Paintedlady Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm working with the boy I tutor (he goes to public school) and we're going over his homework. I tutor him in math but occasionally help with other subjects if needed. He shows me a page he has to read about Gandhi and a question sheet to go with it. I asked him if he's read it yet, and he says no, he's not supposed to read it until he answers the first 2 questions. Hmmm, I'm wondering why they would have him answer questions without reading the passage first. :confused: So I look at the two questions he supposed to answer before reading the passage. Here they are: 1.) What question would you like to ask about the person in this passage? 2.) What prediction would you make about this passage? :confused: :confused: :confused: Huh? Why would a class of 11 & 12 year olds have a question or a prediction about something they haven't yet read? I asked him if they'd been discussing Gandhi in class and he said he'd never heard of him before and had no idea who he was. I just thought it was strange and once again made me glad my kids are not a part of this school system. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 And we are positive he had the instructions correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hmmm, having a 12 year old boy myself, and having interacted with some of his friends, I would have to "guess" that the boy probably left out of pertinent details to you. Not on purpose, probably, but because he "forgot" or just didn't pay full attention. My son does that type of stuff all of the time and frankly, the boy is smart, really smart, IMHO. But yeah, not paying attention to life's details, either it is a genetic thing or a boy thing, if not both. I was talking to a mom of a boy on my son's basketball team, and she was telling me similiar stories about her own son and the details of life he will miss or forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in Austin Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Former school teacher here: My guess is that he understands the directions accurately. "Pre-reading" skills and "attention getters" are part of the trendy pedagogy these days, and that is what those questions are. I know it is stupid. I'm not claiming it isn't. It is just that these things are common. I doubt he misunderstood the directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauranc Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Former school teacher here: My guess is that he understands the directions accurately. "Pre-reading" skills and "attention getters" are part of the trendy pedagogy these days, and that is what those questions are. I know it is stupid. I'm not claiming it isn't. It is just that these things are common. I doubt he misunderstood the directions. I agree... My mother is a teacher (middle school.. she just subs now), and this is definitely the kinds of questions the kids get at that age. "pre reading" stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I would hope that just possibly the boy misunderstood something, forgot some directions, or is completely mistaken and is supposed to do some reading about the subject material first. But, in our area, I have done some tutoring as well and have seen this kind of assignment. It makes no sense to me and I cannot imagine what the educational value is but the lame excuse I have been given is that it is "helping" the children to be come good a "guessing" for tests by trying to draw conclusions with very little actual data or any fundamental understanding of a reading passage. HUH??? Really??? I was hoping this was not widespread and only indigenous to our local, ridiculous middle school. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I hope he is missing some vital piece of information. I did ask him to please clarify with his teacher exactly what he's supposed to do with those questions and let me know next week. If there were a title to the passage, like a book title for instance, he might be able to ascertain what the material was about, but with just a person's name as the title, there's no way to guess. Interesting to hear some of your experiences. Thanks for the insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdeno Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think it is just a simple pre-reading strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I hope he is missing some vital piece of information. I did ask him to please clarify with his teacher exactly what he's supposed to do with those questions and let me know next week. If there were a title to the passage, like a book title for instance, he might be able to ascertain what the material was about, but with just a person's name as the title, there's no way to guess. Interesting to hear some of your experiences. Thanks for the insight. I'm working with the boy I tutor (he goes to public school) and we're going over his homework. I tutor him in math but occasionally help with other subjects if needed. He shows me a page he has to read about Gandhi and a question sheet to go with it. I asked him if he's read it yet, and he says no, he's not supposed to read it until he answers the first 2 questions. Hmmm, I'm wondering why they would have him answer questions without reading the passage first. :confused: So I look at the two questions he supposed to answer before reading the passage. Here they are: 1.) What question would you like to ask about the person in this passage? What did they do that was important? 2.) What prediction would you make about this passage?I will learn something about a person named Gandhi. :confused: :confused: :confused: Huh? Why would a class of 11 & 12 year olds have a question or a prediction about something they haven't yet read? I asked him if they'd been discussing Gandhi in class and he said he'd never heard of him before and had no idea who he was. I just thought it was strange and once again made me glad my kids are not a part of this school system. :blink: Maybe just over thinking a simple answer to a pre-reading question? I would answer as above. You are right though it makes no sense to ask these types of questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 1.) What question would you like to ask about the person in this passage? What did they do that was important? 2.) What prediction would you make about this passage?I will learn something about a person named Gandhi. It's a handwriting assignment, in disguise. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Common pre-reading. I have seen it done in exactly this way for years. They don't expect long answers or even correct ones. It is just a guess about the book. I wouldn't even expect the student to spend over 2 minutes, including the writing on these questions. There is no right or wrong answer. When my kids were younger, say 1 or 2nd grade, the teachers were big into guessing what the story was about by the pictures. This is just the big kid version. I have seen it done in private Christian schools, magnet schools, public schools in 2 different states, public/private hybrid, and dd12's non-faith based private school. I would say it is very common in current education trends across the board. LOL Edited February 10, 2011 by Tap, tap, tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I remember in school that sort of thing (California public school, need I say more?) When the class was reading out loud, the teacher would stop in the middle and ask us what we thought would happen next. That was a problem for me, because I had already finished the story and was reading another one from the text book :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I remember in school that sort of thing (California public school, need I say more?) When the class was reading out loud, the teacher would stop in the middle and ask us what we thought would happen next. That was a problem for me, because I had already finished the story and was reading another one from the text book :P I remember stuff like that. We'd get a book assigned and they'd say read chapter 1-3 (for example), and I'd go home read chapters 1-3 and keep going, if I thought it was an interesting book. Then, when you get back to class they berate you for reading ahead. :001_huh: Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It's a technique straight out of "What Smart Students Know", though I'm sure it's not unique to that book. I bought it for my 12yo's FUTURE reference (and I was curious), but I don't see how it's very relevant at that age, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 From my PS experience with my older kids I suspect it's one of those 'pre-reading' strategies. My 12 yo 6th grader has these kind of questions in SCIENCE. Look at the picture of the volcano. What do you think will happen next.... Duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjlkplus3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 For those that are familiar with this, can you tell us what the *point* of it is? Why do they ask these questions? I'm sure there is some sort of rationale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I remember in school having to make predictions and and write stuff guessing what the book, "The Wind in the Willows" would be about - just from the title of the book. You know....I would *never* have guess correctly if I had to predict what Wind in the Willows was about before reading it. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 For those that are familiar with this, can you tell us what the *point* of it is? Why do they ask these questions? I'm sure there is some sort of rationale. Everyone laments that even college kids don't think critically - why? It takes training. This exercise is not pointless. It's to open the mind to what they will be reading. Pre-reading and thinking are important before beginning any new piece of literature. Who is Gandhi? What did he do that was important enough to write about? When did he do these things? Why do I have to read this stuff? Maybe some kids DO know something about Gandhi and it gets them thinking about the topic and connecting it to what they already know. Even in the "Art of Reading" by the Teaching Company, they discuss pre-reading and questioning what you already know about the work to be read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Everyone laments that even college kids don't think critically - why? It takes training. Unfortunately, it seems the more schools focus on "problem solving" and "critical thinking", the stupider the kids get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hmmm, it seems kind of strange to have to make predictions about a passage before you've read any of it. My kids had some literature books that asked you to read the title of the passage, look at the picture and the caption, and read the first paragraph, and THEN make a guess of what the story was about. That makes a lot more sense to me :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Former school teacher here: My guess is that he understands the directions accurately. "Pre-reading" skills and "attention getters" are part of the trendy pedagogy these days, and that is what those questions are. I know it is stupid. I'm not claiming it isn't. It is just that these things are common. I doubt he misunderstood the directions. :iagree: They want him to say something like, "who are you, what do you/did you do, where do you live", etc.. for question #1. For question #2 he might say, "I will find out who Gandhi is, where he lived, what he did" etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Well you ladies have opened my mind to some new ideas (as usual!). I've never seen those kind of pre-reading questions before so they just didn't make any sense to me. Still can't say I think they make a lot of sense. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlugbill Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yes, it is pre-reading. The idea is for the child to formulate some questions, some ideas before reading. That way, the child will be more curious as he reads it, increasing the comprehension level. You ask the child some questions just based upon the title or the cover of the book. For example, if there is a picture of a train on the cover, you ask if the child has ever seen a train, or been on a train and what it what like for him. Or you ask the child where he thinks the train might be going. Or who might be in the train. Part of the concept is to bring up some prior experiences so that the child will tie the material to something he already knows, making connections so he is more likely to retain the information he reads. The research says that people don't just put information into blank spaces in their brains, but they tie it to information they already have in their brains. So, you need to access that information first, so the child has something to tie the new information to. I'm a former teacher. Teachers are trained to use some questions before reading to the children. I've tried this with my dd before reading a book, and she usually tells me, "just read". She gets impatient. I'm not sure if it's because she doesn't get it and thinks it's just a waste of time, or if it's because the technique is actually working and making her even more curious and therefore impatient to hear the book. I have dropped it in my reading to my daughter now. She is naturally curious and has excellent comprehension. So, it's not necessary. But there is some reading research that backs these pre-reading strategies. That's why the schools of education teach it. And also the boy may have forgotten some of the class discussion about it. Much of what teachers say goes in one ear and out the other. Kids get so bored in school, they tune it out to a large degree. It may be useful for children who are in school or who don't have much curiosity or don't listen well. But it is interesting to me that homeschool moms don't do all the tricks like this that teachers do and yet the homeschooled kids do much better on standardized tests. I think it is because the homeschooled kids haven't lost their natural curiosity and love for learning, so they don't need all the tricks and crutches to try to get them to learn. They already want to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) But it is interesting to me that homeschool moms don't do all the tricks like this that teachers do and yet the homeschooled kids do much better on standardized tests. I think it is because the homeschooled kids haven't lost their natural curiosity and love for learning, so they don't need all the tricks and crutches to try to get them to learn. They already want to learn. I think you are on to something. My always-homeschooled sons do tend to expect that their books will be interesting or that the information will be valuable in some way. When I was in public school, I found that the interesting material was all tied into busywork. We had to have pre-reading activities, quizzes, tests, and other fussbudget assignments for everything we ever perused. I learned very young that school reading was not for enjoyment. We did have an excellent library in our town! I would check out books on many subjects, read them at my own pace, and then happily tell my mother all about what I'd read. When I became a homeschooling mother, I was absolutely delighted to learn about Charlotte Mason's language arts methods. She taught me how to use that natural desire to read and narrate in a homeschool setting. I've faithfully followed her suggestions, and my children have never become bored with silly reading-related tasks. Edited February 10, 2011 by Dulcimeramy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 That makes sense if there is a something for the kids to grab on to, but this was a single page, black and white copy with a picture and his name, so I still don't think the average 11/12 yr. old is going to come up with a prediction based on such little info. I understand the technique now, but for this particular assignment it still seems a bit far fetched. The only thing I could think of was, "Why are they making me read about this guy?" ;) Though I suspect some of you are correct in your assumption that my student missed some important piece of info in the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I would hope that just possibly the boy misunderstood something, forgot some directions, or is completely mistaken and is supposed to do some reading about the subject material first. But, in our area, I have done some tutoring as well and have seen this kind of assignment. It makes no sense to me and I cannot imagine what the educational value is but the lame excuse I have been given is that it is "helping" the children to be come good a "guessing" for tests by trying to draw conclusions with very little actual data or any fundamental understanding of a reading passage. HUH??? Really??? I was hoping this was not widespread and only indigenous to our local, ridiculous middle school. Faith The reason for it is not to get good at guessing at tests; it's to get kids to engage with the subject matter. They can't totally guess without some idea, but I'd bet there is a photo or something that the student is supposed to look at--or he's supposed to read the first paragraph. A decent question would be, "Who is Gandhi? What is he famous for?" It's just getting kids' minds ready to process the reading. Maybe not the best thing in the world, but not horrible, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 :iagree: My nephew, just turned 13 and gets these pre-reading assignment / questions all the time. He finds them frustrating for the most part, because most of the information and people are new to him. Former school teacher here: My guess is that he understands the directions accurately. "Pre-reading" skills and "attention getters" are part of the trendy pedagogy these days, and that is what those questions are. I know it is stupid. I'm not claiming it isn't. It is just that these things are common. I doubt he misunderstood the directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 My younger children (2nd and 3rd grade) are routinely given these types of questions. In addition to the questions like you saw, they are asked things like: 1. Look at the picture on the cover of the book, based upon the picture what do you think the story will be about? 2. What type of story do you think this is? I think these are questions that are supposed to help children infer meaning. Many times, children have no issue with answering fact-based questions, but really struggle with inferences (why a character did thus and so) about things in a story that aren't spelled out. I think these questions are there to help children get comfortable making inferences later in the story. FWIW, in K12, I see this type of questioning throughout the curricula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Modern education does this sort of thing all the time and from first grade onward. Children are constantly asked to evaluate and make predictions regarding subjects about which they know nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Mama Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I remember in school that sort of thing (California public school, need I say more?) When the class was reading out loud, the teacher would stop in the middle and ask us what we thought would happen next. That was a problem for me, because I had already finished the story and was reading another one from the text book :P When my dd was in ps first grade she was accused of lying (yes, the teacher actually said to her in front of the class, "Liar, liar, pants on fire.") because when asked what she thought would happen next in the story she made a correct assumption. The teacher asked if she had read the book and when my daughter said no, the teacher called her out. And that was her last year in public school. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 For those that are familiar with this, can you tell us what the *point* of it is? Why do they ask these questions? I'm sure there is some sort of rationale. Searching for pegs to hang it on. It is very unlikely that this is the first time the student has ever heard something about Gandhi, so he searches his mind for that "mental peg" and then reads the information. Gives him somewhere to hang it (so to speak) and then he is more likely to remember it. "What do you know about the subject already?" is a long-time standard in effective reading and study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 That makes sense if there is a something for the kids to grab on to, but this was a single page, black and white copy with a picture and his name, so I still don't think the average 11/12 yr. old is going to come up with a prediction based on such little info. I understand the technique now, but for this particular assignment it still seems a bit far fetched. The only thing I could think of was, "Why are they making me read about this guy?" ;) Though I suspect some of you are correct in your assumption that my student missed some important piece of info in the class. My 9yo in special ed is expected to come up with predictions about his reading based on title, picture, and the relevent vocabulary. It works to get him engaged in the passage - he can think about it some and he likes to see if he was right.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSurprise Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 A little awkward, but his teacher should have made it more clear. Most good readers make connections. The idea behind pre-reading is to teach children how to make these connections that good readers naturally make. So, that might mean: *pointing out the character's faces in the illustrations *asking how people feel about what just happened *connecting small details together...reading well is a lot like following clues, sometimes the subtle ones pass people by *noticing foreshadowling *thinking about what they know about a subject before they start *reading the title, headers, captions and putting it all together The end goal is to get students to put all the little pieces together and be thoughtful, logical readers. Not all students need this. Many take to it naturally, but not everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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