Ugh, I just sent dd8 to her room...

[5LittleMonkeys]

and told her to make a decision about staying home or going to ps. I NEVER thought I would say that to her, but I really do mean it. She immediately said she doesn't want to go to ps, but if she did I would enroll her right after Christmas break. I've spent the last three years struggling, arguing and fighting with dd12 over her attitude, emotions and schoolwork and I just can NOT go through it again with dd8.

 

I don't know what the problem is. We do art, experiments, projects, take days off frequently, in fact we just had a week off of Thanksgiving. She has, for the last couple of months been getting more and more whiny about doing her schoolwork. She tells me all the time that she doesn't want to go to ps, but I know that it's because she enjoys sleeping in, playing, getting days off, doing school in her pajamas, basically all of the perks of home schooling. She KNOWS ps would be harder and more work but yet she keeps giving me this attitude. Ugh, I know she is young but I seriously can't go down this road again with another child (did I already mention this;)).

 

So, I had this fleeting feeling that I'm failing her in some way, that I need to make things even MORE fun, get rid of the workbooks (the few we have), make everything project\interest based...but then I stopped and got angry because that isn't the way I want to run our homeschool....that isn't the type of education I want her to have. I try to customize to learning style and interest but I don't want my dc to manipulate me to the point that I just throw up my hands and resort to unschooling (no offense to unschoolers). Yes, learning can be enjoyable but it's also hard work sometimes and I don't think 3rd grade is too early to start learning that. She wants EVERYTHING to be turned into a game, but I have 5 dc to deal with and I just don't have the time, energy, or inclination to make a game of every subject.

 

She really, really doesn't have any reason to complain. Her work is completely appropriate to her skill level and we get all of her core subjects done in about 2 hours. Her reading and content subjects take another 1 1\2 to 2 hours depending on how long she spends on projects\crafts. She also gets two 2 hour breaks throughout the day. I sit with her to do most of her work and always try to keep a light, amusing attitude while we are working. I'm not going to completely overhaul all of our curricula. I have spent countless hours researching and what I'm using is, imo, the best for her learning style, my teaching style, and for the skills\content I want her to learn.

 

Usually she will give me a hard time; whine, cry and complain, and then after I make her go sit in her room for a bit she will grudgingly do the work, but it's like working with an energy vampire the rest of the day. I have to drag her through everything; its exhausting. Today I decided that I wasn't going to put myself or anyone else through that. I hate that she is putting me in the position of being the mean mom with this. I've told her that she will not play with her friend this afternoon and that she will have a meeting with dh when he gets home from work. Her work missed from today will have to be done tomorrow which means she won't get to play with her friend tomorrow either. I could probably get her to come down now and do the work because she doesn't want to have to talk to dh about this and doesn't want to miss playing this afternoon, but I really feel she needs to experience the repercussions of her behavior otherwise we will just keep playing out this same scenario day after day.

 

Well, sorry for the rant. I tried to call dh at work but he was in a meeting so I had to vent to someone!

 

Hopefully this will have an impact on her and we will be on the verge of a new attitude tomorrow.

[sagira]

:grouphug: Sympathizing here. I've been there, and some days (getting rarer, thankfully) I'm still there :glare:

[Cynful]

I'm sorry, I don't have any advice but :grouphug:. I get this from my daughter too but not quite as extreme. Actually I get this more from my son - it's exhausting.

[Hedgehog]

and told her to make a decision about staying home or going to ps. I NEVER thought I would say that to her, but I really do mean it. She immediately said she doesn't want to go to ps, but if she did I would enroll her right after Christmas break. I've spent the last three years struggling, arguing and fighting with dd12 over her attitude, emotions and schoolwork and I just can NOT go through it again with dd8.

 

I don't know what the problem is. We do art, experiments, projects, take days off frequently, in fact we just had a week off of Thanksgiving. She has, for the last couple of months been getting more and more whiny about doing her schoolwork. She tells me all the time that she doesn't want to go to ps, but I know that it's because she enjoys sleeping in, playing, getting days off, doing school in her pajamas, basically all of the perks of home schooling. She KNOWS ps would be harder and more work but yet she keeps giving me this attitude. Ugh, I know she is young but I seriously can't go down this road again with another child (did I already mention this;)).

 

So, I had this fleeting feeling that I'm failing her in some way, that I need to make things even MORE fun, get rid of the workbooks (the few we have), make everything project\interest based...but then I stopped and got angry because that isn't the way I want to run our homeschool....that isn't the type of education I want her to have. I try to customize to learning style and interest but I don't want my dc to manipulate me to the point that I just throw up my hands and resort to unschooling (no offense to unschoolers). Yes, learning can be enjoyable but it's also hard work sometimes and I don't think 3rd grade is too early to start learning that. She wants EVERYTHING to be turned into a game, but I have 5 dc to deal with and I just don't have the time, energy, or inclination to make a game of every subject.

 

She really, really doesn't have any reason to complain. Her work is completely appropriate to her skill level and we get all of her core subjects done in about 2 hours. Her reading and content subjects take another 1 1\2 to 2 hours depending on how long she spends on projects\crafts. She also gets two 2 hour breaks throughout the day. I sit with her to do most of her work and always try to keep a light, amusing attitude while we are working. I'm not going to completely overhaul all of our curricula. I have spent countless hours researching and what I'm using is, imo, the best for her learning style, my teaching style, and for the skills\content I want her to learn.

 

Usually she will give me a hard time; whine, cry and complain, and then after I make her go sit in her room for a bit she will grudgingly do the work, but it's like working with an energy vampire the rest of the day. I have to drag her through everything; its exhausting. Today I decided that I wasn't going to put myself or anyone else through that. I hate that she is putting me in the position of being the mean mom with this. I've told her that she will not play with her friend this afternoon and that she will have a meeting with dh when he gets home from work. Her work missed from today will have to be done tomorrow which means she won't get to play with her friend tomorrow either. I could probably get her to come down now and do the work because she doesn't want to have to talk to dh about this and doesn't want to miss playing this afternoon, but I really feel she needs to experience the repercussions of her behavior otherwise we will just keep playing out this same scenario day after day.

 

Well, sorry for the rant. I tried to call dh at work but he was in a meeting so I had to vent to someone!

 

Hopefully this will have an impact on her and we will be on the verge of a new attitude tomorrow.

 

:grouphug: to you. It sounds more than tough - especially if you've already had to deal with one such phase!

 

I confess I am a mean momma. If any of my kids give me attitude, they lose everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, they enjoy, bit by bit, until the attitude improves. It might sound hard, but it has worked here. Rabbit and Pooh have a good attitude to their work, whether it be schoolwork or chores, and they value their extra-curriculars partly because they know they are not guaranteed to get them. Rewards, privileges and freedom come after showing responsibility and diligence.

 

So I think you were absolutely right to take away the reward/privilege of playing with a friend. I would encourage you to remain calm, but to consistently mete out a consequence. The behaviour isn't acceptable in your home, period. In the end she will realise that the only person who hurts from her bad attitude is herself, and then hopefully she will give it up.

 

Good luck! :001_smile:

[Bloggermom]

This may sound a bit strange, but maybe she is seeking MORE structure. If what you do each day is not a constant and secure schedule that she can expect day in and day out she may be feeling chaotic and out of control. This could lead to her feeling insecure and could cause her to act out. Just some food for thought.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Thanks for the hugs guys.:D

 

 

So I think you were absolutely right to take away the reward/privilege of playing with a friend. I would encourage you to remain calm, but to consistently mete out a consequence. The behaviour isn't acceptable in your home, period. In the end she will realise that the only person who hurts from her bad attitude is herself, and then hopefully she will give it up.

 

Good luck! :001_smile:

 

You are absolutely right regarding the bolded. I finally got through to dd12 through A LOT of calm, unemotional responses and natural consequences so I know how effective it is. I think, with dd8, her behavior just crept up on me, and I thought it was just a mood or a phase, but its been going on too long. Seems I can't let my guard down yet....and I still have two more after this one too!

[Leav97]

Our approach was to increase the amount of work. Sounds backwards but, it worked. She still does more work by choice now then she did when she was complaining.

[SweetMissMagnolia]

:grouphug: hope you find something that works for both of you....

[jplain]

It sounds to me like your daughter is getting PLENTY of free time.

Send her over to my house for a while, and she might change her tune. :tongue_smilie:

 

My 8yo is doing far better this year with more structure and higher expectations.

I can tell because she randomly blurts out that she loves me while she's doing her schoolwork. :lol:

 

Do you think your daughter might need more outside activities and/or unstructured time with friends? Classes don't count as real playtime!

[Create Your Ritual]

You know the one thing that I never expected was that after I brought them home from ps I would still be dealing with behavior disruptions and such. It's not that my kids were perfect at home before that, it's just that I assumed when it was time to school they would just get down to business. ;-)

 

I have noticed a pattern though. There are 'certain' times of the month that I am unlikely to work with it better than others. Some weeks we discuss and they turn it around.. and other's I am a lunatic. ha. Well, maybe not that bad.

 

One thing that I have noticed that has helped us is that we have immediate consequences to bad behavior. So, if dd isn't wanting to stop interrupting, or if ds is pouting over something I stop and have them give me 25 pushups or 25 jumping jacks. It sort of re-adjusts their attitude to know that 'something' is going to happen to them and the consequence isn't going to be me yelling at them. Just the other night (completely unrelated to school time) my dh took both kids to the local gym for bball practice. He is helping coach dd this year and wanted to work out a schedule before hand. She wasn't much in the mood for running lines and would just walk them if ds got ahead of her. So, the alternative isn't to 'walk' the lines, but for every line you want to walk you get to stop and do 25 pushups at it and then when you finally decide to run them you can stop doing pushups. I have to make it uncomfortable for them.. not for me. I have to deal with THEIR specific currency. For dd it's her horses and horse riding time or having a friend over.

 

I think part of homeschooling is just going to be developing their behaviors and helping them become more appropriate to send out into the world. Each child is so vastly different, even within the same family, that the same thing will not work for both. However, instead of having the teacher in public school address it, I get to. Not my favorite part of the job for sure though!

 

I told them both the other day when they weren't paying attention, that they were more than welcome to go back to ps. It really wasn't meant as a threat. I just wanted them to understand that I didn't grow up in the world intending to be a teacher. This wasn't my 'thing' so to speak, so my patience level for their antics was not the same as someone who loves a room full of wild children. However, I could teach them what they wanted and needed to know. I could fill their minds up with all sorts of interesting things. I could give them the space and time to develop their own interests on their own timetable. But I could ONLY do it if they came to the table prepared to work and ready to listen. Otherwise they could take their chances that some other teacher would be more patient or do a better job. ;-)

Edited November 29, 2011 by SaDonna

[5LittleMonkeys]

This may sound a bit strange, but maybe she is seeking MORE structure. If what you do each day is not a constant and secure schedule that she can expect day in and day out she may be feeling chaotic and out of control. This could lead to her feeling insecure and could cause her to act out. Just some food for thought.

 

It doesn't sound strange at all. I have thought about this. I try to stay as consistent as possible with our daily schedule, but unfortunately with 5 dc there are days that we don't get to stay on schedule. There are times when I have to stop what I'm doing with dd8 to help someone else and there have been times when I know I'm going to be awhile and I will tell dd8 to go play (there isn't a lot she can do independently) until I can finish up with someone else. Maybe you are right and that is part of the problem. I'll look at the schedule and see if I can arrange it so she is guaranteed uninterrupted time. Thanks.:D

[5LittleMonkeys]

I just wanted them to understand that I didn't grow up in the world intending to be a teacher. This wasn't my 'thing' so to speak, so my patience level for their antics was not the same as someone who loves a room full of wild children. However, I could teach them what they wanted and needed to know. I could fill their minds up with all sorts of interesting things. I could give them the space and time to develop their own interests on their own timetable. But I could ONLY do it if they came to the table prepared to work and ready to listen. Otherwise they could take their chances that some other teacher would be more patient or do a better job. ;-)

 

 

I'm going to paint this on the wall! This is pretty much what I told her this morning...and to one or the other of my dc every day for the last 3 years. My older two get this (although there are days that it slips their minds). I don't know that dd8 really gets it though. I wonder sometimes if she really even understands the end goal of an education or what her life would be like if she didn't get one.

 

Dd12 just went in to talk to her a little while ago. I am having her (dd12) repeat 6th grade this year because she just did so little work last year, and so she was explaining to dd8 how it made her feel to have to be held back a year. She told her that she understood it was necessary, but that it was still extremely frustrating to know that it happened largely due to her bad attitude and refusal to give her schoolwork 100%. She told her she wished she could go back and fix it. I wasn't in on the conversation (yes, I was eavesdropping) and am not going to bring it up, but I hope she takes her sister's words to heart.

[Wee Pip]

No advice, just wanted to say that was my day yesterday:(

[woolybear]

:grouphug: Oh, yes, I've been there. I don't know if it's about maturing or some things I've shifted here, but things are better this year in this regard. Here are some things that really seem to be helping. Ds (my difficult one with school) has a consistent "reward" for school well done, without a bad attitude, etc. He has a checklist for the first time this year. Also, I think the work is more challenging. So, maybe some of that can help??

 

Btw, as far as punishment goes for bad attitude, I have found this to amp up the problem here. It has been far more effective to reward for the good, rather than giving negative consequences for the bad. I am referring only to school issues here and I do know that every home is different. Just saying what's worked here.:)

[houseofkids&pets]

:grouphug: Honestly, it helps me to read your post since I feel like I am going through this same type of behavior with my ds8. After reading the comments from other posters, it has made me realize that there may not be enough structure in our day. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone! BTW, I have used the ps threat in order to get work done around here too. It gets exhausting.

[Caribbean Queen]

Is your child well behaved outside of 'doing school'? If so I would lighten up the school load. My 8 year old does minimal seat work and never does 4 hour days. There is only one subject my son dislikes and I use efficient methods and make sure he is at grade level and leave it at that. I could make him plow through all they do at school but I see no reason for it.

I finally got through to dd12 through A LOT of calm, unemotional responses and natural consequences so I know how effective it is. I think, with dd8, her behavior just crept up on me, and I thought it was just a mood or a phase, but its been going on too long. Seems I can't let my guard down yet....and I still have two more after this one too!

 

You can't let things slide thinking it is a phase or your child is allowed to be moody. You can't ever let your guard down, if letting your guard down means accepting backtalk and such. Ask me how I know. :glare:

Edited November 29, 2011 by Caribbean Queen

[Mommy22alyns]

:grouphug: My 8yo needed an attitude adjustment today too. I also asked her if she'd rather GO to school. She's adamantly against it. ;)

[3monkeys]

I've been in the same boat as you. My 8yr old ds complained about everything no matter the subject. It makes me feel like I'm failing as a teacher. He somehow has convinced me that everything is supposed to be fun. Of course I know better! I think when we parents decide to homeschool, we get this ideal in our head that our kids will just love to learn and will hang on our every word. NOT! I also have my own theory about the kids who have never been to public school. They have no idea how good they have it because you don't know what you don't know. I wish I could just send him for a month so he would appreciate his situation better. I know I'll never do that but it definitely has crossed my mind a few times! :)

One thing I implemented this year and is working pretty well. I have ds8 and ds5. I have two mason jars with their names on it. I put $1 each in their jar to start off. If they do any complaining, procrastinating, etc. during school, I give them a warning. After the 2nd time, I take their $1 out and put it in their brothers jar. At the end of each week, they can earn another $1 for good behavior. So they can visually see their dollars in the jar and let me tell you.....they hate to see their brother get their dollar. They can earn it back with good behavior the rest of the day but if we have a 3rd offense....no $1 is given back. They are not allowed to spend their money until the school year is up. That way they can see their money grow and it's a competition. Boys love competition. Oh....another rule is if you try to get your brother in trouble so he'll lose a $1, then you lose all your money in the jar to mommy with no chance of earning back. No tolerance for trying to sabotage your brother.

I know many will disagree with this but it sure is working and keeps them focused.

[sagira]

Now that you mention it, there IS something about being 8. At least 8 was a rough year for DS. He is almost 10 and he has mellowed quite a bit and has been a lot more cooperative. I actually feel like I can reason with him (like hey buddy you really are being a pain in the neck today...and he gets it).

 

Ah, the light at the end of the tunnel. I remember reading about child development and 10 being the "angel" age for boys. Until they reach 13, of course :tongue_smilie:

[lakotajm]

No advice, just wanted to say that was my day yesterday:(

:iagree:

I wanted to vent to you guys because I had to literally pick up and place my 8yo into her seat more than 5 times during Language Arts, hold her head toward her paper, restate the directions, etc. and trying to do it calmly, in order to finish that one subject. Are all 8yo's mentally unhinged?

 

She has never been to PS and I try to tell her how much harder it would be. She would love to go, so the ps threat would not work. She is uberfriendly and so would love to be around 24 other "friends" all day.:glare:

 

I love the $1 jar idea-I'll start tomorrow!

Lakota

[Halcyon]

I think the answer might be in more structure and less fun, but I'm a mean mom. "Fun" school stuff only happens when my boys behave and buckle down. At the beginning of the school year, I was posting about my 6 year old and his moaning. He just wasn't used to "expectations" of any sort, not having homeschooled with me in any structured manner prior to first grade. I was fairly strict with him, and it worked. Now he sits down and does his work reasonably cheerfully, and knows that backtalk or attitude simply means more work, chores (or some sort of consequence) and fewer privileges. He was shocked and angry when I laid down the law to him, but I learned with his older brother to set high standards and expect him to meet or exceed them. Now he understands that if he does his 2 hours of work without attitude, life is much better for him :)

 

Also, we have a Consequence Board on the wall, and if a child behaves disrespectfully, talks back, moans, whines, groans, rolls their eyes or snorts they get a consequence which I write on the board. Could be 15 min early bedtime, or loss of screen time, or extra chores. I am not a fan of punishments, but we are trying this out.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Halcyon

[Puma Mom]

What helped with my dc was to give them a list at the beginning of the week of what needed to be accomplished each day. There were no breaks except for a half hour lunch break until all the work for the day was done. I did what I needed to do with them at the start of the day, and they then did their individual work after they got whatever instruction was needed.

 

If ds wanted to spend 4 hours looking at his math rather than doing it, I figured that was 4 hours he wasn't pestering his brother. I tried to make it a win-win situation for ME--either they got their work done quickly and that made me happy OR they took forever and I didn't have to referee.

 

Being unemotional about it is important, I agree! Act like you don't care. Matter of factly explain that the work gets done or her life comes to a screeching halt until it is.

 

That said, as they were diligent about their work, I got more flexible about their wanting to move assignments occasionally or even finish up later after a play break. That was an earned privilege though.

[Create Your Ritual]

I will say that I just won't work with belligerent or moody kids. I give them a warning, pushups, jumping jacks etc. If it continues their name goes on the board for the 'super' to talk to them later on that night (dh), and they get extra chores along with whatever else he deems necessary. I guess I am just not capable of accepting their worst selves on a daily basis. I love them dearly though, and because I want to enjoy this experience I just won't allow bad behavior.

 

Also, they all go to their rooms for 'rest' time every day from 1:30 ish - 3:00. The 3 year old takes a nap and the other two read or finish work from that day. It gives me time to workout, everyone time to take a break from each other and then when 3:00 hits we all jump up and get piano, guitar, chores done and then get onto other things!

 

I know I have bad days on occasion, so I must be in a generous mood to say that for the most part I am enjoying it. The sometimes bad attitude that dd has is something she would have regardless of who was dealing with it, and so I am grateful that it's not the ps teachers dealing as they were only making things worse. Oh and ds8 is definitely in the 8 mode that everyone else is speaking of. The days are few like that, but I have definitely noticed a change while I can see dd10 coming out of the very thing that ds8 seems to just be starting. ha Apparently I am not alone!!!

[tlcspcarcetc]

SaDonna,

We do pushups too, mostly because dd9 is very weak and sometimes needs heavy work to recenter her. We had it out the other day and she sat at the table for an hour. I typically sit with her, but she just wouldn't focus, so I left and she was so mad at me. Tough cookies, kid. She does have asperger's, so I know it can be very difficult to focus sometimes, but she has to learn how to do it. She won't function well in the real world without it. Once she stopped screaming, she did her work calmly and finished it really quickly. She just had to get over that emotional hurdle. I should have just made her do pushups, though. She would have done much better, I bet. DH mostly makes her do pushups and it seems so military to me, but it does work.

[Create Your Ritual]

Yes, I look at it like I am integrating PE with our school day. ha. We still do all the local organized sports, but this helps to work out some of their excess energy. Not every kid is a push up kind of kid, but mine sure are.

[5LittleMonkeys]

So, dh had a talk with dd8 when he got home. He explained that being home was a privilege, it wasn't fair to me to have to try to teach her when she was being a stinker, she needed to give her schoolwork 100%, he was disappointed in her....yada, yada...all the same things I said to her a hundred times. Well, she was devastated. She was in tears telling him how sorry she was and that she didn't want him to be upset with her. Uh, hello? What about upsetting me?:001_huh:

 

She really can. not. stand. for her daddy to be upset with her. I should have gotten him involved sooner I guess. She has to call him everyday now when she's done with school and report on her behavior. If she pulls the whining, crying stuff then no play time with her best friend (lives across the street).

She seemed to like the idea of having to call him at work to "report" on her day. Being accountable to someone other than me might be a big incentive.

[tlcspcarcetc]

Question about the money jar idea. Do they get $1 each day with the chance to earn another dollar for good behavior each week? I'm a little confused. It sounds like they get $1 each day. They get a warning if they complain/refuse to do work. If it happens again their sibling gets it, but they can earn it back. If they try to sabotage their sibling, they lose all the money in the jar? Even from months ago? Sounds interesting. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. It's how the workplace works. If you are a hard worker, you earn more money. I especially love that they save their money until the end of the year and then can use it for something. Delayed gratification. I think I love all aspects of it, actually. I'll have to talk to dh about implementing something like this. It may really help with our work avoidance issues with dd9. Of course, I just might go broke, too.

[kalanamak]

:grouphug: to you. It sounds more than tough - especially if you've already had to deal with one such phase!

 

I confess I am a mean momma. If any of my kids give me attitude, they lose everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, they enjoy, bit by bit, until the attitude improves. It might sound hard, but it has worked here.

 

Good luck! :001_smile:

 

I've never had to go that far, but I have had a couple of "you are about to lose everything" moments. We have had that "if we don't homeschool think of what you'll have to do" talks. Sometimes I've just told him how unpleasant this is that I am doing him a service, and does he really want to be such a burden? He doesn't. I think we've have "the big talk" twice and the little ones about once a month or so.

 

I do give him warnings about heavy sighs and "oh, nos", and if the "no let's do X not Y" gets too strident, he's going to lose all control over order.

 

If he really gave me a more-than-one day series of griefs, I would "pull everything". Kiddo has a huge motivator: swimming every night and a bowl of ice cream afterward. He really hates to lose those.

[oneddmanybooks]

...However, I could teach them what they wanted and needed to know. I could fill their minds up with all sorts of interesting things. I could give them the space and time to develop their own interests on their own timetable. But I could ONLY do it if they came to the table prepared to work and ready to listen...

 

This reminds me of a recent conversation I had with my dd. I pointed out to her that although she HAD to get an education, it did not necessarily have to be ME that provided it. ;) I enjoy hsing and, for now, we think it is best for dd. But there certainly are very trying days...and some great ones too.

[happycc]

My second set of kids LOVE that I am homeschooling them.

 

They don;t gripe and groan at all. The younger one sometimes does but she did it even while in PS.

 

They in fact tell dh to wake them up at 6am so they can start school work and get more done!:confused:

 

My first set...oh boy it was pulling teeth for the first one and he seemed to set the precedent for the other two. The other two were more interested in learning than he was though. Should have paid more attention to them but instead focused on keeping him going.

 

We do take A LOT of breaks throughout the day though!

[Hedgehogs4]

This may sound a bit strange, but maybe she is seeking MORE structure. If what you do each day is not a constant and secure schedule that she can expect day in and day out she may be feeling chaotic and out of control. This could lead to her feeling insecure and could cause her to act out. Just some food for thought.

 

:iagree: It sounds to me like she needs to know what to expect, and I also agree with the PP who said that bad attitude is met with severe consequences. Structure and discipline are what builds a secure heart in a kid. Sending her off to ps only sends the message that you are not willing to put up with her anymore. The message should be that you love her too much to allow her to become a spoiled brat, and we'll fix this by establishing strong boundaries. Pull her in, don't send her away. Love's embrace is stronger than our ugliness, and usually breaks up the tension.

[happycc]

You are so so right..Agreed completely....

 

Do not break down and send your child to PS....Stay Strong....Stay the course.

[Mommy22alyns]

Are all 8yo's mentally unhinged?

 

 

 

:smilielol5: I needed that today!

 

I'm also intrigued by the $1 jar. But yes, the girls are NOT actually going to be sent to PS!

[3monkeys]

I started our year with $1 in jar.

They can only earn $1 a week (I'm not rich).

If child complains about school or any negative attitude, they get a warning that next time they will lose their $ to brother.

2nd offense, $ goes in brothers jar (expect tears to follow)

If they do great the rest of the school day showing effort, respect, etc. They earn their $ back. If attitude continues or I have to call ds out 3rd time, brother keeps it, no more chances to earn back.

Now, I learned the hard way that they kept trying to point out flaws in each other in hopes of getting their brothers dollar. I quickly put a stop to that by saying whatever money they had earned up to date will be mine, no questions asked. Neither wants their jar to be completely empty.

So, each child has the potential to earn $36 by the end of year. (36 wks) mine are still young so it's a lot of money to them.

The competition is to see who has the most at the end of year. I haven't decided what I will do special for that child but each one will be able to spend their money however they like.

Hope that answers your questions!

[Alte Veste Academy]

So, dh had a talk with dd8 when he got home. He explained that being home was a privilege, it wasn't fair to me to have to try to teach her when she was being a stinker, she needed to give her schoolwork 100%, he was disappointed in her....yada, yada...all the same things I said to her a hundred times. Well, she was devastated. She was in tears telling him how sorry she was and that she didn't want him to be upset with her. Uh, hello? What about upsetting me?:001_huh:

 

She really can. not. stand. for her daddy to be upset with her. I should have gotten him involved sooner I guess. She has to call him everyday now when she's done with school and report on her behavior. If she pulls the whining, crying stuff then no play time with her best friend (lives across the street).

She seemed to like the idea of having to call him at work to "report" on her day. Being accountable to someone other than me might be a big incentive.

 

I'm sorry but this makes me :lol: big-time because that is exactly how it works here. Every night, I get the biggest compliment DS5 can ever give, which is to tell me, "I love you as much as Daddy, Mommy." Ah, thanks baby.

 

I have found that when DH is home, one of the biggest ways of improving our days is for the kids to look forward to telling Daddy all about their school day. We have had tough days here now and then. Like others, I find things get worse when I don't stick to the schedule. I hope the rest of the week is much better for you.

[jer2911mom]

I'm curious if you've asked her what about school makes her want to cry? Is she bored? Is the work too hard? Is she afraid of getting it wrong? Just curious what the deeper issue might be.

 

Also, along the lines of more structure, you mentioned sleeping in and working in pajamas. It might be that a clear start time and dressing for school might show that you as a family are going to respect the school time a bit more? We only do a couple of pajama days during the year, and they are viewed as a real treat. I feel like if we are all up and dressed, we are more ready to approach our day (think of rolling out of bed, eating breakfast, and going to a job in your pajamas vs. showering and getting dressed to leave). There's something about getting ready that causes a transition in your attitude, that you're prepared/ready to face the day. Maybe this would translate into more respect for work ethic? Just some thoughts..

 

Kathy

[TengoFive]

I found SWB's lecture, Homeschooling the Real Child helpful. It may help you as well and is well worth the $3.25. Right at this second I can't remember anything specific that I used, but I do remember it helped me adjust MY attitude about schooling.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I'm curious if you've asked her what about school makes her want to cry? Is she bored? Is the work too hard? Is she afraid of getting it wrong? Just curious what the deeper issue might be. I don't think she knows for sure. She's told me that its confusing\hard, or that she was too tired, or that it was boring...I think it is probably different reasons on different days.

 

Also, along the lines of more structure, you mentioned sleeping in and working in pajamas. It might be that a clear start time and dressing for school might show that you as a family are going to respect the school time a bit more? We only do a couple of pajama days during the year, and they are viewed as a real treat. I feel like if we are all up and dressed, we are more ready to approach our day (think of rolling out of bed, eating breakfast, and going to a job in your pajamas vs. showering and getting dressed to leave). There's something about getting ready that causes a transition in your attitude, that you're prepared/ready to face the day. Maybe this would translate into more respect for work ethic? Just some thoughts..

 

Kathy

 

She doesn't wear pjs all the time, maybe once every week or so, and we do have a specific start time too. She's expected to get up, eat, do morning chores and be ready to start at 8 or 9 depending on which day it is. We always start on time, but like I said, sometimes her schedule gets interrupted by one of the other 4 dc. I am going to try to protect her time more though and see if that makes a difference.

 

However, I think you do have a point in that I don't think she takes schoolwork seriously. As I mentioned before, I don't know that she really understands why we are doing this. I'm going to be talking to her about it more over the next couple of weeks.

 

I found SWB's lecture, Homeschooling the Real Child helpful. It may help you as well and is well worth the $3.25. Right at this second I can't remember anything specific that I used, but I do remember it helped me adjust MY attitude about schooling.

 

You know, this is the only one of her lectures that I haven't listened to! I think that will be on my list of to do things for this weekend. Thanks for the reminder.

[Jaybee]

Having two boys who are opposite personalities and extremely competitive, I couldn't have their punishment benefit the other one without adding to the already tense sibling dynamic.

 

When ds10 was in 2nd grade (yes, he was 8!), I pulled out a jar, wrote "complaint jar" on it, and talked it up. "Every time you complain and whine, you will have to go and get me 10 cents from your 'spend' envelope to put in the money jar. Then, when it is full, I am going to take myself out for some coffee and dessert by myself! I am going to enjoy it, because I will deserve it after hearing all that complaining!" I had to get him to pay me twice, each time hearing comments like "I can't wait to go out for coffee!" That was it. No more money for me, and never enough for coffee.

 

Both my boys do get frustrated when I am working with one of them and the other interrupts. They lose focus and momentum, so I think OP's idea to give her uninterrupted time will pay benefits.

[rocketgirl]

I would probably remind or explain her of the realities of ps, the waiting, the standing in line, the not getting to go to the bathroom when you think you need to, the sitting by the mean kid for 8 weeks, etc, etc, the lack of any freedom. I hope you do ok!! I have an almost 12 year old, 8, 7, and 3. My 8 year old is nothing like my 11 yo so I do not yet fear going down that road with her :)

[3peasinapod]

After reading half of the responses, there might be something to this 8-year-old thing. I did almost the exact same thing as you yesterday with DD8. Our tiffs are usually with math. She thinks that just because Mama will help her with story problems, she does a half job and doesn't try to think out the problem by herself. I hit a boiling point. I was done, and I had to "hide" for a while to gain control of my emotions. Hard days like this are the worst.

[Penelope]

Eight was not the best year for hs. To put it mildly.

 

Nine is better. :D

[LaughingCat]

Having two boys who are opposite personalities and extremely competitive, I couldn't have their punishment benefit the other one without adding to the already tense sibling dynamic.

 

:iagree:My parents did something similar to this with my older brother and I (sister) for many years - and while it "worked" for them in that it improved my brother's behavior (yes, there was a difference there in that punishment wise it ended up always working against him and in my favor) - it was a poor choice for our relationship with each other.

 

LL

[mom31257]

:grouphug: I'm so sorry this is happening. I pray you will have wisdom on how to handle it.

 

Whatever you do, I don't believe you should have to jump through hoops to deal with this. You should not have to change the method for a child to have the right attitude. Their attitude is their choice. IMHO, children should do what is required of them regardless of whether they like it or not. Work is part of life, and learning takes work. Work is not always fun and exciting. I find no excitement in cleaning toilets, doing laundry, or mopping floors, but I do them because they need doing.

 

If I saw a change in attitude (FIRST!), I might try to accomodate some the child's interests. Doing things the way a child has the most fun should be a reward for doing a harder way with a good attitude.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'll register another vote for more structure or at least an explicitly defined set of expectations for the week and the day. This helps them to know what they need to get done and helps me know when they've done enough. I made the deal with my kids that I would create a schedule; they were held acountable for those items, but if they finished early in the day or week, then I wouldn't pile more on.

 

You might also list the actions she can do independently when you have to be elsewhere: math fact cards, fact sheets (she can time herself), reading practice, handwriting, spelling practice, listening to school related audio books, etc. Of course she's not going to be up for total independence. But there should be small things that she can do when you can't be at the elbow.

[GoVanGogh]

I haven't read all of the replies, but wanted to say...

I told my son the same thing at age eight.

In fact, I told him to go change clothes, brush his teeth and put on his shoes because we were going to enroll him in school right then and there.

I went into the bedroom to cool down. He came in 1/2 hour later, apologized, we hugged and talked about what our conflicts were. We then had a few days of "public school boot camp" where he got up at 6:30, ate breakfast at the kitchen table, etc... He then did school at his desk from 7:50 until 2:50 with few breaks. Everything was regimented. I wasn't mean, just got it across to him that he really did have it nice at home.

The week after, I gave him greater input into his day and let him choose some of his books and schedule.

We have had a few bumps in the road since then, but nothing major.

I just think by 8, they don't want to feel like school is "just something that happens to them." They want greater input and control. (Not 'control' in a bad way.)

 

Earlier this year I listened to SWB's audio on "Teaching the Real Child." Oh, how I needed that when DS was 8! She has some wonderful, practical tips. I actually made an outline from her audio and put it inside our school planner. Any time we have a bump, I read over her suggestions and see if we can implement one or two to keep us going. I love that audio and cannot recommend it highly enough.

 

:grouphug: Today is a new day. Remind your daughter and yourself of that!

[...................]

My 8 year old has been very emotional lately. I don't know if it's early puberty, or what.

 

Personally my dd responds to gentleness and love, combined with clear expectations and consequences.

 

I would make a chart of specific behaviors and specific consequences.

 

Whining = 25 push uPs

Grumbling = 30 push ups

Grumbling or whining about the push ups= do the push ups plus go to bed 20 minutes early

 

Some kids respond to a harsh voice, others kids like my son push back. Other kids shut down and shrivel into a mess. It sounds like your dd pushes back. If she is strong willed that is all the more reason to make the consequences very clear! You will become emotionally exhausted just battling her all day.

 

Also FWIW I would do LESS fun and one on one teaching. My son is strong willed. He does MUCH better with a morning school meeting with me, followed by independent work. Then it's him and the checklist! If I am teaching everything, he sees me as the enemy to be conquered. If I

Give him a checklist, he sees the checklist as the wall to scale, and though he knows that I make that checklist, he somehow likes it better.

 

Additionally, a strong willed child wants to be in control. Giving her more indecent work will allow her tO feel accountable to herself.

 

If she completes the checklist there should be a big prize for the first couple of months- think of something she could earn every day, such as extra computer time, time with you, anything. My strong willed son liked earning a 10 minute break between each subject. He preferred that over a big reward at the end of the day.

 

Hope this helps!!

[Guest]

Add another 8 year old to the list here :glare:, although we do have good and bad days. Anyway, I just wanted to say, thank you for this thread! I have already picked up several ideas that should help and will be reading it over again on the weekend. I really liked the "complaint jar" :lol:! I think this would be a good one for my boy.

 

I do need to work on structure which went haywire after I had my second child (I am still unable to fix his sleeping hours, he just sleeps when he wants and refuses when he doesn't, and he doesn't seem to need much sleep to begin with). Hopefully I can figure this out because Adrian has always done well with structure.

 

Oh, and I also liked the waking him up early and having him do his school like he was in school. Yes, that would show him all the perks he gets vs. kids in the school system. Thank you everyone for sharing your ideas and to the OP for starting this thread. Also, thank you to the poster that mentioned SWB's lecture. I have been wanting to buy some of her lectures this year, I'll be doing that soon and adding the one linked :).

[nicholsonhomeschool]

I have another 8yo member of the "unhinged club!" And there are so many good ideas here, I just wanted to add one thing I'm trying to incorporate -- noticing those rare moments when my 8yo forgets to complain or contradict and saying, "you [finished your math, practiced your cello, took dictation...] without any fuss. you did it and it was so helpful to our day." Really in my mind I'm thinking, "well, FINALLY, you're not acting like a crazy child!" but I don't let that slip out. Usually.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Thank you to everyone who gave words of commiseration and encouragement! I wanted to give an update from today.

 

I know it is far to soon to think that this is fixed but we did have a much better attitude today. Unfortunately, we didn't get to do all of our schoolwork because I had to take dd12's beloved rat Thornbush to the vet and have her euthanized. :crying: Oh my, that was one of the harder things I've had to do in a long, long time. I wished so badly to take that pain away from dd12, but it is part of owning and loving pets.

 

Anyway, dd8 did call dh around 3 to give her "report". I heard her telling him that she did math, reading, grammar and writing but that she didn't do history or science work because "mommy's the one having emotional issues this time". :glare::lol:

 

I did commend her on her cooperation and told her that it was especially helpful today, considering what we were dealing with, that she had a good attitude about getting her work done.

 

Here's :grouphug: for all of us with those crazy 8yr olds!