What is your opinion on HS groups that require a statement of faith

[shinyhappypeople]

I believe the Christ is my personal Savior, but because of my specific denomination, many Christians don't believe me. They often use words in their "statements of faith" that specifically exclude me. Classical Conversations is one of these. As such, I'm not particularly fond of statements of faith.

 

:iagree:

 

Groups will do what they do. They have that right and if they choose to exclude me and my kids up front it's disappointing (and yes, hurtful) but ultimately it's their loss ;-)

 

Obviously, this thread has hit a nerve with me. I have a hard time with groups labeling themselves "Christian" and then, right off the bat, doing something that appears not at all reflective of Christ. Yes, Jesus was hated and excluded by some people, but he didn't personally exclude anyone himself- even those he disagreed with (or vice versa).

[Ester Maria]

I don't see what's an issue, honestly. Any group, organization, has a right to pose their own rules onto their members, especially if they wish to seek exclusively like-minded individuals, i.e. if they have a very precise target members. Therefore, I would not join a group with a statement of (any) faith. (At the end of the day, it's their loss as my daughters are - if we won't play the "false modesty" game - intellectually superior to most of the adults I know and pretty much any homeschool group would profit more out of them than they would profit out of it :D, which is actually the main reason why we don't do co-op or homeschool groups. We tried, they hated it, we stopped. But IF they wanted it and IF I thought a group was good, we would join IF and ONLY IF it was an open-minded group which chooses its members on their intellectual qualities rather than the ideology they go with.)

[AuntPol]

My homeschool group requires a statement of faith. I don't really like the idea and would prefer to be in a group that doesn't require one. However, this group meets at my church and the families in it are all the ones that my kids socialize with from church activities, etc. It would be weird if we were to join another group and avoid this one. I don't find it exclusive because it's intentions are for being Christian support. I would like to have a second group that is focused around curriculum style or location, etc.

 

Now my husband is not Christian (considering it but not "there" yet). He did not sign the statement of faith. I signed it for me. He has come to events and stuff but we didn't have a statement of faith issue until he decided to teach a non-academic class in the co-op. We wrote the leaders and said he could not sign the statement as it would be lying. His class had nothing to do with religion and he promised that he would not include any teachings that went against the statment of faith. Also, he would have at least one other member who had signed in the classroom. They were fine with that. Most of the leaders know me and him well enough to know our character and know that if they excluded him, they would be setting him back on his path instead of forward.

 

 

However, I did not like the SOF for the Homeschool Football League here. It's name is Homeschool Football League. If they want Christians only then it should be Homeschool Christian Football League. I totally resent that the only homeschool football team requires a statement of faith. To top it off, the practices of the leader are anything but Christian in my opinion. We did it one year with me signing the statement and then decided never again. Really, I think one should be able to play football no matter what they believe and requiring a SOF there is a) going overboard b) is a waste of an opportunity to be true spiritual fruit. and c) We felt that the practices went against our morals and we'd be better off with the parks and rec team.

[laughing lioness]

The obligatory "other" is absent :-). But I totally support the right of a group to require a statement of faith; I don't necessarily need that in order to join a group. So I guess the top selection would be half true for me.

 

If I don't agree with the SOF, I can find another group or start my own.

 

:iagree:I've started a couple of groups and we've always had a statement of faith. People haven't been required to sign that to join, but they were required to sign a code of conduct and code of discpiline to join.

I've steered away from groups that require SoF. Not becasue I disagree with them but because I usually disagree with the legalism that attends those types of groups.

[Crissy]

I fully support a group's right to require a statement of faith, but I wouldn't sign one.

My faith is my own business and has no bearing on my children's ability to pay attention in a classroom setting, do their homework, or get the most out of a group field trip.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I support the right of groups to have a SOF and appreciate that it has helped me steer clear of groups that would not be a good fit. Most SOFs are specifically designed to keep out Catholic and Orthodox. They are so afraid that their children will be poisoned by associating with people like me. However, when my son did a library volunteer job paired with an evangelical Christian homeschooler, my son was berrated for not believing in a young Earth and was told he was going to hell. That really put his faith in a tail spin. Why can't we all get along?

 

I find it quite funny that many people support SOFs to prevent misunderstandings and keep things running smoothly. I have belonged to an inclusive group for 13 years. We have Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Muslim women, Hindu, atheist, agnostic - the whole gamut. We have moms who wear tank tops with spaghetti straps swapping tips with head-covering women. Everyone gets along. A Jewish family opened their home for Hanukkah to teach the rest of us about it. We had a great time. One of the Muslim families did an explanation of Ramadan for the rest of us. I learn so much and my children are not threatened in their faith.

 

I also belong to a Catholic homeschooling group that has been open to anyone. They do plan many things that would be of interest specifically to Catholics but most of the activities are of interest to anyone. We have had non-Catholics come on the Catholic field trips because they found it interesting.

[Halcyon]

 

It may not float some boats, but I think the sofs are doing their job if it's keeping people out that wouldn't sign them away. I dare say, that's the point.

 

It saddens me that any Christians would want to 'keep people out'. Grace and welcoming open arms are to me the hallmarks of a good Christian.

[DarlaS]

My kids (7 & 4) have been spoken to about God and religion by our neighbourhood kids on several occasions. None of these neighbours are even church-goers (though one goes to a Catholic school) so it's not like they're being taught to "spread the word" or anything like that... it just comes up. Now, perhaps this is more noticable because we don't use the same language about God in our home, and if we were also Christian it would just slip by unnoticed. But yes, the conversations do happen. However, this is a welcome thing from my perspective; I like talking about religious diversity with my kids.

 

The situations I was referring to were classroom settings--no real opportunity for kids to discuss amongst themselves I guess (unless that was the focus of the class...).

[erica471]

Another Catholic here. I don't currently belong to a HS group. But, I would not sign a SOF. I wouldn't have a problem with hs group having a mission statement or something like that. I do not homeschool for religious reasons, we homeschool for academic reasons. I would prefer to belong to a secular HS group that at a minimum respected other religions/didn't make it an issue. I see that my group of friends and co-workers are like that anyway so if would just be a reflection of my family's everyday life. I, myself wouldn't feel comfortable belonging to an evangelical HS group anyway so statements of faith might be a warning to me.

I did attend some "park days" when we first began considering homeschooling and there was no mention of religion/beliefs.

[tonya in sc]

has a board of directors, all of whom are Christian. I am a Christian. However, I want a group that is for home schoolers, not just "Christian" ones. Within the last couple of years, there have been some changes in our group. We now have a clearly spelled-out dress code that is very similar to that of public schools in our area. I have a few MINOR issues with it (non-human colored hair = a "who cares?" in my house). What I don't like is the supposed motive as defined by the board: "...promote godliness in our children..." Godliness according to whom? We don't require a SOF so who's to say all the members care about godliness at all? Don't get me wrong - most of the dress code matches our family standard for dress anyway. I just don't like that our group thinks it can determine proper looks for others. Just fyi, it also bans "gothic makeup and clothing, (and) any piercing except girls' earrings." I pointed out to a board member that the girls could wear the makeup of a $10 hooker and still be in dress code, but modest black pants and a black t-shirt could be considered gothic.

Sorry - rant over now.

t.

[Halcyon]

has a board of directors, all of whom are Christian. I am a Christian. However, I want a group that is for home schoolers, not just "Christian" ones. Within the last couple of years, there have been some changes in our group. We now have a clearly spelled-out dress code that is very similar to that of public schools in our area. I have a few MINOR issues with it (non-human colored hair = a "who cares?" in my house). What I don't like is the supposed motive as defined by the board: "...promote godliness in our children..." Godliness according to whom? We don't require a SOF so who's to say all the members care about godliness at all? Don't get me wrong - most of the dress code matches our family standard for dress anyway. I just don't like that our group thinks it can determine proper looks for others. Just fyi, it also bans "gothic makeup and clothing, (and) any piercing except girls' earrings." I pointed out to a board member that the girls could wear the makeup of a $10 hooker and still be in dress code, but modest black pants and a black t-shirt could be considered gothic.

Sorry - rant over now.

t.

 

Wow. Just WOW. :gnorsi:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

It saddens me that any Christians would want to 'keep people out'. Grace and welcoming open arms are to me the hallmarks of a good Christian.

 

:iagree::iagree:

Jesus welcomed everyone to the table.

[Parrothead]

I learn so much and my children are not threatened in their faith.

 

And I think that may be the reason for many SOF. People are threatened by things they do not understand or things that they have been taught erroneously about.

[MelanieM]

It saddens me that any Christians would want to 'keep people out'. Grace and welcoming open arms are to me the hallmarks of a good Christian.

 

I have to admit I've been surprised to learn that there are Christian groups who feel they are called to be exclusionary so that they're protected (?) from anyone that isn't the right brand of Christian. Is that considered to be Biblical? It doesn't fit with the Jesus I grew up with. (I'm genuinely curious, and would create a s/o thread to ask this but am a little nervous about such things after past experience.)

[Miss Sherry]

First let me state right up front that I am Christian, in my own way. My husband is Jewish. We are very open-minded people, and one reason we homeschool is to widen our children's perspective on the world: introduce them to new cultures, have them meet people of all ages and backgrounds and religions, study world history and the history of other cultures so as to cultivate a broader perspective on life, etc. I was a Cultural Anthropology major in college, and feel strongly that there is no one right path to God. ...........

 

I don't need a homeschool group for my children to be exposed to people from other cultures and different backgrounds. We have moved several times and my children have been exposed to people of various cultures and beliefs just in daily living. For example, one of my son's lifetime friends is Muslim and his parents are from Syria. One of my oldest daughters friends has one parent that is Vietnamese and the other is Chinese who was a Buddhist monk before he was married. She also has a friend whose family came here from Russia. These are all long time friends and my children did not meet any of them at a homeschool group.

We have enjoyed having Christian homeschool groups over the years and it has not stopped us in the least from meeting other people outside of that group. Some homeschool groups I have liked more than others. I don't think there is such a thing as a homeschool group that can be all things to all people.But I don't care. Just find a group that can be enough of what you need, if you like it join, if not find something else. But I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you want to find a group that can meet ALL of your needs. You need to have other ways to meet people if it is your goal to meet a lot of different kinds of people. For one thing, just the fact that it is a HOMESCHOOL group has limited it to people that homeschool.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[chaik76]

I won't join a group like this, even though I am a Christian. First, many of the SOFs do not cover what I believe and some are against what I believe.

 

Unfortunately, most inclusive groups aren't truly inclusive, and most secular groups are totally secular and those with a faith aren't welcome. So...we belong to none right now.

 

I do believe that a homeschool group has and should have the right to have a SOF. It just bothers me that people are so very interested in keeping themselves within a tight framework where they are not exposed to other peoples and views and religions.

Edited March 3, 2010 by chaik76

[chaik76]

(never mind. I've described the discrimination enough times.)

Oh, yeah. [deleted post] has happened here too...we're also Orthodox.

[chaik76]

I'm not Christian, but even if I was I would not join a group that required me to sign a statement of faith. I don't believe in excluding people based on faith, race, or sexual preference.

This too...(well, I'm Christian...but the rest).

 

Exactly why I won't sign a statement of faith (even if I agreed with it 100%).

[ShelzNH]

Since belonging to our Christian homeschool group I have known at least three people to come to Christ. Two of whom told me that the believers in our group had a direct influence on their change of heart... So sad to think where those people would be if our group had closed its doors to non-christians...It is this kind of un-Christian behavior that turns so many away from Jesus... On the other hand I am glad the leadership of my group is coming from a Christian perspective. The membership manual clearly states that the group is Christian and that the co-op classes are taught from a Christian perspective.

[Ginevra]

We had a debacle like this in the co-op I belong to. It is a Christian group, but some people wanted it to be more exclusive in scope. It caused a division and some members left to form their own more exclusive group.

 

I have nothing against a group being Christian, but I don't feel the need to shut people out. As long as people do not join with the intention of being anti- Christian, I don't see the need to have them sign a Statement of Faith.

[chaik76]

:iagree: I like the idea of knowing who and what I'm getting involved with where my kids are concerned. It's one of the big reasons we homeschool - I was tired of all the "exposure" they were getting in ps to things that did not align with our beliefs. They will be exposed, but when it's appropriate age and maturity wise, and when we deem fit.

 

Honestly I'm kind of surprised there aren't more people glad to have a SoF. This is a very PC kind of thread. As a Bible-believing Christian, I am called to discernment and fellowship with fellow believers. My homeschool group is quite like-mined and it's comfortable because of that. You can look at it as a filter if you like, but I'd appreciate knowing in most circumstances what kind of a group I could potentially be getting involved in so that I can decide this one's not for me. The filter goes both ways!

I think it is fine to be like this...but as a Christian (who does believe in the Bible, but not totally literally) I feel it is very important to be a part of our community and for my children to be exposed to all sorts of ideas and beliefs. However, we do not homeschool for religious reasons, although religion is part of our teaching...we homeschool for academic reasons. Our son was in the public school district last year for part of the year, and we honestly minded none of what he was exposed to.

[laughing lioness]

 

 

I read "The Post American World" by Fareed Zakaria a couple of weeks ago and was struck by this quote:

 

 

 

"America has become a nation consumed by anxiety, worried about terrorists and rogue nations, Muslims, and Mexicans, foreign companies and free trade,immigrants and international organizations. The strongest nation in the historyof the world now sees itself as besieged by forces beyond its control...too many Americans have been taken in by a rhetoric of fear."

 

 

 

What really hit me was how much this applies to the American Christian church. I've actually heard "leaders" of homeschool groups state that they are "keeping an eye" on other families. I've been told by "fellow" Christians that I am not saved because I won't agree with their take on the age of the earth. My kids have been publically humiliated by church and homeschool "leaders" because they read fantasy or fiction. I have been told that my dh (a psychologist) cant' really be saved because he is steeped in humanism. I've heard pastors declare loudly and publically about their "gifts of leadership" while at the same time state that they are "aware of the 'spys' in the congregation trying to 'trip them up' on first ammendment rights.

 

ACKKKKKK!!!!

Enough already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WagsWife]

 

[/indent]I absolutely feel that anybody can and should start any sort of homeschool group they want to, including ones with statements of faith. That is, of course, their right. But it saddens me that anyone would feel excluded from a homeschool community; it might (especially in a smal community such as this one) weaken their resolve to continue homeschooling--I mean, don't we all already feel a bit like outcasts :lol:? I wish homeschool groups (especially when there aren't many options otherwise) wouldn't request this.

 

What's your perspective?

 

I totally understand where you are coming from, and felt the exact same way...until last year. I helped to run a very active homeschool group here on base. The group was started as a Christian group and required a Statement of Faith. Shortly before I came on board to help run it, it was decided that we wanted to reach out to all the homeschoolers and the SOF was done away with.

 

It worked wonderfully for a few years...and then all heck broke loose! We went through a year of turmoil as the non-Christians tried to force us to change the fact that it is a Christian group. In that year we lost a lot of people because they did not want to have to deal with the drama. It was very ugly. It ended up splitting both the group and friendships.

 

I was very naive...I never thought that women who I considered friends would conduct themselves the way they did. I am still not crazy about a SOF for every member (I prefer more of a signed statement, acknowledging that they understand that it IS a Christian group, and that they will not try to interfere with that.)...but after our experience, I totally support a groups right to use whatever means they feel are necessary, to ensure the original vision for the group, stays intact.

[lionfamily1999]

It saddens me that any Christians would want to 'keep people out'. Grace and welcoming open arms are to me the hallmarks of a good Christian.

Hmm, how do I put this? For certain groups anyone who fulfills the requirements is welcome. For a group of parents that do not wish to have what they feel is the center of existence pulled into question, knowing that their children will be free and even encouraged to express or enjoy their faith and that they will not get the stink eye if they offer praise reports or just want to discuss whatever they read in their Bible that morning, a SoF can help provide that.

 

We should be full of mercy, compassion and willing to usher people into God's presence, but that does not mean there isn't a time when it's best to be exclusive. We are stewards of our children. Our job isn't so much to make sure they're worldly, as it is to make sure they're Godly and on the road to righteousness.

[TravelingChris]

I have been in many support groups over the years. Some required a statement of faith but were basic enough that Orthodox Christians, Catholics, and Seventh Day Adventists were all welcome. Others has an statement of faith but nobody had to sign it, just not go against it. In the group I am in now, we meet in a Baptist Church. I am not a baptist and in fact, do not belong to a church which practices adult baptism. It isn't a problem. THe statement says what they believe and we have to say we won't be advocating in class a position contrary to their beliefs. The statement makes it very clear that my kids won't be attending the apologetics class nor the science classes. However, they find plenty to do and I teach social science classes. There are others who attend who have far less in common with the Baptist church than we do. I know we have Catholics and Orthodox and my daughter was telling me that one of her friends is Jewish. My economics class could be taught to anyone of any religion. At most, my kids sometimes bring up ethical issues since they bring in a news story each week to discuss.

[stripe]

Is the point of a statement of faith to limit membership to likeminded people so that there are no theological disagreements, a consensus of a religious focus to the group, or what? I am curious to know.

[lionfamily1999]

Is the point of a statement of faith to limit membership to likeminded people so that there are no theological disagreements, a consensus of a religious focus to the group, or what? I am curious to know.

I'm not in a group, and the closest to a sof I've ever signed was at church, but I'm pretty sure it is. That's what would make sense to me, anyway.

[angela in ohio]

It worked wonderfully for a few years...and then all heck broke loose! We went through a year of turmoil as the non-Christians tried to force us to change the fact that it is a Christian group. In that year we lost a lot of people because they did not want to have to deal with the drama. It was very ugly. It ended up splitting both the group and friendships.

 

And that's why you have a SOF. It's not about keeping people out; it's about things like this.

[i.love.lucy]

Hmm, how do I put this? For certain groups anyone who fulfills the requirements is welcome. For a group of parents that do not wish to have what they feel is the center of existence pulled into question, knowing that their children will be free and even encouraged to express or enjoy their faith and that they will not get the stink eye if they offer praise reports or just want to discuss whatever they read in their Bible that morning, a SoF can help provide that.

 

We should be full of mercy, compassion and willing to usher people into God's presence, but that does not mean there isn't a time when it's best to be exclusive. We are stewards of our children. Our job isn't so much to make sure they're worldly, as it is to make sure they're Godly and on the road to righteousness.

This. Well said.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

has a board of directors, all of whom are Christian. I am a Christian. However, I want a group that is for home schoolers, not just "Christian" ones. Within the last couple of years, there have been some changes in our group. We now have a clearly spelled-out dress code that is very similar to that of public schools in our area. I have a few MINOR issues with it (non-human colored hair = a "who cares?" in my house). What I don't like is the supposed motive as defined by the board: "...promote godliness in our children..." Godliness according to whom? We don't require a SOF so who's to say all the members care about godliness at all? Don't get me wrong - most of the dress code matches our family standard for dress anyway. I just don't like that our group thinks it can determine proper looks for others. Just fyi, it also bans "gothic makeup and clothing, (and) any piercing except girls' earrings." I pointed out to a board member that the girls could wear the makeup of a $10 hooker and still be in dress code, but modest black pants and a black t-shirt could be considered gothic.

Sorry - rant over now.

t.

 

I'm a scout leader and one thing that I've learned is that every solution to a group issue opens a different issue. Sounds like that is part of what has happened with the dress code. (I'm a personal fan of the one from my husband's high school, no jeans and only collared shirts - but it would be a major change for my jean and tie dye tshirt loving oldest).

 

I think that it is worth considering as a group leader what the real problem at hand is. If it is unruly behavior or immodest/distracting/unbusinesslike attire, then address it that way. But don't assume that the Goth has poor morals and values while the polo shirt clad crew cut kid is self-controlled and well behaved.

 

I was part of a group that got fed up with one or two parents dropping their kids off for every group activity and class but never helping (or even staying). Having been abused as substitute teachers and ersatz babysitters, their solution was to impose a point system for the entire group (rather than confronting the errant parent). Group membership dropped by almost 1/3 because families who were happy to be part of a few things weren't interested in that level of group activity. In the end I think that the group lost out. (Oh, and the errant parent didn't do her points anyway, so the problem remained until she moved.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

For me, it depends on the nature and purpose of the group. A group that formed out of members of one church that holds classes as a coop - I wouldn't be surprised by a SOF. Something that has a specific activity focus like a debate team or Lego League team I would think that a SOF were out of place.

 

A pure support group that was just homeschoolers coming together to do field trips, plan occasional activities, do spelling bees and encourage each other in homeschooling, well it would depend.

 

I also like the idea of their being a Statement of Faith that in fact states what the purpose and belief of the group is, without requiring others to hold those beliefs to join the group. Or as one magazine I read puts it, "Our statement of faith describes our doctrinal editorial policy; it does not define our boundaries of fellowship."

[fivetails]

Our group has a SOF, but it isn't *required* unless you want to participate in a leadership position... :)

 

"As you can tell from the name of the group and the information provided here, our group does have a Christian focus. We do have a Statement of Faith that is provided to all families when they express interest in joining the group, and those who wish to hold leadership positions within the group are expected to agree with the Statement of Faith, but we do not restrict our general membership based on faith ~ if you can not/do not agree with the Statement of Faith, we just ask that you agree to respect the convictions of others."

[Time4tea]

Often times if you ask, the SOF is not necessarily what you believe but to make sure you understand what they believe and where their perspective will be coming from.

[Carrie12345]

Okay, for all of you are saying "isn't it better to know upfront what you're getting into" that seems to be a chicken or egg proposition. By requiring a SOF, they are excluding people who might be Christian but not "their type" of Christian, or who might disagree with the wording, or who might feel they won't fit in. So of course, by limiting themselves in this way and by defining the requirements of their membership so specifically, they actually dissuade people who might be open and interested in discussing Christianity from joining. OTOH, I do see the point of posters who are saying "hey, wouldd you really want to join a group where CLEARLY the people are so different from you, and they're actually telling you up front that YOU DO NOT BELONG HERE."

 

I mean, when you go to church they don't ask at the door "wait, do you believe Jesus to be the only path to God?" They welcome you, they feed you, they teach you--regardless of what you believe. And if you are so moved, then you join the church, you ascribe to their teachings and tenets, and your faith deepens. Obviously, you know what you're getting to a degree when you go to church, and obviously, some part of you is seeking. I know a HS group is not a church (actually in many ways, those that require SOFs are less inclusive, less welcoming and in my mind, less Christian than a church!) If a homeschool group stated a christian mission, but didn't require a SOF, my sense is that more people would feel more welcome, and more people would feel that sense of welcome and community, which in turn would turn their hearts closer to God.

 

And isn't your faith a matter between you and God? I don't like the idea of a HS group deciding whether I am 'religious' enough to join their group. Just gives me the willies.

 

No willies here!

If I could gather up a group of non-theistic (not simply secular or inclusive) homeschoolers, I'd be thrilled. I would continue with my inclusive groups, continue my friendships with religious friends and continue teaching my kids what I've always taught them. But I would very much enjoy the opportunity to spend time with like-minded families, discuss issues that are often taboo elsewhere and show my kids that there are other kids "like them" out there.

 

I really don't see it as any more "discriminating" than unschooling homeschool groups, cyber homeschool groups, African American homeschool groups, or special needs homeschool groups (all of which we have in this area). It doesn't make me feel bad for being a classical, traditional homeschooler, white, or having some non-special needs kids. They just don't offer the community I'm looking for, and I don't fit their purpose.

 

I don't see anything "wrong" in wanting to gather with like-minded people. I do raise my eyebrows when I hear from people who ONLY EVER want to do so, but I can completely understand the desire to have one place to feel completely at ease with one's ideals.

 

With the complexities of Christianity, I can absolutely see how some groups would want to include a SOF. It really stinks for people with limited options in their area, but there are no laws preventing anyone from starting an additional group. There's lots of overlap where we are!

[lionfamily1999]

No willies here!

If I could gather up a group of non-theistic (not simply secular or inclusive) homeschoolers, I'd be thrilled. I would continue with my inclusive groups, continue my friendships with religious friends and continue teaching my kids what I've always taught them. But I would very much enjoy the opportunity to spend time with like-minded families, discuss issues that are often taboo elsewhere and show my kids that there are other kids "like them" out there.

 

I really don't see it as any more "discriminating" than unschooling homeschool groups, cyber homeschool groups, African American homeschool groups, or special needs homeschool groups (all of which we have in this area). It doesn't make me feel bad for being a classical, traditional homeschooler, white, or having some non-special needs kids. They just don't offer the community I'm looking for, and I don't fit their purpose.

 

I don't see anything "wrong" in wanting to gather with like-minded people. I do raise my eyebrows when I hear from people who ONLY EVER want to do so, but I can completely understand the desire to have one place to feel completely at ease with one's ideals.

 

With the complexities of Christianity, I can absolutely see how some groups would want to include a SOF. It really stinks for people with limited options in their area, but there are no laws preventing anyone from starting an additional group. There's lots of overlap where we are!

It's good to hear the same opinion from an opposite quarter, iykwIm. Thanks for chiming in :) and (except that I am a Christian, so my choices would be the opposite) :iagree:

[GWOB]

 

I read "The Post American World" by Fareed Zakaria a couple of weeks ago and was struck by this quote:

 

 

 

"America has become a nation consumed by anxiety, worried about terrorists and rogue nations, Muslims, and Mexicans, foreign companies and free trade,immigrants and international organizations. The strongest nation in the historyof the world now sees itself as besieged by forces beyond its control...too many Americans have been taken in by a rhetoric of fear."

 

 

 

What really hit me was how much this applies to the American Christian church. I've actually heard "leaders" of homeschool groups state that they are "keeping an eye" on other families. I've been told by "fellow" Christians that I am not saved because I won't agree with their take on the age of the earth. My kids have been publically humiliated by church and homeschool "leaders" because they read fantasy or fiction. I have been told that my dh (a psychologist) cant' really be saved because he is steeped in humanism. I've heard pastors declare loudly and publically about their "gifts of leadership" while at the same time state that they are "aware of the 'spys' in the congregation trying to 'trip them up' on first ammendment rights.

 

ACKKKKKK!!!!

Enough already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:iagree: Gets kinda old, doesn't it?

 

Here is my take on the whole SOF thing. Jesus=love. Period. How in the world am I supposed to show that love to others if I won't even let them talk to me? How am I showing that love, which btw Jesus emphasized (in my Bible at least, but I may be using the "wrong" Bible),if I am essentially telling others "Your beliefs, though they may be Christian, are not Christian enough for me." Jesus did not tell us "Go out into the world and carve out for yourselves an exclusive group if like-minded people and be legalistic. And make sure there are no Catholics or Orthodox families. Oh, just for good measure, make sure no one in your group believes in an old earth, because that is really why I came to die." I am pretty sure he said "Go into the world and teach the Gospel."

[Halcyon]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Carrie12345]

 

Here is my take on the whole SOF thing. Jesus=love. Period. How in the world am I supposed to show that love to others if I won't even let them talk to me? How am I showing that love, which btw Jesus emphasized (in my Bible at least, but I may be using the "wrong" Bible),if I am essentially telling others "Your beliefs, though they may be Christian, are not Christian enough for me." Jesus did not tell us "Go out into the world and carve out for yourselves an exclusive group if like-minded people and be legalistic. And make sure there are no Catholics or Orthodox families. Oh, just for good measure, make sure no one in your group believes in an old earth, because that is really why I came to die." I am pretty sure he said "Go into the world and teach the Gospel."

 

So, if you (general you, just to be clear) think a group is "doing" Christianity "wrong", why would you want to be in their group, and why would they want you to be there? *Should they be open to members who's ideals conflict with their own, whether within the Christian religion or outside of it? Where should the line be drawn, if there should be any line at all? Should I, as an atheist, be welcome to bring my children (who may mention evolution or wear tank tops or call things "hott" <not that I'm thrilled about that one> ) into absolutely any sort of homeschool group and just expect them to accept our family style?

 

While I may not think it's a big deal to "inflict" my beliefs/thoughts/style on the general public because I know we're good, fun, smart people, why would I want to shove it all on people who clearly state they are hoping to commune with people who share their point of view?

[lionfamily1999]

 

Here is my take on the whole SOF thing. Jesus=love. Period. How in the world am I supposed to show that love to others if I won't even let them talk to me? How am I showing that love, which btw Jesus emphasized (in my Bible at least, but I may be using the "wrong" Bible),if I am essentially telling others "Your beliefs, though they may be Christian, are not Christian enough for me." Jesus did not tell us "Go out into the world and carve out for yourselves an exclusive group if like-minded people and be legalistic. And make sure there are no Catholics or Orthodox families. Oh, just for good measure, make sure no one in your group believes in an old earth, because that is really why I came to die." I am pretty sure he said "Go into the world and teach the Gospel."

It's not as though we're talking about communes, we're talking about play groups or classes. God did NOT tell us to send our children out into the world, He told us to protect them and put them on the right road.

 

There's a world of difference between joining a group with a SoF and carving out a niche to keep you from the world. We are called to share the gospel, we're also called to exercise stewardship over our children.

[mirth]

I feel far less sad that anyone would feel excluded from a hs'ing community than if someone is effectively excluded only after finding out that the unwritten statement of faith in a group is something way other than what you believe, but it is too late. That is, you find out only after you've paid the fees, opted out of the Gymboree class you could've taken, made new friends, signed up for the snack list, etc.

 

I also don't understand how a group can measure if it is deviating from the intentions of the founding members if it does not write down the reason that it exists. I think every organization should have a charter. Once the groups actions deviate from this, they are free to make another group.

 

Even church charters sometimes include maximum family size. Once the church grows beyond a certain # of families, the new members are to form a new church. This can be seen to be exclusionary as well. "There is no room for you here."

 

If a hs'ing group caps it max size (and most do!) instead of making plans to find a way to accomodate an unlimited # of would-be members, is this not exclusionary as well? (Yes, by definition it is.) "But we want to maintain a close-knit group of friends." Ok, well the faith implicit in the preceding statement is that friendship with anyone you've already included is more highly valued than whatever comfort or knowledge a new member could offer.

 

As the OP said:

I absolutely feel that anybody can and should start any sort of homeschool group they want to, including ones with statements of faith. That is, of course, their right.

 

Sure.

[GWOB]

So, if you (general you, just to be clear) think a group is "doing" Christianity "wrong", why would you want to be in their group, and why would they want you to be there? *Should they be open to members who's ideals conflict with their own, whether within the Christian religion or outside of it? Where should the line be drawn, if there should be any line at all? Should I, as an atheist, be welcome to bring my children (who may mention evolution or wear tank tops or call things "hott" <not that I'm thrilled about that one> ) into absolutely any sort of homeschool group and just expect them to accept our family style?

 

While I may not think it's a big deal to "inflict" my beliefs/thoughts/style on the general public because I know we're good, fun, smart people, why would I want to shove it all on people who clearly state they are hoping to commune with people who share their point of view?

 

I fear I may have been misunderstood, or maybe I am misunderstanding you. I personally, as a Christian, will not sign any sort of SOF to join a group. I do understand that groups have a right to exclude, or include depending on your point of view, whomever they wish. Personally, I would prefer a more inclusive group where everyone felt comfortable. You learn more that way, IMO. If you, as an atheist, were to walk into my group, I would be more than welcoming of you, as long as you were friendly and your kids didn't bite mine.

 

I don't want to be part of any sort of group that thinks I'm "doing it wrong" with reference to Christianity. And as a Christian, I think groups like that do nothing to unite the Body of Christ. It causes hurt feelings and disagreements.

 

Did I make myself clear? Did I understand you correctly? (I gave up caffeine for Lent, so my brain is only working at half-capacity.)

[angela in ohio]

It's not as though we're talking about communes, we're talking about play groups or classes.

 

Yes, I don't get the 'SOF equals we-never-talk-to-non-Christians' bit. Just how much time do people spend with their homeschool group? :tongue_smilie:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:iagree: Gets kinda old, doesn't it?

 

Here is my take on the whole SOF thing. Jesus=love. Period. How in the world am I supposed to show that love to others if I won't even let them talk to me? How am I showing that love, which btw Jesus emphasized (in my Bible at least, but I may be using the "wrong" Bible),if I am essentially telling others "Your beliefs, though they may be Christian, are not Christian enough for me." Jesus did not tell us "Go out into the world and carve out for yourselves an exclusive group if like-minded people and be legalistic. And make sure there are no Catholics or Orthodox families. Oh, just for good measure, make sure no one in your group believes in an old earth, because that is really why I came to die." I am pretty sure he said "Go into the world and teach the Gospel."

 

Amen:D

[k10coon]

I realize that there are two types of SOFs out there - one only stating where the group is coming from and one requiring you to profess your belief.

 

The first type I get.

 

The second type I don't. I would no more profess my faith, on demand, to a fellow sinner than I would profess my denial of faith, on demand, to a fellow sinner.

[Carrie12345]

I fear I may have been misunderstood, or maybe I am misunderstanding you. I personally, as a Christian, will not sign any sort of SOF to join a group. I do understand that groups have a right to exclude, or include depending on your point of view, whomever they wish. Personally, I would prefer a more inclusive group where everyone felt comfortable. You learn more that way, IMO. If you, as an atheist, were to walk into my group, I would be more than welcoming of you, as long as you were friendly and your kids didn't bite mine.

 

I don't want to be part of any sort of group that thinks I'm "doing it wrong" with reference to Christianity. And as a Christian, I think groups like that do nothing to unite the Body of Christ. It causes hurt feelings and disagreements.

 

Did I make myself clear? Did I understand you correctly? (I gave up caffeine for Lent, so my brain is only working at half-capacity.)

 

That's okay. I'm fully caffeinated and probably still at half-capacity, lol.

 

There are probably aspects at play that I can't fully related to. To me, there's no more reason for hurt feelings when "a certain kind of Christianity" wants to stick with that "certain kind of Christianity" than when a Christian group doesn't want to include Jews or Muslims or non-theists or unschoolers don't want to include cyber schoolers.

 

I just wrote a whole lot more, but it was extremely babbly. I guess the basic gist was that I see a big difference between someone saying "we don't want to play with you" and "you're a crummy person". I think exclusive groups use the former, not necessarily the latter (though I'm sure some crummy groups do both :tongue_smilie:)

[GWOB]

It's not as though we're talking about communes, we're talking about play groups or classes. God did NOT tell us to send our children out into the world, He told us to protect them and put them on the right road.

 

There's a world of difference between joining a group with a SoF and carving out a niche to keep you from the world. We are called to share the gospel, we're also called to exercise stewardship over our children.

 

Not once did I mention communes. I did mention exclusive groups. I will share a little story with you.

 

My parents were extremely exclusive. I was not allowed to be friends with non-Christians, even though I went to ps. I went to an extremely legalistic church that did not welcome "different" people (pretty much anyone who was not white or Southern Baptist). Oh, they "protected" me from the world. Then I left home, as most kids do. I did not possess the skills to defend my faith. I left the faith for a long time because I had no idea how to deal with different ideas and information. That will not happen to my kids. They will know about other faiths. They will deal with questions about their faith with my help, while under my roof, and with my guidance.

 

I understand your point. It is a valid opinion. I just completely disagree with it. And I can disagree with it without twisting your words or making assumptions that are frankly inaccurate.

[Pip]

I fear I may have been misunderstood, or maybe I am misunderstanding you. I personally, as a Christian, will not sign any sort of SOF to join a group. I do understand that groups have a right to exclude, or include depending on your point of view, whomever they wish. Personally, I would prefer a more inclusive group where everyone felt comfortable. You learn more that way, IMO. If you, as an atheist, were to walk into my group, I would be more than welcoming of you, as long as you were friendly and your kids didn't bite mine.

 

I don't want to be part of any sort of group that thinks I'm "doing it wrong" with reference to Christianity. And as a Christian, I think groups like that do nothing to unite the Body of Christ. It causes hurt feelings and disagreements.

 

Did I make myself clear? Did I understand you correctly? (I gave up caffeine for Lent, so my brain is only working at half-capacity.)

 

I agree with this completely. Just because some words are on paper means that you put it into practice the same way. As a non-Evangelical Christian in an Evangelical mecca, I find a lot of Christians raise their eyebrows at me for being Lutheran. My Catholic friends run into the same problem. Homestly, my experience has been that the groups that have a SOF are more judgmental than those that don't.

 

At least here, I see an incredible amount a fear among the homeschoolers. Fear of the gov't, fear of society, fear of public schoolers. I am not saying that there are not real issues out there, but this borders on crazy. I see an unusual amount of effort put into trying to manipulate and control the world around their children. I find that perplexing from people who are to give their fears to the Lord and recognize his sovreignty. I know that is hard, I struggle with it, but still.... To me, a SOF you have to sign is one more instrument of over-zealous control.

 

I am all for forming a group of like-minded people. But my personal experience has shown me that the groups that require a SOF would not approve of my form of Christianity and there would be a huge amount of making my children a project. There would be people going to conferences that I wouldn't go to because I don't agree with their theology - I could go on and on. So why bother to join one of these groups?

[angela in ohio]

My parents were extremely exclusive. I was not allowed to be friends with non-Christians, even though I went to ps. I went to an extremely legalistic church that did not welcome "different" people (pretty much anyone who was not white or Southern Baptist). Oh, they "protected" me from the world. Then I left home, as most kids do. I did not possess the skills to defend my faith. I left the faith for a long time because I had no idea how to deal with different ideas and information. That will not happen to my kids. They will know about other faiths. They will deal with questions about their faith with my help, while under my roof, and with my guidance.

 

But that's an extreme. Most people signing a SOF are not sheltering their dc to this point.

 

As usually happens whenever a discussion enters multiple pages on this board (and I have my pages set at 50 posts, so I'm talking about threads with posts in the hundreds,) there has been a false division set up. The only two choices are not 'sign a statemement of faith' OR 'talk to other people in the world.' There are many (most?) Christian homeschoolers in between.

[shinyhappypeople]

I guess the basic gist was that I see a big difference between someone saying "we don't want to play with you" and "you're a crummy person". I think exclusive groups use the former, not necessarily the latter (though I'm sure some crummy groups do both :tongue_smilie:)

 

"We don't want our kids to play with yours" IS a judgment on us as a family. Are my kids not "good enough" to play tag with? Seriously? This strikes me as so very strange and sad.

 

I understand a level of exclusivity with regards to Bible studies, missions projects and other specifically faith-centric ventures.

 

But park days? Spanish club? I just don't understand how it could possibly matter. It seems more like excluding for the sake of excluding, motivated by neither love (for the group) nor hate (of "outsiders") so much as FEAR of the "others" contaminating your child. (Again - my kids and I aren't supposed to interpret exclusion as a judgment??)

 

Go ahead and create a general SOF for the group if you want it maintain a Christian focus or flavor. But a signed SOF by all members? Bleh.

 

BTW, food for thought: just because a parent believes a certain way doesn't mean that their kids will. My husband remembers youth group well. It was the kids from the good families, entrenched in the church who were professing faith on Sunday and then using drugs and sleeping around the rest of the week. Ha - I'd better keep my kids out of Christian-exclusive HS groups so those church kids won't be a bad influence on my girls :D (I'm kidding)

Edited March 4, 2010 by shinyhappypeople

[lionfamily1999]

Never mind, thought better of it.

Edited March 4, 2010 by lionfamily1999