I feel my "philosophy" shifting... (what's happening to me?)

[Sahamamama]

:001_huh: Years ago, before I ever met my husband or had children, I read (and agreed with) the Well-Trained Mind approach to home-based learning. Even though my oldest is only 6.5 years old, I've thought of us as "WTM-ers" since before her birth, LOL. ;)

 

Sigh...

 

I feel a storm brewing, if you KWIM. The first sign of trouble was when I started to question the necessity of teaching formal science and history (and art) to a first grader. Deep breath here. I know, I know, it sounds so traitorous to say such a thing, especially here. But I wondered, Is all that formal focus on information truly necessary? or best? or meaningful at that age?

 

I don't know... this nicely woven idea of WTM-style education is slowly unraveling for us... I keep thinking about what is important for small children to know and experience. I'm not sure that K, 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd needs to be what's lined up in WTM.

 

How did this happen to me? :willy_nilly::willy_nilly: :001_unsure: Okay, I'll blame the twins. It has to be having twins that did this to me, LOL. It certainly wasn't my firstborn. She's the classic WTM-perfect child -- she loves to read and write and do narrations.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Sahamamama

[MeghanL]

I think the emphasis is more on what is eventually taught, not in what grade it is being taught. With Veritas Press we don't start history until 2nd grade. And we take a whole year to study Ancient Egypt and then another whole year to study Ancient Greece & Rome. Not exactly in line with the timeline SWB lays out, but I think she would agree that her timelines are a base point, not a gospel. We will cover pretty much everything that is laid out in the WTM at some point in the grammar, logic & rhetoric stages, but feeling the need to do it in a particular year is adding un-needed stress (in my opinion).

[boscopup]

Doesn't SWB say the main focus of those ages is the 3R's? I don't think you have to put a LOT of focus on history, science, and art. I know I am able to do those subjects without them taking over my homeschool. I spend about 30 minutes or less per day on history/science. Most of our day is the basics.

 

Really, the way SWB lays out those subjects, I think you also work skills using them. For example, doing SOTW narrations doubles as "writing". I have my son read his science out loud, so it doubles as "reading". You use these subjects to work on skills in a more enjoyable way.

 

Even in CM-based curricula, history is used to enhance reading and writing skills.

 

Now at the same time, I think it's normal to start with one philosophy and then change at least parts if it once you actually try it out with a real kid. My own thoughts have grown and changed since I started, and I still follow SWB's overall philosophies, but I'm also not afraid to go in a different direction. I'm even using an integrated science textbook this year. Gasp! Use what works for you, and take the parts that you like. No big deal! I don't think the WTM police will come knocking at your door. :)

[NanceXToo]

I personally prefer a more gentle, hands-on, Waldorfy, play-based approach to the youngest years, particularly pre-K through 1st grade. And I'm still pretty relaxed for the rest of the grade school years, although they do get more and more academic for us as we go. By 4th, 5th and 6th we're doing much more academic stuff- more so each year- (though we still like to keep it hands on and interesting to the extent we are able).

 

This approach is working well for us in regard to our happiness, how I can see my daughter learning, how she's doing on standardized testing, the things our evaluator says about our portfolios at the end of each year, etc.

 

I think if you decide a more laid back approach is best for you- you don't need to feel guilty or traitorous lol... there's more than one way to approach an education. :)

[8filltheheart]

I have been there for yrs. ;)

[Colleen in NS]

I feel a storm brewing, if you KWIM.

 

How did this happen to me?

 

Well, your kids grew, and you are getting to know them, and you are seeing reality set in! :D

 

I read somewhere that SWB wrote WTM (whose general philosophy has served us well, and so have much of the recommendations and methods in it - and I expect it to continue) when her oldest was 6. I think she basically asked her Mom to help her lay out a 12 year plan back then, and then her agent asked to see her plan, so he could see if he could turn it into a marketable book, and the rest is history as we know it. And I'm sure she has tweaked everything since then, just keeping in mind general learning and organizational principles.

 

So, maybe your philosophy isn't so much changing completely as it is being tweaked. Or really, the way you go about it is being tweaked?

[janainaz]

I don't think there is one right way to educate your kids. I chose WTM because it made logical sense to me, and I needed direction. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with changing your philosophy, or asking questions about 'why' you're doing something, and making changes when you feel led to. There is no secret formula to life.

A + B does not always equal C. There is more than one way to skin a cat. :001_smile:

[Critterfixer]

I've not been homeschooling as long as some here, only two years, but there are times when reality crashes the WTM party, that's for sure. But I do look to it as a measuring stick, making sure I pay closer attention to the goals, and less attention to some of the curriculum recs.

As to whether history and science are important in the early years, I'd say yes. Do I need a curriculum? Do I need to have the child keep a huge notebook and do worksheets, narration and coloring every day? NOPE.

Most days, my children are eager to learn. Having found out from my own experience that sitting and writing down "notes" does not equal learning, I've put more focus on reading, reading, reading and doing, doing, doing. At least for now.

[alpidarkomama]

The first sign of trouble was when I started to question the necessity of teaching formal science and history (and art) to a first grader. Deep breath here. I know, I know, it sounds so traitorous to say such a thing, especially here. But I wondered, Is all that formal focus on information truly necessary? or best? or meaningful at that age?

 

Even SWB herself says history and science are optional at that age. My experience is, though, that history and science are my kids' favorite subjects at that age!! :) And they love both formal and informal learning in these areas. So.......... whatever works for you! :)

[cmarango]

As for science, I thnk that the most important thing that you can teach to young children is the ability to observe and record observations. Children are naturally curious about their world and if you can model the scientific process every so often, then that may be enough.

[Sahamamama]

:001_wub: I love y'all. Deep breath. I feel better now.

 

Really, I do think the twins are the reason for "The Shift." Yes, they are real children, LOL, unlike my oldest, who is too-good-to-be-true. :Angel_anim: She seriously would do seatwork and reading all day, if I let her. (I don't).

 

Maybe it's the lovely summer weather we are having. Maybe it's also the fact that my sister is moving, so we've been packing... and 18 years' worth of "stuff" is a lot to haul, y'know? There are so many memories in those boxes, it is making us all look back to when her children were little -- the ages my kids are now. And I find myself thinking (actually whining would be a better word), "But I don't want to do those WTM schedules next year with a cooperative 2nd grader and two energetic ;) Kindergartners. Wahhhhhhh." Yeah, it's that bad these days.

 

We do enjoy our learning times... honestly. It's just that I can see so many areas for learning that have little or nothing to do with academics... but are important all the same for small children. Here's my list (not that anyone will read it, but I will feel better) --

 

By the end of 2nd grade, each child will know how to:

 

 

• read well in print and in cursive
  
• accurately copy in print and in cursive
  
• accurately take dictation in print and cursive
  
• spell words using the rules of our program (AAS)
  
• define parts of speech
  
• identify parts of speech in a sentence
  
• tie a shoelace (yes, it was stream-of-consciousness brainstorming, and a kid came up with an untied shoelace)
  
• tell many stories from the Bible, folk tales, myths, fables, fairy tales, and chapter books
  
• tell a historical narrative of the United States, including brief biographical narratives about at least 10 people in US History
  
• recite and apply math facts in addition, subtraction, and some multiplication/division
  
• recite numerous Bible passages and poems
  
• do on-the-spot chores without arguing or complaining
  
• do assigned chores from a list without being reminded
  
• fold & put away/hang up their own clothes & other household laundry
  
• hang clothes up on a clothesline
  
• make & serve a sandwich
  
• make & serve a salad
  
• plan, prepare, plant, weed, water & harvest a 3' x 3' garden each year
  
• put away toys, books, art supplies & other personal belongings
  
• keep a folder organized & neat (papers)
  
• keep a drawer organized & neat ("stuff")
  
• sweep the kitchen floor
  
• sew small projects (bean bag, drawstring bag, doll clothes, pot holder)
  
• read simple music & play the recorder
  
• sing melody & harmony using common songs & hymns
  
• sing with accompaniment & a capella
  
• ride a bike safely (no extra wheels)
  
• ride a pony or horse without fear
  
• swim & practice water safety
  
• be safely in a boat
  
• go fishing
  
• go crabbing (we live close to the ocean)
  
• go camping
  
• collect eggs at the farm
  
• care for plants and small animals
  
• respect, thank, and love others
  
• ask politely, using words instead of whining
  
• accept a "no" answer without whining or arguing
  
• play together without bickering :tongue_smilie:
  
• pay for an item, wait for & count change, thank the clerk (w/supervision)
  
• travel to & from California to visit husband's relatives (1x/year, they're paying, so we're going :D)
  
• greet relatives politely & thank them for gifts, show appreciation (I'm amazed at how this is not common among so many children) :001_huh:
  

 

I suppose what really dawned on me as I've considered these goals is how there are things to get in place before we focus overly-much on academics. Yes, I want them to do Latin and Math and all the rest. I especially appreciate how WTM lays out the progression for English -- there is wisdom in that path, I think.

 

But I keep coming back to the reality of small children (5, 6, 7 year olds). Mine all seem wired for stories, language, and lots of outdoor play in the sunshine. And it feels right to let them go on watching the praying mantis on the marigolds, rather than bring them in for a "Science lesson" on the muscular system. KWIM? I hope I'm doing the right thing... I do wonder sometimes.

[boscopup]

Have you re-read WTM lately? For K, she only recommends phonics, math, and a basic handwriting program. It's very relaxed. Even first and second grade are fairly light, IMO. I see no reason why you can't go look at a mantis on a marigold and call it science for the day. You can look at the muscular system on a rainy day, or talk about it while outside using those muscles. ;)

 

Your list actually reminds me of CM, and maybe you want to incorporate more CM into your homeschool. Again, I don't think the WTM police will come knocking. :)

[Murmer]

When I think back to my PS education I remember history getting all jumbled up...egypt and rome 1 year, followed by modern history the next, followed by my state study, followed by renaissance and then US history up to civil war then back to egypt and rome. Basically it was a big jumble that had no real order at least to me. When I see the WTM series for history and science I see it more as a guideline for setting building blocks of knowledge that can be built on in each 4 year cycle. It is not all inclusive it is as much as you can do.

[Ritsumei]

And it feels right to let them go on watching the praying mantis on the marigolds, rather than bring them in for a "Science lesson" on the muscular system. KWIM? I hope I'm doing the right thing... I do wonder sometimes.

 

We do nature study, as a separate topic from science, for precisely the reason you're giving here: kids need to be outside, and there is value in it. Lots of value. And for us, the overlap with "science" has been huge. Monkey wants to learn about birds for the animal study. Fine. Good even: we can then go to the park and look at robins, and visit the wildlife sanctuary and see the hawks and eagles and owls. Or the one park where they have an eagle's nest and a bunch of pelicans. Then that time outside counts as science too. Birds & local animals work great for the animal study.

 

Though I also think there is value in learning how muscles work too. But it doesn't have to be long. Sit down & look at a picture book of the muscles (and other stuff) for a few minutes when you're doing story time. Then you can have your cake and eat it too. Sometimes, use that that body book to practice some of those foundational skills: narration, writing, reading. But don't take long. TWTM's recs. say that in 1st grade they dictate... you write. Maybe she'll want to write a word or two, maybe not. Either way, it's OK: she's learning just a little more about her body. But plants and animals can be neatly folded into nature study and gardening. It's possible for YOUR plans to be structured while their perception is that they're just doing what they do. ;)

[kristinannie]

I think most people tweak or mix philosophies. I am doing classical with heavy CM and unit studies. You just need to find what works best for your family! Honestly, all of the philosophies are just a guideline. Is it necessary to do art appreciation in 1st? No? Is it enjoyable for most kids? Yes. Don't feel like you have to follow anything to the letter! Just enjoy the journey!

[NanceXToo]

By the end of 2nd grade, each child will know how to:

 

 

• do on-the-spot chores without arguing or complaining

• do assigned chores from a list without being reminded

• ask politely, using words instead of whining

• accept a "no" answer without whining or arguing

• play together without bickering

 

Cough. Wow. You really ARE ambitious. LOL!

[sagira]

You get to know yourself better as time goes along.

[Ritsumei]

 

 

Cough. Wow. You really ARE ambitious. LOL!

:lol: :iagree: Most teens I know are still working on those things...

 

Heck. I know adults that would be challenged by some of those. I've been known to whine occasionally. :D

[silliness7]

I'm guessing it's your own personal experience with your children as you've watched them grow and change. I agree with your assessment, or your unravelings. :001_smile: Skills, skills, skills should be the focus with content giving the skills something fun to practice on. But I really don't think it matters in the least if you do history chronologically or do science topics in a certain order.

 

I much, much, much prefer to do American History with early grades than Ancient History after trying out the chronological bit on my oldest children. I'm trying out HOD for the first time this year. NOT WTM in content in the early years and I'm glad.

 

:001_huh: Years ago, before I ever met my husband or had children, I read (and agreed with) the Well-Trained Mind approach to home-based learning. Even though my oldest is only 6.5 years old, I've thought of us as "WTM-ers" since before her birth, LOL. ;)

 

Sigh...

 

I feel a storm brewing, if you KWIM. The first sign of trouble was when I started to question the necessity of teaching formal science and history (and art) to a first grader. Deep breath here. I know, I know, it sounds so traitorous to say such a thing, especially here. But I wondered, Is all that formal focus on information truly necessary? or best? or meaningful at that age?

 

I don't know... this nicely woven idea of WTM-style education is slowly unraveling for us... I keep thinking about what is important for small children to know and experience. I'm not sure that K, 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd needs to be what's lined up in WTM.

 

How did this happen to me? :willy_nilly::willy_nilly: :001_unsure: Okay, I'll blame the twins. It has to be having twins that did this to me, LOL. It certainly wasn't my firstborn. She's the classic WTM-perfect child -- she loves to read and write and do narrations.

[learningmama]

You're not alone. I like classical education and don't mind starting some of it early, but on the other hand I want my kids to be kids in the K-2nd years or so and not have to worry about meaty subjects and play, color, have silly fun. There's still lots of time in the future when they will sit and do lots of serious schoolwork, but their young/cute/sweet stages are going by fast and we are going to really enjoy them (if that means not worrying about ancients, sentence diagramming, and science journals).

[Critterfixer]

Another area where I have relaxed the WTM is the schedule set for science. My boys are set to do earth science this year, but we certainly are not going to cull a program on cuttlefish or birds, just because we "had that last year." Yes, we are going to try to make sure we hit the aspects of earth science I've selected, but if oceanography tempts them to go back and take another look at sharks, then we'll study sharks! (Only I might add more about which sharks in which places this time around.)

 

As for history, we have been using SOTW as our spine, but I've found that I get much further if I don't read from SOTW but use it to pick out books with many more pictures. I've got two very visual little boys, and at this stage they really want pictures to go with what they are hearing.

[....]

And each kid in the family is different, too... I'm basically unschooling (or doing relaxed homeschooling - whatever you want to call it) the 6 yro this year. This kid just can. not. sit. down. I couldn't even CATCH her the other day - physically catch her. :glare: I'm beyond worrying about a classical education for that kid.

 

And, ironically, this kid is really, really smart. She's been rattling off math facts, multiplication facts (from Schoolhouse Rock DVD), she's reading, etc. If only she would stop scaling the walls, barking and swinging from the chandeliers for one moment...(why can't my kids just be normal)

 

Is there a specific educational philosophy that you're moving towards?

[Hedgehogs4]

I love the idea of the WTM, but it is an IDEAL. To apply it as it is written exactly just doesn't work for every family. I refer to it regularly as a kind of roadmap, but my kids are my kids and don't necessarily fit into that style of study all the time. There would be revolution, for instance, if I sat my ds down with Usborne and said, "outline this and put it in your history notebook." It would be death by a thousand cuts.

 

I love the CM ideas the most, but they invariably become blended with the classical concepts, for instance, I see the need in this day and age to study Latin, logic, and the classics. But I really want to snuggle on the sofa and make it part of loving and living life.

[Sahamamama]

 

 

Cough. Wow. You really ARE ambitious. LOL!

 

 

Yup, especially that "no bickering" part. :tongue_smilie:It's been that kind of a day.... :toetap05: Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. Hm, I might need to add grammar to the list. :D

[swainsonshawk]

I read the WTM when my oldest son was about 4 and I decided that there was NO way I was going to incorporate this IMPRACTICAL and OVERKILL curriculum with my kids. So I didn't for about 6 years. Now I've come back to it and I appreciate its positives and I am trying to incorporate things into my homeschool for my younger kids (like more grammar, narration, dictation, organized science and history). Funny how we all change. Don't feel bad, just change away and come back sometime if you want. This philosophy will be here for when you and your kids are ready for it!

[Osmosis Mom]

I wouldn't call classical education or the format outlined in WTM ideal as a poster mentioned. It's just one other educational pedagogy. You don't need to choose one pedagogy only or be married to it. You can evolve and change according to what fits your learner. That's the whole point of homeschooling, isn't it?

 

I tend to focus on getting my kids reading and loving to read and then we take things from there around age 9-10. By then, they'll be reading at a high school level and have begun getting specific interests. I know when we did too much history with young kids, then they couldn't recall much. I had fun and the older learners enjoyed the process and learned some (or taught me some!), but the younger kids just enjoyed the process and goofed off. The end result in my house has so far been pretty smart kids with individual interests and a broad range of knowledge and hopefully literacy in Western and not-so-Western classics and high points of culture.

 

Don't sweat it.

[Sahamamama]

I couldn't even CATCH her the other day - physically catch her. :glare: I'm beyond worrying about a classical education for that kid.

 

Is there a specific educational philosophy that you're moving towards?

 

:grouphug: Wow, that makes me tired just reading about it. LOL. My twins are like that -- Thing One and Thing Two -- but they're only 4.5 now. The oldest is 6.5, and she's our bookworm, nature-lover, gardener, craft-loving little gem. My husband calls her a hippie librarian. :lol: (And we are not at all hippie-like, so we don't know where she gets it).

 

Moving towards? I suppose you could say it's less a matter of being attracted to another person's articulation of "educate the child this way," and more my own reflections and musings about my own very real daughters. So, it's the "Who They Actually Are" philosophy, I guess?

 

IDK... this happens when I get quiet and prayerful. :glare: I stop to ponder the profundities of childhood and life, and this is the thanks I get.

 

In addition to WTM, I've read and gleaned from CM, AO, CCE, Trivium Pursuit, MP, VP, TOG, BF, CC, and LCC. :) There are some good pickings in each of these fields, some of which I think are better utilized in later years (3rd-5th or 6th-8th). In the primary years, though, we want to take the time to:

* lay a firm foundation in English and Math with three bright, young students

* read and read again our favorite Bible stories, classic children's literature & poetry at a relaxed pace

* share our Christian faith with our children

* be outside in nature

* relax into crafts, projects, play time, or art

* learn practical skills & social skills/politeness/self-control

* memorize & recite poetry, Bible, math facts, science facts, geographical facts, & perhaps a history timeline (not sure about all of this yet)

* learn to play the recorder/read simple music

 

We want Latin, but later. We want chrono history, but later. We want artist & composer studies, but later. We want hands-on science, but later. And that seems to be a theme with me lately. :) I like the idea of studying all that content... only later. They are so young now. Anyway, thanks for listening.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Sahamamama

[justamouse]

Welcome to the Dark Side. We have alcohol.

 

Twins, yes. What is happening is that you're coming up on the fact that you cannot teach all of them their separate grades according to the WTM recommendations. You're going to have to make changes, and that's good. But I think the spirit of TWTM still propels us, and I always reference TWTM for reading lists, ideas, targets of age appropriate activities.

 

I blend it all up and use what works for us. I was going to say like a good Tom Collins, but this here is homeschooling and I guess a green soymilk smoothie is more accurate.

Edited July 15, 2011 by justamouse

[chiguirre]

 

I don't think many people do follow those schedules (including the Overmind herself) so don't sweat it. BUT, SOTW is just chock full of good stories and the activity books have lots of fun ideas and lists of good picture books you won't want to miss. If you get it on cd, you can pop it in during a car ride or play-doh session and you'll be amazed at what your kids pick up with very little drudgery. Science can be lots of fun too if you don't mind using picture books and Magic School Bus videos. My kids learned a lot that way. More importantly, we all had a blast.

 

Since you'll have 2 Kers next year, take a look at Five in a Row and homeschoolshare. We had a lovely K/1 year rowing and learning about geography, science, story elements and art techniques. It was even more fun than SOTW and that's a hard standard to meet.

 

Now that mine are older they're just naturally moving toward doing more formal work and it hasn't been too much of a struggle. It just grew out of all the stories we enjoyed the last 3 years.

[Sahamamama]

Welcome to the Dark Side. We have alcohol.

 

Twins, yes. What is happening is that you're coming up on the fact that you cannot teach all of them their separate grades according to the WTM recommendations. You're going to have to make changes, and that's good. But I think the spirit of TWTM still propels us, and I always reference TWTM for reading lists, ideas, targets of age appropriate activities.

 

I blend it all up and use what works for us. I was going to say like a good Tom Collins, but this here is homeschooling and I guess a green soymilk smoothie is more accurate.

 

Thank you for your understanding of the twin thing. Yes, it is that. Yes. It is thinking about doing justice to their primary years, to laying as good of a foundation for them in the basics as I have been trying to do with the oldest. Two K'ers and one 2nd grader are teacher-time intensive, and there is no way to really tell one to do something "independently." So we ought to do the basics solidly and then... be done. Because we can NOT feel like we are "doing school" all day long, KWIM?

 

Besides, in a year or two, they will all be at that great age when we can tackle all that hands-on history, science, and art with gusto. And they can do the clean up. :D

 

BTW, I love your blog. I wish you were my neighbor. I would be knocking on your door for crochet and craft lessons. I would bring my children, too. :lol: Where did you mom find the melt and pour soap?

[justamouse]

BTW, I love your blog. I wish you were my neighbor. I would be knocking on your door for crochet and craft lessons. I would bring my children, too. :lol: Where did you mom find the melt and pour soap?

 

She had stopped at a garage sale on her way here. You can find the kits at AC Moore if you have one by you.

 

Man, having you here would be a blast. We have a few forum members here...(lays cookie crumb trail). :D

 

I talked to Mom, she said that she had some of the soaps already, too, she just added some more to a bag for me. She said any craft store should have melt and pour.

Edited July 15, 2011 by justamouse

[Jennay]

 

Cough. Wow. You really ARE ambitious. LOL!

 

Exactly my reaction! Oh what I would pay for a day with no bickering.

[Mommyfaithe]

I have been there for yrs. ;)

 

:D. Yep...me too...Serious history begins around grade 5 ...science Grade 7. Before then, we read lots of books, focus on skill subjects...and enjoy learning to learn. I use many of the recommended books in the WTM, but certainly do not stick to the schedules.

 

Hth,

Faithe

[Meriwether]

* lay a firm foundation in English and Math with three bright, young students

* read and read again our favorite Bible stories, classic children's literature & poetry at a relaxed pace

* share our Christian faith with our children

* be outside in nature

* relax into crafts, projects, play time, or art

* learn practical skills & social skills/politeness/self-control

* memorize & recite poetry, Bible, math facts, science facts, geographical facts, & perhaps a history timeline (not sure about all of this yet)

* learn to play the recorder/read simple music

 

 

 

I am too heavy in the academics. I know I am. I like your list. Well, except for the "be outside in nature". When Dh and I made a list of goals for our homeschool, we had 11 focus points listed before we got to academics. On a busy day, I put off Bible of all things. I justify it by saying they know those stories (and they do), but what kind of message does that send? After reading your list, I want to go back over the list Dh and I made before planning out next year's schedule.

[Mommyfaithe]

And each kid in the family is different, too... I'm basically unschooling (or doing relaxed homeschooling - whatever you want to call it) the 6 yro this year. This kid just can. not. sit. down. I couldn't even CATCH her the other day - physically catch her. :glare: I'm beyond worrying about a classical education for that kid.

 

And, ironically, this kid is really, really smart. She's been rattling off math facts, multiplication facts (from Schoolhouse Rock DVD), she's reading, etc. If only she would stop scaling the walls, barking and swinging from the chandeliers for one moment...(why can't my kids just be normal)

 

Is there a specific educational philosophy that you're moving towards?

 

Your kids sound really normal to me:D

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

:D. Yep...me too...Serious history begins around grade 5 ...science Grade 7. Before then, we read lots of books, focus on skill subjects...and enjoy learning to learn. I use many of the recommended books in the WTM, but certainly do not stick to the schedules.

 

Hth,

Faithe

 

Eta: by " serious" I mean child is expected to read and respond to assignments I prepare. No bellyaching! We begin our rotation and I trybto finish it by 9 th grade. I swear the sky does not fall down if we don't finish by then!

 

By serious science...I mean we begin a more rigorous text based program...whereas before grade 7 we do more nature studies and delight directed reading.

[Mommy22alyns]

You're actually homeschooling, getting to know your kids better, maturing and changing. You're making homeschooling your own. That's a good thing! NOT to say that any philosophy is lesser in any way, but I just see this as you getting more comfortable.

[Mommy22alyns]

And each kid in the family is different, too... I'm basically unschooling (or doing relaxed homeschooling - whatever you want to call it) the 6 yro this year. This kid just can. not. sit. down. I couldn't even CATCH her the other day - physically catch her. :glare: I'm beyond worrying about a classical education for that kid.

 

And, ironically, this kid is really, really smart. She's been rattling off math facts, multiplication facts (from Schoolhouse Rock DVD), she's reading, etc. If only she would stop scaling the walls, barking and swinging from the chandeliers for one moment...(why can't my kids just be normal)

 

Is there a specific educational philosophy that you're moving towards?

 

 

:confused: What is UP with this? My girls love to pretend to be cats and dogs. And horses. Becca rarely walks anywhere in the house. She gallops. Like a horse. :confused:

[Colleen in NS]

The first sign of trouble was when I started to question the necessity of teaching formal science and history (and art) to a first grader.

 

You know the Drawing With Children book rec'd. in grammar stage art in WTM? Well, I liked the idea of using it, and I liked the book. So we did use it. But it did end up taking me three years to finish it with my kids - my oldest was at the end of grade 5 by then! :D Not saying you should do formal art with your kids next year - just giving you an example of some WTMish plans that I wanted to accomplish spread wwwaaaaayyyyyy out at my house.

 

"formal" science - have you listened to SWB's science audio lecture? It might help take some anxiety away. It's more about the teaching of science skills in each level than about the perfect laid out study plan.

[Sahamamama]

Exactly my reaction! Oh what I would pay for a day with no bickering.

LOL, I listed "no bickering" as a goal (pipe dream?), not something I think will seriously be achieved (for life) by the time the twins are 7 or 8... I can dream, right? :001_smile:

 

 

:D. Yep...me too...Serious history begins around grade 5 ...science Grade 7. Before then, we read lots of books, focus on skill subjects...and enjoy learning to learn. I use many of the recommended books in the WTM, but certainly do not stick to the schedules.

 

Hth,

Faithe

 

Yes, Faithe, it does help to know that we have time to enjoy the journey, but still arrive at our destination.

 

I am too heavy in the academics. I know I am. I like your list. Well, except for the "be outside in nature". When Dh and I made a list of goals for our homeschool, we had 11 focus points listed before we got to academics. On a busy day, I put off Bible of all things. I justify it by saying they know those stories (and they do), but what kind of message does that send? After reading your list, I want to go back over the list Dh and I made before planning out next year's schedule.

 

Tracy, why the "except be outside in nature?" LOL, are you the I-hate-bugs type? When I send the white & green salt water taffy, I'll put a few ants in the box, LOL! HA HA. Or send your kids an ant farm, so they know what "nature" is. ;) I have to admit, the girls were running around for a few hours yesterday, but I kept moving my chair to chase the little patch of shade. Our neighbors cut their trees down last summer. :glare: Sigh, their trees were our shade. What can you do? Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the real heart of the matter with our girls -- and we need to do more than simply push through the academic work. That is important, I know, and we do plenty for their ages. But there is so much more to being a child, being a person, being a Christian -- and we want that for them. So that is why I decided to pray about it and see where the Holy Spirit leads.

 

 

You're actually homeschooling, getting to know your kids better, maturing and changing. You're making homeschooling your own. That's a good thing! NOT to say that any philosophy is lesser in any way, but I just see this as you getting more comfortable.

 

Thank you for those words of encouragement!

 

You know the Drawing With Children book rec'd. in grammar stage art in WTM? Well, I liked the idea of using it, and I liked the book. So we did use it. But it did end up taking me three years to finish it with my kids - my oldest was at the end of grade 5 by then! :D Not saying you should do formal art with your kids next year - just giving you an example of some WTMish plans that I wanted to accomplish spread wwwaaaaayyyyyy out at my house.

 

"formal" science - have you listened to SWB's science audio lecture? It might help take some anxiety away. It's more about the teaching of science skills in each level than about the perfect laid out study plan.

 

Thanks, Colleen. Yes, I can see what you are getting at -- take the goals and work through them, a bit at a time. It still gets accomplished.

 

As for the art, I think part of my problem stems from (a) not knowing it myself and (b) limited space (our home is very tiny). But your post makes me think that we could "do art" on a seasonal basis. Why not? Why not simply do art every May--June, when the weather is decent enough most days to do it outside in the morning? The girls would love that, and we have an old table set up in the garage that we could pull out.

 

I like that "thinking out of the box," Colleen, it helps me to realize that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Thanks!

[Colleen in NS]

Thanks, Colleen. Yes, I can see what you are getting at -- take the goals and work through them, a bit at a time. It still gets accomplished.

 

As for the art, I think part of my problem stems from (a) not knowing it myself and (b) limited space (our home is very tiny). But your post makes me think that we could "do art" on a seasonal basis. Why not? Why not simply do art every May--June, when the weather is decent enough most days to do it outside in the morning? The girls would love that, and we have an old table set up in the garage that we could pull out.

 

I like that "thinking out of the box," Colleen, it helps me to realize that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Thanks!

 

And here is one more thought that just occurred to me. So, DWC is a tool you can use to teach yourself and your kids some drawing techniques while they are young. I loved using it, am glad we did, etc.. Some of the skills we learned it in come in handy in other areas (observation in science, for example; or potentially more attention to cursive practice, etc.). HOWEVER. I also began last year looking ahead into the logic stage book rec for drawing - Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. You know what? I don't believe DWC is so much a prerequisite to DRSB as it is simply a fun drawing instruction book geared to younger kids. My point? Even if you never got to DWC in the next few years, and you still wanted to learn/teach drawing, you can move right into DRSB when your kids get older. At least that's my impression from starting to read through the book. It's drawing lessons geared for older people. A little more in-depth than DWC, but I think it develops the same "seeing" skills.

 

And yes, you can certainly do it seasonally. Really, if I had wanted to put my mind to it, I probably could have taught us from DWC with a month off from other things. You could even do a concentrated course in it in a few weeks, I think! All sorts of ways to approach this. For me it just kept sliding down the priority list with the other school stuff.

 

hth

[Soror]

I am still trying to sort my philosophy I think and I only imagine that as I add more children what our schooling looks like will change. We will have to learn to balance them all and they are all so very different. I think I am somewhere between CM and WTM, liking ideas of both. I am just now working on our schedule for next year and I have no formal art appreciation or music appreciation planned. I just decided something had to give though, we will look at pictures and such and have an informal this is such and such painting by this and that artist but I am not spending a bunch of time on it. I am *trying* to work on spending time on things that are the most important and interest them the most and make it easier for me. We are doing units for Science, I like the idea of WTM and the idea of interest driven but in reality not being planned out means it doesn't happen. I need the bulk of the work done now. I have time now to plan out things on my own, but I also realize that it won't always be the case and I am keeping my eye on programs that are spelled out more for me.

[jenangelcat]

I started off on the unschool train but I find that a more Charlotte Mason/WTM method works better for my oldest and myself because it suits our personalities better. Whether this will hold true for my younger two remains to be seen.

 

I truly believe that no method is better than any other. Kids learn differently and parents teach/guide differently. What works for us may be horrible for someone else. So I say we are eclectic because we don't really follow any method fully.

[Sahamamama]

I read somewhere that SWB wrote WTM when her oldest was 6. I think she basically asked her Mom to help her lay out a 12 year plan back then, and then her agent asked to see her plan, so he could see if he could turn it into a marketable book.

 

I just noticed this in your first post. For some reason, this never occurred to me, but it really puts it all in perspective. When WTM first came out in 1999 (12 years ago), yes, I think Christopher would have been six, Ben was four, and Dan was 1 or 2. Emily wasn't even born. (We've met her and she is the sweetest kid ever). So for Susan, WTM was more of a "how I'd like to do this" than "how I've done this" type of manuscript. But I suppose Jessie was the voice of experience then.

 

I feel so much better now. :001_smile: I wonder what SWB would write or recommend differently, or how the structure of WTM would change if she wrote it all over from scratch (the recent editions updated the resources).

 

Thanks, Colleen.

[justamouse]

I just noticed this in your first post. For some reason, this never occurred to me, but it really puts it all in perspective. When WTM first came out in 1999 (12 years ago), yes, I think Christopher would have been six, Ben was four, and Dan was 1 or 2. Emily wasn't even born. (We've met her and she is the sweetest kid ever). So for Susan, WTM was more of a "how I'd like to do this" than "how I've done this" type of manuscript. But I suppose Jessie was the voice of experience then.

 

I feel so much better now. :001_smile: I wonder what SWB would write or recommend differently, or how the structure of WTM would change if she wrote it all over from scratch (the recent editions updated the resources).

 

Thanks, Colleen.

 

 

Huh. I wonder if she ever feels as if Pandora's Box was ripped open?

 

But then she has the editions to tweak, which is cool.

[Meriwether]

 

Tracy, why the "except be outside in nature?" LOL, are you the I-hate-bugs type? When I send the white & green salt water taffy, I'll put a few ants in the box, LOL! HA HA. Or send your kids an ant farm, so they know what "nature" is. ;) I have to admit, the girls were running around for a few hours yesterday, but I kept moving my chair to chase the little patch of shade. Our neighbors cut their trees down last summer. :glare: Sigh, their trees were our shade. What can you do? Anyway, I have been thinking lately about the real heart of the matter with our girls -- and we need to do more than simply push through the academic work. That is important, I know, and we do plenty for their ages. But there is so much more to being a child, being a person, being a Christian -- and we want that for them. So that is why I decided to pray about it and see where the Holy Spirit leads.

 

 

 

 

I'll take the salt water taffy; you can keep the ants!:D I don't care for bugs (or being sweaty or feeling cold). But it is more than that. I'm just not good at nature walks. This is a true story. While driving to church last year I said, "Oh, look at that pretty bird, honey. That black one with the red on its wings. What is that called?" There was a moment of silence follewed by a muffled cough (just possibly a laugh smothered by a cough), and then he said, "That is a redwing blackbird.":blushing:

 

That bolded line is oh so true.

[Greenmama2]

II think most people tweak or mix philosophies.

Yes! We are unschoolers. Pretty much radical unschoolers actually but obviously I think this is true or I wouldn't be here :)

 

What you wrote here is so so so very Waldorf:

But I keep coming back to the reality of small children (5, 6, 7 year olds). Mine all seem wired for stories, language, and lots of outdoor play in the sunshine. And it feels right to let them go on watching the praying mantis on the marigolds, rather than bring them in for a "Science lesson" on the muscular system. KWIM? I hope I'm doing the right thing... I do wonder sometimes.

If your children are wired that way then that is how you can most effectively teach them. My eldest *isn't* wired that way which is in part why we are unschoolers not Waldorf homeschoolers. She'd rather do science or maths half the time, but she could definitely spend an hour watching a praying mantis ;)

Read WTM & whatever else you like. Sure, read more of what appeals to you (Waldorf for me) but take WHAT ACTUALLY WORKS for your particular children.

Enjoying this thread btw. Thanks for starting :)

[Colleen in NS]

I wonder what SWB would write or recommend differently, or how the structure of WTM would change if she wrote it all over from scratch (the recent editions updated the resources).

 

Thanks, Colleen.

 

You're welcome. And I think your wonderings are what all her supplemental audio lectures (and WWE/WWS/ALL) are all about. :D WWE, for example, is far less demanding than writing instructions in WTM (as far as amounts of sentences/paragraphs/pages) - yet I think it does a more thorough job of teaching how to think things through.

 

Have fun! (and BTW, my sister just adopted twin newborns a few weeks ago!)

[Sahamamama]

I'll take the salt water taffy; you can keep the ants!:D I don't care for bugs (or being sweaty or feeling cold). But it is more than that. I'm just not good at nature walks. This is a true story. While driving to church last year I said, "Oh, look at that pretty bird, honey. That black one with the red on its wings. What is that called?" There was a moment of silence follewed by a muffled cough (just possibly a laugh smothered by a cough), and then he said, "That is a redwing blackbird.":blushing:

 

That bolded line is oh so true.

 

Oh, you are not so bad, Tracy. When my husband and I were on our HONEYMOON, :001_wub: we went to Lancaster (PA) for a few days (we were on a very tight budget in those days). Anyway, we're driving along by a field of soybeans and he says, "Oh, look, Honey! Corn!"

 

Me: Those are soybeans.

Him: Oh. Soybeans?

Me: Yes. SOY-BEANS. Soybeans.

 

A few miles down the road we pass a field of corn...

 

Him: "Oh, look, Honey! Soybeans!" :coolgleamA: (and he's looking like "Yeah, I'm so cool.")

 

Me: That's corn. :glare:

 

So much for being merciful. I did not marry a farmer, that's for sure. :D

[kalanamak]

Doesn't SWB say the main focus of those ages is the 3R's? I don't think you have to put a LOT of focus on history, science, and art.

 

Science, art, history are FUN for us. When kiddo is older, I'll be more systematic, but taking a bucket of water and guessing what would float or not was a blast today. I didn't know bananas floated. :D