If you've tried using Sonlight in the past, but then jumped ship...

[Virginia Heather]

will you please tell me why??

 

I'm thinking about trying Core 3 w/ my boys (I've heard so many wonderful things about it and my own history plans are not working out so well, lol), but I'm not yet convinced that Sonlight is for me/us. So... please share-- if you've tried it in the past, or looked in to it but went another route, what turned you off to it? Why did it not work for you??

[Michelle T]

also done the same with WinterPromise.

 

For me, I just don't like sticking to someone else's schedule for history. There are always books I end up not liking, or books I want to add, and I tweak the schedule so much.

 

I guess it's just a personal preference for me, but I would rather decide what to read, rather than end up with books DS or I don't like.

 

My one beef with Sonlight specifically is so many of the books they schedule are too advanced for the age range their core is geared at. But core 3 is probably their best, other than the Landmark book they use as a spine.

Michelle T

[dalynnrmc]

I agree, the books were too advanced (and, not realizing that, I was using Core6 with a 9yo...) and there weren't enough hands-on projects. They could've at least suggested some. LOL

 

It took me several weeks to figure out how the IG was set up, but once I "got" it, I loved the schedule. It was just... the rest of it that didn't work for us. LOL We're waiting on WP to arrive now!

[Mesa]

The books were too mature for my son and they were often pretty depressing. No activities planned or suggested.

We too are waiting on our Winter Promise order to arrive.

[TrixieB]

My one beef with Sonlight specifically is so many of the books they schedule are too advanced for the age range their core is geared at.

:iagree:

[mom2g2b]

I have used Sonlight off and on. It is great having things laid out for me. Some of the books were too mature for the intended age. We most recently finished Core 5. My dd was 12 when we did it. The Core 5 science is working well with my 10 yr old son.

 

Vickie

[OnTheBrink]

I also thought the books were too mature and I thought they moved through books too fast.

[MJP]

I did like core 3 (except the Landmark book--we used Abeka 4). We also did pre-K and K. By core 4 there were books that I wouldn't choose; I wanted a young-earth perspective; I wanted the Bible more integrated.

I would not have passed the twenty-some reasons not to use Sonlight, but I thought I could tweak it. We switched to MFW.

[Lovedtodeath]

Could I get more info on the Landmark book? I am planning way ahead of time. :tongue_smilie: Will start Core 3 in 5th grade, 10 years old.

[Stacy in NJ]

I've bought and used parts of cores 2 and 3. While I like many of the read aloud and reader selections, I do think the schedule is full. It leaves little time to do reading from other non-history focused sources. Any given day may include both a fiction and non-fiction read aloud, as well as a reader assignment. Soo, If you spend 30 minutes each on the read alouds (including some discussion via the questions provided) and your student's reader assignment takes 30 minutes, or so, your kid is devoting an hour and 30 minutes DAILY to history. Now if you're not doing any other lit program, than perhaps that's fine, but I found I wanted to read and discuss books NOT related specifically to history. It's tough to schedule science in there, as well.

 

Another issues I had was related to the what I would call the glorification of the "other". By this I mean, I felt there was a somewhat condescending and shallow attitudes about other cultures. I think some people would disagree with this characterization, but I was sometimes a bit put-off by a kind of romantic view couched in a Christain perspective. It's a noble savage kinda thing.:001_huh:

 

Also, as others have mentioned, the book selections tend toward the "heavy". There are a few light and funny selections, I'm thinking of By the Great Horn Spoon, that we're reading right now, but not many.

 

One thing I do appreciate about Sonlight is that they seem very consistent in their world view and have taken great pains in choosing quality materials that reflect those views.

 

Sooo, I would say I'm a sometimes user, sometimes satisfied, sometimes not, Sonlight customer.:D

 

HTH, Stacy

[unity]

I've done Core PreK, K, 3, and 4. For one and two I sorta did my own thing, and next year I'm just totally not psyched about what SL does after 4, so we're going with TOG next year. It will be easier to combine my kiddos, too.

 

But I have to say that I thought Cores 3 and 4 were wonderful. So many of the books were fabulous. My boys (8 yo) were strong readers, so even the "advanced readers" did not add unduly to their daily schedule. A few of the books were indeed difficult age-wise. I'm thinking of Swift Rivers (ugh! that was a bear to get through) and The Witch of Blackbird Pond, for example. However, they were great books, but it was sometimes hard to keep their attention and it did take us a long time to get through them.

 

Regarding Landmark, we all really enjoyed it. The first few chapters were hard to deal with, but having read the whole book to the boys, I think it has a lot of value and we learned a lot. When we are back to that time period, I plan to have my boys reread Landmark. I think it's worth it. A very interesting history book--and history is NOT my "thing."

 

It's true there are no hands-on suggestions. That was a drawback. I also didn't really ever use the questions to go along with the books. I'm not sure if it's just because I like to do my own thing, or if they were just not useful. They are not really organized very well, in my opinion. I am totally praying that TOG is organized better.

 

We also did Sonlight LA to go along with the program. It was fun and effective. I think their writing has come a long way. There were times when the assignments did not match the reading, and that was annoying, but not a crisis and they may have finished the problem.

 

About romanticizing the "noble savage," I'm not so sure. I especially think of "Aztecs, Incans, and Mayans" which was very critical especially of Aztec culture. I found that to be a fascinating read as well (although a sensitive 3rd grader would really have trouble with it), and my boys still remember much of it even through we read it about a year and a half ago. The missionary books might be more romantic; I'm not sure since we usually skip all of those.

 

Really, I think Cores 3 and 4 make a great program for a two-year survey of American history. Although I'm jumping ship, I expect to be re-assigning many of the books in future years, either to my younger children or as re-reads to the ones who finished the program.

 

There are so many great programs out there; I'm sure you won't go wrong if you go with something that looks great!

[runningirl71]

For me, I just don't like sticking to someone else's schedule for history. There are always books I end up not liking, or books I want to add, and I tweak the schedule so much.

 

I guess it's just a personal preference for me, but I would rather decide what to read, rather than end up with books DS or I don't like.

 

This is me too. I have used Sonlight K-2 and am currently using SL 7 with my 7th grader. Many of the books in the younger years, my son did not get "into" although that doesn't mean we didn't learn anything from them! I just get frustrated when there is whining over a book when we could go to the library and pick an "equivalent" he would like.

 

My beef with SL in the lower grades is I didn't think there was enough LA instruction. It was very "natural" and we needed more. Specifically when my son was learning to read. In K, it was a basic program, just getting familiar with letters and sounds. And then in 1st grade, it all of a sudden jumped to having to know how to put those sounds together and read simple words. I had to use How to Get Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons as a bridge.

 

This year I returned to SL b/c I had to pull ds out of a private school. We pulled him out at the end of the 3rd quarter and are finishing out the school year with SL 7. I needed an IG, as I didn't have time to pull my own program together (nor the energy) and I was familiar with SL, plus ds is a voracious reader. Compared to what he has been doing in the past (TWTM recommendations for 5th-6th) and then 3/4 of a year at a classical private school, SL seems very "lite" to me. There doesn't seem to be much depth for ds's grade level. And, I really don't like the writing aspect. "Pick a topic for a research project this next week" is really not enough for us. Give us a couple topics, let us choose from a list, and then guide us through the process, don't leave it ALL up to us!

 

Our experience in a nutshell!:)

[Momof2kids]

We did SL for pre k, k, core 1 and we got 2 weeks into core 2 before we decided we had enough. SL had way too much reading for us and the books were too advanced.

 

I looked at The Landmark History of the American People at my library (was considering core 3 for my 5th grader) and there's no way she would sit through that. We looked at it together. We also used The Story of USA Book 1 for a short time. Also, pretty boring. Read a page, then fill out a worksheet.

 

I read Incans, Aztecs & Mayans on my own becasue I was interested. I didn't think my daughter needed that much grewsome (spelling?) info at this time.

 

If you are able and have a good library, look up all the books and then go look at them. Ask yourself if you can see yourself trudging (that's what it felt like to us) through these books. If the books don't appeal to you, then you know SL is not for you. If you get excited about the books and think your kids would (THEY have to like it, so many moms want to do SL but their kids don't click with it and mom ends us dissappointed), then you know it's worth a try.

[michellem]

We have used Sonlight Pre-k, K, 1 and 2. I loved them all. Then we got to Sonlight 3. Although my kids like history it was definately too much. It just doesn't seem right to me, to read "A Witch of Blackbird Pond" to a 3rd grader. It is a great book, but much better in middle school. Even if they can get most of the book, why not just read books better suited for 3rd and 4th grade and save the heavier books for the later years. We abandoned Sonlight in Core 3. In fact it is in my garage and for sale right now if you decide to go that way. I have the 5 day program with the regular and the advanced readers. Blessings,

Michelle

[Colleen]

So... please share-- if you've tried it in the past, or looked in to it but went another route, what turned you off to it? Why did it not work for you??

 

Some reasons people opt not to use Sonlight, or set it aside, include:

 

~ Don't care for the schedule

~ Consider the books too advanced

~ Desire more hands-on learning activities

~ Prefer more emphasis on classical education

~ Prefer a four-year history rotation ala TWTM

~ Find it difficult to use with children of varying ages

~ Don't care for the upper-level SL Cores

 

The replies you've received have touched upon some of these reasons. I can only offer the opposite perspective, as I've been using Sonlight's history program for over 7 years now. The reading has never been more than we can handle, and Sonlight continues to be a highlight of our homeschooling journey.:)

[G5052]

 

Some reasons people opt not to use Sonlight, or set it aside, include:

 

~ Don't care for the schedule

~ Consider the books too advanced

~ Desire more hands-on learning activities

~ Prefer more emphasis on classical education

~ Prefer a four-year history rotation ala TWTM

~ Find it difficult to use with children of varying ages

~ Don't care for the upper-level SL Cores

 

The replies you've received have touched upon some of these reasons. I can only offer the opposite perspective, as I've been using Sonlight's history program for over 7 years now. The reading has never been more than we can handle, and Sonlight continues to be a highlight of our homeschooling journey.:)

 

I agree. We're on our fifth Core (Core 3), and it's been great all-around. I do use a Core closer to the age of my younger one to "handle" the mature themes, and I use books-on-tape where possible for the read-alouds. Landmark and the more difficult books have been fine for us.

[vmsurbat]

like so many others, we did not use it ahead of the game--my kids were ready for it. There *are* lots of books--we liked that because we could drop anything that wasn't on target (but still worth having in the home library).

 

For hands-on, the very best, easiest thing is to order Hands n Hearts kits. They are great! My youngest is 12 and she has been enjoying them for the past 2-3 years....

 

Also, the Landmark book is an excellent history book that deals with social history--how is America different (especially wrt to the "Old World") and what effect that has had on the world. Very interesting. The beginning of the book deals with the Puritans and Pilgrim's motivation for coming to the New World--something not immediately intriguing to most 3rd graders. It is easy to summarize those chapters. (For the record, we just took those chapters very slowly--Charlotte Mason-style--giving just enough to grasp a new idea.)

 

The rest of the book, particularly the part scheduled for Core 4, deals with the many innovations that Americans brought to the world (skyscrapers, transcontinental railroads, flight, etc.)

[readwithem]

For me, I just don't like sticking to someone else's schedule for history. There are always books I end up not liking, or books I want to add, and I tweak the schedule so much.

 

 

:iagree:

[readwithem]

We did SL K-4th grade. I discovered WTM around then and we haven't looked back. One thing that has stuck with me through the years is how gracious SWB is to allowing us to discuss other methods of schooling our children, and has even allowed her own method and book to be torn apart on these boards. The owner of SL (possibly former owner as I think the company is going through a transition of ownership) was very defensive of everything they sold, whether it was a SL original product or not.

 

I know most people see SL's readiness to change their curricula as a good thing - and for the most part I agree - but they end up revamping LA every.single.year. I wish they would just admit they can't reinvent the wheel and acknowledge there are others who are doing a better job (R&S for example).

[Night Elf]

I love the concept of Sonlight. I love lots and lots of books. But when actually using the Core programs as a main school program, I felt like it was lacking so much because my children are not suited to a literature based method. Even when we enjoyed the readings, I was often left with an uneasy feeling of not doing enough. I kept telling myself that I could go to the library and choose any book to read and discuss with my children so why was I trying to follow the SL schedule? The mapwork they offered was only mildly interesting. It could be so much more! I'll admit my children have absolutely loved the markable map. They play with it whenever it's off the shelf.

 

While I love sharing books with my children, we are just more inclined towards a traditional educational approach. We like doing something with the material we're studying: questions for the child to answer in a journal; hands-on projects to put the material in a visual form; game-type worksheets to reinforce words and concepts; etc.

 

I only have experience with Cores 1 through 3, but we never enjoyed the pace of the books. My kids prefer reading one book at a time. It kind of made them nuts to have several books going and reading only 1 or 2 chapters at a time. We never stayed on schedule because we'd read the books the way we wanted to. And I found that once I got off schedule with one book, it sort of ruined the whole schedule for me. The last Core I did was Core 1+2 with my dd10 when she was 9 years old. We dropped the schedule in the first two weeks and just read the books she wanted to read at her chosen pace. It seemed like pleasure reading, not education.

[Julie]

I agree with the book assessment...........there are things I really liked about Sonlight, but I felt like all we ever did was read. I recently switched to Winter Promise, my kdis like the books better, notebooking and the hands on activities.

 

I will tell you I don't follow either one to the letter. If I don't like, or can't find a book we skip it or do something else.

[Virginia Heather]

Wow!! Thank you so much for all your thoughtful responses! You've given me much food for thought, which is exactly what I wanted and needed. I'll start praying! And then I'll do a bit more research to prevent an impulsive decision... that never works out well for me!

 

Blessings!

Heather

[Bambam]

1. The schedule is too inflexible for me. If we want to spend more time on a particular topic (i.e. maybe butterflies in Pre-K), the schedule simply does not allow you time "during school" to do this. You have three options 1) stop all school and just go spend some time on where your child's interest and curiousity is leading or 2)stop just that subject and mess up the checkmarks on the schedule (on 'schedule' for everything but science) or 3)do afterschooling (but aren't we homeschoolers??)

 

2. Some poor book choices. My kids really can't stand those Usborne books they used for science when we did elementary. We would read them and discuss things, but they wouldn't remember much of it later. We switched to living books, so now there is an emotional connection. They recall what they read. My oldest used to complain regularly about those Usborne books.

 

3. Speed. The schedule has you going through those books too fast. Not that you can't do it, because you can, but because there is very little recollection a year or two later. We have a friend who does Sonlight very much by the schedule. They did Marco Polo one year before we did Marco. We did a different book (Landmark) while they did the Sonlight recommendation. They finished Marco in 2-3 weeks. We only did one chapter a week for probably 25 weeks. We came to really know Marco and anticipate his next adventure. The next year (one year after we finished Marco and two years after the Sonlight girl finished Marco) we had a class on Marco Polo at our local museum. The Sonlight girl didn't have the first clue who Marco Polo was or what he did. My dd could tell you many of his adventures/discoveries. I found this typical of our Sonlight friends. My dd, three years later, still will talk about Marco and make comparisons to things she is learning or seeing now. The Sonlight girl is smart, but they go so very fast she is on to another subject before she has time to assimilate the information already presented. Reminds me of Sesame Street --- onto another topic before your child has grasped the first topic.

 

I do often wish for the Sonlight book notes, comments, questions, etc. Not enough to go back to Sonlight though. We mostly follow AmblesideOnline and are very pleased with it.

 

I'm glad we have so many choices as homeschoolers so we can find what works well for us!

[Lovedtodeath]

I started to get the K program but instead went through the books and picked about half of them. In the future, I plan to do the same thing, buying all of the History, but only half the read alouds and readers and get the IG used for 15-20 dollars so it doesn't seem like a waste. You could also buy the combined year (1+2, 3+4, Alt. 6) and then stretch it out to complete over 2 years if the crammed full schedule is a problem.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Colleen]

The schedule has you going through those books too fast. Not that you can't do it, because you can, but because there is very little recollection a year or two later.

 

As with all things, it's just going to differ from one child (or family) to the next. What you describe certainly isn't the case for my boys, nor is it true of others I know who use Sonlight. Different strokes; as you say, it's nice that we have a variety of choices.:)

[Colleen]

One thing that has stuck with me through the years is how gracious SWB is to allowing us to discuss other methods of schooling our children, and has even allowed her own method and book to be torn apart on these board.

 

The same is true of the Holzmanns and Sonlight. I'm flummoxed that someone would imply otherwise, to be honest. Time and again over the years I've been amazed at the freedom SL board participants have to critique SL products and policies, and at the wide variety of other methods and materials that are discussed there. Many (actually most) of us who use SL do so only in part, or alongside other, non-SL products. Never once, in 7+ years as a SL customer, have I sensed any defensiveness on the part of SL in response to that fact. I appreciate the willingness of both Susan W.B. and John and Sarita, et al to allow for such a wide variety of discussion of their boards.

[TravelingChris]

I used Sonlight for two years,years 3 and 4 and pre-k, K. This was at the same time. I realized that I wouldn't be able to do 2 cores at one time. At some point, I would have to be doing three. My kids were 4 1/2 and 3 1/4 years apart and ended up 5 grades and 4 grades spacing. If your kids are widely spaced, it doesn't work.

[Becki in IN]

Can't help you too much? I love SL. We used K-4. We won't be using it this year because of the baby. The girls want to do BJU DVDs. That's totally not me. I'm hoping they will want to go back, but when they do, we will have to split up and do different cores because there is too much of an ability difference between them now. (Youngest dd is special needs.)

[Heather in VA]

I have used Sonlight. I never had trouble with the book levels or the pace at all. What has eventually led to us finding something else was two-fold. First, my middle dd hates history. She despises it. So an entire program that is devoted to history is like torture for her. Second, for my oldest, I wanted something a bit more structured academically to keep us both on track. By that I mean it got too easy for her to just read the books and I got lax about requiring discussion and writing. This is not a function of the program but it's something I knew enough about myself to know that I needed something different rather than more promises to myself that I'd do those things.

 

I may use Sonlight again someday but those are the reasons I'm not right now.

 

Heather

[Melissa in CA]

I have used Sonlight Cores 1, 2, 3, and 4 with youngest son. Cores 6, 100, 300(history only) and 400 with older boys.

 

My oldest graduated last year.

Middle son is graduating this year and is currently using the history & Historical fiction portion of Core 300.

 

Here is our SL experience:

 

My youngest son loved Cores 1 and 2, but we added in SOTW. Somewhere in the middle of Core 3 he began to not like history anymore. I was a bit surprised because we were very much looking forward to Core 3 after all the glowing reviews we had read. He was in 4th grade. To fix the problem with the Core, I began to get more non-fiction history books from the library... More 'picture' type books to liven up Landmark a bit. Core 3 is severely lacking in any type of visuals. It is reading, reading, reading. These supplemental books helped immensely, but I basically had to throw out the Core 3 schedule. I then noticed when shopping for the following year that Winter Promise contained all the same type of books that we had supplemented Core 3 with. Visual history books more at grade level than Sonlight's. Plus, lots of activities. Already having Core 4 on-hand, I bought Winter Promises American Story II and have used a Core 4/WP combo this year. It's been a good year.

 

If I were to go back in time, I would pick Winter Promise instead of Core 3. The books in American Story 1 are more engaging for a 3rd grader. Winter Promise's schedule is light on reading compared to SL (due to the selection of activities I believe), so I personally would add in more readers and read-alouds. I would not use Core 3 again. I would choose some of the SL reading books though, but they are not exclusive to SL...meaning they are not Sonlights books, Sonlight just uses them in their history schedules. ;)

 

I am leaving both SL and WP and moving on to TOG. TOG has more of what I am looking for in a history curriculum....more independent learning, and plenty of discussion.

 

I also, aside from SL's Core 100, found SL's high school cores just plain difficult. To get any type of discussion going with my boys, I either had to read the history with them, or just guess that what they were telling me was correct. The Instructor Guide, though massive and quite overwhelming, held nothing in it to help me teach or lead them in an intelligent discussion. Core 400 was horrid!! I don't know that my boys learned anything about Government that they could actually grasp with complete understanding. Most of the history/bible reading was over our heads. I had decided on Core 400 for the government AND the American Lit, thinking that SL would offer analysis on the Lit books. HA!! They gave me nothing. In order to discuss and analyze the books with them I would have had to read each and every book myself. I was VERY disappointed. I was able to fix the problem by using BJU HomeSat's American Lit DVDs alongside some of the SL American Lit selections ....BJU's Lit DVDs are fantastic!!

 

Anyhow, long story short...I know from using SL in highschool that it is not a good fit for analysis and discussion; for getting my child to actually voice his opinion, analyze, and discuss it with me. So I do not plan to use it any longer. I might possibly use Core 100 again if I am not happy with the depth of TOG in covering American History, but I'm pretty sure TOG is going to cover all the bases for us. I have year 1 on-hand and I love what I see.

 

Personally, I would not choose core 3 or 4 if you have visual hands-on type children. If they LOVE to be read too, and need no pictures to 'see' the history, and do not like activities or crafts...then SL might be perfect for you. There are more visuals in the higher cores such as 6 and 100, and definitely Core 300...just no discussion & analysis questions which I feel is pretty important in the upper grades.

 

Take all this with a grain of salt...it is only our experience, yours might be entirely different. :D

[Lisawa]

We have used Core 2, 6, 3 and 5.... I don’t think I "jumped" ship, but I wanted something like SL just wanted something more..... I liked SL although combining the 2 cores just about killed me schedule wise.... I liked the cores we used... and we didn’t use every book, or every read aloud....

 

The last SL core we used was in 2001?? and I know a lot has changed since then... I think it was 2001?? I used SL, we used BF, Diana Warings materials... again not in this order... I can’t remember) Jennifer Stewards stuff, back to SL... I was on the literature based curriculum roller coaster! *Ü* Oh and used Classical Christian homeschooling website as a guide for one year….before I read TWTM…… I didnt "follow" it, but got a lot of ideas....Ive been all over the map some years…

 

Lisa

[4arrows]

Mostly because the books in Core 3 and 4 were just too heavy for my dc at those ages. WP books were better for us. I still used SL for my 11th grader, and may go back for Cores 6 and 7. I evaluate what we are doing every year, and see if what they have fits it.

[rafiki]

.

[Bee]

I love Sonlight.My oldest dd likes some of the books but doesn't want to discuss them or do the comprehension questions or writing.I thought I'd like a curriculum that focuses so heavily on history as it does in Cores 3-100 but we start feeling bogged down by all history all the time.It starts to feel like we don't have time to read books about anything else.I hope to have my children read many of the Sonlight books but I'm not sure that we'll use the IGs any more.This year I 've just felt more and more convinced that using it isn't right for us.I wish it were.I love history but my children don't share that enthusiasm.

[Annie Laurie]

 

As with all things, it's just going to differ from one child (or family) to the next. What you describe certainly isn't the case for my boys, nor is it true of others I know who use Sonlight. Different strokes; as you say, it's nice that we have a variety of choices.:)

 

 

It hasn't been an issue for us either. My oldest often amazes me with details I have forgotten. He knows so much much about history, and I credit Sonlight.

[Jules in MI]

I didn't like the LA...very boring for K, and too many creative writing assignments for my 2nd grader who isn't a "natural" writer. He needed more instruction on writing mechanics, which there were none in this curriculum, at least LA 2. Also, it is ALOT of reading. My 2nd grader devours anything I give him, but as a parent, I don't have 1-2 hrs a day for reading time, I just don't. We tried breaking up the reading throughout the day, otherwise we did over an hour of reading first thing in the morning, then they didn't want to any seatwork because they had been sitting so long. Also, NO activities...BORING.

 

As for the individual readers, they are great. I love their book lists and use them to get my sons their library books. If I were to go w/ another all inclusive curriculum, I would go w/ MFW or Winter Promise.

 

Some people LOVE Sonlight, so you need to "make it your own." I have a friend who just did Core 3 w/ her daughter this year and they LOVED it. Starting w/ Core 3 the history, readers and read alouds all integrate, I've heard people who have not liked Core C, 1 and 2 and then love it starting w/ Core 3.

[Jen in DE]

I like having things laid out, but I was frustrated that all of the guides to the sonlight books focused mainly on comprehension. Not a lot of critical thinking. I also don't like that if you get behind in history, or want to do the readers in a different order, it messes up the language arts. I like to have things laid out for me, but be able to make choices as to when I would like to do something (not a strict order). Many of the books in Core 3 were good, but some were just plain BORING. I now use their list and pick good books from them, but don't bother with their whole curriculum.