Is there a not boring U.S. history book that is fundamentally accurate?

[RoughCollie]

I don't want to read a U.S. history book that is heavily politically skewed, revisionist, or a textbook. I just want the truth.

 

Is that possible? Every review I read on Amazon has its detractors and protractors? Okay, not protractors, but you know what I mean. Right?

 

I don't like history as a subject all that much. That's why I don't want a dull, boring textbook.

 

Thanks,

RC

Edited May 17, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Orthodox6]

In no way am I being flippant with my answer. Yours is an excellent question for any topic within history.

 

So. . . . .

 

Whose truth do you want ?

 

Glance at perhaps any history-related thread on these boards, and you will find at least one person (usually more) pointing out that all history is written to reflect or to promote (and this is not always the same thing) the viewpoint(s) of the author. The only non-partisan presentation of history that I can think of is a time line listing events. Yet even a time line can be biased, according to what events it includes or excludes.

 

Not the answer you want, I know. (truly sorry !) Just the only honest one I can provide.

[Aunty Social]

Well, I haven't read all the history books out there :D, but my gut answer is no. Every book is written by an author, and every author will have some bias - as much as some may try not to. Your best bet is to get 2 or 3 from different authors/different countries - an American, European, and Asian for instance and then read them concurrently so that you can discuss the different viewpoints and get a more rounded view. More work, but very interesting.

[TravelingChris]

I think America The Last Best Hope is a pretty even handed set.

[JustGin]

I think America The Last Best Hope is a pretty even handed set.

 

:iagree: My oldest dd (14) is using this and we think it's excellent. It's has a narrative tone, so it's not at all boring and it's available as an audio book.

[elegantlion]

For my own purposes, I've been looking at these two books for comparsion.

 

Johnson's "A History of the American People" , which I've heard is more conservative.

 

and Zinn's "A People's History of the United States", which is more liberal.

[kalanamak]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Betsy Maestro books? I don't believe I've ever heard them mentioned here.

[RoughCollie]

Whose truth do you want ?

 

That's what I am worried about. I just want the plain, unvarnished truth, untainted by bias as much as possible.

 

My aim is to understand how we got from colonization to the present day. I am tired of reading political articles which throw history into the mix, and of having no idea whether these people are stating facts or bending them to fit their agenda.

Edited May 15, 2010 by RoughCollie

[kalanamak]

For my own purposes, I've been looking at these two books for comparsion.

 

Johnson's "A History of the American People" , which I've heard is more conservative.

 

and Zinn's "A People's History of the United States", which is more liberal.

 

Okay, politics and leanings aside, after reading around in the surprise me area of Amazon, Zinn is a better writer. I'm still recovering from the opening paragraph of Johnson's, which included the question "Has [the United States] expiated its organic sins?" I don't know, but I may toss up my wheat and corn tortilla with blackbeans, fat free yogurt, cheddar, and pico de gallo.

[EmilyK]

Do you mean the Betsy Maestro picture-type books? We've read some of them and liked them but seems to be they were at a lower level than the books you mention.

[kalanamak]

Do you mean the Betsy Maestro picture-type books? We've read some of them and liked them but seems to be they were at a lower level than the books you mention.

 

Yes, my son is 7, and I am shamelessly jumping on the coattails of a history thread.

[Nestof3]

I am one who thinks that the truth is in many ways "in the eye of the beholder."

 

So, I read books from different viewpoints -- lots of different books along with a spine (or two).

 

I was reading a little bit of Joy Hakim's history of US today, and though I am quite the libertarian in my political views, and she is certainly not, I respect her writing because she speaks from both sides on many occasions. Yes, she is more liberal than I (politically), but in reading the chapter about whites vs Native Americans, I could see that she was being truthful about humankind -- not taking sides.

 

I will not use providential history books as I believe they are tilted way too far in favor of seeing the best in all of the historical Christians. God's people have always had a fallen nature (look at David), and they always will. I don't want sugar-coated history.

 

We also use SOTW because of it's focus on world history.

Edited May 16, 2010 by nestof3

[Nestof3]

Betsy Maestro books are great for the younger crowd. We are reading some now.

 

I've always enjoyed Genevieve Foster books too.

 

Yes, my son is 7, and I am shamelessly jumping on the coattails of a history thread.

[Nestof3]

You know, I thought I'd also mention this. Critical Thinking Press has some great books about how to judge a book, article, primary source document. I found these very useful for discussions with my older ones.

 

Also, part of the fun of reading about history is looking at it from different sides and discussing it. I often ask the boys, "How would you feel if that happened to you?" "Do you think that was the right thing to do?"

[jewellsmommy]

That's what I am worried about. I just want the plain, unvarnished truth, untainted by bias as much as possible.

 

My aim is to understand how we got from colonization to the present day. I am tired of reading political articles which throw history into the mix, and of having no idea whether these people are stating facts or bending them to fit their agenda.

 

 

Unfortunately, the point people are trying to make is that there is no such thing. Each author is writing the whole unvarnished truth, as far as they can tell. Yet, take that truth from 3 different authors and there will be differences. Not that any of them set out to deceive or skew. They tell it from what they truly believe to be the truth. The problem is that 'what they believe' part of the equation. You just have to find a good clear writing author whose version of the events seem to make the most sense. One whose writing does not bore you and yet imparts knowledge of the events. History is more then just x happened on this day. It is also Why did x happen and why that day. And which x's are pertinent information worth learning.

 

That being said, dd and I enjoy story of the world. We also add in a lot of other history teaching books by a multitude of authors. Using multiple authors may help you to feel that you are getting more then just one person's take on historical events. Or you can go sweet and simple with just SOTW or Mystery of History or Streams of civilization.

Edited May 16, 2010 by jewellsmommy
writing not righting, silly me

[emeraldjoy]

what about Joy Hakim's US history series?

I haven't got too far into the set yet (mainly I will look up specific stuff and read a chapter here and there), but what I have read I really love...the way she writes engages me. I like her history of science books and am more familiar with them.

Not sure about it being accurate in the same way you want.

Anyone else have anything to add about this set?

[jld]

If you and your husband disagree about something, who is right? Either one? Both? What if only your husband was allowed to tell his version of the story, and you never got a chance?

 

We're really lucky nowadays to hear more sides of the story than just the one officially accepted one, as in the past.

 

Reading as many different versions of history as possible is probably eye-opening, if you have time.

[EmilyK]

Yes, my son is 7, and I am shamelessly jumping on the coattails of a history thread.

 

Sorry if I sounded snippy -- I just thought maybe there were other Maestro books!

 

Part of the fun of history is all the different ways of looking at things, and what that reveals about the looker. I get that if you don't like history that seems like a pain, but to me it is like wanting one interpretation of a work of art or a poem. That said, I get that it would be good to know the main conventional events of history, and then maybe an even-handed discussion of different perspectives on events. Maybe the picture books are better! I would think there would be some politically moderate historians ( I certainly know some) but maybe they aren't drawn to write a survey.

[RoughCollie]

sorry, double post

Edited May 16, 2010 by RoughCollie

[asta]

The word everyone is looking for is Historiography. That is the study of how history is written. There are several books on the subject (most of which will put you to sleep), but are interesting in that they DO show you "both sides of the story" - simply because they are showing how different historians used their own biases to record events.

 

 

asta

[RoughCollie]

We read SOTW in HS already, so I don't want to use that. I can't say enough good things about those books and the associated activity books. Good heavens, my kids are in high school and the two that go to PS are still marveling over how much they learned from SOTW.

 

For me, though, do any of you know anything about A Patriot's History of the United States, by Larry Schweikart? I saw it at Borders a couple of months ago.

 

I did order The Federalist Papers, thinking that might help. Then someone suggested The Anti-Federalist Papers. Should I order that one, too?

 

How about The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Founding Fathers? It got good reviews on Amazon, anyway.

 

Now, with all these questions I have, I am wondering how I got to wondering about all this stuff. I don't like history! Yet here I go, trying to figure it out. This just feels weird. :confused:

 

Of course, what I find out, I will also teach to my kids.

 

I appreciate everyone's advice very much. I knew I'd find history lovers here.

 

RC

[Cedarmom]

definitely read some of The Anti-Federalist papers, to go along with the Federalist Papers. These are great primary sources. They also provide an example how people can all want the same thing and yet have differant views on how to get there. Teaching Company has a great lecture to accompany your readings.

 

Whichever book youdecide on, the more primary sourcesyou have the better.

[Spy Car]

There is a series called the Drama of American History written by the Colliers brothers, that are exceptionally even-handed and well written. I've only read two volumes of a multi volume set (one covering the conflict of Federalism and Anti-Federalism, and one on the run up to the Civil War) and both were outstanding.

 

The writing is engaging. The presentation of best-case arguments for both sides was impressive. I much prefer these to Joy Hakim, whose writing style I don't enjoy. To my mind these books show that you can have "objective" history books free of heavy bias. Top notch!

 

Bill

[Nestof3]

What I've read of these is very good.

 

There is a series called the Drama of American History written by the Colliers brothers, that are exceptionally even-handed and well written. I've only read two volumes of a multi volume set (one covering the conflict of Federalism and Anti-Federalism, and one on the run up to the Civil War) and both were outstanding.

 

The writing is engaging. The presentation of best-case arguments for both sides was impressive. I much prefer these to Joy Hakim, whose writing style I don't enjoy. To my mind these books show that you can have "objective" history books free of heavy bias. Top notch!

 

Bill

[RoughCollie]

Thank you so much.

 

I found some used copies of books in the Drama in American History series, along with the Anti-Federalist Papers on Amazon. This is a good way to spend the gift certificate I got for Mother's Day.

 

ETA: Oh my gosh! Our local library, which usually has very few of the books I want, has the Collier books!

Edited May 16, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Spy Car]

Here is a handy list Moira put together of all the books in the series.

 

 

Here's a list of the titles in the series:

 

 

• Clash of Cultures: Prehistory to 1638, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• The Paradox of Jamestown, 1585 to 1700, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• The French and Indian War, 1660 to 1763, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• The American Revolution, 1763 to 1783, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• Pilgrims and Puritans, 1620 to 1676, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• Creating the Constitution, 1787, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• Building a New Nation, 1789 to 1803, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• Andrew Jackson's America, 1821 to 1850, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• Hispanic America, Texas, and the Mexican War, 1835 to 1850, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• The Jeffersonian Republicans, 1800 to 1820, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• The Civil War, 1860 to 1866, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• Slavery and the Coming of the Civil War, 1831 to 1861, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• Reconstruction and the Rise of Jim Crow, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 1998.
  
• The Rise of Industry: 1860 to 1900, Marshall Cavendish (New York, NY), 1999.
  
• A Century of Immigration: 1820 to 1924, Marshall Cavendish/Benchmark Books (Tarrytown, NY), 1999.
  
• Indians, Cowboys, and Farmers, 1865 to 1910, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 2000.
  
• The United States Enters the World Stage: From Alaska through World War I, 1867 to 1919, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 2000.
  
• Progressivism, the Great Depression, and the New Deal, 1901 to 1941, Benchmark/Cavendish (Tarrytown, NY), 2000.
  
• The Rise of the Cities, Cavendish/Benchmark (Tarrytown, NY), 2000.
  
• United States in World War II, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 2001.
  
• The Changing Face of American Society, 1945 to 2000, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 2001.
  
• The United States in the Cold War, Benchmark/Cavendish (Tarrytown, NY), 2002.
  
• The Middle Road: American Politics, 1945 to 2000, Benchmark Books (New York, NY), 2002.
  

 

[stripe]

I think America The Last Best Hope is a pretty even handed set.

I've never read it, but the title hardly seems unbiased. (What would one think of a book called "North Korea: The Last, Best Hope" ?)

[mrbmom77]

I'm a history major and one thing most of my professors tell us over and over is that there is no such thing as unbiased history. Historiography changes not only according to the historians' personal leanings but from generation to generation.

 

I've only been homeschooling a little over a year and am still figuring things out so right now we're using lots of Usborne and DK books as spines. My main goal is to incorporate as many primary sources as possible.

 

For your own education, I would say find primary sources - (letters, newspaper articles, minutes, etc.). Then read what others have to say about them. Keep in mind that the founding fathers and any other leaders have always been well aware that they were writing for posterity, so even personal letters may not be completely honest. Also, period literature is usually a good reflection of the times. The incorporation of literature with the history is one of the things I love about TWTM.

 

For American history, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers are an excellent place to start.

 

History is not an easy thing. Good luck to you!

[Spy Car]

I've never read it, but the title hardly seems unbiased. (What would one think of a book called "North Korea: The Last, Best Hope" ?)

 

It's by William Bennett, the guy who lost millions of dollars to his gambling habit AND wrote The Book of Virtues :D

 

Bill

[Nestof3]

It's by William Bennett, the guy who lost millions of dollars to his gambling habit AND wrote The Book of Virtues :D

 

Bill

 

:w00t:

[RoughCollie]

Here is a handy list Moira put together of all the books in the series.

 

Bill, you are a doll for posting this!

 

BTW, your PM box needs to be cleaned out. I tried to PM you and it was full. :001_smile:

[nmoira]

Here is a handy list Moira put together of all the books in the series.

They're can all be obtained at a reasonable price, save for The Rise of Industry. I'm compulsively checking for this one, waiting for my break. :tongue_smilie:

[HollyDay]

history is more than a date and what happened on that date. It is a matter of POV. The American Revolution was a great victory for America and helped set the stage for other revolutions throughout Europe. It was a major defeat for Britain. The texts would be written very differently by the different POV. When we were studying the vikings, we read books about the vikings from their POV that was, of course, very positive, think "great conquering hero" type. Now, when reading Beorne the Proud, which was written from the POV of an Irish girl enslaved by the Vikings, the Vikings were not so great. I do hear what you are saying about texts written by authors with an agenda and a political view they want to express.

[Spy Car]

Bill, you are a doll for posting this!

 

BTW, your PM box needs to be cleaned out. I tried to PM you and it was full. :001_smile:

 

The 50 PM limit is the bane of my existence :D

 

You have a window ;)

 

Bill

[angela in ohio]

For me, though, do any of you know anything about A Patriot's History of the United States, by Larry Schweikart? I saw it at Borders a couple of months ago.

 

How about The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Founding Fathers? It got good reviews on Amazon, anyway.

 

Now, with all these questions I have, I am wondering how I got to wondering about all this stuff. I don't like history! Yet here I go, trying to figure it out. This just feels weird. :confused:

 

Schweikart's book is excellent. He is politically and economically conservative, though. That's unbiased in my view point, but others will disagree. ;) The PIGs are also from a conservative view point.

[Caraway]

history is more than a date and what happened on that date.

 

 

I agree - but for those of us who are lost, understanding a date and what happened would be a really good starting place. :001_smile:

[PineFarmMom]

I think America The Last Best Hope is a pretty even handed set.

 

That is on my reading list next for history. Right now I'm very early into a Patriot's History of the US. It's like 817 pages of reading, and I'm about 20 pages in, so I don't have huge experience with it, but I like it so far. Others wouldn't!! :D He seems to take some of the liberal/pc slant that we're so bombarded with then counters it with facts that disprove some of the anti-American propaganda we hear these days.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Texas T

[stripe]

That is on my reading list next for history. Right now I'm very early into a Patriot's History of the US. It's like 817 pages of reading, and I'm about 20 pages in, so I don't have huge experience with it, but I like it so far. Others wouldn't!! :D He seems to take some of the liberal/pc slant that we're so bombarded with then counters it with facts that disprove some of the anti-American propaganda we hear these days.

But is this neutral? I am not questioning the material, but rather the idea that this is neutral. The names of these books alone indicates the perspective.

[EKS]

But is this neutral? I am not questioning the material, but rather the idea that this is neutral. The names of these books alone indicates the perspective.

 

:iagree:

 

I'd venture to guess that generally speaking "neutral" is whatever agrees with the reader's own perspective.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't want to read a U.S. history book that is heavily politically skewed, revisionist, or a textbook. I just want the truth.

 

Is that possible? Every review I read on Amazon has it's detractors and protractors? Okay, not protractors, but you know what I mean. Right?

 

I don't like history as a subject all that much. That's why I don't want a dull, boring textbook.

 

Thanks,

RC

 

I think that you often have a perspective of America, hegemon balanced on the backs of the oppressed peoples vs. America, love it or leave it.

 

The reality seems to me to be a great deal more nuanced than that. Slavery was an awful institution and I'm sobered that so many people I admire could have personally justified it or at least decided that they couldn't do anything about it. I'm incredibly proud of my abolitionist ancestors and the family that had father and three sons all fighting on the Federal side of the the Civil War (including one who was an officer of a Kansas colored regiment). But I also think that John Brown was more than a little demented and used his agenda to self-justify murder in the name of rebellion. But I also look at conditions in much of sub Saharan Africa and think that the decendants of slavery in the US are an example of what man meaning for evil being turned to good.

 

I personally like Daniel Boorstin. I think that he loves America and thinks that Americans of the past exhibited bravery, perseverance and creativity, while also realizing that they could be selfish people who were protecting their own interests, not those of a figurative national good.

 

I also think that you tend to get a better view of things by reading a history of an event, war or period or a biography than trying to find something that covers the whole swath from pre-Columbian to the present. David MacCullough and Stephen Ambrose have been some of our favorites. Jeff Shaara is also good, though more fictionalized. But he still treats the historical figures as three dimensional people, with good attributes as well as warts.

 

Sometimes you can learn a lot from a very specific book. DH is reading Battleship at War in part because it is very similar to his grandfather's wartime experience and in part because it is not too dissimilar to the US Navy today, even though it is 65 years in the past.

[Melissa in Australia]

:iagree:

 

I'd venture to guess that generally speaking "neutral" is whatever agrees with the reader's own perspective.

How true!

[stripe]

I'd venture to guess that generally speaking "neutral" is whatever agrees with the reader's own perspective.

The fact that several of the suggestions have, in fact, been so clearly NON-neutral suggests just how difficult the quest is....That's the unfortunate conundrum the OP is finding herself in -- and one I think others of us are also in. It's unfortunate to think one has to either "bunker down" in a perspective to read about history OR read a very boring book with a forced neutrality.

[Spy Car]

The fact that several of the suggestions have, in fact, been so clearly NON-neutral suggests just how difficult the quest is....That's the unfortunate conundrum the OP is finding herself in -- and one I think others of us are also in. It's unfortunate to think one has to either "bunker down" in a perspective to read about history OR read a very boring book with a forced neutrality.

 

The reason I recommend the Drama of American History, is because there is a 3rd Way, and this series is one that is neither polemical nor reduced to pablum.

 

I don't buy the premise (advanced by some) that there is no such thing as objective history. Every author certainly carries their own bias, but a good historian will make his or her best effort to correct for that bias in their work, and can be fair-minded in their presentation of history.

 

Where there are conflicts to describe (as there very often are in history texts) an author can either chose to become a partisan (and present essentially one side of the story) or they can attempt to present the positions of both sides as fairly as they are able.

 

The Collins brothers books, or at least the two I've read thus far, do a highly admirable job in being highly-interesting and well-written history, and they are also very fair-minded. For a person who wants history from a highly-

biased perspective these would not suit, but those who seek a balanced American history text that fits into an academic mainstream, and one that does a wonderful job presenting both sides of conflicts, this is something to consider as an introductory American History series.

 

Bill

[Nestof3]

I don't buy the premise (advanced by some) that there is no such thing as objective history. Every author certainly carries their own bias, but a good historian will make his or her best effort to correct for that bias in their work, and can be fair-minded in their presentation of history.

 

Where there are conflicts to describe (as there very often are in history texts) an author can either chose to become a partisan (and present essentially one side of the story) or they can attempt to present the positions of both sides as fairly as they are able.

 

l

 

This is the point I was trying to make. What actually happened (history) is experienced differently and viewed differently depending on the people. Each person's truth is from his or her own perspective. A historian - a person studying and writing about this -- has a choice to either choose sides, so to speak, or include many sides or voices. I too believe this is possible, but I don't see it very often.

[Guest]

This is the point I was trying to make. What actually happened (history) is experienced differently and viewed differently depending on the people. Each person's truth is from his or her own perspective. A historian - a person studying and writing about this -- has a choice to either choose sides, so to speak, or include many sides or voices. I too believe this is possible, but I don't see it very often.

 

Yes; it's possible to be more or less ideologically driven. However, there are no "pure" facts that are not subject to selection -- inevitably -- and point of view. Historians are dependent on existing evidence, which is always partial, and whose meaning shifts over time as other material is uncovered, writers create a larger context, or technological advances allow us access to previously unavailable materials. They are dependent upon current views of history and how historians make meaning. There are have been enormous shifts in historiography and historical context-making in the past twenty to thirty years.

 

It is also extremely eye-opening to read about the textbook writing and vetting process. Diane Ravitch's book The Language Police goes into the process in detail. You will never think of textbooks in the same way again.

 

Even history trade books by professionals are subject to other forces. All history writing is, in part, a response to what has been written previously and what kinds of interpretations are also current. All history also has to be shaped according to market forces. This is no small influence. The publishing industry is struggling, is dominated by a few giant companies, and is pressured to shape books to garner the greatest possible market. Again this is inevitable, not some evil plot that compromises intellectual thought hopelessly. But it does exist, and it does matter, and it does affect what kind of history we get and how we perceive it.

 

Again, I'm not saying that all history is a travesty of the truth, or that there is no such thing as accuracy. I'm saying that no single history can ever be "the truth," in that it can never distill a pure event within a totally neutral context.

[RoughCollie]

I am very thankful to all of your for your advice. I will look at everything and make my selections.

 

RC

[jg_puppy]

The Collins brothers books, or at least the two I've read thus far, do a highly admirable job in being highly-interesting and well-written history, and they are also very fair-minded. For a person who wants history from a highly-

biased perspective these would not suit, but those who seek a balanced American history text that fits into an academic mainstream, and one that does a wonderful job presenting both sides of conflicts, this is something to consider as an introductory American History series.

 

Bill

 

What ages are these books for? I will have a 5th grader next year.

 

Jan

[Doubleblessings]

:bigear:

[Spy Car]

What ages are these books for? I will have a 5th grader next year.

 

Jan

 

I would suppose it would be intended for an audience somewhere between 5th grade and 8th grade. It is not a "high school" text in terms of "depth".

 

However, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the two volumes I got from the library and very muc look forward to reading more. They are smartly written and very interesting. And if this was all a citizen kew about our history I suspect they would have a greater depth of knowledge that most Americans. An adult could certainly learn a great deal from the volumes I read. And it is the kind of approach that gets one thinking about the issues our fore-parents struggled with, after getting a comprehension of the perspective of different sides.

 

Really marvelous!

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Again, I'm not saying that all history is a travesty of the truth, or that there is no such thing as accuracy. I'm saying that no single history can ever be "the truth," in that it can never distill a pure event within a totally neutral context.

 

But it is not necessarily about being neutral. A historian, and in this case I mean the Colliers brother, can show that there was a dispute and then as fair-mindedly as possible say this was what the people in Group A believed, and this was the position of people in Group B. And then tell how things played out.

 

On occasion they might include a conclusion prefaced with the statement: "Today most historians believe", but those occasions are few, and there is plenty for a child to chew on in terms of whether the see things the way "most historians" do.

 

These are not indoctrinating materials to an extreme worldview, although at some point one but admit there is a bias to fair-minded scholarship. Not such a bad bias in my view.

 

This is very different than works that don't attempt to be fair-minded, or show both sides in a dispute fairly. No work is going to be perfect, but from what I've read thus far this series is exemplary in presenting American history as a highly interesting subject, and not pushing an author's ideological views. If one is seeking an American History series that isn't a worldview driven, this certainly is one due consideration.

 

I had seen no alternative to Joy Hakim, and that was not happiness making to me, as her writing style (and patronizing tone) are not to my taste. this one is, and highly so!

 

Bill

 

Bill