My rant on IMMIGRATION

[unsinkable]

One more try at evoking some compassion :

 

Suppose that your circumstances were to change in Malaysia: you and your husband lose your jobs and he can find only a job that barely keeps you alive and you cannot afford to live in a safe area. Something happens: a crime perhaps almost perpetrated against one of your children. Perhaps local organized crime becomes aware of your plight and begins to demand some of the little money you have to keep your family "safe." You know you need to get out, but you have no legal way to do so and bring your daughter. Are you certain that you wouldn't use that visa even though it would be illegal?

 

That is the true life scenario of most of those "waltzing" across the border. One pregnant woman whom I know personally had a waltz that included being held for ransom and threatened with having gasoline poured on her and set afire. Our immigration policy is not commensurate with the reality of the US economy, which absorbs (because it needs) a great number of workers willing to work at unskilled jobs--yet our immigration policies favor professionals immigrating. Go figure. Right now, in my state, the unemployment rate is high for skilled labor. Unskilled labor, willing to work hard, can be come by fairly easily. The demand on the US side combined with the supply on the Mexican side draws people in. (This works a lot like Prohibition did--as long as there is a demand, there will be a supply, but when the law restricts something that Americans actually want, you'll end up with organized crime.) As soon as that is fixed, you'll have legal immigration. As long as the demand exists, we will not be able to secure our borders--which I would support--but it won't work until we have an immigration policy that is honest. We say, "Go home" out of one side of our mouth and "Come on over and work for us" out of the other side. Right now, keeping these folks "illegal" serves the selfish interests of certain segments of the US population and for the most part, government turns a blind eye--AZ is an exception in that they went after the demand side as well as the supply side.

 

Many illegal immigrants are parents who want to be able to provide something more for their children. Homeschooling was also once illegal in the US.

 

The people I know who have immigrated illegally do everything else as legally as they are allowed in the US. They pay into our tax system ( we will give them a tax identification number ) and they work very hard--many starting their own businesses. They are also the victims of the organized crime that flourishes because of the situation.

 

You are living in safety and comfort while facing US immigration policies. The families of others are in danger when they decide to survive by risking a border crossing.

 

Thank you, Laurie, for such a wonderful post.

[unsinkable]

Our church dealt with an issue that was just inane with one of our pastors. He originally came in on a visa working for a different organization. We hired him, but they couldn't straighten out his immigration status. After a few years he left the country. It just wasn't going anywhere, even with lawyers and everything involved. After that experience I understand a bit better why people come illegally. It is a completely ridiculous process to come legally, nothing is standardized and at each of the money levels of bureaucracy you need different information and documentation and are told that there are different requirements. Even if you do everything right you can get denied after years of effort and no one can explain why. It sucks.

 

Denying entrance to an adopted baby is ridiculous. That should be automatic if anything is.

 

Christina, did you see the posts from experienced people who wrote that the rules are in place to prevent baby trafficking? :confused:

[Haiku]

We had issues with getting a visa for our oldest child to enter the country because she has some health problems. The issues we had made me more, not less, sympathetic to people who want to come to this country and have no recourse. The people who "waltz" across the border illegally are the ones that our country doesn't provide opportunities for legal entry to.

 

I'm sorry your daughter's visa was denied, but I'm sure you will be able to sort things out. Our Congressperson helped us.

 

Tara

[annandatje]

The US Department of State webpage on US citizens adopting from Malaysia states upfront that you may have to remain in Malaysia with child two or more years.

 

http://adoption.state.gov/country/malaysia.html

 

Where are you in the process? Do you already have her new Malaysian birth certificate and her Malaysian passport? Has your daughter's I-600 already been filed and approved with the US Embassy? Has she been declared an "orphan" in accordance with the complex US immigration regulations?

 

Adoption and immigration are two separate issues, and the US has very strict and complex immigration laws. Years ago an Indian friend told me that we (US) make it difficult for foreigners to travel here, yet we expect ease of entry into other countries.

 

Have you consulted with a US immigration attorney? Good luck in getting your situation resolved.

Edited December 14, 2010 by annandatje

[lionfamily1999]

Christina, did you see the posts from experienced people who wrote that the rules are in place to prevent baby trafficking? :confused:

We can't have our cake and eat it too. Either we protect children from pseudo adoptions that go around the rules set in place in the US or else we make it easy for people that do so, but are good people.

[Mejane]

Basically they were denied because someone at a desk was having a bad day, not because they did anything wrong or had anything missing. It shouldn't be that arbitrary. A child's life shouldn't be a crap-shoot based on how some bureaucrat is feeling that day.

 

The quote below would indicate otherwise.

The US Department of State webpage on US citizens adopting from Malaysia states upfront that you may have to remain in Malaysia with child two or more years.

 

 

 

It's a shame, but it sounds as though someone didn't do her homework.

[unsinkable]

Actually I responded before read the thread, but I read them. I get it. It's is still ridiculous. Heather has had her dd for a year now. Most traffickers won't put up with sleepless nights and teething for a year just to sell a baby. They already have one internationally adopted child so they have a clear track record of doing this and doing it well.

 

Basically they were denied because someone at a desk was having a bad day, not because they did anything wrong or had anything missing. It shouldn't be that arbitrary. A child's life shouldn't be a crap-shoot based on how some bureaucrat is feeling that day.

 

I want to make sure you know I wasn't tyring to be argumentative. :grouphug: It is just that the rules in general seem to have a purpose.

[deacongirl]

I strongly believe that these cases should never be open and shut. They should be fully investigated to the greatest possible extent in order to protect children and their birth families.

 

For those who think that it should be open and shut, read this article http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/09/07/anatomy_of_an_adoption_crisis

and imagination you are an uneducated rural parent told your child has a chance to go to a boarding school to get an education, and instead your child is stolen and adopted out to a foreign country without your consent. Imagine that you are a birth mother who cannot pay the hospital bills for your baby's birth and that you are forced to give up your baby in exchange for those services. Imagine that your baby or child is actually literally stolen--there are documented cases of this happening. These children will grow up and have questions about their origins and APs and the U.S. govt that approves the visa application are obligated to ensure that adoptions are ethical.

 

Re: immigration--I don't think that my husband who had the privilege of being born in a family that could afford an excellent education, and then the backing of a corporation to get his initial work visa, is more worthy of immigrating to this country than those who come here illegally. His many legal immigrant co-workers may rant against a system in desperate need of reform, but not against the individuals who make a choice that most of us thankfully are never in a position to contemplate (and incidentally his industry depends on the labor of undocumented workers who do work that U.S. citizens will not do.)

[jujsky]

Am I the only one who feels Heather is being needlessly attacked here? Geez, she came here to vent and get support! Why can't people just say, "I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sucks," and move on? She's entitled to feel the way she does about illegals. Maybe she didn't phrase it as well as she could have, but the girl is upset. Maybe she didn't completely "do her homework" as someone mentioned about her adoption. Isn't it a little late & heartless to mention that to her now that the adoption is complete? Seems a little snarky. The problem she's facing now is being stuck in Malaysia with a daughter who is legally her child, but currently has no legal status in the US. Let's focus on that issue and either say something supportive, give her advice, or say nothing at all. I find it hypocritical that so many people are chastising her for showing no empathy towards illegal immigrants, yet in doing so are showing her no empathy for her frustrating situation.

[OregonNative]

I'm SO sorry! How utterly ridiculous:angry: I pray things work out and quickly!! Please keep us posted.:grouphug:

[LisaKinVA]

Am I the only one who feels Heather is being needlessly attacked here? Geez, she came here to vent and get support! Why can't people just say, "I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sucks," and move on? She's entitled to feel the way she does about illegals. Maybe she didn't phrase it as well as she could have, but the girl is upset. Maybe she didn't completely "do her homework" as someone mentioned about her adoption. Isn't it a little late & heartless to mention that to her now that the adoption is complete? Seems a little snarky. The problem she's facing now is being stuck in Malaysia with a daughter who is legally her child, but currently has no legal status in the US. Let's focus on that issue and either say something supportive, give her advice, or say nothing at all. I find it hypocritical that so many people are chastising her for showing no empathy towards illegal immigrants, yet in doing so are showing her no empathy for her frustrating situation.

:iagree:

[OregonNative]

Am I the only one who feels Heather is being needlessly attacked here? Geez, she came here to vent and get support! Why can't people just say, "I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sucks," and move on? She's entitled to feel the way she does about illegals. Maybe she didn't phrase it as well as she could have, but the girl is upset. Maybe she didn't completely "do her homework" as someone mentioned about her adoption. Isn't it a little late & heartless to mention that to her now that the adoption is complete? Seems a little snarky. The problem she's facing now is being stuck in Malaysia with a daughter who is legally her child, but currently has no legal status in the US. Let's focus on that issue and either say something supportive, give her advice, or say nothing at all. I find it hypocritical that so many people are chastising her for showing no empathy towards illegal immigrants, yet in doing so are showing her no empathy for her frustrating situation.

:iagree:Heather is frustrated and looking for some support. This is NOT a political post and she has every right to feel the way she does. If you're not Heather-you have NO idea what she has gone thru or is going thru. I get so sick and tired of ppl on this board feeling like they just have to open their mouths and try to take someone down a notch when all they are asking for is a hug and/or a kind word. No one looking for support needs a lecture. Really ppl-if you don't have anything nice to say-don't post.

[astrid]

Yes, thank you.

You certainly said it more eloquently and with much more grace and temperance that what was running through my head.

 

astrid

[TravelingChris]

I used to work in Immigration and my name is on a plaque in one building because I was the top student in my class. The regulations are extremely confusing and many can be applied arbitrarily. I missed whether you have an attorney, Heather? If not, I would recommend you get one and yes, do get your congressman (or woman) to fight for you.

[TravelingChris]

I think the two articles posted on this thread explain a lot. There simply aren't loads of healthy baby infant orphans. There is a worldwide shortage and a big demand. This creates all kinds of unethical practices and what the US is trying not to be a part of.

[Mrs Mungo]

No one looking for support needs a lecture. Really ppl-if you don't have anything nice to say-don't post.

 

? I don't think blind support is real support or being a real friend. Sometimes, we need people to help us see things from another perspective.

 

We're getting ready to move, RIGHT after the first of the year, in the middle of the year. It's a huge pain in the rear to move in the middle of the year. However, if I came here venting, saying "this is RIDICULOUS, why do we have to move so often? I HATE having to start over somewhere new. I don't want to move anymore and shouldn't have to!" I think people would respond "err...that's part of military life and if you don't like it, you guys should probably think about leaving the army." It would not just garner me sympathy.

 

If I said "ugh, I hate moving in the middle of the year, it's such a pain, it's so much easier to move in the summer," and I left it at that, it would garner more sympathy.

 

Pointing out reasons behind policies will usually calm people down, make them think through their own situation. I think many of the responses explaining the policy were directed at posts like the one about the bureaucrat having a bad day. If it's State Department policy, then it isn't arbitrary and isn't easy to get around.

 

Yes, dealing with immigration is very difficult. I know many military wives who have been through the process. Who couldn't go home for a family funeral because they couldn't leave the country at a particular time. There have been military widows DEPORTED when their husband was killed in action and they therefore lost their sponsor. It can be REALLY hard and frustrating. That doesn't make every policy ridiculous or every bureaucrat someone just waiting to make your life difficult.

 

I think the two articles posted on this thread explain a lot. There simply aren't loads of healthy baby infant orphans. There is a worldwide shortage and a big demand. This creates all kinds of unethical practices and what the US is trying not to be a part of.

 

:iagree:

[deacongirl]

Well, it is personal and political. I can't imagine posting a thread titled "my rant on immigration", a very controversial topic, and not expecting some dissenting views along with support. It is possible to feel sympathy to the OP and to hope her case is resolved quickly and disagree with the conclusions re: illegal immigration.

 

But having actually been in a similar situation, having to make preliminary plans to relocate our entire family for 2 years including my 5 year old who was not with us overseas, I can imagine a little bit of what it is like. And having personally seen families going through enormous emotional and financial strain, and considering that there are certainly people reading this thread who may pursue IA in the future, I feel compelled to address some of the points made in this thread. I would hate for any family to experience some of what I witnessed in Vietnam--if you (potential PAPs reading this) choose to adopt without an approved i-600, you must be prepared that you could be in a similar situation yourself.

[FaithManor]

Hello to everyone who wants to turn this into a big rant on immigration or baby trafficing or anything else. Heather came here just for some support, for a friendly chat about her frustrations, for commiseration. She did not come here to have everyone take sides on US immigration laws.I can't believe how snarky this thread has become.

 

Heather, I for one am very sorry you have been flamed for this. I don't know what is happening on the board these days...to be honest...I've seriously been considering taking another really long break from it but there are so many things that I've also recently enjoyed sooooo much, the Ethiopean/Eretria conflict thread that was so enlightening, the prayer chain started for Imp - which just blessed me so much - etc. It's hard to give up.

 

I would at least like to express to you my compassion for your situation and I am ever so thankful that little Natalie is safely in your care and at least, your custody of her is not in jeopardy. I will pray that some bureaucrat some where decides to get a grip, do the necessary research, and get this done. Unlike some others, I see this from a being exhausted with the system standpoint and I COMPLETELY understand your frustration because if I had finally managed to get to this point in the whole process, I'm pretty certain that my head would be exploding and I would need to vent to prevent pieces of my brain from splaying around the room like shrapnel!!

 

Unfortuntely, I now know that this is not going to be the place to discuss our possible opportunity to become permanent legal guardians of an unwanted little girl from our community. I'm pretty sure that we are going to face a big paperwork nightmare and I've already been forewarned that we will have a lot of trouble up front convincing authorities that we don't have to get her biological mother's permission to do x and so because we have permanent legal guardianship...we will have trouble the first two or three times we try to travel outside the county with her for medical care because it's going to take a mountain of paperwork to prove to the doctors that she really belongs to us, etc. It's going to be headache bar none, and if we get her, it is going to be sooooooo worth it, but I won't be talking about it here!

 

Faith

[OregonNative]

Heather, I for one am very sorry you have been flamed for this. I don't know what is happening on the board these days...to be honest...I've seriously been considering taking another really long break from it but there are so many things that I've also recently enjoyed sooooo much, the Ethiopean/Eretria conflict thread that was so enlightening, the prayer chain started for Imp - which just blessed me so much - etc. It's hard to give up.

Faith

:iagree:

[Nakia]

Am I the only one who feels Heather is being needlessly attacked here? Geez, she came here to vent and get support! Why can't people just say, "I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sucks," and move on? She's entitled to feel the way she does about illegals. Maybe she didn't phrase it as well as she could have, but the girl is upset. Maybe she didn't completely "do her homework" as someone mentioned about her adoption. Isn't it a little late & heartless to mention that to her now that the adoption is complete? Seems a little snarky. The problem she's facing now is being stuck in Malaysia with a daughter who is legally her child, but currently has no legal status in the US. Let's focus on that issue and either say something supportive, give her advice, or say nothing at all. I find it hypocritical that so many people are chastising her for showing no empathy towards illegal immigrants, yet in doing so are showing her no empathy for her frustrating situation.

 

Me too!!! I came back to read any updates and was SHOCKED to see so much harshness toward Heather. Come on, people, we know Heather! I consider her a dear friend, even though we've never met IRL. We know her heart and the love she has for her own kids and the kids she is blessed to be with in her school. We know she is a kind and wonderful woman! She just wants to take HER daughter home to see her MOTHER. We should try to be more understanding of others. It was only a year ago that we were all cheering Heather on as she got word that she might be able to adopt little Natalie. Let's continue to cheer her on!

 

Love you Heather!!! :grouphug:

[Nakia]

Hello to everyone who wants to turn this into a big rant on immigration or baby trafficing or anything else. Heather came here just for some support, for a friendly chat about her frustrations, for commiseration. She did not come here to have everyone take sides on US immigration laws.I can't believe how snarky this thread has become.

 

Heather, I for one am very sorry you have been flamed for this. I don't know what is happening on the board these days...to be honest...I've seriously been considering taking another really long break from it but there are so many things that I've also recently enjoyed sooooo much, the Ethiopean/Eretria conflict thread that was so enlightening, the prayer chain started for Imp - which just blessed me so much - etc. It's hard to give up.

 

I would at least like to express to you my compassion for your situation and I am ever so thankful that little Natalie is safely in your care and at least, your custody of her is not in jeopardy. I will pray that some bureaucrat some where decides to get a grip, do the necessary research, and get this done. Unlike some others, I see this from a being exhausted with the system standpoint and I COMPLETELY understand your frustration because if I had finally managed to get to this point in the whole process, I'm pretty certain that my head would be exploding and I would need to vent to prevent pieces of my brain from splaying around the room like shrapnel!!

 

Unfortuntely, I now know that this is not going to be the place to discuss our possible opportunity to become permanent legal guardians of an unwanted little girl from our community. I'm pretty sure that we are going to face a big paperwork nightmare and I've already been forewarned that we will have a lot of trouble up front convincing authorities that we don't have to get her biological mother's permission to do x and so because we have permanent legal guardianship...we will have trouble the first two or three times we try to travel outside the county with her for medical care because it's going to take a mountain of paperwork to prove to the doctors that she really belongs to us, etc. It's going to be headache bar none, and if we get her, it is going to be sooooooo worth it, but I won't be talking about it here!

 

Faith

 

Please don't hold back Faith. I know many of us would love to know if you are adopting a new little one. That is such a wonderful blessing!!! Hoping and praying with you! If you decide not to post on the general board, I would love for you to pm me so I can pray for specific needs and be updated. :001_smile:

[jujsky]

?

 

We're getting ready to move, RIGHT after the first of the year, in the middle of the year. It's a huge pain in the rear to move in the middle of the year. However, if I came here venting, saying "this is RIDICULOUS, why do we have to move so often? I HATE having to start over somewhere new. I don't want to move anymore and shouldn't have to!" I think people would respond "err...that's part of military life and if you don't like it, you guys should probably think about leaving the army." It would not just garner me sympathy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's apples and oranges. People gently suggesting that you could leave military life if you hate moving is different because that is a choice your family can make and you realize going into it that military life = moving around a lot. FWIW, I probably would bite my tongue and offer you a hug and some kind words. Heather is left without a choice here and was apparently unaware that they would need to stay in Malaysia for 2 years with their child before returning home. I also don't agree with blindly supporting someone either, but in this case what's done is done and I don't think tearing her down because she ranted in a moment of stress or telling her NOW that she should have looked into the immigration aspect before she adopted is going to help. It's done, it happened, she needs support. There are many posts I respond to in a supportive manner where I wonder to myself why a person didn't dot all their i's or cross all their t's, but if it's not helpful and not going to change anything by saying so, what's the point? Do I want to cause hurt and be smug in my own self-righteousness? If it's a post I really can't agree with or offer kind words, I walk away.

 

I agree that the articles from the other poster do explain why these laws are in place because human trafficking is a real issue and rules need to be followed to minimize the chance of it occurring. Using the articles to explain why these laws exist is completely legitimate in a post like this. Tearing Heather down for not fully investigating international adoption or for receiving faulty information about IA is not helpful at this point. It's just mean.

[Mrs Mungo]

That's apples and oranges. People gently suggesting that you could leave military life if you hate moving is different because that is a choice your family can make and you realize going into it that military life = moving around a lot. FWIW, I probably would bite my tongue and offer you a hug and some kind words. Heather is left without a choice here and was apparently unaware that they would need to stay in Malaysia for 2 years with their child before returning home.

 

It is unfortunate that Heather was unaware of this policy. But many of the posts explaining were from other adoptive parents who wanted *others* to be aware, not people out to get Heather.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

That being said:

 

Heather, my heart goes out to you. I live in a country where there are almost 200 families that have been waiting more than 3 years to get out of here, back to the US, and start their lives.

 

I have a friend (we've taken care of her dd that she is adopting and has been for 3 years) who is losing her home and everything she has in the US because of the situation she is put in. It's ugly.

 

I'm praying that this situation gets resolved. NO ONE should ever have to go through this when they are trying to do it RIGHT. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Osmosis Mom]

Heather, It will work itself out. As you said, worst-case scenario is 2 years, but, you'll see, it'll happen before then.

 

And yes, following the rules and laws does not always (or mostly!) result in one's cases being approved or treated fairly. We should know as we got the green card the very last year we could legally stay here -after having lived, worked, paid taxes, been legal of course, and having applied several times before. Nah, come here and be illegal and you get a lot of stuff (and don't pay taxes!!).

 

BTW, I am not bashing illegal immigrants overall as I think people living south of the US border have so much suffering that sometimes crossing the border is all they can think of to survive. It's complicated.

 

:grouphug: to you, Heather.

[Audrey]

I agree that the articles from the other poster do explain why these laws are in place because human trafficking is a real issue and rules need to be followed to minimize the chance of it occurring. Using the articles to explain why these laws exist is completely legitimate in a post like this. Tearing Heather down for not fully investigating international adoption or for receiving faulty information about IA is not helpful at this point. It's just mean.

 

 

FWIW, the only reason I brought up human trafficking was because in Heather's OP it seemed like she was feeling that being denied was a personal judgement on her. I just wanted her to know that it WASN'T about her, it was a policy to prevent something really nasty. POlicies aren't about individuals, but unfortunately honest individuals get just as stymied by policies as the dishonest people the policies are targeting. It's not fair, but it is what it is. I am sorry she is so frustrated, but ... she should know that the denial (which is just a hiccup in the road) wasn't because she or her family were doing something bad or wrong.

[FaithManor]

Just for the information of the flaming crew who all say Heather should have known about the two year residency requirement....I just got correct information from the horse's mouth...called an international adoption agency north of Detroit who has successfully completed a Malaysian adoption. The residency requirements are all different depending on which part of Malaysia the US parent resides in as well as the adoptee...and it is not cut and dried as to how those residency requirements are applied. One can have one's home in one area but commute to the penninsula or to another part of the country part-time and the bureaucratic talking heads will decide where you reside. It is not only based on where your house is and especially if you rent and do not own the home, but it also depends on which part of Malaysia the child in question was born in and that is not always clearly defined if the child was abandoned at birth and the biological mother is not necessarily identified or if she resided in one area but birthed in another. Some parts of the country are far more prone to child trafficing than others and so this affects the stringency of the regulations. It is entirely possible to begin an adoptive process as residents of peninsular/not Sarawak or Sebah, Malaysia which only requires a one year residency in order to apply for the US immigratons visa and then suddenly find out the child is possibly from another part of the country and so now the residency requirement has changed.

 

These residency requirements have also changed regularly as the regs are being updated and so it's possible to also begin the process and then by the time it is completed, find that the requirements for an immigration visa have changed and possibly several times. So, I don't think anyone has any right to question Heather, "Weren't you aware????Blah, blah, blah..." From what I can tell of what Heather has described as her location in Malaysia, though I am no master of Malaysian geography by any stretch of the imagination, she should fall under the one year residency requirement which means either Natalie came from a different region so she falls under a different residency reg which causes lots of cunundrums most of us would not understand on this side of the big pond, or the US is asking for DNA testing and this paperwork request is just slower than molasses in January, to coin a phrase. This is a recent change to US/Malaysian adoption policy in which if the child is suspected of being from a specific people group or if a biological or suspected biological family has been identified, even post adoption finalization, by orphanage officials, DNA testing of the child may be demanded. The US is usually the requestor and the Malaysian officials take their merry old time notifying the adoptive family.

 

Faith

[Mrs Mungo]

Just for the information of the flaming crew who all say Heather should have known about the two year residency requirement....

 

I didn't read most of those people as flaming Heather, at all. I read them as trying to explain the reasons behind such requirements and that it wasn't something special that some government official was only applying to Heather. eta: I think the problem in Heather's case is that she wants to travel back and forth from the US to Malaysia. Again, that is a huge problem for ALL immigrants because the immigration process doesn't allow you to do that. I know a military wife who is from Canada. She was unable to travel home when her sister had a stroke because she had to stay in the US or risk being denied re-entry, having her green card revoked and possibly being denied citizenship.

 

When you read documents like this:

http://malaysia.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/adoption.pdf

 

It becomes very obvious that many of the requirements are trying to quell the enormous global problem of human trafficking. That's why they have a specific requirement that the adoptive parents (if there are two) be married, that they are a certain number of years older than the child, etc. Anyone who has ever been to Thailand could tell you that the Russian mafia has taken over large areas of Thailand specifically for this purpose. It's a travesty.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[astrid]

Please don't hold back Faith. I know many of us would love to know if you are adopting a new little one. That is such a wonderful blessing!!! Hoping and praying with you! If you decide not to post on the general board, I would love for you to pm me so I can pray for specific needs and be updated. :001_smile:

 

 

Yes, please! However, I'd suggest, gently, that you not use phrases like "illegals waltzing across the border" and "my rant on immigration" in your posts.

 

The OP has ever right to be upset and frustrated with the adoption situation. I dont' blame her; I'd be feeling the same thing were I in her shoes. But projecting her frustration on the desperate, life-and-death plight of immigrants in the Americas, well, that's another can of worms.

 

If someone made such sweeping, negative generalizations about homeschoolers, our collective panties would be in a twist, no? We'd all jump in to defend our position, to cite examples to the contrary, to educate the OP.

 

I don't think there's anyone whose posted on this thread who doesn't feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for Heather's plight. Honestly, I believe that. But the fact is that Heather's post, in addition to ranting about a personal situation, painted the hotbutton topic of immigration with a broad brush. Personally, I'm glad that so many viewpoints were shared. It renewed my committment to providing the best education I can possibly give my ESL students. They're all just trying to survive, just as we are.

 

JMHO. YMMV.

astrid

[lionfamily1999]

Yes, please! However, I'd suggest, gently, that you not use phrases like "illegals waltzing across the border" and "my rant on immigration" in your posts.

 

The OP has ever right to be upset and frustrated with the adoption situation. I dont' blame her; I'd be feeling the same thing were I in her shoes. But projecting her frustration on the desperate, life-and-death plight of immigrants in the Americas, well, that's another can of worms.

 

If someone made such sweeping, negative generalizations about homeschoolers, our collective panties would be in a twist, no? We'd all jump in to defend our position, to cite examples to the contrary, to educate the OP.

 

I don't think there's anyone whose posted on this thread who doesn't feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for Heather's plight. Honestly, I believe that. But the fact is that Heather's post, in addition to ranting about a personal situation, painted the hotbutton topic of immigration with a broad brush. Personally, I'm glad that so many viewpoints were shared. It renewed my committment to providing the best education I can possibly give my ESL students. They're all just trying to survive, just as we are.

 

JMHO. YMMV.

astrid

:iagree:

[Dayle in Guatemala]

Yes, please! However, I'd suggest, gently, that you not use phrases like "illegals waltzing across the border" and "my rant on immigration" in your posts.

 

The OP has ever right to be upset and frustrated with the adoption situation. I dont' blame her; I'd be feeling the same thing were I in her shoes. But projecting her frustration on the desperate, life-and-death plight of immigrants in the Americas, well, that's another can of worms.

 

If someone made such sweeping, negative generalizations about homeschoolers, our collective panties would be in a twist, no? We'd all jump in to defend our position, to cite examples to the contrary, to educate the OP.

 

I don't think there's anyone whose posted on this thread who doesn't feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for Heather's plight. Honestly, I believe that. But the fact is that Heather's post, in addition to ranting about a personal situation, painted the hotbutton topic of immigration with a broad brush. Personally, I'm glad that so many viewpoints were shared. It renewed my committment to providing the best education I can possibly give my ESL students. They're all just trying to survive, just as we are.

 

JMHO. YMMV.

astrid

 

 

We do need to be careful..you're right. I have friends here who were brought to the US because of the civil war happening here at the time and they were young children. They had amnesty. When their parents died in the US (they had lived there for decades and became tax-paying, law abiding members of society there) they were going through papers like kids do when their parents die and saw their immigration status. They were confused because they didn't know what "amnesty" meant. They called ICE to find out what they needed to do and literally a few weeks later, in the middle of the night, the FBI showed up at their house, arrested them, put them in jail for months, and then deported them back to Guatemala where they hadn't lived in YEARS.

 

Not all illegals are there because they skipped the boarder. Some find themselves in tough situations through no fault of their own.

 

Not to diminish Heather's frustration--and I don't think she was talking about situations like this at all. My heart breaks for families who have to deal with immigration issues like this. It's just sad.

[tex-mex]

Yes, please! However, I'd suggest, gently, that you not use phrases like "illegals waltzing across the border" and "my rant on immigration" in your posts.

 

The OP has ever right to be upset and frustrated with the adoption situation. I dont' blame her; I'd be feeling the same thing were I in her shoes. But projecting her frustration on the desperate, life-and-death plight of immigrants in the Americas, well, that's another can of worms.

 

If someone made such sweeping, negative generalizations about homeschoolers, our collective panties would be in a twist, no? We'd all jump in to defend our position, to cite examples to the contrary, to educate the OP.

 

I don't think there's anyone whose posted on this thread who doesn't feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for Heather's plight. Honestly, I believe that. But the fact is that Heather's post, in addition to ranting about a personal situation, painted the hotbutton topic of immigration with a broad brush. Personally, I'm glad that so many viewpoints were shared. It renewed my committment to providing the best education I can possibly give my ESL students. They're all just trying to survive, just as we are.

 

JMHO. YMMV.

astrid

:iagree: I feel for Heather -- but the comments she made were a hotbutton topic -- and most likely drove many to comment that way. Making a broad sweep of the brush with her comments is going to provoke many for not understanding immigration is a complicated subject.

 

My mother's side of the family are Tejanos -- back to the original land they immigrated from as Spanish citizens that later became Tejas/Texas. But were always treated like 2nd class citizens growing up in a West Texas town due to the fact many thought they were illegal by the color of their skin.

 

In my father's side of the family situation, back in the 1930's, my father (age 5) and his family (they were all born in the US) were living in Northern CA/Oregon border in a small town. One night, law enforcement showed up and made them leave immediately. No reason was given. Note this was during the Great Depression and many Mexican Americans were rounded up and deported to Mexico - the excuse back then was illegals were taking away jobs from deserving Americans. In 60% of those forced deportations, many later were found to have been (in my family's case) LEGAL US CITIZENS. To this day, there has not been an apology or any acknowledgment from the US Govt about this horrific deed. My father's parents lost their US home, job, had no income, were dumped in a town where no relatives lived, and my great-grandfather ended up murdered due to the fact Mexicans in that village saw him as a "AMERICANO". My great grandmother died of grief soon after and all of her children ended up homeless on the streets of Tijuana. It finally took WWII and the older boys (my uncles) to register for service for the US (ironic) and get US "citizenship" back -- as a result, they legally adopted my father years later and got him into the US.

 

As an adult, I discovered my father's birth certificate -- legally he was born in Chico, CA. But when the authorities came to raid the home that night, no one was allowed to get belongings or paperwork. They were packed in railroad boxcars with no seats or heating during the Wintertime. It was a travesty.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-04-1930s-deportees-cover_x.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

Edited December 14, 2010 by tex-mex

[cathmom]

I think the problem in Heather's case is that she wants to travel back and forth from the US to Malaysia. Again, that is a huge problem for ALL immigrants because the immigration process doesn't allow you to do that. I know a military wife who is from Canada. She was unable to travel home when her sister had a stroke because she had to stay in the US or risk being denied re-entry, having her green card revoked and possibly being denied citizenship.

 

 

 

Yeah, people, haven't you ever seen the movie French Kiss? :D

[Mejane]

She's entitled to feel the way she does about illegals.

 

No, she's really not. It doesn't have a thing to do with her particular problem. It's just a cruel comparison.

 

Maybe she didn't completely "do her homework" as someone mentioned about her adoption. Isn't it a little late & heartless to mention that to her now that the adoption is complete? Seems a little snarky.

 

Perhaps, but it's also snarky to compare one's privileged self as an American citizen with a temporary, fixable problem to people "waltzing across the border" in order to give their families some semblance of a life.

 

The problem she's facing now is being stuck in Malaysia with a daughter who is legally her child, but currently has no legal status in the US. Let's focus on that issue and either say something supportive, give her advice, or say nothing at all. I find it hypocritical that so many people are chastising her for showing no empathy towards illegal immigrants, yet in doing so are showing her no empathy for her frustrating situation.

 

She's been shown plenty of sympathy, which she would have gotten without the flames if only she had chosen to keep the rant on the immigration process and not gone off on immigrants.

 

 

 

.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yeah, people, haven't you ever seen the movie French Kiss? :D

 

That's totally different, she was immigrating TO Canada. ;)

[Lady Florida.]

I feel for Heather -- but the comments she made were a hotbutton topic -- and most likely drove many to comment that way. Making a broad sweep of the brush with her comments is going to provoke many for not understanding immigration is a complicated subject.

 

 

:iagree:I think if the part about people waltzing across the border had been left out, responses to this thread would be a lot different.

[tex-mex]

:iagree:I think if the part about people waltzing across the border had been left out, responses to this thread would be a lot different.

Most definitely. ;)

[Heather in Neverland]

Boy this eastern hemisphere time difference is really a pain. OK, I haven't the slightest idea how to multi-quote so I will just do a general response to two main areas:

 

whether or not I "did my homework"

whether or not I am an evil person who thinks all illegal immigrants should burn in hell

 

1. There are a lot of things flying around about whether or not I did my homework. This is funny. I am type-A, left-brained, NT, you name it. Of course I did my homework. There are several separate processes involved that are being confused here.

 

- there are no adoption agencies in Malaysia. All adoptions are considered private adoptions overseen by the malaysian government. According to Malaysian laws it CAN take UP TO 2 years to finalize the MALAYSIAN end of the adoption but it doesn't have to. The process is this: you get the baby (as a foster parent), you have the baby for 3 months, you get a court date, at this court date they decide HOW MUCH LONGER they are going to supervise you before your adoption is final. The least amount of time is 3 months. The most is 2 years. And it is completely up to the judge. Our judge chose 3 months. So after those 3 months were up we went to court again and they finalized it. There were lots of visits, paperwork submissions, money, etc that went along with it. But the MALAYSIAN end of the adoption is FINAL.

 

- Now that the malaysian end is final we submit a monstrous stack of paperwork for the I600 to the U.S. This is to get her classified as an orphan so we can finalize the adoption in the US and bring her to the US and get her citizenship. If everything is submitted according to their liking, it will take 2-3 months to get this approval. In fact, the USCIS in Bangkok (which is where our application was sent as it is the closest office) reviewed our app in less than a month. IF they had approved it, that would be the end of it. We would have her visa, she could go to the US. But they didn't approve it. WHY?

 

Well, there are 16 different reasons according to their letter and all of them are ridiculous. For instance, they want us to take our ahma (nanny/maid) on a 5 hour trip (one way) to KL to be fingerprinted because she helps take care of the baby. That MIGHT sound legit except for the fact that I could easily fire her the very next day, or a week later, or a month later and they would never know. So what is the purpose of this? More money of course.

 

About 11 of the reasons have to do with the wording in our home study. For instance, they say our home study does not have a "specific approval" of me and my dh to adopt the baby. But the very last line in the home study states "this application is supported without any objections". ??? They mention being unsure of our residential address even though it is on the home study THREE times.

 

They also say that the homestudy preparer (which is a malaysian government official representing the social welfare department...not just any old joe) did not state that he searched the child abuse registry in Malaysia to see if we are on it. This one is really funny. Why? There is NO child abuse registry in malaysia. How do I know that? It is ON THE USCIS WEBSITE!!!! They are rejecting my application because this guy did not check a registry that ACCORDING TO THEM DOESN'T EVEN EXIST.

 

Those are just a few examples. But all the rest are equally ridiculous. We are filing an appeal of course. Now if the appeal is denied...

 

There is a DIFFERENT process we can follow. This one requires us to have legal and physical custody of Natalie for two years before we can apply and it is an entirely different form and an entirely different process.

 

So that is where all the "two years" confusion is coming from. The problem is that it all seems quite arbitrary. We did everything they asked and she SHOULD be approved right now. They did NOT question "how" we got her and whether this was "trafficking" because we suppplied countless documents INCLUDING the birth mother's name, address and phone number. So the validity of the adoption is NOT their issue...they are just being picky about wording on this and that.

 

Technically, our contract here is up in June. If she doesn't get approved we "could" be in trouble. LUCKILY we have the option of renewing our contract for another year if we have to. But my mom (who is not well enough to travel here) still will not get to see her granddaughter until she is 2.5 years old and I think that is sad especially when the reason is ridiculous.

 

Whew.

 

Now as to my evilness regarding immigration...I am obviously a fan of immigration as I have or am trying to bring two children to the US through this process.:D And for every story you have about someone who had a tragic time trying to illegally enter the US, I know lots and lots of people both in Detroit and NC who entered this country illegally and did NOT have those troubles.

 

And really, to me it is not so much about whether they "waltzed" across the border or dragged themselves through the mud. The bottom line is they are IN THE COUNTRY and they got there ILLEGALLY. I am trying to get my daughter INTO THE COUNTRY and I am trying to do it LEGALLY and yet...we are still stuck in Malaysia unable to even visit our family.

 

Immigrants who entered illegally (and maybe went through a lot of awful things to do it) but are still IN THE COUNTRY....my daughter NOT in the country, trying to do it legally. yeah, I think I have the right to be aggravated.

[astrid]

And for every story you have about someone who had a tragic time trying to illegally enter the US, I know lots and lots of people both in Detroit and NC who entered this country illegally and did NOT have those troubles.

 

And really, to me it is not so much about whether they "waltzed" across the border or dragged themselves through the mud. The bottom line is they are IN THE COUNTRY and they got there ILLEGALLY. I am trying to get my daughter INTO THE COUNTRY and I am trying to do it LEGALLY and yet...we are still stuck in Malaysia unable to even visit our family.

 

Immigrants who entered illegally (and maybe went through a lot of awful things to do it) but are still IN THE COUNTRY....my daughter NOT in the country, trying to do it legally. yeah, I think I have the right to be aggravated.

 

I'm sorry....was the quote, in bold and italics above, ever in question?

I think many of us went overboard stating just how frustrating the whole situation is, and how much empathy we have for you. It seems to me your right to feel aggravated at the situation is NOT what people have take exception to.

 

But maybe I've read it all wrong.

 

astrid

[plansrme]

Heather,

 

I am so sorry that this thread has taken the turn it did. To imply--scratch that, to baldly assert--that you are uninformed or have not done your homework is insulting. You are right to be offended. You also are right to be frustrated at the treatment you have received.

 

I hope the process goes more smoothly from here on out.

 

Terri

[astrid]

Just to be clear, since you responded to my post, I did not assert that Heather did not do her homework, nor that she has no right to be frustrated. On the contrary.

 

astrid

Edited December 15, 2010 by astrid

[plansrme]

Just to be clear, since you responded to my post, I did not assert that Heather did not do her homework, nor that she has no right to be frustrated. On the contrary.

 

astrid

 

My post followed yours; that doesn't mean I was responding to you. There were earlier posters who said she didn't do her homework.

 

Terri

[Jean in Newcastle]

My post followed yours; that doesn't mean I was responding to you. There were earlier posters who said she didn't do her homework.

 

Terri

 

The first line in the OP states that she doesn't know enough about this topic to sound educated on it. She later says that they crossed every T and dotted every I but there is enough reason for people to think that she (and others planning to add to their family through international adoption) might need an explanation of how things are done. And there was some reason to think that she might not have done enough homework if she did not anticipate some of these outcomes. Other than a pointed rebuttal of some of her phrases against illegal immigrants in general, no one called her on the carpet or rebuked her specifically.

[Mejane]

nm

Edited December 15, 2010 by Mejane

[astrid]

The first line in the OP states that she doesn't know enough about this topic to sound educated on it. She later says that they crossed every T and dotted every I but there is enough reason for people to think that she (and others planning to add to their family through international adoption) might need an explanation of how things are done. And there was some reason to think that she might not have done enough homework if she did not anticipate some of these outcomes. Other than a pointed rebuttal of some of her phrases against illegal immigrants in general, no one called her on the carpet or rebuked her specifically.

 

Yes, there was that....

 

astrid

[Lolly]

I am one of the ones who questioned her lack of knowledge. To be quite honest, something was fiddling around in the back of my head. (My memory is just really too good.) It was just bothering me.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1391455&postcount=7

 

Also, to the poster who was looking up Malaysian adoption laws, the laws I was referring to are US laws for international adoptions. They are not specific to any particular part of Malaysia.

 

Now preparing my flame suit for posting this.

[Audrey]

I am one of the ones who questioned her lack of knowledge. To be quite honest, something was fiddling around in the back of my head. (My memory is just really too good.) It was just bothering me.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1391455&postcount=7

 

 

 

 

Oh. :001_huh:

That changes the perspective, doesn't it?

[Nakia]

I am one of the ones who questioned her lack of knowledge. To be quite honest, something was fiddling around in the back of my head. (My memory is just really too good.) It was just bothering me.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1391455&postcount=7

 

Also, to the poster who was looking up Malaysian adoption laws, the laws I was referring to are US laws for international adoptions. They are not specific to any particular part of Malaysia.

 

Now preparing my flame suit for posting this.

 

I'm not going to flame you, but may I point out something? The post you linked was written the day after Natalie was born. From what I recall, Heather found out about her right before she was born. Perhaps at the time of the linked post, she hadn't "done her homework" because it was all brand new. Maybe she only did a quick search or spoke only briefly with the Malaysian government. It is pretty obvious from her latest post on this thread that she did, in fact, do her homework when it came time to do it.

 

Just something to think about.

[astrid]

Oh. :001_huh:

That changes the perspective, doesn't it?

 

Certainly does.

 

astrid

[Mrs Mungo]

Heather, nobody said that you didn't have a right to be frustrated, annoyed, irritated or so forth. I think most people validated your feelings on that score. Nobody suggested that you were or would be questioned about human trafficking, people said that is the reason for some of these rules and it is a really good reason, no matter how annoying it makes it to work through the red tape.

 

My post followed yours; that doesn't mean I was responding to you. There were earlier posters who said she didn't do her homework.

 

Terri

 

Astrid has her view on threaded view. If you are on linear, depending upon how you responded, it might look like you responded to her.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Mrs Mungo