Does it surprise you that 1 in 4 American women are on anti-depressants?

[justamouse]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I know two people that were heavy users in the past who both are on ADs and they would tell you it isn't anywhere the same!;)

 

Actually, I think the illegal drug argument is more of an argument FOR using anti-depressants. Many people drink or do drugs as a way of self-medicating for a condition that could be treated better and less self-destructively with prescription anti-depressants.

 

Wanting to commit suicide as a withdrawl symptom is serious. The withdrawl symptoms were the same. IE Zoloft.

 

Self medicating is alleviating a symptom, not treating a cause. And 'less self destructively' is in the eye of the beholder.

[zaichiki]

So, its seems to me that the system is more broken than anything. I think that MD's are trying to diagnose mental health issues that they have no business diagnosing.

 

 

Many of them are taking a medicine so that they can get out of bed and be the mother, wife and daughter they need to be.

 

You have to be present, and in the moment. You have to be there.

 

Im just suggesting that some of you think a bit more about what you are actually suggesting. I realize that its difficult to see drug abuse in our society, but I really do think you are looking at the exception, not the norm.

 

 

1. I think you're right: there are MDs diagnosing mental illnesses. There are also those not even bothering with a diagnosis. A family member was prescribed anti-depressants during a time of stress. It was stress. And completely understandable. But pills (with side effects listed that were worse than his symptoms) were NOT what he needed.

2. It's wonderful that there are those that are so aided by their medications that they can get out of bed, be the mother they need to be, and be present. I wish it worked that way all the time. I have/had family members who were medicated, but still had regular episodes. Medication didn't "fix" anything. And the medications were changed so many times... it's amazing. Ester Maria's use of the word "experiment" totally hit home for me.

3. How does one know if their experience is the exception or the norm?

 

[zaichiki]

I just want to point out that in many cases, the doctor CAN'T wait to see if the therapy works first. If a woman comes in with post-partum psychosis, for example, and is a danger to herself or her children, the doctor can't just recommend a good therapist and see what happens. Therapy can take years to have a noticeable effect. When I had severe PPD, I was at the point of hallucinations. I drove to the ER and got medication right there. If the doctors had given me a list of therapists and sent me home, I might not be here today.

 

Holy Cow, Mergath, I'm sorry, but if someone is a danger to herself and her children RIGHT NOW, she doesn't need a scrip for medication. She needs to be brought to a safe place where the doctors and nurses can oversee the medication... where they can follow steps, do some testing, and spend more time figuring out what the problem is.

[kalanamak]

T there wasn't a test for diabetes,

 

We don't have a test for Alzheimer's, but it clearly exists.

 

Brain biopsy or autopsy.

 

And docs were called piss-tasters because sweet urine was described long ago.

[Perry]

Brain biopsy or autopsy.

 

Yeah, those brain biopsies are done so often. :lol:

 

Okay, we don't have a useful test.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Perry

[enviromommy]

Wanting to commit suicide as a withdrawl symptom is serious. The withdrawl symptoms were the same. IE Zoloft.

 

Self medicating is alleviating a symptom, not treating a cause. And 'less self destructively' is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I totally understand about withdrawal symptoms. I had a doozy of a time withdrawing from Zoloft, which is why I hesitate to go back on. But that doesn't mean the drug is worthless or should never be prescribed.

 

"Less self-destructively" is not entirely in the eye of the beholder. Cocaine, alcohol and many other drugs can lead to complete ruin, emotional, physical, familial, financial. I have yet to see anyone have that happen because he or she was taking Zoloft.

[enviromommy]

But much of medicine is like this.

 

There are many conditions that are treated symptomatically and depending on self report. Migraines. Reflux. Pain. Angina. If symptoms get better with treatment, then you're on the right track, and don't necessarily need any other tests. Treating mental illness is no different. If the treatment relieves the symptoms, that's still science.

 

:iagree: Exactly. Science is empirical. Trying a medicine to see if it works is science whether we know the mechanism of the disease or not. If we waited until we thoroughly understood all diseases before prescribing medicines we would have hardly any medicines.

 

How about plain old aspirin? People noticed that certain tree barks helped to relieve pain before they had any idea whatsoever why.

[pdalley]

Just for the record...I want to add that there are plenty of doctors (psychiatrist) that do NOT write out prescriptions without extensive therapy sessions.

 

I think what appears to be the biggest problem that some have with the topic of women and medication is that it is too readily available? I had a general MD explain to me that she was learning how to treat mental health patients b/c patients could not afford, or did not have insurance for psychiatric therapy. It was extremely expensive. So, she said that a lot of ppl were coming to her and getting their medicines b/c they couldn't afford other options. So, its seems to me that the system is more broken than anything. I think that MD's are trying to diagnose mental health issues that they have no business diagnosing. And, therefore, they are guessing as to the medications for treatment. I do believe psychiatry is a science. I believe it has taught us much about human behaviors. And, I guess I could go so far as to add that a scientific study, or data of any kind, doesn't make me feel any more valid or comfortable with treating illness. I am a devout skeptic when it comes to most anything that comes from the scientific community. You can't simply go to any doctor and trust that the info you are getting is correct. You have to research and take control of your own health.

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there seems to be just waaaay too much scrutiny over this particular health issue. You could take just about anything that has been said on this thread and apply it toward any illness.

 

Also, there seems to be a lot of ppl that have strong opinions based on negative experiences. I understand that too. I just think that you should guard your harsh judgments and criticisms and keep them in line with your experience. You might also consider that if you had taken different steps you quite possibly could have avoided your experience all together.

 

Lastly, I am just amazed at the condescending tone many of these posts share. It seems that there are several on this board that really, truly think that the women on these medicines do not have the intellect to actually make this decision for themselves. I find that extremely offensive. I cant imagine taking anything more serious than the treatment of mental health! I will agree that it's definitely not a 'one size fits all' science, but that doesn't exist for anyone.

 

Ok, I'm done. I don't want to offend. I just want to clarify what I feel is being miscommunicated. It breaks my heart that many people just simply do not understand the complications of mental health. That even though there are those out there that say if you need meeds, by all means take them, just don't quite understand the gravity of what they are saying. So many ppl would be incapable of functioning if they didn't have medicine to help them cope. Think about what i just said... COPE. These women are not walking around doped up and feeling happy about life. Many of them are taking a medicine so that they can get out of bed and be the mother, wife and daughter they need to be.

 

Just think about that...think about if you couldn't get out of bed tomorrow because you were mentally ill. You absolutely. could. not. get up and 'do your life'. Can you imagine? Most women have this hit them after they become a mother. How devastating for them! You cant just say.."oops, made a mistake. I shouldn't have had kids..I can't handle it" No, you have to make the best decision that you can for the situation that you are in. You have to be present, and in the moment. You have to be there.

 

Im just suggesting that some of you think a bit more about what you are actually suggesting. I realize that its difficult to see drug abuse in our society, but I really do think you are looking at the exception, not the norm.

:iagree:

 

I cannot express my amazement at the tone I'm getting off of some of these posts. I've had bad reactions to anti depressants. Medicine isn't an exact science because all medications affect people in different ways. But I am not going to go around screaming for all of them to be banned because I had a bad reaction. Heck, I'm allergic to all antibiotics but two. I guess they must be dangerous huh? No, they are dangerous for me. Period.

 

I know what works for me and mine. I know our issues are real. I know what has and hasn't helped and I won't hesitate to seek out help. I quite frankly only give a rip that people don't consider mental illness real because it will discourage some from seeking treatment and that leads to a whole host of other problems.

[Ester Maria]

It came across to me more as if she's saying that psychiatry, and especially psychology, are a crock. I may be more sensitive, however, as I fully believe that the field and its practitioners quite literally saved the lives of both myself and my husband.

:grouphug:

 

I guess we all come with our biases from experience.

 

I was anorexic, and it was definitely not a psychologist who helped me either to get over a delusion that is a part of the problem (in terms of self-perception), either to make concrete steps to heal.

I was depressed, what helped were nutritional considerations, forced socialization (as in, being literally pulled out of bed by my awesome friends to take me out - HATED it, but in hindsight, they were instinctly doing the right thing), a stay abroad (my mother's "change of climate" theory, according to which the change of climate and surroundings is very helpful in such situations) and a temporary break off scholastic duties, and then a slow going back into routine after the acute crisis was over, overseen by well-meaning people who held me during my panic attacks in which I was sure I was dying and who stayed with me for extended periods of time in my apartment to keep an eye on me. I managed to get over a disintegration of whatever sense of the world and myself I had, and a period of mental chaos, without chemistry. Would it be a good thing to suggest to everybody? Heck no, but there certainly are many people who are medicated for such cases and do not technically need it (as we can see on my example - treatable otherwise). My parents, cynical as they were, labeled it "growing up". Only in hindsight did I truly get that what the oppressing fog I was stuck inside for all that time had its clinical name. I am extremely glad I managed to walk out of it without 'experimenting', because while it might have helped, it also might have exacerbated things or it might have crippled me in sense of making me dependent on the substances given.

 

My daughter was "ADDing" and it was not a mental health professional that helped. It was a team of biochemists who made a very careful analysis of her diet and other relevant factors in her life, experimenting with it over extended periods of time, until they hit the right combination for her and isolated all the food triggers which masked as a neurological illness, but were in fact a body reaction thing. Would it be a magical bullet for every kid showing her symptoms? Not at all. Is it a potential solution for many kids who still get medicated before somebody seriously considers a less invasive, lifestyle changing approach? I believe so.

 

In our case, and the cases of many other people whom I have spoken to and who told me that they healed in spite of the meds they were given, not because of them, such an approach truly was more of a hindrance, and a desire to quick jump to a solution, than a help.

 

I have also noticed great "geographical" differences in psychoactive drugs prescriptions. From my experience to the extent to which I could observe it, the rest of the world does not have that percentage of population being medicated as in the US. It was in fact one of the things that were the most starking for me in terms of a cultural shock, such a mainstreaming of issues I was used to thinking were marginal issues. Part of it has probably to do with the lower taboo factor and greater visibility of people with problems (which is good), but it still cannot explain all of that difference. Like I said earlier, it is almost like vitamins - the general impression is as though every household has something. This is really not the case with the other nations I have lived amongst - of course, you may never know with precision what goes on behind somebody's close door, and it may be that some things are just getting more swept under the rug, but I still think there is a difference in the "velocity" of prescription. This is true even when it comes to classification of personality disorders with psychologists - for example, I know a psychologist who claims that BPD cannot be diagnosed at ages at which her American colleagues do diagnose it and she is very irritated with that.

 

So, these are some of my biases.

 

Perry, I love the picture. :lol: Similar to that, DH told me once something along these lines: "Chemists despise biologists because biology is merely watered down chemistry, physicists despise chemists because chemistry is basically applied physics, and mathematicians despise everybody. Biologists wish they were chemists, chemists wish they were physicists, physicists think they are gods, and God wishes he was a mathematician." Or something like that, I forgot what it was exactly. :tongue_smilie:

[Joker]

Ester, my family couldn't have pulled me out of bed to go out with friends. I wouldn't even get out of bed for my own kids. I needed serious help and my therapist was able to give it to me. It required meds and I was on them for almost a year. I was able to function enough while on them to get out of bed each day which meant I could get to therapy several times a week. After a while, I started to finally feel a sense or normalcy again.

 

It wasn't diet, exercise, or friends that helped me. It was talking to someone who knew how to listen and what to listen for. He knew when to push and when to back off and he knew what questions to ask. My psychologist, and the meds he put me on, are the reason I came back to my family.

[Ester Maria]

Ester, my family couldn't have pulled me out of bed to go out with friends.

They were violent. I would not have got up otherwise. They physically pulled me out, in the most literal sense of the word. At my worst, I did not have a will power, or so it felt, it was a brute physical force that worked. Just saying so that you do not imagine it as some kind of a friendly nagging - far from it. It was horrible.

[Joanne]

Ester, my family couldn't have pulled me out of bed to go out with friends. I wouldn't even get out of bed for my own kids. I needed serious help and my therapist was able to give it to me. It required meds and I was on them for almost a year. I was able to function enough while on them to get out of bed each day which meant I could get to therapy several times a week. After a while, I started to finally feel a sense or normalcy again.

 

It wasn't diet, exercise, or friends that helped me. It was talking to someone who knew how to listen and what to listen for. He knew when to push and when to back off and he knew what questions to ask. My psychologist, and the meds he put me on, are the reason I came back to my family.

 

But that's not science. There was no physical test.

 

By the criteria offered upthread, my dd's disease doesn't count, my nursing home patient's issues weren't valid, and aspergers doesn't exist. For that matter, the trauma my teens faced wasn't PROVEN to have changed their brain or limbic system.

 

The last few pages of this thread read as if some posters don't know psychiatrists ARE MD's and spoke on both sides of the issue; it must be science by their standards, using medical science but doctors over prescribe.

 

While I am at it no one comment on my early observation that the numbers were baseed on INSURED Americans. That changes things.

 

Whatever; I am just flabberagsted at the elusive criteria for science, and the biased application.

[pdalley]

But that's not science. There was no physical test.

 

By the criteria offered upthread, my dd's disease doesn't count, my nursing home patient's issues weren't valid, and aspergers doesn't exist. For that matter, the trauma my teens faced wasn't PROVEN to have changed their brain or limbic system.

 

The last few pages of this thread read as if some posters don't know psychiatrists ARE MD's and spoke on both sides of the issue; it must be science by their standards, using medical science but doctors over prescribe.

 

While I am at it no one comment on my early observation that the numbers were baseed on INSURED Americans. That changes things.

 

Whatever; I am just flabberagsted at the elusive criteria for science, and the biased application.

 

I agree.

 

I know a MD such as this. Can't wait to tell him about this thread when I see him today. He's going to be floored. All of his life's work based on junk science?

 

It amazes me that people take their experience with a problem and apply it to every single person on the planet. Doesn't work that way. Different people need different things. Different things work for different people. Anti depressants work for a lot of people for a lot of different conditions. They aren't sugar pills. They help a lot of people. Like anything else they can cause bad side affects. Like anything else they can be over prescribed. But to throw out mental illness because it doesn't meet some random definition of science is over the top IMO.

 

I'm glad I live in a time where myself and my sons can use medicines that can make our lives easier. Even if our diseases can't be 'proven' to some people. Fine. You don't live with them. We do.

[Rosie_0801]

Perhaps this is another example of a cultural difference between Ester Maria and the rest of us.

 

In Italy, apparently, it is socially acceptable or at least not unacceptable to haul a person out of her bed, dress her and get her out of the house as often as is required.

 

In America and Australia, that would be completely unacceptable behavior other than the one time it took to drag the person to a doctor's office for some pills. That would be applauded by concerned friends and relatives. Anything else would be condemned. We are not allowed to be so "mean."

 

Now to drag an unwilling person out of her bed, one would need a posse of willing workers. In our culture, it'd be almost impossible to collect one. 1. It's mean. 2. People have enough trouble dealing with their own lives. 3. One's closest friends and family probably don't even live nearby and most and who is to say they even know each other? 4. No one knows it is the right thing to do and could form part of a cure anyway because there isn't an expert handy who can tell us. Would the expert know? Or would s/he be in the same boat as the rest of us and have to wait and see? Besides because it is mean, we mightn't listen to such a nasty doctor anyway.

 

Even if a condition could be "better" (more safely, more effectively) treated in non-chemical ways, the pills are still the most socially acceptable course of action. They can be taken independently so no one else has to be involved.

 

This musing woke me up this morning so I figured I might as well toss it out there.

 

Rosie

[Joanne]

Perhaps this is another example of a cultural difference between Ester Maria and the rest of us.

 

In Italy, apparently, it is socially acceptable or at least not unacceptable to haul a person out of her bed, dress her and get her out of the house as often as is required.

 

 

Culture makes a huge difference in many areas, including pathology (medical or mental).

[Audrey]

You might want to reconsider how harshly you denigrate the woman who are on these. I was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and it had gotten to the point that I couldn't function without medication. The standard treatment is anti-depressants, and has made a huge difference for me. I have a very healthy diet, and dd and I walk everywhere. When you have an actual mental health condition, eating some vegetables and going for a run isn't going to cure you. OCD doesn't magically get better after a year or two.

 

It's also this stigma that keeps so many women from seeking treatment for PPD and PPP. New mothers read things like your post, and think it would be somehow weak or shameful to seek medical treatment, and that endangers both the mother and her children.

 

I suppose it makes people feel better to sit around and judge something you have no experience with, but you might want to think about the people you're judging so harshly, as well.

 

 

:iagree: with you, Mergath, and the other posters who actually know what it's like to need NSAIDs. They really do work if you really do need them. That said, I do believe they are overprescribed to women, and I believe it is because women's health concerns are still being routinely, archaically dismissed as "all in their heads." That's a real shame on the medical community AFAIC.

 

It's really a vicious cycle. On the one hand, you have truly useful medications for people who need them. On the other hand, you have the misuse/overuse of those medications.

 

I think America is a very drug-heavy culture. The ads in American magazines are astounding -- filled with pages and pages of drugs ads, most cleverly placed. It's the same whenever I watch American TV channels. Drug ads galore!! Women's magazines, in particular, are laden with ads for psychopharmaceuticals.

 

Americans are a huge market, and they love a quick fix. It's prime picking for the drug companies. There are plenty of women (and men) who will ask for drugs just because the ads convinced them they might need it, or that they want it. Doctors will prescribe if the patient presents a good enough case. The ads practically write your speech for you -- are you anxious in public? Do you ever feel panicked... etc. etc.? Just repeat the ad to your doc and he'll give you your fix.

[UnsinkableKristen]

Perhaps this is another example of a cultural difference between Ester Maria and the rest of us.

 

In Italy, apparently, it is socially acceptable or at least not unacceptable to haul a person out of her bed, dress her and get her out of the house as often as is required.

 

In America and Australia, that would be completely unacceptable behavior other than the one time it took to drag the person to a doctor's office for some pills. That would be applauded by concerned friends and relatives. Anything else would be condemned. We are not allowed to be so "mean."

 

Now to drag an unwilling person out of her bed, one would need a posse of willing workers. In our culture, it'd be almost impossible to collect one. 1. It's mean. 2. People have enough trouble dealing with their own lives. 3. One's closest friends and family probably don't even live nearby and most and who is to say they even know each other? 4. No one knows it is the right thing to do and could form part of a cure anyway because there isn't an expert handy who can tell us. Would the expert know? Or would s/he be in the same boat as the rest of us and have to wait and see? Besides because it is mean, we mightn't listen to such a nasty doctor anyway.

 

Even if a condition could be "better" (more safely, more effectively) treated in non-chemical ways, the pills are still the most socially acceptable course of action. They can be taken independently so no one else has to be involved.

 

This musing woke me up this morning so I figured I might as well toss it out there.

 

Rosie

 

 

As usual, Rosie, I think you are spot on.

[TravelingChris]

Even if you don't think you need medications for a certain disease, why would you think that depression isn't a disease? SO we haven't found the marker yet. I don't really care. It is quite obvious that others when someone is suffering from Major Depression. It would be obvious to any normal person who had some life experiences and knows anything about Major Depression. Oh, and Ester Maria, what really may very well have helped you rather than the trip and other so -called cures is that for most sufferers, Major Depression is cyclical. They will have it for a while, then revert back to normal and then at some later point, go back to Major Depression. You may think it is just stress related but I know that my son got episodes twice in college. Once, he did have more stress from other issues. The second time, he had no real stress at all. But anyway, he is a male and not even on AD at this time. But the doctors did lots of tests on him -to rule out other causes of depression.

 

Oh, and the way that aspirin actually stops pain hasn't been discovered even though we know it does. Medicine and that includes psychiatry is a science but not a hard science. THere is a reason the places where doctors work are called Medical Practices. I think that God has been helping us humans because many of the diseases and conditions we have now have had medications and treatments way before we had any means of discovering markers, DNA patterns, etc. that signify the disease.

 

As many posters have informed you, Ester Maria, many physical ailments are still being treated without a specific test showing yes you do have or no you don't have the disease. In many cases, you need to treat the condition even without the markers. For example, I have thrombiphilia which means that my blood clots too easily. There are many conditions and factors which can cause this. It is a life threatening condition. They happened to have found a factor in my blood that explains the thrombophilia. In 50% of the patients, they don't find a marker or factor. If those patients have repeated clots or clots without a particularly significant pre-cursor (pregnancy, surgery,etc), they will be put on Coumadin or another preventative drug. These drugs are dangerous but having thrombophilia is dangerous too. Well Major Depression is even more dangerous that thrombophilia and the drugs used to treat it are less dangerous than Coumadin. So while I can agree with you Ester Maria, that feeling a bit down over a situation should not probably lead to anti-depressant use, Major depression is not the same thing and definitely should lead to treatment whether AD, or EC, or other newer treatments. Because Major Depression has a death rate similar to some cancers like Melanoma and no reasonable person would recommend that a Melanoma patient not get treatment.

[kalanamak]

Even if you don't think you need medications for a certain disease, why would you think that depression isn't a disease? SO we haven't found the marker yet. I don't really care. It is quite obvious that others when someone is suffering from Major Depression.

 

Many, many years ago, before I had any experience with mental illness (and had grown up in a world without alcoholics, shut in mothers, panic attacks, abuse, etc), I "shadowed" my doctor brother to see if it was something I wanted to do. It was rather small town Kansas, and I'd enter the room with him. Over and over he was greeted warmly, and there was the standard, drawling chat one has for the first two minutes in Kansas. It is a lovely habit, and one I was completely familiar with. Nothing like a farmer who may not see a anyone but family and his dogs all day to have a good joke* and a comment on the tree that blew down last night.

 

Well, about once a day we'd walk into the room and the person would not look up, or would answer tensely and tersely. I'd never seen this in my life but it was CLEAR as day they were miserable and probably chronically so. It wasn't a "bad moment" of upset, but a kleenex-shredding hour by hour suffering. The topic was never blood pressure or arthritis, but weeping and insomnia and shouting at the husband and unable to cook dinner. It was heartbreaking because they just oozed helpless, fearful, perplexing unhappiness. And docs see the worst of it, because people put on their best face in public for fear of appearing as different as they felt.

 

My brother told me he had a certain section of his practice that came a couple of times a month to cry and get a kind word. (This was before prozac was invented.) A few were on meds, but many weren't, rural Kansas being what it was, and the "dirty" tricyclics being what they are. One didn't need a scan or a blood test. As they say in medicine: listen to the patient, and he will tell you the diagnosis.

 

*A pastor wanted to find out what his boy would grow up to be, so he snuck into his room and laid a Bible, a silver dollar, and a bottle of liquor on his desk, and then hid in the closet. "If he picks up the Bible, he'll be a pastor like me -- praise the Lord. If he picks up the dollar, he'll be a business man, and that is okay; but if he picks up the gin, he'll be a drunk and that would be a sin and a shame.

 

The boy strolls in after high school, surveys the desk, puts the dollar in his pocket, sticks the Bible under his arm, and takes a swing of the booze. "Lord help us," his dad whispers, "He's going to be a politician."

[YLVD]

But the fact that one can't diagnose OCD or bipolar disorder with the same methods or degree of certainty as, say, cancer or diabetes doesn't negate the fact that those suffering still require treatment. Just because a doctor can't draw some blood and run a test to tell me what I have doesn't mean I'm not mentally ill. Mental illness *can* be accurately diagnosed. It simply requires a professional who knows what the heck they're talking about to do a little more work than a blood draw or an x-ray over a longer period of time.

 

And yes, in an ideal world, only a very small percentage of the population should be prescribed these kinds of medication. But we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a world full of environmental toxins doing god-knows-what to our bodies and minds. If more and more of us are growing up to discover that we have chemical imbalances that cause some degree of mental illness, really, we shouldn't be so surprised. When generations upon generations are poisoned, of course there are going to be effects. The high degree of mental illness is almost certainly one of them.

 

Also, comparing SSRIs to cocaine is a little harsh. There are serious side effects, but that's true with almost any medication.

 

:iagree:

Exactly! I have bipolar disorder. I've been diagnosed and have had a few different doctors all weigh in on it. So, because they can't measure it exactly, I should just suffer throughout life and likely kill myself? That is the kind of ridiculous thing that people say when they have no clue what actual mental illness is like.

[YLVD]

It's different for everyone, but, it's still numbing.

 

I am NOT saying that there aren't people that need them-at all. But they are way over prescribed and thrown around like candy.

 

It isn't numbing, honestly. What can be numbing is mood stabilizers. I have plenty of experience with both.

[YLVD]

I was never given a medicine without a test.

 

A niece has migraines problems, when it turned out NOT to be a situational thing, they sent her for brain scans and brain activity tests to figure out that something is odd in the wave frequency. Definitely not treated in any way before that.

When I had joint pain, the first thing they did was a scan, the second thing they did was a thorough blood/urine test, the third thing they did was a check of the bone regularity with a specialist (i.e. whether it is due to possible scoliosis of a kind or something), and the fourth thing was an experintal testing whether the pain is position-based. Nobody prescribed me anything meanwhile, and even if the final diagnosis was a result of elimination (similar to what Joanne said earlier), NOBODY even toyed with the idea of prescribing me anything after a chat about what are my issues, without any kind of testing involved. :confused:

 

The equivalent in mental health would pretty much be: step 1, a thorough check up whether the problem is nutritional and lifestyle-based; step 2, may it be a situational thing and not a continuous pattern?; step 3, even if it is a continuous pattern, can it be dealt with without medication; step 4, a discussion about risks and benefits of medication; step 5, medication. Many people would not even get to step 5 because the problem would be solved on levels 1-3, but many psychiatrists will prescribe something right away and THAT is what I rave against here.

 

In my experience with being diagnosed with a mental illness, we went through all of those steps and I even went through them with another doctor to make sure.

[YLVD]

Ester Maria,

 

You do not value, and perhaps do not understand mental health diagnosis and professionals. Several people have offered you, from "medical science" exceptions to your claim, but you don't address them.

 

I would call a lot of mental health diagnosis comparable, but, based on your seemingly arbitrary standard, you would not agree.

 

Mental health practitioners, based on researched and standardized criteria, diagnose:

 

Mental retardation

Spectrum disorders

Eating disorders

Addiction

Schizophrenia

Personality disorders

Learning disorders

 

And a bunch of other types of things.

 

Your posts on the topic are truly under-informed, even dangerous.

:iagree:

[YLVD]

No one is saying we shouldn't attempt to treat mental illness.

If I read Ester Maria correctly, she's saying there should be more steps before the doctors jump to medication.

In my family's experience, there are doctors who jump.

More family experiences -- they're experimenting: they don't really know what the h*ll they're doing. (Sorry. Emotion.)

 

Yes, those are some people. I can counter with many other people that never had that experience. I certainly never did, with all of the issues that I've had over the years. My docs have almost always recommended lifestyle changes, etc, done measurable tests.

 

Honestly, I think that a lot of you don't have a clue what goes on. That may sound rude but from the comments I'm seeing, that is the case.

[Rosie_0801]

:iagree:

Exactly! I have bipolar disorder. I've been diagnosed and have had a few different doctors all weigh in on it. So, because they can't measure it exactly, I should just suffer throughout life and likely kill myself? That is the kind of ridiculous thing that people say when they have no clue what actual mental illness is like.

 

Nobody on this thread has said that. People have said that others have said that.

 

Rosie

Edited December 9, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[shanvan]

No one is saying we shouldn't attempt to treat mental illness.

If I read Ester Maria correctly, she's saying there should be more steps before the doctors jump to medication.

In my family's experience, there are doctors who jump.

More family experiences -- they're experimenting: they don't really know what the h*ll they're doing. (Sorry. Emotion.)

 

:iagree:And I think many people are taking a lot of this discussion too personally (though it is a very real personal issue for most of us). Ester Maria's points as I read them show that there is a potential for doctors to misdiagnose mental illnesses b/c of the fact that diagnoses are made by symptoms and so many mental illnesses overlap with their symptoms. And the same can be said about physical illnesses like Lupus, MS, Sjorgren's, fibromyalgia, etc. In all of these cases your diagnoses is going to depend heavily on the doctor's interpretations of what you tell them and the the doctor's own personal experiences and biases.

 

I had personal experience with a doctor who walked into the exam room with the idea that I was depressed. I don't know why, maybe he thought all women with pain are really depressed. No matter what I said, he took it the wrong way. For example in one discussion I told him I was a baker (meaning I like to bake, it's one of my 'things' and I do it well). He assumed I did it for a living and when he found out I only did it as a hobby he decided I was having delusions of grandeur. That led him to consider that maybe I have bipolar and not just depression. Coupled with the side effects of the AD he was prescribing he was building a good case. At one point he even had me thinking maybe he's right after all I'm having all these weird thoughts (b/c of the AD).

 

I've also been the advocate for two family members who were almost misdiagnosed and would have been if I had not been present constantly and arguing with the doctors. In one case my relative was bipolar and had a long history. The doctors were considering a completely different diagnoses for her. Accordingly they were insisting on meds I knew would not work for her.

 

I know from reading this thread (and experience with my mom) that there are many people who respond well to ADs and do truly need them. I don't really think most people here are saying no one should ever take them. It is not a failing to find a reasonable diagnoses and accept treatment that works for you. I fyou are in that position and have found good doctors who have arrived at reasonable conclusions about your condition and good treatments, be thankful.

 

The point (as I see it) of all these posts is that given the lack of clear cause and effect testing there is great potential for misdiagnoses and unnecessary, ineffective, and even harmful medication. Because you are being treated for a mental illness and taking a medication that works for you does not mean that this is happening to you. It also does not mean that it isn't happening to others. And, once you have a diagnoses from one doctor (even if it is wrong) it is not always easy to convince another doctor that the diagnoses isn't correct. If we are talking about mental illness, the patient may be even struggling with what is really happening to them to the point that he or she cannot give accurate information to a doctor.

 

The book Under the Medical Gaze: Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain (see link below) offers a very interesting perspective on how ADs can harm a person's health and how doctors do jump to these prescriptions (and wrong diagnoses).

 

"This compelling account of the author's experience with a chronic pain disorder and subsequent interaction with the American health care system goes to the heart of the workings of power and culture in the biomedical domain. It is a medical whodunit full of mysterious misdiagnosis, subtle power plays, and shrewd detective work...... Susan Greenhalgh presents a case study of her intense encounter with an enthusiastic young specialist who, through creative interpretation of the diagnostic criteria for a newly emerging chronic disease, became convinced she had a painful, essentially untreatable, lifelong muscle condition called fibromyalgia. Greenhalgh traces the ruinous effects of this diagnosis on her inner world, bodily health, and overall well-being. Under the Medical Gaze serves as a powerful illustration of medicine's power to create and inflict suffering, to define disease and the self, and to manage relationships and lives."

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Medical-Gaze-Fictions-Chronic/dp/0520223985/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323437162&sr=1-1

Edited December 9, 2011 by shanvan

[leeannpal]

Do you believe that 1/4 of the women in this population have mental illness??

Anti-depressants are indicated for more than just depression. I am currently on Cymbalta, not for depression, but for Fibromyalgia. No, I am not mentally ill, but I am very thankful that Cymbalta makes my life manageable.

[leeannpal]

What was the rate of institutionalizing people in the 1930s-1950s? Does anyone know? It seems like it wasn't super uncommon for housewives to get a rest at a facility.

 

I was always anti-meds, not even tylenol. I am so thankful for the meds for adhd/tourettes/trichotillomania/anxiety. It used to be that people were shunned, and/or institutionalized. I know my dh has a lot of shame from growing up with the same issues my ds has.

 

Honestly, I would rather doctors look at each person on a case-by-case basis. Yes, do the work ups, but also if someone needs it prescribe something to help them get by.

 

I have a whole family tree full of alcoholics self-medicating for anxiety or adhd. If an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety helps them to be whole, functioning people, there for their family, then I am all for it.

 

My grandmother had what was termed a "nervous breakdown" in the early 1950's when she started into Menopause. I'm sure she could have greatly benefitted from anit-depressants had they been available then.

[leeannpal]

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a medical community that gives way too many pills (of all kinds). There is nothing wrong with people sharing their experiences with these meds being unnecessarily thrown at them. We should be able to discuss this issue without hyperdefensiveness.

Do you have an issue which might require an anti-depressant? If not, then you really don't have a clue about what "hypersensitive" means.

[YLVD]

Do you have an issue which might require an anti-depressant? If not, then you really don't have a clue about what "hypersensitive" means.

 

Exactly, thank you

[lakotajm]

Funny, I read the opposite - that women get happier as they get older. That has certainly been my experience.

Well, my experience has certainly been what the previous poster said.:glare:May depend on whether or not they are married-I think I had read it too; that if they are married, they get less happy.

Anyway, I have been off and on a.d. for about 6 years now, after having my third child. It was excruciating mental anguish which drove me to the doctor, not a mild twinge of fatigue. I tried at times to stay off, once for almost a year. But the symptoms kept reoccurring. Who wants to be on them?! I'd love to say I didn't need to be, but it isn't true.

I am a little worried about the side effects. I have checked into them and have had the doctor prescribe different ones and adjust dosgaes accordingly. It is worrisome, and I look forward to the day that I can be the mellow chick I was in my 20s without meds. My mom says I'm gonna love menopause. She blames estrogen. Not sure, cause it actually started when I was pregnant!

[melmichigan]

Just for the record...I want to add that there are plenty of doctors (psychiatrist) that do NOT write out prescriptions without extensive therapy sessions.

 

I think what appears to be the biggest problem that some have with the topic of women and medication is that it is too readily available? I had a general MD explain to me that she was learning how to treat mental health patients b/c patients could not afford, or did not have insurance for psychiatric therapy. It was extremely expensive. So, she said that a lot of ppl were coming to her and getting their medicines b/c they couldn't afford other options. So, its seems to me that the system is more broken than anything. I think that MD's are trying to diagnose mental health issues that they have no business diagnosing. And, therefore, they are guessing as to the medications for treatment. I do believe psychiatry is a science. I believe it has taught us much about human behaviors. And, I guess I could go so far as to add that a scientific study, or data of any kind, doesn't make me feel any more valid or comfortable with treating illness. I am a devout skeptic when it comes to most anything that comes from the scientific community. You can't simply go to any doctor and trust that the info you are getting is correct. You have to research and take control of your own health.

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there seems to be just waaaay too much scrutiny over this particular health issue. You could take just about anything that has been said on this thread and apply it toward any illness.

 

Also, there seems to be a lot of ppl that have strong opinions based on negative experiences. I understand that too. I just think that you should guard your harsh judgments and criticisms and keep them in line with your experience. You might also consider that if you had taken different steps you quite possibly could have avoided your experience all together.

 

Lastly, I am just amazed at the condescending tone many of these posts share. It seems that there are several on this board that really, truly think that the women on these medicines do not have the intellect to actually make this decision for themselves. I find that extremely offensive. I cant imagine taking anything more serious than the treatment of mental health! I will agree that it's definitely not a 'one size fits all' science, but that doesn't exist for anyone.

 

Ok, I'm done. I don't want to offend. I just want to clarify what I feel is being miscommunicated. It breaks my heart that many people just simply do not understand the complications of mental health. That even though there are those out there that say if you need meeds, by all means take them, just don't quite understand the gravity of what they are saying. So many ppl would be incapable of functioning if they didn't have medicine to help them cope. Think about what i just said... COPE. These women are not walking around doped up and feeling happy about life. Many of them are taking a medicine so that they can get out of bed and be the mother, wife and daughter they need to be.

 

Just think about that...think about if you couldn't get out of bed tomorrow because you were mentally ill. You absolutely. could. not. get up and 'do your life'. Can you imagine? Most women have this hit them after they become a mother. How devastating for them! You cant just say.."oops, made a mistake. I shouldn't have had kids..I can't handle it" No, you have to make the best decision that you can for the situation that you are in. You have to be present, and in the moment. You have to be there.

 

Im just suggesting that some of you think a bit more about what you are actually suggesting. I realize that its difficult to see drug abuse in our society, but I really do think you are looking at the exception, not the norm.

 

Thank you.

[tricia]

WOW! That's crazy indeed. :tongue_smilie:

[YLVD]

My grandmother had what was termed a "nervous breakdown" in the early 1950's when she started into Menopause. I'm sure she could have greatly benefitted from anit-depressants had they been available then.

 

Yep, my grandma was clearly suffering from bipolar disorder during that time period. The doctors just thought she was hysterical and did nothing for her.

 

She had a whole slew of kids and her being unmedicated and bipolar made their childhood hellish. She finally got some help once she was a senior but a lot of damage was done.

[YLVD]

Just for the record...I want to add that there are plenty of doctors (psychiatrist) that do NOT write out prescriptions without extensive therapy sessions.

 

I think what appears to be the biggest problem that some have with the topic of women and medication is that it is too readily available? I had a general MD explain to me that she was learning how to treat mental health patients b/c patients could not afford, or did not have insurance for psychiatric therapy. It was extremely expensive. So, she said that a lot of ppl were coming to her and getting their medicines b/c they couldn't afford other options. So, its seems to me that the system is more broken than anything. I think that MD's are trying to diagnose mental health issues that they have no business diagnosing. And, therefore, they are guessing as to the medications for treatment. I do believe psychiatry is a science. I believe it has taught us much about human behaviors. And, I guess I could go so far as to add that a scientific study, or data of any kind, doesn't make me feel any more valid or comfortable with treating illness. I am a devout skeptic when it comes to most anything that comes from the scientific community. You can't simply go to any doctor and trust that the info you are getting is correct. You have to research and take control of your own health.

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there seems to be just waaaay too much scrutiny over this particular health issue. You could take just about anything that has been said on this thread and apply it toward any illness.

 

Also, there seems to be a lot of ppl that have strong opinions based on negative experiences. I understand that too. I just think that you should guard your harsh judgments and criticisms and keep them in line with your experience. You might also consider that if you had taken different steps you quite possibly could have avoided your experience all together.

 

Lastly, I am just amazed at the condescending tone many of these posts share. It seems that there are several on this board that really, truly think that the women on these medicines do not have the intellect to actually make this decision for themselves. I find that extremely offensive. I cant imagine taking anything more serious than the treatment of mental health! I will agree that it's definitely not a 'one size fits all' science, but that doesn't exist for anyone.

 

Ok, I'm done. I don't want to offend. I just want to clarify what I feel is being miscommunicated. It breaks my heart that many people just simply do not understand the complications of mental health. That even though there are those out there that say if you need meeds, by all means take them, just don't quite understand the gravity of what they are saying. So many ppl would be incapable of functioning if they didn't have medicine to help them cope. Think about what i just said... COPE. These women are not walking around doped up and feeling happy about life. Many of them are taking a medicine so that they can get out of bed and be the mother, wife and daughter they need to be.

 

Just think about that...think about if you couldn't get out of bed tomorrow because you were mentally ill. You absolutely. could. not. get up and 'do your life'. Can you imagine? Most women have this hit them after they become a mother. How devastating for them! You cant just say.."oops, made a mistake. I shouldn't have had kids..I can't handle it" No, you have to make the best decision that you can for the situation that you are in. You have to be present, and in the moment. You have to be there.

 

Im just suggesting that some of you think a bit more about what you are actually suggesting. I realize that its difficult to see drug abuse in our society, but I really do think you are looking at the exception, not the norm.

 

:iagree:

 

Thank you for this post.

 

I spent years dealing with depression and anxiety. I would go days without sleeping and then sleep for 14 hours a day. Depression does not just manifest itself as feeling down, etc. As a teen I went from working three grade levels ahead and in the gifted program to attending an alternative high school because I was drinking to self medicate and acting out. I wish that someone had taken me to the doctor and maybe even considered meds. It would have changed a lot in my life.

 

I had the signs of bipolar disorder for a years but just brushed it off, didn't think I needed meds. Until one day my life changed. I literally woke up one morning and life as I knew it was over. The bipolar symptoms hit me full force.

 

I wish that I could convey what it was like and what it continues to be like. It is as though I was in a car accident and two years later, I'm still recovering. I had to leave the career that I worked so hard to get. I had been a single mom, put myself through university, and was making it.

 

Overnight..done, over. I became a shell of myself. I could go on and on but suffice to say, there is no way to tell you how horrifying it was and continues to be.

 

I'm doing better now but I still can't function in the way that I used to, although I am able to work, albeit part time and no longer in my career field. It honestly has been a brain injury, that's what it is. People with standard, not manic, depression may not experience it in this way exactly but it can be very debilitating.

 

Sure, there may be some overdiagnosis but I'm more concerned about those that are not diagnosed, that suffer from mental health conditions are do not seek out the meds and treatment that they need because of posts like some that I see here.

 

I have always had an issue with big pharma. And yet, medication, antidepressants and mood stablizers, have made it possible for me to function in daily life, be a mother and partner. Without them, I wouldn't be here.

 

Many of the posts here indicate that people just don't have a clue. I'm sorry but it's true. I understand that it can be tough to understand. I would not have fully grasped it until it happened to me.

 

You just never know. I never thought that my life would change in the blink of an eye. It can happen and trust me, if it happens to you, your view on this issue will change drastically.

[SailorMom]

Speaking of changing drastically....

My DH was very anti-med, and very condescending about people who took anti-depressants. Believed the "boot-strap" philosophy, and therapy, could be a cure all.

 

Now that I've been on Wellbutrin for almost two years, his only questions is, "can you take this forever without any long term side effects?"

 

He is a complete convert. We both feel that the meds shouldn't be prescribed without working with a therapist, though. My therapist and doctor worked together to help me.

 

I am not numb. Quite the opposite. Numb was what I felt before in order to get through the day. I feel wonderful. My marriage is better than it has ever been, I have a great relationship with my kids. I am very offended by the posts that have used the word "numb" to describe the effects of these meds.

 

I have seen the tragedy of someone "self-medicating" with alcohol. My mom died at 49 from multiple organ failure. I think she was sufferring for many years, but because her family thought getting help for any sort of mental illness was shameful, she sufferred silently and drank herself into oblivion. I do not think therapy alone could have helped her.

[mirth]

Sure, there may be some overdiagnosis but I'm more concerned about those that are not diagnosed, that suffer from mental health conditions are do not seek out the meds and treatment that they need because of posts like some that I see here.

 

I am most concerned for seniors. According to this report,

Seniors and Anxiety

Studies have confirmed that seniors taking anti‐anxiety medications may be at increased risk for memory impairment, balance issues, confusion and a loss of inhibitions. The use of these medications has decreased since Medicare Part D was enacted and the medications lost coverage under the bill.

 

All age groups and sexes had significant increases in anti-anxiety med usage except seniors which shows a dramatic 44 percent decrease since 2001.

 

So whether the need for mental health meds are overdiagnosed/misdiagnosed or not, suppose you are on them, and have been for decades -- and now you are losing coverage at age 65 and/or are experiencing serious side effects. Now what?

Edited December 9, 2011 by mirth

[zaichiki]

The point (as I see it) of all these posts is that given the lack of clear cause and effect testing there is great potential for misdiagnoses and necessary, ineffective, and even harmful medication. Because you are being treated for a mental illness and taking a medication that works for you does not mean that this is happening to you. It also does not mean that it isn't happening to others. And, once you have a diagnoses from one doctor (even if it is wrong) it is not always easy to convince another doctor that the diagnoses isn't correct. If we are talking about mental illness, the patient may be even struggling with what is really happening to them to the point that he or she cannot give accurate information to a doctor.

 

Very clear. :iagree: Thank you.

[YLVD]

I am most concerned for seniors. According to this report,

 

Seniors and Anxiety

 

Studies have confirmed that seniors taking anti‐anxiety medications may be at increased risk for memory impairment, balance issues, confusion and a loss of inhibitions. The use of these medications has decreased since Medicare Part D was enacted and the medications lost coverage under the bill.

 

 

All age groups and sexes had significant increases in anti-anxiety med usage except seniors which shows a dramatic 44 percent decrease since 2001.

 

So whether the need for mental health meds are overdiagnosed/misdiagnosed or not, suppose you are on them, and have been for decades -- and now you are losing coverage at age 65 and/or are experiencing serious side effects. Now what?

 

That is rough. I don't know. I pay $400 out of pocket per month for meds and work part time. I could very well be in that position. I don't have insurance coverage.

[Allearia]

I am most concerned for seniors. According to this report,

 

Seniors and Anxiety

 

Studies have confirmed that seniors taking anti‐anxiety medications may be at increased risk for memory impairment, balance issues, confusion and a loss of inhibitions. The use of these medications has decreased since Medicare Part D was enacted and the medications lost coverage under the bill.

 

 

All age groups and sexes had significant increases in anti-anxiety med usage except seniors which shows a dramatic 44 percent decrease since 2001.

 

So whether the need for mental health meds are overdiagnosed/misdiagnosed or not, suppose you are on them, and have been for decades -- and now you are losing coverage at age 65 and/or are experiencing serious side effects. Now what?

 

I would be extremely grateful to have had the life I did with the medication, instead of suffering for years and continuing to suffer. Side effects and all, it is worth it because I am really living life. Maybe when I am 65, I will not be able to take them, and that will be sad, but should I suffer until then because I may have to stop at some point? Should my children and family suffer? Hopefully by then the children are grown and so won't be as affected by the parent's mental health issues.

[Nakia]

:iagree:

 

Thank you for this post.

 

I spent years dealing with depression and anxiety. I would go days without sleeping and then sleep for 14 hours a day. Depression does not just manifest itself as feeling down, etc. As a teen I went from working three grade levels ahead and in the gifted program to attending an alternative high school because I was drinking to self medicate and acting out. I wish that someone had taken me to the doctor and maybe even considered meds. It would have changed a lot in my life.

 

I had the signs of bipolar disorder for a years but just brushed it off, didn't think I needed meds. Until one day my life changed. I literally woke up one morning and life as I knew it was over. The bipolar symptoms hit me full force.

 

I wish that I could convey what it was like and what it continues to be like. It is as though I was in a car accident and two years later, I'm still recovering. I had to leave the career that I worked so hard to get. I had been a single mom, put myself through university, and was making it.

 

Overnight..done, over. I became a shell of myself. I could go on and on but suffice to say, there is no way to tell you how horrifying it was and continues to be.

 

I'm doing better now but I still can't function in the way that I used to, although I am able to work, albeit part time and no longer in my career field. It honestly has been a brain injury, that's what it is. People with standard, not manic, depression may not experience it in this way exactly but it can be very debilitating.

 

Sure, there may be some overdiagnosis but I'm more concerned about those that are not diagnosed, that suffer from mental health conditions are do not seek out the meds and treatment that they need because of posts like some that I see here.

 

I have always had an issue with big pharma. And yet, medication, antidepressants and mood stablizers, have made it possible for me to function in daily life, be a mother and partner. Without them, I wouldn't be here.

 

Many of the posts here indicate that people just don't have a clue. I'm sorry but it's true. I understand that it can be tough to understand. I would not have fully grasped it until it happened to me.

 

You just never know. I never thought that my life would change in the blink of an eye. It can happen and trust me, if it happens to you, your view on this issue will change drastically.

 

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder almost 2 years ago after being misdiagnosed and mistreated by my primary physician for about 8 years. I finally took myself to a psychiatrist, and I believe that action saved my life. It's been a long hard road, but I am finally mostly stable, lol. I'm sure you get that. :grouphug:

[shanvan]

The point (as I see it) of all these posts is that given the lack of clear cause and effect testing there is great potential for misdiagnoses and unnecessary, ineffective, and even harmful medication. Because you are being treated for a mental illness and taking a medication that works for you does not mean that this is happening to you. It also does not mean that it isn't happening to others. And, once you have a diagnoses from one doctor (even if it is wrong) it is not always easy to convince another doctor that the diagnoses isn't correct. If we are talking about mental illness, the patient may be even struggling with what is really happening to them to the point that he or she cannot give accurate information to a doctor.

Very clear. :iagree: Thank you.

 

Just realized I typed necessary instead of unnecessary. Oops!

[lakotajm]

Quote:

I had a general MD explain to me that she was learning how to treat mental health patients b/c patients could not afford, or did not have insurance for psychiatric therapy. It was extremely expensive. So, she said that a lot of ppl were coming to her and getting their medicines b/c they couldn't afford other options. So, its seems to me that the system is more broken than anything. I think that MD's are trying to diagnose mental health issues that they have no business diagnosing.

 

Absolutely true! I am on Medicaid, which will not pay for adult mental health services. I have spoken to my doctor about this, because she always makes sure to ask if I am getting therapy. I was lucky enough to be so poor that I qualified for 6 free sessions at a local Community Counseling Center, when I went there inquiring about marriage counseling.

After that, there's a sliding fee, but I haven't the money for it. Our system is broken; that is much of the problem, for sure.

 

And I absolutely agree also with the comments about the only other alternative, especially in the past, being to self-medicate with alcohol. I am a recovering alcoholic. I suffered from depression as a teenager, too. My mother saw the signs and got me into counseling, but not before I had gotten hooked on alcohol.

 

When I suffered from this adult round of depression, I was a new Christian and full of belief in things like faith healing. So I spent many nights on my knees, bathed in tears, aking God why he couldn't "fix me". Seriously, the stigma of mental illness and the "bootstrap" theory and the Michael Pearl/"If you had enough faith..." religious theories need to be dashed to death. I hope this thread will help!

Edited December 10, 2011 by lakotajm
spelling

[3browneyedboys4me]

I just have to say that I've been extremely moved by the testimonies of the women on this board! I was so concerned when I first saw this thread that there would just be nothing but hurt feelings. I have to say that even though there have been some extremely inappropriate responses, I have just been so touched by all the women that have had the courage to put their stories on here and share their journey. I think that you all are amazing, and I am so glad that you found help- whether it be in the form of therapy, medicine, or both!

 

I pray that you all continue on your journey to good mental health!!!

:grouphug:

[Halcyon]

nm

Edited December 10, 2011 by Halcyon

[justamouse]

I totally understand about withdrawal symptoms. I had a doozy of a time withdrawing from Zoloft, which is why I hesitate to go back on. But that doesn't mean the drug is worthless or should never be prescribed.

 

"Less self-destructively" is not entirely in the eye of the beholder. Cocaine, alcohol and many other drugs can lead to complete ruin, emotional, physical, familial, financial. I have yet to see anyone have that happen because he or she was taking Zoloft.

 

Death from suicide is not complete, emotional, physical, familial and financial ruin? :confused:

 

I'm kind of awestruck by that thought. I can't help but think maybe you didn't mean to say that?

 

Or, how about how drug companies hide data on the drug's side effects?

 

All you have to do is google anti depressant suicides, and you'll come up with page upon page of reputable sources.

 

FDA is asking manufacturers to change the labels of ten drugs to include stronger cautions and warnings about the need to monitor patients for the worsening of depression and the emergence of suicidal ideation, regardless of the cause of such worsening.

In March 2004, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a public health advisory regarding worsening depression and suicidality in pediatric and adult patients being treated with 10 newer antidepressants (bupropion, citalopram, fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, mirtazapine, nefazodone, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, and venlafaxine) +(1). The March 2004 advisory recommended close observation for the emergence of suicidality in all patients treated with antidepressants, especially at the time of treatment initiation or dose increase. The FDA warning prompted reports in the medical +(2, +3) and lay +(4, +5) press that antidepressants could worsen depression or increase the risk of suicide in adults as well as adolescents.

 

quote from Psychiatryonline

 

Many of you don't agree with Ester, but I would much rather go a route that assured me that the drugs were a last course option and were monitored diligently by a treating therapist. And, frankly, that's just not the case most times, not with those stats-it can't be.

 

I am 100% sure that there were a few times in my life I would have been prescribed antidepressants/psychotropic drugs. And yet, I never took them, and doing what Esther did with diet, exercise and removing myself from some situations, it all worked out. One time was with severe PPD, but I was metacognizing my thoughts, and knew what was happening. I upped my nutritionals, started making sure I was getting on the phone to people every day and started walking every day. It got better.

 

Again, for the gazillionth time, I am NOT saying that they are not needed, but they are far over prescribed by people who should have no business prescribing them.

Edited December 10, 2011 by justamouse

[Perry]

The point (as I see it) of all these posts is that given the lack of clear cause and effect testing there is great potential for misdiagnoses and unnecessary, ineffective, and even harmful medication.

This is true of just about anything in medicine though. Diagnosis and treatment is much less clear-cut than people seem to think. It might be even more difficult with mental illness, but it certainly isn't limited to psychiatry.

[Geo]

:iagree:

Exactly! I have bipolar disorder. I've been diagnosed and have had a few different doctors all weigh in on it. So, because they can't measure it exactly, I should just suffer throughout life and likely kill myself? That is the kind of ridiculous thing that people say when they have no clue what actual mental illness is like.

 

:thumbup:

[Geo]

.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Geo

[Sandra in FL]

If you have depression, I urge you to get tested for MTHFR which is a genetic mutation in the way the body handles folate (folic acid). IIRC, about 40% of the population has it. A high dose of methylfolate (a converted/active form of folate) is what's used in

 

Deplin - depression http://www.deplin.com/

Metanx - diabetes http://www.metanx.com/

Cerefolin - Alzheimer's/memory loss http://cerefolinnac.com/

NeevoDHA - high risk pregnancy http://www.neevodha.com/

and used to lower homocysteine (marker for risk of CVD/stroke)

 

It can be bought over the counter and here are some reviews:

 

http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Folate-Metafolin-Folic-Acid-800-mcg-100-Tablets/13961?at=1

 

http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Folate-400-mcg-100-Tablets/14274?at=1

 

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Optimized-Folate-L-Methylfolate-1000-mcg-100-Veggie-Caps-Discontinued-Item/18245?at=1

Edited December 10, 2011 by Sandra in FL