tenoraddict Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I don't know how many times a day I say those words to my ds10 and ds6. We're on day 34 and they still don't get it. Any suggestions to drive it home, instead of my just droning on and on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricia Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Not to rain on your parade but if you are referring to them "answering" a question from their school work "in a complete" sentence I have yet to accomplish that. Trying for 23 years and counting and 12 kids. Can't wait to read the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Yeah, when someone knows how to do that, please tell me too! One of my sons is getting better, but usually he does it right only when we're doing WWE. This is our first year to do it and we're doing level 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 The only thing that works here is enforcing re-writes of anything that isn't in a complete sentence. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Well... don't shoot at me... I have a son who has NO disabilities whatsoever, but simply does not put periods or punctuation at the ends of sentences. Since he turned 10 and has excellent scores testing and just doesn't stop to do this... I have him write "A sentence begins with a capital letter and ends with punctuation." (sometimes he writes ends with a period) And he does that 10 times before correcting his mistake. He does a MUCH better job with this now! And I'm not too much of a meany... some days I just say, "This is not a sentence." And he knows exactly what I mean and corrects quickly! So, if it were me and my child was not following specific directions with complete sentences and was completely capable, I would take the incorrect paper, give them a new one and have them write "A sentece expresses a complete thought." or "A sentence has a subject and an action." or "A sentence has a subject and a predicate." about 10 times and then give them the original paper to re-do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhM Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I don't know how many times a day I say those words to my ds10 and ds6. We're on day 34 and they still don't get it. Any suggestions to drive it home, instead of my just droning on and on? I feel like making a sign to hold up, or a tape to play, just to save my vocal c ords! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Last year, I did WWE 1 with my then 1st grader and I had to remind her every single time to answer me in a complete sentence. This year, I'm using WWE 2 with her and now I only have to remind her once at the beginning that she needs to answer everything in complete sentences. Huge progress, but it wasn't overnight. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 It may be a little much to ask a 6yo to speak or write in complete sentences every time. But the 10yo is developmentally capable barring any LD's. As a child, I always wanted to know why I was being asked to do a thing. Maybe if you explained your reasons for wanting complete sentences? I've told my kids that it is important never to place the burden of communication at the feet of your listener. Making sure we are understood is our own responsibility. It is good to practice now when they are children and the stakes are low. When communication becomes more difficult and they have adult responsibilities, it will be easier to do well in college, land a good job, etc, if they have a lot of practice putting things into words. My kids don't seem to fight me as hard when I explain my underlying logic to them. Maybe it helps when rules don't seem arbitrary. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elw_miller Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 In what way are their sentences incomplete? Capitalization issues? Punctuation? No subject? Starting the sentence with 'Because...'? What is the context? Sometimes the way questions are phrased encourages answering in incomplete sentences. (Who was the 14th president of the US? What is the capitol of Iowa?) Perhaps have them answer as if you suddenly lost the question and wouldn't understand what they were talking about unless they answered more clearly (in a complete, detailed sentence or paragraph). My 2nd grade teacher told me I couldn't use the word 'because' anymore to start my sentences. I had to figure out a more creative way to answer the 'why' questions. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn in OH Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well this thread has not been encouraging at all. I thought we had this problem because my children and 7 and 8 and it would work out as they got older. Thanks for bursting my bubble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well this thread has not been encouraging at all. I thought we had this problem because my children and 7 and 8 and it would work out as they got older. Thanks for bursting my bubble! LOL ditto! Thanks for the good ideas, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Take a paint stirrer/stick and tape a sign (5X 7) which reads, "Please respond using a complete sentence", and when your student speaks in fragments don't say a thing--just hold up the sign and give him/her a second chance (or third or fourth, etc.) I am not kidding about this. For those of you who may think this is rude, we do this all the time with math flash cards. You cannot continue teaching enthusiastically if you are so worn out from saying the SAME things over and over again. I have only 2 students, and so far they have caught on to the answer correctly part, but I can see how frustrating it would be to say the same thing numerous times. Hang in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 http://www.sfreading.com/resources/ghb.html How about some basic exercises designed to teach how to distinguish between complete and incomplete senences? (We've only done the first 2, so I don't know if the others contain them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenoraddict Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thanks for all the replies, even if some of them were less than encouraging...at least I had a good laugh. :001_smile: Just to be clear, I'm referring to having my children answer questions orally in a complete sentence (there it is again). It's not much of a problem in writing assignments, and frankly I'm beginning to believe that they are just being lazy and/or obstinate. It may be a little much to ask a 6yo to speak or write in complete sentences every time. But the 10yo is developmentally capable barring any LD's. As a child, I always wanted to know why I was being asked to do a thing. Maybe if you explained your reasons for wanting complete sentences? I've told my kids that it is important never to place the burden of communication at the feet of your listener. Making sure we are understood is our own responsibility. It is good to practice now when they are children and the stakes are low. When communication becomes more difficult and they have adult responsibilities, it will be easier to do well in college, land a good job, etc, if they have a lot of practice putting things into words. My kids don't seem to fight me as hard when I explain my underlying logic to them. Maybe it helps when rules don't seem arbitrary. Barb My 6yo is almost 7 and has been speaking in complete sentences - incessantly - seemingly since birth, so I know that developmentally he can do it. But, Barb, I really like your suggestion: it is important never to place the burden of communication at the feet of your listener. Making sure we are understood is our own responsibility. It is good to practice now when they are children and the stakes are low. When communication becomes more difficult and they have adult responsibilities, it will be easier to do well in college, land a good job, etc, if they have a lot of practice putting things into words. I'll lay that on them tomorrow and see how they respond...I'm cautiously optimistic. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Take a paint stirrer/stick and tape a sign (5X 7) which reads, "Please respond using a complete sentence", and when your student speaks in fragments don't say a thing--just hold up the sign and give him/her a second chance (or third or fourth, etc.) I am not kidding about this. I love it! :tongue_smilie: Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 How long had they been speaking in incomplete sentences? It takes a lot longer to break a habit than to establish it. I think you will just need to stick with it a lot longer. :001_smile: You could also speed up the process a bit by inflicting mild punishment: instead of having to say the sentence once, they need to repeat it ten times, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well, if they ever want to be on a reality tv show, they'll have to speak in complete sentences. You know: when the person on the show is sitting there speaking alone, directly to the camera? You know they're not just talking on their own. They've been asked questions: "How did it feel to eat the bug." "Eating the bug felt great! It was so tasty!" They don't just sit there and say, "Great! It was so tasty!" on camera. Well, I'm being silly, of course. But I do often wonder how often the producers (or whoever does this stuff) on reality tv shows have to say, "Please answer in a complete sentence for the camera. The viewers don't know the question." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well, I'm being silly, of course. But I do often wonder how often the producers (or whoever does this stuff) on reality tv shows have to say, "Please answer in a complete sentence for the camera. The viewers don't know the question." :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) The only thing that works here is enforcing re-writes of anything that isn't in a complete sentence. Laura ditto . . . it doesn't take many times. oops, now I see you mean orally. Edited October 1, 2009 by MomOfOneFunOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Mr. Morton is our complete sentence icon. Even for oral narration, if I hear a fragment I say, "who gave flowers to Pearl?" or "Mr. Morton what?" I use these phrases no matter what the fragment really was...I make it about Mr. Morton. I always refer back to Mr. Morton when I'm correcting them about complete sentences, and we all sing, "Mr. Morton is the subject of the sentence, and what the predicate says, he does." Then we get back to their lesson and try again. :001_huh: This is a tedious and silly method, to be sure, but my children have indeed learned the art of the complete sentence at ages 5, 9, 11, and 13. Mr. Morton gets all the credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Now that I realize the age and the situation... we did a couple of things that have helped. Similar to the popsicle stick/index card routine, we made a happy face on a popsicle stick and a frown face on one. I sat down with them and we practiced. I got to say the incomplete or complete sentence and they picked happy face (complete sentence) or frown face (incomplete). Once they realize the difference, you might continue on with a happy face stick when they answer to reinforce the correct sentence. I wouldn't give them a frown face for their answers, but instead ask them to try again. We did this and it did help us. When they got a little older, I still had (and I still have!) one who answers with very youngish answers (sounds like a 2nd grader is answering when he can choose a much more intelligent way of speaking). So, I started telling him "You have to start your answer with "____" and I gave him the word to begin with. So, I am thinking that you could start the child out and that stops them from starting with "because....". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 It helps if you, yourself, model the use of complete sentences consistently. "In a complete sentence," for example, isn't a complete sentence. We are big fans of SchoolHouse Rock, home of Mr. Morton, too. :001_smile: I like dmmosher's idea of a sign combined with Laura's idea of enforcing re-writes, or in your case, re-statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommy2be Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 It helps if you, yourself, model the use of complete sentences consistently. "In a complete sentence," for example, isn't a complete sentence. We are big fans of SchoolHouse Rock, home of Mr. Morton, too. :001_smile: I like dmmosher's idea of a sign combined with Laura's idea of enforcing re-writes, or in your case, re-statements. Hehe... I was giggling about this too, because the thread was kind of an example of what you meant. "In a complete sentence" is not a complete sentence... :D Just teasing, and I know you know that... but it was just kind of funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenoraddict Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 How long had they been speaking in incomplete sentences? It takes a lot longer to break a habit than to establish it. I think you will just need to stick with it a lot longer. :001_smile: You could also speed up the process a bit by inflicting mild punishment: instead of having to say the sentence once, they need to repeat it ten times, for example. This is our first year using narration, so they've only been doing this kind of thing for 7 weeks...it's not like it's been years or anything. I do think that I'll have to inflict a mild punishment, like multiple repeats or writing the answer, in order to see any results. Ouch on the "model it yourself" comments...I really don't think it would've made any difference if I had been saying, "Please use a complete sentence." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I don't know how many times a day I say those words to my ds10 and ds6. We're on day 34 and they still don't get it. Any suggestions to drive it home, instead of my just droning on and on? Your ds6 is young to "get it." We don't speak in complete sentences much of the time, especially in response to questions. "How are you?" Fine (not I am fine). "What's your name?" Mary (Not "My name is Mary." ). "How many continents are there?" "Seven." So it's unnatural--you're asking them to go against their lifelong language training! Assume that it will take quite a long time and teach step by step. The FLL does a great job of teaching this orally. With written work, HELP them for the first several weeks by sitting with them while they the first two words of the sentence. You give it to them at first, then ask them what the first two words should be. Then, you should gradually be able to fade out. For beginning capitalization and ending punctuation, I use the reminder, "Tip-tap." That's a cue to tap the end of the sentence with their pencil (checking for punctuation), then the beginning (checking for a capital.) I do this with kids I tutor and it sounds kind of fun and they do it cheerfully. It is also giving them a cue to process the issue on their own rather than me telling them directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 My EX, who has a masters degree, still does this. I used to edit his grant proposals and would :banghead: at the horrid butchering he called "English". He'd capitalize works randomly, his verbs and nouns never agreed, and for some reason, he refused to use plurals when needed. So, I can offer no hope. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara K Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I'm waiting for the magic solution myself. DS 9 has no problems but DD 7 almost never gets this one. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Are you making them use complete sentences for every answer? (IMO you should not, only for their official narration.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Commiseration only. Today is the end of our first grading term. We tested various things all day. I told my crew, grades 5 through 9, "complete sentences". Given their ages and grades, I also threatened to fail anyone who did not comply. I would not do this with a peer group of 6 and 10, however. At least not the threat of fail part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenoraddict Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share Posted October 3, 2009 I think I should clarify...I'm not talking about anything written. DS10 does fine with that, and DSalmost7 is really where he should be developmentally with writing. I'm talking about when we do something like Story of the World and I ask the comprehension questions at the end of the lesson. At the beginning of the question time, I'll say, "Remember to answer me in a complete sentence," and then I'll ask the first question. I think it's safe to say that they never answer in a complete sentence...even just seconds after I've reminded them to do it! So today, when DS6 did this kind of exercise with WWE, I told him why we need to answer in complete sentences, and that he would have to repeat the answer 10 times if he didn't. Sure enough, his first answer was not in a complete sentence. I guess what I'm hearing from you guys is to persevere and maybe it'll get better...:001_unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 My son is 10 and I told him today if his answers were not in complete sentences I was ripping the paper to shreds and he was going to have to do it over again. He was shocked! I was actually shocked I said it but it seemed to have the desired effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenoraddict Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Here's what worked, finally (!): I remind them - once - at the beginning of the questioning to answer in a complete sentence. If they begin to answer incompletely, I give them The Look. If that doesn't stop them, and they answer incompletely, I make them stand up and say the whole - complete - answer 5 times. They usually laugh through it, but my point is made and they don't do it again...that day, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 And why in the world would someone want to encourage a child to speak more? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose in BC Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 No suggestions, just glad to hear I'm not alone. I thought my kids had a special disease prohibiting them from remembering to write "in a complete sentence". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenoraddict Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 And why in the world would someone want to encourage a child to speak more? :DThey're gonna do it, so they may as well do it correctly. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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