Poll: Are you allowing your kids to fly?

[cathmom]

Even if TSA does a pat down like they've done to kids?? I'm not being rude -- I'm just wondering if you're heard/read what some of these TSA people are doing.

 

One was recently caught/fired for having a horde of child porn.

 

Alley

 

Yes. There is absolutely no way I wouldn't go somewhere because of this.

[astrid]

Whew. Glad to hear it-- with all of you families staying home, there's more of a chance that the dreaded middle row seat will be open when we fly! :D

 

astrid (just flew CT to San Diego and back, no pat downs, no delays, and I never witnessed any pat-downs or anything else objectionable.)

 

a

[LibraryLover]

Whew. Glad to hear it-- with all of you families staying home, there's more of a chance that the dreaded middle row seat will be open when we fly! :D

 

astrid (just flew CT to San Diego and back, no pat downs, no delays, and I never witnessed any pat-downs or anything else objectionable.)

 

a

 

Maybe more first class upgrades!!! :D

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I am adamantly against flying ever again, either myself or my children. My dear husband on the other hand has no problem with me or our children being ether "scanned" or "patted." :glare: He wanted us to go on a company sponsored weekend which would have required us to go through that. I said "no," and he...didn't like that. Thankfully the company decided that the 5 year employees weren't going to be included this year, so we didn't go (driving was not an option.)

 

I chose the middle option because I would go through it for a funeral if there was absolutely no way we could get there in time by driving. And even then I would be very uncooperative :glare:

[stripe]

I also object to being forced to accept a new and poorly tested medical procedure (scanners). This is a massive experiment that may or may not have ramifications for our health.

 

I've not understood yet about the impact on pregnant women, or for that matter, what's the effect on the reproductive system? (I've always had to wear a lead cape over my abdomen for any x-rays not involving my midsection and been under the impression that non-urgent x-rays are not recommended for pregnant women.)

 

I think it's very interesting that other countries such as the Netherlands, handle the scanning issue differently -- their scanners show a generic body (like a cartoon drawing of one) and highlight the area that may cause a problem, and the agent is supposed to investigate, say, the elbow.

[Tarreymere]

I quit my job and became a SAHM rather than continue to fly. It wasn't just the TSA, it is the whole attitude of the industry and the utter contempt that passengers are treated with from the moment of entering the terminal.

[Renee in NC]

I'm really not worried about pat-downs, scanners, or anything else. We would fly if we needed/wanted to fly. Sure, there might be some TSA agent getting his jollies from it, but I don't really care - there are perverts everywhere, not just the airport.:tongue_smilie:

[Rebecca VA]

This is an issue that is very much on my mind. My 14-year-old has been invited to visit a friend in another city. She'll have to fly by herself to get there. She's a pretty girl who is very trusting. I worry that one of the TSA screeners will be tempted to take liberties with her because she won't have an adult looking out for her.

 

I don't want to ruin the chance for my daughter to see her friend, but this scares me very much.

[msjones]

We will fly if it's convenient to do so.

 

I don't care--not one iota--how nice the TSA agents might be or how well trained. I have had negative experiences with TSA agents as well as neutral.

 

It's the principle.

 

Our Constitution protects us against unreasonable search and seizure. The searches will not protect us effectively, and they are being conducted upon people who have not given cause. Our country is subjecting law-abiding citizens to searches as though we are criminals.

 

I also object to being forced to accept a new and poorly tested medical procedure (scanners). This is a massive experiment that may or may not have ramifications for our health.

 

I object to the idea that a stranger gets to see my naked body or that of my child, or that we have to subject to being groped. This is offensive.

 

We will no longer be a free country if we continue to accept the erosion of our personal liberties in the name of "safety."

 

:iagree:

I share your perspective and explained it to my boys. When we fly my choice is to "opt out" of the scanners and put up with the pat down. I have told the boys that I will not cooperate with the scanning as a matter of principle.

 

I have told them they can make the decision that they are most comfortable with.

[Cindyg]

I'm kind of between 1 and 2. DH flies several times a month and says it's no big deal. I am insulted by what's going on with airport security, but I'll fly when I have to. And I don't worry about any of it. Same for my kiddo.

 

ETA: Our airport has the full body scanner, and I've been through it. If I have long-term health issues as a result, I doubt TSA will come support me in my old age.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Cindyg

[Aggie]

I'm really not worried about pat-downs, scanners, or anything else. We would fly if we needed/wanted to fly. Sure, there might be some TSA agent getting his jollies from it, but I don't really care - there are perverts everywhere, not just the airport.:tongue_smilie:

 

But do you give the perverts access to your kids?

 

Sadly, nobody in knowledgeable places seems to think that TSA is doing anything for air safety.

 

As another poster said, the TSA methods are all "window dressing."

 

If these security measures were actually doing some good -- I'd be totally with you! (Who wouldn't??)

 

I can't understand why they don't adopt the methods that Israel -- known for top notch security -- is using.

 

Alley

:iagree:

 

 

We will fly if it's convenient to do so.

 

I don't care--not one iota--how nice the TSA agents might be or how well trained. I have had negative experiences with TSA agents as well as neutral.

 

It's the principle.

 

Our Constitution protects us against unreasonable search and seizure. The searches will not protect us effectively, and they are being conducted upon people who have not given cause. Our country is subjecting law-abiding citizens to searches as though we are criminals.

 

I also object to being forced to accept a new and poorly tested medical procedure (scanners). This is a massive experiment that may or may not have ramifications for our health.

 

I object to the idea that a stranger gets to see my naked body or that of my child, or that we have to subject to being groped. This is offensive.

 

We will no longer be a free country if we continue to accept the erosion of our personal liberties in the name of "safety."

 

Amen.

 

I'm thankful for Rick Perry's stance on the TSA.:thumbup1:

[Amy in NH]

My 16 yo is flying today on a Teen Exchange trip to TX.

[Heather in Neverland]

Yes we do and will continue to fly.

[Renee in NC]

But do you give the perverts access to your kids?

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

You give perverts "access to your kids" everytime you go in public. It isn't as if they are taking them in another room away from you to strip them.:confused: THAT I would get all spider monkey about. Really, 99.99% of TSA agents want to do this about as much as you want them to do this. I find the paranoia about security pat-downs disturbing, especially considering how many people say, "It really isn't like that when you go in the airport." The only people who seem to be insistent that TSA agents are doing this because they "enjoy it" are those who don't even fly!

 

ETA: My 18yo came home from Scotland yesterday and has flown several times recently. My dh has flown several times since the new procedures. It really isn't a big deal.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Renee in FL

[Murmer]

You give perverts "access to your kids" everytime you go in public. It isn't as if they are taking them in another room away from you to strip them.:confused: THAT I would get all spider monkey about. Really, 99.99% of TSA agents want to do this about as much as you want them to do this. I find the paranoia about security pat-downs disturbing, especially considering how many people say, "It really isn't like that when you go in the airport." The only people who seem to be insistent that TSA agents are doing this because they "enjoy it" are those who don't even fly!

 

ETA: My 18yo came home from Scotland yesterday and has flown several times recently. My dh has flown several times since the new procedures. It really isn't a big deal.

 

Renee,

I am so glad that to you it is not a big deal. But to me it is...the potential for my child to be touched...and then on top of that touched in places that mama has told her no one touches, is a recipe for disaster...part of it is my child who is special and highly explosive and oppositional defiant but part of it is that this behavior is expected or not expected but not clearly defined anywhere to so when videos come out of children getting patted down there is no way to know if that is the correct way or the incorrect way. I just picture my child who will not stand for a scanner (which are being used primary at our local airport) and if she were to be touched would go NUTS! (did you read about the autistic man who had his special toy hammer removed by TSA because it was a weapon yeah that would suck if something like that happened to dd) Which means I would be stuck most likely not flying anyway, sorry not worth it. So while it is not a big deal to you, some of our situations make it a very big worrisome deal.

[Renee in NC]

Renee,

I am so glad that to you it is not a big deal. But to me it is...the potential for my child to be touched...and then on top of that touched in places that mama has told her no one touches, is a recipe for disaster...part of it is my child who is special and highly explosive and oppositional defiant but part of it is that this behavior is expected or not expected but not clearly defined anywhere to so when videos come out of children getting patted down there is no way to know if that is the correct way or the incorrect way. I just picture my child who will not stand for a scanner (which are being used primary at our local airport) and if she were to be touched would go NUTS! (did you read about the autistic man who had his special toy hammer removed by TSA because it was a weapon yeah that would suck if something like that happened to dd) Which means I would be stuck most likely not flying anyway, sorry not worth it. So while it is not a big deal to you, some of our situations make it a very big worrisome deal.

 

Then, in your case, your daughter's issues mean you can't fly. In the past, one of my ds's issues would have prevented me from flying with him. It is also possible that my 5yo would lose it, too (just depends on her mood that day.) I am not a stranger to dc with special needs, trust me. It is very unfortunate and difficult when developmental/mental problems complicate life.:grouphug:

 

As for the pat down and telling children about "bad touch" - I have always told my dc (and this is what the doctor says, too), "Sometimes it is necessary for someone to touch/look at your private parts. It is only okay for someone to touch you there if mama or daddy is there and says it is okay." I get that some dc won't understand this, but I try really hard to differentiate between what is okay and what isn't.

[twoforjoy]

As for the pat down and telling children about "bad touch" - I have always told my dc (and this is what the doctor says, too), "Sometimes it is necessary for someone to touch/look at your private parts. It is only okay for someone to touch you there if mama or daddy is there and says it is okay." I get that some dc won't understand this, but I try really hard to differentiate between what is okay and what isn't.

 

Right. I mean, the doctor is going to touch my children in ways that it wouldn't be okay for other people to touch them. That doesn't mean I can't take them to the doctor, for fear they won't understand what a bad touch is.

 

I've been patted down at the airport. It was extremely professional. Nothing about it felt invasive or inappropriate. I would not have any issue with one of my children having that kind of security pat down, and no fear that it would confuse them about appropriate boundaries.

 

But do you give the perverts access to your kids?

 

I'm not going to assume that the TSA employee doing the patdown (in a public area, with me present and my child clothed) has more of a chance of being a "pervert" than my child's doctor. I mean, seriously: do we think people are now going into airport security because they relish the chance of getting to pat down a fully clothed child in the presence of their parents?

 

Now, if they were talking about hauling children off to private rooms, away from their parents, and doing security searches there, I'd see the concern. But I would not have a single qualm about my child being patted down while clothed in my presence.

Edited July 6, 2011 by twoforjoy

[msjones]

As for it being "no big deal," and the agents being "really nice," I imagine a police officer searching your home without a warrant might also be "really nice" about it.

 

It might be "no big deal" after all to have some police just knock on your door and then poke around a bit in a "professional" way. They probably wouldn't even make a mess. And it would be a way keep your neighborhood safer.

 

It would still be a violation of your rights as an American.

 

People keep saying we don't have a right to fly. I completely disagree. The constitution states that we have a right to travel freely; in this day and age traveling freely includes purchasing and using a plane ticket.

[Wabi Sabi]

We avoid flying whenever possible: too expensive, added expense of a rental car once we reach our destination, and most importantly the fact that flying these days is just a huge pain in the rear end.

 

That being said, my 3 y/o dd and I are flying to visit family on Friday. She's excited because it's the first time she's ever been on an airplane. I've given thought to how I'd feel if she has a pat-down. While I would be very annoyed and find it utterly ridiculous I still wouldn't equate it to being groped/molested/touched inappropriately.

[twoforjoy]

As for it being "no big deal," and the agents being "really nice," I imagine a police officer searching your home without a warrant might also be "really nice" about it.

 

It might be "no big deal" after all to have some police just knock on your door and then poke around a bit in a "professional" way. They probably wouldn't even make a mess. And it would be a way keep your neighborhood safer.

 

It would still be a violation of your rights as an American.

 

People keep saying we don't have a right to fly. I completely disagree. The constitution states that we have a right to travel freely; in this day and age traveling freely includes purchasing and using a plane ticket.

 

I'm not sure how airport security violates your rights. The airplane *isn't* your home, so it's not the same thing as a police officer searching your home without a warrant.

 

We have a right to travel, but the government also has the right to regulate how fast we drive and who can operate a vehicle. Our freedom to travel doesn't mean that various regulations can't be put in place for safety reasons.

 

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with all of the security measures being taken, but I don't see where or how they are violating constitutional rights.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I am no a shrinking Violet lemming, but I want to fly. I recently got a scan in Logan, and a pat -down in CA. The pat- down was done right in the open, and it was honestly no big deal to me. Very 'professional', very unemotional. Whether it helps the terrorism efforts remains to be seen. But traumatic to me in any way, shape or form? Heck, no. To make it easier on all, in case, I wore a sleeveless, fitted sundress andof course my sandals were already off :). No big deal. It was the first time I had been sent to either of those lines. It took seconds. If you want to fight the fight to stop these, OK, but I don't think not flying is going to help the cause. And if you want to fly, you might get the pat down, you might not. In case, wear simple clothing. ;) There was no groping. She looked like she wanted to be doing it as much as one wished they were planning to be eaten alive my misquitos.

 

:iagree:

 

Just went through this. On the way out I opted out of the scanner and waited for my pat down, but it never occurred. That was actually a little worrying to me.

 

On the way home I was subjected to the full thing. I do not like being touched by strangers, I mean I REALLY do not like it, but it was no big deal. I was asked if I wanted to go somewhere private and declined. The screener explained every little thing she was doing. I did not feel like I was being molested at all.

 

I really don't get what the OP's husband thinks is happening during these pat downs, it's really not invasive and it is in public so it's not like the screener can take advantage.

[Nestof3]

I'm not up in arms over the issue, so I'd let my kids fly. The fewer freaks on the plane the better.

[msjones]

I'm not sure how airport security violates your rights. The airplane *isn't* your home, so it's not the same thing as a police officer searching your home without a warrant.

 

We have a right to travel, but the government also has the right to regulate how fast we drive and who can operate a vehicle. Our freedom to travel doesn't mean that various regulations can't be put in place for safety reasons.

 

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with all of the security measures being taken, but I don't see where or how they are violating constitutional rights.

 

Of course the airport isn't my home, but my body is my "person." Read the 4th amendment. Here you go (emphasis mine):

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

My earlier post was partly incorrect: the right to travel freely is not described in the Constitution (my careless error). However:

 

As the Supreme Court notes in Saenz v Roe, 98-97 (1999), the Constitution does not contain the word "travel" in any context, let alone an explicit right to travel (except for members of Congress, who are guaranteed the right to travel to and from Congress). The presumed right to travel, however, is firmly established in U.S. law and precedent. In U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966), the Court noted, "It is a right that has been firmly established and repeatedly recognized." In fact, in Shapiro v Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969), Justice Stewart noted in a concurring opinion that "it is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." It is interesting to note that the Articles of Confederation had an explicit right to travel; it is now thought that the right is so fundamental that the Framers may have thought it unnecessary to include it in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.

 

I will not stop flying because of the TSA, but neither will I submit to their procedures without objection. I calmly "opt out" of the scanners as a matter of principle.

 

The original question was about kids and the TSA. My boys have decided that they prefer the scanner over a pat-down. But, I've encouraged them to learn and understand their rights and make their own decisions.

[TheReader]

This is an issue that is very much on my mind. My 14-year-old has been invited to visit a friend in another city. She'll have to fly by herself to get there. She's a pretty girl who is very trusting. I worry that one of the TSA screeners will be tempted to take liberties with her because she won't have an adult looking out for her.

 

I don't want to ruin the chance for my daughter to see her friend, but this scares me very much.

 

Just wanted to let you know, you should still be able to accompany your daughter through security since she will be a minor traveling alone. Check with the airline and/or airport to confirm, but the last time we looked into it parents were still allowed to go through security, wait with the minor child at the gate until the flight takes off, as well as the pick-up adult able to pick the child up at the other end.

 

Also, if she has layovers or transfers, she'll be going from one secure area to another and not required to go through security again (unless international, coming from outside the US into the US).

[eternalknot]

Dh is adamant that our kids won't fly w/ TSA doing their "pat downs." He says he won't let the kids be subject to something that's "just plain wrong."

 

He also says that the TSA issue is a slow erosion of our rights. Ex: they'll start with the airlines, then do the trains, then do the stadiums etc.

 

We have friends who visit Israel often and say that the way security is being handled at airports here is a joke -- that these pat downs aren't protecting anyone like the Israel methods are.

 

Here's my problem: my family is on the opposite coast of us. I'm wondering how the heck we're supposed to visit grandparents??

 

But my real question: is anyone actually not flying because of TSA's methods?

 

Alley

 

I know plenty of people IRL who are opting to not fly; it's important because we live near two major airports (one international, one domestic) and are a major hub for more than one airliner.

 

We've changed how we fly, including avoiding certain airports and driving to smaller regional airports to begin a trip - rather than originating at our larger hub airport. We also fly less, and did put the kids on a flying hiatus when all of the new changes were being unrolled and sorted out. They did miss out on two family events because driving wasn't an option and I knew TSA agents at that specific airport were going to be a problem (and airport logistics made it impossible to get to our gate through any other security entry). Life went on.

 

If push came to shove, though, I'd have my kids patted down before I had them go through the scanner. I have serious reservations about the scanners, and -in fact- I'd quit my job before I went through one, myself. I'd always chose a pat-down for myself, too, opting to turn away from security and my flight if my gut was directing me to in a specific situation. I'd rather go to a police officer for holding, pay a token fine and have my hand slapped than to submit to a situation my instinct is telling me to avoid.

 

I'm fortunate that the TSA often extends a "professional courtesy" to me, even when I'm travelling with my children. We've always been directed towards the metal detector, even when the scanners were in operation.

[DianeW88]

Whew. Glad to hear it-- with all of you families staying home, there's more of a chance that the dreaded middle row seat will be open when we fly! :D

 

:iagree: We can hope!! :lol:

 

And this:

 

You give perverts "access to your kids" everytime you go in public. It isn't as if they are taking them in another room away from you to strip them.:confused: THAT I would get all spider monkey about. Really, 99.99% of TSA agents want to do this about as much as you want them to do this. I find the paranoia about security pat-downs disturbing, especially considering how many people say, "It really isn't like that when you go in the airport." The only people who seem to be insistent that TSA agents are doing this because they "enjoy it" are those who don't even fly!

 

I seriously don't give a rip about the security measures. We fly frequently and it's not any more convenient now than it was several years ago. We are always processed through security quickly and with no one being molested, groped inappropriately or verbally or physically abused. I've been patted down more than once (as have my children) and in no way has it even been CLOSE to anything I would consider remotely inappropriate.

[Annie Laurie]

Two years ago, we drove down to Orlando for our first Disney trip. It was 20 harrowing hours of mostly closed rest stops, alligator jerky stands, and tons of truckers on I10. We were absolutely zapped once we finally got there. Took at least a few days of our vacation to recover.

 

Last year, we said, screw it. Despite all the unpleasantness entailed in flying these days, we went ahead and purchased some tickets on Delta from DFW to MCO, with a connection in ATL.

 

Let me tell you. They could have had us strip, do a pole dance, and re-dress in drag, and I still would have chosen flying over the drive. And I don't even like flying!

 

TSA never patted any of us down, at either DFW or at MCO. We took off our shoes, walked through the scanner, and recollected our things. It took us less time to go through security than it did for me to write this paragraph.

 

In fact, at DFW, we didn't even have a line at the check point. We just walked through. Then, we relaxed at the gate, until boarding time. Pushed back from the gate, took off on time, and after a 1.5 hour flight, landed in ATL, and another 1 hour flight from there, and we were in MCO.

 

It was beautiful. SO MUCH BETTER THAN DRIVING.

 

Rabbit trail...

 

Oh no!! This is what I was afraid of. We're planning on driving to Disney and I was afraid we'd be exhausted when we get there. We are coming from DFW too. Plus, I'll have a 1 yr old, so we're probably crazy to even consider it. My motivation for driving is purely financial- 7 plane tickets are pricey, plus car rental when we get there.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

Dh is adamant that our kids won't fly w/ TSA doing their "pat downs." He says he won't let the kids be subject to something that's "just plain wrong."

 

I can understand the urge, but I think trying to keep the kids from visiting family is more wrong. His anxiety over this can be taken into consideration but he doesn't get to be adamant that your kids never fly when half the family (which just happens to be your family) lives on the other coast.