S/O Health care now a human right in Vermont

[specialmama]

Then they were very blessed. I have heard many stories that went the other way.

 

:iagree:

[QueenCat]

How so? My mom had breast cancer and then a blockage that led to open heart surgery, which I would consider to be two devastating health crisis. My parents had insurance, and while they did have to pay some, it certainly didn't effect the way they were living let alone wipe out their savings or retirement plans. Not even close. In this situation, Family B would easily be filing bankruptcy whereas my parents were barely touched by it financially, so they are not in the same boat at all.

 

Lisa

 

We have good health insurance too. This type of thing would not financially devastate us. People with good health insurance do not make good news for the news reporters so we don't hear about them. That said, even though we have excellent insurance and excellent health care, I am in favor of the Affordable Health Act that passed last year. It's not perfect but it's better than what we had before, especially if we can get more of it implemented. I like it because it is not a govt. paid plan but will insure far more people than are insured now. I'm always amazed at how some politicians tell their constituents that the plan is similar to Canada and England's systems when it is far from it. Far more choice it plans.

[Danestress]

When I hear "human right" I tend to think about those rights that every human is entitled to in all times and all places - one might say "inalienable" rights we are endowed with by our creator. I personally don't think of most health care as a human right in that sense.

 

And then what kind of care are we talking about? Three rounds of unsuccessful IVF attempts? A second bone marrow transplant for an 87 year old? Setting a six year old child's broken bone?

 

I tend to not think of health care as a "human right" but I do support legislative attempts to provide basic care to all people (very basic care) in my state. I think we can afford it. So it is not necessarily a "right" of all humans, but it is something I am willing to see created as a "legal right" and supported by my tax dollars.

[ktgrok]

I don't know if you read above - but my friend goes through Blue Cross privately and they have no problem making the premiums. Blue Cross has never given them any problems about thier care.

 

Than your friend is either very healthy or very lucky. I have had to look for private insurance at one point, and have also helped shop for a plan for a small business. The cost isn't even the main issue. The issue is that private health care can choose not to cover you if you aren't healthy enough. If you have any preexisting problems, etc. So, many of the people I know that are not insured couldn't get inusrance anyway. My office doesn't give health benefits, and one of my coworkers was having symptoms of MS and has not had any treatment, and only half the diagnostics, because she can't afford it. And now that MS in on her medical records she can't get insurance no matter how much she pays.

[ktgrok]

Theoretically, you are correct. Actually, it is a group of political elites who make decisions for their sheeple based on what they think is best for them.

 

Um, only if the people let them. I can vote out a government official I don't like, that screws up my healthcare. I can't vote out the head of my insurance company. And my husband's company only has one option for insurance, so we are pretty much shackled to that, to use the shackle image from earlier in the thread.

[Carol in Cal.]

When I hear "human right" I tend to think about those rights that every human is entitled to in all times and all places - one might say "inalienable" rights we are endowed with by our creator. I personally don't think of most health care as a human right in that sense.

 

I tend to not think of health care as a "human right" but I do support legislative attempts to provide basic care to all people (very basic care) in my state. I think we can afford it. So it is not necessarily a "right" of all humans, but it is something I am willing to see created as a "legal right" and supported by my tax dollars.

 

Yes, this why why I say it's not a RIGHT, but it IS RIGHT.

[Audrey]

Here's the thing that's been said over and over again:

What you pay for in health insurance is far more than what we pay for in taxes. There's no reason why the same can't happen in the States. Citizens would be *further* ahead, financially than they are now, and there wouldn't be a burden on the system.

 

The insurance cos would be the losers, not the individuals.

 

And as far as the 'don't work, don't eat' statement, I suppose that sending the disabled, the elderly, the ill to die in the woods is the preferred action?

 

 

Thank you, Imp! I have said that many times. The taxes that dh and I TOGETHER paid in any given year we've been married have been significantly less than I paid for health insurance for MYSELF ALONE on what was supposed to be a very good group plan.

 

I am getting a bargain from my taxes even if the ONLY thing I EVER got from the government was my family's healthcare.

[KristinaBreece]

Thank you, Imp! I have said that many times. The taxes that dh and I TOGETHER paid in any given year we've been married have been significantly less than I paid for health insurance for MYSELF ALONE on what was supposed to be a very good group plan.

 

I am getting a bargain from my taxes even if the ONLY thing I EVER got from the government was my family's healthcare.

 

So... how does one qualify to immigrate? ;)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Um, only if the people let them. I can vote out a government official I don't like, that screws up my healthcare. I can't vote out the head of my insurance company. And my husband's company only has one option for insurance, so we are pretty much shackled to that, to use the shackle image from earlier in the thread.

 

Exactly:D

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This reminds me of a story...

 

I know an older woman who lives in Germany who has Multiple Sclerosis. While she was working (first for the German government, then for a private firm), she had "top tier" private insurance and was seen by all of the top doctors. When she "aged out" of the system, she was placed on the German equivalent of Medicare (I have no idea what they call it).

 

She relayed to me once that she was sitting in a waiting room and saw one of her old doctors ( - literally, old - he had been her doctor for over 20 years - ) and tried to engage him in a friendly chat. But she was on the "medicare" list (and he knew it), not the "private insurance" list... and he just kept walking.

 

She told me that she volunteers anywhere she can, just to keep herself busy, because if she stops moving, she's dead (she's quite ill). "Dead?" I said to her? Oh yes, she replied, I'm of no use to a socialist state; I no longer contribute to the state as a worker, and as someone who is ill, I am a continual drain on the system. If I cannot take care of myself, I have only two options: the first is for my church to take me in to one of their "homes" (which, in her case, would likely happen, as she is a volunteer canon lawyer), or go to a state home to die.

 

WHAT???

 

Um, you mean to a "nursing home", right?

 

No, we don't have those like they do in America. In Germany, you just go to a room with a bed. You're fed, you're bathed. Eventually, you'll die there. You're no good to the state if you're not contributing.

 

------------

 

 

Now, this is a woman who is almost 70 years old. Her memories of WWII are fuzzy, but she remembers the aftermath quite well enough. She is very proud of her country, and its ability to take care of its citizens (in general). Yet, she finds herself elderly and sick. And with a contradiction: she has worked her entire life to build her nation, and now they have no use for her. Worse, they make no bones about telling her that she is simply 'not needed', is 'in the way'. (her words, not mine)

 

Further, she wonders what will happen to all of the immigrants whose religious centers are not establishing "old age homes", to all of the people who are not 'attached' to religion at all -- the state has no "safety net" in place for such people. It weighs on her.

 

 

----------------

 

I relay this story because, in America, "healthcare for all" sounds lovely. I mean, why not? Canada, the UK, and Western Europe can't be wrong, can they? Only America isn't any of those places. America is huge. W. Europe fits into Texas. (think about that one a second)

 

There is a certain social contract that is made between a people and their government for, well, everything. In Europe, for guaranteed medical, that means higher taxes (40% of income minimally), longer waits (from weeks to months), fewer choices of physicians and/or caregivers, and the reality that, at some point, a person WILL be told that whatever is wrong with them is not worth the cost of the care.

 

And yes, that is an uncomfortable thing to think about.

 

Look around this board. There are many, many people here who have serious health issues in their families. Under a socialized health system (which is what a universal health system is - don't kid yourself), you're golden. As long as you are able to continue contributing into the system. As long as you have a worker in your family. Because it's all about The State. When that worker is unable to do so? It's not so pretty.

 

In America, you can have whatever you can pay for. That isn't the case everywhere you go. At least not legally.

 

 

a

 

I think your example is unfounded here since Medicare has not caused those things to happen here at all and capitalism still lives.

[Aelwydd]

It looks as though even the powerful doctors' lobbies are increasingly joining the ranks of those who support universal health care. For more and more doctors, medicine is becoming less about business, and more about "patient experience."

[cdrumm4448]

I know. My point was that people are productive members of society and are still unable to make enough money to get by. The working poor is an ever-growing reality.

 

 

I agree. I just do not think the government is the solution to every problem, every time.

[cdrumm4448]

No. Actually, legally, morally, and realistically, I'm right. "Sheeple" is a pejorative you use to obfuscate and navigate around the truth. And that truth is, constitutionally we are a democratic Republic, and We The People elect our leaders into office.

 

The government isn't made up of androids sent over by some nefarious outside force or country to subvert our freedom. It's made up Real People , some of whom are male, some female, some conservative, some liberal, some Christian, some not. They have names like Tom Coburn and Gabby Giffords.

 

They are American citizens, and they wouldn't be governing unless they got the majority vote. Even if some of them got there with the shameless help of corporate dollars -- they still had to be VOTED in.

 

Whether you or I participate or not, we are still part of the government, because We Are The People. Governing officials don't elect themselves, nor is the office they hold inherited. I am part of that government, because I choose to fulfill my civic duty, and my religious duty, to exercise my power of choice for what will accomplish the most good.

 

First of all, I use the term sheeple, not as my choice of words, but as politicians' use of it. (I have actually spoken to politicians IRL who used the term!)

 

Second, if you believe our processes haven't been circumvented, you're incorrect. Unions, corporate entities, and other groups with political clout garner votes and get politicians elected. I am from CHICAGO, for goodness' sake. So, theoretically, you are correct. But, in the real world those votes are bought and paid for.

[cdrumm4448]

We have good health insurance too. This type of thing would not financially devastate us. People with good health insurance do not make good news for the news reporters so we don't hear about them. That said, even though we have excellent insurance and excellent health care, I am in favor of the Affordable Health Act that passed last year. It's not perfect but it's better than what we had before, especially if we can get more of it implemented. I like it because it is not a govt. paid plan but will insure far more people than are insured now. I'm always amazed at how some politicians tell their constituents that the plan is similar to Canada and England's systems when it is far from it. Far more choice it plans.

 

What I find interesting about many supporters of the healthcare law (not necessarily you) is that they HATE insurance companies. They think they're the worse of the worst, yet they support the new healthcare law that throws thousands and thousands of additional members at their feet.

[cdrumm4448]

I think we can afford it.

 

Did you see the previous post that included the debt clock and how much we're in the hole now?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Have you lived in a nation with socialist healthcare?

 

 

a

 

I have in the good old USA:D Medicare is socialist healthcare and it is a lifesaver for millions:001_smile:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

We have that here too. We call it, "MEDICAID."

 

Medicaid does work for the elderly in nursing homes. I agree though that it is problematic for many families who depend upon for other care. This is another reason for medicare for all with expanded coverage for long term care:D

[KristinaBreece]

I agree. I just do not think the government is the solution to every problem, every time.

 

I just don't see anyone else offering a solution.

[QueenCat]

What I find interesting about many supporters of the healthcare law (not necessarily you) is that they HATE insurance companies. They think they're the worse of the worst, yet they support the new healthcare law that throws thousands and thousands of additional members at their feet.

 

One of the major reasons I support it is because my younger son will be uninsurable once he is out on his own without it (the act eliminates the insurance companies ability to deny based on pre-existing conditions). I have other reasons but that is a big one for me. As it is, he would have been uninsurable as a child if my dh didn't make darn sure any new job included insurance from Day 1, and that his last official day at an old job was after the 1st official day at the new job due to "continuous coverage" rules. That was tricky but doable twice for us. Thankfully, the Health Care Act eliminated this necessity for us, and that provision went in to affect pretty quickly... now to get it all implemented so people see what it is really like, and not just what the internet and false rumors say (a whole 'nother sore subject for me).

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

A truly free market would mean that pharmaceuticals could patent their medications and charge what they want, for as long as they want. (No regulation to stop them).

 

A truly free market would mean that hospitals could deny care to any that they wanted, even in emergency situations. (No regulation to require them to give care.)

 

A truly free market would mean obscene profits for the owners of insurance companies, because they can deny, deny, deny. They can hold pre-existing conditions against their clients, and they can reject that expensive medication for the child with cancer, for a less expensive, and less effective one.

 

 

A truly free market means that cures will only be developed where the market is most profitable. That means finding ways to MANAGE diseases like diabetes, because it means a lot more profit if you can keep them coming back for treatments, medications, and so forth.

 

A truly free market, would as we seen with the de-regulated airline companies, see a drastic increase in profits, with a corresponding decrease in service quality.

 

Health care should be predicated upon service to others; not constructed as a monument to greed.

 

I :001_wub: you.:D

[Aelwydd]

First of all, I use the term sheeple, not as my choice of words, but as politicians' use of it. (I have actually spoken to politicians IRL who used the term!)

 

You repeating the pejorative does not make it any less so. And politicians are not a monolith, cdrumm. They come from many different backgrounds, and have been shaped by different experiences. Using the crass words of a few to sum up the whole is neither logical, nor is it particularly fair.

 

Second, if you believe our processes haven't been circumvented, you're incorrect. Unions, corporate entities, and other groups with political clout garner votes and get politicians elected. I am from CHICAGO, for goodness' sake. So, theoretically, you are correct. But, in the real world those votes are bought and paid for.

 

Then you will need to produce evidence that unions, corporations, and other political groups have physically gone into polls, and forced the hands of citizens to vote their politicians into office. Do you? Have that proof? Because I'm pretty sure it that kind of circumvention would quickly reported and decried by the masses. I'd love to see the picture of a union leader forcing, say, an old lady to hit the button for "Democrat," for example.

 

Now, influence? Yes. These groups can and do INFLUENCE voters, to vote one way or the other. But they still do not CAST EACH VOTE for the voter. They cannot control or order or otherwise remove your or my right to vote for whoever we choose.

 

I'll tell you a little secret: I'm getting ready to work for a grass-roots environmental group. Here. In Texas. A state known for its political, um, disdain for such niceties as clean air and potable water. All the money and power are on the side of those opposed; yet this environmental group has a number of pivotal successes in getting laws passed to protect Texans from pollution and dumping.

 

In giving people information about an issue and telling them who their representative is, they can write about it, resulting in huge numbers of letters and phone calls coming in to the state capitol and to legislators' offices. And all that money and power on part of those super influential groups is not enough to silence the will power of concerned citizens, no matter WHAT their political affiliation is.

 

Conclusion: our government is still (at the moment) comprised of legally elected members of the populace. And because of the power to vote, citizens still can remove or put into office who they will.

[Impish]

Did you see the previous post that included the debt clock and how much we're in the hole now?

Did you see where its been explained that the taxation in Canada, that includes health care, is far cheaper than what ppl pay for private insurance in the States?

[Mrs Mungo]

One of the major reasons I support it is because my younger son will be uninsurable once he is out on his own without it (the act eliminates the insurance companies ability to deny based on pre-existing conditions).

 

My son is also uninsurable. You'll find a lot of people you support reforms have a loved one who is uninsurable through no fault of their own.

[Aelwydd]

I :001_wub: you.:D

 

Your sentiments are wholly and ardently returned. :001_tt1: :D

[Danestress]

Did you see the previous post that included the debt clock and how much we're in the hole now?

 

Just kidding. Of course I have seen the clock - and shown it to others when teaching. I think think we can afford to make sure all citizens have very basic care. But there is a lot of health care that we can't afford to provide. The choices are difficult and probably best left for another day.

[Audrey]

So does Canada not support abortions with tax money? Just asking because of your pro-life comment.

 

 

Just so you know... Canada doesn't actually determine what is and isn't covered by the Provincial Health Plans. Each province determines that itself. I think a lot of Americans assume that the federal government dictates all aspects of health care. That is not true. They are Provincially run programs. And, our healthcare isn't a free-for-all anything-goes system either.

 

I cannot answer for other provinces (and I'm not going to spend my time googling it for you), but my province considers abortion to be an elective procedure and it -- along with many other elective procedures -- is not covered under the Provincial Health Plan. That means, if you want one, you have to pay for it, just like I had to pay to get a scar removed. It wasn't critical. It was cosmetic. It was my responsibility to pay for it.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

In our case, for right now we're staying with the private plan because dh was on the state plan before and could never afford to go to the dr. at all. It seriously sucked and I doubt it's gotten better. However, this year I turned 40 and have had several health issues and I can't imagine what our premium is going to be next January.

 

:grouphug: I would revisit the state plan again IMHO and seriously compare. Do they have an open season every year to sign up for healthcare at his job? Most places do?

[daddygeek]

Did you see where its been explained that the taxation in Canada, that includes health care, is far cheaper than what ppl pay for private insurance in the States?

 

I work in the oil and gas business for those people who do not know you can not live unless we continue working hard. Attached is a link to an article discussing how much energy it takes to feed each American, and that is without getting it to the grocery store or cooking it. http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html

 

But the entitelment crowd continues to steal more of my pay all the time. I recently took two years off, I know many others who are choosing to produce less and enjoy life more. I can not think of a better way to express myself than by not working, and therefore not feeding, heating or cooling for those who do not want to earn there own, Or provide there own health care.

My only problem is that there are those who have already produced more than enough for a lifetime and others who still produce, and I would hate for them to starve or freeze to death as a result of free loaders.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Did you see the previous post that included the debt clock and how much we're in the hole now?

 

Anyone who is seriously worried about the debt we have IMHO needs to put tax increases on the agenda:) It is wrong IMHO to pay for the wars and the housing collapse, which was caused by a lack of proper regulation of the banks, on the backs of the middle class:(

 

More importantly our country needs modification of our free trade agreements to get our jobs back as well as other incentives to keep jobs here. Until we do that, it will be very difficult to raise revenue due to the continual shipping of our jobs overseas:(.

[Aelwydd]

I work in the oil and gas business for those people who do not know you can not live unless we continue working hard. Attached is a link to an article discussing how much energy it takes to feed each American, and that is without getting it to the grocery store or cooking it. http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html

 

But the entitelment crowd continues to steal more of my pay all the time. I recently took two years off, I know many others who are choosing to produce less and enjoy life more. I can not think of a better way to express myself than by not working, and therefore not feeding, heating or cooling for those who do not want to earn there own, Or provide there own health care.

My only problem is that there are those who have already produced more than enough for a lifetime and others who still produce, and I would hate for them to starve or freeze to death as a result of free loaders.

 

daddygeek, since the United States gets the largest portion of its oil from Canada, a country that is full of "entitelment crowd" types, perhaps we'd better not offend them.

[cathmom]

What I find interesting about many supporters of the healthcare law (not necessarily you) is that they HATE insurance companies. They think they're the worse of the worst, yet they support the new healthcare law that throws thousands and thousands of additional members at their feet.

 

That's why, while I do support universal health care, I was not happy with the new healthcare law. I would actually like to see them tackle things piece by piece instead of putting together a bill no one's read (and probably written by insurance company lobbyists) and ramming it through.

 

:grouphug: I would revisit the state plan again IMHO and seriously compare. Do they have an open season every year to sign up for healthcare at his job? Most places do?

 

The problem with that is that it would cost at least one-quarter of dh's monthly pay for horrible coverage just for the two of us (our dc qualify for the state children's plan, which is a lot better). And then we would be paying MORE out of pocket! I wish the bottom line wasn't so important but we have no wiggle room in our monthly budget.

 

Dh could get the coverage for free, but if he leaves our private plan, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE that he could get back on it or at what cost. There's no way we could afford COBRA. And if we both left the private plan, I feel like we're screwed. It is so scary out there!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

My son is also uninsurable. You'll find a lot of people you support reforms have a loved one who is uninsurable through no fault of their own.

 

My son is uninsurable as well ans was turned down for insurance when we tried to get private insurance since he has peanut and tree nut allergies with no other medical problems:001_huh: I was turned down as well.

[Mama Geek]

Anyone who is seriously worried about the debt we have IMHO needs to put tax increases on the agenda:) It is wrong IMHO to pay for the wars and the housing collapse, which was caused by a lack of proper regulation of the banks, on the backs of the middle class:(

 

More importantly our country needs modification of our free trade agreements to get our jobs back as well as other incentives to keep jobs here. Until we do that, it will be very difficult to raise revenue due to the continual shipping of our jobs overseas:(.

 

You obviously don't understand that you could tax everyone 100% and it would not cover current national debt + interest and current unfunded liabilities. Tax increases will not solve this. The information from the debt clock that I posted shows that the assests which is what individuals, business and corporations own is just slightly more than the national debt + interest. It doesn't hold a candle to the unfunded liabilities which is what the government has agreed to pay out in the future.

 

You also don't understand that there is a point where increasing tax rates will decrease tax revenues. These are basic accounting and economic principles.

 

The incentives to keep jobs here involve lowering the cost of doing business here. This has 2 parts, reduce taxes and reduce regulations. If we get into a trade dispute we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. We no longer make much of anything in this country and what you are proposing to keep jobs here would eliminate any goods coming into this country. We would have access to almost nothing.

 

But on the other hand this country is speeding towards what you all want as freedom and prosperity goes by the wayside.

[Audrey]

So... how does one qualify to immigrate? ;)

 

Immigrating to Canada

 

I came in on the Family Sponsorship stream, i.e. I married a Canadian.

[cathmom]

Immigrating to Canada

 

I came in on the Family Sponsorship stream, i.e. I married a Canadian.

 

Dh and I are thinking our plan will be for me to do a PhD at a Canadian university and then apply to stay.

[astrid]

:thumbup::iagree:

[Impish]

I work in the oil and gas business for those people who do not know you can not live unless we continue working hard. Attached is a link to an article discussing how much energy it takes to feed each American, and that is without getting it to the grocery store or cooking it. http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html

 

But the entitelment crowd continues to steal more of my pay all the time. I recently took two years off, I know many others who are choosing to produce less and enjoy life more. I can not think of a better way to express myself than by not working, and therefore not feeding, heating or cooling for those who do not want to earn there own, Or provide there own health care.

My only problem is that there are those who have already produced more than enough for a lifetime and others who still produce, and I would hate for them to starve or freeze to death as a result of free loaders.

I've read your response several times, and cannot find the logic in it. Unless you're the only tax payer in the US, I don't honestly understand why its all on you...once again, the taxation rate here would SAVE the person who currently carries private insurance money! Less comes off the pay, so you're frothing at the mouth over more of your pay going makes 0 sense.

daddygeek, since the United States gets the largest portion of its oil from Canada, a country that is full of "entitelment crowd" types, perhaps we'd better not offend them.

:lol:

[daddygeek]

I've read your response several times, and cannot find the logic in it. Unless you're the only tax payer in the US, I don't honestly understand why its all on you...once again, the taxation rate here would SAVE the person who currently carries private insurance money! Less comes off the pay, so you're frothing at the mouth over more of your pay going makes 0 sense.

:lol:

I currently have the liberty to buy insurance or not buy insurance. I can look at a policy offered by my employer or someone else and choose to buy it or choose not to buy it. I have the liberty to spend my lifes savings if that is what it takes to keep a member of my family healthy. I have currently rejected a health insurance plan because I can write a check for more than the maximum they would pay and it would cost a substantial part of my income to buy the insurance. The only good thing I could say about the plan I have been offered is that it is better than anything a government would offer. By the way I pay more in social security and medicare than my parents collect combined. This is nothing new, when my dad was working he paid more than his parents collected. But fear not I will reduce what I produce to a level that it is not all confiscated. I do support charity, but the government is not a charity they take what they get with the barrel of a gun. I only pay taxes for fear of government violence against me and my family and our ability to take care of ourselves. Why should you take what I earn by violence?

[Impish]

I currently have the liberty to buy insurance or not buy insurance. I can look at a policy offered by my employer or someone else and choose to buy it or choose not to buy it. I have the liberty to spend my lifes savings if that is what it takes to keep a member of my family healthy. I have currently rejected a health insurance plan because I can write a check for more than the maximum they would pay and it would cost a substantial part of my income to buy the insurance. The only good thing I could say about the plan I have been offered is that it is better than anything a government would offer. By the way I pay more in social security and medicare than my parents collect combined. This is nothing new, when my dad was working he paid more than his parents collected. But fear not I will reduce what I produce to a level that it is not all confiscated. I do support charity, but the government is not a charity they take what they get with the barrel of a gun. I only pay taxes for fear of government violence against me and my family and our ability to take care of ourselves. Why should you take what I earn by violence?

Government violence over tax paying? I thought it was illegal to make false tax filings, but fear violence over not filing?

 

I also don't get how what you pay into medicaid and ss has to do with your parents...both issues are determined by what each party earns/earned, correct?

[Melissa in Australia]

. I do support charity, but the government is not a charity they take what they get with the barrel of a gun. I only pay taxes for fear of government violence against me and my family and our ability to take care of ourselves. Why should you take what I earn by violence?

 

Boy I am glad I live in Australia. No threat of the government taking tax with a gun here.:lol:

America sounds a whole lot more dangerous than I thought it was, in fact I am starting to think all those American movies that I thought were exaggerations are possibly a reflection of American life.

[Colleen in NS]

Immigrating to Canada

 

I came in on the Family Sponsorship stream, i.e. I married a Canadian.

 

LOL, I was waiting for you to post this! Can always count on you to show people how to immigrate here. :D

 

I, too, got in by marrying a Canuck.

 

(it seems we each tell the same stories and information here each time it comes up, eh?)

[KristinaBreece]

Boy I am glad I live in Australia. No threat of the government taking tax with a gun here.:lol:

America sounds a whole lot more dangerous than I thought it was, in fact I am starting to think all those American movies that I thought were exaggerations are possibly a reflection of American life.

 

We're all living Will Smith's reality from Enemy of the State, don't you know? :001_huh::glare:

[Carol in Cal.]

But fear not I will reduce what I produce to a level that it is not all confiscated. I do support charity, but the government is not a charity they take what they get with the barrel of a gun. I only pay taxes for fear of government violence against me and my family and our ability to take care of ourselves. Why should you take what I earn by violence?

 

And the countdown to the thread lock begins...

 

...in 5.....4.........3.........2...............1...........

 

:lurk5:

[Colleen in NS]

And the countdown to the thread lock begins...

 

...in 5.....4.........3.........2...............1...........

 

:lurk5:

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

OK, now, who has a good recipe to share?

[KristinaBreece]

And the countdown to the thread lock begins...

 

...in 5.....4.........3.........2...............1...........

 

:lurk5:

 

And I was pretty proud of us for keeping a controversial topic fairly civil & in-bounds up to now.

[justamouse]

And the countdown to the thread lock begins...

 

...in 5.....4.........3.........2...............1...........

 

:lurk5:

 

He's only got 17 posts.

 

just say'n....*cough*

[Lady Florida.]

I, too, got in by marrying a Canuck.

 

 

 

Hey, I want to marry a Canuck so I can emigrate. Oh, wait...I'm already married. So, how does Canada feel about bigamy? :leaving:

[Carol in Cal.]

He's only got 17 posts.

 

just say'n....*cough*

 

I noticed that, too.

[Impish]

Hey, I want to marry a Canuck so I can emigrate. Oh, wait...I'm already married. So, how does Canada feel about bigamy? :leaving:

Google Bountiful, British Columbia :lol:

I noticed that, too.

:iagree:

[littleWMN]

Healthcare is a privilege. I want everyone to have access to good healthcare, but it is a privilege that we have, not an inherent right.

 

:iagree: