Needing advice on my almost teen DD - really really long

[CanaryMelody]

** editing to delete personal content **

[kalanamak]

:grouphug: Can you afford family counseling?

 

If I had a magic wand or easy answers, I surely send them your way. :grouphug:

[CanaryMelody]

:grouphug: Can you afford family counseling?

 

If I had a magic wand or easy answers, I surely send them your way. :grouphug:

 

We have an appointment with a psychologist this week. I'm not sure if that is "family counseling" though or just for DD? :confused:

[ondreeuh]

Your dd has gone through a lot and it sounds like she is really hurting. I think this is really a situation where you need additional help. Family counseling - absolutely. You really need to built a relationship with the counselor who can figure out the various dynamics and help you all work on a plan.

[Chris in VA]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

sending a whole row of hugs because I know how hard mental illness can be, along with behaviour crud.

 

I would get into family therapy ASAP. All of you need it.

You can't leave her in the family environment and expect her to change. She does not get to be the problem, you all have to change in order for there to be a healthy family. I know that is hard to hear, but I've BTDT.

Kudos for wanting to change NOW.

 

Her depression, regardless of whether or not it is from her meds or her brain chemistry and circumstances, is REAL. It has to be dealt with.

 

Find out what you can do for yourself, how YOU can change, while she is learning.

 

That's all I've got, except to say I'll pray for you, because I know how very heartbreaking it can be to have a kid whom you cannot reach.

[justasque]

I am hoping y'all can help me or just listen. I have no family to talk to: my mom is out of touch with reality and my MIL sees things very differently than I do. I have no IRL friends. :blush:

 

 

You didn't mention any of her friends. If you have no IRL friends (which I know is hard if you move a lot), then does she have any time to hang out with other girls her age? Do you go to any homeschool park days or other unstructured activities?

 

There's a lot going on here, and I can't speak to all of it. But I have a dd of that age, and her friends are *very* important to her. Plus she needs some "down time" to just hang out and be herself.

 

You've got a lot on your plate, but if an opportunity to hang out with other homeschoolers comes up, it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. In our area we have roller skating, park days, capture the flag, a monthly coffee house, etc. etc. It's nice to see other families, to unwind a bit, have fresh air and exercise, and to get some perspective on what we're doing well at and what we may need to look a bit closer at. We'd all go a little nuts without it.

 

Also, while public school is probably not an answer, it's not a bad age to look around for a co-op. That would get you among other people, give her activities/classes not-with-mom, and mix it up a bit. Might be worth asking around to see what is out there in your area.

 

Also - what does she need to "recharge"? Among the kids I know, some need "making things" projects, some need meaty science stuff to mull over, some need visual stimulation (texture, design, color, shapes), some need exercise, some need fresh air, and so on. Most need a bit of each. If you and dd are different sorts of people, you may not be sensitive to her need for stimulation of a particular sort. Might be useful to ask her what kinds of things she has enjoyed in the past, to get ideas for the future.

 

And I love "Raising Your Spirited Child". If it was useful in the past, you might want to pick it up again now that dd is older; different things will jump out at you and you'll get a booster shot of the stuff that has worked before.;

[Mergath]

Get rid of the computer games and chatting. Seriously. Spending too much time playing computer games can cause everything from addiction to messed up sleep patterns. My brother was perfectly normal when he was a child. Then, during his teens, he got hooked on online gaming, and became just impossible. He was apathetic, didn't care about anything but getting on the computer, and if you came between him and his games, he'd turn outright violent. He was diagnosed with ADD, and eventually dropped out of school so he could spend more time online. Today, he is 24 and lives in my mom's basement. He spends all of his time online.

 

I really do think that, a few years from now, they are going to find that spending too much time gaming in front of a screen screws up your brain to an extraordinary degree. And it's not as if I'm some luddite who can't tell you what facebook is- I used to play WoW all the time. I have a level 80 hunter. I've been on both sides of the fence, and I'm telling you, get rid of the computer games while you still have the chance. They're bad news.

[CanaryMelody]

** editing to delete personal information **

[farmgirlinwv]

No advice, but I'll be listening. :bigear: My dd is 13 yo and I fear obsessed with music. She lives for her ipod and mp3. She would rather listen to music than anything else. I can't get her to do anything else hardly. We're pretty isolated and she has no friends. She has no other interests. I really don't know how to help. I hope you find answers. :grouphug:

[Mergath]

I believe she already has an addiction. It is the first thing she thinks about and the last thing. She won't come to family meals. We have to make her sit down to eat with us. As soon as she is done, it is "can I be excused?" And she is back online. If she doesn't have access to her computer she goes from a lethargic state to downright meanness. :001_huh:

 

If she KNOWS she won't have access to the computer, she actually goes to bed at a decent hour and gets a decent amount of sleep. We see she has a serious problem. Would we go with 100% withdrawal of the computer? And what would make her earn some time back? And when?

 

I know this probably won't be popular with some, but I would say get rid of the games and chatting completely. Internet for informational purposes only. That's a harsh thing to do, but I saw what happend to my brother. I saw what his life became. They actually have inpatient treatment facilities now for computer addiction because, for many people, it really does affect the brain like a drug. I know that, when I was playing WoW, it was an addiction. When I decided to quit playing for good, it was all I could think about. I'd pace around, nervous, staring at the computer. It was horrible. Then, a few days later, it just... went away. And I haven't played again since.

 

My mom tried to take my brother's computer away when he was, oh, maybe fifteen. He screamed, tried to attack her, and hyperventilated until he vomited and passed out. He tried to kill himself. It was bad. She couldn't take anymore, so she gave in and gave the computer back, and it's something she still regrets to this day. We both think that if we would have been firm and not given it back, he would have been much better off once the withdrawl period was past.

 

I know there are people reading this and rolling their eyes, but for some people who already have a predisposition to addiction, online gaming can be nearly as destructive as drugs. It's like with drinking. Some people can drink/game a bit here and there and be fine, while for others its either all-consuming or nothing. You wouldn't let a heroin addict or an alcoholic earn back drugs or booze, and if it were my kid, I would take the games and chatting away for good.

 

At the very least, though, I'd take it away for a good month. That'll be long enough for the "withdrawl" period to pass. If her behavior improves dramatically, you can be sure the internet addiction was a bit part of the problem, and can act accordingly.

[CanaryMelody]

No advice, but I'll be listening. :bigear: My dd is 13 yo and I fear obsessed with music. She lives for her ipod and mp3. She would rather listen to music than anything else. I can't get her to do anything else hardly. We're pretty isolated and she has no friends. She has no other interests. I really don't know how to help. I hope you find answers. :grouphug:

 

My DD won't do chores unless she has her iPod. She can't even sleep unless there is that ear bud in. She doesn't know how to function without it. Literally. Not exaggerating. :001_huh:

[In2why]

I echo others who have said Family Counseling. I believe the counselor will help you determine what is behavior issues and what might be an underlying mental issue. If she has an appointment then I would tell the counselor that you want both individual counseling for her, and family counseling for all of you.

[linders]

:grouphug: Sounds like she has a combination of real disabilities and perhaps some difficult personality traits coupled with puberty's challenges.

 

I second the family counseling, but also highly encourage you to start limiting your efforts with her to focus more on the youngers. That may sound harsh, but having coming from a family where a highly disruptive sibling took all my parents' energy, I worry a bit about the rest of you.

[justamouse]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

These are rough seas and you can't navigate them alone. Get counseling. And, though I'm pretty liberal with media and entertainment, I agree with Mergath, shut her down.

 

Linders is also right, and I Know of what she speaks of by experience. My oldest has ADHD and dealing with him through his teen years took almost all of my attention, leaving nothing for the little ones.

 

This is rough. I totally get it. It strains everything around you and you even get resentful. Don't navigate this on your own. :grouphug::grouphug:

[CanaryMelody]

** editing to delete personal info **

[Terabith]

Who is she chatting with?

 

On the one hand, I think taking away computer stuff is a good idea. But the social aspect of chatting might be a huge support system for her, depending on whom it is with. I know it has been for me.

 

I would be tempted to try, not taking away the computer altogether, but to set limits. For instance, she can chat and play on the computer for these two hours, or whatever is a reasonable time period at your house. And I'd let her have some say in when that is, as long as it works with your schedule, so she could coordinate with her online friends. The not knowing when she can have it back creates uncertainty and anxiety. You want to have a clear answer, so she can relax, knowing WHEN she can go on again. If she knows when she can go on, she could focus on other things until then.

 

However, if her online friends are a bad influence, then my advice would change.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Terabith

[CanaryMelody]

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[Mergath]

She hasn't gotten violent or not, but perhaps the attitude and depression may stem a lot (but entirely) from the computer as well?

 

We are doing the psychology appointment this week. Would it be better to wait until this to start computer withdrawal? We had originally planned - before I even posted for help here - on withdrawing her from the computer (all electronics?? iPod included??) starting on Monday. She knows this. Has been forewarned about this. And knows we plan on carrying this out for a solid 30 days and we'd re-evaluate the situation then. Since she knows, do we follow through? Or wait until we talk to the psychologist?

 

Based on what I saw with my brother, an ex-boyfriend, and myself, internet addiction causes a range of emotional problems, most certainly including depression and irratability. Granted, that stuff can also come with puberty, but the gaming addiction will almost certainly make it worse. Once you've seen a formerly calm, nice boy knock down a door and put his whole arm through a wall in a fit of rage over losing his computer, you realize the extent to which these games can screw with your brain.

 

I wouldn't put it off. If she is already aware you're planning to cut her off, and you delay it for the appointment, she's going to realize that there's room for discussion about the subject. And when you take that stuff away, you need to be firm. Like steel. Her reaction could be a good deal more severe than you're anticipating (my mom was in absolute shock at the way my brother reacted) and you don't want her to get the idea that either she or the situation can dictate her getting the internet back early. Addicts, no matter what they're addicted to, are expert manipulators. Don't give her anything to work with as far as trying to manipulate you into delaying or giving the stuff back.

 

And really, I can't imagine the psychologist telling you NOT to take it away. If he/she says it's probably not hurting anything, find a different therapist.

 

Hope that made sense.

[farmgirlinwv]

OP, that's exactly what my dd does! If we take away her ipod, she asks for it INCESSANTLY until she gets it back. She cries and screams and shouts "I hate you!" It's horrible. I think she may be addicted. She really freaks out when she cannot get her ipod. I'm going to seriously consider taking it away. Sigh.

[farmgirlinwv]

Mergath, how long do you think the ipod/computer should be taken away? When/how should it be re-introduced?

[CanaryMelody]

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[Impish]

I agree with taking the puter away.

[Mergath]

Mergath, how long do you think the ipod/computer should be taken away? When/how should it be re-introduced?

 

I'd think it would be different with every kid. I mean, I've lived through this enough to be somewhat knowledgeable, but I'm not an expert. And, sadly, there are experts in this field now.

 

I would say at least a month as an absolute minimum for anyone. The kid needs time for the withdrawl symptoms to pass, for his/her brain to return to normal, and then to get involved with healthy people and activities so that they are more able to resist the addiction when opportunities come up later on. I mean, even if a kid is doing better after a few weeks, if they don't have anything else to do when you give the item in question back, they're just going to go right back to the addiction. If you're really excited about something else in your life, though, the computer doesn't look quite as attractive.

 

That would probably be a good question for a therapist, too. A therapist who can talk to the kid in person and assess him or her would probably be able to help you figure out how long is long enough.

[farmgirlinwv]

TY, Mergath..

[Crispa]

I see lots of good advice already!

 

One small thing I'd add is to avoid talking too much, at her age, about exactly how she's going to support herself in the future, what she's going to be when she grows up, etc. That's just way too "out there" and inconceivable for 12 years old. At her age, she should be dreaming big -- dreaming of climbing mountains, maybe, or exploring jungles, or being a rock star or a groovy Bohemian artist, or joining the Peace Corps in Africa (a crazy-dreaming, no-account friend of mine did that and ended up with a master's degree in medical services), or finding the Loch Ness monster! Never mind "how" -- she's got years to figure that out, and to change her mind multiple times along the way. For now, encourage the crazy dreams, revel in them, say "that is SUCH a COOL idea!"

[Mergath]

TY, Mergath..

 

No problem. Hope my advice was at least somewhat helpful for you guys. I've got to run- I'm at the laundromat and if I stay much longer my dh will probably file a missing person's report, plus I have to pee so badly I'm scared to stand up, lol. But anyway, if any of you want to chat further about this, do pm me. It's a tough thing to deal with alone. :grouphug:

[lakotajm]

:grouphug:My heart is with you!

 

I would agree with the others about taking the electronics away totally and immediately. And I would leave the date up to "when the therapist, your Dad and I and you, together, can agree that the addiction has been resolved." Specific dates are great, and all, but I think that is more appropriate for a grounding situation with a less troubled youngster.

And I think it may actually be necessary to completely close your internet acount for awhile, so there is not even the possibility. That means you have to go to the library, probably, unless you have a smartphone. But that way no one else can use it around her (how mean is that!) and if she does use it for school, it is at the library, where they have filters in place, and usually also time limits.

 

I recently read a book I saw reviewed highly but can't think of the name. It is the one about making the parents more important than peers. Someone help me out here? She obviously does not sound peer dependent-except for the chatting. But she seems immersed in the peer/computer culture-the book speaks more to that and its deleterious effects. It also gives some good ideas for family-centric cures. One is the secluded-with-a-parent type vacation-with no electronics available. Kinda like rehab. Think On Golden Pond. An interesting book about young people and the computer age is Alone Together.

 

I would also suggest community service and church youth group mission projects (provided the youth are decent.) It might help with the ego-centrism.

 

As an aside, there is a CD-ROM game my kids like (including the dd14) that is horse related but no online component and you only compete against yourself-Bella Sara. Try that as a starter when she gets over her electronics rehab period.

 

The whole family may have to go old-style for awhile. You may want to point out that your husband and you decided it would be good for saving money, then decide together, as a family, what you'll spend the saved money on (I would suggest limiting the choices-a vacation, or a horse if you live in the country! No new electronics!)

 

Do bear in mind the hormonal possibility-has she started menstruating?

 

Lakota

[ChrisB]

:grouphug:My heart is with you!

I recently read a book I saw reviewed highly but can't think of the name. It is the one about making the parents more important than peers. Someone help me out here?

 

Lakota

Hold On To Your Kids?

[catz]

Mergath, how long do you think the ipod/computer should be taken away? When/how should it be re-introduced?

 

As a parent of a technology loving 10 year old, I TOTALLY agree you should shut her down. Maybe 30 days off? Maybe she needs more detox to get on track with the school work, etc. Great to talk to a therapist about that. I do this with my oldest when I see the need or am seeing behavioral issues. From day 1 with this kid we have used a timer. At age 10, he gets 30 minutes a day of recreational computer/Wii/technology of his choosing. Anything beyond that must be educational. If he violates this policy, he loses his technology privileges for several days to a week or more depending on circumstances.

 

For us, we can't shut down tech totally. Both my husband and I have software engineering backgrounds and are quite computer dependent. But it has served us well to give strict limits on it with our oldest (my 6 year old is not that interested in it). Anyway - when/if you do allow computer usage for recreational purposes, the use of a timer has been huge over here.

[CanaryMelody]

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[Terabith]

I don't know if this is at all the right answer, but I would consider considering (Is that even a phrase?) public school. I mean, girl drama is icky, but a certain amount of it is normal, and possibly even healthy, in that it teaches kids how to navigate real world relationships. While there is certainly not as much girl drama as there was in junior high, it still exists, although the form has morphed a bit.

 

The advantages that I see public school could provide would be: 1) allowing you to have extended time with the younger children, to focus on them, 2) taking you out of the role of teacher and allowing you to be just mom to her. She would have accountability to other adults, and it removes an aspect of stress from your relationship. 3) It would force her into a certain amount of social interaction. It would simply be part of the day, rather than an activity that she has to pursue. It might help replace the online relationships that she has. 4) She would have some other adult role models. 5) Being away from the computer (as in, not in the same room with it) might help ease the detox.

[Trish]

If the computer addiction is a bad thing, then why allow it in limited quantities? It's easier to not do something at all, than to try to obey limits, when you're an addict.

[justamouse]

 

If you was to do anything different with your ADHD son during the teen years, what would it have been?

 

Heh. You have an afternoon? I guess the biggest thing would be to find a counselor that my Ds didn't manipulate. We could have worked on the rest from there. Meds are hard because mine reacted like yours, so the prescription was as bad as the disease.

 

Counseling through the whole of it, and making sure that the Dr was not being schmoozed and we were all actively engaged in therapy. Even the little ones because there can be resentments as to why the universe spins around child #___.

 

You read and read and read all the ADD books just seem so -just above reach. Until you are going through that aspect and you go AH! NOW I get it. It's nuanced.

 

Consequences, and deliver them without emotion. When you pay a bill late, you will get a fine and the company doesn't care about why you can't pay, how you didn't ahve a stamp, how you twisted your ankle on the way to the post office, how the hamster crawled down your sleeve and it fell and then the dog caught it and instead of making it to the post office you had to go to the vet. Immediate consequences to actions. These kids need to have it hammered into them that everything they do has a consequence-good and bad. They think that their actions happen in vacuums.

 

Big things to deal with are respect of their own and other people's property. They act as if everything they have they are entitled to (and everyone else's stuff is theirs, too) until you break their____ and they flip out because how could you dare touch their stuff? The hypocrisy is lost on them. And yes, this is all teenagers to an extent, but it's magnified with ADD.

 

Treating other people the way you want to be treated. Teach them empathy. It's super duper hard for them to get it (this is where you can clearly see how ADD is on the Autism spectrum). Walking them through situations where they are treating people badly, how do they think it makes that person feel? How would you feel? How can you make this better, treat this person better, whathaveyou.

 

On the good side, you are getting help early. These kids are flipping smart but in ways that institutional schooling has a hard time dealing with so homeschooling can be a god send. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

You can do it.

[elegantlion]

I see lots of good advice already!

 

One small thing I'd add is to avoid talking too much, at her age, about exactly how she's going to support herself in the future, what she's going to be when she grows up, etc. That's just way too "out there" and inconceivable for 12 years old. At her age, she should be dreaming big -- dreaming of climbing mountains, maybe, or exploring jungles, or being a rock star or a groovy Bohemian artist, or joining the Peace Corps in Africa (a crazy-dreaming, no-account friend of mine did that and ended up with a master's degree in medical services), or finding the Loch Ness monster! Never mind "how" -- she's got years to figure that out, and to change her mind multiple times along the way. For now, encourage the crazy dreams, revel in them, say "that is SUCH a COOL idea!"

 

:iagree: I agree with what the others have said as well.

 

I remember 12 being sucky. My world was boring. I wanted to go explore the pyramids of Egypt and my friends were flirting with the dorky neighbor kid.

 

You may have a genius on your hands, she may be just so distraught with everything that it's manifesting into all of this.

 

No one HAS to be excited about academics. My son tolerates school.

 

I bet she sees the world differently. I could be totally off base, so simply disregard if so. She sees a big wide world where she COULD live off the land and explore the Amazon, yet HER family can't afford to take her 45 minutes to ride horses. How in the world will she ever get to live her dreams if 45 minutes away is too far? I understand your side, I couldn't afford the drive either. But from her perspective it could be devastating.

 

The internet has made the world smaller. My son plays Xbox online with his friends, I don't know them. It's just different from when we were kids.

 

I agree about detoxing from the gaming, but I would ask the counselor about cutting off contact with her only support system (her friends). That might backfire. Not saying you aren't supportive, but again trying to see this from her perspective.

 

Do you travel as a family? Has she explored the study of paleontology? Are there any archaeological digs in your area that she could observe or be involved in?

 

How about a study of myths and legends from around the world? The Loch Ness monster, Bermuda Triangle, Atlantis, things like that. You could do a whole literature, science, or history unit on these things. Those kind of things fascinated me as a child.

 

My son is 13 and still likes Pokemon. Not like he did at 10, but he just bought a new game. He decided he wanted to learn Japanese and study Japanese history. We've spent the entire year on Asian history. It's been fascinating. We started Japanese, but had to pull back and will start again next year.

 

Has she read bios on women like Dian Fossey, women in science. there are a ton more whose names escape me at the moment.

 

I would also suggest listening to SWB latest lecture on Homeschooling the Real Child. I just listened a few days ago, it's very eye opening.

[justamouse]

elegantlion is right, too, to engage her with what she is interested in.

[leeannpal]

I am going to answer you from the point of view of a person who was depressed at 13 and was the oldest child, the mother of an ADHD tween and a middle school teacher who is well acquainted with 12-13 year olds.

 

First, I do not want to imply that you have been doing anything wrong. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate-teaching, younger kids to raise, a husband and a home to take care of. You probably need some more "me" time yourself. I would suggest that you spend a bit of truly one-on-one time with your DD. Get away for a "girls" weekend or have your husband take the other kids somewhere for a night. When I was 13, I would have loved to have that special attention. Being the oldest sucks sometimes. Parents tend to forget that their oldest is still a child too. We sometimes put too much pressure on the oldest to "grow up" so that we can give the time to the youngers who need us. As a middle school teacher for many years, I truly believe that kids this age need mom and dad more than ever! The changes in their worlds are truly frightening, and many do not have the ability to explain how they are feeling without angry outbursts.

 

As the mom of an ADHD kid on medication, I would get her to a doctor/psychiatrist as soon as possible to check her medication. Some of the side effects can be really scary! We had to change DD's medicine earlier this year because she was having anger outbursts. We have since found a medication and a dosage that works for her.

 

I will definitely be sending good thoughts and prayer your way. Raising kids is so tough!

[farmgirlinwv]

This is how I'm leaning...no electronics for 30days, then strict limits...I don't know where you are, but if you hear screaming...just ignore it!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know this probably won't be popular with some, but I would say get rid of the games and chatting completely. Internet for informational purposes only. That's a harsh thing to do, but I saw what happend to my brother. I saw what his life became. They actually have inpatient treatment facilities now for computer addiction because, for many people, it really does affect the brain like a drug. I know that, when I was playing WoW, it was an addiction. When I decided to quit playing for good, it was all I could think about. I'd pace around, nervous, staring at the computer. It was horrible. Then, a few days later, it just... went away. And I haven't played again since.

 

My mom tried to take my brother's computer away when he was, oh, maybe fifteen. He screamed, tried to attack her, and hyperventilated until he vomited and passed out. He tried to kill himself. It was bad. She couldn't take anymore, so she gave in and gave the computer back, and it's something she still regrets to this day. We both think that if we would have been firm and not given it back, he would have been much better off once the withdrawl period was past.

 

I know there are people reading this and rolling their eyes, but for some people who already have a predisposition to addiction, online gaming can be nearly as destructive as drugs. It's like with drinking. Some people can drink/game a bit here and there and be fine, while for others its either all-consuming or nothing. You wouldn't let a heroin addict or an alcoholic earn back drugs or booze, and if it were my kid, I would take the games and chatting away for good.

 

At the very least, though, I'd take it away for a good month. That'll be long enough for the "withdrawl" period to pass. If her behavior improves dramatically, you can be sure the internet addiction was a bit part of the problem, and can act accordingly.

 

My ds has a computer addiction. It changes his brain chemistry - dopamine levels particularly. Take away the computer entirely. Eventually after a few months she can use it for word processing only for school. NO gaming. My ds13 was off of games for 6 months. Within 1 week of being allowed back on he was showing all the signs of addiction again. Now he is off until he is 18. I hope that his brain will have matured enough to be able to handle some moderate activity with gaming but don't know if he will be able to ever.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If the computer addiction is a bad thing, then why allow it in limited quantities? It's easier to not do something at all, than to try to obey limits, when you're an addict.

 

Because an addict cannot handle it even in limited quantities. Really. I tried that and ds started to lie, steal and cheat to be able to increase the amount he was on. He's an addict. This isn't a self control issue. This is a brain issue.

[CanaryMelody]

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[Jean in Newcastle]

Did you eliminate all electronics or just the computer? TV too? iPod, DSi, etc? I can see though how a true addiction... well you just can't go back to normal usage. Like an alcoholic. Gives me more to think on.

 

We eliminated all computer and electronic type games. For ds - it is something triggered by role playing games especially. But of course those games are more fun to a young man than something like computer solitaire! TV and the iPod has not been a problem for him. He likes to watch the t.v. but is fine with our normal family limits. He doesn't have a t.v. in his room, though. He loves to listen to music too but has no problem setting it aside to interact with us etc.

 

This is a simple FAQ on computer addiction: http://www.icaservices.com/faqs.htm

[Kalmia]

I'd speak to her doctor about an alternative to Adderall. A family I am close to was almost destroyed by the husband's reaction to "coming down" at night from the Adderall he took to function well at work during the day. His wife could see the change in personality come across his face every day at about the same time.

 

It wasn't until another person--who had had the same problem with Adderall--observed the husband's personality swings while visiting their house and spoke up, that the wife figured out that this was the cause. Prior to this the wife was beginning the divorce process to escape from her husband's belligerence. The husband went off Adderall and all the mood swings dissappeared. He returned to being the even-keeled man she had married. Their marriage and family were saved.

 

There are other medications. It is worth trying to find out if Adderall is a contributing cause in your dd's case.

[lakotajm]

Hold On To Your Kids?

Yes, that's the one.

Lakota

[TheTwinsMom1]

Have you looked into bipolar? Alot of what you experience is exactly what my two bipolar children do all the time. WE were originally diagnosed with ADHD but as they have gotten older we realized it was really bipolar. Stimulants like adderall can make this type of behavior much much worse in kids who are actually bipolar and not ADHD.

 

I suggest reading a book called the bipolar child. It literally described my child in full detail. It was eye opening. When people think of bipolar they think of what it is is adults, and in kids its a whole different animal.

[StephanieZ]

Your dd sounds like she is unhappy and in pain. I don't think punishment is the key.

 

Most girls are hard at that age. Mine was, although pretty mild in comparison. But moodiness, self-centeredness, impatience with sibs and parents. . . those are classic 12 yo girl things. Fun, huh?

 

It lasted a year-18 mos or so for my dd, and seemed to take a dramatic turn for the better around the time she began her period. I'm thinking that her hormones have stabilized and/or she is accustomed to them now. :)

 

When I was that age, I was a monster. My mom bought me a horse. It worked. :) I can't afford a horse for my kids, but I do try to just extend grace as much as humanly possible. A friend made a *really* good point one day when our dds were that age. . . she told me she'd had an epiphany that she should talk to her dd the way she would talk to a friend. . . as in kindly, politely, gently. . . and that it made a sudden and huge improvement with her relationship with her dd. I have a lot of difficulty being that patient with my kids. . . I have three, she has just the one. . . And I tend towards bossiness & crowd control much of the time. . . But, I did try to think about that and use the idea as often as I could. Everytime I tried it, it really made a big difference.

 

This weekend I am chaperoning my dd14, her BFF14, and a third (older teen) girl at a Youth in Gov't thing at a nice hotel. . . (They're in their own room!! They have the run of the hotel/pool/etc in the evenings. . .and get themselves up, dressed, etc in the morning!)

 

Anyway, tonight I took my dd & her bff to dinner at a nicer restaurant (well, Olive Garden, but that's a big step up from Wendy's LOL). . . I felt myself get irritated (over and over) at BFF & my dd b/c they were playing Tetris on BFF's cell phone for the entire 45-50 min wait at the door, plus at the table. . .

 

I SOOOO wanted to lecture them on being nice dinner companions. . . (I'm a big lecturer. . .) And, if they were younger, I would have. But, I teased them a bit, then I just smiled, pulled out my book, read to myself, and reminded myself that there are only a few more years with her at home. . . and very soon she'll have wheels of her own, and she already had money of her own (well paying jobs). . . and she won't NEED to hang with Mom at dinner or anywhere else. She will have to WANT to. . . and so I have to remind myself that the gears are changing from Child to Adult, and so I have to gradually shift those gears myself, and I want to get ahead of the curve. . . because if I realize it too late, I'll have already run her off. . . and I don't want to do that. I love her, enjoy her, and can let some of the littler stuff go (. . . especially when her friends are involved, as I adore her BFF and don't want to run her off either.) Just a thought. . .

 

((hugs)) Hang in there. Take care of *yourself* as well, getting some alone time doing yoga, solo walks, lunch with a girl friend. . . those things keep me sane when the preteen/teen thing is *just too much* to bear.

[justamouse]

Heh. This I am not good at. I need to be. I remember when we went to counseling before. She said we as parents need to water to her fire-y emotions. Only problem is I am like fire when I am upset. I have a very difficult time "being water" and not getting emotional. I need to work on this so much more!

 

Pfft, I completely suck at it. And he makes me mad for *days*. So, don't think that it's just you.

 

To be quite honest I think I have done much wrong... I spoiled her way too much when she was younger (guilty single mom syndrome), DH and I have never been good at consistent discipline, and I personally get way too emotional when dealing with her myself when she probably needs the exact opposite... a calm, in-control mom. Unfortunately my oldest who needs it the most is also the guinea pig. I'm not making the same mistakes with the younger three.

 

 

 

This was me, exactly. The kid that needed the best parent was the first, and I parented him the worst. I had no freakin clue what I was doing, and could have written that paragraph of yours myself. I still beat myself up.

 

BUT, mine is now 20, and he is still making sucktacular decisions but I know this-I taught him right from wrong. He may have character issues, but he knows right from wrong and what he does now is on him.

 

One more thing. It's so easy to dwell on what's wrong. It's easy to get sucked into a morass of negativity. Start a habit of thinking at least one good thought about this kid a day. It's so hard to do when the day has been yelling from the time they opened their eyes to the time they closed them. There is good and there is brilliance in them. Make a list so you can remind yourself. Keep a list of accomplishments, and when you have a bad day, pull those lists out. :grouphug:

 

eta: I really wish they knew then what they know now about the adderall because the rage describes my ds 20 to a t when he was on it. And then they gave him mood stabilizers to balance that out, then the sleeping meds because he couldn't sleep. Freaking nightmare.

Edited April 17, 2011 by justamouse

[texasmama]

With a kid who is having suicidal thoughts or thoughts of self-harm, you need to get to a good therapist ASAP. Depression can exhibit itself as irritability in kids and adolescents.

 

My oldest went through a phase like this at about this age. It was horrible. I reached the end of what I could do for her and took her to therapy. At almost 16, she is at a much better place.:grouphug:

[Terabith]

Actually, I am sort of wondering if she is addicted to the computer. I'm hearing bad behavior, and I'm hearing depression, but why do you think she is addicted? It seems like this has been the assumption, but I didn't see that in the OP.

 

If she is in fact addicted, then the counselor can help with that. And maybe she will need to not have access to a computer.

 

Addiction is certainly a possibility, but so is bored, snotty, depressed ADD teen who goes and hangs out online as her default activity. (And really, going online is sort of my default activity, when nothing is going on for me.) I just hesitate to cut her off from her support network without a better grasp on the situation.

 

Or am I missing something? It seemed like the OP started with bad behavior but fairly quickly moved to internet addiction, based on other poster's experiences.

[texasmama]

In a sense, it doesn't matter if she is "addicted" to the internet or not. What she is doing right now isn't working well for her so it makes sense to shake it up. IMHO, having a depressed, isolated 12 year old girl spending a lot of time online with other teen girls is not a good way to get her to be a very functional person. It isn't working well for her so it goes away. That is really all that matters at this point.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Actually, I am sort of wondering if she is addicted to the computer. I'm hearing bad behavior, and I'm hearing depression, but why do you think she is addicted? It seems like this has been the assumption, but I didn't see that in the OP.

 

If she is in fact addicted, then the counselor can help with that. And maybe she will need to not have access to a computer.

 

Addiction is certainly a possibility, but so is bored, snotty, depressed ADD teen who goes and hangs out online as her default activity. (And really, going online is sort of my default activity, when nothing is going on for me.) I just hesitate to cut her off from her support network without a better grasp on the situation.

 

Or am I missing something? It seemed like the OP started with bad behavior but fairly quickly moved to internet addiction, based on other poster's experiences.

 

The OP said that the girl had no interest in anything other than computer games. She also said that this is the "first thing she thinks of and the last". And that if she doesn't have access to it, she is lethargic and mean but has better sleep habits without it.