Marital "tea" rights?

[Scarlett]

I'm so sorry you went through that. It's so good that you realize that you weren't to blame. It took me a loooong time to understand that! I'm glad you are free now. Isn't it a wonderful feeling?

 

Oh yeah. In the words of William Wallace....."FREEEEEEEEDOM!!!!!!"

 

Legally I will be at the end of the month. :tongue_smilie: But I am free now in that I know I never have to live with him again.

[TxMama]

I'm sorry that you did so much to contribute to your marriage problems. I'm sorry that divorce made your life worse than when you were married.

 

Don't project your history on other people. Some people are in a marriage with problems that will not get fixed no matter how hard they work on it. Sometimes a sweet, wonderful person who is doing all they can is married to a bad person. It happens.

 

I was to blame for marrying my exh in the first place and for not leaving sooner. I was not to blame for not trying to fix myself. I was not to blame for not trying hard enough.

 

Oh no! Another misunderstanding.:001_huh:

 

My divorce didn't make my life worse it just created new more complicated problems. It also didn't solve any problems.

 

My first marriage would not have been fixed. I am a sweet, wonderful person who was married to a person that I shouldn't have married in the first place. :tongue_smilie:

 

You are right. Sometimes the biggest contributions a woman makes to her divorce is choosing the wrong marriage partner. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. And I am certainly not disagreeing that a woman should get out of an abusive relationship.

 

BUT sometimes we are married to a good but not perfect man and we get in some selfish patterns that contribute to divorce. Everyone has selfish patterns in their behavior. I have yet to meet a perfect person.

 

I could have easily slipped into the men are scum thought process and my current dh isn't meeting all my needs and let my current marriage slip to oblivion. That's easy to do when you are blameless and don't feel you are making contributions to the problem.

[Supertechmom]

Well now I have a question after reading all the posts, Did the person enter the marriage according to the bible? Is just standing in the church saying the vows enough to label the marriage "biblical" and thus label ending it in a biblical way?:confused:

Does that make any sense? IF they entered the marriage as sinners, if they were unequally yoked, if they broke other biblical calls to marriage to begin with, then are they still under the bible to end it biblically?? Does the beginning change the ending?

Not to high jack the the thread but just wondering if starting out in an unbible way determines if you actually entered into a marriage that falls under it's principles?

 

Regardless, I would tell her I can't tell her it's okay or not, only point her to scriptures that relate to that and leave it to her to decide. I can only pray for her that God gives her the discernment to do what is right whatever that may be. As her friend I will stand beside her as she needs. That's all I would tell her.

[mommybee]

I just wanted to add as someone who has been dealing with this for awhile now, It's so much more than just no s*x.

 

It's getting no kissing, hugging or emotional comfort at all. It's not being able to watch hardly any of my favorite sitcoms or any new movies because when we watch tv together, seeing people having s*x makes me want to cry. I cried at a bra commercial the other day because I can't be free and be myself. I just can't spend the rest of my life feeling like I'm unworthy of affection. I'd rather be alone and not being getting any then suffer like this.

 

It's been discussed to the point where I'm just done. We could fix anything and I'd be willing if we could have that intimacy but he flat out has refused. And I've been begging him for years and years. I am at a breaking point and I don't see any other way out. I don't know why I should stay and suffer when there is no hope of fixing it.

 

We had two therapy sessions where he claimed I can get angry easily and that makes him withhold from me. So he's been punishing me, But the real deal is I didn't know any of this so I couldn't fix it. I begged and begged for years for him to tell me the issue, he just ignores me. I thought it might be a physical problem but it isn't. I thought I was going crazy! I thought I was too fat or getting to old. I have lost my self worth completely.

 

I'm a stay at home homeschooling mom with no real money coming in. I feel trapped in every way. I never dreamed of this. I made the choice to raise my family and sacrifice and now he's changing the rules....it's just not fair to me. And I don't want to find another man, I just can't take how bad it feels all the time.

 

Until you live it you just don't realize how destructive it can be to your mental health.

[Sputterduck]

That's awful mommybee. :(

[mommybee]

That's awful mommybee. :(

 

I'm having one of those moments where I think "did I just write that for all the world to see?"

 

it sure does feel awful...

[kalanamak]

I just wanted to add as someone who has been dealing with this for awhile now, It's so much more than just no s*x.

 

It's getting no kissing, hugging or emotional comfort at all.

 

I'd rather be alone and not being getting any then suffer like this.

 

 

 

 

:grouphug: Oh, I sympathize. I held on for 6 years of silence and finally succumbed to divorce.

[Heather in Neverland]

I'm having one of those moments where I think "did I just write that for all the world to see?"

 

it sure does feel awful...

 

OMG...you sound just like my friend and my heart aches for you. :grouphug:

 

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. This woman is my best friend on earth and I want what is best for her....emotionally, physically, spiritually...I guess there is no easy answer. Maybe I was hoping you all had an easy answer that I hadn't thought of? :tongue_smilie: All I can do is listen to her and pray for her and that is so hard for me because I am a "fixer". I want to help her "fix" her problem so she can be happy and I HATE when I don't have the answer, ya know?

 

Thanks again.

[Catwoman]

All I can do is listen to her and pray for her and that is so hard for me because I am a "fixer". I want to help her "fix" her problem so she can be happy and I HATE when I don't have the answer, ya know?

 

Heather, you are helping her! Just because you don't know all the answers doesn't mean you're not doing your friend a lot of good by being there for her, listening to her vent, and praying for her.

 

Really, no one could do anything more than that for her, and I'm sure she realizes that and appreciates your love and friendship.

 

Cat

[Liz CA]

I posted before I read this response and will say I am guilty of assuming just that! :tongue_smilie: Many marriages ARE like that, but many aren't. Many have the blame for problems laid squarely at the feet of ONE person, imperfect as the other person is too. I am glad you were able to change yourself and have a happy marriage now.

 

And honestly, we can't possibly know if Heather's friend is in the type of marriage that is fixable or in the type like mine which was not. Mine I made bearable only by choosing to sacrifice my happiness in order to honor my vow. It was not a marriage that could have ever been fixed.

 

Yes, if Heather who knows her friend well does not know what to say, how can we evaluate? There are two divorces going on in my circle of friends and it's surprising to me how it affects me. We don't even live very close to each other.

So sorry for what you described, Scarlett. I am now thinking of the square for your quilt! At least it's a happy thought!

 

:grouphug:

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by Wendy B.

Divorce isn't the answer. Divorce is never a good option for the children even if they are no longer in the home. Does she really want to have her adult children and grandchildren having to deal with which parent to visit on holidays for the rest. of . her . life?

 

Instead of suggesting ideas for him to solve "his" problem, if it were my friend I would suggest ways for her to address her side of the problem. Marriage is a two-way street so there is something she is doing to contribute to the problem.

 

 

I would suggest something like the Love Dare.

 

For destroyed "marriages" held by people unwilling to get well, this advice KILLS. Sometimes literally, but usually emotionally and spiritually.

 

I used to by into the trite "divorce is not an option", "people divorce for frivilous reasons", "stay for the kids", "fix yourself and the other will change" and "it takes two...."

 

I don't anymore. While I do think many hurting marraiges can be fixed and healed, to assert that divorce is NEVER the right option, ALWAYS the worst for the kids or that it's always a two way street is to perpetuate abuse.

 

I nearly died with the above thinking.

[6packofun]

Well, there is definitely resentment and frustration but it's not ongoing and it's not ever going to trump the covenant that I choose to keep day in and day out.

 

BUT, it's extremely difficult. You don't realize just how important s*xual intimacy is until there isn't any in your relationship! When everything's going fine, it's no big deal that there might not be as much of that as you'd prefer. When everything's going poorly, even temporarily, and you don't have that special, assured oneness, it sucks.

 

I pray constantly about it because sometimes it's almost too much to bear. I've prayed for my drive to decrease or go away completely, but God hasn't done that. I have to read Bible verses about who God says I am because if I didn't, some days I'd feel like an ugly maid who's just married to the father of my children for their sake. And I've never really had self-esteem issues!

 

Maybe it's easier for me, in some ways, because my dh has been this way from the very start. I've gotten angry because I tried to be a good Christian and stay pure until marriage, but due to my beliefs I couldn't realize until my honeymoon when 2 nights of really becoming one was quite enough for dh that this was my future. I wouldn't have agreed to it. LOL But I don't let myself go there very often. One can think a whole lotta stuff with what-ifs, of course.

 

The one thing that has been hardest for me, and Joanne hit on it here, is trying to keep up the nons*xual affection. Oh, HE loves all of that and I think that subconsciously (OK, and consciously) I've allowed myself to withhold that from him as a sort of revenge. Not a good idea. I'm still responsible for loving him in the best way that I can even though he's not doing the same for me. He's just not. No amount of meeting his needs will ever meet *mine* and that hurts.

 

Also--sorry this is long--but I think it's very important to mention that my dh has ADD. I read 2 books called Driven to Distraction and Delivered from Distraction and they both touch on how an ADD spouse can have a very low interest in s*x (OR the opposite) and it's very much related to how their brain works. It was like reading a script from the movie of my marriage! lol Does that solve my problem? No, but at least I can hurt a little less and maybe believe that it's "not me".

[Doran]

Indeed. I have been dealing with a similar situation for nearly 10 years. I have been very direct and vocal about it. I have been assured that a concerted effort would be made to be mindful of my needs. Over. and over. and over. I cannot begin to express how painful it is to know that your husband is aware of and understands your deep need for physical connection within your marriage and then chooses not to give you that.

 

We are now seeing a counselor and working through it and the issues that have led to my husband's need to withhold things from me. There has been absolutely nothing I have done to contribute to my husband's problem. I am, as everyone else, less than perfect, but this is, in fact, his problem and, until we reached the breaking point, one aspect was his utter refusal to explore the problem at hand and the cause within himself.

 

 

{{{{Angela}}}}

 

I understand, although in our marriage, it was I who was culprit, if you will. It was never intentional, just "who I was." It was excruciating for both of us (though it never got to the point of infrequency noted in the OP), and I expect that it might have killed our marriage eventually. Fortunately, we have both been able to change, to make concessions, and to learn. It took a great deal of love, humility, and tears. But, here we are, more contented than ever, as we approach 19 years together. I wish you the same.

[TxMama]

For destroyed "marriages" held by people unwilling to get well, this advice KILLS. Sometimes literally, but usually emotionally and spiritually.

 

I used to by into the trite "divorce is not an option", "people divorce for frivilous reasons", "stay for the kids", "fix yourself and the other will change" and "it takes two...."

 

I don't anymore. While I do think many hurting marraiges can be fixed and healed, to assert that divorce is NEVER the right option, ALWAYS the worst for the kids or that it's always a two way street is to perpetuate abuse.

 

I nearly died with the above thinking.

 

I actually said. Divorce isn't the answer not Divorce isnt an option.

 

I didn't mean that people should never get divorce or that noone is justified in divorcing. The friend felt unloved and getting divorced wasn't going to make her feel loved. My comment although I didn't clarify was meant for the op and those circumstances and perhaps should have been worded differently. Geez it did get folks all upset.

 

 

 

She was getting lots of advice how to help her friend with coming to the decision to divorce.

 

 

My suggestion was that the op friend should try something new. Shake things up. Fight for her marriage! And I suggested a book that may ( or not) help her do that.

 

Since the ops friend already had a timeline for divorce why not break a few patterns. If you are unhappy in your marriage and your needs aren't met instead of blaming the spouse change yourself. You can't change them anyway. Perhaps the op's friend will still head for divorce because he will not meet her needs or perhaps the dh will decide to meet her halfway and do some changing on his side.

[justamouse]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: mommybee & 6pack :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

It takes STRENGTH, not weakness to share your heartbreaks. It lets people know they are not alone, and helps people reach out. It's an amazing, strong thing to share like that.

[Nestof3]

Speaking from experience, this is not necessarily true. Given his age, he should see a dr.

 

Aubrey,

 

I'm not intending to be snarky, but how can a woman speak from experience on this issue?

[Nestof3]

I definitely think he should have his thyroid and hormone levels checked.

 

Has something dramatic happened to your friend that has changed her appearance? Does he find her attractive, but he just has no sex drive?

[KidsHappen]

{{{{Angela}}}}

 

I understand, although in our marriage, it was I who was culprit, if you will. It was never intentional, just "who I was." It was excruciating for both of us (though it never got to the point of infrequency noted in the OP), and I expect that it might have killed our marriage eventually. Fortunately, we have both been able to change, to make concessions, and to learn. It took a great deal of love, humility, and tears. But, here we are, more contented than ever, as we approach 19 years together. I wish you the same.

 

We will be hitting 19 years in less than a month and your advice helping us through a difference in desires probably deserves some of the credit. I always treasure your advice and input. Thanks, Doran. :)

Edited November 14, 2009 by KidsHappen

[Jean in Newcastle]

Aubrey,

 

I'm not intending to be snarky, but how can a woman speak from experience on this issue?

 

A woman who has a relatively young husband with low T that needed medical intervention can speak with a lot of experience on this issue.

 

Just as if your child had a medical condition that was treated, I'm sure we would listen to your experience on that issue.

[Nestof3]

A woman who has a relatively young husband with low T that needed medical intervention can speak with a lot of experience on this issue.

 

Just as if your child had a medical condition that was treated, I'm sure we would listen to your experience on that issue.

 

That explains it! Thanks

[LadyAberlin]

It's not a solid marriage. There is no infidelity on either side (that I know of) but there is not much of a relationship either. It has been bad for a decade. They've stayed together for the kids. I think the "tea" issue maybe either the final straw or just a way of making herself feel better for breaking her vows and divorcing him.

 

This is so hard as I am a strong believer in marriage and not divorcing if at all possible but I hate to see my friend miserable too. I don't want to advise her to do something that isn't biblical though. sigh....

 

I guess that's part of why I asked...is "tea" a marital expectation/right as far as the bible is concerned and if so does the absence of it allow for divorce?

 

I hate stuff like this. It is so depressing.

 

We'll I've read somewhere, but I can't remember where that refusing to have tea with your partner on a long term basis is grounds for divorce according to Judaism. Tea time is actually considered the woman's right, not the man's.

[Carol in Cal.]

..."If you don't want me, you can't have me" is a pretty reasonable stance on some level. Those who reject their spouses in such a fundamental way are not just exercising their preferences. They are rejecting their spouses, and that is SERIOUS.

 

Is it grounds for divorce? I'm not sure; however, for a Christian, choosing this path is going against the specific commands of God--so it's wrong--a moral failing, regardless. I think that it is important to name this for what it is: Sin.

 

(I would not characterize it that way if it's associated with an illness or injury. But as a choice, it is Biblically indefensible.)

[Mrs Mungo]

..."If you don't want me, you can't have me" is a pretty reasonable stance on some level. Those who reject their spouses in such a fundamental way are not just exercising their preferences. They are rejecting their spouses, and that is SERIOUS.

 

 

I agree. So does The Clash.

 

This indecision's buggin' me,

If you don't want me set me free.

Exactly whom I'm supposed to be

Don't you know which clothes even fit me?

Come on and let me know,

Should I cool it or should I blow?

 

If The Clash *and* The Bible agree (on the fundamental bit)...well...how can you argue?

[Doran]

We will be hitting 19 years in less than a month and your advice helping us through a difference in desires probably deserves some of the credit. I always treasure your advice and input. Thanks, Doran. :)

 

Back atcha! And, congratulations!! :hurray:

[LadyAberlin]

Back atcha! And, congratulations!! :hurray:

 

Doran the quote in your siggy is very interesting in light of this conversation LOL

[Doran]

Doran the quote in your siggy is very interesting in light of this conversation LOL

 

Ah, yes, well....that. That siggy actually grew out of a much longer post here, many moons ago, through which Amy loves Bud and Nicole M sort of gave birth to the "tea" euphemism. To quote my teenager, it was epic. :lol:

[Karenciavo]

You are absolutely right Wendy. :thumbup:

 

I didn't mean that people should never get divorce or that noone is justified in divorcing. The friend felt unloved and getting divorced wasn't going to make her feel loved. My comment although I didn't clarify was meant for the op and those circumstances and perhaps should have been worded differently. Geez it did get folks all upset.

 

She was getting lots of advice how to help her friend with coming to the decision to divorce.

 

My suggestion was that the op friend should try something new. Shake things up. Fight for her marriage! And I suggested a book that may ( or not) help her do that.

 

Since the ops friend already had a timeline for divorce why not break a few patterns. If you are unhappy in your marriage and your needs aren't met instead of blaming the spouse change yourself. You can't change them anyway. Perhaps the op's friend will still head for divorce because he will not meet her needs or perhaps the dh will decide to meet her halfway and do some changing on his side.

[Alison in KY]

I just wanted to add as someone who has been dealing with this for awhile now, It's so much more than just no s*x.

 

It's getting no kissing, hugging or emotional comfort at all. It's not being able to watch hardly any of my favorite sitcoms or any new movies because when we watch tv together, seeing people having s*x makes me want to cry. I cried at a bra commercial the other day because I can't be free and be myself. I just can't spend the rest of my life feeling like I'm unworthy of affection. I'd rather be alone and not being getting any then suffer like this.

 

It's been discussed to the point where I'm just done. We could fix anything and I'd be willing if we could have that intimacy but he flat out has refused. And I've been begging him for years and years. I am at a breaking point and I don't see any other way out. I don't know why I should stay and suffer when there is no hope of fixing it.

(woops, messed up the quote)

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry. I'll share for a moment that some of what you are saying sounds way to familiar. That being said, a few years back I was just begging God for an out. All of my conservative friends were not giving me an out, at all:). They were saying there is no biblical grounds for a divorce. I didnt' like that answer, but I am one who always wants to please, so I just didnt' feel comfortable going through with that. I totally started looking to God, praising him, chasing after him. I settled down with other things. It still hurt, but I just quit focusing, focusing, and focusing some more on all the bad and I tried my best to love him as I'm supposed to love all. I went and found a church and started attending. I can now say that I'm so glad I stayed...but also that I really never felt like God gave me the okay to get out of the relationship. Some would say that God wouldn't do that anyway. I just don't believe that. While my marriage goes from cool to warm and it isn't perfect, it's doable and it's improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years. There is love here. On the flip side, my best friend began having issues and she prayed, prayed, and prayed some more for help, guidance, patience, you name it. She went to counseling, tried to fix herself, etc. She tried to be the help meet wife she was supposed to be. Then one day she felt total peace about divorcing him (the same peace I received to stay in my relationship). She had tried for years, as I had, but I feel like her prayers were answered in a different way. It wasn't easy, but doors were opened, jobs were begun, things fell into place. She has been divorced for about 2 years now and she does not regret it one bit. She actually feels like she can benefit God's kingdom even more, that she is now producing fruit in her life. I even remember her saying that there was one job opening that came up and she really didn't want to do it. She was talking on the phone to tell them no thank you and out of her mouth she was suddenly thanking them and accepting that job (total God moment here). That's how God just set things up in her life, just like he set me up in my life. Now, both me and my husband are closer to God, and my best friend is also closer to God:001_smile:.

 

So I just wanted to encourage you to find that Godly peace, if you can, while you are hurting so bad. He will help you.

 

Alison

[Scarlett]

 

I'm so sorry. I'll share for a moment that some of what you are saying sounds way to familiar. That being said, a few years back I was just begging God for an out. All of my conservative friends were not giving me an out, at all:). They were saying there is no biblical grounds for a divorce. I didnt' like that answer, but I am one who always wants to please, so I just didnt' feel comfortable going through with that. I totally started looking to God, praising him, chasing after him. I settled down with other things. It still hurt, but I just quit focusing, focusing, and focusing some more on all the bad and I tried my best to love him as I'm supposed to love all.

 

So I just wanted to encourage you to find that Godly peace, if you can, while you are hurting so bad. He will help you.

 

Alison

 

This is what happened to me too Alison. After all these years amazing shocking 'from God' evidence was dropped into my lap. I told my mom it was as if the angels in heaven said to each other, 'ok, this one needs a rock dropped on her head to get it!' And whap! they gave me more black and white evidence than I could have ever wanted. In the meantime, while I was doing my best, I was able to survive and even thrive in some aspects.

[Alison in KY]

Yep, sounds just like my friend, and actually me even though I didn't get a divorce. For me, I reached the calm while being married. Even today I can handle things sooo much better than I did a year or so ago. God is good, all the time:001_smile:.

 

I'm so glad God gave you peace through all that you've went through, I'm sure he's also given you some power too:D

[kalanamak]

 

Divorce doesn't mean she is going to be happy.

 

 

 

Just what my ex ruefully admitted to me, later, when he stopped by and asked if I'd take a photo of him for an arranged marriage company ("But you said you hate marriage", I said. "Yes, but I have to get out of this mess somehow.").

I hear he is a little less Eeyore-ish these days (and he finally gave up on an arranged marriage, too).

[mommybee]

 

So I just wanted to encourage you to find that Godly peace, if you can, while you are hurting so bad. He will help you.

 

Alison

 

This is one of the things I am struggling with the most right now. I'm stuck in a place of feeling like I'm being punished for something and I can't find that peace because I'm so angry.

[Carol in Cal.]

I just wanted to add as someone who has been dealing with this for awhile now, It's so much more than just no s*x.

 

It's getting no kissing, hugging or emotional comfort at all. It's not being able to watch hardly any of my favorite sitcoms or any new movies because when we watch tv together, seeing people having s*x makes me want to cry. I cried at a bra commercial the other day because I can't be free and be myself. I just can't spend the rest of my life feeling like I'm unworthy of affection. I'd rather be alone and not being getting any then suffer like this.

 

It's been discussed to the point where I'm just done. We could fix anything and I'd be willing if we could have that intimacy but he flat out has refused. And I've been begging him for years and years. I am at a breaking point and I don't see any other way out. I don't know why I should stay and suffer when there is no hope of fixing it.

 

We had two therapy sessions where he claimed I can get angry easily and that makes him withhold from me. So he's been punishing me, But the real deal is I didn't know any of this so I couldn't fix it. I begged and begged for years for him to tell me the issue, he just ignores me. I thought it might be a physical problem but it isn't. I thought I was going crazy! I thought I was too fat or getting to old. I have lost my self worth completely.

 

I'm a stay at home homeschooling mom with no real money coming in. I feel trapped in every way. I never dreamed of this. I made the choice to raise my family and sacrifice and now he's changing the rules....it's just not fair to me. And I don't want to find another man, I just can't take how bad it feels all the time.

 

Until you live it you just don't realize how destructive it can be to your mental health.

 

Flat out, he is WRONG to use this to punish you. WRONG. It's one thing to have something like that be a brief, situational 'turn off'. It's quite another to withhold as a STRATEGY. That should be off the table completely. It is disgusted and surreal. I am so sorry that you're being treated this way.

[mommybee]

Flat out, he is WRONG to use this to punish you. WRONG. It's one thing to have something like that be a brief, situational 'turn off'. It's quite another to withhold as a STRATEGY. That should be off the table completely. It is disgusted and surreal. I am so sorry that you're being treated this way.

 

 

I appreciate you saying this......It's so true!!

 

Really right now everyday is miserable for me. I'm at a loss for how to move forward as I have talked myself to death about this issue with him.

 

The part I worry over is what kind of example it is setting for my sons. This is not the way I want them to see marriage.

[Sasha]

It's better for kids to be from a broken home than raised in one. Life is short. If you are truly miserable I can guarantee your children are miserable as well, as it's impossible to have a happy home when someone is miserable (not miserable like "I've had a bad day" but "days are bad and they aren't getting any better").

 

For your sake and theirs, get out.

[Mom-ninja.]

I have not read 14 pages of responses.

 

I just wanted to throw out there that perhaps the man should look into having his hormones levels tested. Low testosterone will cause a lack of interest, and can get worse.

[sadiegirl]

I have a friend that is going thru the exact same thing. Her husband is content with 4 times a year...she says it is like living with her brother. He shows no affection and they are trying to keep it together but it is trying on the marriage. They have kids that are in 6th and 5th grades. I told her she should see if he would seek sex therapy or even marriage counseling to determine if it is a medical thing or a mental block. His parents are both deceased and he has NO family...I'm wondering if it may have something to do with that...you know how Jillian on Biggest Loser always relates weight gain to other experiences in your life?!?!?

I think it is crucial to a marriage...

[lcelmer]

The main thing to remember is that GOD's love is sufficient. Remember before marriage?? You weren't getting "tea" then either, but Christ's love was there. :grouphug:

 

No, it is not right for him to withhold "tea", but your happiness does not ultimately depend on "tea", or the quantity of love in your marriage, but rather on the love of our Savior.

 

We know that it is wrong to withhold in marriage... but I am not sure if that means divorce is ok because of that. I would highly recommend talking to your local church's elder/counselor.:001_smile:

Edited November 24, 2009 by lcelmer