How to run off a girlfriend?

[GinaPagnato]

"If my children had friends (in fact this has happened before) who behaved inappropriately, it would be a great chance to discuss our values and expectations. Coming up against inappropriate behaviours while a child still lives at home offers an amazing opportunity for strengthening the child's resolve - I won't be around to do that when they are eighteen and away from home."

 

 

 

 

Except, we're not talking about little kids who don't share, or who whine, or hog the goldfish crackers. The behaviors that would be of concern in teenagers are more serious, and include potential long term consequences. So, while discussing the differences in values and expectations works when kids are younger, or less attached to the other individual, it's a whole other ball game when you're talking about a *dating* relationship between teenagers with hormones running all over the place.

 

I'm all for being a loving family that is willing to extend grace to those who need it (and don't we all!). We have regularly done this for young ladies and men who've been in similar situations. But by golly, I would NOT let my kids date them, that's for sure!

[Joanne]

"If my children had friends (in fact this has happened before) who behaved inappropriately, it would be a great chance to discuss our values and expectations. Coming up against inappropriate behaviours while a child still lives at home offers an amazing opportunity for strengthening the child's resolve - I won't be around to do that when they are eighteen and away from home."

 

 

 

 

Except, we're not talking about little kids who don't share, or who whine, or hog the goldfish crackers. The behaviors that would be of concern in teenagers are more serious, and include potential long term consequences. So, while discussing the differences in values and expectations works when kids are younger, or less attached to the other individual, it's a whole other ball game when you're talking about a *dating* relationship between teenagers with hormones running all over the place.

 

I'm all for being a loving family that is willing to extend grace to those who need it (and don't we all!). We have regularly done this for young ladies and men who've been in similar situations. But by golly, I would NOT let my kids date them, that's for sure!

 

Since your post centers on the reality that they are teens and therefore their life choices have more impact, meaning and risk, the fact that they are teens is also important in other areas.

 

The one I'd stress is that, developmentally, it's time to allow them, with intentional and present support, room for their choices. Much of this thread responds to facts not in evidence; that the 15 year old in question has made bad choices over and above interest in this girl. What I'd like to know is has HIS language changed? His dress? His behavior, character, values?

 

In the absence of my son changing, I would not seek to remove someone from his life; this presents risk as well.

 

If my kids are old enough to "date" (and my own 15 year old does not date in the traditional sense), they are old enough for me to not chose for them, *especially* in the absence of real, documented reasons.

[Laura Corin]

Except, we're not talking about little kids who don't share, or who whine, or hog the goldfish crackers. The behaviors that would be of concern in teenagers are more serious, and include potential long term consequences. So, while discussing the differences in values and expectations works when kids are younger, or less attached to the other individual, it's a whole other ball game when you're talking about a *dating* relationship between teenagers with hormones running all over the place.

 

I'm all for being a loving family that is willing to extend grace to those who need it (and don't we all!). We have regularly done this for young ladies and men who've been in similar situations. But by golly, I would NOT let my kids date them, that's for sure!

 

But my point still stands: if I keep my sons 'pure' - with no contact (including romantic contact) with badly-brought-up people, then how are they learning the lessons that will take them through the rest of their teen years away from home? I would definitely set boundaries, supervise closely, have long discussions.... but I wouldn't ban the relationship based on the reports so far received in this thread.

 

I don't know how the law treats teenagers in different states in the US, but in the UK one can leave school, legally have sex, and leave home at sixteen. A fifteen-year-old needs careful handling so that you don't 'run off' your child as you attempt to 'run off' the boy/girlfriend.

 

ETA: my eldest son is fourteen. I am specifically trying to imagine how I would react in this situation in one year's time.

 

Laura

Edited December 26, 2010 by Laura Corin

[GinaPagnato]

You absolutely allow contact with people from all walks of life, sometimes as examples of choices not to make, sometimes as models to follow.

 

That's different from allowing a dating relationship to develop between two teenagers who are only 15 and may not have the maturity to see things clearly. Of course, it depends on the kid and how mature he is, but even with my very mature 15 yo ds, I would definitely let him know what I'm seeing in the girl that concerns me, and do all I could do to dissuade him from pursuing the relationship if I felt that it wouldn't be a good one for him. We're parents for goodness sake, and they're only 15! There's a LOT of growing up that happens between 15 and 18.

[Laura Corin]

I would definitely let him know what I'm seeing in the girl that concerns me, and do all I could do to dissuade him from pursuing the relationship if I felt that it wouldn't be a good one for him. We're parents for goodness sake, and they're only 15! There's a LOT of growing up that happens between 15 and 18.

 

There are situations where I would ban a relationship - injectable drug use, violence, other serious illegal acts - at that point the risk to my son would be too high.

 

Based on the information given by the OP, the higher risk - I believe - would be of alienating the son and forcing him out of the house. As you say, hormones are raging; his flouncing out of my life would not be

an unusual consequence of my banning his girlfriend.

 

ETA: it's possible that my 'long discussions' and your 'doing all I could to dissuade him' might not sound very different. I don't know.

 

Laura

Edited December 26, 2010 by Laura Corin

[GinaPagnato]

This is the difficulty, for sure. I will say, two of my friends opted for the "let's welcome this individual into our lives because he/she isn't doing anything illegal that I know of, and if we say no, our kid will see him/her anyway."

 

Long story short, my friend's dd was pregnant at 16 and my other friend's ds was introduced to drugs, and began using and dealing.

 

Now, obviously I have no idea who the girl in Delaney's post is, nor do I have any reason to believe that she's immoral or out of control. I suppose I look at it more along the lines of, if I have cause for concern about this kid (ie. I'm getting a bad vibe, she did or said something questionable), then as a parent I ought to intervene. How that looks will vary from one individual to another, and will depend a great deal on the kid involved, and the nature of the parent's relationship with him/her.

 

What I *can* tell you is that I don't subscribe to the belief that if I actively discourage the relationship then my kid will run into her arms. That may happen, but if the discouragement looks like positive things (more activities, hobbies, more time spent with Dad, supervised group activities with other kids), then I think it's less likely.

[LauraGB]

I just love reading kalanamak.

 

:iagree: Me too!

[Mommyfaithe]

I don't think Nakia is suggesting this mom allow her son isolated exposure to someone who is potentially dangerous.

 

Her point...as I took it...is that she can still be there for this girl, and be protective of her son. They are not mutually exclusive. But it does take a lot more strength and presence than many of us want to give.

 

Nope, Nakia explicitly said "supervised at all time."

 

I understand where she is coming from. I was one of those rude, crude, not-so-nice girls. I would not have allowed ME to be with my son. I had NO parenting AT.ALL. My parents did not feel responsible for us and then let us run rampant...and we did. My brother and I both grew up responsible, law-abiding, loving adults. there were other people in our lives who stepped up and showed us how to behave. It was rough....but we were NOT romantically involved with their kids, nor were their kids heavily influenced by us.

 

The thing is, I understand Nakia and her compassion. She is a wonderful woman as I have seen from her posts here. I know she would want to do the right thing. But, sometimes, all times, we have to consider the effects on our own child before considering ministering to another child. If this was just a casual friend, I would have a much different opinion. But, because this is a 'dating' situation, that ups the ante and would make it impossible for me to help this young lady while protecting my son from potential fallout. I understand nakia said all this would be supervised visitation, but I think that would grow old really fast....

 

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

My father remained convinced that if he had 'run off' the first boyfriend, my sister would have gone too.

 

Laura

 

Maybe...maybe not. Maybe she would have grown up just fine if your Dad had run him off to begin with and maybe your sister would not have had to come back and break up with him, and maybe she would have been saved some heart hurts. Just saying.....

[LauraGB]

But, sometimes, all times, we have to consider the effects on our own child before considering ministering to another child. If this was just a casual friend, I would have a much different opinion. But, because this is a 'dating' situation, that ups the ante and would make it impossible for me to help this young lady while protecting my son from potential fallout. I understand nakia said all this would be supervised visitation, but I think that would grow old really fast....

 

Faithe

 

Of course. But, on the other hand, if OP's son witnesses his parents behaving graciously (not "hey, come do what you like with my son", but scrupulously, maturely dealing with the situation), and is given the ability to see for himself from these role models, and he is given the right to choose and observe and feel accordingly, well, I think it could only be beneficial at this early stage in the game (the game of dating, that is). The son is 15 - he's got his own thoughts and feelings, regardless. If OP tries to "run this girl off", he's going to see it. He's also going to react to it; it may be that he agrees with his mom, but just as possibly, he might not and it could drive a big wedge in the communication between him and his mom, which isn't a great thing right now.

 

I would have different advice if OP had described her differently; if she had deep seated issues, she was an addict, whatever. But it sounds to me like she might just need someone to love her and help her understand how other people live as gently as possible - and I, for one, would really, really rather it be a collective family thing (if ds is really interested in her) rather than just my son (because at 15 the outcome of that could be...whoa.).

[kalanamak]

The family may not necessarily know that she's a drug addict until it's too late. .

 

The worst drug addict I've ever had in my circle of friends was the best dresser, the smoothest talker, and drove the nicest car. Many a person has married someone they have known for a year or two, only to find out they were very careful alcoholics. Thinking your father is a whore because he keeps marrying (and may have cheated on the first three, thus far), and feeling comfortable enough with the mother of they guy you are sweet on to yak about it is not, so far, a 5 alarm alert of drug abuse.

 

Some of the nastiest divorces I've seen came from marriages where one spouse seemed perfect, perfect, perfect. I'd rather see someone warts and all than get sucked in by a smooth operator. If dad has been married 4 times, but he "seems like a nice guy", maybe HE is the smooth operator and the girl just too inexperienced to be slick about herself. Of the two, I'd trust her before him, but I am long a fan of actions speaking louder than words.

 

But really, and nothing about you Crimson Wife, I see a trend here of advice about teens turning, regularly, into give-them-some-leeway and the you-are-the-parents-put-your-foot-down factions. The usual suspects have shown up. :)

[Mother Superior]

Yep, and she was poorly brought up by the very person she is speaking disrespectfully about. If he has been a poor parent and behaves like a fickle toddler, need she respect him? I don't come from the "adults are respected for being adults" school of thought. If an adult wants respect, be a respectable person.

 

If a child said something like what this girl said to me about her dad being a whore, I would probably respond something along the lines of, "Wow, it sounds like you are really embarrassed/hurt by your dad's multiple marriages." Only if we had a reasonably close relationship would I take up her choice of language with her; I would first want to lend her an understanding ear.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

 

Yes, yes, YES! If he's on his fourth marriage and has "brought her up badly" then he probably doesn't DESERVE respect. While those aren't the words I would choose, if I had been hurt by my dad the way this girl's dad has hurt her, then I'd probably speak of him disrespectfully, too.

 

And AFTER commenting on how much she must be hurt, I'd probably say "You know, 'whore' is not a word I want my younger children going around saying, so if you could please 'keep it clean' when you are speaking around them, I'd appreciate it."

[Mother Superior]

People have spoken of grace, kindness etc and I get it BUT what possible benefit can it have to one's son to associate with such a girl? I am all for helping her but not at the risk of my son.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't think of my relationships in terms of how they can "benefit" me or someone I love.

[Mother Superior]

Why? Why would I possibly risk my kids in that way?

 

Because I believe that it really isn't that risky. I believe that if my kids have a stable home and responsible parents, having a few friends who haven't had what my kids have won't ruin my kids. They aren't that fragile. Because I believe that it is the right thing to do to offer a child in need a stable, loving home to find refuge in. Because I believe that my kids will learn valuable life lessons from seeing me embrace people whom others would shun (I learned that from parents, certainly). Because I think it would be an excellent opportunity to discuss our values with our kids in an immediately relevant situation. Because I don't believe in giving up hope on kids. And because if everyone shuns this child because she has been poorly brought up, how can we expect her to be different as an adult? Do we want her kids to be the next generation of poorly brought up kids?

 

I adopted two kids who were raised in orphanages. They certainly weren't "well brought up" before coming to us. The things my dd16 has done and said to us and others would curl your hair. I can only thank my lucky stars that the people around us extended my kids more grace than a lot of what I am seeing in this thread. Well, except for the few who didn't.

 

That's why.

 

Again, I agree completely, right down to adopting two kids who had been raised in orphanages. I would guess that my kids were younger than yours were at adoption (one of mine was 5 when we adopted her from China-- she is now 13. The other was 4 when we adopted her from Russia-- she'll turn 9 in a month) but some of the behaviors they learned prior to adoption were, um . . . difficult to deal with, to say the least.

[pqr]

I don't know about you, but I don't think of my relationships in terms of how they can "benefit" me or someone I love.

 

As a Father a primary earthly responsibility is to my family so yes, yes I do, I absolutely will protect my child from a negative influence especially one such as is being described.

 

No one has yet been able to explain why this is good for the boy in question.

 

Of course I feel sorry for the girl but my responsibilty is to my family.

[Haiku]

 

No one has yet been able to explain why this is good for the boy in question.

 

 

 

Actually, I did after you asked me.

 

Because I believe that my kids will learn valuable life lessons from seeing me embrace people whom others would shun (I learned that from parents, certainly). Because I think it would be an excellent opportunity to discuss our values with our kids in an immediately relevant situation.

 

And I will add that it would give my child the opportunity to learn to deal with potentially difficult people in a safe, supported, supervised environment; it would give my child a chance to stretch his ability to extend compassion; and it would give my child practice in holding up the behavior of someone he cares about against the backdrop of our values and making decision about how to reconcile another's behavior with his values. I know that there are people in my life that I love and about whom I have had to make difficult decisions regarding their behavior. My 16 year old is dealing with that situation right now with extended family members.

 

So yes, I see potential benefit to my child.

 

Tara

[simka2]

As a Father a primary earthly responsibility is to my family so yes, yes I do, I absolutely will protect my child from a negative influence especially one such as is being described.

 

No one has yet been able to explain why this is good for the boy in question.

 

Of course I feel sorry for the girl but my responsibilty is to my family.

 

 

I did too! Girls like this are a part of life. Like it or not he needs to know how to handle himself around them, and not be swept away by them. This dosen't happen in isolation. It happens thru exposure with positive role modeling.

[elegantlion]

Actually, I did after you asked me.

 

 

 

And I will add that it would give my child the opportunity to learn to deal with potentially difficult people in a safe, supported, supervised environment; it would give my child a chance to stretch his ability to extend compassion; and it would give my child practice in holding up the behavior of someone he cares about against the backdrop of our values and making decision about how to reconcile another's behavior with his values. I know that there are people in my life that I love and about whom I have had to make difficult decisions regarding their behavior. My 16 year old is dealing with that situation right now with extended family members.

 

So yes, I see potential benefit to my child.

 

Tara

 

:iagree: Not everyone is blessed to be able to spend their lives surrounded by perfect people.

[susankenny]

As a Father a primary earthly responsibility is to my family so yes, yes I do, I absolutely will protect my child from a negative influence especially one such as is being described.

 

No one has yet been able to explain why this is good for the boy in question.

 

Of course I feel sorry for the girl but my responsibility is to my family.

 

 

Yes. I completely agree with you.

 

 

Susan

[Heather in Neverland]

Well I have officially read all 17 pages of this thread :tongue_smilie: and I see good points to both sides of the argument but if it were me (and who knows, maybe one day it will be)...

 

I would not necessarily shut the girl out of my life completely. I would be willing to take her to church with my family, meet her for lunch/coffee (just the 2 of us) and speak into her life in a positive way, witness to her, offer a compassionate shoulder to cry on, etc.

 

But I would not let my ds DATE her.

 

That way my ds WOULD see me (a mature, experienced adult) being a compassionate individual and not turning my back on a person with a troubled background. He WOULD get the "life lesson" of seeing how compassion could possibly make a change in a person's life, etc.

 

But I would not let him put his heart on the line and then possibly make some bad choices because his brain was clouded with the hormones that "first love" induces.

 

A mature adult showing compassion to a troubled teen is one thing. An immature, inexperienced 15yo boy in a romantic relationship with the same troubled teen girl is something entirely different.

[Mother Superior]

As a Father a primary earthly responsibility is to my family so yes, yes I do, I absolutely will protect my child from a negative influence especially one such as is being described.

 

No one has yet been able to explain why this is good for the boy in question.

 

Of course I feel sorry for the girl but my responsibilty is to my family.

 

But therein lies the rub. I don't feel sorry for her at all. I feel compassion for her. I feel concern for the difficult life she has had. I respect her as a person and I admire her courage and independence.

 

I, personally, find the idea that people are feeling "sorry" for her to be very condescending. And I find the idea that we should only choose to be in relationships that benefit us to be extraordinarily egocentric.

 

What benefits would your son receive from being allowed some supervised time with this girl? Well, at a minimum, he would learn how to be a good parent. A parent who chooses to allow his child to learn about people who have different backgrounds and different values, and to love them anyway. He would learn to be a parent who chooses NOT to provoke his child's anger and rebellion. And, most importantly, he would learn, through example, how to avoid being condescending and egocentric, instead persevering in compassion and self-giving, even under difficult circumstances.

[Mother Superior]

Actually, I did after you asked me.

 

 

 

And I will add that it would give my child the opportunity to learn to deal with potentially difficult people in a safe, supported, supervised environment; it would give my child a chance to stretch his ability to extend compassion; and it would give my child practice in holding up the behavior of someone he cares about against the backdrop of our values and making decision about how to reconcile another's behavior with his values. I know that there are people in my life that I love and about whom I have had to make difficult decisions regarding their behavior. My 16 year old is dealing with that situation right now with extended family members.

 

So yes, I see potential benefit to my child.

 

Tara

 

Well said.

[simka2]

I will say this: Back in our youth pastoring days I had a parent come to me and say, "We let our jr high age kids pick their own music, but they are making horrible choices." My response was, "Well, I think it's good they have some freedom in picking their own music, but if the music is negatively affecting them....you are the parent. Connect the privledge of picking their own music, to the responsibilty of making wise choices. If their choices are not wise, and you can demonstrate why...you have veto power."

 

I still don't know that "I" would do this with the girl you have described, but if the only issue is that you have allowed dating and now want to move that privledge back aways...that's my advice.

[PineFarmMom]

I don't know about you, but I don't think of my relationships in terms of how they can "benefit" me or someone I love.

 

But I would definitely want to beware of the negative impact it could have on my child!! Focussing on the benefits is one thing. Focussing on the potential harm is something else altogether!! I think we are wise when we view things from that standpoint when it has to do with us being THE parents God gave our children.

 

I think many parents are so busy trying to feel good about themselves for reaching out to other kids or ministering outside of their homes that they aren't fully looking at what they may be doing to their own families!! I believe there's room for both, but our own children should be first!

[simka2]

But I would definitely want to beware of the negative impact it could have on my child!! Focussing on the benefits is one thing. Focussing on the potential harm is something else altogether!! I think we are wise when we view things from that standpoint when it has to do with us being THE parents God gave our children.

 

I think many parents are so busy trying to feel good about themselves for reaching out to other kids or ministering outside of their homes that they aren't fully looking at what they may be doing to their own families!! I believe there's room for both, but our own children should be first!

 

This hits really close to home for me tonight. If I had been thinking of my kids first...I may not have run into the scene of that car accident last night and potentially save a life (and lose my own).

 

No one has suggested willful exposure at the detrement of ones own child. I have not seen one post from the OP saying how this girl has neg impacted her son. Might she? Yes. Then that needs to be dealt with.

 

We haven't even crossed that bridge yet.

[Sophia]

What benefits would your son receive from being allowed some supervised time with this girl? Well, at a minimum, he would learn how to be a good parent. A parent who chooses to allow his child to learn about people who have different backgrounds and different values, and to love them anyway. He would learn to be a parent who chooses NOT to provoke his child's anger and rebellion. And, most importantly, he would learn, through example, how to avoid being condescending and egocentric, instead persevering in compassion and self-giving, even under difficult circumstances.

 

What?

He's going to learn how to parent from being around a rude, disrespectful girl?

No, he's not.

He's going to learn how to be rude and disrespectful himself.

 

Delaney, I think your best chances to keep this couple separate is to keep your ds as busy as possible doing things he enjoys.

Good luck :001_smile:

[simka2]

What?

He's going to learn how to parent from being around a rude, disrespectful girl?

No, he's not.

He's going to learn how to be rude and disrespectful himself.

 

Delaney, I think your best chances to keep this couple separate is to keep your ds as busy as possible doing things he enjoys.

Good luck :001_smile:

 

Ummmm...how does that logic hold up to the millions of foster parents out there!!!

 

I watched my grandfather love and poor into many countless teens (who were my friends that I brought home). Family vacations you name it. His living legacy is there involvement in public service.

 

What I learned. To love. To guide. To be strong. To make good choices.

[Sophia]

Ummmm...how does that logic hold up to the millions of foster parents out there!!!

 

I watched my grandfather love and poor into many countless teens (who were my friends that I brought home). Family vacations you name it. His living legacy is there involvement in public service.

 

What I learned. To love. To guide. To be strong. To make good choices.

 

That's wonderful that you learned that. Truly.

 

I do think the fact that he is a 15 y.o. boy with romantic feelings for this girl makes everything different.

[simka2]

That's wonderful that you learned that. Truly.

 

I do think the fact that he is a 15 y.o. boy with romantic feelings for this girl makes everything different.

 

I agree that it "could." That is what mom has to watch. "Could" and "Will" are vastly different things.

[Sophia]

I agree that it "could." That is what mom has to watch. "Could" and "Will" are vastly different things.

 

Indeed.

And no one knows better than Delaney whether this relationship has the potential to be problematic based on her own relationship with her 15 y.o. son.

If she thinks it needs to end, then I wish her success in diverting his attention elsewhere.

[Mother Superior]

What?

He's going to learn how to parent from being around a rude, disrespectful girl?

No, he's not.

He's going to learn how to be rude and disrespectful himself.

 

Delaney, I think your best chances to keep this couple separate is to keep your ds as busy as possible doing things he enjoys.

Good luck :001_smile:

 

He will learn how to treat others from the way his parents treat others.

 

He will learn how to raise a son from the way his parents raised him.

 

Do you really believe that a girl he has known for a short period of time will have more long term influence over him than his own mother and father??

 

Twenty years from now, when this boy has a son, and looks back on his relationship with this girl, chances are he will have only vague recollections of his first crush. However, he will ALWAYS remember how he felt about the way his parents dealt with the relationship.

[Sophia]

Do you really believe that a girl he has known for a short period of time will have more long term influence over him than his own mother and father??

 

 

I don't know this boy so I can't say what he would do, but yes, I do believe many many hormone driven teenage boys will listen to the object of their affections over their own mothers and fathers.

 

That's not to say they won't regret it later.

 

Teenage boys need the wisdom of their parents to help them along in these critical years, and if Delaney's wisdom is saying this girl is not good for him~then so be it.

[kalanamak]

I would like to think I could be helpful. I just worry about the fact that she is.......more worldly than I would want for my son right now. He has confided in me that her experience with boys is, well let's just say it.

 

Okay, now we are at the nitty and the gritty. Looking at your sig, this child is not homeschooled? He goes to school with her? He goes places on his own?

 

Your question (original) is not answerable without being in the middle of it, because only you know the extent of your son's ensnarement/trustworthiness. You can "forbid" something, but a teen off at school has ample opportunity to "get up to something". Her motivations only you have had first glimpse of: has she picked an innocent boy because she is sick of the overly mature ones and doesn't care to keep up her past sexual behavior, or is she so jaded, she's picking him off for target practice, or is she genuinely ga-ga over him?

 

If your son told you this, he must have some rapport with you, and was wondering about your take on it. Also, by your question, it seems you don't think merely forbidding this association to go on will work (or will backfire). You sound like you'd like her to hike off.

 

The situation is complex enough, that I wouldn't know what to say without knowing the people in it. Whether they continue to associate publicly or secretively, I would make it very clear to your son he will not get any breaks from you about repercussions of what goes wrong. He should be informed at what he can get ensnared in, and told he isn't going to get a break for "not knowing". I'd lay my cards on the table.

 

:grouphug: My boy has been girl crazy since he was 13 months old. I am girding my loins.

[simka2]

I don't know this boy so I can't say what he would do, but yes, I do believe many many hormone driven teenage boys will listen to the object of their affections over their own mothers and fathers.

 

That's not to say they won't regret it later.

 

Teenage boys need the wisdom of their parents to help them along in these critical years, and if Delaney's wisdom is saying this girl is not good for him~then so be it.

 

 

Sophia, I agree with you in theory :D. But for the sake of this thread, I have only been considering "facts in evidence" as laid out by the OP. She has come back to the thread, but there has never been any mention of how he is being neg affected. I do see where she has been neg. affected. Her photo choices have been slammed. and language has been uttered that she doesn't approve of.

 

What we do not know is if, she as asked this young girl to be more appropriate in her speech and conduct. She may have, and if so we are dealing with a different issue. But like I said before, as far as I can tell, she hasn't crossed that bridge yet.

[Mother Superior]

Teenage boys need the wisdom of their parents to help them along in these critical years, and if Delaney's wisdom is saying this girl is not good for him~then so be it.

 

On this, I think everyone who has posted in this thread can agree.

 

The question that seems to be up for debate is how to deal with a situation where a teen boy has a relationship with a girl his parents have judged to be "not good for him."

 

Option 1: Should they take a hard look at WHY they think the relationship is no good, assessing their own prejudices and expectations, leaving open the possibility of changing their minds about the girl?

 

Option 2: Should they, without further investigation, cut the relationship off, taking the risk of provoking their son's rebellion and trust in them as parents?

 

Option 3: Should they treat her civilly and nothing more, keeping the boy busy in the hope that the relationship will fizzle out?

 

Option 4: Or, should they try to mentor the girl, taking her under their wing, carefully supervising the progression of the relationship, in the hope of either: a) getting to know her better and POSSIBLY seeing that she is not so bad after all, and retaining the good will of their son; or b) making her uncomfortable with their values and level of family closeness and supervision such that she chooses to end the relationship herself.

 

These are the options I have seen proffered here. If you have another I am all ears. :bigear:

 

My votes are for options 1 and 4. I was raised by my-way-or-the-highway parents. I didn't get into any relationships of which they disapproved until I was 18, but I was so SICK of being controlled by them that as soon as they said one word against the guy I was dating, WOOSH-- he and I eloped. I knew they were right about him even as I did it (we later divorced) but I did it not because I thought the marriage was a good idea, but because I wanted to prove, once and for all, that they could not control me any longer.

 

The naivete of the parents arguing in favor of Option 2 takes my breath away.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Mother Superior

[simka2]

I wanted to put yours back at the bottom, because it was wiser than mine and we posted at the same time;).

 

Dang it! then I get in the way of another great one!!! I will stay away now :D

 

Okay, now we are at the nitty and the gritty. Looking at your sig, this child is not homeschooled? He goes to school with her? He goes places on his own?

 

Your question (original) is not answerable without being in the middle of it, because only you know the extent of your son's ensnarement/trustworthiness. You can "forbid" something, but a teen off at school has ample opportunity to "get up to something". Her motivations only you have had first glimpse of: has she picked an innocent boy because she is sick of the overly mature ones and doesn't care to keep up her past sexual behavior, or is she so jaded, she's picking him off for target practice, or is she genuinely ga-ga over him?

 

If your son told you this, he must have some rapport with you, and was wondering about your take on it. Also, by your question, it seems you don't think merely forbidding this association to go on will work (or will backfire). You sound like you'd like her to hike off.

 

The situation is complex enough, that I wouldn't know what to say without knowing the people in it. Whether they continue to associate publicly or secretively, I would make it very clear to your son he will not get any breaks from you about repercussions of what goes wrong. He should be informed at what he can get ensnared in, and told he isn't going to get a break for "not knowing". I'd lay my cards on the table.

 

:grouphug: My boy has been girl crazy since he was 13 months old. I am girding my loins.

Edited December 26, 2010 by simka2

[pqr]

Actually, I did after you asked me.

 

 

 

And I will add that it would give my child the opportunity to learn to deal with potentially difficult people in a safe, supported, supervised environment; it would give my child a chance to stretch his ability to extend compassion; and it would give my child practice in holding up the behavior of someone he cares about against the backdrop of our values and making decision about how to reconcile another's behavior with his values. I know that there are people in my life that I love and about whom I have had to make difficult decisions regarding their behavior. My 16 year old is dealing with that situation right now with extended family members.

 

So yes, I see potential benefit to my child.

 

Tara

 

We see things differently. The child is rude, ill raised and I would not have her near "my" 15 year old boy who, if I read the OP, has feelings for her. She may teach him a few things but none of them are lessons I would want my child to learn.

 

Introducing a foul mouthed ill raised teen into a family setting has far more probabilty to cause strife than generate any great life lesson.

 

Do you honestly think that a teen at that age (when he is half way between child and adult) is improved by this? Honestly? You are arguing that the OP should risk her son at a very delicate time over potential, debatable and ill defined gain. I simply do not see it.

 

If your mission is to show grace and save kids, which is laudable...most laudable, then do so. I praise you for it, join any one of the mentoring groups out there, Big Brothers, Big Sisters etc, but you are arguing that a boy should be introduced into such an environment. While your points sound good, on an emotional level, I think you would admit that there are many who would disagree with you on a more realistic level.

Edited December 26, 2010 by pqr

[Retired]

Well I have officially read all 17 pages of this thread :tongue_smilier: and I see good points to both sides of the argument but if it were me (and who knows, maybe one day it will be)...

 

I would not necessarily shut the girl out of my life completely. I would be willing to take her to church with my family, meet her for lunch/coffee (just the 2 of us) and speak into her life in a positive way, witness to her, offer a compassionate shoulder to cry on, etc.

 

But I would not let my ds DATE her.

 

That way my ds WOULD see me (a mature, experienced adult) being a compassionate individual and not turning my back on a person with a troubled background. He WOULD get the "life lesson" of seeing how compassion could possibly make a change in a person's life, etc.

 

But I would not let him put his heart on the line and then possibly make some bad choices because his brain was clouded with the hormones that "first love" induces.

 

A mature adult showing compassion to a troubled teen is one thing. An immature, inexperienced 15yo boy in a romantic relationship with the same troubled teen girl is something entirely different.

 

well some where on these pages this is how I handled a similar situation with my 16 yo, he had chaperoned time with the girl, they were always with me, but I didn't cut the girl out, he started to see my point of view, but I also have kept in touch with her as an adult for her to reach out to. My 16 yo son was not ready for all the girls baggage.

[PineFarmMom]

This hits really close to home for me tonight. If I had been thinking of my kids first...I may not have run into the scene of that car accident last night and potentially save a life (and lose my own).

 

No one has suggested willful exposure at the detrement of ones own child. I have not seen one post from the OP saying how this girl has neg impacted her son. Might she? Yes. Then that needs to be dealt with.

 

We haven't even crossed that bridge yet.

 

That's kind of a far reach to compare, imo. Emergency situations are a far reach from a mouthy, rude girl wanting to date one's son and the potential impact she may have on him!! That comparison doesn't even make sense to me. :confused:

 

The mom is wanting to run off the girlfriend because she seems to be a potential detrement to her child. People are saying she's wrong and should reach out. My point is that reaching is good as long as one's child isn't part of the mix. Allowing a relationship with this girl at this point seems a bad idea.

[Sophia]

The question that seems to be up for debate is how to deal with a situation where a teen boy has a relationship with a girl his parents have judged to be "not good for him."

 

 

I agree with Kalanamack that the situation is too complex to offer an opinion beyond that I support her desire to end the relationship and would be moving in the same direction if it were my son.

 

I will add that when my own son was 14 (before he made the decision not to date) I did step in and put and end to a budding relationship with a girl who did not meet my approval.

There was much discussion between ds, dh and myself on why we did what we did and I know for a fact ds harbors no ill will over the situation.

He can look back and appreciate he has parents who care enough about him to save him from himself.

[Joanne]

She has issues that I really don't want wearing off on my kid. Her dad has been married 4 times, her mom has mental issues, she is an only child that has lots of resentment issues with her parents, and she questions things that just need to be her business. For instance, she didn't like that we put DS on the Christmas card in his scout uniform(he finished his Eagle project this year). She said it was embarrassing for him. Ummmm....wth? Who are you to say? She also said he gets made fun of about his name(Casey). How do I run her off?

 

Let's look at the OP. There is not *one* mention of how this has hurt, influenced, changed or put at risk the son. The first 3 are not "her" doing.

 

I'd also like to know if she questioned the OP or Dad or if feedback on the Christmas card came through the son. If it was direct, what form, tone and interchange took place?

 

And, to be honest, I can completely see a gf of a mid-teen thinking it's uncool to have to wear a scout uniform in a family pic. Is she not allowed to have an opinion? It's common (and expected, and normal) for teens to want to be older, wiser and less kid like.

 

If her parents are all that bad, shouldn't she have resentment issues? And what point are you trying to make about "only child"? Where does that fit into your concerns?

 

Also, I asked this earlier in the thread, but what does "dating" look like for these 2? I'm pretty liberal and give them lots of room (with guidance ;)) and my 15 year old doesn't date unsupervised, solo or outside of a group activity.

[simka2]

That's kind of a far reach to compare, imo. Emergency situations are a far reach from a mouthy, rude girl wanting to date one's son and the potential impact she may have on him!! That comparison doesn't even make sense to me. :confused:

 

The mom is wanting to run off the girlfriend because she seems to be a potential detrement to her child. People are saying she's wrong and should reach out. My point is that reaching is good as long as one's child isn't part of the mix. Allowing a relationship with this girl at this point seems a bad idea.

 

No, I am good with the context as I was responding to this generalized statement.

 

"I think many parents are so busy trying to feel good about themselves for reaching out to other kids or ministering outside of their homes that they aren't fully looking at what they may be doing to their own families!! "

 

There is not a single post where I think anyone, includeing myself, is advocating helping others at the expense of their families.

[Laurie4b]

And sometimes because they are simply rude.

 

Speaking disrespectfully of one's Father to another adult, using a word like "whore" and one is supposed to assume what?

 

Stop looking for the silver lining, the child is rude and obviously poorly brought up. I may feel sorry for her but that changes nothing.

 

Frankly, I'd assume that her father is promiscuous and that she has been hurt by it. 4 marriages= how many women altogether? What would that be like for a kid--a new woman a little less than every 4 years of her life. I would never call her words rude; they are descriptive.

[Sophia]

I would never call her words rude; they are descriptive.

 

Would calling an overweight person "fatso" be rude or descriptive?

 

 

 

 

 

(It's rude.)

[jld]

he will ALWAYS remember how he felt about the way his parents dealt with the relationship.

 

:iagree:

[Laurie4b]

Would calling an overweight person "fatso" be rude or descriptive?

 

 

 

 

 

(It's rude.)

 

Can you honestly not see the different impact that having a promiscuous father would have on a teenager as different from calling someone fat?

 

I don't regard "whore" as a dirty or rude word; the KJV uses the word 65 times. Perhaps that's the difference in the way we see things, but even if I did think the word was rude, a girl that lived with (you can fill in the blank with the word you would use) as a father is not someone I would judge or look down on for using that particular phrase.

[Sophia]

Can you honestly not see the different impact that having a promiscuous father would have on a teenager as different from calling someone fat?

 

I don't regard "whore" as a dirty or rude word; the KJV uses the word 65 times. Perhaps that's the difference in the way we see things, but even if I did think the word was rude, a girl that lived with (you can fill in the blank with the word you would use) as a father is not someone I would judge or look down on for using that particular phrase.

 

Calling her dad a wh*re is rude. Promiscuous is just as descriptive without sounding as crass.

Knowing teenagers, she was using the word for shock value, not because the KJV uses it. :rolleyes:

[asta]

This would be ideal but I realize it would just lead to sneaking around.:glare:

DH and I were discussing it last night and while he a man of few words and doesn't judge, he doesn't like this girl either. It seems the more she speaks the more she digs her hole! He latest and greatest statement was, "Oh my dad is a total whore and has been married 4 times.":001_huh:

Okay then. What really pulls at my heart is that a child would even refer to their parent a whore! I met her dad and he was very nice. She has had a very different upbringing as her parents are older, well educated, and travel quite extensively. She has been to far more foreign countries than most adults and done some really cool things. I really appreciate all of that but I see that she is an attention getter and it seems that there is constant drama with my DS.

FWIW we spoke with him about the name thing which he just had no clue where that came from. We also asked him about scouts and while he agrees that he has gotten ribbed a bit about scouts, it really isn't a big deal since most people don't even know he is in scouts and his close friends just accept it since he has been a scout since 1st grade. Sigh.

 

Ok now, see, this just cracks me up.

 

Everyone is going on and on about how this girl is such a tart and how poorly she has been brought up, yadda yadda yadda --

 

And yet the OP just thinks the parents are fabulous!

 

Folks - this isn't about the girl's homelife! This isn't about how she was brought up. This is about. the. GIRL.

 

A CHILD.

 

Mamma. doesn't. like. her. son's. girlfriend. Period.

 

Everyone can sugarcoat it anyway they want: "protect the child" "keep from dangerous influences" "blah blah blah".

 

This is an adult woman threatened by the presence of a child. How about someone here asking WHY an adult woman is threatened by a child instead of just taking decisive action? What is going on in the dynamic here that an adult woman is allowing herself to be threatened by the presence of a CHILD?

 

If dear son is too young and immature to be making sound decisions about "the character" of people who he dates, why is the mother allowing him to date? Did she think she would have veto power? Is she regretting letting the barn door open? Is she having "my baby is growing up and now what do I do with my life" fears?

 

Why are there twenty pages about the girl? This isn't about the girl! This is about the OP!

 

 

asta

[parias1126]

Ok now, see, this just cracks me up.

 

Everyone is going on and on about how this girl is such a tart and how poorly she has been brought up, yadda yadda yadda --

 

And yet the OP just thinks the parents are fabulous!

 

Folks - this isn't about the girl's homelife! This isn't about how she was brought up. This is about. the. GIRL.

 

A CHILD.

 

Mamma. doesn't. like. her. son's. girlfriend. Period.

 

Everyone can sugarcoat it anyway they want: "protect the child" "keep from dangerous influences" "blah blah blah".

 

This is an adult woman threatened by the presence of a child. How about someone here asking WHY an adult woman is threatened by a child instead of just taking decisive action? What is going on in the dynamic here that an adult woman is allowing herself to be threatened by the presence of a CHILD?

 

If dear son is too young and immature to be making sound decisions about "the character" of people who he dates, why is the mother allowing him to date? Did she think she would have veto power? Is she regretting letting the barn door open? Is she having "my baby is growing up and now what do I do with my life" fears?

 

Why are there twenty pages about the girl? This isn't about the girl! This is about the OP!

 

 

asta

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. I think this thread has gotten so out of control with everyone reading into it what just isn't there. It isn't about the OP or her son anymore. Just ramblings of what everyone thinks is right and arguing points with the PP. Just. Crazy.

[Laura Corin]

Maybe...maybe not. Maybe she would have grown up just fine if your Dad had run him off to begin with and maybe your sister would not have had to come back and break up with him, and maybe she would have been saved some heart hurts. Just saying.....

 

My sister is very, very stubborn however. My father acted with understanding of her character.

 

Laura