Amish---are they changing a great deal?

[Ottakee]

We just went to Shipshewana, IN this week. It is a large Amish and Mennonite area. It seemed like many of the Amish were more 'worldly" (I don't like that word but hopefully you know what I mean) than before.

 

Many of them had cell phones.

Many women were wearing crocs or flip flops with bare legs in public

Infants had very bright colored blankets/acc.

Bright floral print purses/bags were very common

At the store they were buying a lot of prepacked and "junk" food items

Bikes weren't your basic ones but mountain bikes, BMX trick bikes, etc.

Kids with bright colored/printed/graphic sweatshirts

 

These are just a few examples. I did see some more "traditional" Amish families---the black shoes and stockings, plain clothing, black purse/bag, etc. but they were fewer and farther between.

 

Now, I don't think any of this is wrong but just seems like it goes against their culture/beliefs. As a group are they becoming more liberal?

 

Another thought---is it to their financial benefit though to be "Amish" as in driving the buggies, dressing plain, etc? Just think--how many people would be attracted to Shipshewana Amish area if they weren't driving the buggies, dressing plain, etc. Does their income depend a great deal on the tourist industry? With buggy rides at $6-18/person, farm tours at $36/person, etc.

 

Again, just curious here. The Amish culture has interested me since I was young. One of our horses was very likely an Amish buggy pony for kids when he was younger.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Are you sure they were Amish?

 

Is it time for Rumspringer? :lol:

 

Maybe somebody's going crazywild and having junk food and wearing colours? :tongue_smilie:

[shannatheshedevil]

Well, I went up to Lancaster (home of the infamous Pennsylvania Dutch) this past fall and there were mostly traditional families up there- very quiet, very plain. I stopped and bought potatoes from one of the Amish farms up there and they were as traditional as traditional could be. There may be more modern groups where you were- I think it really just depends on where you go.

[Mrs Mungo]

We just went to Shipshewana, IN this week. It is a large Amish and Mennonite area. It seemed like many of the Amish were more 'worldly" (I don't like that word but hopefully you know what I mean) than before.

 

Many of them had cell phones.

Many women were wearing crocs or flip flops with bare legs in public

Infants had very bright colored blankets/acc.

Bright floral print purses/bags were very common

At the store they were buying a lot of prepacked and "junk" food items

Bikes weren't your basic ones but mountain bikes, BMX trick bikes, etc.

Kids with bright colored/printed/graphic sweatshirts

 

These are just a few examples. I did see some more "traditional" Amish families---the black shoes and stockings, plain clothing, black purse/bag, etc. but they were fewer and farther between.

 

Now, I don't think any of this is wrong but just seems like it goes against their culture/beliefs. As a group are they becoming more liberal?

 

Another thought---is it to their financial benefit though to be "Amish" as in driving the buggies, dressing plain, etc? Just think--how many people would be attracted to Shipshewana Amish area if they weren't driving the buggies, dressing plain, etc. Does their income depend a great deal on the tourist industry? With buggy rides at $6-18/person, farm tours at $36/person, etc.

 

Again, just curious here. The Amish culture has interested me since I was young. One of our horses was very likely an Amish buggy pony for kids when he was younger.

 

Are you sure some of those were not Mennonites? Mennonites are not as strict about that stuff.

[ktog29]

We have lots of Amish near us. They wear plain clothes, drive the buggies and are very nice. But, as one who shops in the Amish grocery store (NOT the touristy Amish Market, but the actual store with no sign or electricity where they shop), I can tell you that there is ALL junk food. :D

[Ottakee]

Are you sure they were Amish?

 

Is it time for Rumspringer? :lol:

 

Maybe somebody's going crazywild and having junk food and wearing colours? :tongue_smilie:

 

I think they might be various orders of Amish but they were riding in the traditional Amish buggies (all black, box style). At the grocery store there were likely 10-15 buggies all hitched to the hitching rail while they shopped. These were adult women, not teens sowing their "wild oats".

[Ottakee]

Are you sure some of those were not Mennonites? Mennonites are not as strict about that stuff.

 

NO, unless the Mennonites were in the Amish dress and in the buggies. Some were driving their buggies down the road while chatting on the cell phone with the bags of junk food in the back of the buggy and bright pink floral bag/purse next to them.

[FaithManor]

We are seeing that a little bit in our area. I think that the local bishop is relaxing up the rules a bit because the community was losing young couples at a pretty steady rate. Of course, what headed this off was that a little Amish girl collapsed in her yard while playing. The family did not have a phone, of course, and the dad didn't have a horse saddled up so he ran three miles to the nearest neighbor with a phone who wasn't home so he had to keep going house to house until he found someone home. Though the ambulance, when it received the alert, was only two minutes from that family's house, the little girl died of something that would have been very treatable had 911 been called promptly.

 

This grieving family was shunned for even calling 911 at all. Their friends, several young couples from the surrounding area, in response to the shunning, all converted to the Mennonite faith and got phones! So, the bishop let up on the phone thing. Then when a bunch of girls went "rumspringer" and decided they wouldn't come back unless the clothing rules were loosened a bit, he apparently didn't feel he could lose more people. Though all of the older women still wear exclusively traditional clothing, we now see young Amish women dressed more in line with the local traditional Mennonite community.

 

I doubt that this is very wide spread. I think it probably just has to do with the local bishop who is relied upon very heavily within the community for establishing the boundaries.

 

Faith

[Homemama2]

We go to Shipshewana constantly (in fact I was there today :001_smile:). There are ALOT of mennonites in the area. (Many of the ones you meet working at the stores etc.)

I agree though....sometimes when you see that I feel like saying, "Wow. You're really liberal...I don't even have a cell phone!" :lol: Of course, I'm probably one of the remaining 5 Americans that doesn't, lol!

 

 

ETA: Not that I thinking owning a cell phone is liberal of course....just would like to their expression. ;)

[Pamela H in Texas]

sounds like*some* of the mennonites where we were in TX. Seemed to be two sets.

[Teachin'Mine]

As has already been mentioned, there are varying degrees of "plainness" among the Amish and Mennonites.

 

Regarding the phones, the reason they don't have regular landlines in their homes is because it is an attachment - a dependency - to earthly things through others. I wish I could explain what I used to understand better, better. The same is true of electricity. If they had electricity coming to their home through the power lines, then that's another attachment dependent upon the power company. However, battery operated, air compressor run, propane run, appliances are fine. They also explained that it takes more of a concerted effort to light a propane light than it does to flick the switch on an electric one.

 

Some Amish farms have what look like outhouses, but are actually phones, on the outskirts of their property. Often these are shared among neighbors. The phone is generally used only an hour or so during the day for business purposes, and whenever needed in an emergency. For those in the building trades, a phone is often needed to coordinate with sub-contractors and to check on materials needed, talk with clients, etc. and the cell phone works well for this. It's not "attached" and is often turned off outside of business hours.

 

I think that it's all of us who want the Amish to stay just the way they are more so than they do. They don't change anything without very careful consideration of the benefits and consequences. They try to make sure that the change will not interfere in the family and religion being the center of their lives.

 

It's so interesting how different the communities are in Indiana, or Pennsylvania, or Ohio, etc.. I think they have a very simple, but not easy, and beautiful way of life.

[hornblower]

All I know about those communities is that some of the more notorious puppy mill operations are run there. Not an easy or beautiful thing at all to my eyes.

[Ottakee]

I think that it's all of us who want the Amish to stay just the way they are more so than they do. They don't change anything without very careful consideration of the benefits and consequences. They try to make sure that the change will not interfere in the family and religion being the center of their lives.

 

It's so interesting how different the communities are in Indiana' date=' or Pennsylvania, or Ohio, etc.. I think they have a very simple, but not easy, and beautiful way of life.[/quote']

 

I think this is all interesting. I talked with a lady once whose husband grew up Amish but left the church before being baptized. The rest of his family is still Amish. She had a lot of not so great things to say about their lifestyle. Since he is not shunned they still have regular contact with his family.

 

She said there is more and more special needs children due to mothers having children at older ages and the inbreeding in some families---not close but over generations there isn't "new" blood coming into the Amish church.

 

I know in the horse world many Amish have the reputation of being very cruel and rough with their horses, esp. in the training stages. Unless you know who the Amish trainer was, many people avoid an "Amish trained" horse.

 

I know they tend to be a very private people but I would love the change to sit down and talk with some of the women at length about anything and everything. I find it all fascinating.

[Barb_]

Well, I went up to Lancaster (home of the infamous Pennsylvania Dutch) this past fall and there were mostly traditional families up there- very quiet, very plain. I stopped and bought potatoes from one of the Amish farms up there and they were as traditional as traditional could be. There may be more modern groups where you were- I think it really just depends on where you go.

 

:iagree: I was in Disneyland a couple of years ago when I struck up a conversation with a couple of Amish (young) women. I told them they were making me homesick because we'd recently moved from the Lancaster area. One of the girls sort of smirked and and said, "Oh I'll bet they looked quite a bit different from us." And they did...oh they looked Amish, but Lancaster Amish? Nope.

 

Barb

 

ETA: Duh I forgot to mention my point. They said they were from Indiana.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Remudamom]

The Amish around here are very traditional. Blacks and blues, no bright colors. One or two phones the community uses for emergencies.

 

I am very fond of the two young Amish women whose dhs trained my horse. As you know, one of my horses died there though, and imo it was because of an accident that could have been avoided. My pony that they had before was in excellent shape while she was there.

 

Let's see, they had a dog I was extremely worried about that was nursing puppies, but the next time I saw it the pups were weaned and mom dog fat and healthy. And friendly, acted well treated.

[homeschoolally]

I don't know the answer about your specific question, but I read a book a few years ago about a woman who lived with the Amish for a research project.

If I recall correctly, she noted that the families she lived with didn't eat a particularly healthy diet. Wish I still had to book to confirm exactly what, but it left me with the impression that health food wasn't a priority to the Amish group she studied.

Looking forward to hearing more input on this--I find the Amish very interesting as well.

[Guest]

I wanted to become Amish (:D) until I heard about how they let their teenagers run wild. Some of what I read about was directly against the Bible, so I forgot about that idea.

[RoughCollie]

I just got back from Lancaster, PA. The Amish I talked to said most of them had cell phones (not connected to a landline network, so it's okay, was how it was explained to me).

 

I was quite disillusioned while there. Except for electric lights (and we could switch to whatever they use, including solar panels) and the car ... we live similar to the Amish already. Well, DH and I do. The kids would have a hard time giving up t.v., computers and video games. DH would have to find another line of work, but we could easily retire and live the Amish lifestyle with no significant differences except for transportation and using the internet. By then, it will be okay for some Amish to use the internet as long as they use the library's computers, I bet.

 

We went to an Amish dairy farm, and I think the cows across the street from me have a better life -- I couldn't see much difference in the two farms. The Amish farmer had several solar panels on the roof of his house ... a big deal to me because they are cutting edge and quite expensive. The Amish farmer sells his milk to Land 'O Lakes, and is all set up like any other dairy farm, sans electricity from an electric company. I didn't ask if he gives his cows hormones or antibiotics ... I didn't want to know. The cows were kept in the barn during the day, and each had electrified bars over them so they could not stand up and bolt.

 

I was told the farmers use modern pesticides on their crops. I was very surprised by that. Apparently they make more money because their output is so much greater than it would be if they grew crops organically. So I didn't buy any produce while I was there.

 

I was also told by some Amish that it is different depending on how "old style" the group is, and that being in a tourist area has a lot to do with how modern they are in Lancaster.

 

The weirdest thing was the Bird-in-Hand Farmer's Market. There were a lot of gift shop items, many of them made in China. What floored me were the Amish couple salt & pepper shakers, made in China, sold by the Amish. I didn't buy anything while I was there, except for moon pies (whatever they call them) for the kids to try.

 

I was told that they have mortgages, bank accounts, credit cards, shop at Wal-Mart for groceries. They borrow money and they get into debt -- that surprised me. When the eldest, I think it is, gets the farm or business, he has to get a mortgage loan -- he's paying fair market value for it. I thought it would be a gift, but no.

 

A couple of young men (who had not joined the church yet) told me they make $30 an hour doing unskilled labor for Amish construction companies who build expensive houses for the English. These guys hadn't joined the church yet, and were driving luxury cars. One of them told me he used to make quite a bit of money when he was a kid, by charging the tourists $5 to take a photograph of him.

 

One Amish guy is in college, and plans to be a vet, and not join the church at all because they won't let him be a vet if he joins. He won't be shunned though because he'd have to be a church member for that to happen. He said when his parents come to his house, he has to kick them out because they like watching t.v. so much. But his siblings won't let him take their children anywhere very often because they don't want them influenced by his English ways. He said he thinks the biggest reason many guys do end up joining the church is that they fall in love with Amish girls. He is determined not to do that because it would derail his plans to to be able to work as a veterinarian.

 

The food at the Amish-style restaurants was good, but disappointing to me. I don't even need a recipe to cook anything I ate there, except for cracker pudding, which I declined to taste. I had thought there was something special about their food, but it was ordinary, except they don't seem to use herbs and spices.

 

I never thought the Amish would sell out, but now I think some of them have, or at least are well on the way. I think the ones I met are basically just like everyone else except they don't have very much education, have excellent business sense, and they wear old fashioned clothes.

 

I went all over Lancaster county and I think the place is one big and over-priced tourist trap. We won't be returning, but I was glad to see an Amish area in person. I didn't see any of their puppy mills, thankfully. It was interesting, for sure. I know all the Amish in Lancaster don't live like the ones I talked to and saw, but I don't think the rest are on display for tourists.

Edited August 6, 2010 by RoughCollie

[mcconnellboys]

My only recent connection has come through our search for furniture. We found that everything in the stores around here is some mystery "hardwood" covered in a thin veneer with drawers that won't pull smoothly, etc. We decided we could buy furniture of real wood for the same price from a craftsman - we just had to find one.

 

So we drove almost all the way across southern Indiana one day through many Amish areas. We did note that most live in more modern style houses covered in siding, etc. They do seem to use electricity more, as well as motorized vehicles for at least some of their work.

 

However, most we visited were on gravel roads more off the beaten path. They were using horses and plows to work their fields. They were raising draft horses for heavy work. They did have buggies on their properties as well as a truck or two. They were making furniture with pretty simple, straight-forward machinery. And it was being made in a more traditional manner.

 

Their yards were brimming over with flowers. I'm guessing less TV/computer time equals more time to garden. There were also vegetable gardens in abundance.

 

One place we visited kept a general store on their premises for shopping by other Amish folk and we walked through it. They had pretty standard types of merchandise more reminescent of the 1960's when I was growing up (my family had a general store, too). They only sold non-perishable items, but they were the same sorts of things I've seen in other Amish groceries.

 

The ladies we talked to were in traditional dress with a hair cap and they were all barefoot in the summer weather.

 

The only children I saw was a babe in diapers and two little boys accompanying an older young man back from plowing in the fields. They were dressed in traditional Amish simple pants with shirts tucked in; sleeves rolled up. They all had on wide-brimmed summer hats.

 

Speech patterns were still somewhat old-fashioned, too, I noticed.

 

I do know that there are different degrees of adherence to traditional practices in different parts of the country, among different groups, so perhaps they are more modern in the area where you visited.

[LarlaB]

I'm not an expert, but I was born and raised in Lancaster County PA, my parents still live in Lancaster, surrounded by Amish families, and YES Amish are changing. :) You may recall the Amish school shooting that occurred a few years back...that was 5 miles from my parents home.

 

Perhaps a casual observer might not notice, but as someone whose mother has very close Amish friends, I've kept up with these things. :) After 30 years, my parents are very close to their neighbors and have been accepted into the Amish community. My mom is invited to school programs, weddings, special singings and more.

 

It depends on the local ministers/leaders as to particular rules. In my parents area (Southern Lancaster Country) as is tradition, Amish buy 'English' houses to be in proximity to their families & farms. The 'new' rule is that instead of gutting the house (Removing plumbing & electricity) the can move in, as is- as gutting the house is not particularly good use of resources. It has been an adjustment for me to see Amish folks living in very English homes. Its not the norm, but is more and more common.

 

Technology changes have to do with business- cell phones, computers. Many, many, many Amish people have cell phones. You certainly won't see them easily, but I have driven past more than a few fields to see them plowing w/ mules while talking on a cell phone. My mom still drives her neighbors, but she has also taught a few how to surf the internet. Again, its business oriented- not personal luxury.

 

Spiritually, they are changing as well. There seems to be a hunger in the younger generation. Without making generalizations, suffice to say that in our area it isn't necessarily a 'given' that all Amish people have faith in Christ, or a working understanding of Scripture (after all their sermons are preached in high German). My mom has actually led Bible studies (w/ the womens husbands & minister approval), has handed out books to Amish ministers and has invited Christian missionaries to her home to speak, and the Amish neighbors/ministers were the audience (and speechless).

 

I think they are still a simple people . I do think that over the last 20 years, Lancaster Co tourism has certainly changed the Amish, but I don't view it as much a selling out.

[LarlaB]

As has already been mentioned' date=' there are varying degrees of "plainness" among the Amish and Mennonites. [/b']

 

Regarding the phones, the reason they don't have regular landlines in their homes is because it is an attachment - a dependency - to earthly things through others. I wish I could explain what I used to understand better, better. The same is true of electricity. If they had electricity coming to their home through the power lines, then that's another attachment dependent upon the power company. However, battery operated, air compressor run, propane run, appliances are fine. They also explained that it takes more of a concerted effort to light a propane light than it does to flick the switch on an electric one.

 

Some Amish farms have what look like outhouses, but are actually phones, on the outskirts of their property. Often these are shared among neighbors. The phone is generally used only an hour or so during the day for business purposes, and whenever needed in an emergency. For those in the building trades, a phone is often needed to coordinate with sub-contractors and to check on materials needed, talk with clients, etc. and the cell phone works well for this. It's not "attached" and is often turned off outside of business hours.

 

I think that it's all of us who want the Amish to stay just the way they are more so than they do. They don't change anything without very careful consideration of the benefits and consequences. They try to make sure that the change will not interfere in the family and religion being the center of their lives.

 

It's so interesting how different the communities are in Indiana, or Pennsylvania, or Ohio, etc.. I think they have a very simple, but not easy, and beautiful way of life.

 

Agreed. I was raised Mennonite, but a very liberal breed. :)

[BridgeTea]

The Amish in my area are all still plain-clothed - just blue and black clothing on the men; blue, black, and white for the women; and I can never tell if the babies are boys or girls because they are all in light blue or white with plain blankies.

 

The buggies are black and boxy and the bicycles tend to be the older ones with coaster brakes. I did see one of the young guys going down the road on an electric wheelchair one day, though. And a lot of the yards have a good size collection of Little Tykes playground toys. Those are the only bright-colored things they seem to have, so it kind of stands out.

 

The Amish regularly hire locals to drive them to town for supplies in extreme weather, and they hire the "English" farmers to cut and bale their hay. The kids all ride their bikes and buggies to the fields, though, to load the bales onto the wagons, and the girls are out there working in full black dress and bonnets no matter how hot and humid it is.

 

Our local Amish run at least two businesses that I know of: a growing greenhouse operation that produces enough to sell at all the local farm markets, and a custom window shop. There may be a sawmill, too. The window shop has trucks in and out of it, so they are shipping windows off somewhere. They gave us a bid on a few windows one time, but it was the highest bid we got so bought elsewhere. The shop office has solar panels on the roof, but the residence directly behind it does not. I've heard that most of the farms have generators for their barns. Anyone who is a neighbor to the Amish always complains about the noisy generators, and wonders why they don't just go ahead and get electricity! (generator use by the Amish is new here)

 

Every town around has posts and shade for the horses near shopping areas.

If I run into an Amish woman in the grocery store, it's usually in the chocolate or potato chip aisle. I've seen a little cell phone use by the younger men.

[KIN]

We just went to Shipshewana, IN this week. It is a large Amish and Mennonite area. It seemed like many of the Amish were more 'worldly" (I don't like that word but hopefully you know what I mean) than before.

 

Many of them had cell phones.

Many women were wearing crocs or flip flops with bare legs in public

Infants had very bright colored blankets/acc.

Bright floral print purses/bags were very common

At the store they were buying a lot of prepacked and "junk" food items

Bikes weren't your basic ones but mountain bikes, BMX trick bikes, etc.

Kids with bright colored/printed/graphic sweatshirts

 

Well, you should have stopped by! We live just outside of Shipshewana. My family owns the Blue Gate Restaurant and several stores in town. My dad's side of the family is Old Order Amish - all my aunts, uncles, cousins and my late grandparents. We are members of a Conservative Mennonite church, my folks and brother are Mennonite.

 

Shipshewana is one of the most liberal places for Amish to live. They do not have phones in their homes, but can have cell phones for work. In town, they do not have electricity in their homes, but may use it for businesses. They do have modern bikes, beautiful solid color clothes, wear trendy flip flops/sandals, my cousin uses a computer to run his CAD system for work. They do have mortgages, use credit cards, and hire drivers to go places. In many ways it may seem, to outsiders, that they have sold out.

 

However, they still have a support system like few others. Their neighbors are their friends and church members. When someone is hurting they are there for each other. It is a slower pace of life, even with these "modern" things. In the evenings they visit neighbors, read a book on the porch, play volleyball, and more. They don't run to the next child's soccer game, watch the latest TV show, or surf the internet all evening.

 

Now, the Amish churches just to the east of Shipshewana are some of the most conservative you will find. Very plain, even to point of not painting a peeling home. They use no phones, no computers, no power lawn mowers - just the old fashioned rotary cutters.

 

It all depends where you live and what church district you are in. Most of my relatives are in very liberal churches. The Amish are Bible believing Christians with faults in their churches and homes just like people everywhere, lol.

[LibraryLover]

I went to an Amish quilt auction in Lancaster about 17 years ago, and I was very surprised at the number of folks in traditional dress (not Mennonite, I don't think) whose babies were using bottles and were wearing disposable diapers. The lot was filled with buggies and horses, but the babies were in Huggies and strollers. :)

 

They are real people, just like you & me. lol

 

Has anyone seen the documentary Devil's Playground? Very interesting.

 

 

We have lots of Amish near us. They wear plain clothes, drive the buggies and are very nice. But, as one who shops in the Amish grocery store (NOT the touristy Amish Market, but the actual store with no sign or electricity where they shop), I can tell you that there is ALL junk food. :D

Edited August 6, 2010 by LibraryLover

[mommaduck]

Yes, they are real people just like you and me. See my location ;) "Land of the Rapping Buggies with Runner Lights" (aka Lancaster County on date night) I could tell you tales that would shatter your rose coloured glasses :)

[tearose]

There are some Amish where I live in Wisconsin, and they seem pretty traditional with the buggies, clothing, draft horses, etc. However, I have seen some women using the laundromat in town (I guess they are still technically living without electricity since they're using the laundromat's electricity), and I saw a few recently at the Lands' End summer warehouse sale. The discounts there are pretty steep, so I'm sure it's much cheaper than sewing your own clothes.

 

I tend to avoid Amish produce because I've heard that some use a lot of pesticides. An Amish man who did some house repairs for my neighbor told him that he uses a pesticide that isn't even recommended for grass on his strawberries (my neighbor was kind of appalled).

[Teachin'Mine]

I think this is all interesting. I talked with a lady once whose husband grew up Amish but left the church before being baptized. The rest of his family is still Amish. She had a lot of not so great things to say about their lifestyle. Since he is not shunned they still have regular contact with his family.

 

There's good and bad about any family, and the dynamics of each family is unique.

 

She said there is more and more special needs children due to mothers having children at older ages and the inbreeding in some families---not close but over generations there isn't "new" blood coming into the Amish church.

 

I think it's wonderful that they welcome as many children as God gives them. :)

 

I know in the horse world many Amish have the reputation of being very cruel and rough with their horses, esp. in the training stages. Unless you know who the Amish trainer was, many people avoid an "Amish trained" horse.

 

We saw this being done in Indiana. The "trainer" wasn't Amish and was driving a pickup truck with the horse tied to the rear. We were horrified. We saw some horses who didn't appear to be well cared for, but saw others that were in beautiful condition. Unfortunately, the same can be said for the general population as well. It wasn't that many years ago that horses were used by everyone for transportation, work, etc. and the expression "whipping a dead horse" didn't come from nowhere. They started using cable cars in San Francisco because of the hazards to horses. So we tend to compare how horses are kept for pleasure riding as compared to horses which are used out of necessity. The families we've known took good care of their horses and were loved by the family. They told us that a few years back, there was a lot of public awareness about the hard life their horses had and the neglect or abuse of some, and they worked to educated the people in their communities and to make a concerted effort to make sure the horses were well cared for. Generally, we saw really beautiful horses in Pennsylvania, and generally there was a higher percentage of the more run down in Indiana. The economies of the two areas is very different too.

I know they tend to be a very private people but I would love the change to sit down and talk with some of the women at length about anything and everything. I find it all fascinating.

 

:)

[Teachin'Mine]

All I know about those communities is that some of the more notorious puppy mill operations are run there. Not an easy or beautiful thing at all to my eyes.

 

There could never be anything positive to say about puppy mills.

[Teachin'Mine]

:iagree: I was in Disneyland a couple of years ago when I struck up a conversation with a couple of Amish (young) women. I told them they were making me homesick because we'd recently moved from the Lancaster area. One of the girls sort of smirked and and said, "Oh I'll bet they looked quite a bit different from us." And they did...oh they looked Amish, but Lancaster Amish? Nope.

 

Barb

 

ETA: Duh I forgot to mention my point. They said they were from Indiana.

 

Yup, so many differences in the clothing, customs and even the look of the buggies.

[Teachin'Mine]

Yes, they are real people just like you and me. See my location ;) "Land of the Rapping Buggies with Runner Lights" (aka Lancaster County on date night) I could tell you tales that would shatter your rose coloured glasses :)

 

Oh wow - I never saw the neon lights! But the young ladies did talk rather excitedly about the singles get togethers. :lol:

 

The Amish families I know are the first to say that they and their kids are by no means perfect. Of course when there's something out of the norm, it makes headline news. In that way, similar to home schoolers. :)

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Spiritually, they are changing as well. There seems to be a hunger in the younger generation. Without making generalizations, suffice to say that in our area it isn't necessarily a 'given' that all Amish people have faith in Christ, or a working understanding of Scripture (after all their sermons are preached in high German).

 

 

Are you saying that their church services are conducted in a language that the church-goers do not speak? What would be the point?

[welovetoread]

There are a fair number of Amish and Mennonite here in Central Wisconsin. I get our milk from one Amish family. The farm is VERY clean. The cows are let outside every morning (after milking) and then when it gets hot, they are put into the barn with fans and let out again when it cools down after milking time in the evening. They do not use Antibiotics or hormones and they supply for a dairy that does promote hormone free milk!

They are very plain clothed as are their very young 4 boys. He does draft horses for heavy work and buggy. No vehicles. And apparently they LOVE Aldi!! lol

 

The Mennonite also have stores but they drive and are seen more frequently in Aldi and Walmart.

[M&M]

We just went to Shipshewana, IN this week. It is a large Amish and Mennonite area. It seemed like many of the Amish were more 'worldly" (I don't like that word but hopefully you know what I mean) than before.

 

Many of them had cell phones.

Many women were wearing crocs or flip flops with bare legs in public

Infants had very bright colored blankets/acc.

Bright floral print purses/bags were very common

At the store they were buying a lot of prepacked and "junk" food items

Bikes weren't your basic ones but mountain bikes, BMX trick bikes, etc.

Kids with bright colored/printed/graphic sweatshirts

 

These are just a few examples. I did see some more "traditional" Amish families---the black shoes and stockings, plain clothing, black purse/bag, etc. but they were fewer and farther between.

 

Now, I don't think any of this is wrong but just seems like it goes against their culture/beliefs. As a group are they becoming more liberal?

 

Another thought---is it to their financial benefit though to be "Amish" as in driving the buggies, dressing plain, etc? Just think--how many people would be attracted to Shipshewana Amish area if they weren't driving the buggies, dressing plain, etc. Does their income depend a great deal on the tourist industry? With buggy rides at $6-18/person, farm tours at $36/person, etc.

 

Again, just curious here. The Amish culture has interested me since I was young. One of our horses was very likely an Amish buggy pony for kids when he was younger.

 

 

I think we have this idyllic picture of the Amish, old fashioned, quaint Little House on the Prarie. We forget they are real fallen folks just like ourselves. They try to hold on to their tradtions while trying to survive in an ever changing world.

 

We know an Old Order Amish family in Lancaster, PA through a co-op. Every year they have a picnic for all of their customers (a lot of people). This family's diet and the products they sell are organic and straight from the Nourshing Tradtions cookbook. We also know an Old Order Mennonite family that also eats this way as well. Their traditional food is very basic, and you will find lots of white flour and sugar. Not much different from our grandmothers' food. Both families have phones to take orders from customers, the Amish family may now have cell phones.

 

I know that in Lancaster, you will find lots of "Amish" labelled things and places to eat that are not really Amish run- it is very commercial. We were fortunate enough to find places to go that were off of the tourist track, we ate in a resturant that was Amish run and lots of Amish families were there eating. We even went to a bookstore that sold Rod and Staff books.

 

There are all different types of Amish and Mennonites and you cannot often tell them from sight. Our Old Order Mennonite friends have a horse and buggy, wear patterened cape dresses, white head coverings, dark hose and shoes, and so do our Old Order Amish friends.

 

There are a couple of blogs that I find interesting

 

Eric Wesner travels around the country and lives, works, and writes about the Amish. http://amishamerica.com/ He even has a couple of entries about puppy mills. He also has a "Ask an Amish Man" entry if you read the comments you will see a few answers http://amishamerica.com/ask-an-amishman/

 

http://ajoyfulchaos.blogspot.com/ is an ex-Amish woman who is telling her story .

 

http://www.toginet.com/shows/amishwisdom Has some interviews with authors on the Amish, some of whom were Amish or from families with Amish roots.

[Meriwether]

Well, you should have stopped by! We live just outside of Shipshewana. My family owns the Blue Gate Restaurant and several stores in town. My dad's side of the family is Old Order Amish - all my aunts, uncles, cousins and my late grandparents. We are members of a Conservative Mennonite church, my folks and brother are Mennonite.

 

It all depends where you live and what church district you are in. Most of my relatives are in very liberal churches. The Amish are Bible believing Christians with faults in their churches and homes just like people everywhere, lol.

 

 

My paternal line is the Troyers from the Shipshey area. We could be distant cousins.:001_smile:

 

I typed out a response but my computer ate it. Maybe God was telling me to think before I respond. I'll try again tomorrow.

[jazzyfizzle]

Yes, they are real people just like you and me. See my location ;) "Land of the Rapping Buggies with Runner Lights" (aka Lancaster County on date night) I could tell you tales that would shatter your rose coloured glasses :)

 

LOL Same here. :rolleyes:

 

 

I always get a smile when I see your location phrase. When I was 16, my sister and I's first buggy ride (with her future husband and a friend) was at night with interior lights and a radio rocking. :tongue_smilie:

 

.............

Edited August 7, 2010 by jazzyfizzle

[mommaduck]

Oh wow - I never saw the neon lights! But the young ladies did talk rather excitedly about the singles get togethers. :lol:

 

The Amish families I know are the first to say that they and their kids are by no means perfect. Of course when there's something out of the norm' date=' it makes headline news. In that way, similar to home schoolers. :)[/quote']

Well, I have to admit that I appreciate the Amish over the ultra conservative mennonites and charity folk (that's a particular group, btw). The Amish know you aren't Amish, aren't trying to convert you, and are less likely to sit in judgement of you because they neither expect everyone else to do as they do and they are less likely to think they are "above" you (not saying that some don't think this way...you have some of those everywhere and in every faith and non-faith). Beachy are pretty nice also (a lot of them are ex Amish and one of the Amish ministers I know tells those that are wanting to leave that he would prefer them going to Beachy than to New Order or anywhere else...and several of his children have). Jo Wenger Mennonites (old order aka horse and buggy) are awesome people to know also. Very sweet. Like the Amish, they do their thing, you can have a conversation with them, and they don't judge you for doing yours.

 

There are two groups here can go fly a kite for all the judgment they do and my experience with them (between relatives and BTDT).

[mommaduck]

LOL Same here. :rolleyes:

 

 

I always get a smile when I see your location phrase. When I was 16, my sister and I's first buggy ride (with her future husband and a friend) was at night with interior lights and a radio rocking. :tongue_smilie:

 

We are seeing a lot of cell phone useage here also. The things that burn me up are mainly- the treatment/ lack of real, proper care of the animals (90% of time horses are bone thin, dogs living in stacked up- pooped down through- wire cages, puppies mass produced using any breeding dogs with papers one can get ahold of- no regard for working abililty even though farmers, let alone health testing, I could really go on but I won't), local guy here goes out in the woods and shoots anything (out of season!) that 'gets in his corn'. If one of our guys did that, they'd be getting #$@ tickets or arrested! It's always better if I shut up now about this subject, I always want to say.. ask me! ask me!

Unfortunately, yes, these things are issues. Some of them are conscious of the law and careful of what they do. Others just do as they darn well please (ex: making biblical excuses for growing, selling, and using certain illegal plants). It varies group to group and even family to family.

[mommaduck]

Are you saying that their church services are conducted in a language that the church-goers do not speak? What would be the point?

Tradition ;) They consider it a way of treating the Scriptures respectfully. The bibles are in High German (Luther's, ironically). An old order woman was teaching me German out of her's (so they aren't all ignorant of it ;) ).

[freethinkermama]

Are you saying that their church services are conducted in a language that the church-goers do not speak? What would be the point?

 

This is one of the important reasons a friend of mine left her Amish church; she couldn't understand the sermons. Now, that church district preaches in P.A. Dutch.

 

Tori

[FeFe]

I live close to Grabill Indiana and the Amish there seem to be more conservative than the Amish we see in Shipshewana. I think it has to do with the different church orders.

 

I like to visit the Menno-Hoff Museum when we go to Shipshewana. One of the things they tell you about the buggy driving is that is because they value life they see the automobiles as dangerous and to be guilty of taking another human life is too much to bare and then they break down to cost of buggy vs. auto and the conservation of the earth too. As far as making money from tourism, they certainly do.

 

The Amish here in Grabill, though they seem a little more conservative they do buy soda and junk food. I've seen a couple use a cell phone (not sure if they were conservative Mennonite or Amish) and I've even seem them purchase wine.

[mommaduck]

One of the things they tell you about the buggy driving is that is because they value life they see the automobiles as dangerous and to be guilty of taking another human life is too much to bare and then they break down to cost of buggy vs. auto and the conservation of the earth too.

:glare: Sorry, but this is just plain ignorant on their part. People died in carriage accidents often enough as well. Buggies are downright dangerous and have done a good job of causing accidents. Horses are not easily controlled and even I've had them nearly dodge out in front of me. They tear up the roads, as do the tractors with no rubber on the wheels. There are drunken buggy drivers as well and due to the hills and curves here, there have been buggies that have flipped on their sides. Then you have the Amish that let their kids get a license and buy a car for their teen years (and even Amish that drive...yes, there are Amish church members that drive). These are the most dangerous drivers on the road because they don't have a healthy respect for the road and the vehicle they are driving.

 

These are the issues that we see in Lancaster County.

[Remudamom]

I am acquainted with three Amish families. Two of them are the families that did some horse work for me. They are young families, married brothers that both lived on the same farm. One family lived in a small house and the other in a lean to shack on the side of the barn. The place was filthy, dirty and unkempt. The three small children ran around barefoot in all manner of animal poop. The two wives looked unhealthy and unloved, although they were friendly and gracious to me. After they warmed up to me (which took a while) they were absolutely a joy to visit and talk to.

 

The children are darling, although I can't see how they remain healthy in those conditions. The lean to has a concrete floor, and was smokey from the wood stove, with canned food all over the floor. My dds went out with me once while I was checking on my horse, and refused to get out of the car. They were appalled at the conditions in which these people lived. The ladies, Fannie and Lizzie said I was not like the other English, that they came out and couldn't take the dirt and smell of a farm. I wouldn't have said anything to them for the world, but I have to admit all those bare little feet around horses and in a barn made me shiver.

 

Fannie told me that the children speak nothing but German until they go to school at around seven, and then they study English. The little ones there couldn't understand a word I said to them, but knew I had treats for them, and eventually they'd meet my car with big smiles. One of the little girls was always trying to give me a puppy.

 

I brought them a pair of breeding guineas on one of my visits and they loved them!

 

Right down the road from them, the local harness guy lives. He and his family have a big nice farmhouse, lovely flowers and a big garden. Clean. He was almost unfriendly.

 

The difference in these two places astonished me.

[Meriwether]

The difference in these two places astonished me.

 

 

May I ask why this surprised you? From reading this thread, it seems that most people think the Amish/Mennonite should fit into a cookie cutter mold which seems odd to me. They are, after all, individual people. FWIW, one side of my family is from Bucks Co., PA and they had lovely, well-kept farms. The other side weren't dirty, but they did not have the same attitude toward their homes. My dad did go barefoot until he went to school (I believe he wore shoes to Church).

 

One of the things that surprised me in this thread were the comments about healthy food. Are they supposed to have healthy diets? I'd never heard that. Where I come from, Shoo Fly Pie and Funny Cake are breakfast foods. One great-grandma made 21 pies each week. Another was famous for her homemade ice cream (which my mom tells me was so good because she added extra sugar). My mom and aunts are tremendous cooks - delicious food, but healthy?, not so much.

 

I can't speak to all (or even most) Amish/Mennonites, but all 4 of my grandparents (as 10th gen. Americans) learned English in school. They could all understand the church services. In fact, two of my grandparents were raised by Bishops.

 

I have some issues with the Amish/Mennonite beliefs, but I also see a lot of good in them. I have seen many people take pot shots at them or speak critically of them (not speaking of this thread in particular, there seems to be a lot of first hand experience here) without actually knowing anything about them. They aren't perfect (I could tell you stories, but they are all second hand from my uncle, so I won't), but, really, do people really care if they buy potato chips?

 

Oh, and as far as birth defects and inbreeding. It is true that my family tree does tend to make a figure 8 (over the generations), and I will freely admit I haven't studied this. I tend to believe there are more birth defects in the general population than in previous generations. If there are more born to Amish/Mennonites than in the general population (which has not been noticed in my families), I'd guess it would have more to due with an abhorance of abortion than inbreeding.

[mommaduck]

Yes, and in fact some of them make potato chips. Good grief, it's food LOL! They love cream of everything also...that's how I learned to make casseroles LOL! From their kitchens :D

 

And as far as family trees go...well, if anyone does genealogy they will find that it's not as uncommon as people like to think.

[Ottakee]

May I ask why this surprised you? From reading this thread, it seems that most people think the Amish/Mennonite should fit into a cookie cutter mold which seems odd to me. They are, after all, individual people.

I would just say that I was always lead to believe that the Amish were NOT to stand out as individuals---same hair style, same clothing styles, same buggy styles, etc.

 

One of the things that surprised me in this thread were the comments about healthy food. Are they supposed to have healthy diets?

I would not say that I expect them to have a HEALTHY diet--as in low fat, low sugar, etc. but rather I was surprised at the amount of processed foods they were buying. I guess my stereotype was that they did more home cooking/home baking, etc.

 

 

Oh, and as far as birth defects and inbreeding. It is true that my family tree does tend to make a figure 8 (over the generations), and I will freely admit I haven't studied this. I tend to believe there are more birth defects in the general population than in previous generations. If there are more born to Amish/Mennonites than in the general population (which has not been noticed in my families), I'd guess it would have more to due with an abhorance of abortion than inbreeding.

I brought this up as I know that they were doing studies on the Amish in relationship to the genetics of bipolar because the Amish are generally able to trace their geneology back quite far where most of us "English" people can only go back a few generations.

[Meriwether]

May I ask why this surprised you? From reading this thread, it seems that most people think the Amish/Mennonite should fit into a cookie cutter mold which seems odd to me. They are, after all, individual people.

I would just say that I was always lead to believe that the Amish were NOT to stand out as individuals---same hair style, same clothing styles, same buggy styles, etc.

 

 

Yes, well, a private school can have school uniforms and a code of ethics, but that doesn't mean that the kids are all going to be the same.:)

[mommaduck]

Ottakee, the anabaptists that I'm familiar with (a variety of groups) can be very unhealthy as far as their diets go. They LOVE sugar, starches, more starches, and cream of anything (processed). We all shop at the same stores, from Walmart to Sharp Shopper to Shady Maple to a big egg farm. When I was in an ultra conservative community years ago, I was accused of not caring enough about my family...because I didn't fix a desert everyday and for both dinner and supper. I pointed out their issues with obesity and diabetes, then pointed to the fact that we were on a limited budget due to how little THEY paid my husband (oh, and my husband was a bad husband for not buying me a Bernina sewing machine...my old Singer was doing just fine, tyvm).

 

But like everyone else, there is variety. There ARE those that are concerned about living healthy. Just not everyone.

[Tangerine]

Ottakee, the anabaptists that I'm familiar with (a variety of groups) can be very unhealthy as far as their diets go. They LOVE sugar, starches, more starches, and cream of anything (processed).

 

My mom buys raw milk from an Amish family. She was very interested in their yogurt, until she found out they flavor it with kool-aid. :001_huh:

[Mimm]

I see families in conservative dress around here. Blues and blacks, with head coverings. The men in wide brim hats and the babies in plain clothes. We must have a community nearby. I mostly see them in Walmart. I assumed they were Mennonite because of the cell phone usage and the fact that they arrive in a large van. Maybe they are a somewhat less conservative Amish community though.

 

I think a lot of people are interested in the Amish way of life because we idealize it. Something is us is drawn to the simplicity and gentleness of it, but none of us really wants to give up air conditioning, blue jeans and internet connections. (And if we did want to live without these things, we probably already are.) And I can live without waking up in the early morning to milk cows, thank you very much. :)

[BridgeTea]

do people really care if they buy potato chips?

I'll speak to this, as I was the first to mention the chocolate and potato chip purchases by my Amish neighbors...

 

Shoot, no, I don't care what anyone else eats!

 

It just cracks me up that it's the only section of the store where I literally park my cart behind a whole line of other carts and wait my turn for the Lay's or Hershey bars on a regular basis. I'm in my blue jeans and t-shirt, and all the other women have on long black dresses. Doesn't bother me one bit, as long as they don't grab the last of something I have a craving for that day! If that ever happens, then there may be some less-than-neighborly behavior. ;) Come to think of it, it wouldn't make sense if they crowded the produce aisles (they grow their own), the meat aisles (they grow their own), or the clothing aisles (they're still making their own here).

 

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone. I didn't mean to sound judgmental or critical.

 

One more note: I have been kind of surprised to hear of the unkempt farms, poor treatment of animals, or puppy mills. That hasn't been my experience here, thankfully. But of course that just proves once again that the Amish no more fit in a mold than anyone else.

Edited August 6, 2010 by BridgeTea
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