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About the boy voted out of his classroom -


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Very informative -- I still think the teacher was wrong. I don't know many 5yo who would be able to handle the situation of having peers say what they didn't like about him and vote him out (even if it were for a day). I had a teacher who ridiculed me publicly in the 6th grade (for writing a class play of all things), I didn't handle it well at 12... At five, I would have been a puddle.

 

The mom knew her child had some sort of issues, and was trying to get help for the situation. It sounds like the teacher was not prepared to handle a child with these types of issues (was this child right by her desk? I don't recall).

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Thanks for posting this link. It was a long report and very thorough. It has to be hard to handle a special needs child in a classroom without an aide. The needs of one needs to be in balance with the needs of many. While I understand how she thought that the boy might respond better to the thoughts and feelings of his peers, I don't think that it was appropriate.

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My God, he's *5* for Pete's sake! And autistic! Almost 20% of our current population of kids have some form of neurologic problem. Can we *not* manage to get/train *someone* to appropriately care for these poor kids????

 

I'd be mean, too, if I were a parent trying to navigate the horribly frustrating world of autism and sent my child to school where he is routinely "handled" by a police officer. He's

*5*!!!!!!!

 

Little boys pick their noses and put their shoes on the wrong feet - WHEN THEY'RE *NOT* AUTISTIC!!!!! Of course he does those things which are perfectly typical for autism. Can someone get a CLUE ALREADY?????

 

So it's just perfectly acceptable to "hate" those with autism, who exhibit the normal autistic behaviours of kicking others, etc.? It's okay to belittle them, resent them, and treat them worse than we'd allow an animal to be treated - EVEN THOUGH THAT SCHOOL SYSTEM MAY BE GETTING 20K PER YEAR FOR HIM JUST BECAUSE HE IS THERE AND AUTISTIC? Hello????? Hello????? That money is SUPPOSED to be used to hire someone to specifically help and redirect him from inappropriate behaviours into those that are more appropriate.

 

In all of our school district here, in the entire almost 10 years that I've lived here, I know of ONE autistic child who has received appropriate assistance through his public school experience. Not one other child I know of, whether labeled as autistic or with some other neurological spectrum disorder, has EVER received appropriate assistance while at school, despite all the money that pours into the system because of them.....

 

I have NO SYMPATHY. The money IS there. It is NOT being used for its intended purpose (like most money we pour into our vast bureaucratic systems)..... Geesh!!!!! He's *5*!!!!

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Wow, how does the school get $20K for him? Dh has a school specifically for physically disabled and autistic students, and they get just a little over the amount they get for non-special-education students. The students "cost" way more than the per pupil amount received for them. Maybe it varies by state.

 

There is a bigger problem here. Legislation that encourages "least restrictive environments" forces schools to place students with disabilities in regular classrooms with teachers who are not trained to help them, often because the parents threaten to sue if they don't. These teachers are sometimes resentful of these students, the students don't get the help they need, and it is a bad situation for all involved.

 

I found the report interesting, especially the interviews with the other students.

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This whole thing is just so sad...the one thing I thought is how proud I would have been if one of my kids had been one of the two who voted "no" or the one kid that the boy said is his friend and stood up for him. That's gotta be an indicator of some strong moral character...to do the right thing in kindergarten, despite pressure from the rest of the class or your teacher.

 

Maybe this is just my silver lining view on this story....

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I found it interesting that after all those kids agreed that there was mental abuse, there was a finding of "no abuse"....

 

I'll ask my autism mom friends about how much the schools get here and get back to you with real numbers as I just pulled that one out of my hat for purposes of effect for my frustrated rant....

 

Yes, I think that the kids are integrated here, too, but they are *supposed* to have an aide assigned to them that moves with them throughout the day. ONE boy I know here actually ever got that and his aide was absolutely fabulous. If all the kids who needed them had someone even half like her, there wouldn't be this sort of problem.....

 

My problem with all this is that anybody with half a brain should know by now (it's been almost 20 years that this business has been going on with autism spectrum stuff accelerated) what some basic autism behaviours are and how to deal with them. Gee, he does things seeking attention when he's not getting any, over and over again - do we see a pattern here? How can we accommodate this? How can we integrate the classroom to make the kids love and support this kid - and HELP him - instead of hating and ridiculing him? How can we use them to help moderate his behaviours, which also gives them experience in working with others that they can use all their lives? Can we all try to begin to understand what might make him exhibit a behaviour like eating crayons and what we can do to redirect him from this? This child is obviously extremely bright as he understood everything that had been done to him and FELT VERY SAD..... And so do I, so do I.....

 

We have a young man who is autistic who does a ton of stuff with us throughout the school year. He often rides with me to go out to lunch, etc. During some times of year, he may have a runny nose and he may swipe at his nose with his hand and make a mess, etc. How hard is it to hand him a kleenex and say, "use this"? Or, "wipe your nose with this, please"? Geesh - be nice. Does anyone choose to be autistic?

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I thought I had read in one of the articles that this boy's autism was just diagnosed the same week as the incident? If this is true, then the teacher may not have even been aware that his behavior was more than just bad behavior. Also, the school would not have known that he and the teacher needed special help. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

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That's a good point, and autism often doesn't begin to get "officially" diagnosed until around age 4-6, but there are enough indicators of standard sorts of behaviours (which it sounds as if he had plenty of) that professionals should be able to tell that these kids are likely autistic - official diagnosis or not - and act accordingly.

 

The problem is, there is *still* no protocol for appropriately handling these kids in our schools, even though numbers went from a 1 in 10,000 incidence to about a 1 in 150 incidence for the most serious cases (full blown autism) over the course of less than 20 years....

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It's absolutely uncalled for! Okay - a child misbehaves and is not neurologically challenged, is it okay even then to treat the child this way? Nope. Humiliating doesn't teach, it hurts.

 

I have an asperger's son who could be in that boy's shoes... fortunately, his teachers and school staff are very educated and caring and would never allow for that. Goodness, teachers should be trusted with the care and teaching of children!!

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My son has autism Anytime the ps is going through the evaluations the teacher and aids as well are presnt with the therapists. They also have their own meetings to discuss educational strategies and goals. What this teacher did was horrific. It takes months for eval's in the ps she knew every step of the way. It is horrible to mistreat any child at all but one who already has issues is too hard to even believe she works with children. She should not be near them.

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Can't stay in his seat. Wants attention. Eats boogers, paper and crayons. So much of his behavior is NORMAL for an active 5 year old. I have heard of 5 year olds who can sit quietly all day, but I confess I have never seen it for myself. Man, even I have a 10 year old who eats paper! All I can say is get that woman away from people's children, and thank goodness for homeschooling.

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I thought I had read in one of the articles that this boy's autism was just diagnosed the same week as the incident? If this is true, then the teacher may not have even been aware that his behavior was more than just bad behavior. Also, the school would not have known that he and the teacher needed special help. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

The first article that I read said that the principal suggested to the mother that she have him evaluated for autism. So the school was aware that he might be autistic, even though there was not yet an official diagnosis.

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EVEN THOUGH THAT SCHOOL SYSTEM MAY BE GETTING 20K PER YEAR FOR HIM JUST BECAUSE HE IS THERE AND AUTISTIC? Hello????? Hello????? That money is SUPPOSED to be used to hire someone to specifically help and redirect him from inappropriate behaviours into those that are more appropriate.

 

In all of our school district here, in the entire almost 10 years that I've lived here, I know of ONE autistic child who has received appropriate assistance through his public school experience. Not one other child I know of, whether labeled as autistic or with some other neurological spectrum disorder, has EVER received appropriate assistance while at school, despite all the money that pours into the system because of them.....

 

I have NO SYMPATHY. The money IS there. It is NOT being used for its intended purpose (like most money we pour into our vast bureaucratic systems)..... Geesh!!!!! He's *5*!!!!

 

 

I agree with you here, but don't believe that the average schoolteacher should be expected to handle special needs children that are that disruptive. The money *should* be spent, I agree, to create positions and bring in additional help or create new, small classes for those children who have issue and are, unfortunately, keeping other children in the average classes from getting the education that *they* deserve as well. This was a lose-lose situation for everyone and I hope it brings the issue to the forefront so that something will be done to bring the needed changes!

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Can't stay in his seat. Wants attention. Eats boogers, paper and crayons. So much of his behavior is NORMAL for an active 5 year old. I have heard of 5 year olds who can sit quietly all day, but I confess I have never seen it for myself.

 

Isn't that the truth! It's pretty bad when even the "professionals" don't know what behavior is typical of a five year old. :glare:

 

This would have been a completely wrong incident without even bringing autism into the picture. Is it ever right to vote a kid out of the classroom?

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My heart hurts for this poor little boy and his family. I have a ds with asbergers. Many of the behaviors described really are normal for kids NOT on the spectrum. But add asbergers and it does make it much more intense. One of the reasons I am so glad we made the decision to homeschool was that I was afraid of this type of scenario, though we made our decision when ds was a baby. I really wish the schools had more resources. All the K classes here have a teacher and an aide, plus parent volunteers so the teacher would not have been alone with the class, she would have had help, even if it wasn't a one on one aide for the child.

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My problem with all this is that anybody with half a brain should know by now (it's been almost 20 years that this business has been going on with autism spectrum stuff accelerated) what some basic autism behaviours are and how to deal with them. Gee, he does things seeking attention when he's not getting any, over and over again - do we see a pattern here? How can we accommodate this? How can we integrate the classroom to make the kids love and support this kid - and HELP him - instead of hating and ridiculing him? How can we use them to help moderate his behaviours, which also gives them experience in working with others that they can use all their lives? Can we all try to begin to understand what might make him exhibit a behaviour like eating crayons and what we can do to redirect him from this? This child is obviously extremely bright as he understood everything that had been done to him and FELT VERY SAD..... And so do I, so do I.....

QUOTE]

 

I wanted to comment on this part, not in a defense of what was done to this child but just as a comment on how little training teachers may have in this area. I have a Masters in Education. One of the required courses was on special education. Not only did we have to cover the whole gamut of topics from IEPs to learning disabilities to mental retardation to autism to physical handicaps (vision and hearing as well as mobility issues) to non-English learners to at risk students, BUT we also had an instructor who simply refused to provide even the most basic information on what might be indicators of various diagnosis or what we might expect from a child with a certain label.

FWIW, she was not only a special ed professional but also the mother of an MR student and a special ed advocate. But her stance was that there were so many variables that she was not willing to even begin to describe what an average student with autism or a learning disability might be like. It was pretty much a situation where she told us that we as teachers would be given an IEP developed by professionals and that our job would just be to follow it.

None of this is a defense of treating a little boy in a savage way. I just wanted to say that it is quite possible for a teacher to have little familiarity with what she should expect from a particular student.

BTW, please forgive any use of out of date terms. This is not a topic that I have kept up with.

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"I wanted to comment on this part, not in a defense of what was done to this child but just as a comment on how little training teachers may have in this area. I have a Masters in Education. "

 

My closest friend since high school has gone back to complete her master's in elementary education. The only thing left to do now is the student teaching a I know for a fact she has has no training on identifying, helping or even treating a special needs child. When it happens she'll be completely and totally unprepared to say the least. Matter fact, since she's never been in a classroom she's completely unprepared for it all! :)

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Thank you for posting this.

 

I have a child who was diagnosed (then undiagnosed) with Asperger's. So something is going on with him. Here is what I know. His teachers in K and 1st did him no favors by being so accepting and nice about his issues. He needed someone to tell him he was being annoying. He needed to be hit over the head with the point that his teachers and classmates were unhappy with his behavior.

 

I am very clear with my son about how his behavior affects me and others. I don't mince words. I am not "nice." He has been home since second grade and his behavior has improved about a million fold (though it took several years).

 

Frankly, I think the teacher might have been on to something. I wonder if/how the kid's behavior would have changed if he had gone back to the classroom.

 

Just my $0.02.

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I am very clear with my son about how his behavior affects me and others. I don't mince words. I am not "nice." He has been home since second grade and his behavior has improved about a million fold (though it took several years). Frankly, I think the teacher might have been on to something. I wonder if/how the kid's behavior would have changed if he had gone back to the classroom.

 

I can see the point of this to a point... but the children weren't telling the child they didn't want him in class because he kicked them -- or he threw things -- or because he was disruptive.

 

They said they didn't like him because he eats boogers, paper, crayons, etc.

 

Making matters worse, the teacher admitted to ignoring the behavior a lot of times. So there was no consistency. I understand that he did these kinds of things to get attention, and the teacher was trying NOT to feed into it. But, to go from ignoring a problem to removing the child from the classroom and nothing in between? Talk about mixed messages.

 

The teacher had a lot to deal with. More than she probably should have. Most teachers DO.

 

But, I feel there are more constructive ways to accomplish what was needed here -- than publicly humiliating a child that way. It became almost a gang-mentality.

 

Children can be beyond cruel to other children -- and IMO this was encouraging an unhealthy mindset -- and setting up the child (and his friend) to be bullied.

 

I can hear the school yard taunts now... "You're friends with the booger-eater -- you must eat boogers too." Or "Teacher doesn't like you, and I don't like you either. No one likes you."

 

If it was okay in the classroom once, why not all the time? Every day. Most 5 year olds would have no understanding why it would be okay to say something like that ONCE in the classroom with the teacher's approval and NOT being able to say it again and again.

 

That would scar any child.

 

Even though parents with children having Autism/Aspergers might not mince words with their child, I doubt they would say things like, "No one likes you. You're gross. I don't like you. We don't want you here."

 

I would wager that most parents in this situation would say things like, "You will not hit me. If you hit me, you will be XXXX." "If you want to play with Fred, you need to share. Fred doesn't like playing with you when you won't share."

 

The first scenario (which is what more or less happened in the classroom), has no constructive purpose other than to shame and humiliate. The last scenario doesn't mince words -- but is constructive.

 

I'm fortunate, I don't have a child with these issues. Mine have more than enough of their own to keep me pulling my hair out.

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Such great comments!

 

I feel so badly for the little boy. And his Mom. His needs are not being met.

 

And I feel bad for the other children - I can't imagine what is must be like to try to learn with constant disruption.

 

I still am finding it hard to believe that the teacher was justified. She may not have known how to handle him, but he has been there all year. Maybe things just came to a head that day? Maybe she felt desperate enough to try something - desperate.

 

I wonder if there is really any right way to handle this. Inclusion? Special ed? Aides? Higher standards? More understanding?

 

So sad. I am thankful that we are homeschooling and I wish that every child could have the personal attention that my children have.

 

:confused:

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While I understand how she thought that the boy might respond better to the thoughts and feelings of his peers, I don't think that it was appropriate.

 

I don't understand that at all. They are *CHILDREN*. I do understand the difficulties of having a special-needs child in her class, but she should have been taking this up with the boy's mother, or her own school administrators, not trying to have *children* help solve the problem.

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I thought I had read in one of the articles that this boy's autism was just diagnosed the same week as the incident? If this is true, then the teacher may not have even been aware that his behavior was more than just bad behavior. Also, the school would not have known that he and the teacher needed special help. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

Sounds like there were enough red flags that something was going on with this kid, beyond typical 5yo stuff. If she deals with kids this age all day long (and assuming this isn't her first year teaching), she should have figured out by now that this kid's behavior was outside the norm, and I would think she would at least be aware of issues like autism and developmental delays. If the child has been diagnosed, chances are at some point the teacher's been asked for her observations of his behaviors in order to help with the diagnosis, so I doubt she had no idea the child was being evaluated.

 

Wendi

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Me-thinks this teacher has seen too many episodes of "Survivor Island" or "Big Brother" or some other such so-called "reality" t.v. Someone explain to me who gave this teacher the o.k. to delegate the fate of a child in her classroom, of which she is supposed to be the authority, to the rest of the students therein? I would think that would be a decision that the teacher, parents, counselor and/or principle would have to agree on, as opposed to a bunch of nose-pickers being trained in "group-think!" Just my .02

:glare:

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No matter how bad this boy's behavior was, hers was worse. She just taught a bunch of 5 year olds how to be bulllies! Picking out a person, encouraging a group of people to be mean to this person for purposes of intimidation - that is bullying! She created an atmosphere of hate! Definitely not leadership material in my book!

 

Sorry for all the exclamation points - having been a victim of bullying for 6 years as a child, this is a very sensitive issue with me. When I first heard this story, I had a very visceral reaction - heart beating faster, face flushed, panic. And this was over 30 years ago.

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Thank you for posting this.

 

I have a child who was diagnosed (then undiagnosed) with Asperger's. So something is going on with him. Here is what I know. His teachers in K and 1st did him no favors by being so accepting and nice about his issues. He needed someone to tell him he was being annoying. He needed to be hit over the head with the point that his teachers and classmates were unhappy with his behavior.

 

I am very clear with my son about how his behavior affects me and others. I don't mince words. I am not "nice." He has been home since second grade and his behavior has improved about a million fold (though it took several years).

 

Frankly, I think the teacher might have been on to something. I wonder if/how the kid's behavior would have changed if he had gone back to the classroom.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

Neurobiology doesn't change simply because one is bullied.

 

Autistic children don't develop the ability to comfortably maintain eye contact due to adults repeatedly grabbing their chin and saying LOOK AT ME! ASD children learn to focus on a person's nose, or a spot between a person's eyebrows. Staring into the eyes of a non-family member is very violating to many autistics.

 

The desire to kick, chew, crumple, or otherwise "stim" also doesn't change due to bullying, restraining, or repeated instructions to "do something else - or else". Stimming is the autistic brain's response to neurologic overload; as in, the lights are too bright (or the fluorescents are humming), the room is too loud, the carpet smells, the pencils are squeaky, the chair is missing a foot... ASD people cannot simply do a quick assessment of these items and pass them by - each item is enough to send the brain into a spiral.

 

So what helps? Age. Patience. Kindness. Learning new tools. And even then, that assumes a person is on the (poorly named) "higher" end of the spectrum. ASD kids on the high end of the IQ scale have been known to simply "fake it", meaning that they simply mimic the behaviors of those around them, even though those behaviors do not come naturally. It (obviously) gets harder as one moves down the scale.

 

It is unreasonable to have expected any 5 year old child (being formally diagnosed ASD is irrelevant) to have a discussion about group behavioral theory in front of a classroom full of children. To expect an ASD child to have one is simply ridiculous; if he was shutting down while sitting alone at his desk, he most certainly would not be able to confront his entire class.

 

Yes, this situation angers me. For all of the "progressive" talk in education circles, "differently thinking" children are still being pigeon-holed instead of directed towards their potential. It is sad, and it hasn't changed since 1944 when Hans Asperger first came out with his diagnosis.

 

 

asta

 

/rant

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I am inclined to think that she had already got to the administrators and parent... I had a principal who encouraged us to do this sort of democracy in the classroom sort of discipline. She offered NO, ZERO, ZiLCH assistance when it cam to helping out with a difficult student. I would send a kid to the office for being yellingly defiant and she would send him right back and say that I needed to maybe let him do something else, rather than math, maybe he could just write on the chalkboard or something. Did the class really want to "do math"? Maybe I just wasn't making math fun.

 

What the teacher did was inexcusable, but being pushed into handling situations like this one with no backup and no support is the main reason I left the classroom. I couldn't take the prevailing system of letting the most out-of-control kids be in control of the classroom.

 

When the incident happened, the boy had NO diagnosis, so she had no aide. Even if she had, the idea that each kid gets their own aide if there is an IEP depends completely on funding. I never taught in a school that had more than one aide per grade, to be shared between six to nine teachers. We rarely saw her, the kids got about 20 min. a day with her... not one on one, and I had at least six with IEPs in a fifth grade class with 27 kids. There were more than 30 kids with IEPs, and one aide.

 

It doesn't make what she did right. She should have just quit.

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Thank you for posting this.

 

I have a child who was diagnosed (then undiagnosed) with Asperger's. So something is going on with him. Here is what I know. His teachers in K and 1st did him no favors by being so accepting and nice about his issues. He needed someone to tell him he was being annoying. He needed to be hit over the head with the point that his teachers and classmates were unhappy with his behavior.

 

I am very clear with my son about how his behavior affects me and others. I don't mince words. I am not "nice." He has been home since second grade and his behavior has improved about a million fold (though it took several years).

 

Frankly, I think the teacher might have been on to something. I wonder if/how the kid's behavior would have changed if he had gone back to the classroom.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

 

I think there is a difference between being tough and being a bully. This teacher bullied this kid and worse, invited the other children to join in. The supposed "moral leader" completely and utterly failed this classroom. How about when he left the class instead of inviting the kids to criticize him, they have a talk about being "different". That's what I do with my kids when we run into a child with social differences (as we did at a ball game recently). It's called teaching.

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Sad as it is, this kind of thing is common in the public schools where I live. I have heard from old friends who are teachers now doing this in THEIR classrooms.....sans the vote. I saw this sort of thing happen when I was a child in school too as a regular discipline tool.

 

It is abuse. It is just another example as to why not to trust strangers to raise your children.

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I saw this on t.v last night . I think its awful . They said the school district was on the teacher's side and that she was a good teacher . Well , I don't think so . Not if you talk to a child like that and try to pressure a bunch of 5yr olds to go against him . How awful .

I'll have to go back and read the article you posted . But there is NO reason for this teacher to act like this . This is what the principle's office is for and they should of called his mother to come and get him if he was acting in a way that she could not handle .

 

Public Schools are ALL about the money and not about the children .We learned that lesson with our school district that's for sure . Money is way at the top and your child's interest and future is at the bottom pit .

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Thank you for posting this.

 

I have a child who was diagnosed (then undiagnosed) with Asperger's. So something is going on with him. Here is what I know. His teachers in K and 1st did him no favors by being so accepting and nice about his issues. He needed someone to tell him he was being annoying. He needed to be hit over the head with the point that his teachers and classmates were unhappy with his behavior.

 

I am very clear with my son about how his behavior affects me and others. I don't mince words. I am not "nice." He has been home since second grade and his behavior has improved about a million fold (though it took several years).

 

Frankly, I think the teacher might have been on to something. I wonder if/how the kid's behavior would have changed if he had gone back to the classroom.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

 

I had to comment on this quote here from someone . I don't agree at all with how this teacher handled this situation . I worked in a college daycare for a few years . We had several special needs children , even though we weren't prepared for these children we worked with the parents . I don't have a degree but I knew enough when it was time to bring a second party into the mix if there was something I was concerned about with another child . NEVER did we call the child names , NEVER did we gang up against the child causing issues .

That is gang mentality . What this teacher taught these children to do was WRONG in every sense .

 

I honestly don't think that you tell your child every day that he is worthless, that you don't like him ( and children equate the word like with LOVE , even austisic children ) , you don't gang up his siblings on him .

I'm sure you tell him he is annoying in your own loving way .

 

What this teacher did was abuse in every sense of the word . She had options . I am most sure that those getting their degrees do have some sort of teaching on what to do if they encounter a child with special needs . They aren't trained to diagnose. But even when I earned my teacher's aide certificate we had a small class on what to do , what programs were out there to help and so on . PLUS teachers have to renew many clearances through out their career as well by taking classes . I see this in the newspaper in our area all of the time .

There was no reason why the mom could not of been called in . There was no reason why she could not of involved a second party in a conference to help this little boy .

 

Honestly there is just no reason . Period . I only pray that these children and these parents of these children will talk with their children and tell them that this is NOT the way you treat someone . Even if they do eat boogers and crayons .

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I totally agree. It made me sick to read the description of what was done to this innocent child. As far as I'm concerned, this woman isn't simply "undertrained", she sick. Since when is "Lord of the Flies" the model for classroom discipline? Any adult, even one with NO teacher's training or knowledge of disabilities, knows that this was emotional torture, pure and simple. Collecting children in a ring and encouraging them to insult another child, telling him that she hates him? I think it's very likely that she has been a victim of abuse in the past and has learned some really horrible behaviors--regardless, Ms. Portillo should be out of the classroom and never allowed to work with children again in any setting, IMHO.

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