Less Fabulous HS article

[smrtmama]

The folks at Jezebel magazine sure did get defensive about the Salon article, so much so, that they had to criticize it using some of the same complaints that the author of the Salon article mentions receiving on a regular basis:

 

http://jezebel.com/5369436/why-are-home+schoolers-so-annoying

[Jean in Newcastle]

She doesn't seem to understand that it is the public school system that is flawed, not everyone who utilizes it. Most of the people I know who use the public school system work very hard to lessen the negative impacts and to make it work for their children. And coincidentally, many of the people who are defensive over homeschoolers choosing to opt out of the public school are often vocal about how American public education (or another countries for that matter) is failing the student.

[elegantlion]

Boy, reading all these articles and comments, right & wrong, black & white, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah...just makes me want to go outside and hang my freak flag from our really tall flagpole in the front yard.

 

What's that quote...Never have so many said so little about something that they have no clue about, or something like that. :lol:

[Audrey]

Mmhmm... You know, if you are going to write an article critiquing anything, once you use words like "sh*tty" you've lost my regard for your opinion... unless of course you are critiquing toilets.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

" But maybe home-schooling parents like O'Hehir can teach others something about putting play and exploration back in learning. In order to do this, though, a movement that can seem very isolationist would have to become more communal — and both sides would have to quit insulting each other."

 

Actually, I agree with the final two sentences! ;)

[stripe]

This somehow reminds me of the effort to brand Obama as snooty and not a "common man" because he was seen in public (gasp!) eating arugula.

 

There is just so much hostility in the world.

 

I think it's sad that most children's only social outlet is at school, leaving people baffled as to what other children with whom they could be spending their time.

 

Maybe some homeschoolers are snooty and superior, and that could be thrown by the wayside. But people who are putting their kids in such and such a preschool so that they can go to such and such a college are equally silly. People are just really competitive and everyone thinks their kids are geniuses -- so that's really less to do with where a child is educated and more to do with the American psycho, er I mean, psyche.

[CatMomof3]

Mmhmm... You know, if you are going to write an article critiquing anything, once you use words like "sh*tty" you've lost my regard for your opinion... unless of course you are critiquing toilets.

:lol::iagree:

[kalanamak]

just makes me want to go outside and hang my freak flag from our really tall flagpole in the front yard.

 

:lol:

 

I haven't heard "freak flag" in years.

I am reminded of the letter to Click and Clack the Tappet Brothers:

 

Posit the question: Do two people who don't know what they are talking about know more or less than one person who doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

I think we just answered it.

[kalanamak]

Mmhmm... You know, if you are going to write an article critiquing anything, once you use words like "sh*tty" you've lost my regard for your opinion... unless of course you are critiquing toilets.

 

But didn't you read the manual? Just one such word in an article makes it "real" or "gritty" or "gutsy" or that it "pulls no punches". More than one is over the top, but just one....well, it got our attention didn't it?

[lionfamily1999]

She seems to close thinking that homeschooling is great... if only we could bring it to the masses...

 

At first she was pretty hostile, but it's a blog so I wouldn't expect fantastic writing or even one fluid piece that makes sense beginning to end. Instead, it looks like a free flowing thought piece and in the end, she sounds wistfully in favor of what homeschooling does, even if she still harbors a grudge that only a few get to do it.

[I talk to the trees]

Mmhmm... You know, if you are going to write an article critiquing anything, once you use words like "sh*tty" you've lost my regard for your opinion... unless of course you are critiquing toilets.

:lol: An excellent point!

 

 

-Robin

[teamturner]

Mmhmm... You know, if you are going to write an article critiquing anything, once you use words like "sh*tty" you've lost my regard for your opinion... unless of course you are critiquing toilets.

 

 

:lol::lol:

 

:iagree: I thought the same thing!

 

I don't understand where some of these people think we are going to expose our dc to such diverse socio-economic groups when our local schools' enrollments are based on the neighborhoods you live in. That's pretty much the same socio-economic group for everyone in the neighborhood. You would definitely see a wide variety of religions, but religions are taboo in the public schools pretty much, well at least Christianity is.

 

And learning to deal with difficult people, well there's difficult people in our own homeschooling groups. My boys have dealt with bullying at our co-op (just once and it was dealt with immediately), on a public playground, and at our church. There's real world "socialization" experiences in all places of society, not just at public schools.

[greensummervillian]

That was an interesting read. I hope I am not smug about my choice to homeschool, but I don't know how it appears to the outside observer. Home education is not something everyone can do for a variety of reasons. If I were not fortunate enough to have a husband who is willing to go along with my wacky plans and if we didn't have enough money even with scrimping and saving, I would be very jealous of you all and your lucky children. I can see how as an outsider, one might wonder, "What makes your kids so much more special and deserving than ours?"

 

So what can we do to bring what we have to the masses? I know in our household, what we do is so far away from what schools do that I wouldn't even know where to begin. I bet in all your homes it's different than mine in a hundred different ways. That's the beauty of homeschooling. We can do it the way that works best for the individual. Is it even possible to get that kind of unique experience for each child in a institutional setting? How close to the ideal could we get? How would we do it.

 

I'd love to hear everybody's thoughts.

[flyingmommy]

How can we bring homeschooling to the masses? Hmmm.....tough question. The first thing that comes to my mind is that most people, or at least the ones that I know, choose to homeschool out of concern for their child's well being. Maybe their child had special needs that weren't being met. Maybe public school had failed to teach their child anything. Perhaps they wanted their children to have a more religion-based education. Maybe they had a horrible childhood experience in public school and didn't want their children to suffer as they had. No matter what their reasoning, at the heart of it is concern for their child. I am not, by any means, saying that people who send their children to public school don't care about them. I am saying that people who choose homeschooling are doing something very difficult that they really don't have to do.

 

Having grown up in the public school system and graduated one of my children from that same system, I can tell you there is little there that is done for the child's well being. Perhaps it is different elsewhere. I hope so. Here, pretty much every policy is in effect to make things easier for the adults. Or to prevent the school system from being sued. Certainly, there are always teachers who truly care for the children they teach, but there always seem to be far more who don't. I am trying to be as fair as possible, so please don't flame me. :) I can only speak for my own little corner of the universe.

 

Until there is a genuine concern for the well being of children, I can't see how the benefits of homeschooling can ever be brought to the public school system. There seems to be a lot of concern over budgets, and test scores, and looking good politically. Kids always seem to be the pawns in these power struggles.

 

One thing I do know for certain.....there are no easy answers. Or easy solutions.

 

J

[Impish]

In the comment section:

It just occurred to me- this post has been forwarded through some kind of homeschooling email chain! (I guess the idea we have *gasp* online group(s) to chat in is just too much to believe *snort*)

That's why so many new commentators are showing up in just this one post to say how horrific public schools are and how brilliant their child is!

 

It also explains why so many commentators are misusing the reply function

 

Gee, whatever gave her THAT idea? :lol::lol::lol:

 

I got assigned the nic 'RileyGoldfinch' btw. :D

[asta]

She seems to close thinking that homeschooling is great... if only we could bring it to the masses...

 

At first she was pretty hostile, but it's a blog so I wouldn't expect fantastic writing or even one fluid piece that makes sense beginning to end. Instead, it looks like a free flowing thought piece and in the end, she sounds wistfully in favor of what homeschooling does, even if she still harbors a grudge that only a few get to do it.

 

This is something that has always confounded me.

 

My family has given up a *lot* of what our "contemporaries" view as *essential* to be able to homeschool. We have one car. We go camping instead of going to exotic places. We rarely go out to eat. We wear clothes until they die. We're bargain shoppers and live for "the deal". We're all about "classic vs trendy" and "buy good, once vs buy cheap, often".

 

Do we have *some* nice things? Yes. But we are also only 3. That was luck (or not) of the draw, not planned. It is admittedly easier to budget for 3 than for 6.

 

I have a sibling who is currently unemployed yet still has two kids in an exclusive private school in a very expensive city. How does that add up?

 

I think everyone makes choices that they feel they can live with. Do I honestly believe my sibling's kids would be better off at home? No. They would be ignored. What bothers me is the underlying concept of whydidyouhavekidsifthemerepresenceofthembothersyousomuch.

 

And that our society ends up paying the price.

 

 

a

[lionfamily1999]

This is something that has always confounded me.

 

My family has given up a *lot* of what our "contemporaries" view as *essential* to be able to homeschool. We have one car. We go camping instead of going to exotic places. We rarely go out to eat. We wear clothes until they die. We're bargain shoppers and live for "the deal". We're all about "classic vs trendy" and "buy good, once vs buy cheap, often".

 

Do we have *some* nice things? Yes. But we are also only 3. That was luck (or not) of the draw, not planned. It is admittedly easier to budget for 3 than for 6.

 

I have a sibling who is currently unemployed yet still has two kids in an exclusive private school in a very expensive city. How does that add up?

 

I think everyone makes choices that they feel they can live with. Do I honestly believe my sibling's kids would be better off at home? No. They would be ignored. What bothers me is the underlying concept of whydidyouhavekidsifthemerepresenceofthembothersyousomuch.

 

And that our society ends up paying the price.

 

 

a

I agree. The sacrifices (and the majority of the rewards) are ignored, or else they're just not willing to make them. Hey, I'd love to be able to afford anything, but it's more important, to me, that my dcs get a good education. I've met people like the blogger, people that feel I should be teaching their kids at the local ps. They don't seem to think my dcs DESERVE a better education than their own. Now, if I had my dcs in private schools that would not matter, but the idea that they're learning (and so much more!) at home... it actually makes them irritated. Like I'm taking something from their children?!?

[Cammie]

But it's possible I could have learned these lessons another way, and, frankly, I'm jealous of kids who have the opportunity. Now I work (at home, no less) in a job that rewards creativity more than obedience, and it's quite possible that going to museums and building puzzle maps would have prepared me better for my current career. It's also possible that these activities might help kids grow into the kind of nonconformist adults who are capable of reforming a world that clearly has a lot of problems.

 

 

I thought she sounded very supportive of homeschooling. She admits she is jealous of kids who are homeschooled and that homeschooling would have better prepared her for her current profession. She even admits that homeschool kids might be the kids who grow up to change the world! All in all, not a bad review!

[calandalsmom]

I think she is exactly right: homeschoolers are annoying and self satisfied and irritatingly sanctimonious sometimes. Even me. LOL

[elw_miller]

I thought she sounded very supportive of homeschooling. She admits she is jealous of kids who are homeschooled and that homeschooling would have better prepared her for her current profession. She even admits that homeschool kids might be the kids who grow up to change the world! All in all, not a bad review!

 

:iagree:

 

"Why are homeschoolers so annoying?" she asks, and then answers, indirectly, that in many ways we're right. The green-eyed monster can be frustrating.;)

 

Her article does mix up some snootiness by the homeschooling author ("mommy and daddy get back to their ultra-important lives") and legitimate concerns ("bullying, arbitrary systems of order and discipline, age-inappropriate standards of behavior, and the hegemony of corporatized kid culture.").

 

I haven't read any of the comments over there, but I hope people are not reacting with outrage. She seems interested in the possibilities of homeschooling; I hope the responses encourage her to investigate further and to not judge the whole by the part.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Mmhmm... You know, if you are going to write an article critiquing anything, once you use words like "sh*tty" you've lost my regard for your opinion... unless of course you are critiquing toilets.

 

:iagree::iagree: :D

[Garga]

I don't see this as a negative article at all.

 

She quoted some comments from the father that (while they were true!) came across as snooty. And she expressed her visceral reaction to the snooty comments.

 

Then, in the course of the article, she thought over what he said, and conceded that he was right on many counts.

 

Then at the end, she wistfully mused about whether or not the best of homeschooling could be used to help more children who are in school. Maybe the homeschoolers do know something that can be used to reform ps, she wondered.

 

I didn't find the article to be negative toward homeschoolers at all, once the entire article was read.

[kdeno]

Mmhmm... You know, if you are going to write an article critiquing anything, once you use words like "sh*tty" you've lost my regard for your opinion... unless of course you are critiquing toilets.

 

I fully agree

 

Kari

[Holly IN]

 

 

Maybe some homeschoolers are snooty and superior, and that could be thrown by the wayside. But people who are putting their kids in such and such a preschool so that they can go to such and such a college are equally silly. People are just really competitive and everyone thinks their kids are geniuses -- so that's really less to do with where a child is educated and more to do with the American psycho, er I mean, psyche.

 

My sil is like this. I am the only homeschooler on my side of the family. This particular sil blurted out while the other sil and I were talking about the issues in our school district (We live in the same district while the other one lives in the city). Well, this city sil blurted that her child is in an A+ school. It was an odd moment which made the other sil and I uncomfortable because I homeschool and the other one goes to country bumpkin school with a lot of issues. So it was quiet a smack in the face for both of us. Of course the city sil have said out loud that I am pretending to be snooty and elitist because I do not send my kids to PS. Go figure!!! So I disagree with the author's viewpoint because it goes BOTH ways!!! I have met some really snooty homeschoolers and lots of great ones. Vice versa!

 

 

 

In regards to the homeschool parents in the article: While we are not snooty (do not think the homeschool parents in the article is snooty either), the reasons they homeschool is very close to our reasons. I do not see them as snooty but very legitamite (sp?) reasons. Why can't we have our reasons without them being thrown in our faces? Just like PS have their reasons for putting their kids in the public schools.

 

The article was done in poor taste in my opinion.

 

Holly

 

Holly

Edited September 29, 2009 by Holly IN
forgot to comment about the article

[sbgrace]

I don't see this as a negative article at all.

 

She quoted some comments from the father that (while they were true!) came across as snooty. And she expressed her visceral reaction to the snooty comments.

 

Then, in the course of the article, she thought over what he said, and conceded that he was right on many counts.

 

Then at the end, she wistfully mused about whether or not the best of homeschooling could be used to help more children who are in school. Maybe the homeschoolers do know something that can be used to reform ps, she wondered.

 

I didn't find the article to be negative toward homeschoolers at all, once the entire article was read.

 

I agree. I didn't find it negative either but maybe (to a similar extent as the other article did really) rushed to conclusions about groups of people. I'm wondering if those that found it so negative read to the end?

[Holly IN]

I agree. I didn't find it negative either but maybe (to a similar extent as the other article did really) rushed to conclusions about groups of people. I'm wondering if those that found it so negative read to the end?

 

I did read to the end. The negatives I am talking about is her portrayal of the parents themselves. She had no call to say they are being snooty because of their reasons.

 

The author doesn't realize that the NEA runs the public schools so basically it is a lose lose situation in regards to public schools. I have been accused by certain relatives that I am wanting to get rid of public schools. Not true! I just do not want my kids to go there. The system needs to change. The NEA needs to stay out of the schools business. Private corporation needs to get involved in it to better train our future workers/economist. However the author wants us to go in to the schools and show them differently. That is a very big dream!!

 

 

 

Holly

[johnandtinagilbert]

I actually found her article okay. Perhaps grabbing her references a bit shy of their intent, but overall, I thought she did recognize some benefits of home schooling.

 

I read the original article and the wife's blog and although I agree with what they said RE ideas about public schools and the variety of home schoolers, I kinda felt it to be a bit demeaning for those who choose a more structured education. I guess that's the angle for their family, and hey, more power to them.

 

I also have to add, although sounding snarky, pompous, and like an old lady, but I'd be interested to hear about their home schooling should they continue in say...6 years. Personally, my views, understanding and style of home schooling have evolved over time. I was all about the fun and games early on, now, I'm still about those things, but also very much about academic structure. Perhaps an interesting spin off thread!

[johnandtinagilbert]

I did read to the end. The negatives I am talking about is her portrayal of the parents themselves. She had no call to say they are being snooty because of their reasons.

 

The author doesn't realize that the NEA runs the public schools so basically it is a lose lose situation in regards to public schools. I have been accused by certain relatives that I am wanting to get rid of public schools. Not true! I just do not want my kids to go there. The system needs to change. The NEA needs to stay out of the schools business. Private corporation needs to get involved in it to better train our future workers/economist. However the author wants us to go in to the schools and show them differently. That is a very big dream!!

 

 

 

Holly

Can you imagine the looks on faces should we enter an NEA meeting and tell them we'd like to show them how to have fun and teach at the same time, or teach the children while having fun....mob attack! :lol:

 

Not knocking individual teachers, but I hear what you're saying about the union.

[momto2Cs]

While I thought the article started out badly, she had a really positive tone in the last couple of paragraphs.

[lionfamily1999]

I did read to the end. The negatives I am talking about is her portrayal of the parents themselves. She had no call to say they are being snooty because of their reasons.

 

The author doesn't realize that the NEA runs the public schools so basically it is a lose lose situation in regards to public schools. I have been accused by certain relatives that I am wanting to get rid of public schools. Not true! I just do not want my kids to go there. The system needs to change. The NEA needs to stay out of the schools business. Private corporation needs to get involved in it to better train our future workers/economist. However the author wants us to go in to the schools and show them differently. That is a very big dream!!

 

 

 

Holly

I understood what she meant, however. It's the same problem you can have with saying, 'oh no, I don't mind if you smoke.' Someone asks why YOU don't smoke and you say, 'are you kidding me?!? That stuff'll kill you!'

 

So, it's okay for everyone else to smoke...

 

Not to say they were snooty, but I'm learning to be very careful about how I explain our reasons for hs. Why? Because many of my friends don't and I don't want them to feel inferior or that I'm being a snot.

 

 

 

Yeah, the idea that hsers could change the ps system is a pipe dream. She seems to know that, but it's easier to dislike hsing if you believe they are part of the ps' problems. IOW, if they weren't hsing they could be raising the bar for ALL of the children at the ps.

 

IOW, if they didn't have that (after having figured out how well hs can work), then they'd have no reason to think we're wrong. As long as we're wrong, they don't have to seriously consider hsing.