There's more than one right way to homeschool

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

I'm with you. This IS a classical board, and there's a lot of "don't worry, you don't need to do anything but the basics in the elementary years" and "just focus on math and reading"....um, I disagree. I don't think that's enough, sorry. This is my opinion, of course, but if you can't handle homeschooling your kids, you need to re-evaluate your life and figure out what exactly is preventing you from giving your children the education they deserve.....which includes science, art, and history (in SOME way)....yes, even in the elementary years. And, imo, you CAN do that with unschooling. I don't think the WTM is the only way.

 

Oh, and btw....just because you're rigorous doesn't mean you're not having fun. :001_smile:

 

Okay, I just can't let this go. Breathing deeply here. First, we are doing those to some degree. I have our cupboards stocked with art supplies and my children use them liberally. We do science somewhat formally (MFW K) and informally (nature study) and history is informal (timeline). This, I know, is not very rigorous compared to many of you. With that being said, I am somewhat shocked at your conclusion here.

 

I have been dreaming of homeschooling my children for years. It is such a joy and bright spot in my life. I feel like the luckiest woman alive to be at home teaching my children. It has live up to my expectations in every way possible. Yet we had a problem, Houston. I got sick a year ago. I am very, very sick. Some days I feel like I'm dying and I may very well be. The Dr(s) don't know why I have almost no white blood cells. They don't know why I have vestibulitis, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, severe food allergies and chemical sensitivities. They don't know why I can't sleep at night and why I am so warm at night (think hot flashes). Sucks to be sure. I am 33. So young and yet I feel life my life as I once knew it is over.

 

So, my children are not getting the most amazing education right now. But you know what they are getting me and I'm getting them! We have a lot of fun! Dh is doing the MFW with them and unless I can get better soon, he will be doing history (daily and with my help) in the future with the kids. Formal science will not be until jr. high and will last throughout high school for them as per the SCM schedule. I know this might tick a few off and get up your nose, but that's the way it will probably be and has to be. So get over it.

 

Also, I know some of you have frowned upon my use of only Miquon for grades 1-3. Well, this has always been my plan since before the beginning. A hs mom I know who has graduated all her children with honors (her youngest (18) just entered UOI as a a junior!) only used it in the younger years, as well. ;) I know that sounds defensive, and it is. :)

 

Okay, I know this thread isn't about me...

Edited October 31, 2010 by mommyjen

[justamouse]

Some days I feel like I'm dying and I may very well be. The Dr(s) don't know why I have almost no white blood cells. They don't know why I have vestibulitis, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, severe food allergies and chemical sensitivities. They don't know why I can't sleep at night and why I am so warm at night (think hot flashes). Sucks to be sure. I am 33. So young and yet I feel life my life as I once knew it is over.

 

So, my children are not getting the most amazing education right now. But you know what they are getting me and I'm getting them! We have a lot of fun!

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

no, it probably wasn't about you--but in a way it was and threads like these get judgmental sounding. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

Sending much faithing and light your way. You don't have to defend yourself to anyone.

[angela in ohio]

The point of a message board is that you are going to get a range of ideas. But no one knows 100% your circumstance, your values, your tastes etc. Say "thank you" and then choose what works best for you!

 

This should be quoted at the top of each board as a stick. :001_smile:

 

Once you post a question, you get what you get. There may be rabbit trails, you may get opinions that don't really line up with your situation, etc. It's just like asking a question in a group of people IRL. You don't own the conversation, because other people are participatin.

 

Sometimes I read a post, and because of the experience I have with many homeschool moms IRL (and my own) I can see things I don't even think the poster understands about their question. It might not even be what they are specifically asking, but it could be helpful. I bet many of the more experienced homeschooers have the same experience. *I* would want someone to take the chance and tell me what (1.) I didn't ask, and (2.) I may not want to hear. It is a sign of true care and respect to tell people things that are difficult or that they don't agree with, but that you feel are in their best interest. I think if we offer it in the spirit of, "Maybe you haven't considered this" or "have you thougth about..." it should be accepted as what it is - concern for the path of another homeschooler - instead of thought of as someone thinking they know the only way to homeschool and not listening. And if nothing else, they can skip over it and ignore it. :D

 

I think this is what happens with a lot of the moms of really littles who ask questions. Like a pp said, we have been there, and we have seen posters come here like that, not heed the warnings, and crash and burn right in front of our eyes.

[justamouse]

 

Sometimes I read a post, and because of the experience I have with many homeschool moms IRL (and my own) I can see things I don't even think the poster understands about their question. It might not even be what they are specifically asking, but it could be helpful. I bet many of the more experienced homeschooers have the same experience. *I* would want someone to take the chance and tell me what (1.) I didn't ask, and (2.) I may not want to hear. It is a sign of true care and respect to tell people things that are difficult or that they don't agree with, but that you feel are in their best interest. I think if we offer it in the spirit of, "Maybe you haven't considered this" or "have you thought about..." it should be accepted as what it is - concern for the path of another homeschooler - instead of thought of as someone thinking they know the only way to homeschool and not listening. And if nothing else, they can skip over it and ignore it. :D

 

mmm, that's the experience showing, when you can read between the lines and intuitively know because you've either seen it or done it. :D

[Audrey]

:iagree: Also, if you have only ever homeschooled children up to the third grade, please do not offer advice on how to homeschool any child beyond the third grade. You have no idea until you've done it. Sometimes until you've done it more than once.

 

 

Definitely. There are a lot of people who will insist that there is this one way to do jr-high and high school. Their kids are usually in grade 3 or less. What is with that? When I ask about a certain grade level, I want someone with either previous or current experience at that level. I don't give responses on high school stuff because we aren't there yet. Honestly, I don't even bother to answer much stuff on the curriculum forum anymore unless I see a post on OM or someone points out to me that there are posts over there on it. It's the one curriculum that I feel comfortable discussing over a wide range of levels. It's not classical, though I could make a good argument for why it could work on on classical level in the middle grades years (at least -- I haven't used the high school obviously).

[Audrey]

Now, having recently come back to the boards, I have found that many of the classically minded moms whose posts I craved and needed, are gone and there aren't nearly as many classically educating for high school, although, there are still some.

 

Faith

 

 

Most homeschoolers don't seem to make it to the high school level. They end up putting the kids in ps. At least, that seems to be the trend I've noticed over the 8+ years I've been on these boards. I can understand how they'd naturally gravitate away from here, too.

 

I also wonder if, perhaps, once you get to high school level, you have less need of a forum like this. I wouldn't know personally, but it seems like those with teens are pretty busy and involved what with activities, jobs, etc. So, that's even less time to be on a forum.

[lionfamily1999]

Yes, but they figured they still had an opinion, and you were entitled to hear it, lol.

 

I'll be the first to admit that I was a much better parent before I had kids--I knew it all, I'm sure. And I was "homeschooling" my of-course-she's-gifted two year old, wondering if it was too early to start teaching her to read. I hope I managed to keep my obnoxiousness to myself, but I probably didn't. I didn't know about message boards back then, so at least I couldn't inflict myself on the early WTM boards.

:lol: Okay, I didn't hs my 2yo (for any of the kids), but I was a better parent before I was a parent (but I was a teen, and I knew everything ;) ).

 

It's always easy to do this, before you start doing it.

Okay, I just can't let this go.

 

...

 

Also, I know some of you have frowned upon my use of only Miquon for grades 1-3. Well, this has always been my plan since before the beginning. A hs mom I know who has graduated all her children with honors (her youngest (18) just entered UOI as a a junior!) only used it in the younger years, as well. ;) I know that sounds defensive, and it is. :)

 

Okay, I know this thread isn't about me...

Miquon only for math? Okay, if it's a can of worms forget I've asked, but WHY would anyone care that you used Miquon for math?!? It's supposed to be a great program. If I could figure it out, I'd use it too :p

 

As to the rest... Look, you are doing the best you can. When people make generalizations, they are leaving out the exceptions (you). It's hard not to hurt, I understand that, but I really do not think that she meant you. You know what is preventing you from doing everything you want to do and you ARE doing everything she listed.

 

Heck, you do more than a lot of box hsers I know. And looking at her post, even with everything you've got going on, you're meeting *her* parameters.

 

:grouphug:

 

Sweetie, you're rigorous.

[kathkath]

This should be quoted at the top of each board as a stick. :001_smile:

 

Once you post a question, you get what you get. There may be rabbit trails, you may get opinions that don't really line up with your situation, etc. It's just like asking a question in a group of people IRL. You don't own the conversation, because other people are participatin.

 

Sometimes I read a post, and because of the experience I have with many homeschool moms IRL (and my own) I can see things I don't even think the poster understands about their question. It might not even be what they are specifically asking, but it could be helpful. I bet many of the more experienced homeschooers have the same experience. *I* would want someone to take the chance and tell me what (1.) I didn't ask, and (2.) I may not want to hear. It is a sign of true care and respect to tell people things that are difficult or that they don't agree with, but that you feel are in their best interest. I think if we offer it in the spirit of, "Maybe you haven't considered this" or "have you thougth about..." it should be accepted as what it is - concern for the path of another homeschooler - instead of thought of as someone thinking they know the only way to homeschool and not listening. And if nothing else, they can skip over it and ignore it. :D

 

I think this is what happens with a lot of the moms of really littles who ask questions. Like a pp said, we have been there, and we have seen posters come here like that, not heed the warnings, and crash and burn right in front of our eyes.

 

 

Do tell some of those warnings, for newer hsers like me :)

[lionfamily1999]

Do tell some of those warnings, for newer hsers like me :)

Take your time.

Relax.

Genius or no, some skills are difficult to learn.

Relax.

 

 

 

Oh, and relax.

 

:lol:

 

Sorry, I've read a number of those ;)

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

no, it probably wasn't about you--but in a way it was and threads like these get judgmental sounding. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

Sending much faithing and light your way. You don't have to defend yourself to anyone.

 

Thank you Justamouse! HSing is seriously what get me out of bed in the morning. It is my joy as I walk through "the valley of the shadow of death".

 

 

Miquon only for math? Okay, if it's a can of worms forget I've asked, but WHY would anyone care that you used Miquon for math?!? It's supposed to be a great program. If I could figure it out, I'd use it too :p

 

As to the rest... Look, you are doing the best you can. When people make generalizations, they are leaving out the exceptions (you). It's hard not to hurt, I understand that, but I really do not think that she meant you. You know what is preventing you from doing everything you want to do and you ARE doing everything she listed.

 

Heck, you do more than a lot of box hsers I know. And looking at her post, even with everything you've got going on, you're meeting *her* parameters.

 

:grouphug:

 

Sweetie, you're rigorous.

 

I don't ask specifics about that "can of worms". La, la, la, la, la (covering ears) :tongue_smilie:

 

I could kiss you for your last comment! Thank you! That feels so good to hear. LOL :001_wub: What's so funny to me is that I know several unschoolers IRL (including my best girl friend) and I learned real quick to just keep my mouth shut. I was just innocently sharing my joy over seeing my children learning to read and got blind sighted. Wow, such vehemence. I def. feel more at home here and with classical educators, though I've yet to read the WTM (just found out our library carries it...yipee!) I'm very thankful for this forum and have grown in so many ways as I've been here.

Edited October 31, 2010 by mommyjen

[angela in ohio]

Do tell some of those warnings, for newer hsers like me :)

 

It's hard to generalize.

 

Some people need to relax, some need help trying harder. Some push their young dc, some don't challenge their dc enough as they get older. Some are stressed over every small detail, some worry too little about important things. Some cause their families whiplash running from one method/expert to another, some never seek outside advice even to a fault.

 

And then there are all the variables related to the dc...

 

Way too hard to generalize... :D

 

Ultimately, though, the warning I was speaking of in this specific instance (people with young dc): Don't spend more time planning out your curriculum for years at a time than actually talking to/ reading with/ spending time with your dc. Don't worry more about what other homeschoolers think of what you are doing than your dc and dh. Don't stress out your young child by worrying over them not being a prodigy and trying to work them like one anyway. Don't be in such a rush to be a "real homeschooler" that you start overly formal educational methods with very young children. Don't let your desire to "be a teacher" and "have a school" make your home a little public school building, complete with lack of flexibility. Don't convince yourself that you are such a homeschool expert based on your month of experience that you don't listen to others' helpful words.

 

Do spend more time teaching yourself than your dc when they are little. Do learn the material and methods of teaching more than every single curriculum and all their details. Do focus more on creating a lifestyle of intellectual pursuits (and modeling that yourself) than picking out the perfect curriculum. Do find balance between following every new fad versus never changing things that aren't working.

[Crimson Wife]

:iagree: Also, if you have only ever homeschooled children up to the third grade, please do not offer advice on how to homeschool any child beyond the third grade. You have no idea until you've done it. Sometimes until you've done it more than once.

 

Except that some of us with younger kids have run across excellent-looking materials for older students that may well be worth considering. Or maybe we can make a recommendation based on our own experience as teens.

 

It's your prerogative whether or not you want to listen to anything I might have to say, but snobbery just might mean you miss out on useful information :tongue_smilie:

[SweetMissMagnolia]

well said.....that's always my advice to new homeschoolers---there's more than one way to do things--what works for my child might NOT work for yours......great post!!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm going to refer back to the title of this thread "There's more than one right way to homeschool". The curricula we use (whether it is box, from the library, bought online or found on the side of the road) is all application. You can have more than one application that works toward fulfilling a principle. When you are talking application, I agree that "there's more than one right way to homeschool".

 

For me, it's the principles that are important. Some principles are fairly widespread - most people share the principle of "having a literate child who can read books and gain information on his own". Some principles are more unique. Not everyone agrees with the principle that "a child will identify on his own and work toward those skills that he will need to succeed in life."

 

When it comes to principles I do not agree that there is "more than one right way to homeschool". I agree that there can be more than one set of principles to homeschool (that's fairly obvious just looking at the variety of homeschoolers on this board). But principles are propositions (remember that in logic?) A proposition can be valid or invalid. It is by nature going to argued. And it would be illogical to accept all propositions out there because some are contradictory. The principle that I hold: "The parent needs to have or acquire the means of directing their child to those skills which he needs to succeed in life" is in direct contradiction to the proposition that "a child will identify on his own and work toward those skills he will need to succeed in life." I will not agree with every principle that every homeschooling has and thus I cannot say that I believe that every principle is "right".

 

Now having said that, I do hold to the principle that "all homeschooling parents are accountable for the decisions they make for the education of their children." And the corollary "As long as they conform to the homeschool laws of their state, they have the right to choose the set of principles that will govern their homeschool decisions". So I will argue the validity of different principles but will also respect the right of people to hold differing principles from those I hold.

[Mrs Mungo]

Except that some of us with younger kids have run across excellent-looking materials for older students that may well be worth considering. Or maybe we can make a recommendation based on our own experience as teens.

 

It's your prerogative whether or not you want to listen to anything I might have to say, but snobbery just might mean you miss out on useful information :tongue_smilie:

 

Except that's not what I'm talking about (of course, I'm only speaking for me). The thread I mentioned was about dealing with attitudes. I got a lot of "oh, I simply would NEVER allow that, my precious child shall NEVER have an attitude" from moms of 3 year olds. That's what I'm talking about. :)

[KidsHappen]

No, I am quite sure that there is only one right way to do it. My way of course. :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When people get this attitude, I start to hear the voice of the Red Queen: "All ways are my ways." And we know what a logical person she was. ;)

[Rosie_0801]

Except that's not what I'm talking about (of course, I'm only speaking for me). The thread I mentioned was about dealing with attitudes. I got a lot of "oh, I simply would NEVER allow that, my precious child shall NEVER have an attitude" from moms of 3 year olds. That's what I'm talking about. :)

 

Who are these people? I'd like to know how they prevent their 3 year olds from having an attitude. My 3 year old could do with a bit of attitude removal surgery.

 

Teenagers and toddlers seem to have a lot in common. They want things they can't have and cry about things that aren't worth crying about. But hubby probably thinks the same about me, and I'm 30.

 

;)

Rosie

[Pamela H in Texas]

I will never forget struggling with my eldest in her pre-teen years. I posted asking for advice from moms who were still homeschooling teenaged girls or had homeschooled teen girls through the high school years ONLY. It did not work. I still got advice from parents of 3 year olds. Boo.

 

Well, I think that parents of 3yr olds *can* have opinions and good ones at that. We all have different experiences in life, thankfully, so we can weigh in on what our parents did in that situation, what we saw a friend do in that situation, what we hope to accomplish ourselves years from now, etc. Also, there is no way to know who was in a position of raising a sibling or any number of other issues.

 

Most people are humble enough to say, "I hope" or "I think I'd" or "I don't have kids that age yet, but..." And if they don't type it, they probably *think* it.

 

(so glad I have big kids while typing this post...LOL)

[MaMa2005]

The people that are more rigorous are often accused of pushing their kids. AND classical doesn't look the same to everyone.

 

 

:iagree: Thank you for voicing that piece of wisdom! Some days I feel like if I hear 'you are too rigorous' with your school day and curriculum, I am going to SCREAM. I have bitten my tongue so much I am surprised it is still in my mouth.

[mytwomonkeys]

It's not any one thread or post that has prompted me to start this thread' date=' but just something I've noticed for some time.

 

I know that this board is "a guide to classical education", but as we know, many homeschoolers, as well as afterschoolers and others, have found a home here who are not doing strictly classical education. I am included among those who are doing things differently, but that's not why I'm writing this. I think it's great to talk about what you're doing and to share your experiences, but at the same time, I think it's important to respect other people's choices for their own children. There is no one right way to educate children which is the best for all children or all families. Isn't that one of the problems many have found which prompted them to homeschool to begin with?

 

I think that when we start to narrow down our definition of what homeschooling is, to the exclusion of certain types or ways of homeschooling, that we're doing the whole homeschooling movement a disservice. If we continually narrow down what's true homeschooling, eventually we will narrow it down enough that even we ourselves wouldn't fit neatly inside that definition. I think homeschool is more inclusive than exclusive, or at least it should be. It's about choosing the best education for our own children.

 

Just my thoughts. :)[/quote']

 

i haven't read all of the replies. i liked your post though.

 

fwiw, i don't consider myself a classical homeschooler in any shape or form. i lurked at these boards for almost a year before posting. after seeing so many signatures using the exact same curriculum choices as myself, i decided i certainly had enough in common to join the forum. i don't care how anyone homeschools though & i've learned a lot through the posters here. i just take what i like and leave the rest. it's never personal to me :)

[laughing lioness]

There are lots of ways to homeschool, but I don't support them all. I also don't think that "anyone can homeschool." I've seen lots of people lower their expectations because it is hard to get their kids to do the work.

We need to feel like it is okay to tell people that no, it isn't okay that you don't require xyz. I don't think anyone ever told me that even though I needed to hear it more than once.

:)

 

:iagree:. Of course there is more than one right way to homeschool, just like there is more than one way to eat, read a book or plant a garden. I have many friends who garden but they don't weed, prune or fertilize. They are amazed at their friends gardens that produce a ton of food and flowers who do those simple, but time consuming and sometimes painful, things. And it's the same for child rearing and homeschooling.

 

I love the writings of John Holt but I see very few families that unschool who really following his philosophy. Unschooling isn't NOT schooling and it's not laziness but that is how I've seen it manifested by everyone I've known who unschools. I also love the writings of SWB and Jessie Bauer. But, honestly, most of us on these boards aren't really classically educating, including me.

Many folks homeschool becasue they are reacting to a situation instead of proactively reaching for something that will stretch them beyond themselves. I know the term "vision" is way over-used but frankly so many of us have a stunted one.

I've homeschooled for 20 years and I have a pretty good idea of what works academically and what doesn't (despite the very differerent learning styles and abilities of my 5 kids). I don't believe that every "way" is effective- in parenting or educating. For instance, giving your kids "2 positive choices" for every driective is a great way to raise entitled children. Here's our 2 positive choices, "Obey or be disciplined." (and I'm not talking about beating them with a rubber plumbing instument - I'm talking firm and loving parental discipline) I'm going to keep on saying what I believe and know to work. Becasue of this I've started co-ops and class days, brought TeenPact to our state and talked to myriads of homeschoolers and parents about what works and what doesn't. Often people want to know our opinions on these things becasue they see the fruit of our lives (educated, wise, thoughtful, servanthearted people).

[brehon]

Who are these people? I'd like to know how they prevent their 3 year olds from having an attitude. My 3 year old could do with a bit of attitude removal surgery.

 

No kidding. My 3 (almost 4) yo ds has more attitude than the rest of my kids. :glare:

 

Teenagers and toddlers seem to have a lot in common. They want things they can't have and cry about things that aren't worth crying about. But hubby probably thinks the same about me, and I'm 30.

 

;)

Rosie

 

As to the bolded, I teach a pediatrics class to new paramedics in my system and use the following pithy statement to describe toddlers and teens: High mobility; low common sense.

 

I try to offer advice or thoughts as they seem appropriate when someone asks about curricula or method. Everything I offer is based solely on my experiences as I assume other's opinions are similarly based. I think the range of answers one receives to any given question has broadened as more people have joined the Boards (notice the capital letter ;)) and it can be difficult sometimes to find answers to questions one might have.

 

Jean, I have very similar thoughts to what you wrote about principles. You expressed them much clearer than I could have.

[angela in ohio]

Except that some of us with younger kids have run across excellent-looking materials for older students that may well be worth considering. Or maybe we can make a recommendation based on our own experience as teens.

 

It's your prerogative whether or not you want to listen to anything I might have to say, but snobbery just might mean you miss out on useful information :tongue_smilie:

 

There's a huge difference between running across something and having used it for years with your own child. I think as long as your dc's ages are listed in your signature, or you preface it with something like, "mine are too young to use this yet, but..." you are fine.

 

Of course, the same goes for those with older dc who speak authoritatively about curriculum they have only flipped through at convention or read about in a review, or have only used for a few weeks. :001_smile: It's great to share you opinions, as long as you are honest about their limitations. I think we would all want others to do the same for us.

[angela in ohio]

Teenagers and toddlers seem to have a lot in common. They want things they can't have and cry about things that aren't worth crying about.

 

:lol:

 

And for whatever reason, my 8 yo does, too... he's either behind or advanced. :D

[justamouse]

Except that's not what I'm talking about (of course, I'm only speaking for me). The thread I mentioned was about dealing with attitudes. I got a lot of "oh, I simply would NEVER allow that, my precious child shall NEVER have an attitude" from moms of 3 year olds. That's what I'm talking about. :)

 

:lol:

 

It's sad to laugh, I know, but like I said on a thread a while ago, it's not that a parent of one isn't a parent, it's that this baby, all precious and twee, will take all of your expectations and twist them around till you get motion sickness.

 

First rule pf parenting: The more you swear, "Not MY child!" the more YOUR child.

 

It's hard to generalize.

 

Some people need to relax, some need help trying harder. Some push their young dc, some don't challenge their dc enough as they get older. Some are stressed over every small detail, some worry too little about important things. Some cause their families whiplash running from one method/expert to another, some never seek outside advice even to a fault.

 

And then there are all the variables related to the dc...

 

Way too hard to generalize... :D

 

Ultimately, though, the warning I was speaking of in this specific instance (people with young dc): Don't spend more time planning out your curriculum for years at a time than actually talking to/ reading with/ spending time with your dc. Don't worry more about what other homeschoolers think of what you are doing than your dc and dh. Don't stress out your young child by worrying over them not being a prodigy and trying to work them like one anyway. Don't be in such a rush to be a "real homeschooler" that you start overly formal educational methods with very young children. Don't let your desire to "be a teacher" and "have a school" make your home a little public school building, complete with lack of flexibility. Don't convince yourself that you are such a homeschool expert based on your month of experience that you don't listen to others' helpful words.

 

Do spend more time teaching yourself than your dc when they are little. Do learn the material and methods of teaching more than every single curriculum and all their details. Do focus more on creating a lifestyle of intellectual pursuits (and modeling that yourself) than picking out the perfect curriculum. Do find balance between following every new fad versus never changing things that aren't working.

 

Exactly.

Edited October 31, 2010 by justamouse
comma culling

[lionfamily1999]

I don't ask specifics about that "can of worms". La, la, la, la, la (covering ears) :tongue_smilie:

 

I could kiss you for your last comment! Thank you! That feels so good to hear. LOL :001_wub: What's so funny to me is that I know several unschoolers IRL (including my best girl friend) and I learned real quick to just keep my mouth shut. I was just innocently sharing my joy over seeing my children learning to read and got blind sighted. Wow, such vehemence. I def. feel more at home here and with classical educators, though I've yet to read the WTM (just found out our library carries it...yipee!) I'm very thankful for this forum and have grown in so many ways as I've been here.

So, your hsing experience isn't much different from mine ;)

 

I've stopped talking about what my dc do beyond the very basics (3Rs). Even then, I don't mention Luke at all (unless someone starts gushing about what a genius he is, then I tell them so they'll know he's been taught those skills).

 

:grouphug: <---for no reason in particular :)

Who are these people? I'd like to know how they prevent their 3 year olds from having an attitude. My 3 year old could do with a bit of attitude removal surgery.

 

Teenagers and toddlers seem to have a lot in common. They want things they can't have and cry about things that aren't worth crying about. But hubby probably thinks the same about me, and I'm 30.

 

;)

Rosie

:lol: Don't they though! I thought the ten years between dd and youngest ds would make them different to deal with........ the difference is less than one might think :glare:

 

 

 

 

As for people commenting on teenagers (I'm guilty), we were all there at some point and I've commented based on my experience AS a teen. We've got some teens on the board and I think they're input on raising teens would be VERY valuable, because they're there.

[kalanamak]

Except that some of us with younger kids have run across excellent-looking materials for older students that may well be worth considering. Or maybe we can make a recommendation based on our own experience as teens.

 

 

Personally, I give no opinion or advice. I am merely channeling my dead parents. :D

 

(For years I did housework with the phone in my right ear, talking to them. After they died, I got a wonderful trick gifted to me. I ask a question, and I can *hear* them in that ear. Never together, only one at a time. If I ever lose this, that is when I will be bereft.)

[Tutor]

:iagree:

 

It appears that a lot of the experienced, rigorous classical homeschooling moms got driven away by the new (the last couple of years) vibe of the board. The (not) funny thing is a couple of the loudest, brashest voices advocating non-classical curricula and/or non-classical methods have now put their kids in school and they still hang out here. :001_huh:

 

:iagree: Thank you for putting words to what I was thinking.

[Tutor]

I agree with you, and every family needs to homeschool as they see fit.

 

This was started as a classical homeschooling education board, and the people who have chosen to homeschool classically should feel free to offer support from their POV. And honestly, I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. My older 2 boys school 5-6 hours a day, and once my boys turn 5 school is no longer an option and I expect them to sit for phonics, math, and penmanship lessons, and I feel like I'm often frowned upon here because we've chosen to school this way. I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore.

 

I shouldn't be expected to agree with other people's decisions to put their kids in school, and I shouldn't be expected to agree with unschooling (for example). I can disagree with these approaches, and still respect every family's right to school the way they want, kwim? Not to bring politics into it, but if I went to a Republican board and said I'd decided to vote for Obama because he's best choice for my family, I wouldn't expect to get kudos from the Republicans on that board, even though they can fully respect my right to vote. I would fully expect to get arguments and reasons why voting for McCain would be better.

 

Since I feel like I've entered rambling territory now, I'm going to go hop on the treadmill :D.

 

:iagree:

[FaithManor]

Thank you JudoMom!

 

Gently saying this because I am not looking to start a controversy or an angry bashing thread, I would love to see the forum include a classical education curriculum/teaching techniques board where those of us seeking advice on specific issues concerning the Great Books tradition, teaching logic and rhetoric, adapting curriculums to classical education needs, help with Latin, Greek, etc. would be able to discuss freely and glean tips from each other without needing to wade through a huge number of replies on the curriculum or high school board.

 

I don't mean to be exclusionary by any stretch, I love diversity and celebrate that. But, if we are stumped at some point on a Logic lesson or if I'm struggling with ds and a book on Socrates, it would be great to have a board to post to in which I don't have to worry about bewildered posts or even being flamed because I'm trying to explain the difference between Socratic and Aristotelian logic/philosophy to my 8th grader.

 

Additionally, I'm kind of extra lonely since Tina in Quray and many others like her, have graduated their children and no longer post because we explore math and science in much greater depth than many within the traditional classical model and these gals were WONDERFUL to bounce ideas off as some of them were engineers, chemists, physicists, and former math professors! Tina, are you out there?????????

 

That said, I'm not looking to offend anyone! The Hive is wonderful and I've gleaned marvelous information plus much sisterly support (even the occasional brotherly support so Barry and spy Car - rock on!) from the posters here!

 

Faith

[DianeW88]

Except that's not what I'm talking about (of course, I'm only speaking for me). The thread I mentioned was about dealing with attitudes. I got a lot of "oh, I simply would NEVER allow that, my precious child shall NEVER have an attitude" from moms of 3 year olds. That's what I'm talking about. :)

 

Exactly. You simply do not know until you have parented and or homeschooled a child of that age. What *I* did as a teen really has no bearing on how you handle teens as a parent. The emotions that you go through, the struggles, etc. are entirely different. I'm not saying that others can't have an opinion on it, but until you've actually tried to help your high school age student deal with their algebra......

 

It's like having a newborn who won't breastfeed or sleep through the night, or a toddler who refuses to be potty trained. When someone who doesn't have any children tells you what you should do to solve your problem....um, it's really not the same thing. No matter how many books they may have read on the subject or observations they made with their sister's kid, or whatever....it's not the same as someone who's been through it with their own child. Of course, others might make a valuable suggestion, but sometimes you just want that emotional connection with a mom who really KNOWS what you're going through. Sometimes...that's all you need is someone to say "I know how you feel and how hard it is. I've been there. And, look....we survived."

Edited October 31, 2010 by DianeW88

[Annabel Lee]

It is a perfect day outside here. :) I'm going to ramble outside. BUT I agree. The people that are more rigorous are often accused of pushing their kids. AND classical doesn't look the same to everyone.

 

There are lots of ways to homeschool, but I don't support them all. I also don't think that "anyone can homeschool." I've seen lots of people lower their expectations because it is hard to get their kids to do the work. I am very guilty of this myself. I have quit more grammar programs than I'd care to admit because I haven't had the will to make my dd complete them. I even found myself looking for support in my decision to quit and cover it with some sort of theory of education. It doesn't change the fact that I know how important it is.

 

We need to feel like it is okay to tell people that no, it isn't okay that you don't require xyz. I don't think anyone ever told me that even though I needed to hear it more than once.

 

I really need to do my rambling outside. What was the question again?

:)

 

The part that I bolded above - I need that. I'm trying to pursue a classical education for my kids in my homeschool. It's not easy and just like Karen described, I've gone through phases of seeking shortcuts, and feeling desperate for answers to my failed attempts. I don't begrudge anyone who homeschools with different principles or methods. There is a point at which I cannot bite my tongue but it would have to be close to educational neglect for me to do that, and I'd try to be gentle. On the other hand, if someone outright states they are aiming for xyz standard and asks for advice on a small detail or tool to use to get them to that goal, then they would probably like advice corresponding roughly to that standard (even if it comes with alot of other advice that can be quietly ignored). If we see that they are on a path leading away from their stated goal/standard, why not speak up? But, if someone posts a question w/o noting any particular overall goal (in their sig. or in their post), this is a classical education forum and it should be expected that responses will be largely from that perspective (although that's not always how it pans out).

 

IMO, when people with valuable advice to offer bite their tongues they might actually be doing a disservice to another homeschooler who is new or even those of us who aren't new but are uncertain. Personally, I want that well-intentioned advice; sometimes I even need it. Just like any advice in life, we can take what we want to use and politely ignore the rest. I want support in my endeavor to pursue classical education, and I think those that are pursuing education differently want support in their efforts as well. There is too much fear of stepping on toes or offending and it limits a wealth of experiential knowledge from being shared.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Annabel Lee

[Miss Sherry]

T...... I would love to see the forum include a classical education curriculum/teaching techniques board where those of us seeking advice on specific issues concerning the Great Books tradition, teaching logic and rhetoric, adapting curriculums to classical education needs, help with Latin, Greek, etc. would be able to discuss freely and glean tips from each other without needing to wade through a huge number of replies on the curriculum or high school board.

 

I don't mean to be exclusionary by any stretch, I love diversity and celebrate that. But, if we are stumped at some point on a Logic lesson or if I'm struggling with ds and a book on Socrates, it would be great to have a board to post to in which I don't have to worry about bewildered posts or even being flamed because I'm trying to explain the difference between Socratic and Aristotelian logic/philosophy to my 8th grader.

 

.............................................

Faith

Since there is not a main board that is exclusively for that maybe someone could start one on the "community" boards. There are a lot of boards for various topics on the community boards.

Someone could alert other classical homeschoolers that there is a conversation or new thread on the "community" board by announcing it on one of the main boards to attract attention to it. Only members to those particular boards can post on them.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[Audrey]

Except that some of us with younger kids have run across excellent-looking materials for older students that may well be worth considering. Or maybe we can make a recommendation based on our own experience as teens.

 

It's your prerogative whether or not you want to listen to anything I might have to say, but snobbery just might mean you miss out on useful information :tongue_smilie:

 

 

CW, I don't think that was about you at all. When Diane posted that, I immediately thought of someone who used to post here who had kids under grade 3 and who had only been hsing for a couple of years. It was always her way or the highway on every. single. homeschooling. topic. No curriculum was good enough until she had tweaked it to perfection and then she'd let everyone know exactly how they had to do it, too. Even when she asked advice, it was really just to ram her own already pre-formed opinion down everyone's throat. The funny thing is that I don't think she's even homeschooling anymore.

 

My dear.... that is soooooo not you. :001_smile:

[catz]

It's not any one thread or post that has prompted me to start this thread' date=' but just something I've noticed for some time.

 

....

 

Just my thoughts. :)[/quote']

 

Totally agree! Every kid and family dynamic is different.

 

For us, following the dogma of one particular homeschool approach or philosophy would not work at all. Using boxed grade level curriculum does not work for us either. For another family, it may all be a perfect fit.

[DianeW88]

CW, I don't think that was about you at all. When Diane posted that, I immediately thought of someone who used to post here who had kids under grade 3 and who had only been hsing for a couple of years. It was always her way or the highway on every. single. homeschooling. topic. No curriculum was good enough until she had tweaked it to perfection and then she'd let everyone know exactly how they had to do it, too. Even when she asked advice, it was really just to ram her own already pre-formed opinion down everyone's throat. The funny thing is that I don't think she's even homeschooling anymore.

 

My dear.... that is soooooo not you. :001_smile:

 

Oh, goodness, I had nobody in particular in mind when I posted. At all. And, I apologize sincerely if anyone mistook what I was saying. I was trying to be brief in my comments because I was short on time. I didn't mean to sound snotty. I'm sorry if I did or if I offended anyone.

 

However, I have encountered people in the homeschooling community who've been homeschooling for a very short time, or only the early elementary years, who suddenly think they're experts on EVERYTHING about homeschooling. And, unfortunately, they tend to be the type who love to tell everyone else how to homeschool, no matter what the age or grade of the children concerned. Loudly and frequently.

 

I tend to think that most parents homeschool their children in the best way they can. I also don't think there is one "right" way to homeschool. Only you know your children, and unless you ask for advice or help.....others should withhold their "constructive criticism".

 

Again, I should have clarified my remarks. I apologize.

[Pamela H in Texas]

We need to feel like it is okay to tell people that no, it isn't okay that you don't require xyz. I don't think anyone ever told me that even though I needed to hear it more than once.

 

I think it would be GREAT if we felt that way also and more because I would have liked to hear than I would have liked to have said my peace.

 

However, we had two threads that have come to my mind several times reading this thread. The one thread, the majority of people were appalled that someone would do X. The second was VERY soon after the first. It was from a mom who had done X. She knew it was wrong, but didn't see it changing immediately and wasn't willing to remedy the situation otherwise. Everyone came to her side, patting her on the back (which I think may have been appropriate as long as that wasn't ALL). The whole time I read the thread, I was like "but she was and *is* doing X!" and "why aren't y'all telling her to fix the situation like Y or Z, but that X is just unacceptable?!?!?"

 

Of course, I wasn't brave enough to do so especially since everyone else was by her side. But I just keep thinking how she's done X for years now and will likely continue to do X though it's not working and she knows it's wrong because she won't consider Y or Z and people practically okay'd X! When maybe had someone "slapped some sense into her" (ideally in a kind way, of course), maybe she'd do better.

 

And again, I was this mom in another way, I think. At some point, maybe someone could have said SOMETHING. Maybe it would have made a difference for me (or my child).

 

We're all responsible for ourselves, no doubt. I just think we have an opportunity to help one another.

[Jean in Newcastle]

However, we had two threads that have come to my mind several times reading this thread. The one thread, the majority of people were appalled that someone would do X. The second was VERY soon after the first. It was from a mom who had done X. She knew it was wrong, but didn't see it changing immediately and wasn't willing to remedy the situation otherwise. Everyone came to her side, patting her on the back (which I think may have been appropriate as long as that wasn't ALL). The whole time I read the thread, I was like "but she was and *is* doing X!" and "why aren't y'all telling her to fix the situation like Y or Z, but that X is just unacceptable?!?!?"

 

Of course, I wasn't brave enough to do so especially since everyone else was by her side. But I just keep thinking how she's done X for years now and will likely continue to do X though it's not working and she knows it's wrong because she won't consider Y or Z and people practically okay'd X! When maybe had someone "slapped some sense into her" (ideally in a kind way, of course), maybe she'd do better.

 

 

Sometimes that is a function of how well we in our internet community "know" the other people. I know that some people have Peek's rhino skin on and will respond well to good constructive criticism. So we give it to them. But other people are new or known to be prickly - those are the people we go easy on. Most of the time.;) (But since I can't identify the specific threads you're referring to, I could be totally off base.:001_huh:)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Jean,

 

That is true. I'm really *super* sensitive. Could we be forward AND extra sweet about it? LOL

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean,

 

That is true. I'm really *super* sensitive. Could we be forward AND extra sweet about it? LOL

 

Pull your big girl panties on, Woman! Please?:grouphug::D

[Rosie_0801]

I'm sure a thread titled "Please kick my butt" would get more than the average amount of, uh, constructive criticism.

 

 

:)

Rosie

[Halcyon]

But I just keep thinking how she's done X for years now and will likely continue to do X though it's not working and she knows it's wrong because she won't consider Y or Z and people practically okay'd X! When maybe had someone "slapped some sense into her" (ideally in a kind way, of course), maybe she'd do better.

 

And again, I was this mom in another way, I think. At some point, maybe someone could have said SOMETHING. Maybe it would have made a difference for me (or my child).

 

We're all responsible for ourselves, no doubt. I just think we have an opportunity to help one another.

 

 

:iagree: And my apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier opinionated post. Sometimes I forget I am talking to like-minded homeschoolers and not other people (coughfamilycough) :lol: I didn't mean to sound as though I knew what was right for other families.

[Annabel Lee]

I'm sure a thread titled "Please kick my butt" would get more than the average amount of, uh, constructive criticism.

 

 

:)

Rosie

 

 

 

:lol::lol::lol: Hasn't there been some w/ similar titles? Gosh, I could have written one of those at times.

[Stacy in NJ]

:hurray:

 

 

It's hard to generalize.

 

Some people need to relax, some need help trying harder. Some push their young dc, some don't challenge their dc enough as they get older. Some are stressed over every small detail, some worry too little about important things. Some cause their families whiplash running from one method/expert to another, some never seek outside advice even to a fault.

 

And then there are all the variables related to the dc...

 

Way too hard to generalize... :D

 

Ultimately, though, the warning I was speaking of in this specific instance (people with young dc): Don't spend more time planning out your curriculum for years at a time than actually talking to/ reading with/ spending time with your dc. Don't worry more about what other homeschoolers think of what you are doing than your dc and dh. Don't stress out your young child by worrying over them not being a prodigy and trying to work them like one anyway. Don't be in such a rush to be a "real homeschooler" that you start overly formal educational methods with very young children. Don't let your desire to "be a teacher" and "have a school" make your home a little public school building, complete with lack of flexibility. Don't convince yourself that you are such a homeschool expert based on your month of experience that you don't listen to others' helpful words.

 

Do spend more time teaching yourself than your dc when they are little. Do learn the material and methods of teaching more than every single curriculum and all their details. Do focus more on creating a lifestyle of intellectual pursuits (and modeling that yourself) than picking out the perfect curriculum. Do find balance between following every new fad versus never changing things that aren't working.

[Teachin'Mine]

Floridamama you didn't kill the thread!!! :D I'm sorry I haven't responded to everyone sooner, but this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own, and I was just reading evreyone's contributions. Thank you to all - it's been interesting to say the least. :)

 

Okay, now it can officially die a peaceful death - I'm about to hit "Submit Reply". :lol: