Just curious, how many aren't pursuing a 4 year university for your children?

[LNC]

Our family background is to idealize/idolize education of the ivy league/liberal arts graduate degree type. My daughter is only 11 and I believe gifted intellectually. She probably could get into a good state university - we were working towards that and could afford it. However, our immediate family has many medical issues. We are surrounded by the medical field on a daily basis. My children have always wanted to work in that area. My youngest son with type 1 diabetes has always wanted to be a ped endo or biomedical engineer working with type 1 diabetes in some way.

 

This summer we have been exposed to medical vocations more than ever, and I've been looking at some of these jobs with interest with my daughter. We've had several doctors and techs chat with us about good fields to look into. She isn't that thrilled with nursing bc of the sadness she associates with it - from my critically ill 16yo son...

 

She is very interested in diagnostic medical sonography. It is a two year degree though but pays very well. She could go into sonography in ob/gyn, abdominal, echo/heart, or even nicu brain ultrasounds. It seems perfect. Yet, no 4 year degree. She says that she wants to work in the medical field, go on medical mission trips, volunteer at crisis pregnancy centers and yet be open to marry and start a family in her early twenties.

 

I can see my pride in wanting intellectual success story children from our homeschool. I look at our state homeschool graduates profiles and shudder at all the community college goals, and here we are considering the same sort of thing. I know it is way too early to consider this - only 6th grade! But, it is a major paragigm shift in my thinking and I wanted to see if anyone else is considering anything like this while classically educating? How much value do you see in a 4 year degree in this day and age, when we are training our children through homeschooling to be autodictacts :).

Edited August 3, 2010 by LNC

[ReneTL]

It sounds like a very reasonable path to me, especially since college is the new high school. I tell this story all the time about a history professor (PhD) I know at a large state university. I asked about her summer plans last spring and she said she was taking 3 graduate courses. I, of course, was shocked and asked her if she was just a glutton for punishment. Her response was that she really didn't like her job, never intended to teach high school and that is what her job had become. Her plan is to get training in research so she can help those pursuing post graduate degrees.

 

We are very open to alternatives to the standard 4 year degree. I would much rather my children take some time to travel, do mission work, etc. than jump through hoops just so they can get a job they enjoy. It sounds like you have a wonderful, fulfilling career opportunity. Remember, there is no law that says a 4 year degree must be earned by the time you're 21.

 

Good Luck!

Rene

[Miss Marple]

I have a niece and brother in law who are both sonographers. One thing they have mentioned is that employers tend to give preference to those with 4 year degrees over those with 2 year associates. My niece had an associates and went back to complete a bachelors in biology along with the sonography program. It is an excellent field, pays well, and has flexible hours.

[Laura Corin]

It sounds good - in the UK you need a three or four year degree to do it though.

 

Laura

[LNC]

I have a niece and brother in law who are both sonographers. One thing they have mentioned is that employers tend to give preference to those with 4 year degrees over those with 2 year associates. My niece had an associates and went back to complete a bachelors in biology along with the sonography program. It is an excellent field, pays well, and has flexible hours.

 

 

That is interesting. We have talked with several doctors and sonographers this summer. No one has said anything like that. They all mentioned going to a specific associates degree accredited program about 45 min. away. They also mentioned becoming registered through The American Registry for Diagnostic Medical Sonography (ARDMS).

 

This is what I found online:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/Careers/05/04/cb.associates/

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos273.htm

http://www.collegeboard.com/csearch/majors_careers/profiles/majors/51.0910.html

Edited August 3, 2010 by LNC

[LNC]

duplicate post

Edited August 3, 2010 by LNC

[Jann in TX]

The two year degree is entry level. To move up more classes are taken in a 'specialized' area. It is usually preferred that one works at the entry level while taking the additional courses--many jobs will even pay the tuition for these.

 

There is nothing magical or 'better' about a 4 year degree. There are PLENTY of worthless 4 year degrees and PLENTY of excellent 2-year degrees.

 

In many of the specialized tech fields (like medical tech) job opportunities/positions are not handed out by degree--but by CERTIFICATION... you take the classes then sit for a certification exam in a specific area/tool. You may have a 4 year 'degree' but you will not be allowed to perform sonographies without the certification.

 

Same goes for fields like radiology techs... you begin with a 2 year degree that allows you to take basic x-rays... while you are working you take additional classes and work toward specialized areas such as mammography, CT, MRI... the more specialized you are the more you are paid.

 

Many of these 2 year 'tech' degrees pay MORE than some 4 year degrees.

 

In most states, universities/colleges do not offer these courses... sure you can get a blanket 'biology' degree--but you would still end up back at a community college or tech center for the courses needed for the 2 year certification program...

 

In Texas most of the courses required for a 2 year associates in a medical tech field will NOT transfer to a 4 year as part of one of their degree programs... In other words these programs are NOT compatible... radiology techs/ sonography techs do NOT need an additional 4 year degree and a 4 year degree will not get you the courses needed to be one!

[Miss Marple]

There are some other factors to look at as well. The Univ. of OK offers a 4 year degree as do other state schools. Many states simply have tech schools that specialize in a 2 year degree. The important component to either one, though, is the amount of registries one has. Each specialty has a registry (certification) component. Depending on the employer, one registry in a specific field may be fine (if working at a fetal imaging center), others (i.e. hospitals) would like as many as possible. Both my niece and brother in law have all available certifications.

 

From talking with them, I think this field is similar to the nursing field years ago. 20 years ago a 2 year RN degree was great, but the 4 year RNs got the supervisory positions and there was typically more advancement potential. Pharmacy is similar. Previously a BS was the most common degree for the average working pharmacist. Today, a PharmD will get preference over a BS in most cases.

 

A 2 year sonography degree will certainly be marketable. In fact, based on the data I've seen, that field should be hiring a lot in the years to come. There are many ways to get to this position - specialized tech school, community college, or 4 year university. My niece didn't want to spend 4 years at college. She married at 20 and wanted to work for a while. But she found, as she was job shopping, that a 4 year degree would really enhance her resume.

 

One does not need to get a 4 year degree and then go to tech school for 2 years. A 4 year degree in sonography is available at many universities.

[LNC]

 

One does not need to get a 4 year degree and then go to tech school for 2 years. A 4 year degree in sonography is available at many universities.

 

I've looked at accredited programs in our state and there is nothing at any 4 year school. There are 7 programs - all associates degrees. My understanding is the associates degree near us is general and entry level and then she would pursue specific certifications and then continuing education. That is why I'm asking about associates degrees - there is no opportunity to pursue this field in my state any other way!

 

I guess I'm not asking about diagnostic medical sonography, bc I've looked into it already. I am interested in other classical educators who have explored the idea of community college or associates degrees. Especially with a background who really prizes higher education and a bright child. Like I said in my op, it is a real paradigm shift for me and that is more what I'm wanting to talk about :).

Edited August 3, 2010 by LNC

[FaithManor]

DD is on a non-traditional path and we are big "get a degree" fans here because in Michigan, without a degree, it's pretty hard to get employment with the economy soooooo bad and the manufacturing and construction industries demolished.

 

But, her top choice school for a B.S.N. in nursing was just too expensive. She chose a less expensive alternative from amongst the many schools she was accepted to but at the last minute, we found out from several in the local medical community, that their B.S.N. degree isn't all that they purport it to be. We weren't inclined to spend our hard earned dollars on that program.

 

So, she took a gap year and took an E.M.T. course. Through this, she found out how much she loves emergency medicine and will want to specialize in that when she gets into nursing. She is now in paramedic school through a teaching hospital program that is accredited. When she does finally go to nursing school, probably a good state school near here, she will have three semesters of credits to transfer in and be in an accelerated B.S.N. program while she continues to work at least one shift per week as a paramedic.

 

It wasn't what we expected to happen but it has been wonderful for her. She did kind of have some "astigma" to get over with some of the teens in the youth group in her age range. They are all college bound, traditional four year program participants and seemed horrified that she was doing something different. To be honest, my mil - a retired nursing professor - is still queasy about it though she doesn't say much.

 

I think that you do what fits your child. We are actually planning gap years for two of our three boys and that's not common around here at all.

 

Faith

[jld]

I think it's great that you're open to "non-traditional" paths, LNC.

 

I posted a few months ago about telling my son who wants to be a writer to just skip college and start working at Subway right off the bat, lol. That will not get any support from extended family, but at least he could get right into writing and see if it's what he wants to do.

 

I just don't think there are any guarantees. I really want the kids to do what they are interested in, stay out of too much trouble, and eventually be able to support themselves.

 

Honestly, with all the environmental and economic injustice issues we are facing and will likely continue to face in America and the world, I think in coming years we may not be so worried about whether our kids have a degree or what kind of degree it is or where it is from. We'll probably just be hoping they make their way somehow and without too much debt.

[Miss Marple]

But, it is a major paragigm shift in my thinking and I wanted to see if anyone else is considering anything like this while classically educating? How much value do you see in a 4 year degree in this day and age

 

I think there is great value in certain 2 year degrees. Like Jann in TX said, there are worthless (in terms of job seeking) 4 year degrees as well as worthless 2 year degrees. Personally, I don't tailor my homeschooling towards specific interests of my kids (other than perhaps electives). Whether they pursue a 2 year degree, certificate, or a 4 year degree, or even post-college studies, they will receive the same education from me. And, hopefully, that home education will ensure that they can do either type of program.

 

A good sonographer is a blessing to any medical community.

[KS_]

Personally, I don't tailor my homeschooling towards specific interests of my kids (other than perhaps electives). Whether they pursue a 2 year degree, certificate, or a 4 year degree, or even post-college studies, they will receive the same education from me. And, hopefully, that home education will ensure that they can do either type of program.

 

 

That's where I'm at, too - I don't know if my kids will pursue a 4-year degree or not. It's not something I will try to force them to do. Right now, my 11 yo ds thinks school is a total waste of his time, so I'm definitely not trying to push the idea that he has to continue his education past high school. . .I certainly hope he will find something that excites him, but it's just one day at a time at this point :tongue_smilie:

[tex-mex]

 

We are very open to alternatives to the standard 4 year degree. I would much rather my children take some time to travel, do mission work, etc. than jump through hoops just so they can get a job they enjoy. It sounds like you have a wonderful, fulfilling career opportunity. Remember, there is no law that says a 4 year degree must be earned by the time you're 21.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[swimmermom3]

I've looked at accredited programs in our state and there is nothing at any 4 year school. There are 7 programs - all associates degrees. My understanding is the associates degree near us is general and entry level and then she would pursue specific certifications and then continuing education. That is why I'm asking about associates degrees - there is no opportunity to pursue this field in my state any other way!

 

I guess I'm not asking about diagnostic medical sonography, bc I've looked into it already. I am interested in other classical educators who have explored the idea of community college or associates degrees. Especially with a background who really prizes higher education and a bright child. Like I said in my op, it is a real paradigm shift for me and that is more what I'm wanting to talk about :).

 

The type of paradigm shift you are talking about is a large, and for me, uncomfortable one. It is one we are faced with right now. My dd would like to attend cosmetology school after she graduates from high school. She does not care for a traditional learning environment. She is more of a hands-on learner and is very artistic. She has cut her friends' hair since they were freshmen and does hair and make up for three other girls before all dances. In the last 24 hours, she has come up with a plan that allows her to finish high school at home, work, and save for cosmetology school. She would finish the two year program debt free and with a license.

 

I understand her reasoning and think she is on the right track, but I struggle with it. This same child was pursued by her high school teachers for two years to join the debate team because she has the ability to state her case intelligently, logically, yet passionately all at the same time. She consistently brings world issues to our dinner table and loves to engage in literary analysis discussions. She just hates school. My dh and I have 3 degrees and 2 professional licenses between the two of us. My family will never understand my dd's decision and will be completely unsupportive and negative. Yes, it's a shift, but you do what's necessary when raising kids. At least, that's what I am telling myself this morning.

[Gwen in VA]

What we tell my ds2, who is bright and articulate and academically really strong --

 

If you have a strong plan to get you where you want to go without a college degree, we are open to discussing it.

 

If you don't have a solid plan in place, you should get a 4-year engineering degree. Even if you never end up "using" it, the experiences and education will stand you in good stead, and a degree in naval engineering will always allow you to put bread on the table if the hand-built wooden boat market falls apart! :)

[elegantlion]

 

If you have a strong plan to get you where you want to go without a college degree, we are open to discussing it.

 

 

 

This is probably where we will be. Neither dh nor I have a degree. Dh is currently thinking of going back to get an Associates to help change careers. Kind of a scary thought at his age.

 

Ds is still forming interests, but right now the thought of academics is not near and dear to his heart. :glare: As he gets older we will pursue all avenues to further his education and make sure it can be a viable career that will support a family.

 

I've already looked into some 18 month computer programs designed for specific training. I guess my goal is to know what's out there should he chose not to pursue a four year degree.

[LNC]

. Personally, I don't tailor my homeschooling towards specific interests of my kids (other than perhaps electives). Whether they pursue a 2 year degree, certificate, or a 4 year degree, or even post-college studies, they will receive the same education from me. And, hopefully, that home education will ensure that they can do either type of program.

 

 

Yes, I plan on continuing the classical education model either way! I see our homeschool as an opportunity to begin the lifelong quest of self education. There is so much we will study together still, regardless of how she pursues higher education! We'll still add Latin in the Logic stage and continue on through Rhetoric. The only thing that would change for her in this case is a switch to dual enrollment instead of AP courses in high school to speed her degree requirements along.

 

Thanks for continuing the discussion everyone. This is really helpful for me...

[gingersmom]

Not only do I want (expect) them to get 4 year degrees, I want them to get their Masters. I would really love for my son to get his Phd.

[swimmermom3]

Not only do I want (expect) them to get 4 year degrees, I want them to get their Masters. I would really love for my son to get his Phd.

 

What you want and expect for your children may not be what they want and expect for themselves no matter how much emphasis you place on your personal goals while they are growing up. Ask me how I know this.:tongue_smilie:

[LNC]

Not only do I want (expect) them to get 4 year degrees, I want them to get their Masters. I would really love for my son to get his Phd.

 

Ouch. You aren't a member of my extended family are you?:tongue_smilie:

[emzhengjiu]

I hope both my daughters earn 4 year degrees, preferably immediately after highschool. A gap year would be great but I've seen first hand how hard it is for adults to go back after being out of school for several years. I've found it's much easier to earn a graduate degree than a 4 year one as a returning adult student.

[Geek]

The type of paradigm shift you are talking about is a large, and for me, uncomfortable one. It is one we are faced with right now. My dd would like to attend cosmetology school after she graduates from high school. She does not care for a traditional learning environment. She is more of a hands-on learner and is very artistic. She has cut her friends' hair since they were freshmen and does hair and make up for three other girls before all dances. In the last 24 hours, she has come up with a plan that allows her to finish high school at home, work, and save for cosmetology school. She would finish the two year program debt free and with a license.

 

I understand her reasoning and think she is on the right track, but I struggle with it. This same child was pursued by her high school teachers for two years to join the debate team because she has the ability to state her case intelligently, logically, yet passionately all at the same time. She consistently brings world issues to our dinner table and loves to engage in literary analysis discussions. She just hates school. My dh and I have 3 degrees and 2 professional licenses between the two of us. My family will never understand my dd's decision and will be completely unsupportive and negative. Yes, it's a shift, but you do what's necessary when raising kids. At least, that's what I am telling myself this morning.

If she wants more of a challenge (as well as the increased income that follows), you might want to encourage her to specialize in hair color, especially corrective coloring. That requires good analysis skills and nerves of steel, and it pays well.

 

Not only do I want (expect) them to get 4 year degrees, I want them to get their Masters.

This. I'm open to seeing where their lives take them, and honestly I don't think my aspie will make it through a 4-year degree. But I intend to steer them toward science or medicine and equip them in that direction. Who knows what they'll end up doing, though. I do know that my 8yo daughter's image of herself includes things like "biologist" or "pediatric orthopedist"; these are the things I suggest when she wants to imagine and asks me what I think she'd be good at. Edited August 3, 2010 by Geek

[Deb in NZ]

My family values degrees. Both my parents had degrees & all my siblings as well. Even one grandparent had a degree. In Dh's family none of his parents or siblings have a degree, but all four of his neices have/are working on degrees.

 

We ask our dc, not what do they want to study & do they want to go to uni, but instead where do they see themselves working at in 10 years. From there we look at how to best prepare them for that career.

 

Dd wants to travel & work either in missions or helping to preserve the environment. To better allow her to do this she does need some qualifications, but 4 years at uni wasn't the best option IMHO. Instead she found that she could attend polytech instead of uni & after 2 years study, she would have earned a Diploma of Marine Studies (a diploma in NZ is like an associates degree) + many practical qualifications that better prepares her for the work she wants. She has the option of continuing for a 3rd year to earn her BS-Marine Biology if she wants, but even without the BS she'll be able to find work in her field. She is planning on doing the 3rd year at this time as it will open a few more doors in later years. Going to uni wouldn't have given her any advantage over what she is doing now & she would have had a bigger student loan at the end to pay back.

 

Both boys are looking at apprenticeships as they want to work with their hands. DH did a 5 year apprenticeship & in many ways was better trained for the work he does than I was with my BS + some postgrad work. None of my dc see education ending when they finish "school." Dd studies philosophy, Latin, & ecology currently in her spare time. She does this becasue she wants to, not to earn credits. My boys are forever seeking knowledge on topics of interest, not in my plans for them this year. A university degree doesn't guarantee that someone recieved a good education & will get a good job, & the lack of a degree doesn't mean that a person is uneducated.

 

JMHO,

[swimmermom3]

My family values degrees. Both my parents had degrees & all my siblings as well. Even one grandparent had a degree. In Dh's family none of his parents or siblings have a degree, but all four of his neices have/are working on degrees.

 

We ask our dc, not what do they want to study & do they want to go to uni, but instead where do they see themselves working at in 10 years. From there we look at how to best prepare them for that career.

 

Dd wants to travel & work either in missions or helping to preserve the environment. To better allow her to do this she does need some qualifications, but 4 years at uni wasn't the best option IMHO. Instead she found that she could attend polytech instead of uni & after 2 years study, she would have earned a Diploma of Marine Studies (a diploma in NZ is like an associates degree) + many practical qualifications that better prepares her for the work she wants. She has the option of continuing for a 3rd year to earn her BS-Marine Biology if she wants, but even without the BS she'll be able to find work in her field. She is planning on doing the 3rd year at this time as it will open a few more doors in later years. Going to uni wouldn't have given her any advantage over what she is doing now & she would have had a bigger student loan at the end to pay back.

 

Both boys are looking at apprenticeships as they want to work with their hands. DH did a 5 year apprenticeship & in many ways was better trained for the work he does than I was with my BS + some postgrad work. None of my dc see education ending when they finish "school." Dd studies philosophy, Latin, & ecology currently in her spare time. She does this becasue she wants to, not to earn credits. My boys are forever seeking knowledge on topics of interest, not in my plans for them this year. A university degree doesn't guarantee that someone received a good education & will get a good job, & the lack of a degree doesn't mean that a person is uneducated.

 

JMHO,

 

Thanks, Deb. I love your post. The older I get, the less I respect my degrees and the more I value my love of learning. This is my end goal for my children, not necessarily the paper. I know too many people for whom education did end when they walked out of the university doors.

[Niffercoo]

 

 

I can see my pride in wanting intellectual success story children from our homeschool. I look at our state homeschool graduates profiles and shudder at all the community college goals, and here we are considering the same sort of thing. I know it is way too early to consider this - only 6th grade! But, it is a major paragigm shift in my thinking and I wanted to see if anyone else is considering anything like this while classically educating? How much value do you see in a 4 year degree in this day and age, when we are training our children through homeschooling to be autodictacts :).

 

 

5 years ago this coming September I had to let go of the "All of my kids will get a 4 year degree right after high school" mindset. When Reece was diagnosed with autism, we were given a laundry list of everything she wouldn't be able to do. 8 months later when Austin was evaluated for ASD, and what I hoped were just run of the mill LDs, we were greeted with a low-average IQ. I was again given a list of what he wouldn't be able to do.

 

Reece is too young to know what life might hold for her in another 10 years... she has far surpassed the expectations of the doctor when she was 3. Austin struggles quite a bit academically. He wants desperately to go to college, and the "4 year college" mindset has actually hindered him as he already rules himself as a failure because he's not taking Algebra 1 as an 8th grader like most of the kids he knows.

 

My goals right now are to take him (and his sister) as far as possible, as far as he is capable of going, academically. His neurologist just referred us for another round of testing. She wants us to have a paper trail in case he applies for college and could be eligible for accommodations in both admissions and class load.

 

I'm clinging to the belief that God has great plans for my children, and I pray that I'm open to all of the options. But it's been a rough transition for me mentally.

[jld]

(((Niffercoo)))

[LNC]

5 years ago this coming September I had to let go of the "All of my kids will get a 4 year degree right after high school" mindset. When Reece was diagnosed with autism, we were given a laundry list of everything she wouldn't be able to do. 8 months later when Austin was evaluated for ASD, and what I hoped were just run of the mill LDs, we were greeted with a low-average IQ. I was again given a list of what he wouldn't be able to do.

 

Reece is too young to know what life might hold for her in another 10 years... she has far surpassed the expectations of the doctor when she was 3. Austin struggles quite a bit academically. He wants desperately to go to college, and the "4 year college" mindset has actually hindered him as he already rules himself as a failure because he's not taking Algebra 1 as an 8th grader like most of the kids he knows.

 

My goals right now are to take him (and his sister) as far as possible, as far as he is capable of going, academically. His neurologist just referred us for another round of testing. She wants us to have a paper trail in case he applies for college and could be eligible for accommodations in both admissions and class load.

 

I'm clinging to the belief that God has great plans for my children, and I pray that I'm open to all of the options. But it's been a rough transition for me mentally.

:grouphug:Thanks for that reminder, I have 4 children, two with special needs. I trust more for their future in some ways bc it is so out of my control... Ultimately, though that is the truth with all four of our children...

[PollyOR]

Not only do I want (expect) them to get 4 year degrees, I want them to get their Masters. I would really love for my son to get his Phd.

 

I hope things work out. Really, I do. In my case, my dd grew up and started making her own decisions. It was really hard to watch :ack2: But, there was nothing I could do about it, because she was an adult. The moment a child is born we begin to relinquish control. It is gradual but eventually complete.

[asta]

Not only do I want (expect) them to get 4 year degrees, I want them to get their Masters. I would really love for my son to get his Phd.

 

Welcome to my family. Sure, no one said it out loud - just as no one said "you'll finish college before you even THINK of getting married, your kids will either have a nanny or go into daycare because you WILL HAVE A CAREER BY GOD BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE WOMEN BEFORE YOU WORKED SO HARD FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO HAVE".

 

Nope. No one actually said that.

 

They just treated me like crap when I went into the Army. And then didn't think I could "hack" college (cum laude w/honors, baby). And then wondered why I "was wasting my life" staying home with my kid, because it didn't matter what volunteering I did if I wasn't getting a W-2 statement (that is a tax and earnings statement BTW).

 

Yep. Expectations are a wonderful thing. I prefer not to have them.

 

 

asta

[Maverick_Mom]

My oldest -- who was minimally homeschooled, FWIW -- is the quintessential student. She thrives in an academic environment. She's a semester away from graduation and wants to go to graduate school. She's like her mom.

 

Her sister, however, has zero interest in college. She is extremely bright, articulate, and well-read -- she just hates most formal academics and prefers to teach herself. I don't see her going the 4-year route (or even the 2-year route, at this point), but that could change once she has a better sense of what she wants to do in the coming years.

 

My youngest is an Aspie. He tolerates a minimum of formal academics. The subjects he knows best are the ones he's immersed himself in -- nature study, for example. He can tell you obscure details about birds-of-prey, but turn it into schoolwork and he shuts down. His attitude about college (at the tender age of 9) was summarized this way: "I'm not going to college. It's giant schoolery."

 

A part of me wishes all my kids would go to college. I have to confess :blush: that in part, that's because of academic snobbery rather than practicality or farsightedness. It is an ongoing lesson in humility and unconditional love for me to accept my children for who they are without regard for credentials, present or future. And I say that without judging anyone else for their wishes for their children. :)

[Night Elf]

My children will earn high school diplomas, and that is where my obligation as a parent to educate my children ends. I come from a family of white collar workers. College is a luxury, not a necessity. And college is an adult choice to choose for him/herself.

 

Dd18 just wants to complete her "stupid" high school diploma and continue working at her job where she hopes to move up from Shift Manager to Manager. She knows what she wants and is happy. I can't think of anything better.

[Supertechmom]

The type of paradigm shift you are talking about is a large, and for me, uncomfortable one. It is one we are faced with right now. My dd would like to attend cosmetology school after she graduates from high school. She does not care for a traditional learning environment. She is more of a hands-on learner and is very artistic. She has cut her friends' hair since they were freshmen and does hair and make up for three other girls before all dances. In the last 24 hours, she has come up with a plan that allows her to finish high school at home, work, and save for cosmetology school. She would finish the two year program debt free and with a license.

 

I understand her reasoning and think she is on the right track, but I struggle with it. This same child was pursued by her high school teachers for two years to join the debate team because she has the ability to state her case intelligently, logically, yet passionately all at the same time. She consistently brings world issues to our dinner table and loves to engage in literary analysis discussions. She just hates school. My dh and I have 3 degrees and 2 professional licenses between the two of us. My family will never understand my dd's decision and will be completely unsupportive and negative. Yes, it's a shift, but you do what's necessary when raising kids. At least, that's what I am telling myself this morning.

 

 

And kuddos to you for letting go and giving her the chance to do it! I was the bright sought after student. The guidance counselors never gave me an option. I had to take Ap classes. I had to take college prep. I had to do the college route. My parents insisted I go to college and get a 4 year degree. I never finished. I dropped out. I still don't have the degree and am now going back to get a degree that will pay some money and give me flexible work around the kids hours.

 

For our kids, we have decided that part of their high school will be some time of certificate program whether that involves a full blown associates in something or just a certificate/license. The goal is they will have some kind of fall back on job that will give them money. They may not love it but it would pay the bills, put food on the table, and help in hard times like we are having now.

 

We are telling them and preparing them to seek a program/certificate/license that will give them money NOW, have flexible hours that will work around their schedule no matter what it is, and in later years if the thing they love falls through like it has for us, they can fall back on it. It seems those jobs are things like nursing (or any other medical job), cosmetology, welding, auto mechanics, plumbers, electricians, accounting, etc. THey pay decently, have small education to repayment ratio, and can be extremely flexible. None of them may be the job of their choice but it can help pay for college, additional training and be done around a family. Or it may be perfect for them and that's where they stay.

 

All I want is for them to be educated and happy. I don't see a college degree necessarily equals that.

[TravelingChris]

y children not only want undergraduate degrees, but all three are planning graduate degrees. Oldest is three se esters fro graduating and se s quite serious about it. He has a very good GPA and I a hoping that by taking it easier, he will be able to keep it up. He then wants to work overseas for a year teaching English and then go on to get a PhD. DD1 wants to be a lawyer so law school for her after college. DD2 wants to be an engineer or scientist but she is seriously thinking about doing a 3-2 progra or even a undergrad in science and a grad in engineering. The third is only starting high school now so we will still see.

 

y kids are ore into the degrees than I a . Yes, both of us parents have advanced degrees but we are not the driving force. It is just so ething they observed and deter ined. They see what kind of lives we have and others have in the neighborhoods they live in and see what jobs they have. A very large percentage of our neighbors have not only college degrees but advanced degrees. THis is their environ ent and one they want to attain so eday too.

[justamouse]

It all depends on the kid. I have one that wants to be a chef, one an engineer, one a forensic scientist, another a vet. One is gifted in sports, and the baby? Who knows.

 

Dh and I are very successful without degrees. It was hard, but no harder than going to school and then having to forge a career after uni.

 

Whatever they want is the path we're directing them on.

[justamouse]

The type of paradigm shift you are talking about is a large, and for me, uncomfortable one. It is one we are faced with right now. My dd would like to attend cosmetology school after she graduates from high school. She does not care for a traditional learning environment. She is more of a hands-on learner and is very artistic. She has cut her friends' hair since they were freshmen and does hair and make up for three other girls before all dances. In the last 24 hours, she has come up with a plan that allows her to finish high school at home, work, and save for cosmetology school. She would finish the two year program debt free and with a license.

 

I understand her reasoning and think she is on the right track, but I struggle with it. This same child was pursued by her high school teachers for two years to join the debate team because she has the ability to state her case intelligently, logically, yet passionately all at the same time. She consistently brings world issues to our dinner table and loves to engage in literary analysis discussions. She just hates school. My dh and I have 3 degrees and 2 professional licenses between the two of us. My family will never understand my dd's decision and will be completely unsupportive and negative. Yes, it's a shift, but you do what's necessary when raising kids. At least, that's what I am telling myself this morning.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

My daughter, the one who wants to be a forensic scientist, is taking cosmetology now, share timing at the local tech school. No need for her to pay for it again when we pay for it now through our taxes. She loves hair, and fashion, AND science. Thankfully, cosmo is very heavy in chemistry. She wants her license so she can pay for school and have an income while she's a student. That went over like a lead balloon at first. But, like you, I've taken up her banner for her and am acting as the guard when the criticism starts from people who ask why she is so smart and 'just' cutting hair. Umm, I see her cosmo book. The chemistry in it, the microbiology, is hard. People who 'cut hair' are not stupid, rather I offer that they are much smarter than we give them credit for. The excellent, talented ones (and she expects to be, she wants to go to a Paul Mitchell school after this during the summer before college) are artists in their own right.

 

ETA: Cosmo, next to Engineering, is the hardest class at tech. I never knew that until my daughter went.

Edited August 20, 2010 by justamouse

[TMarie]

For our kids, we have decided that part of their high school will be some time of certificate program whether that involves a full blown associates in something or just a certificate/license. The goal is they will have some kind of fall back on job that will give them money.

 

This was our idea also. Problem is that now the oldest is in High School, she has no idea what she wants to do.

 

We tell the kids we will help pay for their first degree in a field that will earn a paycheck. Hopefully they will also have a passion for it! I don't care if it's tech college or a Bachelors.

[cathmom]

Not only do I want (expect) them to get 4 year degrees, I want them to get their Masters. I would really love for my son to get his Phd.

 

"their" Masters?? "his" phD??

 

 

For our kids, we have decided that part of their high school will be some time of certificate program whether that involves a full blown associates in something or just a certificate/license. The goal is they will have some kind of fall back on job that will give them money. They may not love it but it would pay the bills, put food on the table, and help in hard times like we are having now.

 

 

 

This is what my son who is currently in college says.

 

I'm open to many different paths. The cost of college is just so astronomical now, and the idea that all will get college degrees is unrealistic. I think there will be a societal correction in the near future.

[Maverick_Mom]

 

I'm open to many different paths. The cost of college is just so astronomical now, and the idea that all will get college degrees is unrealistic. I think there will be a societal correction in the near future.

 

:iagree:

[Maverick_Mom]

My children will earn high school diplomas, and that is where my obligation as a parent to educate my children ends. I come from a family of white collar workers. College is a luxury, not a necessity. And college is an adult choice to choose for him/herself.

 

Dd18 just wants to complete her "stupid" high school diploma and continue working at her job where she hopes to move up from Shift Manager to Manager. She knows what she wants and is happy. I can't think of anything better.

 

What she said.

[Gwenhwyfar]

My children will earn high school diplomas, and that is where my obligation as a parent to educate my children ends. I come from a family of white collar workers. College is a luxury, not a necessity. And college is an adult choice to choose for him/herself.

 

Dd18 just wants to complete her "stupid" high school diploma and continue working at her job where she hopes to move up from Shift Manager to Manager. She knows what she wants and is happy. I can't think of anything better.

 

Same. (except most of my family members are blue rather than white)

 

I don't "want" college/university for our kids any more than I "want" them to marry specific people or have a specific number of children or live in a specific town. In other words, it's not MY choice to make.

 

If your daughter wants to manage a store/restaurant/whatever - good for her! I hope she's happy & successful in her chosen line of work. :D (or in whatever she does, if she changes her mind)

 

Someone mentioned hairdressing - that's a career that dd13 has considered, and I find it really weird when people put it down... you know, people who get their hair cut/colored/styled by a *gasp* HAIRDRESSER. ;)

[Donna A.]

Same. (except most of my family members are blue rather than white)

 

I don't "want" college/university for our kids any more than I "want" them to marry specific people or have a specific number of children or live in a specific town. In other words, it's not MY choice to make.

 

If your daughter wants to manage a store/restaurant/whatever - good for her! I hope she's happy & successful in her chosen line of work. :D (or in whatever she does, if she changes her mind)

 

Someone mentioned hairdressing - that's a career that dd13 has considered, and I find it really weird when people put it down... you know, people who get their hair cut/colored/styled by a *gasp* HAIRDRESSER. ;)

 

I *love* my hairdresser. She has her degree in accounting and worked as an accountant for several years, but what she loves - and always loved - to do is hair. She quit accounting to do what she loves... and I'm very thankful she did. :001_smile:

[Lolly]

You know what, I really don't know what my kids are going to do.

 

Dd17 is a senior this year. She wants to be a make-up artist. Until a few months ago, she had decided that for her any college after high school would be useless. She was just going to get out there and start working. Fortunately, she has met some make-up artists online. They have somehow managed to shape her path a bit more. Now, she plans to do two years at the community college and then two years at a 4 yr school to get a business degree with an art minor.

 

Dd15a is dyslexic. She has always wanted to teach K. I do not know if she will academically be able to manage a 4 yr degree. If she does, it will most likely take far more than 4 years and cost a tremendous amount of $. I have suggested to her that she may want to consider a 2 yr degree that allows her to get a daycare license. Then, with the money saved for her college expenses (which is considerable), she could open her own daycare. (Maybe after a few years of working in one. She would have the potential to make more money than she would teaching K.

 

Dd15b really doesn't know what she wants to do. At the moment, it would deal with photography. So, I don't know. I can actually see her teaming up with dd17 and doing something spectacular!

 

Ds13, who knows.:D

[Corraleno]

The type of paradigm shift you are talking about is a large, and for me, uncomfortable one. It is one we are faced with right now. My dd would like to attend cosmetology school after she graduates from high school. She does not care for a traditional learning environment. She is more of a hands-on learner and is very artistic. She has cut her friends' hair since they were freshmen and does hair and make up for three other girls before all dances. In the last 24 hours, she has come up with a plan that allows her to finish high school at home, work, and save for cosmetology school. She would finish the two year program debt free and with a license.

 

I understand her reasoning and think she is on the right track, but I struggle with it. This same child was pursued by her high school teachers for two years to join the debate team because she has the ability to state her case intelligently, logically, yet passionately all at the same time. She consistently brings world issues to our dinner table and loves to engage in literary analysis discussions. She just hates school. My dh and I have 3 degrees and 2 professional licenses between the two of us. My family will never understand my dd's decision and will be completely unsupportive and negative. Yes, it's a shift, but you do what's necessary when raising kids. At least, that's what I am telling myself this morning.

Your DD sounds a lot like the daughter of a friend of mine; she's very bright but hated "school" and went straight to cosmetology school after HS. She had her hairdressing license at 20 and worked for a year in a salon at the mall. At 21 she rented a chair in a salon across town and took almost all of her clients with her (because she's very good at what she does, and she's a genius with haircolor). At 22 she and a friend, with a loan from the friend's dad, rented a little hole-in-the-wall and started their own salon. At 24 she and her friend paid the dad back and moved into a bigger, fancier building in a better part of town. She's 26 now — a financially successful business owner who can set her own hours, loves what she does, and is looking to buy a house. Most of her friends with 4 yr Humanities degrees are waitressing or working in low-paying office jobs, and are either living with parents or with multiple roommates in messy apartments. Her mom (my friend) is a college professor who doesn't make much more money than her daughter, works much longer hours, and doesn't enjoy her job nearly as much!

 

I think one reason this girl has such a loyal clientele is that, besides being the best colorist around, she is really smart and interesting and well-read — if I'm going to be sitting there for 2 hours getting my hair colored, it's nice to be able to talk about something besides Brangelina and American Idol, KWIM?

 

Jackie

[ma23peas]

But, it is a major paragigm shift in my thinking and I wanted to see if anyone else is considering anything like this while classically educating? How much value do you see in a 4 year degree in this day and age, when we are training our children through homeschooling to be autodictacts :).

 

 

I only want to encourage you, from your curricula list it looks like you might be a faith filled person....I had to give up my children (to God) a long time ago....I trust Him much more than I trust myself...while I am educating them with the intent of attending a 4 year university, I will not be disappointed if God has a different plan for them...every path I've taken has not really been my own, but a uniquely guided (through circumstance, happenstance, little miracles) one that has brought me immense blessings and joy...I don't second guess the path that He has planned for them..what I do try is to help them recognize those nudgings..and let go of any anxieties I may have....hth!

 

Tara

[Miss Marple]

I think one reason this girl has such a loyal clientele is that, besides being the best colorist around, she is really smart and interesting and well-read — if I'm going to be sitting there for 2 hours getting my hair colored, it's nice to be able to talk about something besides Brangelina and American Idol, KWIM?

 

Sorry - this is totally off topic, but your comment was timely. My son mentioned just about the same thing the other day. Several months ago we began going to a new salon. My 2nd son had a young stylist who was interesting, talkative (not stupidly), and engaged him in the conversation (really cute helped, too). He went back a few days ago and she remembered him, asked him pointed questions about his summer. They had spoken of his plans in the first encounter. She remembered him! He was so impressed...he did say she didn't know her geography well because she asked if he had seen the Eiffel Tower when he was in Italy :D

[Night Elf]

She wants to be a make-up artist. Until a few months ago, she had decided that for her any college after high school would be useless. She was just going to get out there and start working.

 

My dd18 received a phone call a few days ago from a really good hair salon in the outdoor mall she works in. She works in a small restaurant as a shift manager and absolutely loves her job. Apparently the owner of the hair salon has observed my dd working and has met her when she had her hair done at the salon. So he calls her last week and offers her a full-time retail manager/make-up artist position. They would train her completely. She was stunned and I think she's still thinking about the offer. It's a very different career path than what she had already decided to pursue within her current position. I always thought one had to go to school to be a make-up artist but apparently not. Not that I think your dd shouldn't pursue an Associates, just that I was surprised by the job offer as much as my dd18. :tongue_smilie:

[Tree House Academy]

It will really depend. I want my children to attend college. However, if their passion lies somewhere else and they are really good at what they are passionate about (like farming or music), then I would not be inclined to push so hard. It is not like age 18 is the only chance one has to go to college. My MIL went back at 40 and got her degree. Dh was 28 when he graduated with his engineering degree. I was 22 when I graduated and I am now a homemaker and homeschooling mom (not using my degree at all unless teaching English to kids falls under that category and it somewhat would, I think). Dh has become a successful Engineer who moved up and up and is now in management.

 

So yes, and no. I guess. Time and prayerful consideration of each child will tell.

[CAMom]

I have a senior, a freshman and a kindergartner.:)

 

I had to learn a long time ago that I can't pursue my own dreams for my kids. I need to support them in pursuing their own dreams. I consider my job to help them keep all of the options open until they start to hone in on what they really want.

 

I need to prepare them to live a life they want to live. Not a life I want them to live.:)