10 yr old dd's room is a toxic waste dump

[MrsMe]

.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[Danestress]

On one hand, I am hearing that you are on her constantly about these things and that you have taken away all of her stuff and made her earn it back.

 

On the other hand, I am hearing that you can't find her sheets, can't go in her room, etc.

 

I think what I would do is to take everything out of the room. Every single thing - as if you are packing to move. Think of it as packing to move, but not having to move anything from any room except hers. That's not so hard, is it? One room? I've moved seven times as an adult, twice cross country, so you can do that one room, even though it's a massive pain.

 

Get a bunch of moving boxes, moving tape, sharpies, etc.

 

And then label them all. "Winter Clothes, Beloved" "Winter clothes, just okay" "Toys beloved" "Toys Just Okay" "Pieces of stuff that I don't know where the other pieces are" "The clothes I am currently wearing most often" "My favorite books" "My baby books." Let her determine where items go - which box.

 

Pack every single thing she owns, starting with the stuff that she could do without for a week if she absolutely had to. Keep the most important things (A pair of pjs, her brush, one out fit of cloths" until the very last and pack those things in a suitcase.

 

This might take a week. You will have boxes in the hall way or garage or attic. Then on the day you pack that last box and the suitcase, start cleaning - wipe shelves and walls, vacuum well, make it immaculate and totally empty except for furniture. You may have a garage full of boxes and feel like her room is neat and the rest of the house is horrible, but you are working on her room.

 

Then wash her sheets and other bedding, including the pillow, make up her room, and giver her the suitcase.

 

Let her know that every 24 hours, she can have a box back. She will pick a box after one 24 hour period, you will pick the next box. Any day that her room is not completely picked up, she doesn't get the box back. So she would get the first box if, after 24 hours, her bed is made, there is nothing on or under it, the items in the suitcase are where the belong, and the suitcase is neatly stored. If anything is out of place, she doesn't get that box.

 

So she might pick a box on books for her first box. 24 hours later, if everything is exactly where it belongs, you might pick a box of additional clothing for her to have. If the items in those boxes are neatly put away and there is nothing on the floor, on the bed, under the bed, etc, then she gets another box the third day.

 

You can tell her that if she stalls out and isn't keeping the room clean after a while, whatever is still unpacked after 3 months goes to goodwill. If she lived without it for 3 months, she can continue to live without it.

[Pink Fairy]

I have one who would be like that if we let her. She shares a room with her very neat and organized sister, and if only out of fairness we can't allow her to wallow in her mess the way she'd like.

 

In your case, it sounds like dd has too much stuff. Take it out. Let her keep 5 outfits, so that even if they aren't put away properly it's not going to be that much of a mess. If she can't clean up after the guinea pig, then the guinea pig goes bye-bye. Same with books and toys. A play room won't mean a clean bedroom, just a messy playroom AND a messy room.

 

We have several boxes of toys, etc. that were confiscated--they haven't been missed. The older I get, the more I realize that we don't need that much.

[Trish]

You've taken things away, and given them back based on what? Take them away and keep them away until she starts utilizing your routines for order in the bathroom and bedroom. I like the suitcase/box idea stated above.

 

If she has too much stuff to begin with, she may be overwhelmed at what keeping things orderly entails. Let her build better habits with the more limited things. I can sympathize because whenever there are too many things in my house I easily get overwhelmed with it, and have to start giving things to charity, tossing out, etc.

 

With the holiday season coming up it now would be a good time to get a handle on this. Good luck!

[Stacy in NJ]

If she can't manage her own belongings she's not responsible enough to have any. Take all the stuff out of her room and organize it in another room or area of your home. Boxes or plastic containers would be ideal. Strip her room down to only the items she needs immediately (toothbrush, pj's, one change of clothes). Return her stuff only as she shows she can be responsible with the stuff she has.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

They could appear on an episode of Hoarders.

 

I could have written your post, word for word.

 

He leaves a trail of scrap paper and cardboard where ever he's been.

 

Too much stuff. We throw out toys, pare down clothing and still...

 

His desk is cluttered with scraps of paper, rubber bands, parts of pens, old shoelaces (he's always making things).

 

His mind is never on picking up. It's onto the next thing. The next idea.

 

I feel your pain and I'm reading all the responses.

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

K

[MrsMe]

.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[Plucky]

My youngest is kind of like this - not as bad, but I also don't let her get that bad. My kids are expected to tidy their rooms most days and I check before any fun stuff like tv, computer, etc. occurs. I inspect the room and point out what needs done. Every now and then I help them organize and declutter their rooms. They love the result and we try to make it fun. I see this as training. I'm not a super strict mom and really focus on relationship. I do nag and deal out consequences. We aren't perfect here and I don't expect perfection, but when kids share rooms they have to be considerate of each other's space.

 

As far as the rest of the house goes, we tidy a few times a day and everyone picks up their stuff and maybe a siblings depending on who is around.

[myfunnybunch]

I have a dd who was...organizationally challenged. It took a lot of teaching over and over, and frustration on both our parts to get to a point of compromise. (She can now keep her space relatively manageable.)

 

If your dd has so much stuff you can't walk in her room, she has too much stuff. I'd bet she's overwhelmed too.

 

I too would empty her room. Then I'd let her choose what to put back, with limits: Enough outfits to last a few days, 3-4 special toys that she plays with often. I'd take out the books and keep them in another part of the house, perhaps wherever you were considering making a play room. Everything else gets boxed and put away until needed or traded for an item already out. I would make sure to present this as a solution and a way to teach rather than a punishment. Once she can manage her things, you can allow more and more back in her room.

 

In the bathroom: One washcloth. When she takes her towel and clothing to the washer, she gets a clean washcloth and towel for the next day.

 

Bedding: On Saturdays ( for example...you choose the day), she strips the bed. When she takes the sheets to the washer, she gets a new set of sheets.

 

Toys and items left out in the common area become Mom's. If you want to keep your things, you put them away. (I sometimes offered gentle reminders--I'm about to do a quick tidy. Want to run through and make sure you've gotten your stuff picked up?)

 

Give her a small area (her closet, for example, or the top of her dresser) to be messy. Mine needed this. Why? Who knows. But she did and it helped to have a place that she didn't have to worry about keeping clean. My husband needs this too. There is a shelf in our closet that I can't even look at.

 

Before I did all of this, I would sit down with her and let her know that you want to help her. Together, choose 2-3 areas to focus on. Maybe you pick your most troublesome area, she chooses one and you both choose one together. Then empty the room. Then make a plan together to tackle the areas you most want to improve. If it's toothbrushing, you might have to stay with her every. single. stinkin'. night. while she brushes and remind her of the routine. A list on the mirror only works if she uses it. Make it a game...how much can you remember to do before Mom has to remind you? How fast can you go? how thorough can you be?

 

You also need to make a conscious choice to protect your relationship. I know your daughter *should* be able to pick up her things. But she sounds like a child who isn't there, and all of the wanting her to be there in the world isn't going to get her there overnight. Choose your battles wisely. Work on only a few issues at a time so you don't overwhelm and frustrate both of you. Find things you enjoy doing together so that your relationship time isn't taken up by dealing with mess. It is a looooooong process. Constant teaching. I have one like this, so I feel your pain.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Cat

[MrsMe]

.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[MrsMe]

.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[Plucky]

 

I've taken them away and given them back based on her keeping her room clean for a duration of time. And it varies from year to year. Sounds like it needs to be long enough for a habit. What i despise is all the junk she then creates! Throwing out a box she made a "home" out of for a stuffed animal...YIKES! I tell her she's had it long enough and doesn't play with it.

 

Oh, the boxes and crafty stuff. Ugh. My dd has a few boxes in her room right now. I tell her she cannot have another box until she gets rid of the others. She is down to 3, but stores them inside each other. You do have to limit the items. Have you considered showing her a hoarders show? So often these kids are very sentimental about things. Mine is.

[Allearia]

I agree about taking everything out of her room, but you still have to be on top of her. It has to become a habit for her. Every time she brushes her teeth you need to go in and remind her to wipe out the sink and clean up immediately and be right there to make sure it is done. She will hate it. Every time she gets into pajamas, you must go in immediately and make sure she puts the clothes in the hamper. Every time she gets a toy out, you must supervise and make sure she puts it back in the right place.

 

She will hate it, you will hate it. But this is what has to be done. It has to be firmly entrenched in her brain, a habit. Do this for about a month. Otherwise this same exact thing will keep happening. It will be overwhelming for her when things pile up and she won't know how to deal with it and will put it off.

 

You will slowly be able to graduate to a checklist of every single thing (clean sink, put cap on toothpaste, put toothbrush in cup. Get dressed, put pajamas in hamper, make bed. Put toys away every hour. Clean cage, get rid of old litter, put supplies away.)

 

Eventually she will be so grateful that she has these habits. You won't have to be on top of her any more. If you can just get through a time of doing this (and no guarantees of how long--see it as a process) it will pay off.

 

Let's just say, I wish someone had done this for me when I was ten. It is so much harder doing it for yourself when you are 30.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have a dd who is much like yours. We went through her room and got rid of a lot of stuff. Everything else that she has goes into a labeled storage box (ie. "doll clothes", "hair care" etc.) I have one shelf that is for her creations. When that shelf is full, she must either throw out new creations right away, or make room by throwing out old creations. I stress to her that I think it is great that she is so creative and makes these things but it really is the process that is the most benefit in all of this. Every day we have a clean up time for her room. I am ruthless in enforcing clean up time. Occasionally circumstances will mean that we don't get to clean-up time but I never let it go longer than 2 days before the room is clean. It must be clean before she can go to bed. And while it is a pain for me, I have to be the one to go and check out her room. I don't say much - I just point to what is out.

[Laurie4b]

I was one of those children. All of my parents ravings and yelling and punishments and "you'll stay in your room until it's clean" etc. didn't work because I really couldn't do it. All they did was raise the anxiety/shame level and make it much worse.

 

I now think it is actually a learning disability involving spatial organization and working memory and not a moral issue. (Working memory is your ability to keep things in your mind while you're working on other things. Picture a workbench. If most people's minds can hold about 7 items without one falling off the "bench," someone with deficits may only be able to hold 2 or 3 items . Any new thing pushes something else off the workbench. So people with working memory issues may very well not remember to put lids on things--their minds go to the next thing or the thing that just caught their attention and remembering to put the lid back falls right off the bench.)

 

So punishing, consequences, etc. don't do any more good than they would for not reading well for a child with an LD in reading. The situation is probably overwhelming and anxiety-producing to your dd as it is. Your post reads as if you are also overwhelmed with the situation (understandable) and frustrated/annoyed with dd (also natural). You'll have to work on un-overwhelming yourself so that you can approach this as dd's ally.

Some suggestions:

Check out flylady.net . Her system is build on changing one thing at a time--babystep by babystep. Read through her stuff for new flybabies. For adult women, flylady has them first really clean their kitchen sink so that it really looks good. That is the first habit and the go-back-to habit. Her philosophy is that the kitchen is the heart of the home and having a really clean sink 1) gives you a sense of satisfaction because it was one thing that you were asked to do and you got it done and 2) sets the ball rolling in a positive direction wherein you tend to want the rest of the kitchen to look the same. So pick a focal point of the bedroom--maybe the bed. Help her clean it off, wash the sheets together, and remake it. Then focus on her making it every day and keeping stuff off of it. If she does that, she has succeded. No fuss about anything else in the room.

 

Flylady's whole system is set up to help full grown women who have the same struggles as your dd. If you can adapt her approach to your dd's room, and gradually help her expand it to other areas as she gets older, you will have done her a world of good. If you could adopt Flylady's attitudes, I think you'd see a ton of difference in your dd.

 

2. The book Women with Attention Deficit Disorder by Sari Solden http://www.amazon.com/Women-Attention-Deficit-Disorder-Differences/dp/1887424970/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1290884675&sr=8 has an excellent chapter on struggles with organization of objects that women with ADD have. Even if your dd doesn't have ADD (but I wouldn't rule that out entirely), the chapter will help you see things through her eyes.

 

3. ADD Friendly Organization is another book that is helpful. People with your dd's issues cannot usually use the same systems that other people do. They often are relying on visual cues, for instance, to help with their memory, so need to be able to see things.

 

Your dd may well need fewer things in order for her to be able to keep up with things, but please don't take things away as a consequence. If it is a kind of LD for her, this just adds shame and frustration to the challenges she already has--plus you've said you've tried it and it really hasn't worked. She may need to reduce her things, but come up with that as a solution together.

 

You may need to hire someone who can help your dd without getting frustrated with her. This is easier for a stranger than for a mother. Older teens are often good at this and not too pricey. You may want to hire the help to get her room in decent shape, then try the Flylady routines to keep it there.

 

If it's not an LD type thing and you treat it as one, you've addressed the problem. If it is an LD and you treat it as a moral failing, you haven't solved the original problem and have added another one.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Laurie4b

[dirty ethel rackham]

She sounds like me - organizationally challenged and I grew up with a neat-freak mom. (I just spent the day culling and cleaning as penance for my messy ways - actually, our family's messy ways.) Our house will never be perfect, but I know to get help when I need to (as in a professional organizer and a semi-regular cleaning woman.)

 

About your daughter, she is probably too overwhelmed to be able to clean effectively. You say you are on her like ... on ...., but how is your tone? Is it a nagging tone? She sounds like she needs your help and structure. She doesn't know what to do with stuff and she doesn't have the self-discipline to put things away. You have a choice ... you can go crazy and be angry with her all the time or you can cheerfully help her stay on task. Some people say a 10 yo should be mature enough to be able to do this independently, but it is clear she is not. Heck, I am 47 and I still do not have the required skills. I am better than I was at 10, but I have the responsibility of the entire house now.

 

Seriously, I would spend a day in her room and do some serious culling. If everything does not have a place, it can't stay in there. Also, I would institute several supervised "straightenings" per day. Supervised as in telling her where to start and reminding her how to put things away. Helpful questions such as "Is that where that goes?" or "Is that how you put that in there?" said in a cheerful tone can go a long way in helping her not see cleaning as something horrible to be rushed through. In exchange for the extra time it takes you to help her, she can be your helper in other areas of the house.

 

I know I drove my mom crazy. Unfortunately, most of my childhood memories of my mom are of her being angry with me for my messiness. I do wish she had just accepted that I needed her help, teaching and guidance for a lot longer than she expected rather than her spending most of the time angry with me for not measuring up. It took a long time for us to develop a close relationship that was not hampered by the baggage of that discord and judgment.

 

I hope this doesn't come off as too harsh. I don't mean it to be. I understand your frustration ... I have a couple organizationally challenged children as well. But, when I read your post, I was immediately transported to those dreaded Saturdays of my childhood.

[mcconnellboys]

http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/eh/a/executive_funct.htm

 

My younger son has some similar difficulties. He always seems very thankful (and incredulous) when I come in and deep clean his room. Paring down number of things in a room is helpful, I think. A set place for everything is helpful, too, but he still has to be constantly reminded of where that is.

 

He has a hamper in his room, but I still have to remind him to put dirty clothes there. In spite of the fact that there's plenty of room for him to line up his shoes in his closet floor, he recently very proudly had them lined up across the entrance to his room, instead. So kids who have these problems need constant visual and verbal reminders. Not fussing, just prompting.

 

I just do daily reminders. "Put these dirty clothes (pointing to them) into your hamper." "Put these shoes (pointing to them) into your closet." And I watch while it happens, giving encouragement.

 

And I try to get him into daily/weekly routines, too. "Make your bed now, please, before we start school." Every morning. For years.

 

I've literally been saying, "Brush your teeth and put on your head gear," and in the morning, "Put on your clothes and brush your teeth," for years, too.

 

Every Monday, I say, "Please sort your colored and white clothes into two piles and bring them to the laundry room for me," then watch as he does it. When the clothes are dry, I say, "Please put your clothes on hangars and put them away," and watch as he does it. Well, I don't have to watch any more, but I did for a long, long time, offering instruction or encouragement as he did the work....

 

He now folds all towels used in the house and puts all those away for me, but I still have to correct at times when I find towels in the wrong places....

 

I know an adult who has this difficulty and she is the one who brought it to my attention, but I already knew that something was up with him since he was completely unlike his older brother.

 

For the cat's litter box, which he is now responsible for, we just keep a check on it and remind him when it's time to empty it, then check to make sure he's done it. I also have to sometimes follow behind him and check to make sure he didn't skip any of the trash cans around the house when he's emptying those.

 

Surprisingly, we have not had to worry about him forgetting to feed the cat and change her water - ever. He's always been great with that and he was little when he started doing it. I'm guessing that your daughter is the same with the pets she really loves. Explaining to her the dangers of leaving their filth (both for them and for her or others entering the room) will probably help her to remember to remove it, but you will probably have to direct that, too, for quite some time in order to establish it as a routine part of changing their cage.

 

Folks who have this problem just seem to have difficulty in following through with all the steps necessary to complete any sort of even a seemingly simple task.

 

A solid routine with constant follow up seems to be the only way we've found to help him establish appropriate patterns of behavior.

 

And I still walk around the house saying, "Please pick up this wrapper and throw it in the garbage. That's what trash cans are for." Every time he chews a piece of gum or opens a piece of candy, he puts the wrapper down on a table top somewhere instead of in a trash can. It just takes constant reminders. I'm not (generally) fussing or nagging about it. I'm just reminding nicely and explaining the reasoning behind the thing I'm asking for.

 

So I can't say definitely that this is what your daughter is experiencing - but she sounds very much like my son....

[Plucky]

Very good post. I believe my dd that has this problem has ADD. My ds that is dxed with ADHD has organizational problems, too. He just doesn't hoard. He dislikes caring for too many things and so is a big tosser when we declutter.

 

While I said that I nag, it is a gentle nagging, just matter of fact.

 

I was one of those children. All of my parents ravings and yelling and punishments and "you'll stay in your room until it's clean" etc. didn't work because I really couldn't do it. All they did was raise the anxiety/shame level and make it much worse.

 

I now think it is actually a learning disability involving spatial organization and working memory and not a moral issue. (Working memory is your ability to keep things in your mind while you're working on other things. Picture a workbench. If most people's minds can hold about 7 items without one falling off the "bench," someone with deficits may only be able to hold 2 or 3 items . Any new thing pushes something else off the workbench. So people with working memory issues may very well not remember to put lids on things--their minds go to the next thing or the thing that just caught their attention and remembering to put the lid back falls right off the bench.)

 

So punishing, consequences, etc. don't do any more good than they would for not reading well for a child with an LD in reading. The situation is probably overwhelming and anxiety-producing to your dd as it is. Your post reads as if you are also overwhelmed with the situation (understandable) and frustrated/annoyed with dd (also natural). You'll have to work on un-overwhelming yourself so that you can approach this as dd's ally.

 

Some suggestions:

Check out flylady.net . Her system is build on changing one thing at a time--babystep by babystep. Read through her stuff for new flybabies. For adult women, flylady has them first really clean their kitchen sink so that it really looks good. That is the first habit and the go-back-to habit. Her philosophy is that the kitchen is the heart of the home and having a really clean sink 1) gives you a sense of satisfaction because it was one thing that you were asked to do and you got it done and 2) sets the ball rolling in a positive direction wherein you tend to want the rest of the kitchen to look the same. So pick a focal point of the bedroom--maybe the bed. Help her clean it off, wash the sheets together, and remake it. Then focus on her making it every day and keeping stuff off of it. If she does that, she has succeded. No fuss about anything else in the room.

 

Flylady's whole system is set up to help full grown women who have the same struggles as your dd. If you can adapt her approach to your dd's room, and gradually help her expand it to other areas as she gets older, you will have done her a world of good. If you could adopt Flylady's attitudes, I think you'd see a ton of difference in your dd.

 

2. The book Women with Attention Deficit Disorder by Sari Solden http://www.amazon.com/Women-Attention-Deficit-Disorder-Differences/dp/1887424970/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1290884675&sr=8 has an excellent chapter on struggles with organization of objects that women with ADD have. Even if your dd doesn't have ADD (but I wouldn't rule that out entirely), the chapter will help you see things through her eyes.

 

3. ADD Friendly Organization is another book that is helpful. People with your dd's issues cannot usually use the same systems that other people do. They often are relying on visual cues, for instance, to help with their memory, so need to be able to see things.

 

Your dd may well need fewer things in order for her to be able to keep up with things, but please don't take things away as a consequence. If it is a kind of LD for her, this just adds shame and frustration to the challenges she already has--plus you've said you've tried it and it really hasn't worked. She may need to reduce her things, but come up with that as a solution together.

 

You may need to hire someone who can help your dd without getting frustrated with her. This is easier for a stranger than for a mother. Older teens are often good at this and not too pricey. You may want to hire the help to get her room in decent shape, then try the Flylady routines to keep it there.

 

If it's not an LD type thing and you treat it as one, you've addressed the problem. If it is an LD and you treat it as a moral failing, you haven't solved the original problem and have added another one.

[Rhonda in TX]

I was one of those children. All of my parents ravings and yelling and punishments and "you'll stay in your room until it's clean" etc. didn't work because I really couldn't do it. All they did was raise the anxiety/shame level and make it much worse.

 

I now think it is actually a learning disability involving spatial organization and working memory and not a moral issue. (Working memory is your ability to keep things in your mind while you're working on other things. Picture a workbench. If most people's minds can hold about 7 items without one falling off the "bench," someone with deficits may only be able to hold 2 or 3 items . Any new thing pushes something else off the workbench. So people with working memory issues may very well not remember to put lids on things--their minds go to the next thing or the thing that just caught their attention and remembering to put the lid back falls right off the bench.)

 

So punishing, consequences, etc. don't do any more good than they would for not reading well for a child with an LD in reading. The situation is probably overwhelming and anxiety-producing to your dd as it is. Your post reads as if you are also overwhelmed with the situation (understandable) and frustrated/annoyed with dd (also natural). You'll have to work on un-overwhelming yourself so that you can approach this as dd's ally.

Some suggestions:

Check out flylady.net . Her system is build on changing one thing at a time--babystep by babystep. Read through her stuff for new flybabies. For adult women, flylady has them first really clean their kitchen sink so that it really looks good. That is the first habit and the go-back-to habit. Her philosophy is that the kitchen is the heart of the home and having a really clean sink 1) gives you a sense of satisfaction because it was one thing that you were asked to do and you got it done and 2) sets the ball rolling in a positive direction wherein you tend to want the rest of the kitchen to look the same. So pick a focal point of the bedroom--maybe the bed. Help her clean it off, wash the sheets together, and remake it. Then focus on her making it every day and keeping stuff off of it. If she does that, she has succeded. No fuss about anything else in the room.

 

Flylady's whole system is set up to help full grown women who have the same struggles as your dd. If you can adapt her approach to your dd's room, and gradually help her expand it to other areas as she gets older, you will have done her a world of good. If you could adopt Flylady's attitudes, I think you'd see a ton of difference in your dd.

 

2. The book Women with Attention Deficit Disorder by Sari Solden http://www.amazon.com/Women-Attention-Deficit-Disorder-Differences/dp/1887424970/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1290884675&sr=8 has an excellent chapter on struggles with organization of objects that women with ADD have. Even if your dd doesn't have ADD (but I wouldn't rule that out entirely), the chapter will help you see things through her eyes.

 

3. ADD Friendly Organization is another book that is helpful. People with your dd's issues cannot usually use the same systems that other people do. They often are relying on visual cues, for instance, to help with their memory, so need to be able to see things.

 

Your dd may well need fewer things in order for her to be able to keep up with things, but please don't take things away as a consequence. If it is a kind of LD for her, this just adds shame and frustration to the challenges she already has--plus you've said you've tried it and it really hasn't worked. She may need to reduce her things, but come up with that as a solution together.

 

You may need to hire someone who can help your dd without getting frustrated with her. This is easier for a stranger than for a mother. Older teens are often good at this and not too pricey. You may want to hire the help to get her room in decent shape, then try the Flylady routines to keep it there.

 

If it's not an LD type thing and you treat it as one, you've addressed the problem. If it is an LD and you treat it as a moral failing, you haven't solved the original problem and have added another one.

 

This is excellent. I strongly second this. (I was this child as well and continue to struggle as an adult. I was diagnosed with ADD as an adult.)

[myfunnybunch]

Is there a self help group for us moms?

 

Create....yep...out of anything. I love someone who can commiserate with me. :lol:

 

Yes, this is my dd too. She used to make things out of tape. Elaborate things.

 

Have you seen this?

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm

 

Cat

[LittleIzumi]

Can you take away all of her clothes into your room (maybe one of those portable garment racks) and then every day she has to come & ask for her outfit for the day & return her dirty one from the day before? And after a week or two of that she can have two days' worth at once, as long as it all goes in the hamper on her own, and if not, it's back to her asking for her clothes every day & returning them to you.

 

And I don't think she needs a separate play area. I think she needs a separate ART area, and no art may be done in her room.

[MrsMe]

.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[Cindyz]

At the same time everyday (we do it before bedtime), we go through my son's room and play areas and clean up and put everything away. He is 6 so I have to say, "pick up that car and put it in the car box. Get these pajama pants and take them to the dirty clothes.", etc. So I tell him exactly what to do and the hope is that he will eventually learn where each thing goes, etc. Doing it with him every single day means that things cannot pile up and get out of control. I hope that if we keep at it, he will internalize the routine as he gets older and be able to eventually do it himself.

[Laurie4b]

I'm glad to hear from some of you that are this way. I am (okay, used to be) a clean freak. I have mellowed considerably. To the point that my house is never clean and because it seems no longer worth the effort it takes for it to stay that way past an hour. I've gotten discouraged and downright annoyed because I feel that it's a lack of respect. I respect everyone else's space, but no one respects mine.

 

DH says dd is like him. I don't know where to go with that since I'm the opposite. How hard is it to put something away after you use it? Or file it when you're finished? Very hard if you don't realize what you're actually doing with stuff. I can be in the kitchen, look around and go "What happened!" Really, read that chapter in Women with ADD. It will help. My dh read it and said, "Is this really true? Because I'm thinking that the trash can was right.there." So...I have changed myself to the point where I'm am disgusted with everything around me just to make everyone else happy. I am not a sterile person, but I hate, hate, clutter and junk. It messes with my mind. Obviously it bothers no one.

 

Flylady. Funny as I am trying to figure out whether to have dd clean up daily It needs to be more than daily. If you use Flylady, you can gradually establish routines. Flylady breaks things up into little tiny steps to do and small time chunks. or use "Kelly" for kids, which I have all printed out and laminated to give dd on a regular basis. :tongue_smilie:

 

I had dd do it weekly, so I just NOT let myself in there to see it. "I" only had to deal with it then. But it was a HUGE task. And I can't imagine friends coming over and playing admist dirty clothing. yuck, yuck.

 

Everyone has been very helpful, but Laurie you may have something. DD lacks a huge amount of focus. I can tell her to do something a ton of times and she doesn't. Another pain in my butt. So I give her one thing at a time as she can't do more than one command. Just yesterday, I looked at her and told her to put something away. One, two, the third was the charm. I have things to do as well and I suppose I'll have to hover. It is absolutely exhausting to be someone else's executive function. The moms of ADHD kids all suffer with it. Medication or Cogmed (a research-based software program to improve working memory) may help. We've just been doing this for years and years and it seems nothing works. I feel scattered, tired and sick of constantly being on her.

 

On the other hand, she's totally un-academic (if that's a word), but remembers everything. Go figure. Like math. She forgot nothing all summer. Books...remembers. Movies, remembers lines. But can't remember anything I tell her.

 

Working memory is not the same as longterm memory. You are describing longterm memory here. Working memory is the capacity of your mental workbench that you have to keep in your mind at the same time.

 

Perhaps I need to look up ADD. Can someone direct me to this for kids?

 

The resources I already cited should be very helpful to you. Driven to Distraction is another good introduction. ADDitude magazine is online, but I don't know that it has a list of symptoms, but it does have lots of tips. I would take your dd for an evaluation. There is enough in your posts to suspect ADD.

 

I can see how the house situation would be even more upsetting if you perceive it as a lack of respect. If you can start to shift that to understanding that dd and dh may not be able to do what you do and certainly cannot do it automatically as you do, that may help.

 

It may also be worth it to hire some part-time housekeeping help so that you are not stuck with a house that jangles your last nerve and are also not the one responsible for keeping it from getting like that. It may further help if dh, not you, helps dd with her room.

 

On the other hand, disgust/contempt is a very potent form of shame. That will not help either dh or dd to be able to contribute as much as they can to helping the situation.

 

You might try posting on the special needs forum to see what mothers of ADD kids have found successful in helping their kids.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Laurie4b

[MrsMe]

Thanks Laurie...you have been very helpful. I will go back and read that.

 

I did find an online system checklist and I can check them all under "Inattention", but really almost none in hyperactivity and impulsivity.

http://www.onlineorganizing.com/ExpertAdviceToolboxTips.asp?tipsheet=82

[fairfarmhand]

Can you take away all of her clothes into your room (maybe one of those portable garment racks) and then every day she has to come & ask for her outfit for the day & return her dirty one from the day before? And after a week or two of that she can have two days' worth at once, as long as it all goes in the hamper on her own, and if not, it's back to her asking for her clothes every day & returning them to you.

 

And I don't think she needs a separate play area. I think she needs a separate ART area, and no art may be done in her room.

 

 

This is a good idea!!!! And all her projects must stay in the ART room on the table, not carted all over the house!

 

I have a dd that is much like yours. Clean everything out of her room. At age 10, she is part little girl, part young lady. So many of the trappings of childhood that she wants to hold onto, but may not necessarily be useful for her now. So box up every thing. And when she asks for it, maybe find a place for it. But if she's like my dd, out of sight means out of mind and mine would never mention it again.

 

Take baby steps with her.

[Punks in Ontario]

On one hand, I am hearing that you are on her constantly about these things and that you have taken away all of her stuff and made her earn it back.

 

On the other hand, I am hearing that you can't find her sheets, can't go in her room, etc.

 

I think what I would do is to take everything out of the room. Every single thing - as if you are packing to move. Think of it as packing to move, but not having to move anything from any room except hers. That's not so hard, is it? One room? I've moved seven times as an adult, twice cross country, so you can do that one room, even though it's a massive pain.

 

Get a bunch of moving boxes, moving tape, sharpies, etc.

 

And then label them all. "Winter Clothes, Beloved" "Winter clothes, just okay" "Toys beloved" "Toys Just Okay" "Pieces of stuff that I don't know where the other pieces are" "The clothes I am currently wearing most often" "My favorite books" "My baby books." Let her determine where items go - which box.

 

Pack every single thing she owns, starting with the stuff that she could do without for a week if she absolutely had to. Keep the most important things (A pair of pjs, her brush, one out fit of cloths" until the very last and pack those things in a suitcase.

 

This might take a week. You will have boxes in the hall way or garage or attic. Then on the day you pack that last box and the suitcase, start cleaning - wipe shelves and walls, vacuum well, make it immaculate and totally empty except for furniture. You may have a garage full of boxes and feel like her room is neat and the rest of the house is horrible, but you are working on her room.

 

Then wash her sheets and other bedding, including the pillow, make up her room, and giver her the suitcase.

 

Let her know that every 24 hours, she can have a box back. She will pick a box after one 24 hour period, you will pick the next box. Any day that her room is not completely picked up, she doesn't get the box back. So she would get the first box if, after 24 hours, her bed is made, there is nothing on or under it, the items in the suitcase are where the belong, and the suitcase is neatly stored. If anything is out of place, she doesn't get that box.

 

So she might pick a box on books for her first box. 24 hours later, if everything is exactly where it belongs, you might pick a box of additional clothing for her to have. If the items in those boxes are neatly put away and there is nothing on the floor, on the bed, under the bed, etc, then she gets another box the third day.

 

You can tell her that if she stalls out and isn't keeping the room clean after a while, whatever is still unpacked after 3 months goes to goodwill. If she lived without it for 3 months, she can continue to live without it.

Man, I wish I'd heard of this about 15 years ago. My messy has moved out - and her chaos with her. LOL.

[MrsMe]

.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[MIch elle]

I wish you well in getting organized.

Edited November 27, 2010 by MIch elle

[Peela]

I 2nd Flylady. Doing it myself made me see how expecting my kids to just be able to "clean their room" was not realistic, compassionate or fair.

I used to be messy so I did immediately see the point and was able to work with it. I have plenty of compassion for messy people as an ex messy. Dh on the other hand was the clean freak and coulndt understand why everyone didnt just put things away straight after using them etc, because to him that was a habit he formed early in life. The mess upset him considerably until he sort of "gave up" like you have- but he didnt enjoy that. Flylady helped me...probably saved our marriage.

If you are of the opposite tendency to your dd....that is probably why you are clashing over this and havent found the solution. Its hard to understand someone who has the polar opposite tendency to yourself- and hard to understand why they don't follow through when you ask them to do something. But just because it is self evident to you,doesnt mean it is to a child. Sometimes we really have to get down on our knees and see things from their perspective ( I had to do that with my husband, the neat freak, but it took me years- he is older than me and I had no experience "keeping house" when we got together wheras he had it down pat).

 

I think opposites attract and we need to learn from our opposite (as you are). My dd16 is very messy and we call her the family Piglet. But she is also an artist, very very creative, and a very easy going personality- and to her, the mess is just part of her creative process. She did start to learn to tidy her room in her teens, but her way of doing it is long and creative and she examines everything- it will take half a day, but she enjoys it now. The motivation is having friends over, especially of the male variety nowadays.

 

I think its really important that it is taken out of the context of parent/child power struggle. It is important the child feel loved even though they are completely opposite to yourself- that they dont feel shame for their own natural tendencies. Its much more pleasant to go into a child's room, play some music, put on a timer, and with a cheerful mood, help them get a handle on their stuff, than be full of impatience and resentment and, from the child's perspective, constantly nag. Even with the idea of giving them a routine...it really is up to the parent to follow through every single time...and with a good attitude. I took it as a teaching task.

I think we often expect our kids to see things from a more mature perspective than they are capable...and we have to really step out of our own viewpoint and see theirs, to come back into balance with them.

[MrsMe]

.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[mcconnellboys]

My sister's oldest daughter seems to have this problem, too (so maybe it runs in families). She drastically limited the things she had in her room, but still worried about her when she got married and went out on her own. She did a lot of the same things I did over the years, with the constant, daily redirection. Surprisingly, she is actually doing pretty well with taking care of their apartment. It's not perfect; but it's not the disaster my sister feared....

 

I know that it can be frustrating, because it seems that you shouldn't have to say/do such basic things over and over again for literally years. But this really does seem to be what it takes for these kids.

 

If my oldest had been the same way, or if my sister hadn't experienced this with her own daughter, I would have thought it was "just boys" who were like this. But it's not!

 

I really don't think this is an oppositional thing or a laziness, etc. at all.... I really think it's a problem with being able to organize and follow through with step by step requirements in accomplishing simple tasks....

 

Hang in there....

[MIch elle]

peace

Edited November 27, 2010 by MIch elle

[MrsMe]

I'm too nice to go further.

Edited November 27, 2010 by alilac

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Yes, this is my dd too. She used to make things out of tape. Elaborate things.

 

Have you seen this?

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm

 

Cat

 

Thanks for this link.

 

The visual-spatial learner description fits my 12 year old to a "T" of course, my 14 year old fits the description of a auditory-sequential learner to a "T"!!

 

One wants to be a mechanical engineer and the other a computer programmer:tongue_smilie:

 

The messy mechanical engineer uses up all my paperclips, rubber bands, pens and tape to make gadgets and weapons. Drives me nuts. Also, he never knows what day or month it is no matter how many times I drill him on it.

 

The computer programmer is a neat nick and getting straight A's in his French class!

 

Funny how they came from the same parents!

[sagira]

I haven't even read the first post, as the OP deleted it, but :grouphug:

 

My house is practically a toxic waste dump and I feel you, it can be very frustrating.

[elfgivas]

its tough when our kids have different personalities than we do. it may be ADD, but it may also just be an "nfp" in action. we have 3 in our house, and it sounds like all three of us.

 

we do fifteen minutes in our rooms after breakfast, and often another 15 after lunch. we break that down into making the bed, putting garbage in the garbage, putting dirty clothes in the hamper, putting clean clothes away. (that covers the morning). after lunch, we reboot anything that needs rebooting, and then pick one area (eg. windowsill, dresser top, etc) to focus on. it will never be to my mom's "ntj" standards.

 

fwiw,

ann

[anneofalamo]

jumping in, cause my kidlets are or were stuffers. It is easier to stuff "whatever" needs to be put away.

I had them watch one episode of hoarders

They cleaned their rooms on their own! ON Their OWN!!!

I praised them like one of Oprah's audience when they win a car!! I thank them daily when it is looking good!!

It has been over a month, we discuss hoarders and we know a hoarder (and everyone pretends she isn't), and my kids say they know the difference in her house and mine, and they don't want that feeling in their room.

 

but that all being said, I really think they just had too much "stuff"!

They got rid of alot of things, that I was cringing, but it is very minimalistic now, and they read in there for hours and play in the rooms way more now!

[Denisemomof4]

http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/eh/a/executive_funct.htm

 

My younger son has some similar difficulties. He always seems very thankful (and incredulous) when I come in and deep clean his room. Paring down number of things in a room is helpful, I think. A set place for everything is helpful, too, but he still has to be constantly reminded of where that is.

 

He has a hamper in his room, but I still have to remind him to put dirty clothes there. In spite of the fact that there's plenty of room for him to line up his shoes in his closet floor, he recently very proudly had them lined up across the entrance to his room, instead. So kids who have these problems need constant visual and verbal reminders. Not fussing, just prompting.

 

I just do daily reminders. "Put these dirty clothes (pointing to them) into your hamper." "Put these shoes (pointing to them) into your closet." And I watch while it happens, giving encouragement.

 

And I try to get him into daily/weekly routines, too. "Make your bed now, please, before we start school." Every morning. For years.

 

I've literally been saying, "Brush your teeth and put on your head gear," and in the morning, "Put on your clothes and brush your teeth," for years, too.

 

Every Monday, I say, "Please sort your colored and white clothes into two piles and bring them to the laundry room for me," then watch as he does it. When the clothes are dry, I say, "Please put your clothes on hangars and put them away," and watch as he does it. Well, I don't have to watch any more, but I did for a long, long time, offering instruction or encouragement as he did the work....

 

He now folds all towels used in the house and puts all those away for me, but I still have to correct at times when I find towels in the wrong places....

 

I know an adult who has this difficulty and she is the one who brought it to my attention, but I already knew that something was up with him since he was completely unlike his older brother.

 

For the cat's litter box, which he is now responsible for, we just keep a check on it and remind him when it's time to empty it, then check to make sure he's done it. I also have to sometimes follow behind him and check to make sure he didn't skip any of the trash cans around the house when he's emptying those.

 

Surprisingly, we have not had to worry about him forgetting to feed the cat and change her water - ever. He's always been great with that and he was little when he started doing it. I'm guessing that your daughter is the same with the pets she really loves. Explaining to her the dangers of leaving their filth (both for them and for her or others entering the room) will probably help her to remember to remove it, but you will probably have to direct that, too, for quite some time in order to establish it as a routine part of changing their cage.

 

Folks who have this problem just seem to have difficulty in following through with all the steps necessary to complete any sort of even a seemingly simple task.

 

A solid routine with constant follow up seems to be the only way we've found to help him establish appropriate patterns of behavior.

 

And I still walk around the house saying, "Please pick up this wrapper and throw it in the garbage. That's what trash cans are for." Every time he chews a piece of gum or opens a piece of candy, he puts the wrapper down on a table top somewhere instead of in a trash can. It just takes constant reminders. I'm not (generally) fussing or nagging about it. I'm just reminding nicely and explaining the reasoning behind the thing I'm asking for.

 

So I can't say definitely that this is what your daughter is experiencing - but she sounds very much like my son....

 

where were you when I was writing about MY 10yodd??? ;)

 

OP I don't know what to say because you've deleted all your posts. :confused::confused::confused: But this is what I did with my 10yodd, The Messie. I gave her a HUGE black construction bag. I told her to get rid of half the stuff in her room. I then went and checked the room, gave her another bag, and told her to get rid of half which was left. I did this for two reasons: 1) I wanted her to be responsible for getting rid of the stuff. My sister is a hoarder and I want dd to get used to getting rid of stuff by herself. 2) I wasn't about to create more work for myself. I've helped organize her room as have her brothers. It's all her responsibility now. So after the second bag, I went back into her room and got rid of all which was unnecessary. She's got a very large room (over the garage) but there is no closet. I bought her drawers to organize her "stuff" in and she's got furniture for her clothing. Still, she threw everything in drawers, under the bed, behind the furniture, etc. We won't be building her a closet until she becomes more responsible and organized. We now do frequent spot checks, and when we do these, she's told to open all the drawers in her room. I hate to be militant about it but really had gotten bad. I hope she will keep things clean on her own at some point.

 

AND, most importantly, we do NOT buy her as much as we once did. First of all, most of it she doesn't use. Secondly, she CAN'T organize. Not won't, CAN'T.

 

I admit, now that I've read what I've quoted above, I know she isn't capable. But I'm still glad most of the crap is gone, as most of it was just that: CRAP. I'm certain my dd has ADD. But I didn't realize that it kept her from organizing. My ds15 has ADHD and his room is spotless and organized. I somehow felt she wasn't capable of that but I couldn't figure out why. No bones about it, though, the more junk there is, the harder it is to keep organized and clean. I know this by watching my husband clean and reorganize the garage for years on end. This year I simply filled the trailer and went to the dump THREE times. (we have an oversized garage, AND we've had to bring home things from three other households!!!) So dd's birthday is Tuesday. I'm no longer buying her a ton of stuff (Christmas will be way scaled back this year, too, and not for only her, for all kids, and it is not for financial reasons!) and so I only got her enough clothing to get her through the season. No more several outfits, then random pants/shirts/jackets/shoes/boots. Our kids have had too much and it's been just that: too much. The less we have, the easier it is to keep things organized. For dd I'm paring back to 4 jeans, 2 leggings, 5 sweaters, 3 long sleeve shirts, pajamas, 2 pair boots - for the ENTIRE season. She's got three outfits she can wear to the gym. That's IT. We're using the library more instead of buying a ton of books. She has 5 pair of earrings, that's plenty. She'll get an Ipod for Christmas and a couple other small things - that's it. The only child who is clean and organized is dd15 and we're just not going to keep on heaping onto the pile of junk.

 

I'd have your daughter do all the work herself. She needs to decide which to keep and which to throw out. Get rid of a ton of stuff because unless you do, she's not going to be able to keep her room clean.

 

Oh, BTW, I did the same thing with her clothing. Dd had WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much. I had her pack up half her clothing, I went through the remainder, then I told her she could keep X amount of each thing, and she got rid of the rest.

 

Things are SO MUCH better now, and they're entirely manageable. Life is good. :001_smile:

[Ester Maria]

Michelle may have put it quite bluntly, but essentially, she's right: your daughter has a certain strong habit because you allowed that habit to develop so strongly. In my view, it's not a definite trait that cannot be mended in any way, regardless of the fact there might be a sort of "predisposition" for it.

But we aren't our "predispositions"; the whole process of growing up is about becoming masters of ourselves rather than slaves to ourselves and it quite often involves learning to fit some of our "predispositions" into socially (and in this case, hygienically) acceptable boxes; even if your daughter never turns into a neat freak (which is fine and alright, not everyone has to be one!), that trait CAN be dealt with and brought down to respect some reasonable limits.

 

That being said, there are two approaches you may take, both of which have been outlined here already - the "cold turkey" one and the gradual one (FlyLady one). From what I understand, you have been trying extensively with the latter one over the years; maybe it's about time to change a method that didn't work and go stricter. I, too, would take all of her belongings out of the room and have her live only with what she can manage, allowing more and more items back as she can manage more and more items. I second the idea of having her have an artsy area to herself that can be a mess, but the rest of the room has to be clean and in order.

 

There are three sides to her problem: one, the most important one, is hygiene - some of her habits are purely unhygienic (clothes all over, not cleaning the sink after herself, etc.) and those are to be worked on FIRST, as they're directly related to health. Talk about the importance of cleanliness on that primary, hygienic level, for a healthy surrounding. This would also include the proper care of animals, as that's a tricky area too.

Two, there is the issue of order - when you've worked on hygiene, move to order. Order is a matter of organization and of what's socially (in this case, family) acceptable: the space which is already clean needs to be organized. Each thing, ideally, has its place; picking up after yourself is also a habit, and a one you need to form after you've worked on hygiene first.

Three, some of the decluttering may be related to having too many THINGS. Most of us nowadays have far too many things, items, especially children - more than we need and more than we can handle. Declutter it by getting rid of as much as you can. When you've worked on hygiene AND habit, go with your daughter over her belongings and try to halve the unnecessary ones - donate them to charity, throw away the old ones, anything, just get the number down. It simplifies one's life incredibly. Most of us have way too many things and that's also partially a cause of problems with organization.

 

In short, you wish to work on hygienic aspect first, forming a habit of picking after herself that should become automatic second (while slowly getting her belongings back to her) and then getting rid of as much unnecessary stuff as you can with her when the former two are dealt with more or less. You wish to develop a general mechanism (put away what you used, wipe away the sink after you've used it, etc.) throughout the day, then mechanisms of occasional regular cleanings (cleaning IS NOT organizing! cleaning is when you deal with surfaces, floors, etc. in a systematic fashion, once a week generally and once a month thoroughly; cleaning is the "hygiene" aspect and picking up after yourself is more of a "order" aspect, don't mix the two to know your priorities).

 

Also, I'd address the character side of the story. By living the way she does, she creates additional work for others, because they need to do things instead of her or lose lots of time constantly reminding her. She will need a lot of supervision and reminding at first, but your goal is to make it automatic, not to make her rely on you eternally. I'd make absolutely cristally clear to her that it's not morally acceptable to live as if you lived on your own while living with others, behave as if you were alone and add work to others. She's a big girl already and she needs to pull her weight, realize her mess affects the whole house and realize that it's not alright that somebody cleans after her or has to bother to remind her of things all the time.

 

Part of this issue is habit, the other part is character. Address them both, systematically, with minimal drama and guilt tripping, but having her understand the impact she has on things. DO NOT indulge her or excuse her behavior just because she's that artsy type with certain "predispositions"! I have one would-be messy girl, but with immaculate room - it's certainly possible, with strict boundaries of what's acceptable and what's not, a systematic approach and realization that such a system benefits everyone. It's a lot easier to learn it at 5 than at 10, I agree, but on the other hand, it's a lot easier to learn it at 10 than at 20/30/etc. You don't want this habit to fossilize. Nip it in the bud - or, if not in the bud in your case, very early anyway.

[MrsMe]

We've done this too. I love the big black construction bags. DD did the last one, then did two more regular bags about a week ago. Most of it isn't toys, but garbage, paper/art junk.

 

Nothing with her is for it's intended use. I have to compliment her creativity, but none of "her" games are complete, because she plays with the parts. If I give her drawers for pencils, those come out to be used as some toy or suitcase for a doll. The thing is she doesn't have that much anymore. She creates most of it.

 

She's been this way since she was "able" to put things away. Always a battle. I believe it's not that she won't, it's that she can't. A storage bin becomes a toy. When she had a toy box, the top was a table and she moved it out to play behind, yet nothing went into it. She has a bunk bed DH made for her American Girl doll but it's used as a two story house. Good imagination, but a creation that is not taken down easily. She likes my old clothes for the fabric. It's not bought stuff...it's all created.

 

We have scaled back her clothing and shoes. Toys and such we have ONE of each thing. So if she has few bags...from Awana, she gets to keep one. She earns her own money, but I won't let her buy junk with it. I make her save it.

 

I'm seriously thinking she may have ADD. She has no focus, she creates a lot of stuff, but does it all half way to the point I make her just do her schoolwork over. She likes activities as long as they don't take long. She flits from one thing to the next. She can't find anything, has problems with instructions, written or otherwise and loud toilet, talking, etc. It's to the point that I don't want to break her spirit. But I never thought of ADD and now all these other things other posters mentioned, make me think. And I'm not one for tagging kids with an issue.

 

As far as possible ADD I think I'll try some home remedies for that like another poster mentioned and see how it works out. Certainly can't hurt, right? And for what it's worth...her closet is usually empty. A closet for Ms. Messie, could be overrated.:tongue_smilie:

[freetobeme]

good for you for asking this when she is still only 10 - if you handle it well, she will thank you. as i have perused this thread, i realize that i have NOT handled my 17 yo well who is very similar to how you and others describe their dc. but she is an incredible person despite all that. and she cleans her room on her own from time to time. . .hang in there! :grouphug:

[littleWMN]

We've done this too. I love the big black construction bags. DD did the last one, then did two more regular bags about a week ago. Most of it isn't toys, but garbage, paper/art junk.

 

Nothing with her is for it's intended use. I have to compliment her creativity, but none of "her" games are complete, because she plays with the parts. If I give her drawers for pencils, those come out to be used as some toy or suitcase for a doll. The thing is she doesn't have that much anymore. She creates most of it.

 

She's been this way since she was "able" to put things away. Always a battle. I believe it's not that she won't, it's that she can't. A storage bin becomes a toy. When she had a toy box, the top was a table and she moved it out to play behind, yet nothing went into it. She has a bunk bed DH made for her American Girl doll but it's used as a two story house. Good imagination, but a creation that is not taken down easily. She likes my old clothes for the fabric. It's not bought stuff...it's all created.

 

We have scaled back her clothing and shoes. Toys and such we have ONE of each thing. So if she has few bags...from Awana, she gets to keep one. She earns her own money, but I won't let her buy junk with it. I make her save it.

 

I'm seriously thinking she may have ADD. She has no focus, she creates a lot of stuff, but does it all half way to the point I make her just do her schoolwork over. She likes activities as long as they don't take long. She flits from one thing to the next. She can't find anything, has problems with instructions, written or otherwise and loud toilet, talking, etc. It's to the point that I don't want to break her spirit. But I never thought of ADD and now all these other things other posters mentioned, make me think. And I'm not one for tagging kids with an issue.

 

As far as possible ADD I think I'll try some home remedies for that like another poster mentioned and see how it works out. Certainly can't hurt, right? And for what it's worth...her closet is usually empty. A closet for Ms. Messie, could be overrated.:tongue_smilie:

 

This is my 9 year old daughter to a T! We have pared down until I don't feel right about paring down any more. It's all stuff she makes. Out of paperclips, boxes, papers, straws - anything! She gets so upset if I make her throw something away. She does have ADD. Message me if you want to commisserate!

[Nestof3]

OP -- I just wanted to say that reading this thread reminds me of my son Ben who is nine. He is always making things -- tons of balloon animals, board games out of poster board and stuff, arts and crafts which rarely get finished, etc. He wants to save bottle caps, bottles, recyling stuff, etc. He rarely finishes a Lego project unless it's small (I'm talking about his own creations, not the kits as they come in the box).

 

He hates getting rid of anything.

 

We have a very small house. I wouldn't mind so much if we had a huge playroom which I could organize, because he will put things away in their homes. But, we don't have designated homes for so many of his projects. I throw things away when he's asleep sometimes. It just gets so overwhelming. I take photos of his creations and throw away the creations.

[mommaduck]

Yep, this all sounds like my 10yr old. I have to be on top of it at all times or that is what it would turn into.