Riots in London

[Truscifi]

Holy c*ap. How did this happen? Was I under a rock? Three days of rioting, burned cars and buildings, now it is spreading to Birmingham?! :confused:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14435251

[rwjx2khsmj]

If it makes you feel any better, I was under the same rock. Good grief!

[ashfern]

There is a severe lack of info about what started all of this. The only thing I've read is that he was shot & killed by police and a police officer was injured. Nowhere have I seen why he was pulled over in the first place. :confused:

[Truscifi]

There is a severe lack of info about what started all of this. The only thing I've read is that he was shot & killed by police and a police officer was injured. Nowhere have I seen why he was pulled over in the first place. :confused:

 

I agree. I have only found that he was in a minicab (not entirely sure what that is) when he was pulled over. I'm very confused about this whole thing.

[Negin]

We were in some of these very same locations just a few weeks ago.

 

Here are some links:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/

[Mom-ninja.]

I just heard about it this morning. However, I do avoid the news.

[lailasmum]

From what I understand it started off the back of a peaceful protest about the shooting of a man by the police. Just escalated, now it seems to have sparked gangs of looters to start fires to disract emergency services and then looting in other areas.

[Hedgehog]

"These riots are being caused by the idiocy of people who can't control their own greed", according to one police officer. I tend to agree.

 

The original issue still isn't totally clear.

[fatfishes]

Mini cab is like a taxi.Rumours are flying that other cities are likely to have riots tonight.These riots have nothing to do with the original Family's protest.This is just gangs of stupid people looting .

[Negin]

I think that this was insightful and accurate.

Lara Oyedele of Odu-Dua housing association, who lives in Tottenham, looks at the motivation of the rioters.

"The looting doesn't surprise me: it's entertainment, something to keep young people busy. It's not right, but those are the facts. Simply, if they had to go to work this morning they wouldn't have been rioting last night. They're disaffected, unhappy and upset, and they are looking at the likes of me, saying: you need to give me something, I need a job, I need you to help me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/09/london-riots-violence-looting-live

[Jyniffrec]

I think that this was insightful and accurate.

Lara Oyedele of Odu-Dua housing association, who lives in Tottenham, looks at the motivation of the rioters.

"The looting doesn't surprise me: it's entertainment, something to keep young people busy. It's not right, but those are the facts. Simply, if they had to go to work this morning they wouldn't have been rioting last night. They're disaffected, unhappy and upset, and they are looking at the likes of me, saying: you need to give me something, I need a job, I need you to help me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/09/london-riots-violence-looting-live

 

I wondered if this is what is going on. Usually there is some bubble of unrest ready to burst before events like these.

[Negin]

I wondered if this is what is going on. Usually there is some bubble of unrest ready to burst before events like these.

Yes. I've often read (and it's basic common sense) that get any large group of idle/unemployed/misguided youth (but usually males) and this sort of thing is more likely. They're frustrated. They're angry. So many benefits are being cut. Sad, but true. Doesn't make it right. But this is what it is ...

[pdalley]

I read they were coordinating via cell phones and texts. Just how much have they lost if they can afford cell phones and internet? Or is it different over there and there is free wi-fi everywhere?

 

I never understood the rationale of burning and trashing and looting your own neighborhood when you're angry about something. Doesn't make much sense to destroy what little you have.

[kahlanne]

I never understood the rationale of burning and trashing and looting your own neighborhood when you're angry about something. Doesn't make much sense to destroy what little you have.

 

 

:iagree:

[Truscifi]

I read they were coordinating via cell phones and texts. Just how much have they lost if they can afford cell phones and internet? Or is it different over there and there is free wi-fi everywhere?

 

I never understood the rationale of burning and trashing and looting your own neighborhood when you're angry about something. Doesn't make much sense to destroy what little you have.

 

:iagree:

 

Dh and I were talking about this this morning. He thinks the austerity measures and general discontent with how the government is handling the economic crisis created an environment conducive to rioting. He also has long thought that looters are a small percentage who take advantage of the chaos caused by rioters, but the majority of rioters don't loot, they are just caught up in their rage and lashing out. Either way, I still don't understand destroying your own neighborhood.

[joannqn]

I read they were coordinating via cell phones and texts. Just how much have they lost if they can afford cell phones and internet? Or is it different over there and there is free wi-fi everywhere?

 

I never understood the rationale of burning and trashing and looting your own neighborhood when you're angry about something. Doesn't make much sense to destroy what little you have.

 

 

Or how hurting innocent people (physically or economically) will help their situation.

[Mom in High Heels]

It's insane! We had planned to go to England this week, but had to cancel because dh couldn't get the time off. I'm really glad he couldn't now.

The rioting has nothing to do with the original issue. The people in the neighborhoods didn't do anything. These idiots are hurting innocent people.

[Negin]

It's insane! We had planned to go to England this week, but had to cancel because dh couldn't get the time off. I'm really glad he couldn't now.

The rioting has nothing to do with the original issue. The people in the neighborhoods didn't do anything. These idiots are hurting innocent people.

I thought of you and was wondering when exactly you were going. :grouphug:

[Laura Corin]

This evening's PM programme on the BBC had a reporter in the court where they are starting to prosecute rioters. He said that the accused were not, in general, unemployed and seriously disadvantaged people. Many were employed in good jobs and/or educated.

 

Laura

[Murphy101]

I think that this was insightful and accurate.

Lara Oyedele of Odu-Dua housing association, who lives in Tottenham, looks at the motivation of the rioters.

"The looting doesn't surprise me: it's entertainment, something to keep young people busy. It's not right, but those are the facts. Simply, if they had to go to work this morning they wouldn't have been rioting last night. They're disaffected, unhappy and upset, and they are looking at the likes of me, saying: you need to give me something, I need a job, I need you to help me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/09/london-riots-violence-looting-live

 

Well I'm not bloody likely to give a flip about helping someone, much less giving them anything, certainly not a job if they are acting like idiots endangering my family and business while on a rampage.

 

A prime example of cutting their nose off to spite their face.

[lailasmum]

All the cuts means anywhere these kids would normally hang out has been shut down, youth centres or schemes for kids are just not there any more or extremely limited, its school summer holidays at the moment too so tons of kids at a loose end.

 

And yes mobiles can be bought dirt cheap and topped up cheaply with offers that double the cash you actually put on them and there are lots of places to access cheap/free internet.

[Negin]

 

Very good timeline and map of exactly what happened. I'm starting at the bottom of the page and working my way forward.

[lisamarie]

Yes. I've often read (and it's basic common sense) that get any large group of idle/unemployed/misguided youth (but usually males) and this sort of thing is more likely. They're frustrated. They're angry. So many benefits are being cut. Sad, but true. Doesn't make it right. But this is what it is ...

 

:iagree: I was a witness to the Michigan State riots back in 2009. They weren't reacting to the game. They were reacting to the local government passing laws that stripped students of just about every right. And the rest of them were drunk, possibly high, idle, unemployed, misguided. I didn't riot myself, but my DH got tear gassed after getting too close to it all.

 

Honestly, I'm waiting for this to start breaking out here. It's happening all over the world--we aren't immune.

[rieshy]

My son found this: http://gizmodo.com/5829131/if-youre-looting-in-the-uk-right-now-please-dont-post-a-picture-of-yourself-on-twitter

[Truscifi]

My son found this: http://gizmodo.com/5829131/if-youre-looting-in-the-uk-right-now-please-dont-post-a-picture-of-yourself-on-twitter

 

 

:001_huh: At least he is making the job easy for the police.

[CarenM]

I have been under a rock until just NOW. What's going on there??? I have missed it completely! Since we started school I have no clue what is going on in our world.

[pageta]

There is a severe lack of info about what started all of this. The only thing I've read is that he was shot & killed by police and a police officer was injured. Nowhere have I seen why he was pulled over in the first place. :confused:

 

I thought that the peace-loving UK had police officers who do not carry guns (they're so much better than us Americans because they have a NON-VIOLENT society)...so how is it that the guy got shot by a police officer? What am I missing?

[jenangelcat]

There's a thoughtful piece on it here.

[Mom in High Heels]

This evening's PM programme on the BBC had a reporter in the court where they are starting to prosecute rioters. He said that the accused were not, in general, unemployed and seriously disadvantaged people. Many were employed in good jobs and/or educated.

 

Laura

 

We saw this same program on BBC. It was shocking.

 

I thought that the peace-loving UK had police officers who do not carry guns (they're so much better than us Americans because they have a NON-VIOLENT society)...so how is it that the guy got shot by a police officer? What am I missing?

 

Not to make light of it, but haven't you ever seen Hot Fuzz? They have loads of guns. Apparently everyone in town has guns.

[Laura Corin]

I thought that the peace-loving UK had police officers who do not carry guns (they're so much better than us Americans because they have a NON-VIOLENT society)...so how is it that the guy got shot by a police officer? What am I missing?

 

They are deployed for operations, like this one, where there is evidence of illegal weapon use.

 

Laura

[MBM]

I thought that the peace-loving UK had police officers who do not carry guns (they're so much better than us Americans because they have a NON-VIOLENT society)...so how is it that the guy got shot by a police officer? What am I missing?

 

I believe the guy who was shot was carrying a gun and threatened an officer, but I'm not sure what's true.

 

They do allow a small percentage to carry guns there, but a) one must undergo a serious psychological evaluation to carry one and b) most don't want to do so. For the most part, they manage just fine without them. I imagine what would be occurring now would be worse if more of those rioters were carrying guns, though.

 

IMO, the escalating rioting is an example of social proof. From Wikipedia:

 

Social proof, also known as informational social influence, is a psychological phenomenon where people assume the actions of others reflect correct behavior for a given situation. This effect is prominent in ambiguous social situations where people are unable to determine the appropriate mode of behavior, and is driven by the assumption that surrounding people possess more knowledge about the situation.

 

I hope the violence will subside soon.

[Negin]

This looks interesting - What Turns People Into Looters - having experienced looting first-hand, I've just started to read it and thought to share.

[butterflymommy]

Honestly, I'm waiting for this to start breaking out here. It's happening all over the world--we aren't immune.

 

It's already happening in the US, but on a small scale. Violent flash mobs organize via online social media and then descend on a store or neighborhood to loot, rob, and beat people up. It's not being reported much by the national media, I've mainly read about these incidents on message boards where people who happen to live locally discuss it. I doubt, though, that we will see large scale rioting as our police force (unlike the UK and much of europe) is not shy about shooting to kill, and we have a larger military that any of those countries. Or I should say, the only way this would happen in this country is if the powers-that-be sat by and let it happen, which is not beyond the realm of possibility.

[Slartibartfast]

It's already happening in the US, but on a small scale. Violent flash mobs organize via online social media and then descend on a store or neighborhood to loot, rob, and beat people up. It's not being reported much by the national media, I've mainly read about these incidents on message boards where people who happen to live locally discuss it. I doubt, though, that we will see large scale rioting as our police force (unlike the UK and much of europe) is not shy about shooting to kill, and we have a larger military that any of those countries. Or I should say, the only way this would happen in this country is if the powers-that-be sat by and let it happen, which is not beyond the realm of possibility.

 

There was an incident in Kansas City on the plaza

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/blog/2010/04/whats_going_on_at_kansas_citys_country_club_plaza.html

 

http://www.kmbc.com/news/23126070/detail.html

[Negin]

I doubt, though, that we will see large scale rioting as our police force (unlike the UK and much of europe) is not shy about shooting to kill, and we have a larger military that any of those countries. Or I should say, the only way this would happen in this country is if the powers-that-be sat by and let it happen, which is not beyond the realm of possibility.

I hope you're right. I despise looting, but then again, the U.S. gets a very rare situation like Katrina when all hell breaks loose. :confused:

[Hannah]

This evening's PM programme on the BBC had a reporter in the court where they are starting to prosecute rioters. He said that the accused were not, in general, unemployed and seriously disadvantaged people. Many were employed in good jobs and/or educated.

 

Laura

 

The disenfranchised youth argument doesn't cut it to excuse the terrible behaviour and this fact just makes it so much worse.

It seems that the riots are not a political statement, but an opportunity to feed greed.

I am disgusted.

[Laura in CA]

Not to make light of it, but haven't you ever seen Hot Fuzz?

 

THAT was a funny movie.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Laura in CA

[kathkath]

My sister lives in B'ham U.K. and received this email from a constable.

 

"Last night was terrible for the country and a bad night for Birmingham, national issues were imported into the West Midlands, which endured several hours of wanton theft, damage and disorder.

 

It was not an angry crowd that caused this last night, it was a greedy crowd and we are dealing with dishonesty and disorder.

 

There were sporadic incidents across the West Midlands overnight, with the most serious concentrated in Birmingham City Centre and later in the Handsworth area of the city.

 

At the height of the disorder, there were between 7-800 people involved. We had 400 officers with protective equipment with support of regular officers. We estimate around 30 premises were damaged and goods stolen were mainly electrical items and high-value clothing.

 

One building was burnt, a small police station in Holyhead Road and while I grieve for the police station, I would rather a station suffered than someone lose their home or business.

 

I have been heartened by our work with partners, there has been extensive work to clear up the damage. Although some businesses remain closed, Birmingham City Centre is open for business today.

 

Last night we made 133 arrests and this morning we have arrested a further five people and a quantity of high-value clothing has been recovered, following a series of warrants carried out by officers.

 

A number of CCTV pictures of those involved are being out onto the web and social media sites involved and we appeal for the public's help in identifying those responsible and bringing them to justice.

 

We learnt a lot last night, this was a very different disorder with a crowd focused on looting and theft. Our primary way of dealing with this will be to arrest and bring to justice as many people as possible by speeding up processes.

 

There is shock, anger and disgust about what happened and many of the people involved were astonishingly young. We appeal to the parents and local community to keep their children indoors and safe. The tragedy is that young people without any previous criminal record will now be criminalised.

 

We have contingency plans in place tonight which will see over 400 officers working extended shifts across the West Midlands, who will be able to respond to any situation that may develop."

[Murphy101]

Not to make light of it, but haven't you ever seen Hot Fuzz? They have loads of guns. Apparently everyone in town has guns.

 

*snort*

 

Love that movie.

[6packofun]

OK, but is it a race thing? Was the man black and the officers white so a racial issue was sparked? Because I hate to say it, but I mainly see younger black men doing the looting and destruction, however I'm sure that the media coverage is NOT complete...

 

Or was there general dissatisfaction with the police force in the country to begin with? I'm totally stumped but very sad for GB!

[Negin]

*snort*

 

Love that movie.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[ButterfliesandBooks]

I live just north of London, about 30 mins from where some of these riots have taken place. It's so scary and sad. I have friends who live in these areas, many elderly, who are terrified to leave their homes.

 

It's a complete disgrace. The shooting that sparked this off now has nothing to do with any of it. It's just mindless, terrible. I've read the arguments that the people looting are poor and disillusioned and have no jobs. Yet they can afford blackberry phones! I can't really feel sorry for people like this -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

 

We live from pay cheque to pay cheque. Have no savings. We go without many things (holidays, nights out, trips, new phones, tvs, etc), and yet my 13 year old isn't out looting and robbing. It comes down to bad parenting and a complete lack of morals.

Edited August 9, 2011 by ButterfliesandBooks
spelling!

[pdalley]

I live just north of London, about 30 mins from where some of these riots have taken place. It's so scary and sad. I have friends who live in these areas, many elderly, who are terrified to leave their homes.

 

It's a complete disgrace. The shooting that sparked this off now has nothing to do with any of it. It's just mindless, terrible. I've read the arguments that the people looting are poor and disillusioned and have no jobs. Yet they can afford blackberries! I can't really feel sorry for people like this -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

 

We live from pay cheque to pay cheque. Have no savings. We go without many things (holidays, nights out, trips, new phones, tvs, etc), and yet my 13 year old isn't out looting and robbing. It comes down to bad parenting and a complete lack of morals.

 

What a spoiled couple of little brats on that clip! I hope things settle down soon. It must be horrible.

[ummof3]

I live in London, thankfully not in the badly affected parts but still I heard local shops did get looted and there were days/nights when the streets were so quiet. It was scary as I got messages from friends advising not to go out and to stay vigilant.

 

My brother in law witnessed the local supermarket being looted and saw a guy all covered in blood.

 

You know you see youth rioting in places like the Middle East in the name of freedom. So it was surreal to see youth here fighting for trainers (sneakers), alcohol and electrical goods.

 

One of the main questions being asked? Where were the parents?

 

So sad x

[FiveOaksAcademy]

What a spoiled couple of little brats on that clip! I hope things settle down soon. It must be horrible.

 

No kidding!! I love how they choose to blame the rich people. :glare: Meanwhile many people who are just trying to get by in life are terrified because a bunch of these people with too much time on their hands and who feel they are owed something have created chaos.

[Truscifi]

I live in London, thankfully not in the badly affected parts but still I heard local shops did get looted and there were days/nights when the streets were so quiet. It was scary as I got messages from friends advising not to go out and to stay vigilant.

 

My brother in law witnessed the local supermarket being looted and saw a guy all covered in blood.

 

You know you see youth rioting in places like the Middle East in the name of freedom. So it was surreal to see youth here fighting for trainers (sneakers), alcohol and electrical goods.

 

One of the main questions being asked? Where were the parents?

 

So sad x

 

This difference has really jumped out at me. I know there are difficult times everywhere, the UK is no exception, but to riot and loot for free alcohol and better electronics? It seems they need a reality check.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Truscifi