WWYD?? I don't know whether to raise a subject with a friend or not (CC)

[Hedgehog]

Please help me out here. I am in such a quandary.

 

As you might know, my husband has been unfaithful to me, on and off, for about 7 years. I've dealt with it over time, with the help of God and the love and support of some close friends. It's not ideal, but I am reasonably peaceful and content in my life.

 

A married friend came over to our house recently, and wanted to talk to us, because he had a notion that his own problems were perhaps similar to my husband's and he believed we would understand and be able to help him, which we were willing to try and do. He had been thinking about telling us of his situation for some weeks; there are about half a dozen other people that he and his wife have both told.

 

After telling us the whole sorry history, we realised that the hour was late and we asked if he would like to at least contact his wife to let her know that he was with us still and would be home before too long. He said that his wife had not known that he was going to tell us anything, but that it would be fine and he was grateful for our time and the few thoughts we had shared.

 

When he left, I said to my husband that I sincerely hoped that his wife wouldn't mind, and that I thought it was a little odd that he talked about what a wonderful person she was and all that she did, and yet he was prepared to tell us everything without her prior knowledge and consent. :confused:

 

This morning we received a message from this man, saying that his wife was indeed very upset about his having told us all, that it had opened the wounds afresh, when she felt she had begun to heal. He didn't say whether he had told her that we are in a similar situation and understood and would not judge either of them...

 

So now both my husband and I feel really badly for the wife, because I suspect that she probably wouldn't have chosen to tell us - unlike her husband, I don't think she was aware of there being any issues in our marriage. She knows that we know, and we know that she knows that we know, but my big dilemma is that I don't know whether to call her up, or text her, or go around to see her; we have been friendly but she's not someone I would call a very close friend; I would love to help her if I can, but don't want to force a conversation on her that she doesn't really want, yet if I say nothing, will she think I don't care??

 

Bless you if you've read all this, I would be so grateful if anyone has any thoughts.

 

ETA: A further thought.. if I decided to go around.. what about taking some flowers or something, and saying that I just wanted her to know that I cared?

Edited March 27, 2011 by Hedgehog

[Lovedtodeath]

I would talk to her. I wouldn't be able to stay silent. I would try to do it quickly, so that you don't catch her in a "re-opening" stage again.

 

I would probably try to make it in person so that she wouldn't be able to hang up on me or simply not read a letter... but then in person is difficult because you don't want to surprise her or for it to be bad timing.

 

:grouphug:

[KristinaBreece]

That's really a tough situation for all of you. :grouphug:

 

I might text her and tell her that if she'd like to talk that you're available and may be able to relate better than she realizes. If she doesn't want to pursue it after that, I would feel like you'd at least reached out to let her know that you care, KWIM?

[Nestof3]

I cannot get beyond the first paragraph. Do you mean to say he HAD been unfaithful on and off for 7 years or that he is still being unfaithful?

 

The answer affects how I would respond to the man seeking counsel from your husband.

[Hedgehog]

I cannot get beyond the first paragraph. Do you mean to say he HAD been unfaithful on and off for 7 years or that he is still being unfaithful?

 

The answer affects how I would respond to the man seeking counsel from your husband.

 

As of now, it's in the past; whether it will happen again, I have no idea. One thing I do know, is that right now, my husband is sincerely repentant of his sin. Does that help?

[jewellsmommy]

I would talk to her, just to let her know that you understand better than most what she is feeling. I would take her cues. If she is reserved about it then make it a quick "I know what you've been through. I'm here if you ever want to talk" and then leave it at that. Hopefully she will be open. :grouphug:

[May]

I would probably text her and say if she evers needs to talk you are available. I would never bring the subject up again unless she does. Next time I saw her, I would act like I never knewand treat her no differently. She probably is embarrassed in knowing others have been told.

[Nestof3]

As of now, it's in the past; whether it will happen again, I have no idea. One thing I do know, is that right now, my husband is sincerely repentant of his sin. Does that help?

 

Yes, it does. Thank you. I don't think counseling on an issue like that can be effective unless the husband has a testimony of faithfulness following his sin, that it is apparent that he truly loathes the sin, and that he is currently refusing to put himself into situations where he would start on the path to unfaithfulness.

 

If not, those things can become more like a sympathy, yeah it's really hard to stay faithful, but at least we are forgiven when we do mess up, and at least someone else understands.

 

Unfaithfulness is surely not something that a person just falls into. It comes from baby step after baby step of inappropriate actions.

 

******************

 

I think talking to your husband was perfectly fine of him, but talking to you as a couple without telling his wife was crossing the line. I would just reach out to her.

[Hedgehog]

Yes, it does. Thank you. I don't think counseling on an issue like that can be effective unless the husband has a testimony of faithfulness following his sin, that it is apparent that he truly loathes the sin, and that he is currently refusing to put himself into situations where he would start on the path to unfaithfulness.

 

If not, those things can become more like a sympathy, yeah it's really hard to stay faithful, but at least we are forgiven when we do mess up, and at least someone else understands.

 

Unfaithfulness is surely not something that a person just falls into. It comes from baby step after baby step of inappropriate actions.

 

:iagree: 100%.

 

 

I think talking to your husband was perfectly fine of him, but talking to you as a couple without telling his wife was crossing the line. I would just reach out to her.

 

Yes. I'm pretty sure I should, but just not sure how best to do it.

[Nestof3]

:iagree: 100%.

 

 

 

 

Yes. I'm pretty sure I should, but just not sure how best to do it.

 

I would just assume that you know how she is feeling -- embarrassed, ashamed, unloved, etc. Just remind her that she has nothing to be ashamed of. Let her know that you are there for her. :D

[Hedgehog]

I would talk to her. I wouldn't be able to stay silent. I would try to do it quickly, so that you don't catch her in a "re-opening" stage again.

 

I would probably try to make it in person so that she wouldn't be able to hang up on me or simply not read a letter... but then in person is difficult because you don't want to surprise her or for it to be bad timing.

 

:grouphug:

 

I guess that is one of the things I'm afraid of.. that by leaving it, day after day, it gets harder to do..

 

I have a fair idea of when she would be in, having said that I know she is a busy bee at home..

[Murphy101]

I would not have spoken to him without it being clear his wife was on board with it, it not present at the discussion.

 

But that mistake is already done and can't be undone.

 

As you aren't actually friends and she obviously didn't want to discuss this with you to begin with, I'd tell my dh to tell her husband he needs to talk to his wife and should have enough sense to talk to his spouse about his marriage before every other person they know. He needs to apologize profusely to her. After that, if they agree they need someone to discuss these issues with outside the home, they should find a suitable agreed on counselor for that purpose.

 

As for how to deal with the wife, I would pretend I knew nothing unless the wife brought it up. She did not seek, nor want, to discuss this with you. So I would let it go and let her be out of respect for that. Personally, if I were her, I would be furious that another woman spoke to my husband about my marriage and not be interested in talking to you for a while. Yes, I'd be more mad at my dh, but I have to deal with him. I wouldn't want to have to deal with you too, nice tho you might be trying to be. Sorry.

[Starr]

I would either let it go or talk directly to her. I wouldn't text, way too impersonal for such personal matters.

[Hedgehog]

I would not have spoken to him without it being clear his wife was on board with it, it not present at the discussion.

 

But that mistake is already done and can't be undone.

 

I think both DH and I assumed he had cleared it with his wife first.. we were pretty astounded when he said that she didn't know anything about the conversation we had just had. :sad:

 

As you aren't actually friends...

 

We aren't close friends, but I've known the family for a couple of years and seen them all quite regularly; we have talked at length on different occasions about stuff.. families.. being wives.. topics we have in common.

 

...and she obviously didn't want to discuss this with you to begin with, I'd tell my dh to tell her husband he needs to talk to his wife and should have enough sense to talk to his spouse about his marriage before every other person they know. He needs to apologize profusely to her. After that, if they agree they need someone to discuss these issues with outside the home, they should find a suitable agreed on counselor for that purpose.

 

As for how to deal with the wife, I would pretend I knew nothing unless the wife brought it up. She did not seek, nor want, to discuss this with you. So I would let it go and let her be out of respect for that. Personally, if I were her, I would be furious that another woman spoke to my husband about my marriage and not be interested in talking to you for a while. Yes, I'd be more mad at my dh, but I have to deal with him. I wouldn't want to have to deal with you too, nice tho you might be trying to be. Sorry.

 

I am afraid of that.. that without her husband saying anything, she probably wouldn't have said anything to me herself. It's the discomfort of an elephant in the room that everyone knows is there, but no-one will mention, you know?

[kalanamak]

I'm a letter person. I would send her a kindly letter, being as frank as you care to about your situation, promising her no gossip, giving sympathy but making sure you are clear you are not "feeling sorry for her".

 

I like letters because I can be carefully clear about what I want to say AND the person can look it over in 3, 6, or 60 months down the line and may be "ready" to read it then.

 

:grouphug:

[Murphy101]

I think both DH and I assumed he had cleared it with his wife first.. we were pretty astounded when he said that she didn't know anything about the conversation we had just had. :sad:

 

It should not have been assumed. If you weren't close, you have no way of knowing the couple well enough to assume anything.

 

We aren't close friends, but I've known the family for a couple of years and seen them all quite regularly; we have talked at length on different occasions about stuff.. families.. being wives.. topics we have in common.

 

Not good enough. Sorry. I know lots of people for years and have had many a casual mundane conversation with them. I'd still be livid if a woman I was not very close to did this. Just knowing them casually for many years would not be enough. It would be a certain sure method of assuring no further growth in that friendship.

 

I am afraid of that.. that without her husband saying anything, she probably wouldn't have said anything to me herself. It's the discomfort of an elephant in the room that everyone knows is there, but no-one will mention, you know?

 

Well yes and no. It's an elephant that you and her dh forced into the room and she has just cause to resent that intrusion. I don't know why you are afraid of that. That if her dh hadn't said anything she wouldn't have? She isn't close to you, by your own admission, so why should she have mentioned anything about her marriage to you? And now that it has been forced upon her, why should she welcome further discussion from you about it?

 

Seriously. This was a huge mistake with red flags of impending disaster from the beginning. I'd drop it. Stick to polite in passing conversation in the future unless SHE offers more. If you are uncomfortable, well that's just too bad.:grouphug:

[KristinaBreece]

It's an elephant that you and her dh forced into the room and she has just cause to resent that intrusion.

 

I would say that responsibility falls squarely on the other DH. He was the only person who did not keep a confidence he should have....

[Sophia]

This morning we received a message from this man, saying that his wife was indeed very upset about his having told us all, that it had opened the wounds afresh, when she felt she had begun to heal.

 

 

Based on the bolded part, I would not bring this up to her and would try to forget I knew anything about their business.

 

Poor woman...her husband was out of line to tell you anything, and the fact you went through something similar would mean nothing to me if I were her.

He violated her trust. This is really just between them.

[Murphy101]

I would say that responsibility falls squarely on the other DH. He was the only person who did not keep a confidence he should have....

 

 

Oh I completely agree that her own dh is the main problem and I'm sure she is double livid with him. But she HAS to deal with him as he is her husband.

 

She shouldn't have to deal with the OP and OP's dh as this is flat out none of their business and she certainly has reason to be angry with them, especially if they don't promptly butt out now that they are aware their intrusion was not welcome.

 

Based on the bolded part, I would not bring this up to her and would try to forget I knew anything about their business.

 

Poor woman...her husband was out of line to tell you anything, and the fact you went through something similar would mean nothing to me if I were her.

He violated her trust. This is really just between them.

 

Yep. Completely.

[8circles]

deleted because I don't want to be playing the blame game. I'm sorry.

Edited March 27, 2011 by momoflaw

[mhgillil]

OP - I would definitely talk to the woman, in person, and explain that 1) you have been in a similar situation in your own marriage and 2) you and your husband both believe that her DH had her permission to speak with the two of you about the issues. Offer to lend support if it is wanted, but make sure she knows that she can trust you and your DH not to talk with anyone else about their marriage and that you will not pry uninvited.

[eternalknot]

I'm a letter person. I would send her a kindly letter, being as frank as you care to about your situation, promising her no gossip, giving sympathy but making sure you are clear you are not "feeling sorry for her".

 

I like letters because I can be carefully clear about what I want to say AND the person can look it over in 3, 6, or 60 months down the line and may be "ready" to read it then.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

I understand the POV of not communicating this with her, since she's upset (and maybe embarassed?) that her husband spoke to you without her knowledge ... but she knows you know. She knows YOU know she knows. I think an acknowledgment on your part is appropriate; if not the offer for an understanding ear/shoulder, then a brief note saying your just as upset as she is that her husband spoke to you without her consent, and you're there if she needs you. Not acknowledging the elephant doesn't make it go away, regardless of who invited it in.

[melissel]

Without getting into who's at fault or who assumed what or who should have thought differently, since it's too late for all that, I think I agree with kalanamak about sending a nice letter. Actually, I'd probably prefer an email--they feel easier to ignore if I wanted to pretend none of it had ever happened. If I was in that woman's shoes, I would NOT want to speak to you about it, either in person or on the phone. I might appreciate a note from you to assure me that you would never speak of it to anyone else, or even to me unless I wanted to talk about it at some point in the far distant future. I think that would relieve my mind a bit, even if what I really wanted was just to get in my time machine and go back and throttle that guy before he could call your DH in the first place :glare:

 

That's just my .02.

 

Oh, and I forgot to also say: :grouphug: I'm sorry your DH has put you in this kind of position over the years and that this guy has put you in an awkward spot as well.

Edited March 27, 2011 by melissel

[CarolfromIL]

I'm a letter person. I would send her a kindly letter, being as frank as you care to about your situation, promising her no gossip, giving sympathy but making sure you are clear you are not "feeling sorry for her".

 

I like letters because I can be carefully clear about what I want to say AND the person can look it over in 3, 6, or 60 months down the line and may be "ready" to read it then.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree:

I would also send flowers with the letter. Be heartfelt though and consider fessing up with the truth. Let the wife know the husband "let the cat out of the bag" but you believe the marriage can be saved.

[Pretty in Pink]

I feel that a letter of apology is appropriate for the situation. Let her know that this was a misunderstanding -- you believed that she knew what her dh was saying to you at the time. You are sorry for the mistake. If, in the future, she decides that she wants to discuss the issue with someone who has BTDT then you are there for her; otherwise, you will not bring it up to anyone, including her or her spouse, again. Ever.

[Trish]

There are half a dozen other couples who already know this same info about the friend and his wife? Not sure why *you* knowing makes such a difference, but I'd be inclined to let it go, or let her be the one to bring it up, if ever.

[Trish]

OP - I would definitely talk to the woman, in person, and explain that 1) you have been in a similar situation in your own marriage and 2) you and your husband both believe that her DH had her permission to speak with the two of you about the issues. Offer to lend support if it is wanted, but make sure she knows that she can trust you and your DH not to talk with anyone else about their marriage and that you will not pry uninvited.

 

Wouldn't the woman's husband already have mentioned that to her? Otherwise, what was the point of the conversation? And telling the wife about it?

[Lovedtodeath]

Based on the bolded part, I would not bring this up to her and would try to forget I knew anything about their business.

 

Poor woman...her husband was out of line to tell you anything, and the fact you went through something similar would mean nothing to me if I were her.

He violated her trust. This is really just between them.

I am sorry, but I feel like the husband has every right to talk to his friends about his life and ask for advice for his marriage. I don't think he did anything wrong by talking to them.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[Lovedtodeath]

 

OP - I would definitely talk to the woman, in person, and explain that 1) you have been in a similar situation in your own marriage and 2) you and your husband both believe that her DH had her permission to speak with the two of you about the issues. Offer to lend support if it is wanted, but make sure she knows that she can trust you and your DH not to talk with anyone else about their marriage and that you will not pry uninvited.

:iagree:

[CarolfromIL]

I still believe flowers, a letter and maybe you and your husband drive over to personally apologize is the best course.

[myfunnybunch]

ETA: A further thought.. if I decided to go around.. what about taking some flowers or something, and saying that I just wanted her to know that I cared?

 

Because you know and she knows you know and so on, I think it would be lovely if you visited briefly with flowers and a note saying, "If you need a listening ear, please feel free to call me any time" with your phone number and email. That lets her know you care without forcing a conversation, and gives her an opening if she does want your help and support.

 

Cat

[mytwomonkeys]

haven't read all of the replies. yes, i would talk to her in person. i would not text, as emails and texts are hard to interpret sometimes and the tone isn't easy to read. you did nothing wrong. it sounds like she could use a non-judgmental and understanding friend right now. with your own experience, i bet god can really use you in this difficult time. hugs to you.

[Abigail4476]

I would give her a call and ask her out for coffee and dessert. Your treat. In the midst of (hopefully) friendly chit-chat, broach the subject.

 

"Hey, the other day when your husband came to our house to talk to us, we were unaware that he was talking to us without your consent. I apologize for any further pain that has caused for you, but I just want you to know that our marriage has gone through infidelity as well, and if you want to talk, we're available. If you don't want to talk about that, I completely understand because it's painful and embarrassing, and I would love to just be friends and get to know you better."

 

Smile. A pat on her hand, maybe. Order more dessert if necessary. If she doesn't want to talk about *It*, drop it 100%, never to be brought up again without her lead, and ask her where she purchased her beautiful shoes. Or something equally banal.

 

If she refuses the invitation to go out or meet with you in person, then call her and talk to her over the phone. Don't send an email or text message. It's too impersonal for the personal nature of the faux pas.

[QueenCat]

At minimum, I would let her know that she can be assured that you will not share what you have learned about her marriage with anyone else. I would also let her know that you are available if she ever wants to talk.

[8circles]

Without getting into who's at fault or who assumed what or who should have thought differently, since it's too late for all that, I think I agree with kalanamak about sending a nice letter. Actually, I'd probably prefer an email--they feel easier to ignore if I wanted to pretend none of it had ever happened. If I was in that woman's shoes, I would NOT want to speak to you about it, either in person or on the phone. I might appreciate a note from you to assure me that you would never speak of it to anyone else, or even to me unless I wanted to talk about it at some point in the far distant future. I think that would relieve my mind a bit, even if what I really wanted was just to get in my time machine and go back and throttle that guy before he could call your DH in the first place :glare:

 

That's just my .02.

 

Oh, and I forgot to also say: :grouphug: I'm sorry your DH has put you in this kind of position over the years and that this guy has put you in an awkward spot as well.

 

You're right about that - I'm going to go edit my post - I didn't mean for it to sound as it does.

[8circles]

I am sorry, but I feel like the husband has every right to talk to his friends about his life and ask for advice for his marriage. I don't think he did anything wrong by talking to them.

 

On the one hand I agree with you but on the other - I don't. If I were the wife in this situation I would feel humiliated all over again if my husband told others without my knowledge. I feel like it would be putting his own needs above mine - yet again. He may have wanted to talk about it to someone - which I get - but he should have chosen to talk with a professional - it was his [silent] burden to bear IMO.

[Hedgehog]

Thanks so much for all your thoughts. DH and I have read them all and discussed a lot - we value your different perspectives.

 

I brought this situation up with a long distance friend, in the same way that I've explained it here (no personal details etc.) and asked for their advice too. Their point of view was that it would be best to wait for a while, and see if God makes it plain to us what we should do. Also, they recommended that we ask the man in question what exactly he has said to his wife about us and our conversation (so that we know what she knows), and her response to whatever he said, not necessarily inviting him around or anything, but just taking an opportunity if we get one to speak with him alone. Then we would be in a better position to make a choice about what we do, if anything.

 

The one thing that has come to us this evening is that one of the reasons why we were surprised that our friend spoke with us without his wife's prior knowledge was because we see them regularly, at different places. We are not sure whether it occurred to him that by revealing the full story to us, it would make our social interactions rather difficult. Whether this is because he is thoughtless, or because he genuinely thought his wife wouldn't mind us knowing (obviously if so he was mistaken), I really don't know. We don't feel responsible for him telling us, with or without his wife's knowledge, and we don't believe that we've butted into anything or actively intruded into their lives. If I can help my friend - the wife - I would be glad to, but it won't be because I went and opened their closet and took their skeleton out for an inspection.

 

I am liking the suggestion of sending her some flowers at some point with a brief card with wording similar to CathieC's suggestion, and including that I am praying for her. I guess I am a somewhat reserved person and I do wonder whether going around or asking to go out for coffee is a bit much for either of us.. but certainly if she wants to talk to me at any time that is the kind of thing we would do.

[Gooblink]

I am sorry, but I feel like the husband has every right to talk to his friends about his life and ask for advice for his marriage. I don't think he did anything wrong by talking to them.

 

 

:iagree: I also feel you should invite her to lunch or to get together face-to-face. She will either accept or turn you down. If she accepts, then maybe you will have the opportunity to share your story, which sounds like a real testimony of forgiveness and trusting God (I admire you). If she declines, then no harm done.

 

:grouphug: God bless you in this! God can heal broken marriages.

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree: I also feel you should invite her to lunch or to get together face-to-face. She will either accept or turn you down. If she accepts, then maybe you will have the opportunity to share your story, which sounds like a real testimony of forgiveness and trusting God (I admire you). If she declines, then no harm done.

 

:grouphug: God bless you in this! God can heal broken marriages.

:iagree:My husband and I are ridiculously close.:D

[Frontier Mom]

I would talk to her, just to let her know that you understand better than most what she is feeling. I would take her cues. If she is reserved about it then make it a quick "I know what you've been through. I'm here if you ever want to talk" and then leave it at that. Hopefully she will be open. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: The longer you wait the harder it will be to approach each other.

[AuntieM]

I'm a letter person. I would send her a kindly letter, being as frank as you care to about your situation, promising her no gossip, giving sympathy but making sure you are clear you are not "feeling sorry for her".

 

I like letters because I can be carefully clear about what I want to say AND the person can look it over in 3, 6, or 60 months down the line and may be "ready" to read it then.

 

:grouphug:

 

This is a great idea.

 

Hopefully she will realize that her *husband* is the one she should be mad at, not you! I can imagine how I might feel, were I in her shoes.... I'd be positively mortified. A thoughtfully written letter would be welcome. But to just run into you in the old familiar places and expect business as usual? Nah. I would purposely avoid you. Sorry, that's just me. And dh, well, he'd be in the dog house a good long time.

 

:grouphug: You are in a tough spot. Very frustrating when you surely didn't put yourself there. FWIW, you sound like a very generous spirit and I hope she comes around, I think you'd be a great friend to her through all this.

[HeidiKC]

I'm a letter person. I would send her a kindly letter, being as frank as you care to about your situation, promising her no gossip, giving sympathy but making sure you are clear you are not "feeling sorry for her".

 

I like letters because I can be carefully clear about what I want to say AND the person can look it over in 3, 6, or 60 months down the line and may be "ready" to read it then.

 

:grouphug:

 

I like this. I'd make it more of a short notecard kind of thing. Short. Let her know you've been there, that you will keep her situation to yourselves, that you're praying for them. I'm not sure I'd say anything about being open if she needs to talk. That's probably pretty obvious, and if she is really angry and uncomfortable about this, that might make her more so and want to avoid you in case she thought you might bring it up later or something. In fact maybe somehow let her know that you won't bring it up since you're not sure it's something she wants to discuss. That lets her know that if she does want to bring it up, fine. Otherwise she doesn't need to worry about it.

[HeidiKC]

I know a lot of people have suggested flowers, but I really don't know that I'd like that if I were in her position. It might make it seem like she's being pitied (I know you wouldn't mean that), and it might make it more embarrasing and she'd then have to acknowledge the flowers for a thank-you when maybe she doesn't want to speak to you. Also, the flowers might be a daily reminder of the painful and embarrasing situation.

 

I also think that the coffee suggestion is a bit much. You could always just say at the end of your letter to her - "please know that I'm always available for a cup of coffee if you need some girl time" or something.

 

Good luck - this is hard!