When what you see doesn't match what you hear

[justamouse]

I know spousal abuse happens at all income and educational levels. I'm having a hard time reconciling what I have heard 10 feet from me, and what I am 'shown' to believe.

 

The woman is a practicing lawyer, kept her maiden name, in all ways seems to be a card carrying feminist.

 

What I have heard is plates crashing, screams and slamming.

 

And I can't wrap my mind around why she doesn't leave? I know why *I* didn't leave (No $), but for her it seems like leaving would be as easy as freezing the accounts and putting the key in the ignition.

 

I don't know what to do or say.

 

What should I do or say?

Edited April 10, 2011 by justamouse
you can't put a key in the engine

[Mejane]

hmmm... that's a tough one. It doesn't sound as though she is "stuck" financially, so maybe she is stuck emotionally and not ready to move on? In that case, there's not much you can do. I might just say, "If you ever want to talk, I'm here."

[OrganicAnn]

I know it is unlikely, but maybe she is doing the plate crashing, yelling and such.

[Just Robyn]

I know it is unlikely, but maybe she is doing the plate crashing, yelling and such.

 

or both of them equally.

[kalanamak]

Maybe she is throwing the plates.

 

Try knocking on the wall. Sobers some people up. I use to live under a woman and her son. Her husband did not live there, nor did one of the twins, who was, I was told, being raised to be a priest (he was about 11) at some live in school. When hubby visited, it got very ugly. I had a nice landlord, and I would call him when it started and he would call her to "chat" about how her heat was going, or her hot water, or the roof, and hubby would shut up the moment the phone rang (I could hear it all). He'd cool down while she was on the phone. Perhaps she never knew it, but we conspired to help her.

[MeganW]

I would wait until one day when her spouse isn't home, and try to talk to her about it. I would start by telling of your personal experience, then tell her that it sounds like she might be in a similar situation, and tell her that if she ever wants to talk about it or needs help, you would be there for her.

[gardening momma]

I know it is unlikely, but maybe she is doing the plate crashing, yelling and such.

I was thinking this, but not that it's unlikely. I have had times when I have wanted to throw a plate across the room, but didn't because not only do we not have money to replace the plates, but I'd be the one cleaning it up. :D

[justamouse]

I know it is unlikely, but maybe she is doing the plate crashing, yelling and such.

 

I did think that at first, but the time I got really close to it, it was him.

 

Our houses are pretty close. If I look up right now, I can look into their kitchen, perhaps they are 100 ft apart? I totally suck at estimating distances.

 

Anyway, I was reading by the pool in the evening, he drove up and as he walked in started yelling and ceramics started crashing. All I heard were mumbles in her voice.

 

I would say something--and I'm being a fraidy pants here, yes-but she seems to sue the neighbors a lot. Like her anger is leaking out that way, you know? But it's a rock in my stomach. Should I call the cops next time?

[Sputterduck]

Maybe she is throwing the plates.

 

Try knocking on the wall. Sobers some people up. I use to live under a woman and her son. Her husband did not live there, nor did one of the twins, who was, I was told, being raised to be a priest (he was about 11) at some live in school. When hubby visited, it got very ugly. I had a nice landlord, and I would call him when it started and he would call her to "chat" about how her heat was going, or her hot water, or the roof, and hubby would shut up the moment the phone rang (I could hear it all). He'd cool down while she was on the phone. Perhaps she never knew it, but we conspired to help her.

 

Thank you for doing that. I wish someone had conspired to help me. You never know how much you may have saved her from. I hope you get blessed in return a thousand times over.

[Hedgehog]

Should I call the cops next time?

 

Yes. It might give your neighbours pause for thought, at the very least.

[Sputterduck]

I did think that at first, but the time I got really close to it, it was him.

 

Our houses are pretty close. If I look up right now, I can look into their kitchen, perhaps they are 100 ft apart? I totally suck at estimating distances.

 

Anyway, I was reading by the pool in the evening, he drove up and as he walked in started yelling and ceramics started crashing. All I heard were mumbles in her voice.

 

I would say something--and I'm being a fraidy pants here, yes-but she seems to sue the neighbors a lot. Like her anger is leaking out that way, you know? But it's a rock in my stomach. Should I call the cops next time?

 

Yes, do. I was very upset when someone sent the cops to my house. But years later after I woke up and left, it was very great to have official records of my husband's violence. It helps me keep my child away from him.

 

No matter how much I hated it at the time, I will be forever grateful to whoever called the cops.

[justamouse]

OK. Next time I'll call the cops. *girds self*

[elizabeth]

Oh that is awful. Call if you hear that again, you heard it for a reason. I really believe in the principle some call synchronicity. Others may call it God whispering in your ear. In any event you are a wonderful neighbor to care deeply enough to consider the options available to you . Please intervene in the only safe way possible and ask for the assistance of the police.

[justamouse]

Oh that is awful. Call if you hear that again, you heard it for a reason. I really believe in the principle some call synchronicity. Others may call it God whispering in your ear. In any event you are a wonderful neighbor to care deeply enough to consider the options available to you . Please intervene in the only safe way possible and ask for the assistance of the police.

 

I will, I promise.

[redsquirrel]

Women stay for lots of reasons and they aren't all financial or due to lack of resources.

 

Maybe she loves him. Abusive relationships aren't abusive all the time. Very often they have times when their relationship looks like non-abusive relationships. They have fun, enjoy the kids, pick out wallpaper etc. During those times, it can be easy to push the other times to the back of one's mind.

 

Maybe she thinks it is all her fault. If only she worked a little harder it would be better. Goodness knows, she can be difficult to live with. Really, she is lucky to have him. She is getting older, and it's hard to meet someone else especially if one is a single mom. And, she's put on a little weight since the last baby. He's told her often that she is losing her looks.

 

And, truly, he is SUCH a good dad. How could she ever even think of taking the kids away from him? He would never hurt them..well, she could stop it if he got a little out of control. And they have no idea, right? right?

 

And, yeah, things can get a little out of hand sometimes, but it's so much better than what her parents had! Boy, her dad was something else. Now, she would NEVER put up with that. She doesn't know why her mom ever stayed with a man like that. She never would. She would be out the door.

 

 

Those are some of the many, many reasons women give themselves as to why they stay when they 'don't have to'.

[Mimm]

Women stay for lots of reasons and they aren't all financial or due to lack of resources.

 

Maybe she loves him. Abusive relationships aren't abusive all the time. Very often they have times when their relationship looks like non-abusive relationships. They have fun, enjoy the kids, pick out wallpaper etc. During those times, it can be easy to push the other times to the back of one's mind.

 

 

 

I read something a woman who had been in a very abusive relationship wrote that pretty much said this. She said if you are being hit once a month, that's a lot. But it's 29 days a month that you aren't getting hit. Where he's kind and loving and fun to be around. From the outside, it's easy to say, "But you're getting hit EVERY month! That's horrible!" But when you're in the middle of the situation, it looks like you're throwing out a lot of good for just a little bad.

[virtual_twins_mom]

Yes. It might give your neighbours pause for thought, at the very least.

:iagree: Hopefully there are no kids involved. If so, call Children's Services.

[Margo out of lurking]

And I can't wrap my mind around why she doesn't leave?

 

Because it's about emotions. A family member is a black belt, owns her own studio, married an abuser and waited several years before leaving.:confused:

[Chris in VA]

She may be so used to the cycle now that it doesn't raise the same alarm as it might have had it started full force at the beginning.

 

Bless you for caring.

[pbt1294]

I don't know if she has kids, but if she does, call the police x 10!!!!

 

I'm a child from one of those homes where BOTH of my parents acted like idiots! I have forgiven them, but still deal with anxiety issues that I know stem from emotional stress as a child.

 

God has graciously given me a WONDERFUL stable home now. My kiddos do fight sometimes like all normal kids, but I remind them that I don't like yelling, screaming, hitting and such. I had to deal with it as a child and I don't want to deal with it now.

 

I can't imagine my kids having to live like I did. Although I was fed, clothed and never physically abused I lived in constant fear that my mother or father might kill us all. That isn't right and a child is powerless to do anything about it. People just dismiss the child like they don't know what is going on so they will be okay. It makes me sick!!!

[Joanne]

I know spousal abuse happens at all income and educational levels. I'm having a hard time reconciling what I have heard 10 feet from me, and what I am 'shown' to believe.

 

The woman is a practicing lawyer, kept her maiden name, in all ways seems to be a card carrying feminist.

 

What I have heard is plates crashing, screams and slamming.

 

And I can't wrap my mind around why she doesn't leave? I know why *I* didn't leave (No $), but for her it seems like leaving would be as easy as freezing the accounts and putting the key in the ignition.

 

I don't know what to do or say.

 

What should I do or say?

 

I had 2 college degrees, taught parenting classes, was sought after for providing care, nurture and tutoring for other people's children. I was both a Deacon and Elder at church (so was he).

 

I stayed for 14 years. From personal experience and now training, I can tell you exactly why she stays, if you'd like to know.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I didn't read all the responses, but perhaps she grew up in a home like this and to her it is normal.

 

:iagree: My friend grew up in a home where her dad abused her mom, so when her husband started abusing her (on their honeymoon!), she thought it was normal. When she was in the process of getting out, she asked me if my husband ever hit me. I told her absolutely not and she said, "Well then, how do you fight?"

[Nestof3]

I know it is unlikely, but maybe she is doing the plate crashing, yelling and such.

 

I was the plate-thrower early in our marriage. My husband has never thrown anything. I am also quite certain I did more of the yelling. Do you know that it's not the woman's doing?

[justamouse]

I had 2 college degrees, taught parenting classes, was sought after for providing care, nurture and tutoring for other people's children. I was both a Deacon and Elder at church (so was he).

 

I stayed for 14 years. From personal experience and now training, I can tell you exactly why she stays, if you'd like to know.

 

Yes, please.

 

And, thankfully their kids are grown and out of the house--they are grandparents, which makes my head spin more. I mean how long?

 

By hearing her ...murmur--it was more like a dog whine, you know that plead? --I know it's not her. The plate throwing was the punctuation on his screaming.

[lionfamily1999]

I haven't read the replies yet, but...

 

It's possible that you aren't hearing the whole story. Women can be as violent as men. It could be that between the two of them they are both screaming and breaking things, it could be that's how they argue. It could also be that SHE is the breaking everything while he screams and she uses her low but deadly tone.

 

The few times dh and I have really gotten into it no one would have heard what I said, because the angrier I get the lower the tone of my voice goes.

[lionfamily1999]

I did think that at first, but the time I got really close to it, it was him.

 

Our houses are pretty close. If I look up right now, I can look into their kitchen, perhaps they are 100 ft apart? I totally suck at estimating distances.

 

Anyway, I was reading by the pool in the evening, he drove up and as he walked in started yelling and ceramics started crashing. All I heard were mumbles in her voice.

 

I would say something--and I'm being a fraidy pants here, yes-but she seems to sue the neighbors a lot. Like her anger is leaking out that way, you know? But it's a rock in my stomach. Should I call the cops next time?

Bolded, like I already said, when I get angry my tone goes low.

 

Definitely call the cops next time. Even if they're both fighting and this is just "their style" they should how it appears to those around them. If you're right, then you've saved her. If you're wrong, then you've given them a head's up about how loud their arguing is.

 

Win win :D

[Mejane]

I agree if you suspect abuse, you should call the police. As an aside, though, I'm a door-slammer and thrower from way back. It's not abuse if you're not throwing something at someone. It's just a really poor coping mechanism for letting off steam. Let the police decide, though. That's their job.

[Joanne]

Yes, please.

 

And, thankfully their kids are grown and out of the house--they are grandparents, which makes my head spin more. I mean how long?

 

By hearing her ...murmur--it was more like a dog whine, you know that plead? --I know it's not her. The plate throwing was the punctuation on his screaming.

 

I was getting ready to write something, and came across this page:

 

http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page5.htm

 

Here's the deal. I used to ask, rhetorically, "how could a smart woman stay"? The thing is, I was that woman!

 

In my case, the abuse was not physical but the cycle/progression is the same. Most issues of physical abuse begin with verbal/emotional. And it is usually "just over" the line of acceptable. Enough to make the woman stop and think .........hm (statistically, it is usually a woman victim for this crime. Yes, women can and do abuse but not in near the same numbers).

 

The first incident is usually reacted to with an either blame of the victim (crazy making) or an apology. I remember clearly the first incident with my xh. I was stunned. It was so.....odd. I remember thinking, soon after, that it could not have been "that bad" or I would have left immediately (I was a smart, educated woman after all). So, we made up. The first incident then became "normalized". Therefore, in the dynamic of our relationship, events at that level were normal. The next incident was just over the new line, and the cycle continues.

 

Remember, I was (at the time) a strident feminist. I was not weak, I did not have low self esteem.

 

A few weeks (months?) ago, I posted the following list of subtle abuse:

 

Destructive criticism/verbal abuse: name calling, mocking; accusing; blaming; swearing; making humiliating remarks or gestures

 

 

Abusing authority: always claming to be right (insisting statements to be the “truthâ€); telling you what to do; making big decisions without consultation; using “logicâ€

 

 

Disrespect: interrupting; changing topics; not listening or responding; twisting your words; putting you down in front of others; saying bad things about your friends and family

 

 

Abusing trust: lying, withholding information; cheating on you; being overly jealous

 

 

Emotional withholding: Not expressing feelings; not giving support; attention or compliments; not respecting feelings, rights, or opinions

 

 

Breaking promises: Not following through on agreements, not taking fair share of responsibility; refusing to help with child care or housework

 

 

Minimizing, denying, and blaming: Making light of disturbing behavior and not taking you concerns about it seriously; saying the abuse didn’t happen, shifting responsibility for abusive behavior, saying you caused it.

 

Pressure tactics: rushing to make decisions through “guilt trippingâ€: sulking; threatening to withhold money; manipulating the children; bossing you around

 

 

Intimidation: Making angry or threatening gestures; use of physical size to intimidate; standing in doorway during arguments (as if to block the way out); outshouting you, driving recklessly (to scare the partner, even put her in fear for her life)

 

Destruction: destroying your possessions, throwing and/or breaking things

 

Threats: making threats to hurt you or others

 

Habitually disparaging the partner’s views, beliefs, ideas, opinions. (such as “You can’t possibly think that.†Or “You know nothing about the subject.†Or “You’re mistaken.†(which ends up with other people figuring that he’s right, I’m clueless and stop listening to me)

 

Making mean statements, and then resisting taking responsibility for these by either denying or contradicting what he just said or “Not remembering†what he said, even if it was only 30 seconds earlier. (Mental whiplash), on the other hand, the abusive partner can simply drop the conversation by not bothering to answer me when I address him. (Passive aggressive way of saying “I don’t think what you said merits any feedback, so I’ll make that remark go away.â€) if partner confronts him, he’ll say “Oh, I didn’t hear you†or “I didn’t understand you.†Leaving her wondering what happened.

 

Flip flopping arguments, positions, etc.

 

Cutting off.

 

Gaslighting= slowly making one wonder if she is sane by systematically hiding or taking away her things and telling the person that she misplaced them.

 

Nasty quarrels- He deals with his self-loathing by projecting his intolerance about himself onto her, by externalizing bad stuff and mercilessly attacks in her that so that he doesn’t take responsibility for his own flaws. He then denounces her for her failings (which are really HIS failings) in ways to prod her into striking out at him and then when the scenario plays out- AHA! You started it!

 

A poster responded with "it is amazing what constitutes abuse nowadays". That poster has had the above normalized in their lives. After a long time of this normalization, standards of behavior get skewed. It takes more - sometimes outrageously more - for the victim to see something as outrageous.

 

Religion can be a factor. Persons in a patriarchal culture (conservative Christian, Islam, etc) tend to give more authority and power to the male in the relationship, granting more trust - and in the case of abuse, cultivating fear.

 

"Not believing in divorce" can be a factor.

 

Distrust of the system or of mental health professionals is often a factor.

 

Many women under-react because they feel "they have issues" as well. This is especially true of religious cultures in which "sin" is a mind-set. "Well, I sin, too......."

 

Often, deliberately acting in ways to provoke the anger is part of the symptoms of the victim. When she realizes that she is "asking for it", she stops feeling she deserves protection.

 

Family of origin. If you were raised in a home that was physically abusive, and your current home is not, it is quite possible that because your current setting does not include getting hit, the tone and culture (which seems improved) is considered acceptable.

 

The fact that the abuse won't stop is another part of the cycle. In my case, for example, the abuse continued through the court system and in co-parenting.

 

See the following:

 

 

http://cmhc.utexas.edu/pdf/PowerControlwheel.pdf

 

Leaving the dynamic, or telling the abuser you are thinking of it puts you at greater risk. When I told my therapist that I was leaving, she gave me her personal cell, and the number to 3 nearby shelters. I wasn't aware, yet, at the depth of what I had gone through and I thought she was over reacting. She wasn't.

 

When I finally *really* understood, I went back to her and asked, quite sincerely, "Why didn't you tell me I was being abuse".

 

She said:

 

"Joanne, I did".

[lmkzbcb]

She is a lawyer. Has she been practicing for a long time in the area? If so, she may have connections within the police department. Phone calls are recorded, police have caller ID too. If you are going to call, block caller ID. I think it is *67, check on that though. And I am not even sure if that works when calling the police. To be ultra careful, call from a pay phone. Do not tell them you live nearby. If you live in a neighborhood with lots of pedestrians, you could say you were walking by.

If she is the type to sue her neighbors, you need to be careful. She may not be aware she is being abused and could find the "help" to be meddling in her business. Are you new to that neighborhood? Is it an entrenched neighborhood? Will it be obvious that since you are the "new kid on the block", that you are the one who called?

Not only is she a concern, but her dh as well. Is he vindictive?

 

Point is be very very careful. Cover your tracks. Sound overly suspicious? Sound almost paranoid?

Ask any woman who has had to flee for her life, if her neighbors were in danger of their lives if they helped her.

[lionfamily1999]

I agree if you suspect abuse, you should call the police. As an aside, though, I'm a door-slammer and thrower from way back. It's not abuse if you're not throwing something at someone. It's just a really poor coping mechanism for letting off steam. Let the police decide, though. That's their job.

:iagree: and I agree with what you said about throwing too :)

[justamouse]

Leaving the dynamic, or telling the abuser you are thinking of it puts you at greater risk. When I told my therapist that I was leaving, she gave me her personal cell, and the number to 3 nearby shelters. I wasn't aware, yet, at the depth of what I had gone through and I thought she was over reacting. She wasn't.

 

When I finally *really* understood, I went back to her and asked, quite sincerely, "Why didn't you tell me I was being abuse".

 

She said:

 

"Joanne, I did".

 

I can see this. OK, this makes more sense now.

 

Not only is she a concern, but her dh as well. Is he vindictive?

 

Point is be very very careful. Cover your tracks. Sound overly suspicious? Sound almost paranoid?

Ask any woman who has had to flee for her life, if her neighbors were in danger of their lives if they helped her.

 

I don't know, but I'll head your warnings.

[kalanamak]

Ask any woman who has had to flee for her life, if her neighbors were in danger of their lives if they helped her.

 

"I'll kill any man I see you with, and I'll kill anyone who helps you escape." It was 30 years ago, but oh, how I remember those words.

[Susan in TN]

OK. Next time I'll call the cops. *girds self*

 

Dh and I did this when we lived in an apartment. Crashing plates, screaming, and thuds. Not easy, but technically, they *were* disturbing the peace.

 

If you have an opportunity, maybe you could invite her over for coffee sometime and just be a friend? Or ask her advice for a household project, decorating, or help with a garden project? I'm guessing she feels pretty isolated?

[Caitilin]

"I'll kill any man I see you with, and I'll kill anyone who helps you escape." It was 30 years ago, but oh, how I remember those words.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[unsinkable]

Ah, the dad wants the mom to cut the son's hair shorter so that means the dad is abusive thread...

 

I was going to give my opinion but it sounds like you have enough expert advice to go on.

[Alicia64]

I would say something--and I'm being a fraidy pants here, yes-but she seems to sue the neighbors a lot. Like her anger is leaking out that way, you know? But it's a rock in my stomach. Should I call the cops next time?

 

Um, that's not "fraidy pants" in the least. Sue happy people are very dangerous and she's a lawyer on top of it.

 

Don't quote me, but I think if you call the cops you can tell them that the call must stay anonymous. (I think that's a better plan then trying to talk with someone you know has sued neighbors.)

 

Alley

[Kim in Appalachia]

It was the wife/mother who screamed, threw pots/pans/dishes, and slammed doors. Their house was over 400 ft from ours, but I would hear her outbursts when I was in bed at night. Her behavior was like that towards her dh and children. But, her husband loved her dearly. He was a patient man.:001_smile:, and her children loved her. She died over 12 years ago, but I remember how much her children morned, and how fondly they remembered her. She had a nasty temper, but she never hit them or physically hurt them, and honestly they knew how to tune her out. They were a strong family, and I believe all of the children are doing well. I'm not excusing her behavior. She had problems, serious anger issues, but her dh and children learned to look past it.

 

It happens. Sometimes because you love the person you learn to deal with it and work with it. Now if there is abuse (meaning physical, or the behavior is emotionally destroying you) you need to get out. But some people can handle it. They can ignore it and not let it *completely* affect them.

 

I could not handle it, but aside from my neighbor I've know a few others how have/are handling it. These are strong people, who do not let the other's anger change them or scare them.

 

I also have known couples who are both like that. They both scream and throw and yell. I think people like that need to grow up, but sometimes, some people need longer to grow up than others.

[mcconnellboys]

Is SHE screaming and throwing plates because she's having a temper tantrum? Or is her spouse screaming and throwing plates AT her? Those are two very different things....

[mcconnellboys]

Okay, I missed this. So you can definitely tell that it is the man screaming?

[mcconnellboys]

Ugh. If she's suing other neighbors, I'm not sure that I'd get involved.... I'm wondering if he's yelling AT her, or just yelling about work (blowing off steam) and she's supportive of allowing him to throw things (which seems a bit much, to me)....

[justamouse]

Is SHE screaming and throwing plates because she's having a temper tantrum? Or is her spouse screaming and throwing plates AT her? Those are two very different things....

 

I think it's him throwing things at her.

 

When we first moved in last summer I remember a few screams, but we were new-I didn't know *what* to think. Once she screamed ...it was like she heard someone she loved had died, THAT scream. Then there was this past time.

 

This isn't an anger vent, this is abuse.

Edited April 12, 2011 by justamouse

[mcconnellboys]

Oh. Dear. I wonder if you might obtain some information regarding abuse and just tuck it into her mailbox (does she get home before him)? Or perhaps call an abuse center and tell them about this and ask what they'd suggest. And I'd make sure to tell them that she is lawsuit happy, too....

 

Because of the way she has treated other neighbors, I'm not sure I'd try to approach her directly; and I'd be afraid that the police would let something slip (or that she'd guess) if they were called to the scene.

 

While it would be wonderful to help her, of course, I'm not sure that she *can* be helped unless she wants to be helped.

 

We had an elderly friend who fell back into alcoholism when we were still in Baton Rouge and I called AA to try to find out how we could help him. They told me there was nothing anyone could do and nothing they would do until he hit rock bottom and asked for help, himself.... They were right, of course.

 

He ended up in an alcohol induced coma and the doctors thought he would never recover. We had to intervene and help make sure he got proper care. He did, miraculously come out of the coma and regain his senses and was moved into an assisted living community.

 

As soon as he found a buddy who drank, he went right back to drinking, cut his meal plan so he'd have more money for alcohol, then moved to a cheaper place that didn't require meals at all. They were both driving around without a license (the friend had a car, somehow; his had been taken away). We heard that they were taking out of state road trips. He was in his 80's and I don't know how old the friend was - at least in his 60's or 70's.

 

Then he disappeared. We have no idea what happened to him. We've tried to look over the years, but have never found a trace.... I don't mean to bore you with this save to tell you that people put themselves into heartbreaking situations and in many cases (abuse, alcohol, drugs) we cannot save them if they are not willing to be saved....

[kalanamak]

 

We had an elderly friend who fell back into alcoholism when we were still in Baton Rouge and I called AA to try to find out how we could help him. They told me there was nothing anyone could do and nothing they would do until he hit rock bottom and asked for help, himself.... They were right, of course.

 

.

 

While this is true, there are some people who respond to interventions, so the old saw about this is not 100% true. An old friend used to be part of a pack of three guys who went into flop houses to get various (usually AA members) people's relatives in a passed out state so they could wake up to a meal and a family confrontation. Some people were helped that way. In the end, they had to want to stop, but they got a big nudge on having a chance to think it over. Seattle has a lot of flop houses.

[MariannNOVA]

Women stay for lots of reasons and they aren't all financial or due to lack of resources.

 

 

Maybe she thinks it is all her fault. If only she worked a little harder it would be better.

 

Those are some of the many, many reasons women give themselves as to why they stay when they 'don't have to'.

 

In red, THAT was my reason for staying for 16 years. It was H*LL, but I was determined to work hard enough so that it would be better.

[Joanne]

In red, THAT was my reason for staying for 16 years. It was H*LL, but I was determined to work hard enough so that it would be better.

 

:iagree: I originally sought mental health treatment with a counselor to fix "my issues"(as he pointed out, I wasn't perfect!). I figured if I fixed me, the marriage would get fixed.

 

It takes 2 to make a marriage work.

 

It only takes one to ruin it.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Many of the reviews about Revitol, on various skin care sites, appear to be overly positive. They are all on the first page of Google listings, and it’s hard to believe they weren’t produced by the makers. A scroll to the second page turns up reviews that don’t seem nearly so hyped. They are much more informally written, and are a credible mixture of positive and negative.

 

Reported:spam::spam:

[weddell]

You should call the police when you hear something next. Tell them you want to remain anonymous. I mean I doubt that they would tell the neighbors it was you who called, but I had to call the police about neighbors before and the police came to my door first to get the whole story. If they had looked out the window, they would have known it was me.

 

We had neighbors who both had mental health issues. They would scream crazy things at each other. Weird religious things. It was really strange. Unstable and abusive from both parties. After one loud fight, the police came to my door and asked if I had called the police about my neighbors. I hadn't called and I told them it wasn't me. Then they asked if I had heard the fighting and I explained how those neighbors had a lot of problems and screamed all the time. The police left and went next door. I didn't hear anything more at that time.

 

Then another relative and her two little kids moved in. I could hear the kids' mother yell at them sometimes and then one time I heard her slapping one of them over and over and over screaming "don't cry". Of course the kid is crying. It went on for a couple minutes and it didn't seem like she was going to stop. I called the police and they came to my door again. Amazingly it was the same cop who had come to my door before. Since this was about 10 minutes later, the mother had stopped, but I explained what had happened and said someone needed to go and check on them, that it was clearly beyond anything that could be described as "normal discipline". The cop basically told me that the people in that house were pretty crazy and that they would look into who the kids were and see if they were okay. The mother and kids moved out soon after and I kind of wondered if it was because the owners didn't want more attention from the police than they already had.

 

Anyway, I don't know if it is standard procedure to go to the house of the person that called (it might have been because I called 911 and not the regular police number--I wanted to make sure someone came right away since there were children involved). But in your situation I wouldn't want the neighbors to know if was me.

[ereks mom]

I have a question--sent you a PM.

[mcconnellboys]

I do watch some of the intervention programs that are on satellite TV today, so I don't mean to imply that you should never try. I'm just saying that I've been told that unless the person wants to change and comes to that decision of their own accord, then intervention (which is essentially what we did when we had our friend hospitalized and then the docs took away all his liberties) is often not successful in the long run - permanently. It may be successful for a while, however, as it was in our case.

 

I'm just afraid that this lady would never give you a chance to intervene on her behalf, but would instead sue you.... I wonder if she has any family who might be persuaded to intervene?

[mcconnellboys]

... the police came to my door first to get the whole story.

 

Yes, this is what makes me fear you'd be found out and sued....