End of Life Question

[Liz CA]

Should people die in their homes if at all possible???

Our 87 year old aunt is in the hospital diagnosed with lung cancer...Given her age and the type of cancer it's not looking very good.

I am sure she wants to be in her home where she has lived for 65 years, I know I would do anything to get home for my last days.

Someone said, it's better to die in the hospital. You have all the care to the last minute and when they sell your house, they don't have to mention that someone died there.

 

I AM APPALLED. I don't care if someone knows I died in my home. I think people should have the right to decide where they want to spend their last days.

[regentrude]

I think people should have the right to decide where they want to spend their last days.

 

Absolutely. They should have the right to decide about their care, too, and to refuse life prolonging procedures if they are terminally ill.

Both my grandmothers died in their own beds in their own homes, surrounded by family.

 

I do not see the point about somebody dying in a house. I come from Europe where houses are built of stone and intnded to last centuries... I would think it very likely that a person had previously died in pretty much any older house.

[Ellie]

Yes, I think they should. I just don't know how it would always be possible in today's world. :sad:

 

It makes me sad that so many elderly people (including people who aren't all that much older than I am!) live sequestered --age-segregated--in retirement homes and nursing homes and all that. I wish that more of them were welcome and able (and willing) to live with their children, in their own homes.

[aggieamy]

Do you have to disclose that someone died there? That's odd. I wouldn't care if I bought a house that an elderly person who had lived there all their life died in. Now, I might be a little queasy about a house in Amityville but that's a different type of "died".

 

Sorry about your aunt.

[WishboneDawn]

I think there's no set answer except for the one the dying person can provide.

[DusksAngel]

I'm staying with my grandmother for just this reason (she has dementia and will otherwise be sent to a nursing home). And I helped my mother and her care for my grandfather til the night he died. They wanted to stay in their home for as long as they could or til death.

[Ellie]

Yes, you do.

 

I haven't seen this in writing, though, so it could be an urban legend.

[twoforjoy]

Personal decision, definitely. I can see why somebody would want to die in their home, but I can also see how, in our culture especially, many people would be more comfortable finishing out a serious illness in the hospital.

[Momof3littles]

Personal decision, definitely. I can see why somebody would want to die in their home, but I can also see how, in our culture especially, many people would be more comfortable finishing out a serious illness in the hospital.

 

:iagree:

 

If I am faced w/ the decision and am a candidate for hospice care, I think I personally would prefer to go that route (remain in my home with hospice care). I can't be 100 percent certain that is what I'll want when faced with it.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Momof3littles

[Liz CA]

I am not sure since disclosure laws vary from state to state. I agree with you and Regentrude that pretty much anytime you buy a home that is a few years old, there is a chance someone may have died there.

It would not make a difference to me. We all have to die sometime and somewhere. Our own home is the logical choice in my opinion.

[Danestress]

It's the kind of decision that hospice helps you work through. I would discuss all my concerns with them, if Hospice is involved in her care. On one hand, yes, many people would rather die at home. But there may be powerful pain killers or other medical services for end of life comfort care that are better provided in a hospital. The hospital bed may be easier for her to get in and out of, access to a toilet may be better, etc. I can think of a lot of reasons a person might actually be more comfortable dying in the right hospital. But definitely something that the patient and family have to discuss.

[EJCMom]

Both my mother and father-in-law died of cancer. My mother died in the hospital, my FIL died at home. Both were so heavily medicated to keep them comfortable that they were not conscious. At that point, they didn't honestly know where they were. In principle I think it should be the person's decision, but I think there can be some advantages to dying in the hospital in terms of what they are able to do to keep the person as comfortable as possible. It just depends on the circumstances.

[Cinder]

My grandmother wanted to die at home--she was in the final stages of lung cancer. She'd been living with my (single) uncle for years in his small apartment. G'ma required round-the-clock care and after months Uncle just got tired of it. On top of that the care providers (my mom, aunts, cousins) were also exhausted. They finally convinced G'ma to go into hospice. It was a relief for them because then they could focus on just being together.

 

When our friends' son was dying they asked their other kids how they felt about him dying at home or in hospice. The kids asked for hospice--they couldn't bear the thought of living in the house where their brother died.

 

I agree that each family should decide what's right for them.

[livingnlearning]

I don't mind being in the hospital so I wouldn't mind either way, I would choose whatever I thought was easiest on my family. But if I knew someone that really wanted to be home I would do everything I could to accomodate that. Most people do want to be home.

 

My parents house had the previous owner die in the house and we bought a house once that was haunted. Both cases (different states) the realtors said it part of the disclosure agreement.

 

We found out that an older lady had died in our house of natural causes-she made her presense known but not in a bad scary way at all. It didn't stop us from buying the house.

[Rivka]

It never occurred to me to ask whether someone died in the house we just bought. Who cares? An elderly couple lived there for 40 years, until the husband died and the wife went into assisted living. I love that they had a long and happy life in that house. If he died there, it wouldn't bother me at all. Everyone dies.

 

My personal preference, if I were terminally ill, would be to die at home or in a hospice (depending on care needs) but not in a regular hospital.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Should people die in their homes if at all possible???

Our 87 year old aunt is in the hospital diagnosed with lung cancer...Given her age and the type of cancer it's not looking very good.

I am sure she wants to be in her home where she has lived for 65 years, I know I would do anything to get home for my last days.

Someone said, it's better to die in the hospital. You have all the care to the last minute and when they sell your house, they don't have to mention that someone died there.

 

I AM APPALLED. I don't care if someone knows I died in my home. I think people should have the right to decide where they want to spend their last days.

 

:iagree: Hospice can do wonders to keep the dying comfortable. Hospitals are very expensive places to die. I wish my mom could have died at home, but she did get hospice care in the end, which was a blessing to us all.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Hospice care can be given in the home. One doesn't have to go somewhere to have hospice care. In fact, I never equated the two because I have only known about hospice in the home. My friend's mom is a hospice nurse and she loves the fact that she can help the dying remain at home and help their loved ones during that time. She is one of the most compassionate women I know.

[dirty ethel rackham]

It's the kind of decision that hospice helps you work through. I would discuss all my concerns with them, if Hospice is involved in her care. On one hand, yes, many people would rather die at home. But there may be powerful pain killers or other medical services for end of life comfort care that are better provided in a hospital. The hospital bed may be easier for her to get in and out of, access to a toilet may be better, etc. I can think of a lot of reasons a person might actually be more comfortable dying in the right hospital. But definitely something that the patient and family have to discuss.

 

All of these can be brought into the home for hospice care. Another benefit is that you don't have to deal with 10 interruptions a night from the patient tech moving the patient to the nurse checking vitals, to the janatorial staff taking out the garbage, to the nurses chatting in the hallway.

[Liz CA]

All of these can be brought into the home for hospice care. Another benefit is that you don't have to deal with 10 interruptions a night from the patient tech moving the patient to the nurse checking vitals, to the janatorial staff taking out the garbage, to the nurses chatting in the hallway.

 

Exactly why I feel our aunt will be much more comfortable at home. Hospice can organize palliative care and she is surrounded by her familiar objects.

I can see that in extreme cases hospitalization may be required but I really hope we can manage at home.

[Chris in VA]

It's very individual. I wish my brother could have died at home--he really, really wanted to go home. Dsil decided to keep him in the hospital (he had lymphoma) because she couldn't bear the idea of him dying at home. I know it was ok for her to do this, but it just broke my heart, and I can't think too long on it or I either get mad at her or cry.

She's a rather squeamish person when it comes to "natural things." She thought breast feeding would be gross, so she didn't. She won't have pets because they poo and pee. I just thought it wouldn't extend to the death thing.

[Stratford]

It's a personal decision, of course, but it would be my preference, especially with everything that can be done with home hospice. I'm a nurse and I've cared for dying patients in the hospital many times. As much as you try, it's not the same as being home.

 

I heard a saying once that said that a house isn't a home until it has seen a birth, a marriage, and a death.

[Liz CA]

I heard a saying once that said that a house isn't a home until it has seen a birth, a marriage, and a death.

 

I like this! The cycle of life.

[LaxMom]

My grandmother died at home. She had round the clock care by us and Hospice. When she passed, we bathed her in rosewater, brushed her hair and changed her into a fresh nightgown while we waited for the hospice nurse to come and make the official pronunciation.

 

When my mother was a real estate agent in MD, she said it was flat out prohibited for them to disclose such information. The only thing she could say, if asked by potential, was that she would encourage them to look through public records if they felt strongly about it. If she disclosed such information, she would lose her license.

 

My house was built in the 1860s. I just assume people have died here. Why would they not have? It's only recently that we have taken birth and death out of the hands of the family and placed it the hands of professionals.

Edited October 10, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse

[FaithManor]

I think that under most circumstances, dying at home is preferable or should be accomodated, but not all.

 

I regret that my father-in-law was not hospitalized. There is something to say for the emotional, physical, and mental health of the caregivers and most of the time, they have no representation...only the wishes of the terminally ill person are respected. Contrary to popular belief, Hospice does not provide round-the-clock- care in every state. My mother in law only received four hrs. of respite care per week. She was on the hook for taking care of FIL 24/7 and he was bed ridden, had to have catheter bags changed, charts done, was a very difficult person to take care of, accused her of abusing him ALL THE TIME AND TO ANY VISITOR WHO CAME because he was losing his mind, etc. It went on for six straight months.

 

Dh and I lived 1400 miles away. Dh could only take two weeks of vacation which he did at month number 4 so his mom could sleep through the night for a stretch and get out of the house. As it was, she used the four hrs. per week of Hospice to grocery shop, pay bills, go to the drug store, and visit her husband's elderly cousin who was also dependent on her for being taken grocery shopping because she couldn't drive and didn't live in an area with public transportation but refused to move to a retirement center (had no children of her own and closest niece or nephew was 2000 miles away). It was horrible.

 

We wanted FIL moved to a nursing home/Hospice facility or the VA; he was eligible. But, FIL made a MASSIVE stink about it, did not care how hard this was on his wife, and every single medical person she came into contact made her feel like a rat's rear for even considering placing him in a facility. The Hospice nurses were positively horrible to her. She was called an ungrateful, self-serving wife for even considering not letting him die at home. DH had WORDS big time with the Hospice people about that.

 

MIL was so exhausted after his death that the family couldn't hold a funeral. My SIL flew down and took some vacation time to assess her mother's health only to conclude that she'd lost a bunch of weight and wasn't an overweight person to begin with, her hair was falling out from the stress, she'd developed high blood pressure which she never knew about because for six months, even if she'd had a major physical problem, she didn't have anyone who could stay with him - or more accurately, that he was willing to stay with - if she had made a doctor's appointment, and some other problems. Thankfully, she pulled through okay though she was never able to go off the blood pressure meds.

 

So, I have very, very mixed feelings about saying that people should always have the right to die at home. I suppose that if they are willing to die alone, then that right should exist for them. But, to insist that others take care of you despite how much care you require, NO. I can't support that. The caregivers should not have their health ruined.

 

My grandmother was placed in an assisted living facility that worked with hospice and had a 24 hr. nurse's aide and a daily practical nurse at the facility. It was a lovely place. It was not my grandmother's first choice by any stretch, but the reality was that my sister lived in Arizona, my brother and his wife had a new baby, I had a child with a heart condition that was not stable, my dad was still working, and that left everything on my mom who develped a health problem from lack of sleep. I was the one that insisted grandma be moved regardless of how she felt about it. I truly believe that this saved my mother from a far worse health crisis.

 

So, I guess that I have to say that anyone's "right" to die at home, does not surpass the rights of family and friends to not have their own health destroyed from accomodating the patient's wishes.

 

Faith

[Impish]

I agree with Faith.

 

There are times when ppl just cannot, for whatever reason, accomodate someone's wish to die at home. That doesn't make them bad, uncaring, or unloving. Sometimes the caregivers simply cannot handle the stress it brings, and their own health suffers badly.

 

The situation has to be 'doable' for all involved. Not everyone has access to round the clock care at home, unless family/friends can manage it.

 

I used to work home care, specializing in palliative care. I've seen, first hand, what it takes in terms of time, energy, emotional fortitude, to manage it. The only thing I didn't have access to was the financial aspect of the level of care.

 

Its simply not possible, regardless of how much someone may want to, for everyone to be able to be at home.

 

And nobody should be made to feel guilty, resented, etc b/c they were unable to do that for a family member.

[littlebug42]

I think that under most circumstances, dying at home is preferable or should be accomodated, but not all.

 

 

So, I have very, very mixed feelings about saying that people should always have the right to die at home. I suppose that if they are willing to die alone, then that right should exist for them. But, to insist that others take care of you despite how much care you require, NO. I can't support that. The caregivers should not have their health ruined.

 

So, I guess that I have to say that anyone's "right" to die at home, does not surpass the rights of family and friends to not have their own health destroyed from accomodating the patient's wishes.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

My aunt wanted to die at home. However, when it came to be near the end of her life, she required more care than her family could provide so they lovingly placed her in a hospice facility. Honestly, my aunt no longer knew the difference. However, my cousins were wracked with guilt over moving her from home. If my life ever comes to this point, I want my family to do whatever they need to do to be able to get through it. It isn't about me at that point but more about the ones that will be left behind.

[higginszoo]

If they want to, they should be able to. I've bought several houses that the elderly residents before us had died in, and it didn't bother me.

 

That being said, dying can be a messy business, there is usually extra equipment, etc. involved with hospice care, and having all of that there while the family is working on grieving ... I personally might choose to stay in the hospital or a hospice facility to spare my family that. My grandfather and my great aunt must have had similar thoughts. Both were told that they were being discharged to hospice and died in the hospital the night before. I'm also pretty sure that my grandfather also chose to go before my grandmother got back to the hospital. He knew that she wouldn't handle it well. My dad was with him, so he wasn't alone, but dad said that it looked like he'd decided it was time and went very quickly.

Edited October 10, 2011 by higginszoo

[Crystal in VA]

I think people should have the right to decide where they want to spend their last days.

 

:iagree:

My grandma did and I am so grateful! She had breast cancer that had spread into her lungs. She was most comfortable at home. We, her family, were with her to take care of her. We were able to make many wonderful memories in those days that I don't believe would've occurred in a hospital setting...just not possible. She had some healthcare people that came in daily to tend to her as well. The care she received was far more than what she would have ever been able to receive in a hospital. She died with so many of her family surrounding her.

[Farrar]

I feel strongly that dying people should be given their wishes on these sorts of matters. Seeing what my mother had to deal with in order to keep her husband home, where he strongly wanted to be, while he was dying just appalled me. At one point, early on, people at the ER were trying to keep them there for PAPERWORK and my step-father, who could no longer speak, had to write on a pad in giant letters and shove it at them that he was dying, his aged parents were visiting and there was no way he was going to waste his time for another three hours on their bureaucratic nonsense. There was a lot of this sort of nonsense, even in their dealings with Hospice.

 

My mother has devoted much of her career to these sorts of issues and works at an institute attached to Duke Divinity School for thinking about care at the end of life. This is a longish article by Atul Gawande that I highly recommend on issues around death and dying.

[Mom22ns]

Both of my parents died in their own bedroom. We were caring for them both on hospice and I was with them both when they died. My father had a severe stroke and was rarely coherent afterwards speaking only a few slurred words. When he got home into his bedroom, he grabbed by hand and pulled me down to him and said "thank you!". It was the clearest thing he said from the time of the stroke until he died.

 

People should die where they are comfortable and want to be.

[kalanamak]

 

I AM APPALLED. I don't care if someone knows I died in my home. I think people should have the right to decide where they want to spend their last days.

 

They put thumbscrews on to make you confess someone died there?

 

Death at home can be very good. My mother wanted it and had it. My father asked not to die at home, because he thought he'd "soil" the bed, and didn't want Mother to have to clean it up. He died after 12 hours in a hospice, and he did "soil" the bed. My sister was with him and got him attention every time he needed it, and the meds the nurse gave him were helpful. I gave my mother meds, but if Daddy hadn't been "in care", I would have flown back and make sure he was "topped up".

 

My brother, younger and stronger, needed to be in the hospice to get IV meds. They needed to throw the lot at him to keep him comfortable, as he became delirious.

[Happy]

As far as disclosure of a death...in Texas, a seller does not have disclose a natural death.

 

A murder should be disclosed, but often is 'forgotten.' It depends on how high profile the case became, too. Suicides are a gray area, from what I understand.

 

If the house had something to do with the death (like the second floor caved in...) that must be disclosed.

 

People are free to die peacefully at home.

[BigMamaBird]

My Grandma came to live with us when I was 16. She was in the terminal stages of Cancer and there wasn't much left that she was willing to do in terms of treatment. It was a real shock to an "invincible" teenager to witness a death firsthand. Caregivers coming in at all hours, grieving relatives saying goodbyes, very personal bodily functions going haywire. But in the end, she was surrounded by people who loved her and would have done anything for her.

 

Our culture sanitizes death too much. It's part of life. If someone wants to die at home and has a support system that's willing to be lovingly involved, I say they should get their wish.

 

I was never creeped out by "oooh! Grandma died here, now the house is freaky!"

[DB in NJ]

My mother just died in May. She also had lung cancer, but she died from complications from the surgery to remove part of her lung.

 

She lived with us. I can absolutely say without a shadow of a doubt that I am glad she did NOT die at home. I'd have to sell the house. There is no way I could go into her room. It was and continues to be difficult enough to have the house the way it was the day she left for surgery.

 

I have images in my head that keep flashing of her in the hospital. I am so glad that those images are of her in a hospital and not in her room.

 

I honestly don't think I could take it.

[LibraryLover]

.

Edited October 11, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Unicorn.]

I agree w/ you. I think your aunt should go home, and as far is care is concerned, Hospice is wonderful. As for disclosure on selling, I don't think you have to disclose a natural death, only things like homicide/suicide.

[Denisemomof4]

my dad died in the hospital. It felt so intrusive to have people checking in on us, seeing us cry, etc. Then it felt so cold to have to wait around to sign papers, etc. I know he was finally comfortable, since the facility he was living in (with a fully sound mind) totally neglected him. So I was thankful for his comfort. Still, it just felt so.... I don't know.... impersonal?

 

I brought my mother home to live out her final months here. She finally got the excellent care EVERYONE deserves. When she was placed on Hospice, I learned how to medicate her, etc. Her final months, and her death, were so wonderful, so peaceful. I loved the privacy, and I loved that for all of us taking care of her, could be in comfort, take showers, eat, rest, etc. when necessary. By far it was a better scenario.

 

I hope I could die in my home, but I realize that it's a huge undertaking. If dh couldn't care for me, I'd understand completely, because I know how extremely difficult and exhausting it is.

 

I never even considered having to list that someone died in my home.:001_huh:

[Denisemomof4]

I agree w/ you. I think your aunt should go home, and as far is care is concerned, Hospice is wonderful. As for disclosure on selling, I don't think you have to disclose a natural death, only things like homicide/suicide.

 

:iagree:I thought it was only homicide.....

[momtotkbb]

I think it should be the persons desire if at all possible. We cared for dfil in his and my mil's home for 9 months with the assistance of Hospice. It was difficult at time, my dc experience things I didn't think I wanted them to see, but in the end, as we've discussed it over the years (he passed in 2007) none of us regret helping him to stay at home. He had spent over a month in the hospital and HATED every minute of it - even when he wasn't in his right mind fully he knew he wanted to go home.

 

My father had non-hodgkins lymphoma and I know would have preferred to die at home. But, he ended up being admitted to the hospital for complications after chemo - no one expected him to die when he did. They sedated him and placed him on a vent with the intention of removing it a few days later after the antibiotics had taken effect. But, it didn't happen that way - it was horrible to watch the the machines ticking down his last breath/heart beat, to say good-bye in a sterile room w/ strangers watching our every move, deciding how long we could stay in his room, and the wires and tubes every where.

 

I just lost my mom August 18 - she died in her sleep at home with me in her bed beside her hospital bed. She had slept in her bed until late on the 17th when she asked to move. She had pancreatic cancer and had been hospitalized for a month due to complications to a chemo procedure on her liver. While she was in the hospital all she could talk about was wanting to go home - home to see her things, to sit in her kitchen, to sit on the porch and watch the birds at the feeders, etc. There were some things more difficult at home but a few days after bringing her home we took her back to the Dr. and she told him she wanted no more treatment and he arranged for Hospice. They came that evening - brought her a bed, a bedside commode, walker, oxygen, bedside table, etc. They even sent an aide each day to make sure she could get up and into the shower bec that was important to her. They were avail to us 24 hours a day and would bring anything we needed. After a couple days her pain grew worse and they were able to speak to the Dr. and get her more relief. We never expected she would go so quickly - the Dr's had said several months still. But, I spoke with her at 2:30am to offer her her meds and at 5:30 when I got up she had passed in her sleep. Hospice nurses and social workers immediately came - the handled everything for me and all I my dc and I had to do was spend as much time w/ her as we wanted before the funeral home to her. Hospice stayed as long as I wanted and spent time talking to each child that wanted to talk, etc.

 

With both my dfil and mom I thought I would feel weird sleeping in the houses again, going into those rooms, etc. But for me the reality is that I felt much less stress and much fewer nightmares w/ both of them than I've had over daddy in the hospital. It isn't any easier to lose them - but I know that there final wishes happened as they wanted and they died w/ their loved ones and in their own surroundings.

[TranquilMind]

Should people die in their homes if at all possible???

Our 87 year old aunt is in the hospital diagnosed with lung cancer...Given her age and the type of cancer it's not looking very good.

I am sure she wants to be in her home where she has lived for 65 years, I know I would do anything to get home for my last days.

Someone said, it's better to die in the hospital. You have all the care to the last minute and when they sell your house, they don't have to mention that someone died there.

 

I AM APPALLED. I don't care if someone knows I died in my home. I think people should have the right to decide where they want to spend their last days.

Yes, of course people should be at home if that is what they want.

 

How nuts to worry if someone died there. Someone has died in every spot in the nation at some point. Yep, right where ya'll are sitting.

 

It is true that California requires a landlord or seller to tell all prospective applicants that someone died in the property for the next three years.

 

Crazy. But true.

[TranquilMind]

I think it should be the persons desire if at all possible. We cared for dfil in his and my mil's home for 9 months with the assistance of Hospice. It was difficult at time, my dc experience things I didn't think I wanted them to see, but in the end, as we've discussed it over the years (he passed in 2007) none of us regret helping him to stay at home. He had spent over a month in the hospital and HATED every minute of it - even when he wasn't in his right mind fully he knew he wanted to go home.

 

My father had non-hodgkins lymphoma and I know would have preferred to die at home. But, he ended up being admitted to the hospital for complications after chemo - no one expected him to die when he did. They sedated him and placed him on a vent with the intention of removing it a few days later after the antibiotics had taken effect. But, it didn't happen that way - it was horrible to watch the the machines ticking down his last breath/heart beat, to say good-bye in a sterile room w/ strangers watching our every move, deciding how long we could stay in his room, and the wires and tubes every where.

 

I just lost my mom August 18 - she died in her sleep at home with me in her bed beside her hospital bed. She had slept in her bed until late on the 17th when she asked to move. She had pancreatic cancer and had been hospitalized for a month due to complications to a chemo procedure on her liver. While she was in the hospital all she could talk about was wanting to go home - home to see her things, to sit in her kitchen, to sit on the porch and watch the birds at the feeders, etc. There were some things more difficult at home but a few days after bringing her home we took her back to the Dr. and she told him she wanted no more treatment and he arranged for Hospice. They came that evening - brought her a bed, a bedside commode, walker, oxygen, bedside table, etc. They even sent an aide each day to make sure she could get up and into the shower bec that was important to her. They were avail to us 24 hours a day and would bring anything we needed. After a couple days her pain grew worse and they were able to speak to the Dr. and get her more relief. We never expected she would go so quickly - the Dr's had said several months still. But, I spoke with her at 2:30am to offer her her meds and at 5:30 when I got up she had passed in her sleep. Hospice nurses and social workers immediately came - the handled everything for me and all I my dc and I had to do was spend as much time w/ her as we wanted before the funeral home to her. Hospice stayed as long as I wanted and spent time talking to each child that wanted to talk, etc.

 

With both my dfil and mom I thought I would feel weird sleeping in the houses again, going into those rooms, etc. But for me the reality is that I felt much less stress and much fewer nightmares w/ both of them than I've had over daddy in the hospital. It isn't any easier to lose them - but I know that there final wishes happened as they wanted and they died w/ their loved ones and in their own surroundings.

I'm sorry about your loss.