 1962? until the start of Advent this year and any Missal prior to 1962, you would see not just a difference in language--because you will find English in both--but a huge difference in wording. In comparision, the newer wording makes God seem less almighty and somehow less worthy of our worship. That was one thing that struck me when I first attended the Latin Mass and made me want to come back, how much greater God seemed in the English translation in the Missal and how the words of praise seemed more appropriate to that greatness.

 

As Sharon said, the older prayers include prayers of exorcisms. In the old form of baptism, three prayers of exorcism are said. When I had one child receive "last rites" prior to major surgery, there were more prayers of exorcism there, too.

 

FWIW, I don't consider myself a traditionalist and have no problem with a reverent Mass in the new form, but I do prefer the traditional rites of the sacraments.

 

Also, I have had my house blessed in the traditional form, in Latin. It was blessed years previously, but I decided to do it again in the traditional way, especially because of the prayers of exorcism. We never had any incidents like Laura, though.

[Violet Crown]

Okay, your final line made me :lol:. But for the rest of it - are you suggesting I choose a priest based on his age? Choose one by interview...but ask what? I am honestly asking - I am the OP and regardless of what all the goofiness that is peppered throughout this thread may suggest, *I* am not taking this lightly. We have a priest in mind, combined with some things we plan to do on our own, but we don't know this fellow personally. Please PM me if you don't want to participate in the thread (I don't blame you one bit). Thank you.

I'd just ask if he would mind using the Rituale Romanum instead of the Book of Blessings. A younger priest might be willing to do it; an older priest would probably give you a lecture on abjuring your traddy ways. But there's no harm in asking.

 

If you're in the kind of diocese where the question will give people conniptions, you can see if the FSSP (traditionalist priests) could send someone.

[MBM]

I thought you would want a young priest and an old priest? :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol:

 

Like Father Merrin and Father Karras?

 

Bill

Older and younger? Father Ted and Father Dougal would fit the bill. They could just wheel Father Jack in and that would scare the bejeebers out of any spirit.

 

:D

[MBM]

My mom's always asking why we don't have cable tv, because we're missing such classics as Ancient Aliens, Ghost Hunters, and Search For Bigfoot. Now I can tell her there's no need, I can read about one here for free!

I don't believe it's real. It's weird how you can suspect something, then everything that happens afterwards gets adjusted in a way to fit the original idea...you know, my dog refuses to go in the basement, and he is terrified of the water hose. He's not too fond of black cats, either. Should I have him cleaned?? Wait...my son really hesitates to go near the sink after a meal's been eaten.....now I'm worried.

 

I hope it gets straightened out, though, Laura, to everyone's satisfaction.

 

ETA: Do you have to pay the priest to cleanse the place?

 

My son fears tomatoes. Hmmm... (just kidding here!)

 

This is how we paid the priest. Offered a tip. He politely declined. We insisted. He shrugged and graciously accepted it. That's how it worked for us when we got our house blessed. :) I don't think you are required to pay, but we were not attempting to get rid of bad spirits. Could be dfferent.

[annandatje]

...Maybe the Internet is like one giant Ouija board? :tongue_smilie:Bill

 

I never knew that people considered a Ouija board was anything more than a silly fad.

 

Once in my life at a slumber party, a group of girls pulled out Ouija board and explained how to use it. I was perplexed because it was painfully obvious that a planchette could not move of its own accord. Was I supposed to pretend that I thought the girls were only "guiding" the planchette? There was overt hostility toward my suggestion to keep hands off board to test whether planchette could move across board. All in all, it appeared to be an awkward and rather unrealistic method of communication.

 

Just another one of those weird moments in life where I felt totally out of the loop.