Is this insulting?

[Dad 4 Boys]

Like most things in life, it's a matter of perspective and point of view. In the 70s and 80s, NBA basketball star Darryl Dawkins nicknamed himself "Chocolate Thunder". It was a tribute to his powerful dunk technique, which resulted in multiple broken backboards during games.

 

I'm quite sure he didn't find the term chocolate to be racially offensive.

[deacongirl]

As a white person, I don't think it's really my place to decide if it's insulting or not. My feelings on that are irrelevant, because it wasn't said about me. If she's insulted, then I'm not going to say she doesn't have a right to be.

 

Well said.:iagree:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

When I (as a white woman) hear the term "chocolate" in reference to a black person, I think of a super yummy hawt black man/woman. I don't use the term myself, but in my mind, it is not offensive.

 

:iagree:

[Kimberly in IN]

As a white person, I don't think it's really my place to decide if it's insulting or not. My feelings on that are irrelevant, because it wasn't said about me. If she's insulted, then I'm not going to say she doesn't have a right to be.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I have 2 dd who are a different race than I am. I do not get a vote on what is or is not insulting to them, concerning race issues. It is also very insulting when another causcasion person tells them not to be insulted b/c original speaker was making a joke, didn't mean it be insulting or whatever.

[Parrothead]

Oh please...they're comparing the chocolate to her diva-ness, not her race. She's got issues.......

This is what I thought too.

 

The little kid that compares a black person to chocolate is just being a normal little kid.

 

The adult that does it is being a bit weird.

 

The ad as written is not comparing skin color to chocolate. It is comparing her diva-ness. And if she continues on I think the chocolate will lose out in the diva category.

[littleWMN]

I find it offensive, I am a white mama with black children. I think the hard part to understand is that there is a racial history with many things. So while the ad may have been innocent in pitch meetings there is an undertone that is cultural that may cause black people to be offended by the comparision of chocolate to a black model regardless of the actually intention. It has to do with historical context and past hurts...its like when someone breaks my trust and then we forgive but I am quicker to read into actions done as breaking trust because it has happened once. There is a history of racial prejudice/stereotypes/discrimination that only started to fade 30-40 years ago and is not yet completely gone and therefore there are many inadvertant (and purposeful) hurts being done to that community that as a white person I may not understand.

 

:iagree:

[mommaduck]

Whoopie used it on Jimmy Kimmel recently...she brought in a box of baked goods and made a reference about the chocolate ones...they're chocolate, like her or some such comment :) I don't think any of my black friends would be offended by it either, in fact, they'd probably use it. However, I don't believe the reference had anything to do with Naomi being black, personally...agreeing that it's about her divaness and a friend mentioned that there is connect between the diamonds and an ad she did with diamonds.

[susankenny]

If it were anyone else of color, I might see the race connection. But knowing what a pain in the a$$ Naomi Campbell is - I chalk it up to her diva attitude that is being compared in this ad & nothing to do with her race.

 

 

Susan

[lionfamily1999]

This seems more like a play for attention. Or perhaps she's angry that they're saying her career is over and she's being replaced by candy. I mean, there's a number of reason Campbell could be upset. I don't think she needed to make it a soap box, though.

 

I've heard plenty of black people speak of themselves or describe others as 'chocolate.' The only times I've known someone to be insulted was a matter of how she was referred to, it was personal not general. Some jerk says he wants you to melt in his mouth, not his hand, and you're insulted.

[Hunter's Moon]

 

Yes.

 

Peggy McIntosh on white privilege:

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

 

Tim Wise on the pathology of white privilege:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3812249801848706206#

 

I don't understand why this had to be brought up.

 

Yes, I'm white and I mentioned it in my post.

 

But, I am a minority where I live. Not every white person has "white privilege" and I don't appreciate that being brought up. Where I live, whites are the ones who are shown cruelty.

 

And you can say I'm over reacting because I'm white and the article is about white privilege, but I'm sick of being told how privileged I am when I was constantly harassed and called names in school, and am still soloed out in public when a group of rowdy teens or sometimes even adults decide that I must think I'm better than them because I'm white.

Edited June 1, 2011 by BeatleMania

[cin]

Well, I read the poll wrong. I voted yes, but my vote was not about race, it was about the blood diamonds/diva thing. I think it is inappropriate to mke light of the blood diamonds and Naomi's diva-ish behaviors. If you look at her background just a bit, you'll see that she has been physically abusive to people who work for her or around her.

 

Comparing her skin color to chocolate, to me is NOT insulting. Being compared to something that is beautiful and loved by most wouldn't bother me at all! And, in fact, we have 2 adopted daughters. We affectionately call the older one our milk chocolate babe, and the younger one is our caramel kid. (I joked for a while about wanting a dark chocolate baby, but at 46, I'm DONE with diapers!!)

 

I think that you really have to know the person to know if it's insulting. Some things are obvious, like 'Whale on the Beach" or 'How do you want your coffee? Like the Cook's Face" (spoken in the house I grew up in but NOT by me!). Calling a skinny person Twiggy might be fun, but if that person is ill, or has as metabolism that off the charts and TRIES to gain weight, they may not like it. A woman may like be called curvy, or she may take it to mean fat. Some less than tall men may not mind being called Shorty, some, on the other hand, may feel like you are rubbing salt in an open wound.

 

Just the ramblings of a mama who has NOT had enough sleep for the past several months; some days, like today, it shows more than others!

[ereks mom]

Sigh.

 

I probably would have found an ad describing Naomi Campbell (or anyone else) as "chocolate" offensive.

 

THIS add was describing a *product as luxurious and pampered.

 

Yes, it happens to be a chocolate bar. Yes, surely someone must have seen the potential for controversy before it went out. But they obviously didn't care about any brewhaha or they wouldn't have used any celebrity's name to begin with.

 

If it had been a pink cellphone being advertised, she would have thrown a similar fit.

 

:iagree:

[lionfamily1999]

So, while I can't say whether being called "chocolate" would be offensive to me (unless called "white chocolate" :lol:) I can say that I would not have picked up on race in seeing that commercial or ad.

I would be offended. White chocolate is disgusting. The odds of my being called super dark chocolate are very slim (but I would take that as a yummy complement), but chances are good I may be called bitter chocolate...:lol:

 

I would pick up on race, sort of. Chocolate, ime, refers to a specific color. I've heard it used generally in a sexually appreciative light (mmmm chocolate) and I've heard it used to describe a person's skin color (milk chocolate, dark chocolate, same way I've heard coffee or coffee heavy on the cream). They're all pretty yummy stuff. Frankly, the descriptive terms I've heard for whites don't tend to be so positive. Fish belly white for example. Even the term ginger tends to have more negative connotations around here than chocolate.

[lionfamily1999]

Well, I read the poll wrong. I voted yes, but my vote was not about race, it was about the blood diamonds/diva thing. I think it is inappropriate to mke light of the blood diamonds and Naomi's diva-ish behaviors. If you look at her background just a bit, you'll see that she has been physically abusive to people who work for her or around her.

 

Comparing her skin color to chocolate, to me is NOT insulting. Being compared to something that is beautiful and loved by most wouldn't bother me at all! And, in fact, we have 2 adopted daughters. We affectionately call the older one our milk chocolate babe, and the younger one is our caramel kid. (I joked for a while about wanting a dark chocolate baby, but at 46, I'm DONE with diapers!!)

 

I think that you really have to know the person to know if it's insulting. Some things are obvious, like 'Whale on the Beach" or 'How do you want your coffee? Like the Cook's Face" (spoken in the house I grew up in but NOT by me!). Calling a skinny person Twiggy might be fun, but if that person is ill, or has as metabolism that off the charts and TRIES to gain weight, they may not like it. A woman may like be called curvy, or she may take it to mean fat. Some less than tall men may not mind being called Shorty, some, on the other hand, may feel like you are rubbing salt in an open wound.

 

Just the ramblings of a mama who has NOT had enough sleep for the past several months; some days, like today, it shows more than others!

Blood diamonds did not even occur to me.

[4them]

I think the tone would matter more than the actual term, IYKWIM. I've only ever heard the term "chocolate" used in a complimentary way in regards to race, but my experience is limited. I know the tv show Psych throws the term around regularly in reference to Gus, & it's always meant in a positive way.

[twoforjoy]

But, I am a minority where I live. Not every white person has "white privilege" and I don't appreciate that being brought up. Where I live, whites are the ones who are shown cruelty.

 

And you can say I'm over reacting because I'm white and the article is about white privilege, but I'm sick of being told how privileged I am when I was constantly harassed and called names in school, and am still soloed out in public when a group of rowdy teens or sometimes even adults decide that I must think I'm better than them because I'm white.

 

Being a minority doesn't negate white privilege. I'm a white person living in Detroit, and so a minority, racially. That doesn't negate any of the white privilege I have. Nobody gets scared when they see me walking down the street. Just putting my name on a resume isn't going to reduce my chances of getting a job, even though my name indicates my ethnic origins.

 

It's terrible to be harassed or picked on at school, but that's just not the same thing as the kind of systematic, institutional discrimination that blacks face. All kinds of people get picked on at school, for all kinds of reasons; anything that makes you different--having light or dark skin, having curly or straight hair, being fat or thin, being smart or not-so-smart. That doesn't mean that all of those things are also the basis of systematic or institutionalized discrimination, or that there can't also be privilege that goes along with them (for example, you might get picked on for being really thin, but that doesn't negate the fact that there are privileges that go along with being thin, like being able to buy clothes in nearly all stores or having clothes modeled on bodies that look like yours, so you know what they'll look like on you).

 

Which is just to say that while it is never okay to pick on people for any reason, and that sucks, white privilege still exists in contexts where whites are the statistical minority.

[Hunter's Moon]

Being a minority doesn't negate white privilege. I'm a white person living in Detroit, and so a minority, racially. That doesn't negate any of the white privilege I have. Nobody gets scared when they see me walking down the street. Just putting my name on a resume isn't going to reduce my chances of getting a job, even though my name indicates my ethnic origins.

 

It's terrible to be harassed or picked on at school, but that's just not the same thing as the kind of systematic, institutional discrimination that blacks face. All kinds of people get picked on at school, for all kinds of reasons; anything that makes you different--having light or dark skin, having curly or straight hair, being fat or thin, being smart or not-so-smart. That doesn't mean that all of those things are also the basis of systematic or institutionalized discrimination, or that there can't also be privilege that goes along with them (for example, you might get picked on for being really thin, but that doesn't negate the fact that there are privileges that go along with being thin, like being able to buy clothes in nearly all stores or having clothes modeled on bodies that look like yours, so you know what they'll look like on you).

 

Which is just to say that while it is never okay to pick on people for any reason, and that sucks, white privilege still exists in contexts where whites are the statistical minority.

 

I understand those things, but a lot of those things listed don't and have never applied to me.

 

And actually, where I live, if you don't speak Spanish, it's hard to find a job, especially without a degree so obviously my last name might not stick out as much as a Hispanic one on a resume.

 

The other reason I was upset was the fact that it was brought up in this thread. I never said I knew how Naomi felt, I specifically said I didn't, so I don't understand why my post, above many other white women who posted on here, was chosen. I was feeling defensive.

 

We've had our windows shot out with beebee guns, we've had our yard trashed and our car lights knocked out and our garage and house egged. Sure, it could have just been random, but we're the only white people on our street and no one else had damage, so....

 

ETA: I don't disagree that there is white privilege. But, if I were to do what was done to me in school, or shoot out someones windows who wasn't my race, or called someone not of my race a derogatory term for their race, I would have gotten into serious trouble and it would have been a hate crime.

Edited June 1, 2011 by BeatleMania

[Ohdanigirl]

I understand those things, but a lot of those things listed don't and have never applied to me.

 

And actually, where I live, if you don't speak Spanish, it's hard to find a job, especially without a degree so obviously my last name might not stick out as much as a Hispanic one on a resume.

 

The other reason I was upset was the fact that it was brought up in this thread. I never said I knew how Naomi felt, I specifically said I didn't, so I don't understand why my post, above many other white women who posted on here, was chosen. I was feeling defensive.

 

We've had our windows shot out with beebee guns, we've had our yard trashed and our car lights knocked out and our garage and house egged. Sure, it could have just been random, but we're the only white people on our street and no one else had damage, so....

 

:grouphug: I am Mexican/white and I see your points. My father is white, but I am tan and have back hair. You would be shocked at the way people will treat/speak to/of white people in front of me. Imagine their surprise....

 

I think people do not want to see both sides of the coin. Well, there are multiple sides. Also, I think that we need to get to a point where we do not make such a big thing of every little comment. If it had been Jenny Rivera, Niurka, Thalia, etc, I would not have jumped to "OMG I am so offended, how racist!" What they were saying was obvious, don't read more into it. JMHO.

 

Danielle

[Hunter's Moon]

:grouphug: I am Mexican/white and I see your points. My father is white, but I am tan and have back hair. You would be shocked at the way people will treat/speak to/of white people in front of me. Imagine their surprise....

 

I think people do not want to see both sides of the coin. Well, there are multiple sides. Also, I think that we need to get to a point where we do not make such a big thing of every little comment. If it had been Jenny Rivera, Niurka, Thalia, etc, I would not have jumped to "OMG I am so offended, how racist!" What they were saying was obvious, don't read more into it. JMHO.

 

Danielle

:iagree: even though I did get defensive, I admit :blushing:

 

My boyfriend is black and one time, his roomate's friend, not knowing we were Skyping, started talking about how ugly and hated our babies would be and how messed up it is when whites and blacks have babies together because we're just screwing the kids over.

 

He apologized of course, but obviously he meant what he said or he wouldn't have said it.

Edited June 1, 2011 by BeatleMania

[mommaduck]

:iagree: even though I did get defensive, I admit :blushing:

 

My boyfriend is black and one time, his roomate's friend, not knowing we were Skyping, started talking about how ugly and hated our babies would be and how messed up it is when whites and blacks have babies together because we're just screwing the kids over.

 

He apologized of course, but obviously he meant what he said or he wouldn't have said it.

 

Some of us do get what you are saying though. Some of us, like a previous poster, are ethnically mixed, but look like one thing or another. Ironically, some of us have also dealt with bigotry in our own families, even though being ethnically mixed.

[Mejane]

.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Mejane

[mommaduck]

I do find it offensive, but I've probably watched the movie The Birdcage one too many times. The line, "The money's on the dresser, chocolate" leapt immediately to mind.

 

Never saw the movie, but in the assumed context, I would find it offensive also. But not in the op case.

[Hunter's Moon]

Some of us do get what you are saying though. Some of us, like a previous poster, are ethnically mixed, but look like one thing or another. Ironically, some of us have also dealt with bigotry in our own families, even though being ethnically mixed.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry you've had to deal with that in a family setting. I've seen it within a friend of mine's family. They are all Hispanic, just from different areas (Puerto Rican, Hondorian, Mexican, Dominican).

[KristinaBreece]

I do find it offensive, but I've probably watched the movie The Birdcage one too many times. The line, "The money's on the dresser, chocolate" leapt immediately to mind.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

That's my favorite movie EVER!

[Soror]

If it was comparing her race/color to chocolate than I would find that offensive and inappropriate but I don't see how one could draw that conclusion from that ad.

[Night Elf]

The print at the bottom of the ad said, "I'm the world's most pampered bar, now available in 3 new flavours." This makes it seem to me that they're trying to equate the bar with the type of excess & luxury that people think of when they imagine a diva-- I think the racial subtext was likely unintentional.

 

:iagree: I'm sure the advertising department is feeling pretty horrible and stupid. There would be no outcry if the reference was any other non-dark race. They should have used Britney Spears or Mariah Carey. :)

 

FWIW, when I read that ad, I saw the 'diva' comparison. If it was not for this thread, I would have not even thought about the 'race' comparison. But since I'm white, my opinion is likely viewed as racist.

[Nestof3]

So, I guess my husband calling me his Irish cream would be insulting too, huh? Remind me to smack him the next time he says it. ;)

[Parrothead]

So, I guess my husband calling me his Irish cream would be insulting too, huh? Remind me to smack him the next time he says it. ;)

I was thinking about vanilla. I'm not offended by being called vanilla. I wasn't offended by being called "gray girl." I was a bit taken aback since I'm not gray.

 

I suppose it is all in how the terms are used and the tone in which they are used. I can tell someone how lovely it is to see her and how nice she looks but still be saying I think not so well of her.

[Nestof3]

What I don't get is her skin is the color of chocolate, and Cadbury obviously thinks chocolate is a good thing. She seems to be the one who has a problem with her skin color.

[Mrs Mungo]

Other.

 

I'm not white or black, first of all. ;)

 

*I* would find being called a diva insulting, but I don't think she can protest that.

 

I don't think they were comparing her skin color to the color of the chocolate. They used her because she's probably the *UK's* most famous diva.

 

 

Interesting aside:

I have

on my ipod. It contains the line "her skin is cinnamon." We were listening to it in the car one day when dh said, "your skin is vanilla." I must have given him a weird look because he asked, "what? it smells like vanilla." I told him I had not thought about how she smelled, I thought it was referring to the color of her skin. It made me wonder which it meant. Then, it made me think of The Tin Drum because in it one girls smells like cinnamon and spice and one smells like vanilla. I wondered if the song was somewhat based on that book (the POV character is in a mental hospital at the beginning of the book, the speaker in the song is also in a mental hospital).

 

It was one of the moments that made me think how funny it is that we can perceive things so differently, and how another person's perception can give as an insight we lacked before.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[Nestof3]

Other.

 

I don't think they were comparing her skin color to the color of the chocolate. They used her because she's probably the *UK's* most famous diva.

 

 

 

I don't either.

[DarlaS]

:iagree: I'm sure the advertising department is feeling pretty horrible and stupid. There would be no outcry if the reference was any other non-dark race. They should have used Britney Spears or Mariah Carey. :)

 

FWIW, when I read that ad, I saw the 'diva' comparison. If it was not for this thread, I would have not even thought about the 'race' comparison. But since I'm white, my opinion is likely viewed as racist.

 

 

Yes, because all white people, simply by being white, are racists whether we know it or not. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't see it as racist either, but the whole ad being done to avoid any use at all of the color of chocolate may be an indicator that somewhere along the line someone *did* think it might be offensive.

 

Isn't that a bit odd? A chocolate ad with no chocolate in it? I didn't initially know what kind of candy it even was.

[Mrs Mungo]

Isn't that a bit odd? A chocolate ad with no chocolate in it? I didn't initially know what kind of candy it even was.

 

That's only because you aren't the target audience, it's not a US candy bar.

[KristinaBreece]

Ok, I have to ask. Keep in mind that I have no real knowledge of modern British history.

 

Is this REALLY as big a deal in the UK as it is here in the US? I mean, we keep talking about the history of black oppression-- is that really the same across the pond?

[stripe]

*I* would find being called a diva insulting, but I don't think she can protest that.

 

Be funny if she tried, though, wouldn't it?

 

Maybe some toilet paper or milk or hemerrhoid cream will take her on next.

[Night Elf]

Isn't that a bit odd? A chocolate ad with no chocolate in it? I didn't initially know what kind of candy it even was.

 

It had the box of chocolate surrounded by the diamonds. I can see your point that the chocolate wasn't laid out, but the box meant chocolate to me so maybe others wouldn't see it as an absence of chocolate either.

[stripe]

I knew it was chocolate, but I found the photo on the link scary -- she looks like Diana Ross these days, even her smile!

 

I don't want chocolate that is so much work!

[cindergretta]

There is a piece of chocolate on the box of chocolate. I didn't read anything inherently racist in the ad. After I read the OP, the first thing I thouht of was Nagin and the "Chocolate City." Could it be racist? Sure. Because it *could* be doesn't mean it is, though.

 

People see what they want to see and that is influenced by their own personal experiences.

[bettyandbob]

Blood diamonds did not even occur to me.

 

The blood diamond connection with Naomi Campbell was big in the news last year. So it is a connection many people will make upon seeing her name and diamonds together. While the ad may be racist on the surface, her reaction may also be in part to deflect personal bad publicity. Sorry for being inept with hyperlinks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/liberia/7927869/Naomi-Campbell-admits-she-was-given-blood-diamonds.html

[deacongirl]

Being a minority doesn't negate white privilege. I'm a white person living in Detroit, and so a minority, racially. That doesn't negate any of the white privilege I have. Nobody gets scared when they see me walking down the street. Just putting my name on a resume isn't going to reduce my chances of getting a job, even though my name indicates my ethnic origins.

 

It's terrible to be harassed or picked on at school, but that's just not the same thing as the kind of systematic, institutional discrimination that blacks face. All kinds of people get picked on at school, for all kinds of reasons; anything that makes you different--having light or dark skin, having curly or straight hair, being fat or thin, being smart or not-so-smart. That doesn't mean that all of those things are also the basis of systematic or institutionalized discrimination, or that there can't also be privilege that goes along with them (for example, you might get picked on for being really thin, but that doesn't negate the fact that there are privileges that go along with being thin, like being able to buy clothes in nearly all stores or having clothes modeled on bodies that look like yours, so you know what they'll look like on you).

 

Which is just to say that while it is never okay to pick on people for any reason, and that sucks, white privilege still exists in contexts where whites are the statistical minority.

 

Yes, this exactly. Reminded me of the book Whistling Vivaldi:

Dr. STEELE: Yes, that comes from a friend, Brent Staples who writes for the New York Times, and his autobiography called "Parallel Time," a great book I can plug. He describes being a graduate student, an African-American graduate student at the University of Chicago, walking down the street dressed as a student and realizing that his mere presence was making whites uncomfortable.

And they would avoid him or sort of cross the street to get away from him and so on. He realized from this kind of behavior that they were seeing him through the lens of a negative stereotype about African-Americans in that neighborhood, that perhaps as a young male, black male, he might be violent. And it was making his whole experience of the situation tense and awkward. He learned how to whistle Vivaldi to deflect that stereotype.

CONAN: When they heard the classical music being whistled, they said oh, this is a man of refinement.

Dr. STEELE: Exactly. And he relaxed, they relaxed, and the situation went on.

[Ohdanigirl]

Ironically, some of us have also dealt with bigotry in our own families, even though being ethnically mixed.

 

:iagree:

 

It is very unfortunate.

 

Danielle

[Findley2]

My sisters are black and they said that they did not find the ad racist. They saw it as commenting on her being a diva not her being black. My one sister said that if the ad had said " Move over Naomi there is a new CHOCOLATE diva in town" then it would have been offensive.

[Carpe]

They probably could have saved some trouble if they'd said 'Elton' instead of 'Naomi' because I've heard he's just as big of a diva.

[mommaduck]

They probably could have saved some trouble if they'd said 'Elton' instead of 'Naomi' because I've heard he's just as big of a diva.

 

He'd probably laugh...at least he has a sense of humour.

[elizabeth]

They should be sued blind . This is beyond insulting especially when one takes into account her race. As a person with North African cousins and grandparents this is an offensive ad.

[lionfamily1999]

It was one of the moments that made me think how funny it is that we can perceive things so differently, and how another person's perception can give as an insight we lacked before.

 

What were you listening to?

 

Great point on perspectives.

 

 

The blood diamond connection with Naomi Campbell was big in the news last year. So it is a connection many people will make upon seeing her name and diamonds together. While the ad may be racist on the surface, her reaction may also be in part to deflect personal bad publicity. Sorry for being inept with hyperlinks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/liberia/7927869/Naomi-Campbell-admits-she-was-given-blood-diamonds.html

Oooooh. Then if I were her, the diamonds would have made me angrier than the chocolate. That does seem a little slap in the faceish.

They probably could have saved some trouble if they'd said 'Elton' instead of 'Naomi' because I've heard he's just as big of a diva.

:lol: Sir Diva :lol: