Foul language in College Textbook??? Where to draw the line?

[Pam L.]

Hello,

 

My 19 year old ds recently started community college. After a couple of weeks he was shocked to find vulgar language in one particular textbook for a career guidance class. This book was written to describe several different occupations. The preface was loaded with offensive vulgar words, and upon flipping through the book, it was throughout.

 

Ds brought this to our attention as he was bothered by it. It wasn't so much the fact the language was in there as was the quantity - most of us can gloss over an occasional inappropriate word, and certainly no ears are immune from such things when we go out in public. It was the idea that this was "literature" to better his education.

 

Because of this textbook, and a couple other reasons (namely catching the instructor in a lie) ds chose to drop this class before the deadline.

 

Anybody else ever experience anything like this?

 

Pam

[Murphy101]

For the life of me I can't understand why it would be in a career guidance class!

 

A literature or even a history class - yeah sometimes it's the context of what is being studied.

 

But that class? Makes to contribution that I can imagine.

[Janet in WA]

 

Because of this textbook, and a couple other reasons (namely catching the instructor in a lie) ds chose to drop this class before the deadline.

You know, I'm sure this would be hard for your son to do, but he really should do more than just drop the class. He should write a letter to the president of the college, and anyone else who seems appropriate, telling them exactly why. There's a good chance they don't know all that goes on in a class on their campus, including the content of texts chosen by the instructors. They deserve for their students to keep them informed of problems so they have an opportunity to address them.

[Aubrey]

I had a prof or 2 in CC that seemed to think it was their duty to "unshelter" us.

 

Ick.

 

My worst nightmare was a philosophy class--I've had plenty since then that were fine, but this was a push-the-envelopes-liberal-agenda class w/ some very angry people.

 

Career guidance? If the right guy's teaching, yep, probably so. I'm surprised it's in the textbook, but not shocked.

[creekland]

You know, I'm sure this would be hard for your son to do, but he really should do more than just drop the class. He should write a letter to the president college of the college telling him exactly why. There's a good chance he doesn't know all that goes on in a class on their campus, including the content of texts chosen by the instructors. They deserve for their students to keep them informed of problems so they have an opportunity to address them.

 

:iagree:

[mommaduck]

You know, I'm sure this would be hard for your son to do, but he really should do more than just drop the class. He should write a letter to the president of the college, and anyone else who seems appropriate, telling them exactly why. There's a good chance they don't know all that goes on in a class on their campus, including the content of texts chosen by the instructors. They deserve for their students to keep them informed of problems so they have an opportunity to address them.

Unfortunately staff talks to each other and they generally side with each other. This would just put a target on her kid.

[Pam L.]

You know, I'm sure this would be hard for your son to do, but he really should do more than just drop the class. He should write a letter to the president of the college, and anyone else who seems appropriate, telling them exactly why. There's a good chance they don't know all that goes on in a class on their campus, including the content of texts chosen by the instructors. They deserve for their students to keep them informed of problems so they have an opportunity to address them.

 

 

Yes, I did try to encourage him to bring it to the dean's attention. He is mulling that over, and I am not sure what he will do with that one. Several years ago, when I attended college, I was successful in resolving a problem with an instructor. I have also heard this particular cc is student-friendly in terms of resolving issues.

[Janet in WA]

 

Unfortunately staff talks to each other and they generally side with each other. This would just put a target on her kid.

I'm sure that staff talk to one another. I can't speak for every cc, but at ours, supporting the students and helping them succeed is the #1 priority, and that is made clear at every level. There wouldn't be an atmosphere that would allow much of a target to be put on a student. For one thing, the student's communication and identity would be kept confidential. If this were not the case, I wouldn't want to go to that cc anyway. And I'd be reporting the problem to a higher level. Edited September 28, 2009 by Janet in WA

[EKS]

I can't imagine any reason for foul language to be in any textbook except if it is illustrating something specific or is a part of a quotation.

[mommaduck]

I'm sure that staff talk to one another. I can't speak for every cc, but at ours, supporting the students and helping them succeed is the #1 priority, and that is made clear at every level. There wouldn't be an atmosphere that would allow much of a target to be put on a student. For one thing, the student's communication and identity would be kept confidential. If this were not the case, I wouldn't want to go to that cc anyway. And I'd be reporting the problem to a higher level.

 

My legal professor told of when she went to the dean of a well known college and it made matters worse. She also warned us that the same talking amoungst teachers happens at our school and every other school. There is no confidentiality agreement when a student complains.

[WishboneDawn]

What is the textbook? Now I'm curious.

[Pamela H in Texas]

How incredibly odd to find foul language in that type of text. I would bring it up. I mean, I might just leave and leave well enough alone if it were the instructor, but the text? I can't imagine MOST people wouldn't find it odd to find that language THERE.

[Garga]

A textbook? I am surprised. However, I recently took some college classes (never did before my 30s) and took an English literature class. The instructor gave us 10 books to choose from to write a paper.

 

I love reading so much that I decided to read all 10 of them. Out of the 5 I started reading, 4 of them were very offensive to me. And I'm not ridiculously, easily offended--I have a normal level of getting offended :). There was all sorts of nastiness in those books. I mean, I know that a literature class tries to find "deep, meaningful" books for the students to read, but the professor seemed to find the most offensive books in all of English Literature and give us those to read. (I only finished 2 of them and then gave up on the rest.)

 

And being a mom in her 30's at the time I took the class, I was deeply disturbed that the 18 year olds I was in class with had to slog through that mess. I wondered if their parents knew. (Some of the parents wouldn't have cared, but I think that others would have!) I agree with that PP who said that some professors seem to think it's their job to unshelter their students.

 

Ugh.

[HollyinNNV]

I find this problem runs rampant in the humanities courses, especially "English Literature." This is one reason we are not doing CC classes in high school. There are plenty of wonderful humanities materials that aren't filth.

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother wasting my time complaining. You know....educational freedom and all that jazz.

Holly

[Happy]

A textbook? I am surprised. However, I recently took some college classes (never did before my 30s) and took an English literature class. The instructor gave us 10 books to choose from to write a paper.

 

I love reading so much that I decided to read all 10 of them. Out of the 5 I started reading, 4 of them were very offensive to me. And I'm not ridiculously, easily offended--I have a normal level of getting offended :). There was all sorts of nastiness in those books. I mean, I know that a literature class tries to find "deep, meaningful" books for the students to read, but the professor seemed to find the most offensive books in all of English Literature and give us those to read. (I only finished 2 of them and then gave up on the rest.)

 

And being a mom in her 30's at the time I took the class, I was deeply disturbed that the 18 year olds I was in class with had to slog through that mess. I wondered if their parents knew. (Some of the parents wouldn't have cared, but I think that others would have!) I agree with that PP who said that some professors seem to think it's their job to unshelter their students.

 

Ugh.

 

Oh, so my high school World Lit teacher now teaches in college? ;)

 

I hit the same problem in that advanced high school class. I'm not easily offended, but we were assigned to read short stories with a decidedly violent s*xual bent. It was gross. And...I haven't been in that class in well over thirty years, but I still get a slimy feeling when I think of the books I had to read. That's not what GOOD Literature is all about. Now that I've been a homeschool mom for a decade, I understand how a good world lit class would be structured.

 

Sorry for the rabbit trail. I detest profanity. If no one speaks up, the teacher and school will assume all is well.

[Janet in WA]

 

My legal professor told of when she went to the dean of a well known college and it made matters worse.

I'm just curious...what's a "legal" professor?

[hornblower]

OTOH, I don't have a problem with swearing. I'd need to see the examples to see if I'd be bothered by it. Gratuitious swearing can be boring just because it's often linked to bad writing but it doesn't generally bother me.

I'm more likely to have problems with misogyny, racism and homophobia in literature than with vulgar language.....

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I'm just curious...what's a "legal" professor?

 

 

Probably a professor of a law class or legal studies. Like saying "my English professor or my nursing professor"

[mommaduck]

Probably a professor of a law class or legal studies. Like saying "my English professor or my nursing professor"

Exactly. She's an attorney that teaches law and other legal studies.

[Janet in WA]

 

Exactly. She's an attorney that teaches law and other legal studies.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've never heard a law professor called a "legal" professor.

[mommaduck]

Thanks for clearing that up. I've never heard a law professor called a "legal" professor.

I'm taking a variety of courses with a variety of teachers. I'm not certain what anyone else calls them, but that is how we refer to her here.

[Phred]

Hello,

 

My 19 year old ds recently started community college. After a couple of weeks he was shocked to find vulgar language in one particular textbook for a career guidance class. This book was written to describe several different occupations. The preface was loaded with offensive vulgar words, and upon flipping through the book, it was throughout.

 

Ds brought this to our attention as he was bothered by it. It wasn't so much the fact the language was in there as was the quantity - most of us can gloss over an occasional inappropriate word, and certainly no ears are immune from such things when we go out in public. It was the idea that this was "literature" to better his education.

 

Because of this textbook, and a couple other reasons (namely catching the instructor in a lie) ds chose to drop this class before the deadline.

 

Anybody else ever experience anything like this?

 

Pam

I had to drop a class before the deadline in order to remove myself from nonsense once...

 

But I'd be highly curious. What words could they possibly have needed to include in a textbook and in what context? I simply can't imagine a reason to use profanity in any teaching setting other than creative writing.

[Ibbygirl]

I had a prof or 2 in CC that seemed to think it was their duty to "unshelter" us.

 

Ick.

 

My worst nightmare was a philosophy class--I've had plenty since then that were fine, but this was a push-the-envelopes-liberal-agenda class w/ some very angry people.

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree: This happened to me also in community college. I personally think some of those prof's needed meds. They were nuts. Both of my psychology profs used to cuss like a sailors. And my one history teacher had a chip on his shoulder the size of Rhode Island. He was one of the bitterest people I've ever come across and it colored everything in his teaching. ick is right!

Edited September 28, 2009 by Ibbygirl

[ThatCyndiGirl]

JMHO, but....I really think that at college age kids should be able to handle some cursing.

 

I'm actually very surprised that an adult is so up in arms about a curse word in a textbook. I makes me wonder if this is the same person who will hear someone say 'Hell' at work and say, "ooh, he just said the H word!"

 

 

I'm not saying this to make fun of the OP's adult child, just saying that, at adult age I'm shocked that this is this much of an issue.

 

 

I would NOT recommend speaking to the Dean/writing a letter, etc. What a way to be branded as a whiner!

 

(And, yes, I agree that curse words are unecessary in most contexts!)

[Janet in WA]

 

My legal professor told of when she went to the dean of a well known college and it made matters worse. She also warned us that the same talking amoungst teachers happens at our school and every other school. There is no confidentiality agreement when a student complains.

You know, I can't help it. I just have to comment on the irony (at best) of a professor advising a student not to complain about a professor. Kind of like your attorney advising you to never complain to the bar about your attorney. Edited September 28, 2009 by Janet in WA

[Happy]

JMHO, but....I really think that at college age kids should be able to handle some cursing.

 

I'm actually very surprised that an adult is so up in arms about a curse word in a textbook. I makes me wonder if this is the same person who will hear someone say 'Hell' at work and say, "ooh, he just said the H word!"

 

 

I'm not saying this to make fun of the OP's adult child, just saying that, at adult age I'm shocked that this is this much of an issue.

 

 

I would NOT recommend speaking to the Dean/writing a letter, etc. What a way to be branded as a whiner!

 

(And, yes, I agree that curse words are unecessary in most contexts!)

 

The OP said the book was 'loaded' with vulgar words through out. That makes a difference to me. It's not just one or two words scattered about.

[katilac]

Okay, you really must share more, you have everyone curious!

 

Career guidance text, check. What type of words, and in what context? Sample dialogue? Chapter titles - - get an effin' job?

 

Hmmm, I read your post again, and it refers to this being "literature." Now I'm really confused, :D. A lit book in a career guidance class?

 

More info, please. I can't decide with what we know now.

[Pretty in Pink]

Yes, I'm confused. Can you give specific examples? Can you tell us the specific text you are referring to?

[smrtmama]

JMHO, but....I really think that at college age kids should be able to handle some cursing.

 

I'm actually very surprised that an adult is so up in arms about a curse word in a textbook. I makes me wonder if this is the same person who will hear someone say 'Hell' at work and say, "ooh, he just said the H word!"

 

 

I'm not saying this to make fun of the OP's adult child, just saying that, at adult age I'm shocked that this is this much of an issue.

 

 

I would NOT recommend speaking to the Dean/writing a letter, etc. What a way to be branded as a whiner!

 

 

 

I agree completely. An adult (and that's what a college student is) should be able to handle cursing. Welcome to the adult world, where people will say and do things that you don't like. Part of being an adult is maintaining your character and dignity, even when other don't. You won't get to walk away from work because a coworker swears or cause a scene in the streets because you hear someone cursing on her cell phone. Let this be a lesson to your child about how not everyone has the same values and morals as you, but how you can stick to your beliefs even when presented with things you find inappropriate. The book doesn't make your child USE the swear words.

[Murphy101]

JMHO, but....I really think that at college age kids should be able to handle some cursing.

 

I'm actually very surprised that an adult is so up in arms about a curse word in a textbook. I makes me wonder if this is the same person who will hear someone say 'Hell' at work and say, "ooh, he just said the H word!"

 

I'm not saying this to make fun of the OP's adult child, just saying that, at adult age I'm shocked that this is this much of an issue.

 

 

I would NOT recommend speaking to the Dean/writing a letter, etc. What a way to be branded as a whiner!

 

(And, yes, I agree that curse words are unecessary in most contexts!)

 

Oh I don't know... much of "classic" literature has things that are inappropriate, vulgar, to down right filth if not in actual wording then certainly in description and or theme/plot and characters. And I've read a LOT of it.

 

I think in that context, I might not have an issue with it. Not because I like it, but because that's part of reading different authors, times, genres, and so forth.

 

And the occassional slur in class or in a class text outside of a literature/history subject wouldn't bother me either.

 

BUT if a text that is supposedly for career building is riddled with it - then quite frankly I'd be bothered by that for several reasons. Not the least of which is that a class teaching anything about career building should be professional in nature and professionals usually do not sling cuss words about on a regular basis when working on tbuilding their career! And on a minor note, a text done so poorly beings into question the value of the class and the instructor who would use such low-grade materials.

 

I doubt I'd complain unless asked. And even then it would be a basic this is why I didn't think this course worth taking, not in a offended manner.

 

Okay, you really must share more, you have everyone curious!

 

Career guidance text, check. What type of words, and in what context? Sample dialogue? Chapter titles - - get an effin' job?

 

Hmmm, I read your post again, and it refers to this being "literature." Now I'm really confused, :D. A lit book in a career guidance class?

 

More info, please. I can't decide with what we know now.

 

:iagree:

[mommaduck]

You know, I can't help it. I just have to comment on the irony (at best) of a professor advising a student not to complain about a professor. Kind of like your attorney advising you to never complain to the bar about your attorney.

It'd be ironic if she was one of the teachers that people in the student body have actually had an issue with. She's one of the ones that none of us have had an issue with.

[Janet in WA]

 

It'd be ironic if she was one of the teachers that people in the student body have actually had an issue with. She's one of the ones that none of us have had an issue with.

Nope, to me it's still ironic.

[Murphy101]

Nope, to me it's still ironic.

 

yeah gotta admit it's ironic to me too.:D

 

doesn't mean she isn't right and or untrue.

[Janet in WA]

yeah gotta admit it's ironic to me too.:D

 

doesn't mean she isn't right and or untrue.

Exactly. I was just coming back to add something like that. Actually, I love irony.

[WishboneDawn]

The OP said the book was 'loaded' with vulgar words through out. That makes a difference to me. It's not just one or two words scattered about.

 

I'm sort of wondering what the text was and what the words were. Some people find words I use everyday with no second thought to be swearing.

 

Without the actual text and words in question I'm finding it a little hard to get worked up over this one.

[kalanamak]

JMHO, but....I really think that at college age kids should be able to handle some cursing.

 

:iagree: in literature. No need whatsoever in a preface for a text on guidance counseling. Some idiot thought that rolling in the dirt would some how raise his/her students.

Edited September 28, 2009 by kalanamak

[amygabrielle]

Seriously! What did the text say?? I mean was the author dropping F bombs all over the place? I can't even imagine what kind of foul language one would use in a career guidance type book. Very odd...

[Joanne]

There is a difference between a book used in a class as part of a curriculum and a "text book". Or a book used as a "text" and a "text book." Is it possible the book in question is a lay person, down to earth resource and not a text?

 

When I was divorcing, I read a book that was incredibly helpful to me. But it was.....graphic. I am attending a Christian graduate school and have not yet decided if I will practice as a Christian or secular counselor. But, either way, I don't know if I could recommend that book to anyone - in spite of how it really hit home on some of the process of ending a marriage.

[EmilyK]

Chapter titles - - get an effin' job?

 

 

I know some adults who need that book.

 

 

 

 

Sorry -- it just made me laugh. Not trying to diminish OP's problem.

[Tangerine]

My husband just got an email from his economics professor with the f word in it. Actually it was a hyphenated f-combo-word. I immediately thought of this thread.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It is unprofessional for professors to use language like that in class or in class materials. It would be different if it was part of a piece of literature - like the "N" word in Tom Sawyer - it was part of the time and culture of the book.

[IsabelC]

OTOH, I don't have a problem with swearing. I'd need to see the examples to see if I'd be bothered by it. Gratuitious swearing can be boring just because it's often linked to bad writing but it doesn't generally bother me.

I'm more likely to have problems with misogyny, racism and homophobia in literature than with vulgar language.....

Me too.

Except now I have this gnawing curiosity as to what the offending words were. I just can't imagine what coarse expressions could possibly be used in a career guidance textbook. Either it is a very bizarre book, or the OP has incredibly delicate sensibilities regarding appropriate language.

[creekland]

Part of being an adult is maintaining your character and dignity, even when other don't. You won't get to walk away from work because a coworker swears

 

But... in our professional world - where hubby owns the company - if the co-worker is (continually) swearing they would be out of a job. Those words simply do not belong in many parts of the professional world. Image means a lot and that simply would not match the image the company needs to portray. Fortunately, it's never been a problem.

 

It's too bad if adults in college are now being taught otherwise. Street language is not always desired in the professional world. It wasn't any different when hubby worked for a similar company either.

 

In literature, movies or on the street all sorts of things are there. In a guidance/text book - or even USED by a professor (often), I'd draw the line or at the very least, really lower my respect. Here's a vote for keeping professionalism professional.

[Alison in KY]

If it's as bad as you say, then I would be the one complaining...after all it's your money paying for your son's education.

 

I'm really surprised at some of the stories on here. Maybe I do live in a bubble :001_huh:

 

Alison

[Margaret in GA]

Me too.

Except now I have this gnawing curiosity as to what the offending words were. I just can't imagine what coarse expressions could possibly be used in a career guidance textbook. Either it is a very bizarre book, or the OP has incredibly delicate sensibilities regarding appropriate language.

:confused:

I agree! Please, OP, do tell!

[Tutor]

My legal professor told of when she went to the dean of a well known college and it made matters worse. She also warned us that the same talking amoungst teachers happens at our school and every other school. There is no confidentiality agreement when a student complains.

 

I wonder if the student could argue that his complaint falls under FERPA protection and therefore cannot be shared with anyone without his written consent. I don't know too much about the details of FERPA, but I do know that my dh (a grad student who teaches undergrads) is very careful what he shares about his classes and tutoring students for fear of violating FERPA.

[PineFarmMom]

It's funny. I have always taught my children that when they meet people who use profanity, it is usually a sign of ignorance. I've told them it usually is because they lack communication skills, vocabulary, and the ability to get their point across in an intelligent manner. So for it to be in a textbook and used over-the-top by anyone in a teaching capacity would be almost a proof to them that they wouldn't want to bother with the class itself. :D

[Pam L.]

I have realized (the hard way) that the book in question has been misplaced. I have been looking seriously for the past 24 hours. I was hoping to give specific quotes for the curious. If I should locate this soon, I will post again. Maybe ds did something with it.......

 

But for the curious, the offending word was the "f" word multiple times. There were a few lesser swear words, but we don't really get that worked up over the "minor" ones:)

 

Pam

[Janet in WA]

But for the curious, the offending word was the "f" word multiple times.

Well, that's about as offensive as it gets. And I reread your original post where you mentioned the foul language being used even in the preface of the book, as well as throughout. I can't imagine a justification for that.

[TravelingChris]

I really question the judgement of the professor who would use such a book in a class about career development. Even in the most obnoxious, vulgar professions you can imagine, I don't think you would be dropping f bombs in an interview for the job. Most people are certainly going to apply for jobs where that kind of language is inappropriate. It really doesn't have anything to do with prudity but rather with judgement. I don't get it at all.