The negative, self-centered, emotional, literal child

[mom2l&j]

Ugh...

 

How in the world do you deal?

 

I feel like we've tried everything we know of to try to help him be more positive, a team player, and more mild.

 

I have a hard time keeping my cool when he has his irrational meltdowns.

 

I need suggestions.

 

ETA: He is 8.

Edited May 29, 2011 by mom2l&j

[Night Elf]

How old is he? That will be a HUGE consideration.

[mom2l&j]

He is 8. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

[lllll]

..

[Chris in VA]

Is he an Aspie, by any chance? Structure was important to my aspie kiddo, largely because of anxiety related to change. Does your child do well with changing sets, as they say? Keeping things predictable can help anxiety, which can help with negativity and meltdowns.

[mom2l&j]

Some examples...

 

1) He will have a friend over to play for a few hours. After the friend leaves, he complains that they didn't have any fun because they didn't get to play legos. I remind him that they had plenty of fun playing Hot Wheels and Wii. I also suggest maybe he could say that he had fun but next time he would like to make sure they play legos as well.

 

2) I find out about something that happened. I ask him about it. He tells me that he doesn't want to tell me what happened because he will get in trouble and he cries. I repeat that I need him to tell me what happened. The crying increases and he repeats that he doesn't want to tell me because he will get in trouble. This cycle continues for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min. until he will finally tell me "the truth". (I'm not convinced it's the truth, but...??)

 

3) We will go out to eat and then decide to stop by the store on the way home. He throws a fit because he doesn't want to go shopping. He wants to go home. We continue on to the store and suffer through his attitude.

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong.

 

5) He will ask to go to the park later. We tell him that we will have to see if we have time. Later, when we tell him we won't be able to go to the park, he cries and yells that we lied to him.

 

I'm sure these aren't the best examples but they are just a few that came to mind.

[mom2l&j]

Is he an Aspie, by any chance? Structure was important to my aspie kiddo, largely because of anxiety related to change. Does your child do well with changing sets, as they say? Keeping things predictable can help anxiety, which can help with negativity and meltdowns.

 

I have questioned that but he doesn't really fit the other symptoms I read about. Of course, I'm fully aware that many parents are in denial, but I'm open to it, I just don't see it.

 

ETA: I don't want to sound defensive. I completely considered it. ;)

Edited May 29, 2011 by mom2l&j

[Night Elf]

Okay, I know how annoying it is to have a problem with your child and someone automatically suggest special needs, but I just thought I'd throw this out there. My ds14 has Aspergers and what you've written describes him. His meltdowns were horrendous. They were like temper tantrums times 100.

 

Some things that helped him (and not just because he is an Aspie, but just things in general):

 

Meltdowns: there is something triggering them. Figure out what it is, and stop it as soon as you see it beginning to build. By the time the child has the meltdown, they've completely run out of coping resources. It's like their bucket is simply empty and there is nothing left to do but breakdown emotionally and physically. It's a horrible, helpless feeling for both of you. In fact, he could be also feel very frightened because feeling out of control can create a panicked feeling. The best things that calmed my son were holding him tightly (not painfully) and drifting my fingers over his skin to create goose bumps.

 

Competition: some children just cannot handle it. We learned that when we wanted to play a game, we stayed away from games that hurt feelings and modified rules of other games to make them enjoyable for everyone. For example, we did not play Sorry for years because the kids would cry if one of their pieces got sent back to home. We play Scrabble without tallying points. Things have gotten better as the kids get older, but there are some games we still don't usually play. Ds14 still hates Sorry and Monopoly, but he doesn't mind Uno. Weird. :)

 

Being positive: some personalities just don't feel positive in a natural way. I am a very negative person and I have to work hard at maintaining a positive attitude. It took me years to learn that. My suggestion is to say something positive to him every time he makes a negative comment. If he says the game is hard, smile and say 'I know, but I really like a good challenge. If it's too easy it's boring.' Sometimes it's hard to come up with positive things, at least for me. :tongue_smilie:

 

Self-centered: it would depend on how this is played out. My son always seemed self-centered but he didn't feel snarky about it. He just had, and still has, a hard time putting himself into someone else's shoes. One haunting memory is when he was about 6 and his sister was 4. She fell down in his room and hurt herself. She was crying really loudly and he started yelling at her for being loud and hurting his ears. I thought he was being insensitive and I punished him. Later, when I figured out the problems he had with sensory issues, I felt guilty. Loud noises were very painful to him. He also was extremely sensitive to smells and tastes.

[Chelli]

Some examples...

 

1) He will have a friend over to play for a few hours. After the friend leaves, he complains that they didn't have any fun because they didn't get to play legos. I remind him that they had plenty of fun playing Hot Wheels and Wii. I also suggest maybe he could say that he had fun but next time he would like to make sure they play legos as well.

 

2) I find out about something that happened. I ask him about it. He tells me that he doesn't want to tell me what happened because he will get in trouble and he cries. I repeat that I need him to tell me what happened. The crying increases and he repeats that he doesn't want to tell me because he will get in trouble. This cycle continues for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min. until he will finally tell me "the truth". (I'm not convinced it's the truth, but...??)

 

3) We will go out to eat and then decide to stop by the store on the way home. He throws a fit because he doesn't want to go shopping. He wants to go home. We continue on to the store and suffer through his attitude.

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong.

 

5) He will ask to go to the park later. We tell him that we will have to see if we have time. Later, when we tell him we won't be able to go to the park, he cries and yells that we lied to him.

 

I'm sure these aren't the best examples but they are just a few that came to mind.

 

Sounds like my drama queen 7 year old...In all honesty, she's 7 and naturally a very emotional person. We have been taking the approach of teaching her how to manage her emotions. Working through some strategies of how to let her feelings be known without the dramatic reactions. It is a LONG, SLOW process that we have been dealing with since she turned 1, but she is much better today then she was even last year.

 

The best thing I have done is to realize that I CANNOT reason with her. When she gets in one of her emotional meltdowns, I ask her in a calm voice to go to her room until she can come out and talk to me in a reasonable voice. Sometimes she has voluntarily stayed in her room for 30 minutes getting her emotions under control! When she comes out of her room, we talk about how she was feeling, what went wrong, etc. I always end those conversations with lots of hugs and kisses to let her know that she is a great kid!

 

Just for some perspective, my parents' solution for us to put her in ps so that the other kids would tease her so that she would be embarassed to act that way :001_huh:!

 

Most days it is not fun and very trying to deal with a super emotional child, but :grouphug: to you and prayers as well.

[mom2l&j]

Okay, I know how annoying it is to have a problem with your child and someone automatically suggest special needs, but I just thought I'd throw this out there. My ds14 has Aspergers and what you've written describes him. His meltdowns were horrendous. They were like temper tantrums times 100.

 

Some things that helped him (and not just because he is an Aspie, but just things in general):

 

Meltdowns: there is something triggering them. Figure out what it is, and stop it as soon as you see it beginning to build. By the time the child has the meltdown, they've completely run out of coping resources. It's like their bucket is simply empty and there is nothing left to do but breakdown emotionally and physically. It's a horrible, helpless feeling for both of you. In fact, he could be also feel very frightened because feeling out of control can create a panicked feeling. The best things that calmed my son were holding him tightly (not painfully) and drifting my fingers over his skin to create goose bumps.

 

I have figured out that it's best that I give him choices when possible. Would you like to study now or do you need a few minutes first. I also try to let him know what our plans are for the day when I know them. Unfortunately that often backfires. He will start the complaining immediately and can't be distracted on to another subject.

 

Competition: some children just cannot handle it. We learned that when we wanted to play a game, we stayed away from games that hurt feelings and modified rules of other games to make them enjoyable for everyone. For example, we did not play Sorry for years because the kids would cry if one of their pieces got sent back to home. We play Scrabble without tallying points. Things have gotten better as the kids get older, but there are some games we still don't usually play. Ds14 still hates Sorry and Monopoly, but he doesn't mind Uno. Weird. :)

 

It seems as though everything becomes a competition with DS. DD and DS will be playing with their younger cousin and he will complain that DD "stole" cousin away from him because they decided to play something that he didn't want to play. Also, he hates it when he thinks someone is laughing at him. We will be playing a game, laughing and having fun and he will get upset thinking we're laughing at him.

 

Being positive: some personalities just don't feel positive in a natural way. I am a very negative person and I have to work hard at maintaining a positive attitude. It took me years to learn that. My suggestion is to say something positive to him every time he makes a negative comment. If he says the game is hard, smile and say 'I know, but I really like a good challenge. If it's too easy it's boring.' Sometimes it's hard to come up with positive things, at least for me. :tongue_smilie:

I've been toying with the idea of having him keep a journal of 3 positive things everyday. I'm sure making him write would cause another meltdown. Perhaps he would just have to tell us instead of writing it.

 

Self-centered: it would depend on how this is played out. My son always seemed self-centered but he didn't feel snarky about it. He just had, and still has, a hard time putting himself into someone else's shoes. One haunting memory is when he was about 6 and his sister was 4. She fell down in his room and hurt herself. She was crying really loudly and he started yelling at her for being loud and hurting his ears. I thought he was being insensitive and I punished him. Later, when I figured out the problems he had with sensory issues, I felt guilty. Loud noises were very painful to him. He also was extremely sensitive to smells and tastes.

 

I think he does have a hard time putting himself in other people's shoes. We are working on that more.

 

Thank you for your insights!

[Night Elf]

Just a few ideas on your examples:

 

Some examples...

 

1) He will have a friend over to play for a few hours. After the friend leaves, he complains that they didn't have any fun because they didn't get to play legos. I remind him that they had plenty of fun playing Hot Wheels and Wii. I also suggest maybe he could say that he had fun but next time he would like to make sure they play legos as well. At the start of the playdate, ask what each child would like to do and help them make enough time to do each thing. It's easy to get busy playing something and lose a sense of time.

 

2) I find out about something that happened. I ask him about it. He tells me that he doesn't want to tell me what happened because he will get in trouble and he cries. I repeat that I need him to tell me what happened. The crying increases and he repeats that he doesn't want to tell me because he will get in trouble. This cycle continues for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min. until he will finally tell me "the truth". (I'm not convinced it's the truth, but...??) For me, it would depend on what made me question that something happened. Have you had situations where he was frightened to tell you and when he did you got really angry? He could also be worried that you will feel disappointed in him. I'd suggest hugs and reassurances that you will not become angry about whatever happened, but that as the mom, you will have to figure out how to handle it. Maybe you could have a time frame between when he tells you and when you react. Like if a punishment is in order, discuss it when both of you are calm rather than getting lost in the heat of the moment. Anger may frighten him.

 

3) We will go out to eat and then decide to stop by the store on the way home. He throws a fit because he doesn't want to go shopping. He wants to go home. We continue on to the store and suffer through his attitude. He is probably tired. Maybe you can ask him to help you find a compromise, like if you aren't buying perishables, stop at the store before you go out to eat. When you stop at the store, are you going in for something specific or going in with an idea of a few things that takes a while to hunt down and then stand there deciding? If you have something specific, tell him exactly what you're going in to get and ask him to help you. 'Can you remember where they keep the milk?'

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong. That's being a perfectionist. I'm still trying to help my children figure out how to deal with it. I feel the same way about my own school work. :o

 

5) He will ask to go to the park later. We tell him that we will have to see if we have time. Later, when we tell him we won't be able to go to the park, he cries and yells that we lied to him. If he's really literal minded, he needs facts and structure. You probably have a good idea of how much time you will have, so plan accordingly. If you're even slightly unsure that you will have enough time, tell him today isn't a good day but that instead you will do X, and pick something you know he enjoys like playing a specific game with him, watching a show together, preparing his favorite side dish or dessert, etc. If he throws a fit because he can't do what he wants, that's another issue.

 

I'm sure these aren't the best examples but they are just a few that came to mind.

[Rosie_0801]

In what situations, and in what ways is he allowed to be negative? There needs to be a way that is acceptable to both of you. I was allowed to hit pillows when I was angry, but I'm not the pillow hitting kind. I was also allowed to journal, but I could imagine what would happen when someone decided to read it, so I didn't do that either.

 

Rosie

[mom2l&j]

Sounds like my drama queen 7 year old...In all honesty, she's 7 and naturally a very emotional person. We have been taking the approach of teaching her how to manage her emotions. Working through some strategies of how to let her feelings be known without the dramatic reactions. It is a LONG, SLOW process that we have been dealing with since she turned 1, but she is much better today then she was even last year.

 

Thanks for the encouragement. Today was actually not a horrible day just a few horrible moments.

 

The best thing I have done is to realize that I CANNOT reason with her. When she gets in one of her emotional meltdowns, I ask her in a calm voice to go to her room until she can come out and talk to me in a reasonable voice. Sometimes she has voluntarily stayed in her room for 30 minutes getting her emotions under control! When she comes out of her room, we talk about how she was feeling, what went wrong, etc. I always end those conversations with lots of hugs and kisses to let her know that she is a great kid!

I've realized there is no reasoning with him as well. I'm still trying to get DH to realize this. Trying to reason with him just makes him more unreasonable. Then DH gets upset as well. It's a vicious cycle. Hugs and kisses are a definite once he's calmed down.

 

Just for some perspective, my parents' solution for us to put her in ps so that the other kids would tease her so that she would be embarassed to act that way :001_huh:!

 

DS has been in public school and we will be HS next year. ;) He saves the meltdowns for home. He just acted naughty at school. That blows your parents' solution. :lol:

 

Most days it is not fun and very trying to deal with a super emotional child, but :grouphug: to you and prayers as well.

 

I just feel like I must be doing something horribly wrong for him to be this way. Is he just a brat? Am I too critical? This falls under the category of "Things I wish were in the parenting handbook".

[mom2l&j]

In what situations, and in what ways is he allowed to be negative? There needs to be a way that is acceptable to both of you. I was allowed to hit pillows when I was angry, but I'm not the pillow hitting kind. I was also allowed to journal, but I could imagine what would happen when someone decided to read it, so I didn't do that either.

 

Rosie

 

Good question! DH isn't fond of hitting anything as a release. DS views writing as a punishment. I'll have to brainstorm with DH and present some options to DS. Thanks for mentioning this.

[Once]

A couple of thoughts come to mind. First, he is still very young and I do not think a young child will naturally tend toward selflessness, self control and mature thinking. My daugther fit your description and as time has passed she has learned to manage it better. She still has her moments (at 12) but no where near what she did have at 8 years old. Second, some kids just cannot be pushed as much. For example, my son could run "just one more errand" without any problem but I could not do that with my daughter. She just was not that resiliant. It bothered me sometimes but she has grow up to it nicely, she just needed more time.

 

What would I do? What did I do? DHA or Fish Oil suppliments helped. Higher protien diet helps. Lots of down time to develop self monitoring and self control. Lots of demanding exercise. Small amounts of responsibility in the form of service and chores. Consistancy. Talking about why somethings are non-negotiable. (Ie. I understand you are upset. Jean had to leave at the end because it was her supper time. If you want to play Legos, you must put that at the beginning of your play time.) And like NightElf said, stay positive.

 

What you are desciping does not make me automatically think of the autism spectrum but it is good you are open enough to keep your eyes on it. My daughter looked like she was on the spectrum when she was eight (to a close friend in PT) but now 4 years later she does not look anything like it.

 

Hugs to you as I know the burden is great. Don't let his behavior define whether you think you are a good enough parent. Some kids just take longer to mature through the tough stuff. If it helps....my daughter was diagnosed with Sensory Integratio nDefensiveness Disorder and we did a little OT but stopped after awhile. It seems that *she* was able to grow out of it with time and whatever we accidentally found worked.

 

All the Best!!

[KrissiK]

My just turned 8 year old son is very much like that. He's extremely self-centered, the world revolves around him and his needs, he's very demanding of attention, never content with what he has, but is always looking at what everyone else has and wants that, too. Even if what he has is better than everyone else. He complains and complains and complains about everything. We were going to McDonald's and the park one day. "I hate McDonalds and I don't like that park, I want to go to the other one." I have just resigned myself to the fact that it's his personality, I commiserate with a girlfriend who's daughter is exactly the same way and I just keep working with him on thinking about others, etc. etc. etc. And try very hard not to let him push my buttons.

[ktgrok]

Ugh...

 

How in the world do you deal?

 

I feel like we've tried everything we know of to try to help him be more positive, a team player, and more mild.

 

I have a hard time keeping my cool when he has his irrational meltdowns.

 

I need suggestions.

 

ETA: He is 8.

 

Have you considered Aspergers? Because you just described it, at least how it manifests in my son.

 

The biggest change came when we realized he wasn't acting this way because he was naughty or bad or rude, but because he didn't know how else to be. We have to actually teach him how to act on a daily basis. For instance, one day I got angry and said "Don't you know how to act grateful?!?!?" Then all of a sudden realized he DID'NT know how! So I explained to him the exact words and mannerisms that would convey to people that he was in fact grateful. They don't come naturally to him, and he doesn't pick up on them. So he seems rude and self centered, when he really isn't.

 

Maybe i'm off base here, but perhaps this is a similar issue?

[Chelli]

I just feel like I must be doing something horribly wrong for him to be this way. Is he just a brat? Am I too critical? This falls under the category of "Things I wish were in the parenting handbook".

 

I don't think my dd is a brat and I'm sure your son is not either. That being said I have definitely had my share of looks from others when dd "loses her mind" when I tell her we have to leave the McDonald's play area :)

 

But the things I can't stand about her super emotional personality are also some of her biggest strengths if we can just get her to focus that emotion in a constructive way. There is no one I would rather be around than my dd when she is having a good time. That girl enjoys living to the max every day. The world is her oyster and everything about is wonderful and exciting even if we've seen it or done it a thousand times!

 

Just try to view it all in perspective...if you can train him how to harness that emotion, then one day he might do great things because he feels so deeply about it! We just have to make sure our dc never get married...that would be an epic, emotional rollercoaster of a marriage :D

[ktgrok]

Some examples...

 

1) He will have a friend over to play for a few hours. After the friend leaves, he complains that they didn't have any fun because they didn't get to play legos. I remind him that they had plenty of fun playing Hot Wheels and Wii. I also suggest maybe he could say that he had fun but next time he would like to make sure they play legos as well.

 

2) I find out about something that happened. I ask him about it. He tells me that he doesn't want to tell me what happened because he will get in trouble and he cries. I repeat that I need him to tell me what happened. The crying increases and he repeats that he doesn't want to tell me because he will get in trouble. This cycle continues for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min. until he will finally tell me "the truth". (I'm not convinced it's the truth, but...??)

 

3) We will go out to eat and then decide to stop by the store on the way home. He throws a fit because he doesn't want to go shopping. He wants to go home. We continue on to the store and suffer through his attitude.

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong.

 

5) He will ask to go to the park later. We tell him that we will have to see if we have time. Later, when we tell him we won't be able to go to the park, he cries and yells that we lied to him.

 

I'm sure these aren't the best examples but they are just a few that came to mind.

 

Oh my goodness...are you sure you don't have my son? That is EXACTLY how he is. EXACTLY. It is exhausting to be around. And yes, he has aspergers. The need to have things be exactly as you said, the rigidity, the "you lied" thing, the focus on what they didn't do rather than what they did, that is exactly him. I'd research aspergers more.

[mom2l&j]

A couple of thoughts come to mind. First, he is still very young and I do not think a young child will naturally tend toward selflessness, self control and mature thinking. My daugther fit your description and as time has passed she has learned to manage it better. She still has her moments (at 12) but no where near what she did have at 8 years old. Second, some kids just cannot be pushed as much. For example, my son could run "just one more errand" without any problem but I could not do that with my daughter. She just was not that resiliant. It bothered me sometimes but she has grow up to it nicely, she just needed more time.

I just realized that I might have a skewed view because DD was much more mature at this age. I think we need to take that into consideration. However, I have never known another 8 year old as difficult as him.

What would I do? What did I do? DHA or Fish Oil suppliments helped. Higher protien diet helps. Lots of down time to develop self monitoring and self control. Lots of demanding exercise. Small amounts of responsibility in the form of service and chores. Consistancy. Talking about why somethings are non-negotiable. (Ie. I understand you are upset. Jean had to leave at the end because it was her supper time. If you want to play Legos, you must put that at the beginning of your play time.) And like NightElf said, stay positive.

 

What you are desciping does not make me automatically think of the autism spectrum but it is good you are open enough to keep your eyes on it. My daughter looked like she was on the spectrum when she was eight (to a close friend in PT) but now 4 years later she does not look anything like it.

 

Hugs to you as I know the burden is great. Don't let his behavior define whether you think you are a good enough parent. Some kids just take longer to mature through the tough stuff. If it helps....my daughter was diagnosed with Sensory Integratio nDefensiveness Disorder and we did a little OT but stopped after awhile. It seems that *she* was able to grow out of it with time and whatever we accidentally found worked.

 

All the Best!!

 

 

Thank you for the encouragement! It really does help knowing that we aren't alone.

[mom2l&j]

Oh my goodness...are you sure you don't have my son? That is EXACTLY how he is. EXACTLY. It is exhausting to be around. And yes, he has aspergers. The need to have things be exactly as you said, the rigidity, the "you lied" thing, the focus on what they didn't do rather than what they did, that is exactly him. I'd research aspergers more.

 

LOL...I will take another look at it.

[mom2l&j]

I don't think my dd is a brat and I'm sure your son is not either. That being said I have definitely had my share of looks from others when dd "loses her mind" when I tell her we have to leave the McDonald's play area :)

 

But the things I can't stand about her super emotional personality are also some of her biggest strengths if we can just get her to focus that emotion in a constructive way. There is no one I would rather be around than my dd when she is having a good time. That girl enjoys living to the max every day. The world is her oyster and everything about is wonderful and exciting even if we've seen it or done it a thousand times!

 

Just try to view it all in perspective...if you can train him how to harness that emotion, then one day he might do great things because he feels so deeply about it! We just have to make sure our dc never get married...that would be an epic, emotional rollercoaster of a marriage :D

 

I know that if we could just gets DS's energy focused in the right way he will be extremely successful. Persistence is highly valued in adults. ;)

[Just Robyn]

In what situations, and in what ways is he allowed to be negative? There needs to be a way that is acceptable to both of you. I was allowed to hit pillows when I was angry, but I'm not the pillow hitting kind. I was also allowed to journal, but I could imagine what would happen when someone decided to read it, so I didn't do that either.

 

Rosie

 

:iagree:

 

As a naturally negative person, the very worst thing you can do to me when I'm upset is try to cheer me up. I need time to work through my thoughts and feelings. For me, that means I need quiet alone time. There is no making me into a positive person. If I gave my opinion on that I'm sure I would offend the majority of people here.

 

Okay, here's kind of an oddball thing I'll add. I've just read a Rudolf Steiner book called The Four Temperaments. Yes, there is a lot of absolute bologna in there. (It is a Waldorf book if you're not familiar with the name.) However, some of it, the stuff that seemed to be related to psychology research and not new age beliefs, seemed right on, and at very least worth considering and maybe looking for a better source of information on it. Here goes. The suggestion for people like me (termed "melancholic") is to find some external way to be unhappy. If you're going to be unhappy, be unhappy about something in the world other than yourself and your own life. (Pardon me if I've misinterpreted this.) I'm not sure how an 8 year old does that. I'm just throwing it out there.

[Once]

Thank you for the encouragement! It really does help knowing that we aren't alone.

 

Just a few quick thoughts....just like your son saves his worst behavior for you....other kids save their worst behavior for their family at home. Also, my younger son....although was very mature for a while......has gone through a few challenging moments, too. With my daughter, I always know when something is brewing...with my son....It is a much deeper issue by the time I clued in.

 

I encourage you to take care of yourself, whatever form that takes. You still have a few challenging years ahead and you deserve the breaks!

[Sputterduck]

Some examples...

 

1) He will have a friend over to play for a few hours. After the friend leaves, he complains that they didn't have any fun because they didn't get to play legos. I remind him that they had plenty of fun playing Hot Wheels and Wii. I also suggest maybe he could say that he had fun but next time he would like to make sure they play legos as well.

 

2) I find out about something that happened. I ask him about it. He tells me that he doesn't want to tell me what happened because he will get in trouble and he cries. I repeat that I need him to tell me what happened. The crying increases and he repeats that he doesn't want to tell me because he will get in trouble. This cycle continues for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min. until he will finally tell me "the truth". (I'm not convinced it's the truth, but...??)

 

3) We will go out to eat and then decide to stop by the store on the way home. He throws a fit because he doesn't want to go shopping. He wants to go home. We continue on to the store and suffer through his attitude.

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong.

 

5) He will ask to go to the park later. We tell him that we will have to see if we have time. Later, when we tell him we won't be able to go to the park, he cries and yells that we lied to him.

 

I'm sure these aren't the best examples but they are just a few that came to mind.

 

We have rules about not making everyone around you miserable. A consistent bad attitude is not okay for a person or for everyone who has to be around them.

 

If he didn't appreciate his friend being over, and then complained over some little detail, then guess what? He doesn't get to have friends over if he can't appreciate them.

The going on for 20 minutes when you are asking about what happened sounds like attention-seeking behavior to me. Doing things that make others miserable solely for attention is not acceptable.

Having a bad attitude because he doesn't want to go shopping makes everyone else suffer. That is not acceptable.

Complaining about doing horrible on an assignment... mine would first get a reminder to not be a perfectionist to the point of complaining and makes others miserable. Then he would get in trouble if he kept going because at that point it's blatant disobedience.

Telling you that you are a liar because you won't take him to the park because you don't have time is just downright mean.

 

All of these things seem to be rooted in attitude problems. My parents used to call solving this an "attitude adjustment". Life would stop for my kid until he could respect others and stop making people miserable. It's not okay to go through life shoving your moods on others. I have even said to my kid, "Hey! No one wants to be around you if you make them miserable." It's true. It's a major life lesson.

[cjzimmer1]

I have one of these as well as though it has gotten better as he's gotten older. I've know since he was pretty little that my DS was gifted. I just never really knew the extent of it. I too had considered Aspies since some of the traits were dead on, but there was enough others that didn't fit at all that I was pretty sure that wasn't the problem.

 

In doing the research though I learned that there is a lot of overlap between Aspies and gifted kids. Once I started researching gifted kids I realized this was some of my issues. He consitently runs 3-6 grade levels ahead (depending on the subject). Once I radically accelerated his curriculum, his behavior improved immensely. Turns out he was very bored. Also the more advanced a kid is in one area (whether it's academics, or sports or music or anything else), the more likely he will be behind in someone other area.

 

For gifted kids, it's fairly common for their emotional level to be behind. So while my son is very advance academically he is about 3 years behind in his emotional level. So if I can logically explain why something has to happen that he is will not like, before we reach meltdown stage, he will often times understand why that disappointment has to occur and handle it better. If I spring in on him, or just say no it hits his brain at the emotional level and he reacts poorly because that side of his brain simply isn't as developed yet. Once I realized all this is was much easier to understand why my 5 year old would have meltdowns like a 2 year old - because emotionally he operated there most of the time and I was expecting the emotional response of a 5 year old because his body was that old but I failed to recognize that emotionally he was not there.

 

He's still negative and moody (but now he's 13 so that is somewhat expected) but I have found that some of this can be avoided simply by my approach to the problem. But the good news is that he is SOOOOOO much better than when he was 8 (and we actually had testing done because he was so impossible at that age)

[ktgrok]

We have rules about not making everyone around you miserable. A consistent bad attitude is not okay for a person or for everyone who has to be around them.

 

If he didn't appreciate his friend being over, and then complained over some little detail, then guess what? He doesn't get to have friends over if he can't appreciate them.

The going on for 20 minutes when you are asking about what happened sounds like attention-seeking behavior to me. Doing things that make others miserable solely for attention is not acceptable.

Having a bad attitude because he doesn't want to go shopping makes everyone else suffer. That is not acceptable.

Complaining about doing horrible on an assignment... mine would first get a reminder to not be a perfectionist to the point of complaining and makes others miserable. Then he would get in trouble if he kept going because at that point it's blatant disobedience.

Telling you that you are a liar because you won't take him to the park because you don't have time is just downright mean.

 

All of these things seem to be rooted in attitude problems. My parents used to call solving this an "attitude adjustment". Life would stop for my kid until he could respect others and stop making people miserable. It's not okay to go through life shoving your moods on others. I have even said to my kid, "Hey! No one wants to be around you if you make them miserable." It's true. It's a major life lesson.

 

To a point, i agree with this. Heck, before I had my son I TOTALLY agreed with it. But he honestly doesn't do this just to get attention. He is honestly upset when he is acting negatively. And he doesn't know what to do to change it. We used to punish him for the behavior. Punishing him never once changed his attitude. It just reaffirmed to him that life sucked. We have had to take a very different approach, which is working well. But the tough love approach that was our method for years just didn't do a darned thing except hurt our relationship and lead to him becoming clinically depressed.

 

If you haven't had a kid like this, I could see how that would sound crazy.

[Once]

:iagree:

 

As a naturally negative person, the very worst thing you can do to me when I'm upset is try to cheer me up. I need time to work through my thoughts and feelings. For me, that means I need quiet alone time. There is no making me into a positive person. If I gave my opinion on that I'm sure I would offend the majority of people here.

 

Yes. These are wise words. I do not try to cheer up my daughter but I do try to give her down time to work things through. Then I go in to help her bounce the rest of the negative thoughts away.

[fairfarmhand]

Some examples...

 

1) He will have a friend over to play for a few hours. After the friend leaves, he complains that they didn't have any fun because they didn't get to play legos. I remind him that they had plenty of fun playing Hot Wheels and Wii. I also suggest maybe he could say that he had fun but next time he would like to make sure they play legos as well.

My response:sorry you had such a horrible time. I guess we won't be having company again for awhile since it upsets you so badly. (turn and walk away, then follow through)

 

2) I find out about something that happened. I ask him about it. He tells me that he doesn't want to tell me what happened because he will get in trouble and he cries. I repeat that I need him to tell me what happened. The crying increases and he repeats that he doesn't want to tell me because he will get in trouble. This cycle continues for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min. until he will finally tell me "the truth". (I'm not convinced it's the truth, but...??)

My response: I know x happened. I am pretty sure you know something about it. You may sit in your room till you decide to fill me in on the details. (follow through)

 

3) We will go out to eat and then decide to stop by the store on the way home. He throws a fit because he doesn't want to go shopping. He wants to go home. We continue on to the store and suffer through his attitude.

Whatever punishment you have for lousy attitudes will be appropriate here. I might give him a heads up while at the restaurant so he can get used to the idea. I would tell him we must pick up x,y and z, and that is all. And I would stick to that.

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong.

my response: Well, I think you did fine. Shrug.

 

5) He will ask to go to the park later. We tell him that we will have to see if we have time. Later, when we tell him we won't be able to go to the park, he cries and yells that we lied to him.

I never say maybe. My kid needs concrete. It is easier to say no, and then later have a "surprise" than to deal with the drama. For instance, we'd make plans to go to the park. it would rain and then we couldn't go. So mom lied about it. So I don't even halfway commit unless I am sure it will work out.

 

 

I'm sure these aren't the best examples but they are just a few that came to mind.

My advice....don't feed the drama. Many of these in my kid were attention seeking behaviors.

[mom2l&j]

We have rules about not making everyone around you miserable. A consistent bad attitude is not okay for a person or for everyone who has to be around them.

 

If he didn't appreciate his friend being over, and then complained over some little detail, then guess what? He doesn't get to have friends over if he can't appreciate them.

The going on for 20 minutes when you are asking about what happened sounds like attention-seeking behavior to me. Doing things that make others miserable solely for attention is not acceptable.

Having a bad attitude because he doesn't want to go shopping makes everyone else suffer. That is not acceptable.

Complaining about doing horrible on an assignment... mine would first get a reminder to not be a perfectionist to the point of complaining and makes others miserable. Then he would get in trouble if he kept going because at that point it's blatant disobedience.

Telling you that you are a liar because you won't take him to the park because you don't have time is just downright mean.

 

All of these things seem to be rooted in attitude problems. My parents used to call solving this an "attitude adjustment". Life would stop for my kid until he could respect others and stop making people miserable. It's not okay to go through life shoving your moods on others. I have even said to my kid, "Hey! No one wants to be around you if you make them miserable." It's true. It's a major life lesson.

 

Honestly, this made me cry. We've done all this stuff. Simply, it doesn't work for DS. It works great for DD, but not DS.

[Paige]

Someone on this board posted a recommendation a year or two ago for this book for kids who complain a lot:

http://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Grumble-Much/dp/1591474507/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1306639648&sr=8-1

 

I'd do a fancy link but for some reason none of the forum buttons are working for me. It's called What to Do When You Grumble Too Much. I went through it with my son when he was about 8 and it has helped so much. He is not an aspie. He is an intense, quirky kid, and I'm not in denial, but it is possible to be quirky and not on the spectrum. My DS is just a glass half full kind of guy who is serious about life.

 

My DS saw himself in the book, he thought it was funny, and it made him want to be more cheerful and happier. Your DS is not enjoying himself either with the negativity. I was skeptical, but after a year I definitely think he is much better and that he's better because he/we are using the tools we worked on in the workbook. It could be maturity as well, but I can remind him of some key things in the book when he gets in a funk and he then he says, "Oh yeah," and works to shake off whatever was bothering him. He's still not as easy going as the rest of us but at least he doesn't mope around thinking the world is against him anymore.

[Once]

Honestly, this made me cry. We've done all this stuff. Simply, it doesn't work for DS. It works great for DD, but not DS.

 

Follow your heart....if you think an authoritive parenting style does not work for him then do not use it. I can relate to your thoughts on this. When I stopped the authoritative parenting with my daughter she started getting better. It just takes lots of time, talking and guidance for some kids. It is well worth the wait. Today my daughter made a whole dinner meal for me for my birthday and babysat her two brothers so my husband and I could go out for a lunch date. She is knitting me a birthday gift, too. They do grow up when you love them with consistance guidance and rules (without the punishments for each infraction...it just takes time)

[mom2l&j]

I have one of these as well as though it has gotten better as he's gotten older. I've know since he was pretty little that my DS was gifted. I just never really knew the extent of it. I too had considered Aspies since some of the traits were dead on, but there was enough others that didn't fit at all that I was pretty sure that wasn't the problem.

 

In doing the research though I learned that there is a lot of overlap between Aspies and gifted kids. Once I started researching gifted kids I realized this was some of my issues. He consitently runs 3-6 grade levels ahead (depending on the subject). Once I radically accelerated his curriculum, his behavior improved immensely. Turns out he was very bored. Also the more advanced a kid is in one area (whether it's academics, or sports or music or anything else), the more likely he will be behind in someone other area.

 

For gifted kids, it's fairly common for their emotional level to be behind. So while my son is very advance academically he is about 3 years behind in his emotional level. So if I can logically explain why something has to happen that he is will not like, before we reach meltdown stage, he will often times understand why that disappointment has to occur and handle it better. If I spring in on him, or just say no it hits his brain at the emotional level and he reacts poorly because that side of his brain simply isn't as developed yet. Once I realized all this is was much easier to understand why my 5 year old would have meltdowns like a 2 year old - because emotionally he operated there most of the time and I was expecting the emotional response of a 5 year old because his body was that old but I failed to recognize that emotionally he was not there.

 

He's still negative and moody (but now he's 13 so that is somewhat expected) but I have found that some of this can be avoided simply by my approach to the problem. But the good news is that he is SOOOOOO much better than when he was 8 (and we actually had testing done because he was so impossible at that age)

 

Thank you. I will look in to this more. DS just finished 2nd grade in PS. He was in the top reading group with 2 other girls so I know he is ahead of the curve. I just need to figure out how far. He also does quite well at math. Is there really a way to figure out if he's gifted other than seeing how much I can challenge him? PS didn't do any testing until 3rd grade.

[mom2l&j]

Someone on this board posted a recommendation a year or two ago for this book for kids who complain a lot:

http://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Grumble-Much/dp/1591474507/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1306639648&sr=8-1

 

I'd do a fancy link but for some reason none of the forum buttons are working for me. It's called What to Do When You Grumble Too Much. I went through it with my son when he was about 8 and it has helped so much. He is not an aspie. He is an intense, quirky kid, and I'm not in denial, but it is possible to be quirky and not on the spectrum. My DS is just a glass half full kind of guy who is serious about life.

 

My DS saw himself in the book, he thought it was funny, and it made him want to be more cheerful and happier. Your DS is not enjoying himself either with the negativity. I was skeptical, but after a year I definitely think he is much better and that he's better because he/we are using the tools we worked on in the workbook. It could be maturity as well, but I can remind him of some key things in the book when he gets in a funk and he then he says, "Oh yeah," and works to shake off whatever was bothering him. He's still not as easy going as the rest of us but at least he doesn't mope around thinking the world is against him anymore.

 

We will be getting that book. Thank you!

[Sputterduck]

Honestly, this made me cry. We've done all this stuff. Simply, it doesn't work for DS. It works great for DD, but not DS.

 

Now I certainly didn't mean to make you cry. What do you do to communicate that it is not acceptable?

 

I have brought my child to his room and told him that he was welcome to come and be a part of the family when he could behave appropriately. And I meant it. Around the times that I needed to give him an "attitude adjustment" his world literally did stop. No friends, no fun, no anything. And when his world was allowed to start again, any slip into nasty attitude ended up in everything stopping again. Period. I don't mean friendly reminders and discussions about how we are affecting others. I mean the world ends. There are certain things I cannot deal with and miserable people make everyone else miserable is one of them. Because of that, I put up a very solid wall between my child and this kind of behavior.

 

Our household is extremely tranquil. I know my son and I know that raised differently he'd be a harbinger of chaos and misery. :lol: I laugh, but it's true. Instead he's extremely respectful, very well behaved, etc.

 

You know how some people go "Kids these days. I would have never ______ to my parents when I was young." ? That'll be my kid when he's grown. There are certain ways you don't behave around mama. And I don't have a temper. I can get *very* serious though. Like my great-grandpa. He never spanked his kids. All he had to do was look at them. Poor man was a single father of 6, but his kids never crossed him. The "look" was too awful.:lol: They *still* talk about it and they're all around 90 years old.

[Sputterduck]

And FWIW, my aunt had a child with the worst temper I've ever seen. Hours and hours long tantrums when he was your child's age. He would turn purple with rage and tear everything apart. He is now 20 and getting fabulous grades at a university and very kind and polite. He is a fabulous adult who wants to marry a woman just like his mom.:001_wub:

 

He was way further off than it sounds like yours is. He'll learn and you will live. It's all awful in the moment and it's all worth it in the end.

[Desert Rat]

We have a positive chart at our house. I printed it for free from a behavioral charts website. I really think my ds11's negativity is mostly habit. I tend to be a negative thinker so I know where he gets this behavior.

Here's what we do (and it's worked for us!):

He has a chart with numbers 1-5. 5 is a really good day! He gets 2 warnings that he needs to change his attitude/facial expression/behavior. Then he loses a point.

Here's the reward:

He collects bionicles...absolutely loves them! (But you can use any toy that has pieces or make play money he can trade in for a prize, etc.)

So, a 5 day earns him 2 bionicle pieces.

A 4 day gets him 1.

Less than that is 0.

I buy one of the $20 bionicles so it's got about 150 pieces or so. He doesn't get to see the picture and he gets the instructions on the last day. We had a special dinner when he completed his bionicle.

 

He is a competitive child. I used this to my advantage. He HATED not earning his pieces. So he really worked on being positive. He's a very self-centered child but we really worked on him THINKING differently, not internalizing his feelings.

I noticed a change after the first week. By week 3, I overheard him saying kind things to his brother (which is very rare for this child). By the end of the "project" he rarely said a negative thing, except for dinners he didn't like.

Now, 5 months later, he's slipping again. Up goes the chart. The positive reinforcement is already there so I'm anticipating as easier go of it this time round. I will continue to repeat this process until I feel he doesn't need it anymore. Heck, I think I need a chart this week!

Hope this helps!

[Rosie_0801]

:iagree:

 

As a naturally negative person, the very worst thing you can do to me when I'm upset is try to cheer me up. I need time to work through my thoughts and feelings. For me, that means I need quiet alone time. There is no making me into a positive person. If I gave my opinion on that I'm sure I would offend the majority of people here.

 

Mm. If either of my kids turn out like me, I'll be working on them using a validation + silver lining formula.

 

Kid: "I had an awful time."

Adult: "Oh yeah? You looked like you were having fun."

Kid: "I didn't get to play lego."

Adult: "That's a bummer, but hey, at least you had a visitor instead of spending the day with boring old me!"

Kid: "Hmph. I guess."

 

Eventually that'll morph into:

 

Adult: "Hey, what's your issue?"

Kid: "I didn't get to play lego."

Adult: "Oh, that's a shame."

Kid: "Yeah, but at least we got to use the remote control cars."

Adult: "Well, they are cool."

Kid: "Yep!" followed by a ten minute run down in more detail than you want on how cool they are. :rolleyes:

 

It might not work on your kid, but it works on many Eeyore types. :)

 

Rosie

[mom2l&j]

Now I certainly didn't mean to make you cry. What do you do to communicate that it is not acceptable?

 

I have brought my child to his room and told him that he was welcome to come and be a part of the family when he could behave appropriately. And I meant it. Around the times that I needed to give him an "attitude adjustment" his world literally did stop. No friends, no fun, no anything. And when his world was allowed to start again, any slip into nasty attitude ended up in everything stopping again. Period. I don't mean friendly reminders and discussions about how we are affecting others. I mean the world ends. There are certain things I cannot deal with and miserable people make everyone else miserable is one of them. Because of that, I put up a very solid wall between my child and this kind of behavior.

 

Our household is extremely tranquil. I know my son and I know that raised differently he'd be a harbinger of chaos and misery. :lol: I laugh, but it's true. Instead he's extremely respectful, very well behaved, etc.

 

You know how some people go "Kids these days. I would have never ______ to my parents when I was young." ? That'll be my kid when he's grown. There are certain ways you don't behave around mama. And I don't have a temper. I can get *very* serious though. Like my great-grandpa. He never spanked his kids. All he had to do was look at them. Poor man was a single father of 6, but his kids never crossed him. The "look" was too awful.:lol: They *still* talk about it and they're all around 90 years old.

 

I know you didn't mean to make me cry. It's just that I've said the same thing about other people and now it's not working for us.

 

We've told him that if he can't be grateful for what he has then he won't have it. We've taken it away. No change. Goodwill has received a lot of donations from us.

 

You need to go to your room until you can play the game with the rest of the family without ______.

 

You need to go to your room to calm down. You can come out when you can tell me calmly what happened.

 

I can't tell you how many nights he's spent in his room in hysterics. By himself. At a certain point I go in and get him in his pajamas and he goes to bed. I tell him I'm sorry he had a rough night, but don't feed in to the drama.

 

It works for me at the time. I don't have to deal with the drama, but it is making him MISERABLE.

Edited May 29, 2011 by mom2l&j

[cjzimmer1]

Thank you. I will look in to this more. DS just finished 2nd grade in PS. He was in the top reading group with 2 other girls so I know he is ahead of the curve. I just need to figure out how far. He also does quite well at math. Is there really a way to figure out if he's gifted other than seeing how much I can challenge him? PS didn't do any testing until 3rd grade.

 

We did the testing privately (and can be done at any age if you have the $). It was not cheap but it helped me so much (and gave me confidence to leap accelerate to levels I never would have considered - example when he was 7- almost 8 he asked to learn algebra (because my husband had gone back to college and was currently taken algebra and DS saw the book and was interested in it). Never in my wildest dreams would I have been willing to teach a 7/8 year old algebra even when he asked. The testing (we did an IQ test and the WISC IV - which is an achievement test and in my opinion the more useful of the two for getting a handle on where they are working academically) told us he had already intuitively figured out many of the basic algebra concepts and some that aren't even introduced until advanced algebra.

 

But before pursuing testing, I would do some reading on giftedness. It should give you a feel for some of the more common traits and you can see if that "fits" with some of the stuff you see in your kid. I already knew my kid was gifted (from reading books and online research) and testing was a last resort because I simply did not know what else to do with him. The testing showed me he was a much higher level of giftedness than I would have expected and helped me move ahead faster for curriculum (for instance we went through 4th, 5th, and 6th grade math curriculum in about 6 months and then started Algebra when he was about 8 1/2)

 

Also you could try placement tests (if you son is willing but at that age my son might do 1 but not multiple ones to give me an accurate picture) above his grade level and see how he does. It might give you a better handle on his ability level.

[mom2l&j]

Mm. If either of my kids turn out like me, I'll be working on them using a validation + silver lining formula.

 

Kid: "I had an awful time."

Adult: "Oh yeah? You looked like you were having fun."

Kid: "I didn't get to play lego."

Adult: "That's a bummer, but hey, at least you had a visitor instead of spending the day with boring old me!"

Kid: "Hmph. I guess."

 

Eventually that'll morph into:

 

Adult: "Hey, what's your issue?"

Kid: "I didn't get to play lego."

Adult: "Oh, that's a shame."

Kid: "Yeah, but at least we got to use the remote control cars."

Adult: "Well, they are cool."

Kid: "Yep!" followed by a ten minute run down in more detail than you want on how cool they are. :rolleyes:

 

It might not work on your kid, but it works on many Eeyore types. :)

 

Rosie

This is what I'm hoping for. :)

[Anne Rittenhouse]

I you have the space in the yard and can allow him to do it, in that part of your lawn will never look good. Hand him a shovel and tell him to dig a hole until he feels better.

[mom2l&j]

I you have the space in the yard and can allow him to do it, in that part of your lawn will never look good. Hand him a shovel and tell him to dig a hole until he feels better.

That's a good idea. :001_smile:

[Sputterduck]

I know you didn't mean to make me cry. It's just that I've said the same thing about other people and now it's not working for us.

 

We've told him that if he can't be grateful for what he has then he won't have it. We've taken it away. No change. Goodwill has received a lot of donations from us.

 

You need to go to your room until you can play the game with the rest of the family without ______.

 

You need to go to your room to calm down. You can come out when you can tell me calmly what happened.

 

I can't tell you how many nights he's spent in his room in hysterics. By himself. At a certain point I go in and get him in his pajamas and he goes to bed. I tell him I'm sorry he had a rough night, but don't feed in to the drama.

 

It works for me at the time. I don't have to deal with the drama, but it is making him MISERABLE.

 

Well, most will learn after being miserable 100 times over that it's not worth being miserable. Putting the miserable in his court and removing yourself from the drama is great thing, in my mind.

 

Dr. Phil says that people do what works for them. If he's wallowing in misery enough times, he'll probably quit eventually. The rest of you have a grand ol' time in the rest of the house.

 

It make take 100 repetitions for him every night in a row, but kids do learn.

[Sputterduck]

I you have the space in the yard and can allow him to do it, in that part of your lawn will never look good. Hand him a shovel and tell him to dig a hole until he feels better.

 

I think that's fabulous.

[Corraleno]

What would I do? What did I do? DHA or Fish Oil suppliments helped. Higher protien diet helps. Lots of down time to develop self monitoring and self control. Lots of demanding exercise. Small amounts of responsibility in the form of service and chores. Consistancy. Talking about why somethings are non-negotiable. (Ie. I understand you are upset. Jean had to leave at the end because it was her supper time. If you want to play Legos, you must put that at the beginning of your play time.) And like NightElf said, stay positive.

 

<snip>If it helps....my daughter was diagnosed with Sensory Integratio nDefensiveness Disorder and we did a little OT but stopped after awhile. It seems that *she* was able to grow out of it with time and whatever we accidentally found worked.

:iagree:

with everything Once said, here and in her other posts. My son was exactly the same way, he also has SPD (and is gifted), the same things worked for us, and he has also grown out of a LOT of the difficult behaviors.

 

I just feel like I must be doing something horribly wrong for him to be this way. Is he just a brat? Am I too critical?

The hardest thing about parenting kids like this is getting advice from parents who don't have kids like this. No, they're not being brats or seeking attention. They have brains and nervous systems that are on high alert and easily overwhelmed. Many times they have low seratonin, hence the constant "Eeyore attitude." All the things Once mentioned in the post above can help: diet, exercise, fish oil (try Vit D3 as well), lots of down time, and as much consistency as you can manage. Telling kids like this that they're bad or ungrateful or "need to change their attitude right now" only makes things worse — they know there's something wrong with them, and they have no idea how to fix it. They can't rewire their brains or manipulate their biochemistry on command.

 

My DS was just like yours when he was little, and I feared for his future. He just turned 13 and he's the sweetest, nicest, most compassionate and thoughtful kid I know. Seriously! The kid I once carried screaming out of Ikea holding him by the front of his jacket and one pant leg, is now a constant source of complements from other parents: he does whatever he's asked (assuming he remembers — he may need lots of reminders ;)), he never talks back, he always says please and thank you, he rarely complains about school (just math, lol) and he does way more chores than any of his friends.

 

He did not get that way from years of spanking or tough love or ignoring the "outbursts." He's growing into a mature, responsible, loving kid because he was treated with love and compassion and respect. The single most important thing you can convey to your son is that you are on his team, and that your job is to help him deal with the issues of negativity and self-control that upset him just as much as they upset you. One thing I taught my son was that he can always ask for a hug and he will get it — no questions asked, no arguments about whether he really needs it or he's just stalling or whatever. He can always ask for a hug and he will get a hug. He towers over me now, but he still asks for a hug whenever he's upset or needs help calming down.

 

Hang in there — it will get better. Do some research on giftedness, on SPD, on anxiety (these things often go together). And just love on him — a lot. These kids need all the love you can pour into them.

 

Jackie

[ktgrok]

Well, most will learn after being miserable 100 times over that it's not worth being miserable. Putting the miserable in his court and removing yourself from the drama is great thing, in my mind.

 

Dr. Phil says that people do what works for them. If he's wallowing in misery enough times, he'll probably quit eventually. The rest of you have a grand ol' time in the rest of the house.

 

It make take 100 repetitions for him every night in a row, but kids do learn.

 

 

This assumes that the child knows how to act differently and just needs a good enough incentive. The problem is that there are some kids (hopefully not many) that really don't know how to change. Sending them into their room alone until they change their attitude is like sending a kindergartner to their room until they figure out algebra. They need help (although they won't ask for it). Once we stopped punishing (and his world did indeed end - no friends, no tv, no toys or even furniture at one point) and started TEACHING the right way to act it was so much better.

 

It is not perfect. He still gets angrier than most kids, more often. But so much less. There is so much less whining about what he doesn't have, etc. But saying "change your attitude" never helped. He didn't know how. Saying concrete things like "you are angry because you are sad about not playing legos. It is ok to be sad. You can say "man, we had fun but I wish we had played legos. Next time I want to play legos first so we don't forget". Then if he wasn't totally past reason I'd have him actually repeat that. Then I explain calmly that if he is going to complain when he has friends over, and complain when he doesn't have friends over, I have no incentive to let him have friends over, do I? Then, and this is the important part, I give him words to say that would sound grateful. Something like "I'm glad I had a friend over even if we didn't play legos." I have him repeat it and explain that saying this helps me know that he had fun, so that I will be more likely to let him have a friend over again.

 

I know that sounds ridiculous to have to actually explain. But it works for my son. Instead of getting angrier and angrier he is realizing the right thing to say. He doesn't always do it, but with reminding he is doing so much better.

 

It is worth a try!

[ktgrok]

:iagree:

with everything Once said, here and in her other posts. My son was exactly the same way, he also has SPD (and is gifted), the same things worked for us, and he has also grown out of a LOT of the difficult behaviors.

 

 

The hardest thing about parenting kids like this is getting advice from parents who don't have kids like this. No, they're not being brats or seeking attention. They have brains and nervous systems that are on high alert and easily overwhelmed. Many times they have low seratonin, hence the constant "Eeyore attitude." All the things Once mentioned in the post above can help: diet, exercise, fish oil (try Vit D3 as well), lots of down time, and as much consistency as you can manage. Telling kids like this that they're bad or ungrateful or "need to change their attitude right now" only makes things worse — they know there's something wrong with them, and they have no idea how to fix it. They can't rewire their brains or manipulate their biochemistry on command.

 

My DS was just like yours when he was little, and I feared for his future. He just turned 13 and he's the sweetest, nicest, most compassionate and thoughtful kid I know. Seriously! The kid I once carried screaming out of Ikea holding him by the front of his jacket and one pant leg, is now a constant source of complements from other parents: he does whatever he's asked (assuming he remembers — he may need lots of reminders ;)), he never talks back, he always says please and thank you, he rarely complains about school (just math, lol) and he does way more chores than any of his friends.

 

He did not get that way from years of spanking or tough love or ignoring the "outbursts." He's growing into a mature, responsible, loving kid because he was treated with love and compassion and respect. The single most important thing you can convey to your son is that you are on his team, and that your job is to help him deal with the issues of negativity and self-control that upset him just as much as they upset you. One thing I taught my son was that he can always ask for a hug and he will get it — no questions asked, no arguments about whether he really needs it or he's just stalling or whatever. He can always ask for a hug and he will get a hug. He towers over me now, but he still asks for a hug whenever he's upset or needs help calming down.

 

Hang in there — it will get better. Do some research on giftedness, on SPD, on anxiety (these things often go together). And just love on him — a lot. These kids need all the love you can pour into them.

Jackie

 

:iagree: This is so true. And these kids, man are they hard. But I feel like they will be so grateful one day, and our biggest champions.

[stripe]

Sending them into their room alone until they change their attitude is like sending a kindergartner to their room until they figure out algebra. They need help (although they won't ask for it). Once we stopped punishing (and his world did indeed end - no friends, no tv, no toys or even furniture at one point) and started TEACHING the right way to act it was so much better.

 

I think this is really key. I think we find kids annoying and want them to change, without realizing that they don't know how, and that we have to be part of helping them, instead of telling them "Your behavior is bad, so change it." I think our role-- all parents' roles, but more so homeschooling parents' roles -- really does need to be to teach.

 

My kids don't become calmer when I take things away from them or send them away.

 

Honestly, I don't either.

 

I also really dislike when someone tries to tell me how to feel. It just bugs me. So I try not to do it to my kids. So if they say something, I try NOT to contradict their stated feelings. If they say they didn't have fun doing something, I don't think it's that helpful to say, "Well, it looks like you did!" or "Be happy you have friends, some kids are orphans with nothing to play with but an old tire!" I guess I try to think of how to talk to them in a way that I would like to be spoken too. I think you can help someone, even correct them, without denying their dignity or trying to dictate their feelings to them. I try to remember that they are complicated little people, but people first and foremost.

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong.

I do try to cultivate the idea that one needs to make mistakes to learn.

Edited May 29, 2011 by stripe

[WishboneDawn]

Some examples...

 

1) He will have a friend over to play for a few hours. After the friend leaves, he complains that they didn't have any fun because they didn't get to play legos. I remind him that they had plenty of fun playing Hot Wheels and Wii. I also suggest maybe he could say that he had fun but next time he would like to make sure they play legos as well.

 

Maybe next time just barely acknowledge what he's said. If he complains give him a distracted, "Oh well." It may be he's learned his attitude gets him attention so save all the attention for when he's positive and meet the negative stuff with an extreme lack of interest.

 

2) I find out about something that happened. I ask him about it. He tells me that he doesn't want to tell me what happened because he will get in trouble and he cries. I repeat that I need him to tell me what happened. The crying increases and he repeats that he doesn't want to tell me because he will get in trouble. This cycle continues for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min. until he will finally tell me "the truth". (I'm not convinced it's the truth, but...??)

 

Don't engage him. Just send him to his room and let him know he can come out when he's ready to explain the truth. Again, that'll keep the attention he gets to a minimum. Check in every once in awhile to ask if he's ready to talk but don't engage in any discussions. I'm betting he won't start playing, I'm betting he'll sulk and wail but without an audience it won't feel the same.

 

3) We will go out to eat and then decide to stop by the store on the way home. He throws a fit because he doesn't want to go shopping. He wants to go home. We continue on to the store and suffer through his attitude.

 

I'd probably try to keep to stay predictable in cases like that. If you think you might have to go to the store let him know before hand. Other wise just repeat the disinterest.

 

4) He tells me that he did horrible on an assignment because he got 2 wrong.

 

Again, "Oh well," and then go right into the next bit of schooling.

 

5) He will ask to go to the park later. We tell him that we will have to see if we have time. Later, when we tell him we won't be able to go to the park, he cries and yells that we lied to him.

 

"Oh well," then ignore. If you're at home, send him to his room. When he's calmed down later then you can discuss it ("Do you know what a lie is? Do you remember what I told you about how we MIGHT go?"). Anytime he starts to over react tell him you'll be back when he's calm and then leave.

 

My son is prone to this kind of behaviour, not as extreme but still, the best method with him is disinterest on the little complaints, Puttinghim in his room and ignoring the big drama and then giving him the discussions and attention when he's calm and reasonable.