Mama2Many4 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Catholic Church is what you're seeking. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Martin Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Authoritarianism is going to come down to the individual church. You will find priests and pastors of all stripes who think that they know The Truth, and that you have no place if you can't see it the same way. You'll find that in conservative, liberal, and unspecified denominations. It's more about an individual leader's lack of humility than doctrine. I would just start visiting place and meeting priests and pastors. Find out which ones are comfortable with questions. And be careful that they're truly comfortable with questions, not just gleeful about a particular question you have because they think you should be of the position that you seem to be headed towards. Also figure out what your personal non-negotiables are. Say, for example, that you want to go to a church where inquiry is welcome but where there is general agreement on, say, the divinity of Christ. Some churches, despite what their statements of faith might say, do not teach Christ's divinity, so you'd want to figure that out in advance. I've known plenty of priests or pastors willing to use weasel words to try to please everybody and avoid confrontation while they personally belief and strongly push a particular viewpoint. Better to find someone who says, "I believe x," unequivocally but is fine discussing the idea with others who disagree or "I don't know," rather than someone who obfuscates. It's tricky. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 You sound like a Catholic to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfatherslily Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 :iagree: It meets every one. Also if you have any questions please feel free to ask us converts...we have definitively had to wrestle through some of the more foreign concepts. :D I love this Icon. Icons in EO teach. This one takes place after Jesus dies and he is conquering death and the grave. Look carefully at His hands and how he is holding on to Adam and Eve (the first victims of death). I've heard that Adam and Eve are not depicted with the halo of the saint because they are representative of humanity. Because they are not known with 100% certainty to be historical people. I could have heard that wrong, but it makes sense. I really enjoyed on the Catholic view of hell. It seems that Orthodoxy is similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2Many4 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I've heard that Adam and Eve are not depicted with the halo of the saint because they are representative of humanity. Because they are not known with 100% certainty to be historical people. I could have heard that wrong, but it makes sense. I really enjoyed on the Catholic view of hell. It seems that Orthodoxy is similar. All lineage can be traced back to an actual Adam and Eve, so I would say it's historical. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Shiny, I just wanted to say I love your open, honest question. Thank you for being bold enough to ask. Three years ago this month, I started exploring Eastern Orthodoxy after having numerous questions about me evangelical faith arise. My questions had more to do with history and tradition (we were longing for tradition and a cycle of feasts like what we saw in the Bible), but being open to asking the hard questions really changed our lives for the better. Best to you on your journey. If you have any questions about Orthodoxy, or would like a good link for lots of basic, informational articles, feel free to PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 As a convert, I have yet to see the Catholic Church being authoritarian. No one is expected to believe anything just because the pastor/bishop/whoever's in charge tells her so. Um, certain things ARE required to be believed on the authority of the church, including the Immaculate Conception. That is on the authority of the Pope, as declared ex cathedra. I am not knocking the religion, I converted to Catholicism myself at one point, but it does depend on authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfatherslily Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 All lineage can be traced back to an actual Adam and Eve, so I would say it's historical. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution Thanks, I'll read the link later. Like I said, I could have that information mixed up. It's a fascinating topic, but certainly one for another thread, another day :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Um, certain things ARE required to be believed on the authority of the church, including the Immaculate Conception. That is on the authority of the Pope, as declared ex cathedra. I am not knocking the religion, I converted to Catholicism myself at one point, but it does depend on authority. I think part of the issue may be the definition of authority and authoritarian. I think you can have and use authority without being authoritarian. I see authoritarian as the old "believe it or else" mentality. As Catholics, we have the room to ask questions. We are called to investigate things and understand our faith. We are also given the time, grace and patience to do that for ourselves. Is the Church permissive? No. There are ultimately standards that we are held to. But does the Church allow for the period of struggling, doubting, reasoning and questioning? Absolutely. I have been in churches before became Catholic where the response to every question was "because I said so" -- doused with a big spray of "and you must have no faith or you never would have asked.". That is not the case at all now. I see the Catholic Church as being Authoritative, not Authoritarian. Edited November 21, 2011 by Asenik Because autocorrect is not my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Posting so I can find this thread again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleWMN Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Anglican? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have recently come to the conclusion that by following God and the bible, rather than following religion of any kind is the best for me. I feel religion is so full of man, that God often gets left out and is just the sideline of all of man's doctrines. But that is me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Can I just say that every time I see this thread, my brain first goes to "I'm pretty sure there aren't any Christian demons." EVERY TIME!! You'd think after a few double takes it wouldn't happen anymore. I hope you find what you're looking for. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Anglican/Episcopal. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Except for #1 on her list (which she also states is "non negotiable") isn't within LDS beliefs, as we believe in a Godhead (3 Persons working in complete unison to fulfill the Father's ultimate plan) rather than a Trinity.... By the technical definition of "trinitarian" you're right, we don't fit #1. However, we very much believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost as making up the ultimate governing "body" over all things. We do see them as three divine beings in unity rather than one divine being in division, and we call the collective group "the Godhead" rather than "the Trinity". So yes, there are some significant ontological differences. But we do insist that Jesus is the same divine being known as Jehovah in the Old Testament, and that he lived a fully human mortal life. We view Jesus as the Only Begotten Son and Savior of the world. We definitely do not think of Jesus as "only a wise teacher" or as having "earned" Godhood by his actions on earth, as some people do. So there are differences and similarities to Trinitarianism. For some people the differences are insurmountable. Other people see it as splitting hairs. (And in my own opinion the LDS view fits MUCH better with the Bible.) So I guess it depends on which bits are non-negotiable and whether there might be wiggle room on others. Though the LDS church's position on the subject is definitely non-negotiable. Here's how I'd break it down for the LDS church. Yeah, it's me and my seemingly never ending church issues/questions. I was thinking maybe evangelicalism just isn't a good fit for where I'm at spiritually. If I list the main points of where I'm at theologically and doctrinally, will you help me figure out a denomination that might fit? It doesn't haven't to be a perfect fit. OK, here we go: (1) Trinitarian, full divinity and humanity of Jesus. (non-negotiable) [see above.] (2) Uses the Bible but doesn't worship it or equate it with Jesus. In other words, doesn't call it God's Word-capital-W (which, IMO, belongs only to Jesus, according to Scripture). God's word(s)-lower-case-w is fine. This may be a picky thing, but it bugs me. [i hear ya on this one. Jesus is the Word, and it bugs me when people seem to be worshipping the Bible too--though I definitely cherish the Bible as a record of God's revelations to man and dealings with man over the centuries. I think you'd find the LDS church's position on the Bible very compatible. However, the LDS church does have other books which it regards as scripture, such as the Book of Mormon, which is regarded as a record similar to the Bible but kept by a group of people who lived in the Americas, and the Doctrine and Covenants, which is regarded as a compilation of revelations from God given to a prophet in the 19th century. I love that God continues to speak to His people whenever and wherever they live, and I've read these books and believe they are what they claim to be. But I know that many, many people reject the idea out of hand, and any books other than the Bible being regarded as scripture is an absolute deal-breaker.] (3) I hold an OE Creationist point of view, and would prefer a denom that is open to a variety of perspectives on this issue. [Me too. The LDS church doesn't take a position on the age of the earth, and I've witnessed, and been part of, many interesting friendly discussions on the topic among members of my faith. You are likely to find individual people who take a very firm stance in one direction or another on this within the church, but the church itself is very much open to differing views.] (4) I'm not sure about hell, and I'm not sure that it's as black-and-white as I've been raised to believe. ("Accept Jesus" and you go go heaven. Don't accept Jesus - for any reason at all, incl. having never heard - and you're going to hell. ) I just think it's more complex than that, because condemning someone to hell who has never heard is neither merciful nor is it just. And yet both mercy and justice are attributes of God. So, as far as church goes, I would like to be a part of a faith community that at least acknowledges the gray area, kwim? [The LDS church's teachings on this are definitely not what you were raised with. In LDS belief, after a person dies, that person's spirit goes to a "spirit world" where it stays while waiting for resurrection. There's a sort of preliminary judgment there, such that the righteous dwell there in a state of happiness (which we typically refer to as "paradise") and the wicked dwell there in a state of misery (which we call "spirit prison" or "hell"). We don't generally go around saying this or that person will go to this or that place, btw, that's up to God, not us. At any rate, during this time of waiting, those who have not had the opportunity to hear the gospel will get that chance. As you say, God is both just and merciful. Later there will be a final judgment and resurrection. In the resurrection a person's spirit is returned to their body, which is renewed and perfected and made immortal. The final judgment is when the person is assigned to their eternal fate--after everyone has had a chance to hear the gospel and accept or reject Christ. At that point LDS belief is also a bit more nuanced than the belief you described. We beleive that "heaven" has three main divisions, or "kingdoms", or levels of glory or closeness to God. We also believe in an enernal "hell", which is where Satan and his angels dwell, and which we usually call "outer darkness" to differentiate it from the spirit prison "hell" that is temporary. People can go to that eternal hell, but it's a good bit harder than what a typical evangelical church will teach about how one goes to hell. ] (5) Not heavily authoritarian. I won't believe anything just because the pastor/bishop/whoever's in charge tells me so. [This could be a sticky point, depending. The LDS church definitely teaches that people should not just take the word of the person in charge for anything, and in my experience strongly encourages people to think for themselves, study for themselves, pray for themselves, and seek God's guidence for themselves and expect actual answers from God through the Holy Ghost. It certainly urges people to seek a confirmation from God for the things they are taught by church leaders. However, we do regard the president of the church as a prophet and our 12 apostles as apostles in the same sense as the prophets and apostles in the Bible, so we do tend to give their words rather a lot of weight--at least when they're speaking AS a prophet or apostle, not so much if they're just giving a personal opinion on who might win the game this weekend or whatever. The church does have some very strong core teachings that are really not negotiable or open to interpretation--they are what they are and that's IT. However, there's a lot of tolerance for people who are still learning, and even for people who disagree as long as they don't try to push their points of disagreement on other church members or pass them off as church doctrine. And there's a lot of "gray area" on things where the church just doesn't take a stance one way or another and people are welcome to believe whatever they want on the subject. ] (6) Liturgical. Weekly (or at least frequent) communion. I want to feel more tied to the generations of Christians who have gone before me. I don't need everything new and contemporary and shiny. (This preference is totally optional, but I just think it would be a nice bonus) [We do have communion weekly (we usually call it "the sacrament"). I wouldn't say our weekly church services are "liturgical". There is a general structure to the meetings, but not the sort of pre-scripted call/response kind of thing you'd see in, say, a Catholic mass or a Episcopal high church service. LDS temple worship is more like a liturgical kind of experience, but that's separate from weekly worship services, where the sacrament is administered. We consider ourselves very strongly connected to the early Christian church, but not so much to subsequent Christian traditions that developed later. We do believe that a succession of apostolic authority is necessary, and that such authority is present in the church. And although we don't feel at all "connected" with later Christian traditions, the church definitely has a VERY strong element of connectedness to previous generations of PEOPLE, particularly through family lines, and there is an especially strong emphasis on this in temple worship. As far as "new and shiny", I suppose it depends on what you would consider new and shiny versus old and traditional. For example, our church buildings are generally fairly modern in design and built with many modern conveniences, but we stick pretty tenuously to hymns, and don't really do the contemporary music thing. You will not be assaulted with special effects in an LDS sacrament meeting. But you're not going to be meeting in a 200 year old cathedral either. Oh, and as an added bonus, there's no hugging or handshaking as part of the service (that was you, wasn't it?)] (7) Doesn't major on the minors. There are *so many* nitpicky areas that we could debate about. I don't want a church that tries to dictate every belief, even in areas that I believe are non-essential. [Probably there's some room here for difference of opinion as to what is "essential" and what is not, but my experience is that the LDS church is very flexible on the things I consider "non-essential", and only rigid in areas I think should be non-negotiable. But that's me. YMMV.] Does a denomination like this even exist? FWIW, it doesn't have to fit every point. Edited November 21, 2011 by MamaSheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have recently come to the conclusion that by following God and the bible, rather than following religion of any kind is the best for me. I feel religion is so full of man, that God often gets left out and is just the sideline of all of man's doctrines. But that is me. We kinda did the same thing for a long time. I mean, we went to church (quite a few different ones, actually), but we felt like we needed to figure it all out on our own because we were dissatisfied wherever we went. We thought we were doing okay with this method, but our problem was that the practices/beliefs we came up with was "full of man," too -- they were full of US! And who were we to come up with the right way to learn about and worship God? We realized we longed for the Church to be the Church and to teach us (it is, after all, the "pillar and foundation of the truth"); we grew weary of making it up as we went along. That's how we saw it anyway, YMMV of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yeah, it's me and my seemingly never ending church issues/questions. I was thinking maybe evangelicalism just isn't a good fit for where I'm at spiritually. If I list the main points of where I'm at theologically and doctrinally, will you help me figure out a denomination that might fit? It doesn't haven't to be a perfect fit. OK, here we go: (1) Trinitarian, full divinity and humanity of Jesus. (non-negotiable) (2) Uses the Bible but doesn't worship it or equate it with Jesus. In other words, doesn't call it God's Word-capital-W (which, IMO, belongs only to Jesus, according to Scripture). God's word(s)-lower-case-w is fine. This may be a picky thing, but it bugs me. (3) I hold an OE Creationist point of view, and would prefer a denom that is open to a variety of perspectives on this issue. (4) I'm not sure about hell, and I'm not sure that it's as black-and-white as I've been raised to believe. ("Accept Jesus" and you go go heaven. Don't accept Jesus - for any reason at all, incl. having never heard - and you're going to hell. ) I just think it's more complex than that, because condemning someone to hell who has never heard is neither merciful nor is it just. And yet both mercy and justice are attributes of God. So, as far as church goes, I would like to be a part of a faith community that at least acknowledges the gray area, kwim? (5) Not heavily authoritarian. I won't believe anything just because the pastor/bishop/whoever's in charge tells me so. (6) Liturgical. Weekly (or at least frequent) communion. I want to feel more tied to the generations of Christians who have gone before me. I don't need everything new and contemporary and shiny. (This preference is totally optional, but I just think it would be a nice bonus) (7) Doesn't major on the minors. There are *so many* nitpicky areas that we could debate about. I don't want a church that tries to dictate every belief, even in areas that I believe are non-essential. Does a denomination like this even exist? FWIW, it doesn't have to fit every point. Eastern Orthodoxy...we accept mystery and unknowns ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jana Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sorry the Catholic Church fails requirements 3,4,and 5. But the Episcopal Church, on the other hand, meets them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) I've heard that Adam and Eve are not depicted with the halo of the saint because they are representative of humanity. Because they are not known with 100% certainty to be historical people. I could have heard that wrong, but it makes sense. I really enjoyed on the Catholic view of hell. It seems that Orthodoxy is similar. Holy cow. I should edit the comments in my OP about hell and put a link to this video with the phrase "WHAT HE SAID" That's *exactly* where my ponderings and prayers have been leading me. BTW, I appreciate his humility and how respectful he is of other points of view. That's very important to me. I believe that none of us has it *exactly right.* If we did we'd be God and obviously we're not. We're all on a journey, and I appreciate displays of respect and consideration to fellow travelers. Make sense? ETA: OK, watched a few more of his youtube videos. He is opinionated, but manages to disagree without being disagreeable. I enjoy a good discussion (even - or especially? - when I don't totally agree with the speaker) and am enjoying hearing his POV. Edited November 21, 2011 by shinyhappypeople Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I believe that none of us has it *exactly right.* If we did we'd be God and obviously we're not. We're all on a journey, and I appreciate displays of respect and consideration to fellow travelers. Make sense? It makes perfect sense. :001_smile: I agree completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnlvr Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hey, there's an app (err, quiz) for that! http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Quizzes/BeliefOMatic.aspx Even my mother took it (she's Catholic) and she scored Catholic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upward Journey Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Anglican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Holy cow. I should edit the comments in my OP about hell and put a link to this video with the phrase "WHAT HE SAID" That's *exactly* where my ponderings and prayers have been leading me. BTW, I appreciate his humility and how respectful he is of other points of view. That's very important to me. I believe that none of us has it *exactly right.* If we did we'd be God and obviously we're not. We're all on a journey, and I appreciate displays of respect and consideration to fellow travelers. Make sense? Fr. Robert Barron (from the video) has put out a 10 part series called Catholicism that is being shown (in parts) on EWTN and PBS stations. All the episodes that I have seen have been wonderful. They would be an excellent start for anyone interested in learning about the Catholic faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sorry. Posted in haste. Poor wording. I'm not an expert on the Catholic Church but was under the impression that Canon law has become much more lax lately and the Church was beginning to look less authoritarian in their stances on certain issues. I know, at least, in my church, different priests have, over the years, come out with very different views on, say, abortion and evolution among other things. Of course, this could just be a reflection of my area and not the Church. Evolution is not a doctrinal issue. AFAIK, the Church doesn't have an official position, other than the fact that whether it is YE or OE, God started it. :001_smile: The Church has one position on on abortion: life begins at conception. The end. Any Catholic who believes anything else is in serious doctrinal error. This has never, ever changed. That some priests might have differing opinions doesn't mean the Church has changed; it is that they have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hey, there's an app (err, quiz) for that! http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Quizzes/BeliefOMatic.aspx Even my mother took it (she's Catholic) and she scored Catholic.... I scored 100% Orthodox Quaker. :confused: I resonated with some of the Quaker beliefs listed, but I'm not so sure it's for me. It's worth adding to the list of groups to explore further, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Fr. Robert Barron (from the video) has put out a 10 part series called Catholicism that is being shown (in parts) on EWTN and PBS stations. All the episodes that I have seen have been wonderful. They would be an excellent start for anyone interested in learning about the Catholic faith. Good to know. I'll have to see if I can find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsidian Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I scored 100% Orthodox Quaker. :confused: I resonated with some of the Quaker beliefs listed, but I'm not so sure it's for me. It's worth adding to the list of groups to explore further, though. So did I. I'm equally :001_huh:. Maybe it's because I wasn't a conservative Protestant or Catholic? I'm not sure if they had an option for the less conservative Protestant denominations or for Eastern Orthodoxy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sorry the Catholic Church fails requirements 3,4,and 5. But the Episcopal Church, on the other hand, meets them all. I must beg to differ. Catholics do not have to believe a specific doctrine or dogma about the creation of the universe other than God created it. Other than that one is free to believe in either OE or YE. One can have a belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible. One can be a theistic evolutionist. The Catholic church does acknowledge "the gray area." Asenik said it well with: People who have never had the opportunity in their earthly lives to know and follow Christ, or who were prevented for a myriad of reasons outside their control from doing this, will not be automatically condemned for it. There is room in the great mercy of God for their salvation. What we think of as the path to salvation is the ordinary means of it. But we serve an extraordinary God, who, in his mercy, can and does choose extraordinary means as well. No one is outside his mercy or his justice, and in end, we are all, regardless of our circumstances, dependent on his mercy. With number 5, there is an authority but the church is not authoritarian and legalistic. We are encouraged to question, explore and develop our faith. Many other churches (pastors) stand by a "my way or the highway" theology. There is no room to argue or question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 How does the Catholic church fail 3, 4, and 5? The Catholic church is very *open* to science and most Catholics hold more of a theistic evolution/old earth creation pov - a pov that the Catholic church fully supports. The Catholic Church does not believe non-believers automatically go to hell. Nobody is predestined to go to hell and God can do whatever he wants on that specific issue, as it comes to pass :001_smile: The Catholic church is often portrayed as Authoritarian, but I really have no clue as to why. Sorry the Catholic Church fails requirements 3,4,and 5. But the Episcopal Church, on the other hand, meets them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Belief O Matic came up with 1. Orthodox Quaker (100%) 2. Mainline Conservative Christian (94%) 3. Mainline Liberal Christian (93%) No wonder I am such a mess. I have an obvious spiritual split personality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Can I just say that every time I see this thread, my brain first goes to "I'm pretty sure there aren't any Christian demons." EVERY TIME!! You'd think after a few double takes it wouldn't happen anymore. So do I!:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) All lineage can be traced back to an actual Adam and Eve, so I would say it's historical. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution I'm going to respectfully disagree. YEs, I see it has the Nihil and the Imp, but the pope himself has said that God used evolution. And, all that I have been taught in my RCIA class is how God used evolution. Both EO/YE are accepted within the RCC, and salvation is not hinged on one alone-and neither. This is really not the thread for a YE/OE discussion, no? Edited November 21, 2011 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjmakmom Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Episcopal. Fits every single requirement you have. :iagree::iagree::iagree: And like you, I have tried everything out there. Raised Catholic, been non-denominational, evangelical, Celtic Christian, Baptist, etc. Episcopal meets every point you listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Belief O Matic came up with 1. Orthodox Quaker (100%) 2. Mainline Conservative Christian (94%) 3. Mainline Liberal Christian (93%) No wonder I am such a mess. I have an obvious spiritual split personality! My results: Orthodox Quaker (100%) Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (93%) Seventh Day Adventist (92%) Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (88%) Eastern Orthodox (86%) Roman Catholic (86%) I actually found the quiz kind of frustrating. More than once, there was no answer that really fit my thinking. Guess I have to think this one through on my own. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsidian Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My results: Orthodox Quaker (100%) Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (93%) Seventh Day Adventist (92%) Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (88%) Eastern Orthodox (86%) Roman Catholic (86%) I actually found the quiz kind of frustrating. More than once, there was no answer that really fit my thinking. Guess I have to think this one through on my own. :001_huh: I got the same top three as you, but with 2 and 3 reversed.:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I got the same top three as you, but with 2 and 3 reversed.:001_huh: Well, obviously you are very wise and spiritually mature :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have recently come to the conclusion that by following God and the bible, rather than following religion of any kind is the best for me. I feel religion is so full of man, that God often gets left out and is just the sideline of all of man's doctrines. But that is me. I used to think that, too. Full blown homechurcher. But, as said by Bl. Newman, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." When I went back to read Justin Martyr's letters to Marcus Aureliuis, I recognized a Catholic Mass. And, there's the doctrine of the Real Presence-that Christ is actually present in the Eucharist which is the belief that the first (and many more) martyrs died for. Where Christ himself says we eat of his flesh, and then, when he has the moment to clarify, He uses the word trogain, which means to gnaw. He has the ability to say, whoops, I meant that symbolically, He doesn't. Most 'not doing it man's way' don't believe like that, and then, if you do, you have to ask yourself, by what authority? Who can ask God to change this bread and wine to the body and blood? Me? That guy over there? So you come to apostolic succession, and not many churches have that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Anglican. Is it true that Anglicans are just Protestant Catholics? I remember hearing that once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I found it frustrating too. The wording was not quite what I actually believe on many of them. My results: Orthodox Quaker (100%) Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (93%) Seventh Day Adventist (92%) Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (88%) Eastern Orthodox (86%) Roman Catholic (86%) I actually found the quiz kind of frustrating. More than once, there was no answer that really fit my thinking. Guess I have to think this one through on my own. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I found it frustrating too. The wording was not quite what I actually believe on many of them. :iagree: I got 100% RC or EO (big shock! :D), but I had issues with some of the wording too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have also heard Lutherans describe themselves as "Catholic without the guilt!" :lol: I haven't ever been to a Lutheran church that I can think of, and there are one or two things I would find different than my beliefs, but overall, I think I would fit in. Problem for me is that DH likes the flashy band and casual nature of the modern evangelical church, so not sure I could convince him to go to a more liturgical congregation. We once attended a church where they only sang hymns. But the 4th one, DH leaned over and whispered, "I suppose you know THIS one too!" :D YUP! Dawn Is it true that Anglicans are just Protestant Catholics? I remember hearing that once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristangrace Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Anglican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Belief O Matic came up with 1. Orthodox Quaker (100%) 2. Mainline Conservative Christian (94%) 3. Mainline Liberal Christian (93%) No wonder I am such a mess. I have an obvious spiritual split personality! What on earth is "Orthodox Quaker"?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jana Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Is it true that Anglicans are just Protestant Catholics? I remember hearing that once. There are a lot of conflicts between Anglican/Episcopal Church and Protestantism. Anglican/Episcopalians don't accept the two major tenants of Protestantism: sola scriptura (the Bible is the sole authority, not Church tradition) and sola fide (faith, not works as a means to salvation). So I'm not sure what the phrase even means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My results: 1. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%) 2. Orthodox Quaker (95%) 3. Liberal Quakers (84%) Hmm, I didn't even score Catholic. Yet that's what I am, and quite happy with it. Do I currently believe all that's in the catechism? No, I don't. But I know I'm on a journey, and that I might change stance in the future. I see the catechism as being "theory" and my current life as being "practise". There's a theoretical answer to everything, and there's a practical one, one that I can live with. I have finally reached the point where I can say my practical answer is less than ideal. I started from the viewpoint that I was right, and all the great men and women who came before me, and studied in depth to eventually be able to have a catechism, were all wrong, all of them. Now, I'll admit I'm most likely wrong, (on specific subjects, not on everything), but I go with what I can live with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhopper Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Look at the Anglican Church in North America. There are a lot of conflicts between Anglican/Episcopal Church and Protestantism. Anglican/Episcopalians don't accept the two major tenants of Protestantism: sola scriptura (the Bible is the sole authority, not Church tradition) and sola fide (faith, not works as a means to salvation). So I'm not sure what the phrase even means. Actually.... From the 39 Articles (which express "the fundamental principles of authentic Anglican belief"): Article VI – Of the sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation. HOLY Scriptures containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an of the faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of Holy Scripture, we do understand those Canonical books of the Old and New testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church. And also from the 39 Articles: Article XI Of the Justification of Man: We are accounted righteous before God, only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by faith, and not for our own works or deservings. Wherefore that we are justified by faith only is a most wholesome doctrine, and very full of comfort; as more largely is expressed in the Homily of Justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Is it true that Anglicans are just Protestant Catholics? I remember hearing that once. It also depends on the individual church. Our local Episcopal church is an self-described "Anglo Catholic" parish. I was talking with the Priest/ Rector the other day and he was joking a little about how his services (he was raised Roman Catholic but wanted to marry and be a Priest) were more "Catholic" in feeling than some masses using post-Vatican II Novus Ordo rites. It is liturgical and quite "High Church" for being a small parish. I think most Roman Catholics would feel right at home. But it varies greatly within the diocese. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Look at the Anglican Church in North America. One needs to note that this is an extremely conservative movement that is not in part of the Anglican communion and one that is hostile to the progressive social stands of the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion. Lest anyone be confused by the "name." This is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish ;) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 We kinda did the same thing for a long time. I mean, we went to church (quite a few different ones, actually), but we felt like we needed to figure it all out on our own because we were dissatisfied wherever we went. We thought we were doing okay with this method, but our problem was that the practices/beliefs we came up with was "full of man," too -- they were full of US! And who were we to come up with the right way to learn about and worship God? We realized we longed for the Church to be the Church and to teach us (it is, after all, the "pillar and foundation of the truth"); we grew weary of making it up as we went along. That's how we saw it anyway, YMMV of course! Yes, well we are blessed that we have found a small home church that is following the Bible, so not only are we learning ourselves but with others who have a similar belief. It is great, God has really been opening our eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yes, well we are blessed that we have found a small home church that is following the Bible, so not only are we learning ourselves but with others who have a similar belief. It is great, God has really been opening our eyes. This view goes against the OP's #2 however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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