Twaddle books

[crazyforlatin]

DD just turned 5, is an advanced reader (4th grade level), was reading books on the Good Books list, but I borrowed lots of Magic Tree House books and she is now only reading these at every spare moment (which helps me when I have to cook). Are twaddle books fine if the child is young and the reading level is above grade level? I think Magic Tree House books are about 2nd grade level, maybe higher? I was planning to borrow a lot of Boxcar Children (twaddle?) books. Are there any benefits for DD to read these books? Will it improve her comprehension or reading ability?

 

ETA: I just read that the first 19 Boxcar Children books by Gertrude Warner are on the list of 1000 Good Book Lists.

Edited June 28, 2010 by crazyforlatin

[Momling]

Books are books. I think people take 'grade level' on books unnecessarily seriously. If your child is enjoying them and learning something from then, then it really shouldn't make any difference whether they're at a pre-school level or a high school level. I still enjoy (and get something out of) reading children's books and I've had five years of graduate school.

[plain jane]

I think the benefit is that they learn to love reading. Sure, they may be twaddle, but if it sparks in them a desire to read then by all means, I am all for them. Not all books have to be hard and challenging (although certainly these types of books have their place).

 

And yes, books that are on an easier reading level than your child is capable of will help them with fluency and speed.

[laundrycrisis]

This may not help you decide, but for me, a book's reading level is not part of what I consider when I decide whether or not it's "twaddle". I have read our kids some (I thought) really good books that were probably grade 1 or 2 level reading, but they were still good books. I have read some higher level and adult level books that I thought were really :toetap05:. I enjoy reading books (for myself) that are written for as young as fourth graders - when they are well-written, I enjoy them and the reading level doesn't matter. I would not want to limit myself to books only at that reading level, all the time, but having some easier books in the mix of what I read can be enjoyable.

[crazyforlatin]

Books are books. I think people take 'grade level' on books unnecessarily seriously. If your child is enjoying them and learning something from then, then it really shouldn't make any difference whether they're at a pre-school level or a high school level. I still enjoy (and get something out of) reading children's books and I've had five years of graduate school.

 

I agree with you about children's books. I've loved reading them to DD. I'm not so worried about grade level as long as she enjoys the books - it's the twaddle books that most classical homeschoolers say to avoid. I'm worried that these kinds of books may cause her to resist better books like Chronicles of Narnia, which she was relishing until I borrowed Magic Tree House books. I remember SWB seems to be against twaddle books (all?) for children even if those books get them reading.

[crazyforlatin]

This may not help you decide, but for me, a book's reading level is not part of what I consider when I decide whether or not it's "twaddle". I have read our kids some (I thought) really good books that were probably grade 1 or 2 level reading, but they were still good books. I have read some higher level and adult level books that I thought were really :toetap05:. I enjoy reading books (for myself) that are written for as young as fourth graders - when they are well-written, I enjoy them and the reading level doesn't matter. I would not want to limit myself to books only at that reading level, all the time, but having some easier books in the mix of what I read can be enjoyable.

 

I completely agree with you. An advanced reader should also read books at her own level and there are so many excellent books for 5-year old children. But do you all think it's fine to read Magic Tree House books even though most people consider it twaddle? If I had a teenage daughter only reading fluffy romantic novels, I don't think I would be comforted knowing at least she is reading, but it seems that for a 5-year old child that same argument may not apply because I want her to love reading and to read well, right?

 

I just remember that SOTW activity guide recommends at least two of these MTH books, so maybe it's not as much twaddle as I had concluded.

[Guest]

SWB may have said that in theory, but if you read her old "day in the Bauer homeschool" entries she talks about her kids bringing Superman comics to the table. No one, not any one, reads classics and nothing but classics their whole life long.

 

On the other hand, I don't think good comics or the Magic Treehouse books qualify as what she meant by true twaddle. The Magic Treehouse books provide great imaginative ways to travel to other times and places, with some amount of factual information interwoven in the plot. The focus is on helping others, learning to confront fears, other things that to my mind set these books apart from truly junk books like the Sweet Valley High series, which I think was one of the series singled out in the WTM as an example of twaddle.

 

Young children may read above their age/grade level, but they are also still developing visually and need lots of easy reading to build their reading stamina. This is the age of the short-chapter series book for a developmental reason, no matter how advanced the child. It's perfect for them to go back and forth between higher level, more literary books that challenge their thinking and build vocabulary on one hand, and comfort books that they race through on the other. Each type of reading provides a different benefit.

[plain jane]

I agree with you about children's books. I've loved reading them to DD. I'm not so worried about grade level as long as she enjoys the books - it's the twaddle books that most classical homeschoolers say to avoid. I'm worried that these kinds of books may cause her to resist better books like Chronicles of Narnia, which she was relishing until I borrowed Magic Tree House books. I remember SWB seems to be against twaddle books (all?) for children even if those books get them reading.

 

Is it SWB who is against twaddle books or CM? I don't remember reading in the WTM where she says not to have your child read them, but I'll readily admit I don't have the book memorized. :)

 

I do know she recommends limiting TV/video time to help produce readers but I don't remember her being against twaddle. Even if it's in there, the book is only a guide and it's only SWB's advice and opinion. :)

 

I wouldn't worry too much about your child reading Magic Tree House. It may not be the best literature out there, but she could certainly do worse. I'd make sure you have plenty of other good literature around the house and she'll come back to those. Mine went from reading Magic Tree House one week to The Hobbit the next.

[littlebug42]

My children read a mixture of both and I have no problem with it. After all, I don't always read books with great literary value. Sometimes I want brain candy and I see no problem with my children getting it. They alternate between literature and Peanuts comics some days but my oldest dd chooses good stuff as well.

[Snowfall]

The benefit to reading these books is that she will enjoy them. Does everything have to have some sort of measurable educational benefit? ;)

[crazyforlatin]

Thanks so much everyone for your input. I bothered DH so much with this question today that he reminded me I had the hive to "bother" and now I'm feeling so much better. Thank you!!!

[Amber in AUS]

Glad your feeling better about it. I try to remember that like everything there is a balance as long as the balance is on the healthy (non twaddle) side i am a happy Mum.

[mlktwins]

My boys are 5 today and one is reading at quite an advanced level. We love the Magic Tree House books here (along with the research guides that go with them). They are great for their little imaginations. We are also reading the children's books in Vol 1 of FIAR at the moment. They pick up some books at the library that I don't consider worthy (nothing really wrong with them -- just silly) and we read them once and return them.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

TWTM was a collaboration. My mother feels very strongly about "twaddle" books.

 

My nine-year-old is currently reading the entire Dragon Academy series.

;)

 

SWB

[Violet Crown]

My nine-year-old is currently reading the entire Dragon Academy series.

;)

 

SWB

 

Yeah! Twaddle is badly underrated. There's "no author's name because it was ground out by a hack as a Disney tie-in" twaddle, and there's luscious twaddle. I spent much of my time in grad school wallowing in 18th-century fluffy gothic twaddle.:lol:

[iquilt]

I wouldn't consider Magic Tree House series to be twaddle - they are perfect for ages 5-9 with new readers going on adventures, learning about new times and places and sparking interest with the research guides. I don't know about y'all, I am not currently reading anything close to "classic" or "great" while sitting poolside this summer!

[radiobrain]

Can I just say that I HATE the word "Twaddle".:tongue_smilie:

 

There is something about that word that makes me cringe, and feel like I might throw up a little bit.

[Rivka]

The benefit to reading these books is that she will enjoy them. Does everything have to have some sort of measurable educational benefit? ;)

 

:iagree: One of the major reasons why my daughter wants to learn to read is so she can read the awful books that I refuse to read aloud. I have a longstanding rule that I won't read anything based on a movie or TV show, not because I think she needs to remain pure but because the plots and writing are just so terrible that I can't stand them. But if she can read them? She's welcome to go crazy.

[Soror]

:iagree: One of the major reasons why my daughter wants to learn to read is so she can read the awful books that I refuse to read aloud. I have a longstanding rule that I won't read anything based on a movie or TV show, not because I think she needs to remain pure but because the plots and writing are just so terrible that I can't stand them. But if she can read them? She's welcome to go crazy.

We try to have balance in the house. My son cannot read yet so I do allow him to pick out some twaddle books- although I do have a limit on what I will read. For example the Disney Barbie mermaid book they picked out was heavily abridged as I was reading it and I refused to read anymore of the same kind. However, I do read him Magic Tree House and Narnia is on the list of things to read for this year.

[Aoife]

Ok while I agree that there are definitely books that are perfect for the category of "twaddle" ( think twilight series ) If a book makes a child who previously HATED and REFUSED to read begin to like it and gasp even enjoy it then it is worth it's weight in gold. As a step mam to two girls who absolutely HATE to read I am very appreciative that my 9yo is beginning to enjoy it because of books like my weird school and is now more willing to bridge out and even excited about reading the BFG on our trip to Cincinnati next week! My 12yo still goes back and forth but she is more burnt by PS and reading. Her mom let her read the twilight series so she constantly wants something like that with love, teen drama and brooding. :tongue_smilie: Don't get me started on just how inappropriate I think it is to let a 12yo girl read a series like that :lol:

[Aoife]

TWTM was a collaboration. My mother feels very strongly about "twaddle" books.

 

My nine-year-old is currently reading the entire Dragon Academy series.

;)

 

SWB

 

My grandma is like your mom :tongue_smilie: growing up she took it upon herself to make us read as many classics as we could cram into our summers. Not that I would have admitted it back then but this was one of the greatest gifts anyone has given to me. I am reliving a bit right now as my 12yo is reading through little women and actually retaining it!

[Dmmetler]

My 5 yr old went through a Magic Treehouse phase, where she read #1 to infinity, it seemed. What I'm noticing, though, as I'm bringing in materials for our first history cycle, how much she picked up-so she'll go through the Usborne book of World History and comment on things that happened in the Magic Treehouse books and how that item or place was used in the story.

 

 

But, what I also noticed is that after she'd read Magic Treehouse, she moved on into things that were more in depth, so she went from Magic Treehouse 1 to infinity to Oz and Alice in Wonderland. I think those familiar, formulaic books gave her the confidence she needed to handle longer texts, even though she's been reading at a level above Magic Treehouse for short texts for quite awhile.

 

 

The bottom line around here is that, while I try to make sure she has LOTS of good, high quality books to read, and I make sure what we read to her is good literature, she seems to learn quite a bit from stuff that's a little "twaddly" too.

[robsiew]

The working definition I use for twaddle has more to do with content than reading level. Especially at a young age... there is plenty of time to read the higher reading level books. There are SO many excellent picture books and a lot of them are actually written at a 3-4th grade reading level.

 

I actually don't consider the MTH books "twaddle". Not that they are excellent literature, but I think they serve an important purpose as a bridge for a lot of beginning readers into the land of chapter books. My 6 y/o is there right now. He will read the MTH on his own, but he also listens to classical literature such as Robin Hood (our current read aloud story). Reading the MTH doesn't really affect his ability to listen to and enjoy Robin Hood.

 

I pretty much let my kids read what they want on their own reading time and control only their read-alouds and their independent school reading.... that being said, I drew the line at Junie B. Jones with my then 7 y/o.... that was because she was starting to emulate that snotty little girl though, not because of the reading level. :001_huh: Now... that's twaddle IMO!

[Irishmommy]

Well, I've read many a "twaddle" books in my day. (For the record, I too HATE that word) I now love the classics. I think I started loving reading in third grade when reading almost every Judy Blume book I could get my hands on. Also, I have read many modern books in which the plot might seem like twaddle, but when read for the style, they are extraordinary. One such book that comes to mind is WHITE OLEANDER. The imagery in that novel is wonderful. Another favorite of mine is LIKE WATER FOR CHOCOLATE.

 

Anyway, my two cents is that anything that fosters a love of reading is vauluable.

[Alessandra]

The benefit to reading these books is that she will enjoy them. Does everything have to have some sort of measurable educational benefit? ;)

:iagree:

[MaMa2005]

DS, who just turned 5, has read Magic Tree House Books 1-29 (I put a stop at 29 - time to move on). It has ignited in him a love of reading as well as a strong interest in King Arthur. My DH is a huge King Arthur fan and it has allowed him to have some awesome conversation with DS.

 

I have a BS in Education with a minor in reading and a MS in reading and SPED. Though I have been out of school for 25+ years, I can still remember my professors stressing the importance of just having children read. The more they read, the better readers they become and thus, it will lead them to the classic literature, especially if the parents are a guide.

[PeterPan]

You're being a little too freaky about this. There is twaddle, and frankly the MTH *aren't* as bad as it gets, lol. There's twaddle, and then there's potato chip reading (ok in moderation). Let him enjoy the MTH books. For several years my dd read them, alternating them with Swiss Family Robinson and all sorts of "better" stuff. It's not going to hurt him, and it just means he likes fantasy. My dd LOVED Boxcar too. She would act out the scenes in her room, with very elaborate set-ups. Books like that fuel their imaginations, so I would just let them enjoy. Keep feeding him stuff, some good, some potato-chippy, and it will all work out. :)

[PeterPan]

The nice thing about grade-leveled reading lists like in WTM and the VP catalog is that you can TELL if you're progressing forward or if their reading has gotten out of balance. I've often thought to myself that it's not just a strong START but a strong FINISH, the endurance of the race, not resting our our laurels with a good beginning but continuing to put good stuff in front of them each and every year.

[Heather in WI]

I treat twaddle like junk food here.

 

This is what we do. We even call them junk books. They're fun and light, but they're brain candy. Fine in moderation, but we don't make a steady diet out of them. Each boy gets to pick out one junk book per week from the library -- usually a Star Wars book. :)

[Penelope]

MTH are twaddle IMO. However, my son loved them, and he actually learned quite a bit from them. We'd get to something in history and he'd have an idea about it already from MTH.

[4besitos]

My children enjoy MTH...there is just enough science and/or history to spark their curiosity.

[nmoira]

DD the Elder enjoyed MTH way back when, and she recently went through much of the series again en Español. It's a great foreign language vocabulary builder.

[golfcartmama]

I think MTH isn't high literature, but for fun free reading I have no problem sparking the desire to read as long as the kids are still getting quality books too. DS wants to read Percy Jackson too, but I want him to be able to read on his own and his reading isn't there yet.

 

And...throw the tomatos now...while Twilight is twaddle by definition, I certainly agree, I have read it and enjoyed the 'candy'! :D

[nmoira]

 

And...throw the tomatos now...while Twilight is twaddle by definition, I certainly agree, I have read it and enjoyed the 'candy'! :D

While Twilight isn't my thing, I very much doubt that there are many -- even here ;) -- who only read classics or philosophy, only indulge in high cultural events, and only go to the cinema and shun all else. They key is balance.

[JennyD]

My 5yo has almost finished reading the entire Boxcar Children series (all 120+ of them) and it has been like his own personal unit study curriculum. He has gone down innumerable rabbit trails with this series, constantly asking for more library books about this or that subject, all related to whichever Boxcar Children book he happens to be reading at the moment. Those books have been a terrific educational experience for him; I'm only sad that it's coming to an end!

[crazyforlatin]

My 5yo has almost finished reading the entire Boxcar Children series (all 120+ of them) and it has been like his own personal unit study curriculum. He has gone down innumerable rabbit trails with this series, constantly asking for more library books about this or that subject, all related to whichever Boxcar Children book he happens to be reading at the moment. Those books have been a terrific educational experience for him; I'm only sad that it's coming to an end!

 

Wow! I don't think my local library has that many. After all my worries over the Magic Tree House books, DD has picked up so many facts from them; I should have been focusing on that rather than freaking over "twaddle" books :tongue_smilie:.

[JennyD]

Wow! I don't think my local library has that many. .

 

We're in NYC, so although our local branch library only has a handful, I can put anything in the entire city system on hold through the library website. The library system here is a truly amazing resource, for sure.

[PeterPan]

... I should have been focusing on that rather than freaking over "twaddle" books :tongue_smilie:.

 

That's right! You have to view kids in the composite, not just looking at one thing. For all you know, he'll read LoTR after this. Kids are funny like that. He's just found a genre he really likes. :)

 

I see in your sig you're trying a lot of things. Just a word to the wise or my own hindsite, I wish I had bought less curriculum when dd was little and SAVED $$, putting it aside for when she was older. As you approach 6th, 7th, you start seeing these really expensive ($300-400 each!) online classes you want to do. It gets much more expensive as time goes on. So for what it's worth, there you go.