s/o banned toys

[leeannpal]

What is so wrong with Disney toys/merchandise?

 

When I was reading the thread about toys that little girls aren't allowed to have, I expected to see Barbies, Bratz and maybe make-up sets. I was really surprised at the number of people who don't allow princess things or other Disney products. I'm just curious why the princesses are a problem?

[Tangerine]

http://boingboing.net/2010/05/24/what-disney-princess.html

 

This.

[NicAnn]

For us personally: I do NOT like the way Disney markets their products. I feel their marketing is more extreme than any other company. So for that reason, I won't buy their products (vote with your wallet kind of thing).

 

Secondly, I don't like what the princesses stand for. I know this has been debated all over the internet and in my own life, but that's my view. I feel the Disney princesses are too sexual in the way they are clothed and drawn. I don't care for the story lines either.

 

I don't want my daughter to think that she is only a dainty, prissy, pretty girl. In my experience as a nanny, day care provider, and preschool teacher, many of the girls are unable to view themselves as beautiful or strong, unless they are wearing a certain colored dress with the right matching shoes. I remember caring for a friends child and some milk spilled on her dress. All she had in her back up bag was jeans. She literally broke down at the thought of wearing pants because she "wouldn't look like a princess". Unfortunately I've seen this kind of thing enough to know it's not an isolated incident.

[leeannpal]

For us personally: I do NOT like the way Disney markets their products. I feel their marketing is more extreme than any other company. So for that reason, I won't buy their products (vote with your wallet kind of thing).

 

Secondly, I don't like what the princesses stand for. I know this has been debated all over the internet and in my own life, but that's my view. I feel the Disney princesses are too sexual in the way they are clothed and drawn. I don't care for the story lines either.

 

I don't want my daughter to think that she is only a dainty, prissy, pretty girl. In my experience as a nanny, day care provider, and preschool teacher, many of the girls are unable to view themselves as beautiful or strong, unless they are wearing a certain colored dress with the right matching shoes. I remember caring for a friends child and some milk spilled on her dress. All she had in her back up bag was jeans. She literally broke down at the thought of wearing pants because she "wouldn't look like a princess". Unfortunately I've seen this kind of thing enough to know it's not an isolated incident.

 

This hasn't been my experience with my own daughter. I certainly wouldn't call her a "girly girl," but she enjoyed her time being a princess, going to WDW and just enjoying the magic. I certanly think that any type of toy can be stressed too much, but I see the situations that you describe as more of a problem with the parents, who stress that the girl herself is a "princess." We never mde an issue of the princesses, and now, at almost 9, my daughter still loves Disney, but has grown out of the princess phase.

[leeannpal]

http://boingboing.net/2010/05/24/what-disney-princess.html

 

This.

I've seen that more than once. Cute, but I think if the parents handle it correctly, as in these are fictional characters, then it is just pretend play. Ahd what little girl doesn't like to pretend to be a princess at least once in her life?

[RainySunday]

 

I remember caring for a friends child and some milk spilled on her dress. All she had in her back up bag was jeans. She literally broke down at the thought of wearing pants because she "wouldn't look like a princess". Unfortunately I've seen this kind of thing enough to know it's not an isolated incident.

 

You just described my dd(3.5). However, she has only seen a couple of Disney movies and only once/twice at that. She loves to wear dresses ("like a princess"), and loves how they twirl. Her dresses look nothing like the Disney ones, and most are handmade by her great grandmother, who loves to sew for her. She also pretends to be a goat, a dolphin, and a number, depending on what day it is though. It is like pulling teeth to get her into jeans...but for her, it's because jeans are scratchy (texture/sensory minor issues) and they don't twirl. So, some kids love the whole pretty/princess/frilly thing, no matter how much it is downplayed in your home.

[NicAnn]

This hasn't been my experience with my own daughter. I certainly wouldn't call her a "girly girl," but she enjoyed her time being a princess, going to WDW and just enjoying the magic. I certanly think that any type of toy can be stressed too much, but I see the situations that you describe as more of a problem with the parents, who stress that the girl herself is a "princess." We never mde an issue of the princesses, and now, at almost 9, my daughter still loves Disney, but has grown out of the princess phase.

 

 

Yes this is true. I do think a lot of times it's a parent issue. I think that most children want to immerse themselves in whatever they are interested in. If that's princesses, then they want it all...and many parents aren't willing to say no.

[twoxcell]

Secondly, I don't like what the princesses stand for. I know this has been debated all over the internet and in my own life, but that's my view. I feel the Disney princesses are too sexual in the way they are clothed and drawn. I don't care for the story lines either.

Seriously? I can't imagine anyone thinking Disney princesses were sexy.:confused: My girls love Disney princess movies and so do I. I see nothing wrong with them at all. The only one I do not care for is the Frog Princess one but that is because of the weird voodoo stuff.

[twoxcell]

Wanted to add that I don't buy them loads and loads of any licensed products but if they want a couple of things no big deal. They also have a big tub of dress up clothes of all kinds including some Disney stuff.

[Tangerine]

I've seen that more than once. Cute, but I think if the parents handle it correctly, as in these are fictional characters, then it is just pretend play. Ahd what little girl doesn't like to pretend to be a princess at least once in her life?

 

And I agree to an extent. I don't think a viewing of Beauty and the Beast is going to irreparably damage anyone. I think the cascading products and films based on princesses permeating the play of little girls can be a bit much.

[NicAnn]

Seriously? I can't imagine anyone thinking Disney princesses were sexy.:confused: My girls love Disney princess movies and so do I. I see nothing wrong with them at all. The only one I do not care for is the Frog Princess one but that is because of the weird voodoo stuff.

 

I feel they are made to look sexual with the overt cleavage and odd poses in the pictures. Not to mention in Google image, the second search recommendation is "Disney Princess Hot".

 

http://freedisneyclipartsite.com/Free_Disney_Clipart_2.html

[Tangerine]

Seriously? I can't imagine anyone thinking Disney princesses were sexy.:confused: My girls love Disney princess movies and so do I. I see nothing wrong with them at all. The only one I do not care for is the Frog Princess one but that is because of the weird voodoo stuff.

 

 

With all the sorcery and magic in Disney films, why is the one with references to a genuine religion more objectionable?

[twoxcell]

I feel they are made to look sexual with the overt cleavage and odd poses in the pictures. Not to mention in Google image, the second search recommendation is "Disney Princess Hot".

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that. To me they are not sexy at all just feminine and I see nothing wrong with that. Now Arial and Jasmine are a little more skimpy but we hardly ever watch those ones. Also wanted to add that my girls are very imaginative when they play dress up or with their Princess dolls, and they do not only act out what they saw in a movie.

[NicAnn]

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that. To me they are not sexy at all just feminine and I see nothing wrong with that. Now Arial and Jasmine are a little more skimpy but we hardly ever watch those ones. Also wanted to add that my girls are very imaginative when they play dress up or with their Princess dolls, and they do not only act out what they saw in a movie.

 

Agreed. :) My views of feminine may just be different from yours. I definitely fall into the more modest religious crowd.

[DianeW88]

Disney toys or movies are not and will never be a problem in our house. My older kids have played with them and watched them and my youngest one as well....with no harm done. We go to Disneyland all the time. We just got back from WDW in March and plan on returning next year as well. We love Disney!

[twoxcell]

Agreed. :) My views of feminine may just be different from yours. I definitely fall into the more modest religious crowd.

I consider myself to pretty modest myself, and also a conservative Christian;). I would never wear an outfit like Ariel, or Jasmine, but the other Princesses dress in full length ball gowns. I don't see those as immodest at all. They aren't even strapless. They also are cartoony and look more like little girls to me than full grown women KWIM. Even Ariel and Jasmine are fully covered and aren't exactly hanging out everywhere. In fact I see much worse attire at the local park.:001_huh: We do not allow are girls to walk around in super tight short clothes or two piece swim wear. I would much rather they wanted to wear pretty dresses anyways.

[twoxcell]

With all the sorcery and magic in Disney films, why is the one with references to a genuine religion more objectionable?

You got it exactly right. The other Disney movies are strictly fantasy. I have never seen anyone casting spells with Bippity Boppity Boo:lol:. The Frog Princess on the other hand contains real Religious references to a religion I do not agree with at all. I hope that makes sense. I does to me anyways.;)

[Dmmetler]

I've noticed my DD tends to gravitate to the more modern, independent girls who really aren't princesses-Mulan and Tiana are her favorites. Mulan isn't a princess, and doesn't even become one-she does what is needed to save her father and her country, and the title she is offered is an adviser to the emperor, not to marry his son. Tiana becomes one only by marrying a disowned prince, and makes her dreams come true on her own-while also convincing the prince to actually do an honest day's work.

 

I don't see either as poor role models. And given that Mulan spends most of the movie dressed as a man and Tiana spends most of it hopping around in a swamp as a frog, they're not particularly sexy, either!

[cathmom]

Just wondering what exactly a mermaid is supposed to wear to be modest LOL! A denim jumper? :lol:

 

My girls are older now but we watch Disney and they have Disney stuff. The only thing we didn't like was the pink Disney princess tree, mainly because it the gosh-darn gaudiest thing you've ever seen!

 

I would rather my girls watch the Barbie movies which show strong confident main characters who are also beautiful, but we watch Disney ones too.

[NicAnn]

You got it exactly right. The other Disney movies are strictly fantasy. I have never seen anyone casting spells with Bippity Boppity Boo:lol:. The Frog Princess on the other hand contains real Religious references to a religion I do not agree with at all. I hope that makes sense. I does to me anyways.;)

 

:iagree: This is an issue for us too. Although, more about the magical fantasy thing. In our religion we are encouraged to stay away from magic, witchcraft, etc. I'm not terribly strict and neither is my husband, but it's not something I want to encourage. Particularly if DD decides our religion is something she wants to embrace as an older child/adult.

[twoxcell]

Just wondering what exactly a mermaid is supposed to wear to be modest LOL! A denim jumper? :lol:

:iagree::lol:

My girls also love the Barbie movies. They are super fun.:001_smile:

[swellmomma]

I've seen that more than once. Cute, but I think if the parents handle it correctly, as in these are fictional characters, then it is just pretend play. Ahd what little girl doesn't like to pretend to be a princess at least once in her life?

 

:iagree: In fact one of dd's upcoming preschool packs is princesses. It focuses on being a princess of God than on disney but I do not ban disney. She even has Disney princess Barbies (oh my 2 evils wrapped in one :tongue_smilie:). If a parent is promoting the side of thinks of how you dress is most important etc, it doesn't matter if it is a princess theme or not they will still push that. I think promoting pretend play is important, and I like to balance the princess play (complete with costumes), with other things like knights, dr's, police officers, dragons, animals etc. I think teaching the child the difference between what is real and the pretend they see portrayed in Disney (or other movies) is more important than a blanket ban.

 

Then again dd was wearing a paper bag dress most of this wek on top of her clothes to be like the paper bag princess. Not a disney them but still a princess that knows herself and her worth very well.

[nmoira]

http://boingboing.net/2010/05/24/what-disney-princess.html

 

This.

Yes that.

 

"What's wrong with Cinderella?" (NY Times)

and Orenstein's followup book Cinderella Ate My Daughter (link is to an interview about the book).

[Tangerine]

And the waists. THE WAISTS! I mean, really. Someone had a rib or two removed. And who needs those pesky organs?

[nmoira]

I'd much rather have my kids watching Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli than Disney. Heck, we've even purchased merchandise. :tongue_smilie: There's no waiting around for Prince Charming in Miyazaki's films, and the characters feel more authentic because of the little touches like the frustration of the mother in Ponyo at her husband's taking another job rather than coming home as expected.

 

The girls and I saw Whisper of the Heart (not Miyazaki) this weekend, and, while there was a romance, it was never the defining characteristic of either of the teenagers involved. They both wanted far more out of life than merely to be in love. It was an absolutely charming little film, a "coming of age" film appropriate and engaging even for younger kids.

[Dobela]

Seriously? I can't imagine anyone thinking Disney princesses were sexy.:confused: My girls love Disney princess movies and so do I. I see nothing wrong with them at all. The only one I do not care for is the Frog Princess one but that is because of the weird voodoo stuff.

DOn't forget Ariel the Mermaid and Jasmine who wed Aladdin. Both are dressed fairly skimpy IMO in the top. Bikini-ish tops with cleavage are not acceptable for me.

 

I don't care for Disney for many, many reasons. Marketing is just one of them. While I don't ban it per say, we do seriously limit what we buy of their merchandise. Girls can be a princess and all that without buying the Disney versions.

[nmoira]

My oldest son would love Miyazaki. He loves Japanese anything and everything.

 

Is this on TV?

DVD. Of the films, only Ponyo is streaming on Netflix at the moment.

 

How old is your son?

[WishboneDawn]

I've noticed my DD tends to gravitate to the more modern, independent girls who really aren't princesses-Mulan and Tiana are her favorites. Mulan isn't a princess, and doesn't even become one-she does what is needed to save her father and her country, and the title she is offered is an adviser to the emperor, not to marry his son. Tiana becomes one only by marrying a disowned prince, and makes her dreams come true on her own-while also convincing the prince to actually do an honest day's work.

 

I don't see either as poor role models. And given that Mulan spends most of the movie dressed as a man and Tiana spends most of it hopping around in a swamp as a frog, they're not particularly sexy, either!

 

My daughter LOVED Mulan. I'd never seen her cry while watching a Disney movie until the scene where Mulan was discovered to be a woman and kicked out of the army. :)

 

I DO think there's a larger Disney context where kids are being split up and marketed to by gender and it drives me wild but frankly, removed from that context a princess doll is just a princess doll and my daughter loved them for a time. She also giggled at orc decapitations in LOTR. A good balance methinks. :D

 

ETA: I think the thing it boils down to for me is that I don't think her character or our parenting is so weak that a princess doll will undermine either.

[Mynyel]

It is a matter of hot debate on why, but I don't agree with the link about princesses. My dd loved the Disney princesses growing up. She had clothes (couldn't keep her out of dresses), bedding, toys, curtains, accessories, you name it. She now doesn't give a whit about them as is very much her own girl with her own ideas. She is also two belts away from being a black belt in karate, definitely not princess-y.

 

So it really has nothing, IMO, to do with how they market or what the story is (I personally think the stories are lovely). It has to do with how they are raised to see themselves.

 

I see no problem with it, the only reason I wouldn't buy much of it, besides not having a girl who wants it, is it costs more than stuff that isn't Disney branded.

 

It is all what you make of it.

[myfunnybunch]

If that's princesses, then they want it all...and many parents aren't willing to say no.

 

Or, to be fair, don't feel the need to say no. Some parents just indulge their child's interests. Some think it's cute. Some parents loooooooove Disney and encourage their dd's to be "pretty princesses." It's not as though all Disney princess-obsessed girls have pushover parents who aren't willing or able to set boundaries.

 

Though I must say that I'm grateful my girls weren't super-excited by Disney princesses, lol. I'm not a fan of the whole character marketing phenomenon.

 

Cat

[zenjenn]

That BoingBoing cartoon is cute, but come on. These stories are older than mud.

 

When we started homeschooling one of the first projects I did with my first character was to study Cinderella stories from around the world to demonstrate the idea that stories are told and retold across chronological and cultural boundaries.

 

There are also some underlying truths, as well as underlying primal appeal, to the way these stories are told. Beauty HAS and IS valuable for women. The female primal mind IS instinctively attracted to strength and protection. I can say that I *wish* a plain woman will have the same opportunities as a gorgeous woman all else being equal, but that would be a lie. Truth is truth. The gorgeous woman will have challenges that the plain woman will not.

 

Of course, we are modern and technology and enlightened thought reduced or eliminated much of primal psychology, but it's still there under the surface, and certainly our culture, our collective storytelling, etc, has been impacted by the truths of history.

 

I was one of those who tried for the gender-neutral colors when I had my first baby girl. I was a tomboy growing up. But I'm not normal. My girls have been raised with WAY more permission to be what they wish than I was, and they are far more feminine than I. It is their nature.

 

However, I do understand toy banning. I myself ban Bratz, and I also ban some Barbies. (For me, fairies and mermaids and princesses are OK because they are fantasy. Modern Barbie with her swimsuit her Corvette and her boyfriend are not because it comes too close to mixing unrealistic body images with realistic settings and accessories. The fantasy distinction, IMO, becomes blurred at that point.) For me the princesses do not cross my line.

Edited July 18, 2011 by zenjenn

[nmoira]

He is 9. He adored Ponyo.

 

I just canceled Netflix. Maybe I can find some at the library or something.

Probably. They're distributed by Disney (Buena Vista?). Unless he's sensitive about movies (mine are), the only Miyazaki I'd advise previewing is Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke. I haven't seen every Studio Ghibli film, but Grave of the Fireflies, though a wonderful movie, is brutally heartwrenching. I'm glad to have seen it once, but know I can't sit through it again.

 

Ponyo, Howl's Moving Castle, My Neighbor Totoro, and Kiki's Delivery Service are the big favourites with both girls. My littlest doesn't handle suspense well and can't sit through any of the others yes. The Cat Returns and Whisper of the Heart (neither are Miyazaki) are also good. The former is kind of a spin-off from the latter, but it isn't necessary to watch them in order.

[dangermom]

I've tried to limit the Disney princess stuff without banning it. I'm just not wild about "all princesses all the time," and I'm not a big fan of licensed character clothing at any time. When my girls have wanted to be princesses, I've sewed them the dresses (green/gold and indigo/silver!) rather than buying Disney ones.

 

I don't actively dislike Disney princesses in the same way that I dislike Barbie and Bratz; I just don't want to encourage them too much.

[SailorMom]

It is a matter of hot debate on why, but I don't agree with the link about princesses. My dd loved the Disney princesses growing up. She had clothes (couldn't keep her out of dresses), bedding, toys, curtains, accessories, you name it. She now doesn't give a whit about them as is very much her own girl with her own ideas. She is also two belts away from being a black belt in karate, definitely not princess-y.

 

So it really has nothing, IMO, to do with how they market or what the story is (I personally think the stories are lovely). It has to do with how they are raised to see themselves.

 

I see no problem with it, the only reason I wouldn't buy much of it, besides not having a girl who wants it, is it costs more than stuff that isn't Disney branded.

 

It is all what you make of it.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I loved the Disney movies as a kid (and still do) - but I never wore dresses, was the exact opposite of a girly-girl, and was top of my class. I never thought my worth was tied to my looks....

 

Anyway - let's all be honest. We can say, oh - there's more to life than prince charming, etc.etc.... but who here would prefer an extensive career void of our children and husbands? And what exactly is wrong with choosing love? I think, sadly, feminism can go too far, and devalue the choices I made. I did have to give up a lot to marry my DH and have children, and homeschool.... but I made that choice based on my heart and what was important to me, not on what the princesses brainwashed me in to as a 9 year old.

I agree with the body image issues, but I don't think that comes as much from Disney as all the other marketing out there.... and anyway - don't most movie starts look like they have had a rib removed?

[nmoira]

 

That BoingBoing cartoon is cute, but come on. These stories are older than mud.

Disney is generally selective in the story elements it chooses, but the bigger issue is pervasiveness: heavy branding and cross-licensing, pushing products to fit every aspect of a child's life -- books, clothing, toothbrushes, Happy Meals, PJ's, accessories, themed holidays, Ice Capades, CD's, dolls and other toys, costumes, kiddie make-up, etc. It's the "lifestyle" being pushed, not the simple stories behind it. The movie is only the first step in the marketing chain. Edited July 18, 2011 by nmoira

[twoforjoy]

As a person who overthinks everything I sometimes just have to let stuff go. This is one of those things. I think some of it is cute and kinda fun. I played with Barbies and I liked Disney growing up. I'm not a girly girl at all.

 

That's kind of my take on it. I think there are valid ideological reasons to be opposed to Disney stuff in particular and princess stuff in general. But, quite honestly, 90% of the time in parenting, I let ideology go.

 

I grew up playing with Barbies and princess stuff and all kinds of girly things. I don't think it impeded the development of my feminist consciousness. ;) So, while it's not an issue right now and I wouldn't select Disney/princess stuff for DD, if she likes it when she's old enough to pick out toys and it's in our price range, I'm not going to make an issue of it. I don't make an issue of it when she gets that kind of stuff as presents, either.

[meggie]

It is a matter of hot debate on why, but I don't agree with the link about princesses. My dd loved the Disney princesses growing up. She had clothes (couldn't keep her out of dresses), bedding, toys, curtains, accessories, you name it. She now doesn't give a whit about them as is very much her own girl with her own ideas. She is also two belts away from being a black belt in karate, definitely not princess-y.

 

So it really has nothing, IMO, to do with how they market or what the story is (I personally think the stories are lovely). It has to do with how they are raised to see themselves.

 

I see no problem with it, the only reason I wouldn't buy much of it, besides not having a girl who wants it, is it costs more than stuff that isn't Disney branded.

 

It is all what you make of it.

 

This is why I don't spend money on any licensed character merchandise. I'm not going to spend a lot of money on something they'll outgrow so quickly. I need things that will last.

 

And honestly, growing up I had more problems with Jasmine being a hypocrite, Aurora "falling in love" with a stranger after an hour, Snow White making all those animals do the work;), Ariel "falling in love" with a guy she'd only seen but never talked to, etc etc. The only one I had no issues with was Belle. Yes she was pretty, but that wasn't enough to make up for the fact that she read and had a mind of her own. They all thought she was weird. Gaston only wanted to marry her because she was the prettiest in the town, but she saw through him. I do like the added scene in the DVD, you get the feeling that Belle's and the Beast's relationship was based on actually enjoying each others' company.

[chepyl]

I LOVE Disney. I grew up with friends who could watch nothing but Disney. So to me, it seems like the better choice. I would rather DD watch a Disney princess cartoon than iCarly or some of the other kids and tween programs with REAL people. The cartoons are fantasy, and we don't let it take over (except for the one week a year we do Princess Dance Camp! :))

 

DD and I really enjoy the music, too!

[Matryoshka]

Disney is generally selective in the story elements it chooses, but the bigger issue is pervasiveness: heavy branding and cross-licensing, pushing products to fit every aspect of a child's life -- books, clothing, toothbrushes, Happy Meals, PJ's, accessories, themed holidays, Ice Capades, CD's, dolls and other toys, costumes, kiddie make-up, etc. It's the "lifestyle" being pushed, not the simple stories behind it. The movie is only the first step in the marketing chain.

 

:iagree: It's not the movies or even the princess theme I have a problem with, it's the merchandising. The pervasiveness. The all-encompassing nature of it.

 

I let my kids watch the movies, but if we read a book of Cinderella or Snow White or Little Mermaid, I go right to Perrault and Grimm and Andersen. Or get picture books out of the library or different versions from around the world. I have no problem with Disney movies as one adaptation of the "old as mud" stories. One time we had a comparative Cinderella movie night with the Disney version, The Slipper and the Rose, Ever After, and Drei Haselnüsse für Aschenbrödel (a really wonderful little film, but only available in German :tongue_smilie:) But with all the merchandise, Disney becomes *the* version. That I have a big problem with.

 

So, my kids had princess dresses, and fairy dresses, and ballerina dresses - but none had Disney stamped on them. They also love Harry Potter and Star Wars, but we also don't have "official" merchandise. If they want to dress up or play-act anything, they can use their imaginations and their own resourcefulness.

[CalicoKat]

DH banned barbies here when he went to tuck ds in one night and found all of them lined up n@ked on ds's pillow. :lol:

 

That was the last time I saw a barbie in the house. They quietly all disappeared.

 

Poor Pollly was promoted to princess. Her problem is mainly decapitation.

 

My daughter's didn't seem to notice their departure and hence they were never replaced.

[ladydusk]

The movie is only the first step in the marketing chain.

 

I agree ... although I was pretty sure it was the non-skippable previews (even on the Schoolhouse Rock DVD!!!) that promote "Coming Attractions" that was the first step. [argh]

 

I've tried to limit the Disney princess stuff without banning it. I'm just not wild about "all princesses all the time," and I'm not a big fan of licensed character clothing at any time. When my girls have wanted to be princesses

 

That's pretty much the rule we've decided on ... no characters all of the time in clothing choices (I did give in on a cute Winnie-the-Pooh outfit when the girls were little ... ) We don't need to advertise for Disney/Dora/PBS Kids/what have you. Only Buckeye garb in our household! [grin]

 

Yes that.

 

"What's wrong with Cinderella?" (NY Times)

and Orenstein's followup book Cinderella Ate My Daughter (link is to an interview about the book).

 

I read this book earlier this year, and while we aren't coming from the same place (at all) and don't always end up with the same standard (at all) I found much of her thinking to be helpful. Thanks for the links.

 

------------------

 

We don't ban Disney movies (although I think the '70s Robin Hood and Lady and the Tramp are favorites ... my kids were terrified by Snow White), but we definitely *limit* movies and the stuff that goes with it. We have Bambi on the shelf to watch but were waiting to finish the real book before we saw what Disney did to it. I also appreciate this article which discusses the differences in story between the Disney and older versions.

[sewingmama]

Anyway - let's all be honest. We can say, oh - there's more to life than prince charming, etc.etc.... but who here would prefer an extensive career void of our children and husbands? And what exactly is wrong with choosing love? I think, sadly, feminism can go too far, and devalue the choices I made. I did have to give up a lot to marry my DH and have children, and homeschool.... but I made that choice based on my heart and what was important to me, not on what the princesses brainwashed me in to as a 9 year old.

 

:iagree:

 

I allow my DD princess dolls - she has only seen a couple Disney movies (Tangled and Snow White) - their story line was always too long for her to sit through till recently.

 

I don't agree that Disney princess dolls can only be princess dolls. As soon as my DD gets them home she strips them naked, whacks a diaper on them and treats them like all the rest of her "babies". I've never seen her act out Disney storylines with them. She also has a Dora doll who never acts out Dora storylines and also wears a diaper and is pushed around in a stroller and fed with a bottle (such indignity for poor Dora):lol:

 

I think Princesses are a stage lots of little girls go through - it's rare to see a 9 yo who still likes princesses so I guess that most grow out of it.

 

The thing I do have issue with is children who are treated like Princesses - make-up parties, having their nails done at a salon -those are the things that are not allowed at my house. I think they do far more damage to a girl's self-esteem and thinking she has to look great all the time then owning a Princess doll does.

[PiCO]

http://boingboing.net/2010/05/24/what-disney-princess.html

 

This.

 

Love that! I just put it on my facebook.

[Jenny in Florida]

Secondly, I don't like what the princesses stand for. I know this has been debated all over the internet and in my own life, but that's my view. I feel the Disney princesses are too sexual in the way they are clothed and drawn. I don't care for the story lines either.

 

We take the princesses on a case by case basis. For example, I was perfectly happy letting my daughter dress up as Belle or Mulan, but she was well into her teens before she ever saw The Little Mermaid or Cinderella.

 

Belle is smart, a bookworm and brave. Nothing to object to about that character, as far as I can see. Ditto on Mulan. She also watched and loved several of the more "boy-centric" films, like Hercules, Toy Story and Aladdin. (Yes, I know Jasmine bares her midriff, but she's otherwise kind of great.)

 

But I hate, hate what Disney did to Hans Christian Andersen's story. The original is about wanting things too much and about making hard choices. In that version, every step the girl takes on those borrowed legs is like walking on knives. But in Disney's take on the story, pretty little Ariel breaks the rules, disobeys her father and STILL gets everything she wants. Yuck.

 

Cinderella? Dishrag whose only admirable trait as far as I can tell is that she's pretty.

 

We just didn't have a lot of licensed merchandise when the kids were little.

 

You might find this book interesting, though: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/cinderella-ate-my-daughter-peggy-orenstein/1024513774?ean=9780061711527&itm=1&usri=cinderella%2bate%2bmy%2bdaughter%2bdispatches%2bfrom%2bthe

[LidiyaDawn]

http://boingboing.net/2010/05/24/what-disney-princess.html

 

This.

 

Okay maybe I'm just not 'that deep' - but this looks like somebody was reading waaaaay too hard into things. They're just cartoons. :tongue_smilie:

[Dustybug]

You got it exactly right. The other Disney movies are strictly fantasy. I have never seen anyone casting spells with Bippity Boppity Boo:lol:. The Frog Princess on the other hand contains real Religious references to a religion I do not agree with at all. I hope that makes sense. I does to me anyways.;)

 

:iagree: We were so excited to see Princess and the Frog(me even more than DD, because Disney FINALLY had an African American princess!), but the voodoo just totally skeeved me out. We watched it once, and won't again. I wasn't really aware beforehand that was in the movie.

[twoxcell]

I let my kids watch the movies, but if we read a book of Cinderella or Snow White or Little Mermaid, I go right to Perrault and Grimm and Andersen. Or get picture books out of the library or different versions from around the world. I have no problem with Disney movies as one adaptation of the "old as mud" stories. One time we had a comparative Cinderella movie night with the Disney version, The Slipper and the Rose, Ever After, and Drei Haselnüsse für Aschenbrödel (a really wonderful little film, but only available in German :tongue_smilie:) But with all the merchandise, Disney becomes *the* version. That I have a big problem with.

 

I do not buy books of Disney stories I find them to be twaddle. As far as the marketing I do think it is a bit over the top, but it is a parents job to decide what they want to buy for their kids. My kids watch very little regular TV with commercials, and we do not have the Disney channel. As far as previews on the movies I generally skip them. I do agree that some of the movies I do not care for as much not really because of the attire. For example Ariel is pretty bratty, and we have rarely seen it at all. I go on a case by case basis with any movie and I'm not going to throw out every Disney movie because I didn't like a couple. If I do not like or agree with it I don't buy it.

[twoxcell]

One more thought my dd's both like dressing up and being girly but they also like to rough house, play outside, pick up bugs, etc. In fact my dd picked a Peter Pan birthday last year because she had seen a play of Peter Pan(not Disney, although I do love the Disney version and so does she). She dressed as Peter for the party.

[Skadi]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet...Another reason we don't like Disney is that they pay their animators cr@p and have tried to have a monopoly on children's animated films. That's so not cool.

 

I also don't want to make my kids' first exposure to great classics (Peter Pan, Sword in the Stone, Alice in Wonderland, etc.) to be the Disney-ized versions. The books are so, so much better.

[Parrothead]

Why is looking one's best, wearing dresses, enjoying the perks of being a girl (woman/female, your pick) such a bad thing? I don't understand why a girl being a girl or wanting to be a "princess" is a bad thing. A girl (woman/female, your pick) can be feminine, graceful, wear a dress and be smart, funny and strong.