Calling all folks who are versed in the use of Natural remedies...re:H1N1

[Tree House Academy]

I would love to get this all in one place. Right now, there is lots of this type info, but it is scattered all over the board.

 

My specific questions:

 

1. What supplements, vitamins, etc. can be used to keep the body healthy, ward off flu, AND not increase cytokine production?

 

2. My child or I get (suspect) swine flu. What can I immediately start doing *naturally* to help us? Is there anything one could do in the first hours of onset of the flu to possibly STOP a possible cytokine reaction? (please distinguish between what can be given to a child vs what can be given to an adult in responses).

 

(Currently, we are taking vitamins and upping our use of Tumeric in most of the things we eat).

 

Thank you all so much! This board is a wealth of informaiton and it is greatly appreciated.

[Lisa in Jax]

I'm no expert on the cytokine aspect, so I can't speak to that part of your question. We do a lot of biomedical health "stuff," though, so here are the things we're planning/doing for prevention:

 

Ongoing:

Zinc, B-complex, selenium and vitamins A, C and E for overall immune health. Drinking LOTS of water. Washing our hands after being in public.

 

If symptoms appear or someone close to us is infected, we'll add Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy, and as well as echinacea and additional vitamin C.

 

HIH,

 

Lisa

 

I would love to get this all in one place. Right now, there is lots of this type info, but it is scattered all over the board.

 

My specific questions:

 

1. What supplements, vitamins, etc. can be used to keep the body healthy, ward off flu, AND not increase cytokine production?

 

2. My child or I get (suspect) swine flu. What can I immediately start doing *naturally* to help us? Is there anything one could do in the first hours of onset of the flu to possibly STOP a possible cytokine reaction? (please distinguish between what can be given to a child vs what can be given to an adult in responses).

 

(Currently, we are taking vitamins and upping our use of Tumeric in most of the things we eat).

 

Thank you all so much! This board is a wealth of informaiton and it is greatly appreciated.

[MIch elle]

Whenever I FIRST start to feel sick (or my dc) I eat a RAW garlic clove. I smash it into olive oil & put on a piece of bread. It always works to fend off sickness BUT it must be at the FIRST sign/symptom of illness. The dc HATE it but it works!! P.S. Don't go anywhere after eating raw garlic - people will notice you ;)

[jplain]

I don't believe there's any conclusive evidence yet, but I've been hearing that vitamin D sufficiency may be one piece of the puzzle. I'm pretty sure I read that here first.

 

Googling vitamin D H1N1 turns up lots of hits. Here's a quote from one of them:

A June 2009 report in the Journal of Immunology suggests that vitamin D promotes the production of antimicrobial substances that have the ability to neutralize the activity of various disease-causing agents, including influenza virus.

 

In another study, published in the February 23, 2009 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine, researchers studied 19,000 individuals and found that those who had lowest average levels of vitamin D (defined as less than 10 ng/mL) were about 40 percent more likely to have recent respiratory infection, including flu, compared to those who had higher levels of vitamin D (30 ng/mL or higher).

 

According to the most recent data on the status of vitamin D in the US population (2000-2004 NHANES), most Americans have levels less than 30 ng/mL.

 

source

So that may be one more good reason to start supplementing vitamin D if you aren't already.

[wulfbourne]

I don't believe there's any conclusive evidence yet, but I've been hearing that vitamin D sufficiency may be one piece of the puzzle. I'm pretty sure I read that here first.

 

Googling vitamin D H1N1 turns up lots of hits. Here's a quote from one of them:

 

So that may be one more good reason to start supplementing vitamin D if you aren't already.

 

I second the Vit. D. Levels drop in the fall and winter because of lack of sunlight, so this time of year it is especially important. Probiotics are good too. You can take a pill or eat some yogurt.

[FairProspects]

Vitamin D! It lowers your cykotine response. That's why the Canadian government is studying it as a possible flu prevention technique. Although, you can overdose on oral supplements if you are not careful, so it is best not to supplement above 6000 IU/day unless under doctor's orders, and have your blood levels checked. You should be around the 60 level to adequately ward off diseases/germs. HTH!

[Blueridge]

Another vote for vitamin D. It needs to be specifically vitamin D3. The standard doses recommended by the USDA are way too low (according to all the sources I've studied). Check out the Dr. Mercola site for his suggestions and a video on flu prevention. My dh, dd16 and I are taking 2,000 IU of D3 through the fall and winter, and the younger girls are taking 1,000 with tiny citrus flavored *dots*. I got our supplements very cheaply at Lucky Vitamin online. Keep hand cleaner in each car. I also have a supply of the homeopathic flu remedy Oscillococcinum by Boiron.

[cillakat]

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AV3S7fNjwg33ZHp0bWN3cV83NnhxZGd3a2N3&hl=en

 

The majority of flulike illnesses currently presenting are H1N1. It's possible that 50% of cases are presenting without a fever and very likely many more. This makes meaningless, the recommendations to "stay home from school or work until fever free for 24 hours". Children are unknowingly being sent to school with H1N1; adults with H1N1 will continue to go to work not realizing that they are spreading the flu.

 

It's wonderful that most people are reporting being sick for 1.5-2 days. Yay! For those at risk for respiratory complications though (including our pregnant friends and family members, those with breathing difficulties including asthma, lung disease, obesity, diabetes) it doesn't matter that 'most' are sick for 1-2 days. For them, this is not a typical flu. Please practice social distancing for the recommended amount of time if you have symptoms. Please keep your child home if that child has symptoms.

 

Influenza, including H1N1 is contagious from 1 day prior to onset of symptoms until 7-10 days after onset.

 

The following is not to be construed as medical advice nor is it intended to take the place of

your own research

your own responsibility for your health

information from your own health care providers

common sense

What can you do to prevent or treat the flu?

 

Consider:

•Anti-Virals if you fall under the CDC recommendations (you have been exposed and are considered high risk) Keep in mind that there is a 50-90% false negtive rate on the rapid flu tests. Yes, you read that right. Just b/c you have a negative rapid flu test absolutely positively does not mean you do not have H1N1. Lack of a fever absolutely positively does not mean you are H1N1 free.

 

Effective treatment:

 

•Anti-Viral Medication started within 24h (less helpful but still helpful if started later....though rare drug resistant cases have emerged)

 

 

•High Dose Vitamin D3 therapy aka Stoss Therapy. (reduces cytokines) Stoss Therapy is 1,000 IU D per one lb body weight per day

FOR THREE DAYS,

then back to normal dosing: 1,000 IU per 25 lbs body weight. Stoss therapy is not appropriate for those with kidney disease. Take sufficient calcium and magnesium while taking vitamin D.

 

 

Likely Helpful adjuncts to effective treatment - will reduce and/or moderate cytokines or act as ACE inhibitors:

 

•Aspirin,

Adults only;

never children or adolescents

(reduces cytokines).

 

•Green tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines). Consider drinking

 

daily and/or gargling with it.

 

•High dose vitamin C therapy to bowel tolerance. Use cheap ascorbic acid unless you personally need buffered - avoid time released for this usage.

 

 

 

 

Effective Prevention:

 

•Optimal blood levels of D3 (reduce cytokines)

 

 

 

•50-80 ng/mL is optimal; some say 50-70 ng/mL, some say 55-80 ng/mL - it depends on who's writing and when they wrote it. Anything less than 50 ng/mL=substrate deficiency which is a Very Bad Thing. Our 50-80 ng/mL translates to 150-200 nmoL in any other place in the world

Moderate levels are correlated, by some data, with increased cytokine activity (20-40 ng/mL). We don't want moderate levels or even 'normal' levels. We want optimal levels in the middle of the 'reference range'.

 

 

 

•Remember that because of problems with Quest's test, any D result from them should be divided by 1.3 to get an accurate number.

 

 

 

•Optimal vitamin D levels are your very best defense against influenza, some researchers posit that it may be as or more effective than a vaccine.

 

 

 

•Green tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines).

 

Drink it or gargle.

 

 

•Probiotics. Take daily.

 

May be helpful adjuncts to effective treatment and/or prevention in addition to above measures:

 

•Black tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines)

 

•Quercetin (possible ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines)

 

•Pomegranate (ACE inhibitor)

 

•Proanthocyandin containig foods, supplements (ACE inhibitors): grapeseed extract, pinebark extract (pycnogenol)

 

•Turmeric (reduces cytokines). 1/4 tsp powder can be placed on tongue and swallowed with water

.

 

•Black pepper (reduces cytokines)

 

•Raw crushed garlic (reduces cytokines). For easy dosing, mix with tsp raw honey.

 

•Coconut oil (reduces cytokines)

 

•Echinacea (increases some cytokine activity but overwhelmingly reduces cytokine activity)

 

 

Assess carefully:

 

•Elderberry "Sambucol" or similar (known to increase cytokines - I am avoiding)

 

•Astragalus (reduces activity of some cytokines, increases activity of other cytokines). I am avoiding.

 

•Olive oil (may increase cytokines). I will continue to use as needed but will use coconut oil for cooking/baking.

 

•Fish oil (may increase cytokines). I will continue to take significant amounts.

 

•Chocolate (ACE inhibitor but increases cytokines). I will use moderately. And by moderately, I might mean 'daily' or 'as needed':)

 

 

Cannel on preventing and treating H1N1:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/h1n1-flu-and-vitamin-d.shtml

 

Randomized, placebo controlled trial shows D3 prevents and treats colds and flu:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17352842

[AuntieM]

Best vitamin D source (ie, preferred supplements) for children, adults?

[MomLovesClassics]

I say take colstrum, either in powder form mixed into drink, or chewable tablets. Also medicinal mushrooms are good for the immune system. Oscillococcinum is good. Also grapefruit seed extract, and olive leaf extract is excellent. I would follow instructins on package.

[Caroline4kids]

Whenever I FIRST start to feel sick (or my dc) I eat a RAW garlic clove. I smash it into olive oil & put on a piece of bread. It always works to fend off sickness BUT it must be at the FIRST sign/symptom of illness. The dc HATE it but it works!! P.S. Don't go anywhere after eating raw garlic - people will notice you ;)

 

 

I used to cut up garlic and swallow it like a pill in juice for mastitis and other infections. Worked great, smelled bad. :)

[mcconnellboys]

I'll add, too, that putting vinegar in your ears several times a day during the first day or two can help lessen the replication of a virus and give your body more time to respond to the insult.

[FairProspects]

Also with determining how much Vitamin D to take, it really is best to get your blood levels checked rather than guess at supplementing, because the amount needed can really vary by location. For example, I am in WA, and my Vit. D level during summer was 28 ng/mL. As PP noted, you want to be in the 55-60 ng/mL range so I need to take at least 4000 IU daily in summer and 6000 IU in winter. I'm also now getting my blood tested every 3 months to make sure I am at an adequate levels and I'm making hubby and the kids get checked too.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Also with determining how much Vitamin D to take, it really is best to get your blood levels checked rather than guess at supplementing, because the amount needed can really vary by location. For example, I am in WA, and my Vit. D level during summer was 28 ng/mL. As PP noted, you want to be in the 55-60 ng/mL range so I need to take at least 4000 IU daily in summer and 6000 IU in winter. I'm also now getting my blood tested every 3 months to make sure I am at an adequate levels and I'm making hubby and the kids get checked too.

:iagree:I was taking 2,000 IU per day for about a year and after I was tested, doc put me on 10,000 IU per day.

[ChristusG]

So how do you guys go about getting your vitamin D levels checked? Do you go to the doctor and they refer you to the lab? So you pay the copay just to be referred to the lab? I dont think we can just outright go to the lab.

[StephinAL]

Here is a page with lots of great info in the comments.

 

http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2009/04/28/swine-flu-immune-system-boosting-ideas/

[PCA]

VITAMIN D for sure!!

 

It is just amazing what they are discovering about this vitamin. You want to get Vitamin D3 specifically.

[Orthodox6]

P.S. Don't go anywhere after eating raw garlic - people will notice you ;)

 

. . . which means that if you come visit us, we might not even notice you ! :)

 

(We often "pop a clove" during meal preparation.)

[FairProspects]

So how do you guys go about getting your vitamin D levels checked? Do you go to the doctor and they refer you to the lab? So you pay the copay just to be referred to the lab? I dont think we can just outright go to the lab.

 

I originally asked to have the Vit D bloodwork done during a check-up, since I was already at the doc. You could try calling and ask the doc to send a referral to the lab since it is such a routine test. If you have a cool doc, they might do it. Otherwise, I probably would pay the co-pay just for the referral - to me it is cheaper than getting the flu and having to go get tamiflu or something!

[Imprimis]

Whenever I FIRST start to feel sick (or my dc) I eat a RAW garlic clove. I smash it into olive oil & put on a piece of bread. It always works to fend off sickness BUT it must be at the FIRST sign/symptom of illness. The dc HATE it but it works!! P.S. Don't go anywhere after eating raw garlic - people will notice you ;)

 

I absolutely agree! I am big on raw garlic at the first sign of an upper respiratory infection. Heck, I even bring a head of garlic along when we go somewhere on vacation, as my kids always seem to pick something up when we travel. Yep, I am one of garlic's biggest cheerleaders :001_smile:.

[Caroline4kids]

This might be a little more "out there", but I have had wonderful results with MMS.

 

I had the flu and after three doses I was a-ok (about three hours worth of treatment). It has also worked on my kids and husband. I read the entire book and watched the dvd and I have concluded it is the best $20 insurance policy I can find.

 

I also make my own homeopathic remedies and if anyone in the family gets the swine flu I will make a remedy from them.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

So how do you guys go about getting your vitamin D levels checked? Do you go to the doctor and they refer you to the lab? So you pay the copay just to be referred to the lab? I dont think we can just outright go to the lab.

In-Home ZRT Vitamin D Blood Test Kit at vitamindcouncil.org

[Mrs. Readsalot]

I second the Vit. D. Levels drop in the fall and winter because of lack of sunlight, so this time of year it is especially important. Probiotics are good too. You can take a pill or eat some yogurt.

 

What I find interesting about this and that I have noticed that since I started walking for exercise 10 years ago (I do most of my walking outside) I get sick less often. I have talked to other walkers and they have also noticed the same thing.

Karen

[Melissa in Australia]

Whenever I FIRST start to feel sick (or my dc) I eat a RAW garlic clove. I smash it into olive oil & put on a piece of bread. It always works to fend off sickness BUT it must be at the FIRST sign/symptom of illness. The dc HATE it but it works!! P.S. Don't go anywhere after eating raw garlic - people will notice you ;)

 

we eat heaps of garlic as well. just knowing that there is a flue around is reason to eat heaps of garlic.

 

I have often wondered if it is the garlic that stops you getting the flue, or you stink so much that people don't get close enough to spread it to you.:lol:

 

 

 

I knew a man who lived through the Spanish flue. he was about 10 at the time. he said his mother made the whole family eat garlic every day, and not one of them got the flue, though they had neighbours that died.

[mirth]

Vitamin D! It lowers your cykotine response. That's why the Canadian government is studying it as a possible flu prevention technique. Although, you can overdose on oral supplements if you are not careful, so it is best not to supplement above 6000 IU/day unless under doctor's orders, and have your blood levels checked.

 

While it is possible to OD on Vit D (D3) supplements, it is not easy. It is, however, fairly easy to become poisoned be excess Vitamin A which often accompanies Vit D in natural sources like cod liver oil. I am very careful about Vit A content and tend to accept it only in the form of beta-carotene in supplements.

 

With high D3 supplementation, one needs to be careful about calcium supplementation. Most likely, you will not need as much Ca supplementation as before you went hyper on D.

[Lovedtodeath]

While it is possible to OD on Vit D (D3) supplements, it is not easy. It is, however, fairly easy to become poisoned be excess Vitamin A which often accompanies Vit D in natural sources like cod liver oil. I am very careful about Vit A content and tend to accept it only in the form of beta-carotene in supplements.

 

With high D3 supplementation, one needs to be careful about calcium supplementation. Most likely, you will not need as much Ca supplementation as before you went hyper on D.

On the site vitamindcouncil.org it says somewhere (you'll have to find it) that one is more likely to OD on water than on Vitamin D supplements.

[Penelope]

We will avoid sugars, white flours, etc. even more stringently than usual, get plenty of exercise, and take probiotics.

 

Recent study showing effectiveness of probiotics in preschoolers:

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/short/124/2/e172

[MIch elle]

 

I have often wondered if it is the garlic that stops you getting the flue, or you stink so much that people don't get close enough to spread it to you.:lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D

[BellaMama]

While Dh and I chop up garlic and take it like a pill with a glass of water ( thank you for this method, it is so much better than chewing it !), how do I serve/hide/present raw garlic to a young child ?

[Caroline4kids]

While Dh and I chop up garlic and take it like a pill with a glass of water ( thank you for this method, it is so much better than chewing it !), how do I serve/hide/present raw garlic to a young child ?

 

I make mild, raw salsa for my kids with tons of fresh garlic.

 

I know this may sound really gross, but I made homemade cough medicine with a small jar of honey and lots of minced garlic. It is not totally pleasant, but it is sweet enough to usuallly get it down.

[Lovedtodeath]

I make mild, raw salsa for my kids with tons of fresh garlic.

 

I know this may sound really gross, but I made homemade cough medicine with a small jar of honey and lots of minced garlic. It is not totally pleasant, but it is sweet enough to usuallly get it down.

What great ideas! Thanks!

 

What does garlic do for the cytokin effect?

[MomLovesClassics]

Someone said that people who have a more acidic system and eat a more acidic diet are more prone to H1N1 swine flu? H1N1 swine flu is acidic and thrives in an acidic environment. If your ph was more balanced and more alkaline that you would be more immune to it. Their suggestion was to check you ph, and keep it more balanced by having a 80% alkaline to 20% acidic diet. They also suggested wheat grass, barley grass and green foods could help. I am just passing along information I heard in hopes it helps someone.

[cillakat]

Best vitamin D source (ie, preferred supplements) for children, adults?

 

 

http://www.iherb.com

 

search "ddrops" (no quotes)

 

I get the 2000 IU drops only and dose according to the '1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight'

 

K

[yslek]

http://www.iherb.com

 

search "ddrops" (no quotes)

 

I get the 2000 IU drops only and dose according to the '1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight'

 

K

 

My local Super Supplements sells these, also. They also sell it in a 1000 IU strength.

[cillakat]

Also with determining how much Vitamin D to take, it really is best to get your blood levels checked rather than guess at supplementing, because the amount needed can really vary by location. For example, I am in WA, and my Vit. D level during summer was 28 ng/mL. As PP noted, you want to be in the 55-60 ng/mL range so I need to take at least 4000 IU daily in summer and 6000 IU in winter. I'm also now getting my blood tested every 3 months to make sure I am at an adequate levels and I'm making hubby and the kids get checked too.

 

This is pretty typical (your levels). I completely agree about testing but the reality is that no matter how much and how often that suggestion is made, most can't or won't get D levels tested. It should be a normal part of a dr visit but.....

 

One easy option for those who can't easily access testing from their doc is to sign up for the study at grassrootshealth.org For $40 two times per year, you'll be sent a home vitamin D test. LabCorp testing would still be a better option, but it's a close second.

 

Because of issues with Quest's testing process, their results need to be divided by 1.3 to arrive at an accurate number.....

 

:)

K

[cillakat]

In-Home ZRT Vitamin D Blood Test Kit at vitamindcouncil.org

 

 

The best option is to order this test via the grassrootshealth.org study. Then it's $40 instead of $65.

 

However, seeing your doc and having your blood drawn and sent to *LabCorp* (not Quest) ideal.

 

:)

K

[cillakat]

:iagree:I was taking 2,000 IU per day for about a year and after I was tested, doc put me on 10,000 IU per day.

 

Be sure to test again. That's a lot of D......but it might be exactly what you need. I took 6000 IU per day for the last 6 or so months AND took a few 50,000 IU doses. My levels are at 52 ng/mL per the ZRT home test via the grassrootshealth.org study

 

So how do you guys go about getting your vitamin D levels checked? Do you go to the doctor and they refer you to the lab? So you pay the copay just to be referred to the lab? I dont think we can just outright go to the lab.

 

Many doc offices have a tech on staff who will draw the blood then the lab picks it up every day. Remember that LabCorp is optimal, Quest is a distant last option b/c of reliability issues with their testing....and the results are off on the high side so Quest restults need to be divided by 1.3 to obtain an accurate number.

 

It's probably a better choice to use the ZRT home test ($65 from vitamin D coucil) but obtain it from grassrootshealth.net for $40 twice a year.

 

On the site vitamindcouncil.org it says somewhere (you'll have to find it) that one is more likely to OD on water than on Vitamin D supplements.

 

Very true.

 

While it is possible to OD on Vit D (D3) supplements, it is not easy. It is, however, fairly easy to become poisoned be excess Vitamin A which often accompanies Vit D in natural sources like cod liver oil. I am very careful about Vit A content and tend to accept it only in the form of beta-carotene in supplements.

 

It's definitely not 'easy' to overdose on A, it's simply that b/c of D deficiency, A toxicity symptoms show even at non-toxic levels. We just need optimal amounts of D.......then normal intakes of A aren't a problem.

 

With high D3 supplementation, one needs to be careful about calcium supplementation. Most likely, you will not need as much Ca supplementation as before you went hyper on D.

 

When taking D you need to be sure you're getting enough calcium and enough magnesium. Not to much, but optimal amounts.

 

 

What does garlic do for the cytokin effect?

 

Normalizes it. Remember cytokine production is good. It's just the crazy spiraling out of control cytokine storm that's a problem. Garlic is good. Might even be a natural ACE inhibitor - can't recall....but it's posted in the document I put up earlier in the thread.

 

K

[Lovedtodeath]

Be sure to test again. That's a lot of D......but it might be exactly what you need. I took 6000 IU per day for the last 6 or so months AND took a few 50,000 IU doses. My levels are at 52 ng/mL per the ZRT home test via the grassrootshealth.org study

 

Normalizes it. Remember cytokine production is good. It's just the crazy spiraling out of control cytokine storm that's a problem. Garlic is good. Might even be a natural ACE inhibitor - can't recall....but it's posted in the document I put up earlier in the thread.

 

K

Thank you! I am finishing one bottle of 10,000 IU and then we will be testing again.

 

I did not remember garlic in the previous article. :001_huh: DUH. Thanks.

[Lovedtodeath]

Okay. I tookd 30,000 of Vit D, ate a garlic clove and drank a cup of green tea. How many times should I do that per day?

[Lovedtodeath]

Okay, I also skipped my cacao today. I see I should add aspirin. (I put my alkaseltzer back b/c I didn't want DD to take aspirin. :glare:

 

180 lbs... 180,000 IU So... 18 of my 10,000 mg pills? That seems scary.

 

•High Dose Vitamin D3 therapy aka Stoss Therapy. (reduces cytokines) Stoss Therapy is 1,000 IU D per one lb body weight per day FOR THREE DAYS, then back to normal dosing: 1,000 IU per 25 lbs body weight. Stoss therapy is not appropriate for those with kidney disease. Take sufficient calcium and magnesium while taking vitamin D.

 

Likely Helpful adjuncts to effective treatment - will reduce and/or moderate cytokines or act as ACE inhibitors:

 

 

•Aspirin,

Adults only;

never children or adolescents

(reduces cytokines).

 

•Green tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines). Consider drinking

 

daily and/or gargling with it.

 

•High dose vitamin C therapy to bowel tolerance. Use cheap ascorbic acid unless you personally need buffered - avoid time released for this usage.

 

 

 

 

Effective Prevention:

 

 

•Optimal blood levels of D3 (reduce cytokines)

 

 

 

•50-80 ng/mL is optimal; some say 50-70 ng/mL, some say 55-80 ng/mL - it depends on who's writing and when they wrote it. Anything less than 50 ng/mL=substrate deficiency which is a Very Bad Thing. Our 50-80 ng/mL translates to 150-200 nmoL in any other place in the world

Moderate levels are correlated, by some data, with increased cytokine activity (20-40 ng/mL). We don't want moderate levels or even 'normal' levels. We want optimal levels in the middle of the 'reference range'.

 

 

 

•Remember that because of problems with Quest's test, any D result from them should be divided by 1.3 to get an accurate number.

 

 

 

•Optimal vitamin D levels are your very best defense against influenza, some researchers posit that it may be as or more effective than a vaccine.

 

 

 

•Green tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines).

 

Drink it or gargle.

 

 

 

•Probiotics. Take daily.

 

 

May be helpful adjuncts to effective treatment and/or prevention in addition to above measures:

 

 

•Black tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines)

 

•Quercetin (possible ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines)

 

•Pomegranate (ACE inhibitor)

 

•Proanthocyandin containig foods, supplements (ACE inhibitors): grapeseed extract, pinebark extract (pycnogenol)

 

•Turmeric (reduces cytokines). 1/4 tsp powder can be placed on tongue and swallowed with water

.

 

•Black pepper (reduces cytokines)

 

•Raw crushed garlic (reduces cytokines). For easy dosing, mix with tsp raw honey.

 

•Coconut oil (reduces cytokines)

 

•Echinacea (increases some cytokine activity but overwhelmingly reduces cytokine activity)

 

 

Assess carefully:

 

 

•Elderberry "Sambucol" or similar (known to increase cytokines - I am avoiding)

 

•Astragalus (reduces activity of some cytokines, increases activity of other cytokines). I am avoiding.

 

•Olive oil (may increase cytokines). I will continue to use as needed but will use coconut oil for cooking/baking.

 

•Fish oil (may increase cytokines). I will continue to take significant amounts.

 

•Chocolate (ACE inhibitor but increases cytokines). I will use moderately. And by moderately, I might mean 'daily' or 'as needed'

 

[cillakat]

do you have the flu? i'd only take the extra D if you actually have the flu....otherwise, you've been taking plenty of D ito prevention. i'd be gargling with green tea a couple times per day and drinking it instead of water.....a mashed/chopped clove of raw garlic in a tsp of honey every two hours (for tx....for prevention much less..)

 

:)

[Lovedtodeath]

do you have the flu? i'd only take the extra D if you actually have the flu....otherwise, you've been taking plenty of D ito prevention. i'd be gargling with green tea a couple times per day and drinking it instead of water.....a mashed/chopped clove of raw garlic in a tsp of honey every two hours (for tx....for prevention much less..)

 

:)

I am not sure. DH had bad symptoms for 3 days and some lingering cold symptoms more than 2 weeks ago. DD started in with symptoms shortly after... I was avoiding kissing them and drinking after them. I let my guard down and now I have cold symptoms. Is that much D only recommended for a confirmed case of the swine flu?

[cillakat]

How long have you been taking 10,000? How much before that and for how long? where do you live (geographically area, not specifically)? how much midday summer sun did you get in a bathing suit with NO sunscreen?

 

:)

K

[Quad Shot Academy]

I have been thinking a lot about the cytokine storm because my family has routinely become quite ill from most colds that just give others minor symptoms, until we discovered elderberry. Elderberry is a miracle herb for us, but it raises cytokines so I have been trying to figure out if we would use it for H1N1.

 

It is my understanding that the cytokine storm theory is just a theory, and that there are other theories out there about why young healthy people are dying and the elderly are not. Some other theories I have heard is that a part of the certain strain has been included in flu shots for decades and most elderly people have been getting them for at lest a decade. Second possibility is that a mild form of H1N1 circulated in the population decades ago and these people have natural immunity. I have read other theories too.

 

I am 95% sure that my whole family just had H1N1. I have two people that have very good immune systems, two that have very poor ones and two that are average. The one that got sick first, happens to be the one with the poorest immune system and we did not have access to elderberry for many days. I gave preventative elderberry to the rest. The two that have the poorest immune systems, got the sickest, the two that have the best remained almost symptom free and the other two were right in the middle.

 

So, what I am saying is that I would not rule out using supplements that increase cytokines just because it is one theory of many. It is my experience that elderberry helped us fight off H1N1. :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

How long have you been taking 10,000? How much before that and for how long? where do you live (geographically area, not specifically)? how much midday summer sun did you get in a bathing suit with NO sunscreen?

 

:)

K

My doc prescribed 10.000 per day for 100 days. I get retested soon after that.

[cillakat]

It is my understanding that the cytokine storm theory is just a theory, and that there are other theories out there about why young healthy people are dying and the elderly are not.

 

Very true. And it's not actually targeting healthy young....making the cytokine theory less tenable. It's most problematic for overweight (pregnant or actually overweight women) mostly with underlying lung disease (asthma etc) While some otherwise healthy individuals have died, this is the case with flu as well.

 

 

 

So, what I am saying is that I would not rule out using supplements that increase cytokines just because it is one theory of many. It is my experience that elderberry helped us fight off H1N1. :001_smile:

 

There a multiple options though that can be helpful (though I have to say, i have generally found elderberry to be the most helpful herb when it comes to the flu).

 

Working on Vitamin D levels may be the most helpful thing of all......it really changed my experience of having a 'weak' immune system and the evidence to support it is crystal clear.

 

:)

Katherine

[cillakat]

My doc prescribed 10.000 per day for 100 days. I get retested soon after that.

 

•How long have you been taking 10,000?

•How much before that and for how long?

•Where do you live (geographically area, not specifically)?

•How much midday summer sun did you get in a bathing suit with NO sunscreen?

 

You'd asked if you should be taking huge amounts of D......if you can answer the above, it'll help the overall picture of your D status.

 

:)

K

[TraceyS/FL]

All i can say is that i had the kids on a big dose of Vit-D (i have to go check the pills to know how much - i think 4000), and i backed that off last week a bit because i didn't want to OD them.... And as i did - their sick symptoms got worse. In fact i have 2 that seemed on the brink of total relapse.

 

The part that really ticks me off is that i was AT the doctors and FORGOT to ask for lab work for them to check their levels. We didn't actually spend a lot of time outside this summer, so even though we live in FL, i'm guessing their levels were low.

 

But STBXH is actually dosing himself on it - but only as his "flu" symptoms started. He actually works outside all day - so his levels shouldn't be low, but you never know.

 

I had one day i was SURE i was down for the count with the same as the kids.... but i was taking the Vit D and airborne 3 times a day, it seemed to have worked.

 

That said, we still don't know what we actually have HAD sickness wise... i'm inclined to say H1N1, but a few things don't add up symptom wise.

 

But without you guys here - i never would have done the Vit D thing - so thanks!!!

[cillakat]

All i can say is that i had the kids on a big dose of Vit-D (i have to go check the pills to know how much - i think 4000), and i backed that off last week a bit because i didn't want to OD them.... And as i did - their sick symptoms got worse. In fact i have 2 that seemed on the brink of total relapse.

 

That's not likely too much for the kids for 'x' time period.

 

So far, it's looking like 1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight is about right for the average caucasion wearing clothes and staying indoors *midday* or wearing sunscreen.....we still get a little D from incidental exposure though not much.

 

So for a kid that weighs 50 lbs they're looking at 2000 IU D per day every day they don't get midday bathingsuit no sunscreen exposure. 4,000 IU per day for several months is reasonable to get them up to optimal levels more quickly....2,000 IU will hold them there.

 

It's very likely that more will be needed with more melanin, extreme northerly latitudes, very very modest dress (ie to wrists/ankles and/*or* covering head/neck and/or face).

 

In the Danish study of Muslim women, they took 6,000 IU per day to get to 'normal' levels but at that time 20 ng/mL was considered normal and no longer is. By the most current body of evidence, many of the women would still be considered D deficient. Their breastmilk did contain more D - 400 IU per day based on samples collected but that's only enough for a newborn.......not an older larger baby. Interesting stuff though.

 

:)

K

[mamamoon]

i would love to hear more about the elderberry pros/cons~thanks