Denisemomof4 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 but I'm sticking to my guns. Dd11 is a BLESSING of a child to have. She does have this issue, though, where lies don't seem to be much of a problem for her lately. If there's ONE thing I can't STAND- it's a liar. She *KNOWS* this. I don't care whether it's a big lie or a small one, a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie and I *HATE* all lies with a passion! I'm taking dd to PA for a synchro swim competition in PA, 8 hour drive to get there, two nights lodging. It's NOT going to be cheap and it's a lot of work on me. We planned our menu together and are having GREAT food on the way down: Large shrimp, sliced red and green bell peppers, cukes, baby carrots, favorite dressing as a dip, sourdough bread, bagels, lox, cream cheese w/chives, cherries, watermelon. I bought some Everlasting Gobstoppers, bubble gum, and sesame seed/honey candies for treats. Dd has a HUGE sweet tooth and we mostly let her satisfy her cravings by having fruits daily and fairly regular ice cream treats. Well, I could smell that she got into the sesame seed candy while I was pumping gas. I asked her if she had some and she said that she hadn't. I knew it was a lie and it set me off. I was running errands ALL DAY to prepare for her trip and this just set me off!!!!!!!!! I got so angry at her that I told her that she would have NO fruit or candy AT ALL on the trip. It's not that she had the candy without permission that bothered me so much, it was that she lied about it. I do believe I over reacted but really, I just HATE a liar! Can you get my drift? I wish I had told her NO CANDY AT ALL, but I added in the fruit because of the sweetness. So now I'm going to stick to it no matter what. I told her no fruit or candy so that's what it will be. I've been dealing with a HUGE guilt trip ever since. If there's one thing I will discipline too harshly for, it will be lying. I do it in the moment because I just have such an issue with it. Siiiiiiiiiiiiigh. I'm not going to change this now, but honestly....... do you think I over reacted? I kind of wish I had given her SOME fruit but no candy, but I'm sticking to my guns this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 If the fruit is part of her regular meals, I would suggest changing your mind on that, but I wouldn't even bring the candy. That's not backing down, that's making a good parenting decision. If she eats it only to satisfy a sweet-tooth craving, I would not feel guilty about the decision. If you can live without it, I'd leave the fruit home too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 If the fruit is part of her regular meals, I would suggest changing your mind on that, but I wouldn't even bring the candy. That's not backing down, that's making a good parenting decision. If she eats it only to satisfy a sweet-tooth craving, I would not feel guilty about the decision. If you can live without it, I'd leave the fruit home too. it's a sweet tooth craving *AND* an I love fruit thing. I will be leaving both out for her but will be bringing some for me. I've been without fruit, carbs and sugar for 4.5 months and I'm looking forward to cherries and watermelon now that I'm DONE with the Candida diet. I know candy isnt' a good choice but it is something we normally have in moderation if we have a very long car trip like this one will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Denise, I'm like you; I really stick to my guns with discipline, *especially for lying. Unless I went crazy overboard, the punishment is sticking. However, I have one small suggestion for dealing with a liar. I know you didn't ask, so feel free to ignore me. :D But I heard this several years ago, and it really just stuck with me. In the situation with your dd, when you got back in the car and knew that she had eaten the candy, instead of asking 'Did you eat candy?', say 'I know you ate some of the candy even though you know you shouldn't have. Why did you do that?' Then give her a chance to respond. In other words, don't ask the child (who has been struggling with lying) a question that you already definitely know the answer to. It's just setting them up to lie. Instead, flat out state what they did wrong, and then ask them to explain why they disobeyed. Of course, they could still lie and say they didn't do it, but they're much less likely to once you've already stated flatly that you KNOW they did. It may help a child break the habit of lying. Just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I wouldn't give an inch. She lied. I hate lies too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I wouldn't give an inch. She lied. I hate lies too. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I also hate lies. However, if I truly felt that I overreacted, I would go to her and admit that and make whatever adjustment to what I felt the proper punishment *should* have been. Your own honesty in this situation will go a long way in setting the example. Are you sure she *ate it*? Or did she just open it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Denise, I'm like you; I really stick to my guns with discipline, *especially for lying. Unless I went crazy overboard, the punishment is sticking. However, I have one small suggestion for dealing with a liar. I know you didn't ask, so feel free to ignore me. :D But I heard this several years ago, and it really just stuck with me. In the situation with your dd, when you got back in the car and knew that she had eaten the candy, instead of asking 'Did you eat candy?', say 'I know you ate some of the candy even though you know you shouldn't have. Why did you do that?' Then give her a chance to respond. In other words, don't ask the child (who has been struggling with lying) a question that you already definitely know the answer to. It's just setting them up to lie. Instead, flat out state what they did wrong, and then ask them to explain why they disobeyed. Of course, they could still lie and say they didn't do it, but they're much less likely to once you've already stated flatly that you KNOW they did. It may help a child break the habit of lying. Just an idea. :iagree: 100%!!! Don't set them up to lie. State what happened and go from there. I would totally leave the candy home. I'm not too sure on the fruit, though. I love fruit and being on the road can make the "system" cranky, and fruit can help keep things regular... ;) I also like the idea about modeling the honesty by admitting your over reacted. Continually let her see that lying brings bad consequences, honesty rarely ends the world as we know it. (Lying, OTOH, *can* end the world as we know it when the truth comes out. And it always comes out.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Denise, I'm like you; I really stick to my guns with discipline, *especially for lying. Unless I went crazy overboard, the punishment is sticking. However, I have one small suggestion for dealing with a liar. I know you didn't ask, so feel free to ignore me. :D But I heard this several years ago, and it really just stuck with me. In the situation with your dd, when you got back in the car and knew that she had eaten the candy, instead of asking 'Did you eat candy?', say 'I know you ate some of the candy even though you know you shouldn't have. Why did you do that?' Then give her a chance to respond. In other words, don't ask the child (who has been struggling with lying) a question that you already definitely know the answer to. It's just setting them up to lie. Instead, flat out state what they did wrong, and then ask them to explain why they disobeyed. Of course, they could still lie and say they didn't do it, but they're much less likely to once you've already stated flatly that you KNOW they did. It may help a child break the habit of lying. Just an idea. This is *EXCELLENT* advice. I just have to trust myself to actually do this. In the heat of the moment, it's like a knee jerk reaction to lying. It just sends me over the roof. I hope I can keep even tempered to handle things this way next time. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Stick to your guns. Not eating fruit for the trip isn't going to be the end of the world. Following through on the punishment let's her know that you are not a liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Are you sure she *ate it*? Or did she just open it? oh, she ate it and she bribed her sister not to tell by giving her some, too. Her sister had already been put on food restriction for lunch (just peanut butter sandwich) for bad behavior so this even made me more mad. The smell in the car was so strong that there was just NO way they weren't chewing on it. And, they both admitted to it. My dog ate half a loaf of bread when I got home. Like SHE is getting dinner tonight.:glare: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Overreacted? Maybe. But who of us hasn't. Forgive yourself. I have to say, though, I agree about leaving the candy at home. Even if you really want it. Sometimes us moms have to sacrifice, even if it doesn't seem fair. I think it's important that you do what you said you are going to do. Especially since the whole issue is based on saying what is true. As far as the fruit, she doesn't need that extra carb boost if she's going to be sitting in the car all day, she won't be burning many calories. I would, however, allow a small portion of fruit at meal time (I'm thinking dinner, after you've arrived) as part of a healthy, balanced meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoKat Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Lying is one of my "buttons" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoKat Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I wouldn't give an inch. She lied. I hate lies too. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't think that when you ask a child if they did something they shouldn't have that you're setting them up to lie. They are setting themselves up to lie when they choose to do something they know is wrong and are clearly old enough to think ahead to how they will respond when mom finds out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 oh, she ate it and she bribed her sister not to tell by giving her some, too. Her sister had already been put on food restriction for lunch (just peanut butter sandwich) for bad behavior so this even made me more mad. The smell in the car was so strong that there was just NO way they weren't chewing on it. And, they both admitted to it. My dog ate half a loaf of bread when I got home. Like SHE is getting dinner tonight.:glare: :lol: Oh my word! :lol: Well, at least they admitted it. I have had a boy with chocolate icing his lips look me in the eye and swear he "hasn't had chocolate since Christmas!" Yeah. Newsflash, now you FOR SURE won't have any UNTIL Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I also agree with not setting her up to lie. DH and I are big on that. When you hate something so much- chances are, you will over react, and you might even attract it. If instead of hating it (and at least just hate the lie, not the liar), you could find some compassion for the child who is compulsively driven to lie, and towards sweets. Some empathy for her situation, her immature developing character. I am always wary of anything I hate so much- I don't like to hate- and I think it is too strong a word for such a thing. It feels righteous to hate what is "wrong" such as a lie, but I don't think it is necessarily kind or compassionate or useful in the big scheme of things. I wouldn't let it spoil your weekend with her, at all. It really is small fry- a kid eating sweets? I would allow some space for expecting that sort of thing- though not condoning it. It's not worth upsetting yourself, or your newly built sweet connection with her. Forgive her for trying to cover up to try to protect herself from your anger. If you do explode sometimes, its natural a kid would learn to lie to try to protect themselves from that- it's intense on a child's nervous system. And they can't help wanting what they want- and most adults cant control their compulsiveness, let alone an 11yo. Its not that you condone it, but you have to forgive it. And forgive yourself for exploding too, and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I also agree with not setting her up to lie. DH and I are big on that. When you hate something so much- chances are, you will over react, and you might even attract it. If instead of hating it (and at least just hate the lie, not the liar), you could find some compassion for the child who is compulsively driven to lie, and towards sweets. Some empathy for her situation, her immature developing character. I am always wary of anything I hate so much- I don't like to hate- and I think it is too strong a word for such a thing. It feels righteous to hate what is "wrong" such as a lie, but I don't think it is necessarily kind or compassionate or useful in the big scheme of things. I wouldn't let it spoil your weekend with her, at all. It really is small fry- a kid eating sweets? I would allow some space for expecting that sort of thing- though not condoning it. It's not worth upsetting yourself, or your newly built sweet connection with her. Forgive her for trying to cover up to try to protect herself from your anger. If you do explode sometimes, its natural a kid would learn to lie to try to protect themselves from that- it's intense on a child's nervous system. And they can't help wanting what they want- and most adults cant control their compulsiveness, let alone an 11yo. Its not that you condone it, but you have to forgive it. And forgive yourself for exploding too, and move on. Wow, I just love this post. Fantastic! I want to remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Only one out of my three children was prone to telling untruths. I read, prayed, and thought a fair amount about lying, and I have noticed that the people who most hate lying are also the people with control issues. I do think I was more controlling with my oldest child than I was with the others. I wonder if that contributed to the tendency to lie. In my mind it's a chicken/egg thing. I don't know whether I learned to hate lying because I had a child prone to it, or whether I had a child who learned to lie because he wanted self direction I wasn't giving. Probably a combo. But either way, even recognizing that on the other side of hating lying was someone who hated not having control, I still don't like lying. So I don't think you did anything really wrong. I do think it is helpful to reflect long term on whether there are control issues on your part associated with hating lying so much. But short term, I do think you are find to not give her sweets as a consequence. I mean, it's just sweets, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I also agree with not setting her up to lie. DH and I are big on that. When you hate something so much- chances are, you will over react, and you might even attract it. If instead of hating it (and at least just hate the lie, not the liar), you could find some compassion for the child who is compulsively driven to lie, and towards sweets. Some empathy for her situation, her immature developing character. I am always wary of anything I hate so much- I don't like to hate- and I think it is too strong a word for such a thing. It feels righteous to hate what is "wrong" such as a lie, but I don't think it is necessarily kind or compassionate or useful in the big scheme of things. I wouldn't let it spoil your weekend with her, at all. It really is small fry- a kid eating sweets? I would allow some space for expecting that sort of thing- though not condoning it. It's not worth upsetting yourself, or your newly built sweet connection with her. Forgive her for trying to cover up to try to protect herself from your anger. If you do explode sometimes, its natural a kid would learn to lie to try to protect themselves from that- it's intense on a child's nervous system. And they can't help wanting what they want- and most adults cant control their compulsiveness, let alone an 11yo. Its not that you condone it, but you have to forgive it. And forgive yourself for exploding too, and move on. Wow Peela! A lot of wisdom packed in there. I want to be you when I grow up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't think you overreacted as far as the consequence goes. (You might have overreacted in how you told her the consequence but I wasn't there;)) Candy is an extra - a privilege. So is fruit for that short of a time. I wouldn't feel badly about not letting her have it. And I don't see why you should punish yourself by not taking any. (Does she have candida type issues since this seems to be such a strong craving for her?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 I also agree with not setting her up to lie. DH and I are big on that. When you hate something so much- chances are, you will over react, and you might even attract it. If instead of hating it (and at least just hate the lie, not the liar), you could find some compassion for the child who is compulsively driven to lie, and towards sweets. Some empathy for her situation, her immature developing character. I am always wary of anything I hate so much- I don't like to hate- and I think it is too strong a word for such a thing. It feels righteous to hate what is "wrong" such as a lie, but I don't think it is necessarily kind or compassionate or useful in the big scheme of things. I wouldn't let it spoil your weekend with her, at all. It really is small fry- a kid eating sweets? I would allow some space for expecting that sort of thing- though not condoning it. It's not worth upsetting yourself, or your newly built sweet connection with her. Forgive her for trying to cover up to try to protect herself from your anger. If you do explode sometimes, its natural a kid would learn to lie to try to protect themselves from that- it's intense on a child's nervous system. And they can't help wanting what they want- and most adults cant control their compulsiveness, let alone an 11yo. Its not that you condone it, but you have to forgive it. And forgive yourself for exploding too, and move on. Exploded is FAR too strong a word. If I used it, that was a complete exaggeration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Only one out of my three children was prone to telling untruths. I read, prayed, and thought a fair amount about lying, and I have noticed that the people who most hate lying are also the people with control issues. I do think I was more controlling with my oldest child than I was with the others. I wonder if that contributed to the tendency to lie. In my mind it's a chicken/egg thing. I don't know whether I learned to hate lying because I had a child prone to it, or whether I had a child who learned to lie because he wanted self direction I wasn't giving. Probably a combo. But either way, even recognizing that on the other side of hating lying was someone who hated not having control, I still don't like lying. So I don't think you did anything really wrong. I do think it is helpful to reflect long term on whether there are control issues on your part associated with hating lying so much. But short term, I do think you are find to not give her sweets as a consequence. I mean, it's just sweets, right? I learned to hate being lied to by being betrayed. Even by my own parents. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't think you overreacted as far as the consequence goes. (You might have overreacted in how you told her the consequence but I wasn't there;)) Candy is an extra - a privilege. So is fruit for that short of a time. I wouldn't feel badly about not letting her have it. And I don't see why you should punish yourself by not taking any. (Does she have candida type issues since this seems to be such a strong craving for her?) well thank you. :001_smile: I value your opinion and no, she doesn't have candida issues. I still do but I'm on a limited treat allowance until after Father's Day. For sugar, that is. Fruit and carbs I'll eat in moderation, daily, after FD. I don't mean to single Jean out, I value EVERYONE'S opinion. I somehow feel I've gotten the go ahead with treats now, though. ;):lol: Dh, also, is insisting on me bringing the treats because he's seen what the past 4.5 months on the candida diet have done to me. :ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Oh, by the way, in our house, the loss of a treat for one doesn't equal the loss of the treat for all... Just sayin'! ;) (Good heavens, no one would EVER have a treat! :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 but I'm sticking to my guns. Dd11 is a BLESSING of a child to have. She does have this issue, though, where lies don't seem to be much of a problem for her lately. If there's ONE thing I can't STAND- it's a liar. She *KNOWS* this. I don't care whether it's a big lie or a small one, a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie and I *HATE* all lies with a passion! I'm taking dd to PA for a synchro swim competition in PA, 8 hour drive to get there, two nights lodging. It's NOT going to be cheap and it's a lot of work on me. We planned our menu together and are having GREAT food on the way down: Large shrimp, sliced red and green bell peppers, cukes, baby carrots, favorite dressing as a dip, sourdough bread, bagels, lox, cream cheese w/chives, cherries, watermelon. I bought some Everlasting Gobstoppers, bubble gum, and sesame seed/honey candies for treats. Dd has a HUGE sweet tooth and we mostly let her satisfy her cravings by having fruits daily and fairly regular ice cream treats. Well, I could smell that she got into the sesame seed candy while I was pumping gas. I asked her if she had some and she said that she hadn't. I knew it was a lie and it set me off. I was running errands ALL DAY to prepare for her trip and this just set me off!!!!!!!!! I got so angry at her that I told her that she would have NO fruit or candy AT ALL on the trip. It's not that she had the candy without permission that bothered me so much, it was that she lied about it. I do believe I over reacted but really, I just HATE a liar! Can you get my drift? I wish I had told her NO CANDY AT ALL, but I added in the fruit because of the sweetness. So now I'm going to stick to it no matter what. I told her no fruit or candy so that's what it will be. I've been dealing with a HUGE guilt trip ever since. If there's one thing I will discipline too harshly for, it will be lying. I do it in the moment because I just have such an issue with it. Siiiiiiiiiiiiigh. I'm not going to change this now, but honestly....... do you think I over reacted? I kind of wish I had given her SOME fruit but no candy, but I'm sticking to my guns this time. Oh, Denise, bless your heart. I could have written the above. I've always been against lying. That is one thing I do NOT tolerate. White lies, black lies if there is such a thing...or big, little....lying is lying. I do believe it's a character trait that if it isn't dealt with will snowball. It could be the precursor to other issues. Nope, it's not acceptable in our house. When dd lies, we give her a consequence. She is not a robot and we can not force her to not lie, but we can model truthfulness in all situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 oh, she ate it and she bribed her sister not to tell by giving her some, too. Her sister had already been put on food restriction for lunch (just peanut butter sandwich) for bad behavior so this even made me more mad. The smell in the car was so strong that there was just NO way they weren't chewing on it. And, they both admitted to it. My dog ate half a loaf of bread when I got home. Like SHE is getting dinner tonight.:glare: :lol: Hmm....this is two instances of using food as punishment. Perhaps she has some control issues with food? I try not to use food as a punishment, I think it sets up bad things later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Hmm....this is two instances of using food as punishment. Perhaps she has some control issues with food? I try not to use food as a punishment, I think it sets up bad things later. I was going to say this. ETA: The reason I hadn't said it yet was b/c I didn't want it to sound judgmental. While I try not to use food as a punishment, I'm sure there are times when I do. And maybe this was a coincidence and not normal for you either. Just something for you to think about if you feel it is relevant. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I was going to say this. ETA: The reason I hadn't said it yet was b/c I didn't want it to sound judgmental. While I try not to use food as a punishment, I'm sure there are times when I do. And maybe this was a coincidence and not normal for you either. Just something for you to think about if you feel it is relevant. :) ITA with not using food as a consequence EXCEPT when it is logical. And this one seems logical. ::think:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think an appropriate consequence is taking away the candy. Taking away a valuable source of nutrients, a normal food, an actual food group that should comprise a large amount of a growing child's diet, that seems controlling and a bit silly. I think that was not a logical consequence you would have come up with if you were thinking clearly, is it? If not, then you spoke in anger, and said something you didn't really mean. That is just as bad a character trait as lying. And I personally think that it would model good behavior to her if you apologized for speaking in anger, and said that although the candy will not be allowed because she lied, and because she can't be trusted with it, you will allow fruit as a normal part of her diet. I really don't think using food as a weapon is a good idea at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 ITA with not using food as a consequence EXCEPT when it is logical. And this one seems logical. ::think:: I think not allowing her to have candy is logical. I think not allowing fruit as a normal part of a meal is excessive and illogical. And "restricting" a child to peanut butter and jelly as a punishment seems odd to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yes. :iagree: Candy to me was logical. Fruit wasn't. (I think I might have said that earlier... I don't know though... Maybe I just thought it???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think for a 2-3 day trip, not having fruit will not stunt her growth. I highly doubt I had fruit every day when I was a kid, and I turned out great. :001_smile: Besides, there's plenty of veggies that are botanically fruit. Bring some grape tomatoes--those are sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think not allowing her to have candy is logical. I think not allowing fruit as a normal part of a meal is excessive and illogical. And "restricting" a child to peanut butter and jelly as a punishment seems odd to me. :iagree: I don't know anything at all about the OP but this thread seems to indicate food being used as a consequence/punishment a lot. I think that's a very bad idea - especially for young girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'll preface my post by saying that I don't view all lies as being equal, and that you'll want to take that into consideration as you read further. My kids see me lie to the grocery clerk that I'm having a good day; to my MIL that I love the hideous shirt she bought me; to my husband that his attempt at spaghetti squash was ... tasty, despite being barely edible. I definitely distinguish lies, somewhat by type but always by intent. Your daughter's intent was to decieve you - and even in my book, that is disrespectful. In our home, the child would be disciplined for attempting to deceive me (as opposed to for lying). The discipline would reflect that, more than it would the actual action (eating the sesame). My kids need to see a co-relation between their wrong and my making it right, if they're going to learn the lesson I desire. If they can't connect the dots, all they're learning is that -in their opinion- I'm a crazy mean mother on a punishment rampage. Even when they CAN connect the dots, they may initially think that LOL but once they've thought it over and we've discussed it ... they can see the appropriatness of the discipline to their action, and they accept it. And agree with it or not, they take more from the lesson than they would have otherwise. I know this because I was just like them. They are the children my parents wished upon me ;) I have a wonderful friend who also is big on the lying platform. It's her thing. She hates it, and understandably so - she's been lied to and betrayed throughout her tragic life. She disciplines harshly for it, admittedly, and knows it's a trigger for her. Poor woman has a child who will lie about her very own name if asked by a stranger, for no reason other than she wishes she were Rainbow instead of Isabella. I empathize with you because I know what a challenge it is for my friend. It's definitely a journey, ever in progress. We all have our platforms, and we're all walking down a journey of some type or kind. We'll all over-react; knowing our triggers is a great start down the long, winding path. You know your trigger is lying, but what is hers? What's behind her impulsivity? Is she like that in general, or just with sweets such as in this situation? I'm curious - what would her discipline have been for eating the sesame candies had she confessed when you first asked? Would it have been any less harsh? If the punishment were likely to be the same (in her eyes), maybe she felt she had nothing to lose by lying. I think your challenge is to approach this from two angles - the immediate (she ate the candies without permission) and the long-term (she attempted to deceive you by lying). If she sees them as being one and the same, which is how it was handled, there really isn't much incentive for her to be honest. Even knowing how much you dislike liars, which - well, suffice it to say we want her to distinguish between the two. It does no child any good to start thinking she is what her parent hates more than anything. Not that you'd make her feel that way, but this is how children sometimes internalize things, you know? I think we've all BTDT in some regard with our own parents or mentors. If you feel you need to stick to your guns this time, do so. Maybe also take the opportunity to have a loose game plan for the next time something like this occurs. What might an immediate discipline be (for the transgression) within context of what your long-term plan of action (for lying with intent to deceive)? Immediate: no candy for the duration of the trip, and you're not to be left alone with it. Guess who's gonna be my shadow for a few days. Long-term: (a) if she lies when asked, you simply don't believe her word. about anything. not rubbing it in, not being condescending, just simply verifying everything she says with someone else. (b) if she's honest when asked, you acknowledge her truthfulness and then calmly explain what the immediate consequence is. If your child is motivated by such, you could even add in what her punishment would have been otherwise, had she lied on top of eating the candy. It's all about discipline, though, teaching her what you want since she obviously isn't coming by it intuitively or through your current approach (of punishment). Some kids just need their hands held about what to do, when, and how. Mine included, BTW. And finally, :grouphug:. I've spend hours and money and energy doing wonderful things for my kids (the way you did for this weekend) and when they do something like that it just feels like a small slap on the cheek of everything I try to do for them. It's like, seriously??! Don't you realize the magic that had to happen for me to pull this whole shebang together, and you're gonna ruin it for a few early gnoshes of sesame??! Sigh. So I definitely see why you were ripe for an over-reaction, on top of lying being one of your triggers as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Overreacted? I think the consequences weren't too bad. As long as she really did eat the candy and not just open it to look at it. I think setting up a kid to lie is not good. Also I think blowing up at the situation isn't good. You recognize it is a trigger for yourself. If it happens again, it is okay to say "I am so angry. I will need a few minutes to calm down and think about this." Then you can make sure you are picking the consequences you really feel are appropriate and not just what you say in anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) I think that the benefit of the lesson she may learn will outweigh her being without fruit for a few days. Maybe you did over-react, but at this point, you have to decide if it's worth backing down on your punishment. She's more likely to take you seriously next time if you stick to your word. You're impressing upon her the importance of telling the truth. Will she see you as "lying" if you go back on your word? Stick to your guns. I'm with you. It's one thing to do something wrong. It's easier for me to understand an impulsive action. It's another to lie about it, even worse to lie about it when asked directly. UGH. Have a FUN trip! Someone else will be enjoying the candy, but the lack of candy on the trip may make a lasting impression. :auto: Edited June 3, 2011 by Kristine out of lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Hmm....this is two instances of using food as punishment. Perhaps she has some control issues with food? I try not to use food as a punishment, I think it sets up bad things later. actually it was dd8 who was on the peanut butter, not dd11. Dd8 has special issues and I discipline her in ways I haven't my other children. She has an attachment disorder and I have to discipline her in ways I never have my other children. It's the way it has to be, and I won't hesitate to put her on peanut butter for a meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think an appropriate consequence is taking away the candy. Taking away a valuable source of nutrients, a normal food, an actual food group that should comprise a large amount of a growing child's diet, that seems controlling and a bit silly. I think that was not a logical consequence you would have come up with if you were thinking clearly, is it? If not, then you spoke in anger, and said something you didn't really mean. That is just as bad a character trait as lying. And I personally think that it would model good behavior to her if you apologized for speaking in anger, and said that although the candy will not be allowed because she lied, and because she can't be trusted with it, you will allow fruit as a normal part of her diet. I really don't think using food as a weapon is a good idea at all. oh my heavens, this is getting to be a bit much. I didn't say something out of anger that I didn't mean. I *did* feel a bit like I was being too harsh but really, as time has gone on, I don't feel that anymore. The guilt has worn off as I've spent the night preparing for our trip. Food as a weapon - I'm too tired to touch on that. But if you have an adopted child with severe issues, you just may parent them and discipline them differently. You may never WANT to, but you may find that it's necessary, and you may also find that therapists will also tell you normal parenting and normal discipline measures won't work. So the peanut butter for my dd8 won't be addressed again in this thread again, thankyouverymuch. I'm not attacking you personally, just putting my very exhausted foot down on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think not allowing her to have candy is logical. I think not allowing fruit as a normal part of a meal is excessive and illogical. And "restricting" a child to peanut butter and jelly as a punishment seems odd to me. :iagree: I was going to say something similar. I don't think that the OP is wrong to be upset about lying, but food should be kept to as neutral an area as possible. To teach children to associate it with positive or negative feelings, is to potentially create a love/hate relationship with food. It's a minefield, psychologically speaking. Essentially, if you are using food restrictions as punishment, you are also training a child to see food, especially LOTS of food, as a reward. I am not comfortable with how closely linked this attitude is with behaviors such as hoarding food and hiding how much one eats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think for a 2-3 day trip, not having fruit will not stunt her growth. I highly doubt I had fruit every day when I was a kid, and I turned out great. :001_smile: Besides, there's plenty of veggies that are botanically fruit. Bring some grape tomatoes--those are sweet. :iagree::iagree::iagree:100% and dd will enjoy all her favorite veggies that she requested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 :iagree: I don't know anything at all about the OP but this thread seems to indicate food being used as a consequence/punishment a lot. I think that's a very bad idea - especially for young girls. :svengo: that's a bit of a jump there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 BTW, I can't finish this thread tonight but will tomorrow while in my hotel rooom with dd sleeping beside me. The fruit was for the CAR RIDE mainly. I don't bring fruits for the competition, not much anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 :svengo: that's a bit of a jump there. You mentioned food being used as a consequence twice for two different children and at the time I didn't know one had unique needs. I don't think its a jump if there were no special needs involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 You mentioned food being used as a consequence twice for two different children and at the time I didn't know one had unique needs. I don't think its a jump if there were no special needs involved. But you feel you must judge based on two instances? Do you live there? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 But you feel you must judge based on two instances? Do you live there? :confused: Wow! No, I don't. I think I even said in my original post that I don't know her. I was agreeing and trying to gently (obviously didn't work) point out that it might backfire to use food as punishment. I didn't know about special needs at the time because they weren't mentioned. Sorry if I offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiopianFood Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 You're fine, Denise. You're doing just fine. Period. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 But you feel you must judge based on two instances? Do you live there? :confused: You know, making judgments based upon observation of available evidence, is a necessary part of the critical thinking process. Something of which this board should be reasonably tolerant. It is not FL Mom's fault if she was not given the full picture. She (and others) concluded that there was a possible cause for concern, and she expressed it. She didn't say the OP was a bad mother or anything like that. She just said that the use of food as punishment is probably not a good idea, especially with girls. What if I said, I was angry at my son because he hit another child over the head with a large stick, and I turned around and used the same stick to pop him in the rear end? ...And then later told you that my son was playing hockey at the time, had full padding on at the time, and the stick in question was the flat end of his own hockey stick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't know about the rest of you, but I crave sugar when I'm low in calcium. Denise, consider putting your dd on a calcium&magnesium supplement if tweaking her diet isn't feasible just now. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't understand the "don't set them up to lie" idea. I think that practice answering hard questions truthfully even if the answer gets a little one in trouble is very, very important. Talk about major life lessons. Always going out of your way to avoid the wrong questions seems to ignore the issue that a child is lying. You don't change your behavior to skirt the problem, you try again and teach your child not to lie when questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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