SEP Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Okay, so another thread got me thinking... What do atheists believe happen when you die? Is this life the be-all, end-all? If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? or do you? I mean obviously you don't want to spend this life in jail, etc... but hopefully you understand what I mean. If you do not proclaim to be an atheist, please do not speculate. I really want to hear it from the source. I'm sure there will be lots of variety. (Anyone can answer the poll up above. I just didn't want non-atheists answering for them.) Edited April 2, 2011 by SEP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Ashes to ashes. I reap my rewards in this life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Ashes to ashes. I reap my rewards in this life. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Okay, so another thread got me thinking... If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? Why does one need a reward to behave morally? This is something that all the atheists I know truly do not understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEP Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 like 'karma?' or would that be a 'belief' in something bigger? so is there literally nothing supernatural at all involved in your day to day? just face value for everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Why does one need a reward to behave morally? This is something that all the atheists I know truly do not understand. :iagree: I follow the golden rule, because it's right, not because I think I'll get a reward. I'd vote for recycled, but that's not a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? I don't need the promise of a reward in order to be motivated to do the right thing. Behaving in a morally responsible manner is an intrinsically valuable experience. I would think that only someone whose moral compass was seriously immature would need external motivation to behave ethically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Because I consider myself a very religous agnostic, not an athiest. However, I wanted to participate because I wanted to say that I haven't heard that question--If you don't believe in God, why do have to behave well?--since elementary school. I have no idea what happens after we die. Personally, I believe it's far too big an idea for any human to really "know." But I behave morally because it's the right thing to do, because to do otherwise risks hurting others, because the world is a better place when we all treat each other with kindness. I don't need to promise of candy later in order to eat my broccoli. Edited April 2, 2011 by Jenny in Florida spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? :iagree:I am a Christian through and through but this train of thought has always bothered me. My SIL is an atheist and she is one of the most wonderful, beautiful, moral people I know. Even as a Christian, I don't think you have to be a Christian to be moral. As to her thoughts about what happens when she dies, she believes as the other posters do - ashes to ashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 like 'karma?' or would that be a 'belief' in something bigger? so is there literally nothing supernatural at all involved in your day to day? just face value for everything? I'm not sure I "believe" in anything supernatural, but I am awestruck frequently by the beauty of life, other humans and the world in which we live. I'm open to the idea of there being "something," but I have no idea what it would be. I use the term "karma" loosely to describe how I approach life, but I don't believe strictly in the actual philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 like 'karma?' or would that be a 'belief' in something bigger? so is there literally nothing supernatural at all involved in your day to day? just face value for everything? Doing good feels good. It also often attracts or encourages good. I tend to use the word karma, but not in it's actual meaning. Doing bad almost always leads to feeling bad and attracting bad. And I do have a world to leave behind for my children and their children and so on. I'd like it to be a good one for them, and for everyone else. It's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Okay, so another thread got me thinking... What do atheists believe happen when you die? Is this life the be-all, end-all? If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? or do you? I mean obviously you don't want to spend this life in jail, etc... but hopefully you understand what I mean. If you do not proclaim to be an atheist, please do not speculate. I really want to hear it from the source. I'm sure there will be lots of variety. (Anyone can answer the poll up above. I just didn't want non-atheists answering for them.) Okay, I'll try to answer this as best as I can. I'm sure there are tons of websites that would give you more detailed answers to such questions, such as Dawkins dot net or whatever. I will say that if believing in a god is the only thing that is stopping a person from raping, killing, robbing, torturing, etc. then I prefer that they continue to believe in a god. I don't want to be harmed, it doesn't feel good to be harmed whether that is physically, financially, emotionally, or any other way. Harm is painful and causes much suffering- since I know that suffering is not good I don't want to cause it. Basically it's the golden rule (which did not originate with Christianity). If we want to be able to live our lives feeling reasonably safe (we need to be able to sleep at night without fear of someone killing us and our family or taking us captive and using us for all sorts of sordid things, we need to be able to walk down the street without fearing that every person we meet may wish to take our life or mug us or..., etc.) then it makes sense to NOT do those things to other people. As I said before, I think that morality has evolved as humans have evolved. You might want to read The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, or at least read about it. I HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I'm not sure I "believe" in anything supernatural, but I am awestruck frequently by the beauty of life, other humans and the world in which we live. This is how I feel. I don't feel the need for anything supernatural to appreciate the beauty of life. And to the PP who said recycled - yes! That would have been a good choice. The circle of life and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 so is there literally nothing supernatural at all involved in your day to day? just face value for everything? There is nothing "supernatural" in my life. But I experience the magic of love, beauty, kindness and fellowship on a daily basis. That's enough for me. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 :iagree: I follow the golden rule, because it's right, not because I think I'll get a reward. I'd vote for recycled, but that's not a choice. :iagree:I toy with the idea of being recycled=reincarnation, but that really is different as there is no 'spirit' that gets recycled IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 like 'karma?' or would that be a 'belief' in something bigger? Well, the full belief in karma is a spiritual belief, but something like karma yes. The idea that if you treat people badly you can probably expect the same treatment in return, and vice versa would be a reasonable description of my beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 like 'karma?' or would that be a 'belief' in something bigger? so is there literally nothing supernatural at all involved in your day to day? just face value for everything? There is nothing supernatural at all involved in any of my days. The term Supernatural implies something that exists outside of Nature, something that is not 'possible' as we understand Nature to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Okay, so another thread got me thinking... What do atheists believe happen when you die? Is this life the be-all, end-all? If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? or do you? I mean obviously you don't want to spend this life in jail, etc... but hopefully you understand what I mean. If you do not proclaim to be an atheist, please do not speculate. I really want to hear it from the source. I'm sure there will be lots of variety. (Anyone can answer the poll up above. I just didn't want non-atheists answering for them.) Wouldn't it negate the poll if just anyone answered the poll? Isn't the poll on what atheists think will happen after death? Or am I reading you incorrectly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEP Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Why does one need a reward to behave morally? This is something that all the atheists I know truly do not understand. even before I was an actual Christian and understood the full scope of that, I always believed in God, so I cannot know what it would be like to make moral decisions in light of not believing. I was curious what that looks like. as per Biblical teaching and my own personal relationship with Christ, I conduct myself the way I do because I love Him and want to please Him. Although I am already going to heaven, and nothing can take that from me, I look forward to the 'rewards' in eternity that I will get from Christ for the life that I led while on this earth. since Christianity believes that eternity is forever, those rewards are much sweeter than any sacrifice i make here in my short 80 years. If I am wrong, and it's all hogwash, I still conducted myself well...and I end up dust... If I am right then that is horrible news for unbelievers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEP Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Wouldn't it negate the poll if just anyone answered the poll? Isn't the poll on what atheists think will happen after death? Or am I reading you incorrectly? I figured most atheists would reply in writing. So I was widening the scope a bit for the poll. Maybe I should have done two threads... oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 even before I was an actual Christian and understood the full scope of that, I always believed in God, so I cannot know what it would be like to make moral decisions in light of not believing. I was curious what that looks like. as per Biblical teaching and my own personal relationship with Christ, I conduct myself the way I do because I love Him and want to please Him. Although I am already going to heaven, and nothing can take that from me, I look forward to the 'rewards' in eternity that I will get from Christ for the life that I led while on this earth. since Christianity believes that eternity is forever, those rewards are much sweeter than any sacrifice i make here in my short 80 years. If I am wrong, and it's all hogwash, I still conducted myself well...and I end up dust... If I am right then that is horrible news for unbelievers... My question in return would be, what is it, exactly, that you are sacrificing in the name of eternal reward? Surely you're not saying you desire to be BAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppleGreen Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Why does one need a reward to behave morally? This is something that all the atheists I know truly do not understand. :iagree: Yep, Radio Lab did a fascinating show on morality a few years a go. It talked about where our sense of right and wrong comes from and how it shows up in the animal world. Really interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 If I am wrong, and it's all hogwash, I still conducted myself well...and I end up dust... If I am right then that is horrible news for unbelievers...:glare: Thanks for that comment, I haven't heard THAT before. If I continued to believe in god and continued to tithe money for Christian causes and I continued to 'pray' about my problems instead of DO something about them then I would have wasted an enormous amount of my life time and finances on nothing. With the whole god thing- most people here are atheists in regards to: Thor, Zues, Athena, Pluto, etc. If there is an afterlife where you'll be punished for not believing in/worshiping the right god, how do you know you have chosen the right god to worship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 My father & stepmother are Atheists and they believe that after death is nothing - you're dead, gone, the end. I was 'taught' Atheism as a kid, but I think I was more of an agnostic for a long time, since I didn't totally believe that there was "nothing" -- or at least, I didn't know for sure if I did… was there something? was there nothing? were they right? ? ? ? Edit: and I find the entire idea that an Atheist would have some kind of problem doing the right thing to be quite rude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 My father & stepmother are Atheists and they believe that after death is nothing - you're dead, gone, the end. I was 'taught' Atheism as a kid, but I think I was more of an agnostic for a long time, since I didn't totally believe that there was "nothing" -- or at least, I didn't know for sure if I did… was there something? was there nothing? were they right? ? ? ? That's a whole other thing. I don't raise atheists. I raise kids who can walk their own paths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEP Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 My question in return would be, what is it, exactly, that you are sacrificing in the name of eternal reward? Surely you're not saying you desire to be BAD. interesting question. bad like murder? no. i'm going to be honest here and i'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. this is my story. when i got saved it was supernatural. like a little freaky. someone 'shared' the gospel and then later I was in the shower and thought about what they said, and decided that yes, i wanted to turn my life over to Christ. i wanted to put Him in charge because so far i was crap at handling my own life. after, i prayed. i felt different and i was surprised.(later on, as I learned more and read more I believe that I felt different because the Lord's Holy Spirit took up residence in my soul) I realize this sounds completely hokey if this has never happened to you. as i write it, I am thinking, "these people who don't know me are going to think I'm a lunatic." So, from this point on, it's like I have a moral compass in me that I have never had before. the curse words that used to come out like firecrackers now have a sting in my heart. drinking beer is no longer fun. i have conviction bit by bit about things in my life that do not line up with a 'Holy' life. pre-marital sex? forget it. not worth the fact that I feel so terrible afterwards. dirty movies? nope. eventually, the Holy Spirit starts working on things less obvious like my 'tone', my attitude, etc... He stills works on me about every 5 mins because I am far from perfect. For once in my life I am living for someone else than me. I want to please Christ and live a holier life so that I can be a witness for how wonderful He is. There are a lot of things that are sin to a Christian that probably are not viewed as sin to an unbeliever. I mean, I guess there is no such thing as sin to people who believe in nothing. So, therein lies the rub. I feel bad when I do things because I have disappointed Christ. If I had no conviction, would I care what I did? I do not know. So, on top of the fact that I feel conviction when I sin, I don't want to disappoint Christ. According to the Word, I will reap rewards for living for Him, loving others, helping, etc... I'm not asking for them. It's just written down as a promise, so I look forward to it. I also know of many people who are 'moral' who are not Christians, but still believe in a 'god'. I just don't personally know anyone who does not believe in anything so I don't know what drives the morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Why does one need a reward to behave morally? This is something that all the atheists I know truly do not understand. Living a good life is its own reward. We are social creatures, and depend on one another. If you aren't honest, decent, and true, expect no one to be that way towards you, once they know you aren't. I don't have to wait until death for a swat-down. I can happen tomorrow if I cheat or steal, or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 even before I was an actual Christian and understood the full scope of that, I always believed in God, so I cannot know what it would be like to make moral decisions in light of not believing. I was curious what that looks like. as per Biblical teaching and my own personal relationship with Christ, I conduct myself the way I do because I love Him and want to please Him. Although I am already going to heaven, and nothing can take that from me, I look forward to the 'rewards' in eternity that I will get from Christ for the life that I led while on this earth. since Christianity believes that eternity is forever, those rewards are much sweeter than any sacrifice i make here in my short 80 years. Without the promise of a reward or a god telling you what to do, would you have no reason to be nice to people? No reason not to kill, steal, to damage someone else's property? I'm reasonably sure that you're a decent person, and that if you examined this particular question, you'd realize it isn't God keeping you from stealing your neighbor's way nicer car or beating up the guy in front of you in the express lane who had too many items. Sounds silly, but I'm not being snarky. I doubt it's God or the promise of heaven keeping you from doing terrible things. Besides, Christianity doesn't say be a good person and you'll go to heaven. It says believe in Jesus and you'll go to heaven. There are plenty of people on death row who will "go to heaven". They are not nice people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwjeanie Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Morality comes from an understanding and respect for mankind and above that for living creatures in general. I know many atheists who are strong supporters of animal rights, human rights, and environmental preservation. It’s an innate preservation of species and respect for the earth that gives me my morality, rather than a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I just don't personally know anyone who does not believe in anything so I don't know what drives the morality. Evolution, as secular mom stated. Also, I must have been typing my previous response while you were typing this one, because I addressed some of what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaissezFaire Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 My question is without a source of absolutes in which to take your moral compass from, how do you know what IS moral? Where does the right and wrong come from? This is a serious question and I am not being facetious at all. I really do want to know where atheists glean their morals from. And I know you have them, I know some really great atheists. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmarango Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I believe that this is it. I need to love the people in my life fully now because there is no reunion in heaven. I also need to enjoy my life now and that means living up to my own standards and not letting my family down. Therefore, I have no desire to steal, hurt people, etc. I maintain my morals for the benefit of myself and those I hold dear. I would have also voted for entering the carbon cycle again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwjeanie Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/AtheistFAQ.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 interesting question. bad like murder? no. i'm going to be honest here and i'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. this is my story. when i got saved it was supernatural. like a little freaky. someone 'shared' the gospel and then later I was in the shower and thought about what they said, and decided that yes, i wanted to turn my life over to Christ. i wanted to put Him in charge because so far i was crap at handling my own life. after, i prayed. i felt different and i was surprised.(later on, as I learned more and read more I believe that I felt different because the Lord's Holy Spirit took up residence in my soul) I realize this sounds completely hokey if this has never happened to you. as i write it, I am thinking, "these people who don't know me are going to think I'm a lunatic." So, from this point on, it's like I have a moral compass in me that I have never had before. the curse words that used to come out like firecrackers now have a sting in my heart. drinking beer is no longer fun. i have conviction bit by bit about things in my life that do not line up with a 'Holy' life. pre-marital sex? forget it. not worth the fact that I feel so terrible afterwards. dirty movies? nope. eventually, the Holy Spirit starts working on things less obvious like my 'tone', my attitude, etc... He stills works on me about every 5 mins because I am far from perfect. For once in my life I am living for someone else than me. I want to please Christ and live a holier life so that I can be a witness for how wonderful He is. There are a lot of things that are sin to a Christian that probably are not viewed as sin to an unbeliever. I mean, I guess there is no such thing as sin to people who believe in nothing. So, therein lies the rub. I feel bad when I do things because I have disappointed Christ. If I had no conviction, would I care what I did? I do not know. So, on top of the fact that I feel conviction when I sin, I don't want to disappoint Christ. According to the Word, I will reap rewards for living for Him, loving others, helping, etc... I'm not asking for them. It's just written down as a promise, so I look forward to it. I also know of many people who are 'moral' who are not Christians, but still believe in a 'god'. I just don't personally know anyone who does not believe in anything so I don't know what drives the morality. I feel bad when I do things that could negatively impact other people. Whether you feel those bad things would hurt your Christ or your neighbor, I think it pretty much boils down to the same general outlook. Now, individual sins are a whole other can of worms. I mean, I had a Lutheran pastor who could cuss (minus the commanded no-nos) and drink up a storm. I'm pretty confident he was a Christian, though. ;) If the ones you've listed make you feel so bad, I fail to see abstaining from them as much of a sacrifice. *To me*, that would be like saying I've sacrificed the ability/right to scratch out my eyeballs in exchange for the reward of sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEP Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 If the ones you've listed make you feel so bad, I fail to see abstaining from them as much of a sacrifice. *To me*, that would be like saying I've sacrificed the ability/right to scratch out my eyeballs in exchange for the reward of sight. you are challenging me in a way that you do not even know, no atheist vs. Christian, but in another way... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freethinkermama Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Okay, so another thread got me thinking... What do atheists believe happen when you die? Is this life the be-all, end-all? If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? or do you? I mean obviously you don't want to spend this life in jail, etc... but hopefully you understand what I mean. If you do not proclaim to be an atheist, please do not speculate. I really want to hear it from the source. I'm sure there will be lots of variety. (Anyone can answer the poll up above. I just didn't want non-atheists answering for them.) I'm an atheist, and I conduct myself morally because I feel compassion and a sense of responsibility to other individuals, living beings, and our planet. If someone can't do that without a god, I feel relieved for them to follow one. They obviously need an exterior conscience, and other human beings need to be protected from them. That's my response every time I'm asked this question. I don't know what happens when people die, but I tend to think it's the end. That's what I put in the poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 My father & stepmother are Atheists and they believe that after death is nothing - you're dead, gone, the end. I was 'taught' Atheism as a kid, but I think I was more of an agnostic for a long time, since I didn't totally believe that there was "nothing" -- or at least, I didn't know for sure if I did… was there something? was there nothing? were they right? ? ? ? That's a whole other thing. I don't raise atheists. I raise kids who can walk their own paths. Mine didn't tolerate "any of that religion foolishness" and very definitely tried to raise us to (not) believe just as they did. It worked on 2/3 of us kids - I'm the weird one. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funschooler5 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) My question is without a source of absolutes in which to take your moral compass from, how do you know what IS moral? Where does the right and wrong come from? This is a serious question and I am not being facetious at all. I really do want to know where atheists glean their morals from. And I know you have them, I know some really great atheists. :) I would say that morality is inherently obvious (I can't figure out how to word that, I don't mean it snarky:tongue_smilie:). Of course we don't kill or hurt other people. Of course we don't steal. It makes us feel bad, because most people (that aren't impaired in some way) are born with empathy. Deep down we don't want to hurt other people, because we know what it would feel like if it happened to us. I would also make the point that because atheists believe that this is our only life, we might feel life on earth is even more precious than those that believe in an afterlife. Once it's gone, it's gone, a life ending is an even bigger deal to us. ETA: As far as swearing, rated R movies, etc...no, I wouldn't consider that morally wrong, because (in my mind) it's not hurting anyone else to do those things. But I don't swear or watch those movies around people who would find it morally offensive, so in that way I feel I am being moral. Edited April 2, 2011 by funschooler5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freethinkermama Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 even before I was an actual Christian and understood the full scope of that, I always believed in God, so I cannot know what it would be like to make moral decisions in light of not believing. I was curious what that looks like. as per Biblical teaching and my own personal relationship with Christ, I conduct myself the way I do because I love Him and want to please Him. Although I am already going to heaven, and nothing can take that from me, I look forward to the 'rewards' in eternity that I will get from Christ for the life that I led while on this earth. since Christianity believes that eternity is forever, those rewards are much sweeter than any sacrifice i make here in my short 80 years. If I am wrong, and it's all hogwash, I still conducted myself well...and I end up dust... If I am right then that is horrible news for unbelievers... Ah, Pascal's Wager. Passe, I'm afraid. And, if the Egyptians were correct, your soul will be eaten by Ammit when you die. I'm sure you feel no more threat of that than I do being thrown into the fire by your god. :) You may draw whatever conclusions you like there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freethinkermama Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 :glare: Thanks for that comment, I haven't heard THAT before. If I continued to believe in god and continued to tithe money for Christian causes and I continued to 'pray' about my problems instead of DO something about them then I would have wasted an enormous amount of my life time and finances on nothing. With the whole god thing- most people here are atheists in regards to: Thor, Zues, Athena, Pluto, etc. If there is an afterlife where you'll be punished for not believing in/worshiping the right god, how do you know you have chosen the right god to worship? This is a common evangelistic proposition invented by Pascal, called Pascal's Wager, or Pascal's Gambet. You can Wiki. There are all sorts of sites that discuss the merits and flaws of the proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Robyn Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Why does one need a reward to behave morally? This is something that all the atheists I know truly do not understand. :iagree: I don't need written rules and consequences to keep me in line. I behave morally because I am not an @$$#*!! (more or less). ETA: And I believe death is the end, but I hope I'm wrong and get to walk the earth in spirit form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 This is a common evangelistic proposition invented by Pascal, called Pascal's Wager, or Pascal's Gambet. You can Wiki. There are all sorts of sites that discuss the merits and flaws of the proposition. Oh I know, just couldn't remember the guy's name :lol:. It's just frustrating and highly annoying to me to be baited with a question and then have such a thing thrown at me. Feels like being slapped, KWIM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I have no idea, and I think it's perfectly acceptable to not know. Why do I choose to be moral? Good grief! Really? I interpret that to mean that a person cannot have any desire to be moral other than by the demands of their religion/faith. I don't want to live that way. How sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Researcher Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Dead, gone, the end. However, I do believe that my actions "live on" so to speak. My children will have memories (good or bad) because of my actions. They may parent well or not because of my parenting. Every person I come across will be affected by my behavior. I believe that, ultimately, people have the power to make the world what they want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I behave morally in this world because a basic morality allows for the smooth running of society and pleasant relations between both friends and strangers. Why, I hear you ask, would I behave morally if it would have no ill effects on me? I don't lie or cheat because I know that, in general, lying and cheating are bad for society and therefore for me and those I love. I hope that others won't behave badly to me, so I try to behave well to them. And yes, when I die, I die. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I behave morally not out of fear of retribution, but because it is the right thing to do. It is what I want to teach my children. I want them to do what is right out of an inner conviction to engage in moral behavior, not because 1) They are afraid of the possible consequences or 2) because they think they get some sort of reward for simply behaving as good humans should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
july19 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I am truly upset by the assumption that you need to believe in a higher power in order to be moral. Is that truly the only reason why some people are good to others? That is extremely sad. I am a moral person, and behave accordingly, because it's the right thing to do. I do not have to fear eternal ****ation in order to be a good person. I choose to live my life devoted to helping charities, feeding the hungry, building homes for the impoverished, etc. because I have the desire to help others and make a difference. I don't do it to please a God. I do it because I feel wonderful as a person when I can have an impact with others. If people need to live in fear of going to hell in order to be a good person, that's their choice. But it isn't for me. I will be teaching my son and future children the same. Be good because YOU want to be, not because you are afraid of being punished. That being said, why so many religious threads? I'm new, so maybe it's always like this. I felt like I found a home here....but if there is always this much religious discussion, I am really disheartened and confused. I have found these forums a true gift, but there are at least 6 threads going on right now about religion, faith, lack thereof, etc. Is it always like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Morality comes from an understanding and respect for mankind and above that for living creatures in general. I know many atheists who are strong supporters of animal rights, human rights, and environmental preservation. It’s an innate preservation of species and respect for the earth that gives me my morality, rather than a book. Yes, exactly! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I voted 'Dead, gone, the End' but it's really dead, gone, but the end doesn't really come until there's no one left alive who personally cares you ever lived. I have a nice theory of reincarnation, though, because I like it and think it ought to work that way, but I don't actually believe it. It's a shame, but the best I can do is pretend to believe it so I do. That really freaks dh out. :lol: If so, if there is no promise of 'reward' in an after-life, why conduct yourself morally? or do you? I mean obviously you don't want to spend this life in jail, etc... but hopefully you understand what I mean. We don't live in bubbles. We interact with people and dying doesn't erase the impact we've had on anyone or anything else. It just prevents future impact. There may not be any afterlife, any god to pat us on the back and say "not too bad a job, Kid," but while we are alive, we all like to spend as much time as possible without physical, emotional or mental pain. I might be more important to me than anyone else is, but in the general scheme of things, I'm just one entity and it follows that the rest wandering about would rather do without pain of any kind just as much as I do. One very important ingredient to my comfort is not feeling like I'm a lousy person and that is a pretty good motivation for living morally. So the reward you are asking about is self esteem, I think, since that's what I get in return for my efforts. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 That being said, why so many religious threads? I'm new, so maybe it's always like this. I felt like I found a home here....but if there is always this much religious discussion, I am really disheartened and confused. I have found these forums a true gift, but there are at least 6 threads going on right now about religion, faith, lack thereof, etc. Is it always like this? Welcome, and not it's not always like this. These things tend to come in spurts though- one thread/question will spawn another and another and another and so on until it runs it course for the time. Just don't ask about shopping carts, removing shoes at someones house or asking people to remove their shoes in your home, or crockpots. Some form of the word 'books' is a euphemism for breasts, so of course talking about bookshelves can either be talking about bookshelves OR talking about bras, and some form of the word tea is a euphemism for sex. I can't remember which letters are capitalized in books and tea though. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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