Am I screwing up my kids?

[Debbie in OR]

I have a long and involved story to go with this but the shortened version is that my uncle, who is a professor in aeronautics (he's a retired AF fighter pilot), offered to pay for my kids to go to the local Christian school this year. His granddaughter (my kids' second cousin) goes there and is doing very well. My dh and I went back and forth about it only because there is always in the back of my mind this question as to whether we are doing the right thing or not. Plus, it's overwhelming and consuming, right?!?! Anyhow, after carefully considering and praying, we decided to not send them and now, the campaign has started. :glare: I've pretty much just let it all roll off of my back but this morning's email from him has thrown me off. He has a couple of homeschooled kids in his advanced math classes and he has been...shall we say...unimpressed. They show up late for class, don't know how to study or ask for help, have parents who meet with him who swear their kids are great at math and don't understand why they are not doing well in his class. He called me one day and asked me if I thought he was being too hard on them, and should he lower the grading standard for them to help them.:huh: He sees hs'd kids as train wrecks now because of the experiences he is having with them in his classes.

 

So, his email this morning said he had given the money to another boy who was going to be homeschooled. Here's the direct quote:

 

The scholarship money was quickly grabbed by another couple who wanted desperatly to send their son & he will get a great education. They were going to homeschool him & it would, in my opinion, have been a disaster & would likely have resulted in another of the untold failures of homeschooling.

 

Choice is a good thing for most people. I'm not sure there are many who can handle all of them. I see a side of education you don't see & what I see are often sad.

 

Honestly, until this morning, I've never doubted the final outcome of our homeschooling as being great. Daily, it's hard and I do wonder, but ultimately, I've been rock solid in my belief that hs was better than school. Suddenly, I'm unsure...this has so thrown me off this morning. Help.:sad:

[johnandtinagilbert]

There is truth to his comment. There is often a dark side of home schooling.

 

HOWEVER, there is also a glorious side where people's comments are more like this,

 

"You are obviously doing a great job with your kids. They are so intelligent and have excellent self control."

 

If you are giving it your best, and only you know that, then don't be swayed. Very kindly offer your appreciation and recognition of his point, and assure him you are not going to produce one of those children.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

FWIW, my son, rising 8th grader, has already passed the college entrance exam in math. Not b/c he's brilliant, he's just a regular student, but b/c we've done a great job on working on his strengths and weaknesses. They don't all turn out that way! This board is strong testimony to that!

[Moni]

Am I screwing up my kids?

 

Yeah, you might be........it depends on the definition of "screwing up." :lol:

 

What are you end goals?

What are you long-term goals?

What are you short-term goals?

 

Are you coming close to being on the path toward achieving those goals?

 

Sometimes you will find yourselves on the right path. That's good

Sometimes you will see your path isn't quite leading you toward your goals. This is good too.

Because it will be a Red Flag so you can get yourselves back on track.

Or it might be time to change your goals or path getting there.

 

So, yeah, I don't know....are you screwing up your kids? You would be the one who would know.

 

:seeya:

[AnneGabe]

:grouphug:

Don't let him cause doubt in your heart.

 

Would he blame public school for behavior from other students who may be struggling in his class? I'm sure they're not the only kids in his class having a hard time or showing up late. He's just choosing to blame it on the fact that they were homeschooled.

 

He's biased against homeschooling. He's going to be looking for flaws in homeschooled students to prove his point that homeschooling will result in failure.

 

You know what's best for your children.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Ariana

[Jean in Newcastle]

Homeschooling as an education method needs to be done with as much integrity and effort as other education methods, IMO. If you let your students slack off and run rough-shod over you, you will have unprepared students. If you have good discipline in your house/schoolroom and teach your children well, then you will have prepared students. (Now good discipline in a homeschool is going to look different than in a classroom - it would be silly to take roll, have them line up etc.!)

 

I looked at your curriculum choices. They look like solid programs that are not "fluff". Your math esp. is a good challenging program!

 

This is one of those self examining questions that I think we as home- educators. If you assign work, do you require it to be done neatly and on time? Are your children teachable (able to ask a question when they need to, and able to listen and utilize the answer)? Are you on time for appointments? If you have a routine do your children follow it?

 

There is a side of homeschooling that has failed. But I think the side of homeschooling that is successful is greater.

[OnTheBrink]

Hmmm, going by the grammatical and structural errors on his email, his opinion has lost some credibility for me.

 

I think the best determiner for your children's education is YOU. Don't let him second guess your decisions. It's not his choice, not his decision and none of his business.

[lionfamily1999]

I have a long and involved story to go with this but the shortened version is that my uncle, who is a professor in aeronautics (he's a retired AF fighter pilot), offered to pay for my kids to go to the local Christian school this year. His granddaughter (my kids' second cousin) goes there and is doing very well. My dh and I went back and forth about it only because there is always in the back of my mind this question as to whether we are doing the right thing or not. Plus, it's overwhelming and consuming, right?!?! Anyhow, after carefully considering and praying, we decided to not send them and now, the campaign has started. :glare: I've pretty much just let it all roll off of my back but this morning's email from him has thrown me off. He has a couple of homeschooled kids in his advanced math classes and he has been...shall we say...unimpressed. They show up late for class, don't know how to study or ask for help, have parents who meet with him who swear their kids are great at math and don't understand why they are not doing well in his class. He called me one day and asked me if I thought he was being too hard on them, and should he lower the grading standard for them to help them.:huh: He sees hs'd kids as train wrecks now because of the experiences he is having with them in his classes.

 

So, his email this morning said he had given the money to another boy who was going to be homeschooled. Here's the direct quote:

 

The scholarship money was quickly grabbed by another couple who wanted desperatly to send their son & he will get a great education. They were going to homeschool him & it would, in my opinion, have been a disaster & would likely have resulted in another of the untold failures of homeschooling.

 

Choice is a good thing for most people. I'm not sure there are many who can handle all of them. I see a side of education you don't see & what I see are often sad.

 

Honestly, until this morning, I've never doubted the final outcome of our homeschooling as being great. Daily, it's hard and I do wonder, but ultimately, I've been rock solid in my belief that hs was better than school. Suddenly, I'm unsure...this has so thrown me off this morning. Help.:sad:

Well, he didn't seem to think your dcs were too bad off, he gave the money to someone else :)

 

Really, this is why I would worry about putting ds back into school. Not because he's behind or slow or anything, but because change takes an adjustment period and there would be many things to learn and relearn about learning in a school atmosphere. Of course, they're going to blame the parenst of previously hs kids, but how much of it is because they were tossed into a completely different learning situation?

 

Please, I've changed math programs and noticed there was a time of adjustment, because the structure was different. It's not all because their undereducated, it's because they were taught with a different method.

[lulubelle]

Hi, I understand how you feel. I second guess myself alot. The grass always seems greener on the other side. I met a woman this past year that took her kids out of a charter school to homeschool. The school had all the "great" academics. But, it was too intense. This woman's kids were not having any fun! I think one of our goals as homeschoolers is to find balance in teaching our kids. Strong academics with lots of fun and free time. Follow what you think is "right", not someone elses definition. If those kids were so bad in college, then they shouldn't have been accepted.

 

What we do as homeschoolers is very challenging and can be quite demanding and hard at times. The enrichment to our families as we learn and live together far outways that - IMO.

[Orthodox6]

I won't question that your uncle was presented with poorly-educated, former homeschoolers. The "gap" that I see, is that your uncle seems not to be acquainted with you, your children, your approaches to homeschooling, and how it has worked with your children up to this point. He has taken an insufficiently small sample size (show him that you know about statistics !) and extrapolated its characteristics into a "global assessment."

 

As for the Christian school . . . There are good ones, there are bad ones.

 

Your uncle also sounds like a very generous man !

[Pamela H in Texas]

Debbie,

 

I think a huge percentage of homeschoolers "screw it up" (to use your words). There used to be (maybe still is) some stupid idea that kids were better off in all ways JUST BECAUSE they didn't go to school. HOW RIDICULOUS! But I know I made it sound like that a few times also.

 

Thing is that unfortunately many homeschoolers just do not do what it takes to fully educate their students. Many don't even do it to a mediocre degree. Many homeschoolers (imo, probably a majority though I won't guess how much of one) would just be better off in school where they could be consistently educated, getting an average knowledge base and half-decent basic skills. It's sad, but it's true.

 

But there ARE good homeschoolers out here and you most certainly can be part of our ranks! Our kids do well when they go to academic co-ops. They take courses and do well at private schools and colleges. They do have the skills they need and a broad knowledge base.

 

Being concerned about these things is a good thing. If you follow through (and it sounds like you will), making sure to address the concerns of year to year and final outcome, your kids will have an awesome opportunity. They WILL have everything they need.

 

You have a choice, but it isn't necessarily whether to homeschool or not (though of course that is a choice also). You have teh choice whether to be a good conscientious home EDUCATING mom or to neglect your children's education to some degree or another. I think you'll choose well and do well. And in a few years, you can show your uncle that SOME homeschool families really do take this very seriously and have excellent results because of it :)

[Debbie in OR]

If you are giving it your best, and only you know that, then don't be swayed. Very kindly offer your appreciation and recognition of his point, and assure him you are not going to produce one of those children.

 

 

 

:lol: Thanks....that has always been my assumption but I lost sight of that this morning. Thanks for telling me about your son...that's helpful.:001_smile:

[Debbie in OR]

 

What are you end goals?

What are you long-term goals?

What are you short-term goals?

 

Are you coming close to being on the path toward achieving those goals?

 

 

 

This is where I am always looking....to the end. I believe we are going to be there but in the daily, present things it gets clouded. Thanks for the reminder.

[Beebalm]

I have a different take. Your uncle doesn't sound very loving, generous or helpful to me. When you didn't accept his gift of a scholarship after careful thought, prayer and thanks, the correct response would have been for him to accept your parental decision and support you however he could. Maybe he could recommend a great math program (my math professor BIL did...now he uses my kid's ability as an example in his college courses!). Maybe he could donate the scholarship money to another worthy student quietly without comparing your situation and making you sound ungrateful. I'm insulted for you. He sounds controlling and makes me think your prayer (and gut) steered you right. Don't let folks break you down. I understand how it can feel. Homeschooling is tough enough without the 'help' of those who haven't been there. Let it strenghthen your resolve to teach your kiddos about self-responsibility, punctuality, great study habits, courtesy, faith and all the other things that go into homeschooling. Hang in there.:grouphug:

[Debbie in OR]

Would he blame public school for behavior from other students who may be struggling in his class? I'm sure they're not the only kids in his class having a hard time or showing up late. He's just choosing to blame it on the fact that they were homeschooled.

 

He's biased against homeschooling. He's going to be looking for flaws in homeschooled students to prove his point that homeschooling will result in failure.

 

You know what's best for your children.

 

I'll have to ask him about that...good point. Although, he thinks ps stinks, too, so I may have to ask him if there are any Christian-schooled kids and how they're doing. In his mind, Christian schooling is the only good thing.

 

You're right...he is biased. Usually, I can keep that in perspective. Today, not on the radar :tongue_smilie:. Thank you for the input...

[Jorsay]

So he pays for your kids to go to an expensive private school this year. Who is to say that he will pay next year? or the year following? What then? Charity isn't always free.

 

I think the answer is to rely on yourself and do a good job. If you are uncertain about the job you are doing, then give your kids a standardized test. That's how the school would measure their success.

[Hockey Mom]

I have a different take. Your uncle doesn't sound very loving, generous or helpful to me. When you didn't accept his gift of a scholarship after careful thought, prayer and thanks, the correct response would have been for him to accept your parental decision and support you however he could. Maybe he could recommend a great math program (my math professor BIL did...now he uses my kid's ability as an example in his college courses!). Maybe he could donate the scholarship money to another worthy student quietly without comparing your situation and making you sound ungrateful. I'm insulted for you. He sounds controlling and makes me think your prayer (and gut) steered you right. Don't let folks break you down. I understand how it can feel. Homeschooling is tough enough without the 'help' of those who haven't been there. Let it strenghthen your resolve to teach your kiddos about self-responsibility, punctuality, great study habits, courtesy, faith and all the other things that go into homeschooling. Hang in there.:grouphug:

:iagree:

 

I'm suspicious of anyone who offers charity and an agenda.

[titianmom]

Well, it *sounds* like, as one poster has said, he is strongly biased against homeschooling and a bit of a "hot dog" in that he believes he's the end-all authority on education.

 

I can be just as biased about him as an ex-AF fighter pilot...we all *know* how full of themselves they can be, don't we? But then I'd be just as guilty as he is if I lumped him in with maybe a few that are like that, wouldn't I?

 

The homeschooling community isn't perfect. There are families who aren't doing their children any favors by homeschooling. You should never think that just because your kids are at home that they will automatically get a better education.

 

We in the homeschooling community have an obligation to truly put our children first and be willing to invest the time and money to providing the best we can for our kids--to ensure that they meet their potential.

 

I'm a little concerned about mine right now because I had her in two different courses outside the home and she wanted out of both of them. But she's 12, also. Socially she's fine; she gets along with everyone and has several friends, plus sings and performs in skits at church. Her friends call her "brainiac" because she can answer questions no one else knows the ans to and helps out with math, etc.

 

In one class, she said the kids just cut up in it, forcing the teacher to move really slow. Okay. The other class was a writing course and the teacher was really new-agey; they had them take a large piece of paper on the floor and illustrate death, destruction, disaster, disease, etc and the kids just drew lots of skulls and blood and named all the horror/slasher movies they watch at home, etc which we don't watch. So both classes I really couldn't argue that she should stay in them. ?? I'm just keeping an eye on her and plan to find something worthwhile for her to participate in HS.

 

I've always wondered if anyone has seriously done a study on the overall results of homeschooling on those attending colleges today or those employed. I've only heard mostly good, but I'd like to get an unbiased study by an outside party that doesn't have a private agenda.

 

The difficulty, though, is there's always a fudge factor with statistics, and it costs money to do this type of study. Who would pay for it?

 

So for now, all we have is hearsay, really.

 

My 2 cents,

Kim

 

 

I have a long and involved story to go with this but the shortened version is that my uncle, who is a professor in aeronautics (he's a retired AF fighter pilot), offered to pay for my kids to go to the local Christian school this year. His granddaughter (my kids' second cousin) goes there and is doing very well. My dh and I went back and forth about it only because there is always in the back of my mind this question as to whether we are doing the right thing or not. Plus, it's overwhelming and consuming, right?!?! Anyhow, after carefully considering and praying, we decided to not send them and now, the campaign has started. :glare: I've pretty much just let it all roll off of my back but this morning's email from him has thrown me off. He has a couple of homeschooled kids in his advanced math classes and he has been...shall we say...unimpressed. They show up late for class, don't know how to study or ask for help, have parents who meet with him who swear their kids are great at math and don't understand why they are not doing well in his class. He called me one day and asked me if I thought he was being too hard on them, and should he lower the grading standard for them to help them.:huh: He sees hs'd kids as train wrecks now because of the experiences he is having with them in his classes.

 

So, his email this morning said he had given the money to another boy who was going to be homeschooled. Here's the direct quote:

 

The scholarship money was quickly grabbed by another couple who wanted desperatly to send their son & he will get a great education. They were going to homeschool him & it would, in my opinion, have been a disaster & would likely have resulted in another of the untold failures of homeschooling.

 

Choice is a good thing for most people. I'm not sure there are many who can handle all of them. I see a side of education you don't see & what I see are often sad.

 

Honestly, until this morning, I've never doubted the final outcome of our homeschooling as being great. Daily, it's hard and I do wonder, but ultimately, I've been rock solid in my belief that hs was better than school. Suddenly, I'm unsure...this has so thrown me off this morning. Help.:sad:

[Debbie in OR]

Homeschooling as an education method needs to be done with as much integrity and effort as other education methods, IMO. If you let your students slack off and run rough-shod over you, you will have unprepared students. If you have good discipline in your house/schoolroom and teach your children well, then you will have prepared students. (Now good discipline in a homeschool is going to look different than in a classroom - it would be silly to take roll, have them line up etc.!)

 

I looked at your curriculum choices. They look like solid programs that are not "fluff". Your math esp. is a good challenging program!

 

This is one of those self examining questions that I think we as home- educators. If you assign work, do you require it to be done neatly and on time? Are your children teachable (able to ask a question when they need to, and able to listen and utilize the answer)? Are you on time for appointments? If you have a routine do your children follow it?

 

There is a side of homeschooling that has failed. But I think the side of homeschooling that is successful is greater.

 

Thanks, Jean. This really is a critical point and we have worked hard to make sure we are balancing rigor with delight. I probably err on the side of rigor and have to reign myself back to the delight side :tongue_smilie:. But those things are important to me. Esp. when I hear stories of hs'd kids who can't get up in time for a job or class.

[Debbie in OR]

Hmmm, going by the grammatical and structural errors on his email, his opinion has lost some credibility for me.

 

 

:lol: Michelle, That's exactly what I thought as I read it (but he won't think it's as funny as we do :tongue_smilie:) Thanks for the encouragement...I'm grateful.

[Debbie in OR]

Of course, they're going to blame the parenst of previously hs kids, but how much of it is because they were tossed into a completely different learning situation?

 

Please, I've changed math programs and noticed there was a time of adjustment, because the structure was different. It's not all because their undereducated, it's because they were taught with a different method.

 

 

But to him, it's only the hs'd kids who are struggling. I do know what you're talking about though, as we've had those transition times between curriculum failures. :001_smile: Thanks

[Debbie in OR]

I think one of our goals as homeschoolers is to find balance in teaching our kids. Strong academics with lots of fun and free time.

 

Right...now if I can be sure I've found that balance :tongue_smilie: (written as my kids are quickly working through their summer math so they can go outside and play "like all the other kids"!)

[Colleen in NS]

He has a couple of homeschooled kids in his advanced math classes and he has been...shall we say...unimpressed. They show up late for class, don't know how to study or ask for help, have parents who meet with him who swear their kids are great at math and don't understand why they are not doing well in his class. He called me one day and asked me if I thought he was being too hard on them, and should he lower the grading standard for them to help them.:huh:

 

I see a side of education you don't see & what I see are often sad.

 

 

When I went to the PHP conference, SWB talked about this in her college kids that she has taught over the years. I'm pretty sure she mentioned homeschoolers, too, not just public/private school kids. With homeschoolers, what stood out to me was that esp. among kids from Christian homes, they had a hard time standing up for themselves in discussions she led, when she was trying to play "devil's advocate" just to get them thinking about an issue from various points of view in her classes. Because I have high respect for her homeschooling AND college professor experience, this was a wake up call for me. It was the second time I'd heard that from people I respected, so I listened. The answer from both people was pretty much, "educate your kids well in thinking skills, talk with them a lot, help them think through issues clearly while they're still at home, let them read from a wide variety of books, let them learn from carefully chosen other teachers for high school classes that you don't feel up to the task for, etc. etc." - pretty much the advice we read here on the boards all the time, plus for me, the guidance in the WTM book.

 

Yep, the daily is hard at times, but I figure that each parent knows if he/she is doing the best for their kids, too. If you want your kid to do well in college classes, you are probably going to find ways to help them succeed in that, before college starts. The desire spurs you into action, I think. And if you are even concerned about it enough to write your post, your concern is probably going to spur you on to doing the best you can and seeking help when you need it.

 

You know what I found interesting about your post is that *he* called *you* to ask your advice about how to help the homeschoolers in his class!!! That should tell you about at least part of his opinion of the job *you* are doing! :)

[Shannon C]

How did these dumb screwed up homeschooled kids get into a college level aeronautics class anyway?

[gingersmom]

I don't think you did anything wrong. I think he should apologize to you and your husband!

 

A family member paid for my daughters private school last year ($24,000!!!) and when I told them that she would not be returning, that we would be homeschooling instead, they were shocked but then let the matter drop.

[Debbie in OR]

The "gap" that I see, is that your uncle seems not to be acquainted with you, your children, your approaches to homeschooling, and how it has worked with your children up to this point.

 

Your uncle also sounds like a very generous man !

 

See, that's the weird thing. He's been very perplexed as he has watched our kids and homeschool because I do think he sees it working well. As a matter of fact, part of his disappointment with us turning down his offer is that "the school needed our kids and my involvement". He has never come out and said it but I know he sees that they are doing well. I think that is partly why his comment this morning has thrown me off...like he has now lumped us in with that global assessment.

 

BTW, he is very generous :001_smile:

[MomLovesClassics]

First, these are your children, not someone else's. Nobody is perfect, and everybody makes mistakes. I can appreciate your uncle's generosity, it is rare that someone offers such generous gifts. However you are not obligated to accept this offer, and it appears he wants you to feel guilty. My assumptions could be totally off base, but he appears to be more of a perfectionist and expects everyone to always do their best. His math class is most likely not the easiest, but one of the toughest. Most likely there are few students who do excel in his class, because he expects way too much out of all students. He is using the homeschooled students as an example because he fears your kids will end up like his students. No one can guarantee that your kids will grow up and be perfect students all the time. If you are comfortable homeschooling your kids, then your decision needs to be respected by him, not knocked down. Be firm and let him know that it is your decision, and let him know you are grateful that he was able to help someone out that needed help.

[Debbie in OR]

You have a choice, but it isn't necessarily whether to homeschool or not (though of course that is a choice also). You have teh choice whether to be a good conscientious home EDUCATING mom or to neglect your children's education to some degree or another. I think you'll choose well and do well. And in a few years, you can show your uncle that SOME homeschool families really do take this very seriously and have excellent results because of it :)

 

 

Thanks, Pamela :001_smile: I'm going to camp here....(in the Conscientious Campground!):tongue_smilie:

[abbeyej]

He sounds like he loves you and your kids very much. He might also love his own opinions about things pretty well too. ;)

 

I find the best way to respond to people who have seen some poor examples of home schooling and home schooling outcomes is not to get defensive or argue with them, but simply to agree that indeed those people *do* exist. 'Cause, lol, they absolutely do! But then remind him that you are *not* those families, and that you're working hard to make sure that your kids do have a strong academic background, work ethic and social skills. You can even let him know that you appreciate his perspective in all of this, because it can help you grow and become a better educator for your children.

 

I also think Pamela was right on in saying that there are some people who truly believe that their kids are better off simply *not* being in school every day. They imagine that by not doing *anything*, their kids will still be far ahead of their public schooled peers because "home schooling is so much better". Well, um, no.

 

But you are conscientious, and working hard for your kids. And you know, you may even gain valuable insight from your uncle's experiences. Let him know that you value that -- even though you've chosen not to accept his extremely generous offer.

[8circles]

I have a different take. Your uncle doesn't sound very loving, generous or helpful to me. When you didn't accept his gift of a scholarship after careful thought, prayer and thanks, the correct response would have been for him to accept your parental decision and support you however he could. Maybe he could recommend a great math program (my math professor BIL did...now he uses my kid's ability as an example in his college courses!). Maybe he could donate the scholarship money to another worthy student quietly without comparing your situation and making you sound ungrateful. I'm insulted for you. He sounds controlling and makes me think your prayer (and gut) steered you right. Don't let folks break you down. I understand how it can feel. Homeschooling is tough enough without the 'help' of those who haven't been there. Let it strenghthen your resolve to teach your kiddos about self-responsibility, punctuality, great study habits, courtesy, faith and all the other things that go into homeschooling. Hang in there.:grouphug:

 

:iagree: My jaw dropped when I read his email to you. Not much love in there, IMO.

Edited July 24, 2009 by momoflaw

[Beebalm]

Debbie, your uncle reminds me of a friend from church....tough, demanding, military, serious, and a bit opinionated. No, a lot opinionated. He liked to do things by the book. When I met him years ago, he obviously liked my family and thought we were sensibile people. When he found out we HOMESCHOOLED (horrors), he showed his disapproval in ways that made me feel awful. He began to quizz my kids, comment on the superiority of this or that school, and generally annoy me. However, he has come completely around and now admires my spunk. He has said to others (although he would die if he knew I heard it), that our household is an example of homeschooling done right. I think your uncle admires your spunk (or will in the end). Maybe his pride is a bit wounded because you didn't take his advice. Hang tough.

[emmsmama]

Hmmm, going by the grammatical and structural errors on his email, his opinion has lost some credibility for me.

 

I thought the exact same thing!

 

How did these dumb screwed up homeschooled kids get into a college level aeronautics class anyway?

 

Snap! Good catch!

 

I doubt my decision to hs regularly - usually when we are having a rough day or I skip Science for a week, etc.; but I try to remember that hs'ing is about more than just academics and that when you hs you often take some of the advantages for granted (ex. no morning rush to the school bus, more time molding your kids with values you want them to have, catering the speed of your study to your childs strengths and weaknesses, etc.).

[Debbie in OR]

what stood out to me was that esp. among kids from Christian homes, they had a hard time standing up for themselves in discussions she led, when she was trying to play "devil's advocate" just to get them thinking about an issue from various points of view in her classes.

 

You know what I found interesting about your post is that *he* called *you* to ask your advice about how to help the homeschoolers in his class!!! That should tell you about at least part of his opinion of the job *you* are doing! :)

 

 

Colleen, I totally agree! We are big on reasoning and relating that to our lives. Those are the main reasons we decided to decline his offer. The school may be academically sound but they won't take the time to wrestle through things with my kids. Not because they don't want to, necessarily, but because they can't. There's too much stuff to be done. I love this part of our homeschooling....we can park on something all day if we want and discuss, discuss, discuss. Your comments are another reminder to me that this is, indeed, why we do what we do.

 

About asking my advice, I do think he has reluctant respect for what he observes in our hs and kids. I had thought he saw us as not fitting into his bias. But his email this morning just felt personally -- not generally -- critical. I'm used to his general opinion and haven't spent any energy on it. 'Til today...:glare:

[Debbie in OR]

I'm sorry I can't respond to each post as we are leaving for the day but I have read them all carefully and thank you, everybody, for your insights and encouragements. You all nailed some critical things and I feel much better equipped to respond to him now. But more than that, I feel a renewed determination to not be part of the failure statistics. Thanks again, all. :grouphug:

 

I'm off to salvage the rest of the day now that my blue funk is dissipating!

[tex-mex]

the campaign has started. :glare: I've pretty much just let it all roll off of my back but this morning's email from him has thrown me off. He has a couple of homeschooled kids in his advanced math classes and he has been...shall we say...unimpressed. They show up late for class, don't know how to study or ask for help, have parents who meet with him who swear their kids are great at math and don't understand why they are not doing well in his class.

 

Ok... I am going to jump in here coming from BOTH sides as a former schoolteacher and HSing parent.

 

My first impression is that your uncle is dumping all of his emotional baggage (or prejudice) on you. What has your relationship with him been like in the past? I am a bit shocked at his boldness.

 

Secondly, I have been in his shoes (this is a long time ago in the 90's) when I had numerous HSers enroll in my school (college prep charter school) and SOME of them could not handle the academic rigor. However, out of 10 HSers... this was around 2-3 of them who dropped out or were issues with moms taking our heads off with not catering to their kid's lack of academics. They usually ended up dropping out and putting their kid in the local ps. But it was a headache to deal with the irate parent. The remaining HSers were great (IMO) and did fantastic with the academic challenge. I never questioned why they stopped HSing. But there were always the scrutiny from HSing parents to the teachers -- a "wall" so to speak -- that honestly did create tension between us. Neither side bridged that gap. I can say it created a side to my thoughts on HSers being on the "fringe". The problem parents (former HS'ers) would always pull out their kids half-way in the year if they didn't get their way -- and reenroll them at the beginning of the next year. We dreaded those folk. They were horrible.

 

It was years later (a decade) that changed my mind from that experience with some narrow minded folk. I can say I have encountered many HSers from a wide spectrum and love them dearly. But my first impression of the HSing scene was not cool based on a few whackjobs.

 

So, why share this? Realize your uncle has some issues and this is not your fault. Set a boundary for a healthy relationship. He does not have the right to judge you or use $$$ to control you. Hopefully (like me), God will use this to show him of his biasness down the road. Hang in there.

[tex-mex]

Hi, I understand how you feel. I second guess myself alot. The grass always seems greener on the other side. I met a woman this past year that took her kids out of a charter school to homeschool. The school had all the "great" academics. But, it was too intense. This woman's kids were not having any fun!

 

 

LOL... sounds like the school I used to teach at! :D

[dirty ethel rackham]

But to him, it's only the hs'd kids who are struggling. I do know what you're talking about though, as we've had those transition times between curriculum failures. :001_smile: Thanks

 

In his position, he gets to see the homeschooling failures. However, he does not get exposure to homeschooling successes because they are at home being successful. He has a skewed viewpoint.

[mcconnellboys]

Okay, forgive me, please, if I've missed this in the thread, but do you ever test them with standardized testing? Or have you done TIPS testing, or IQ testing or any other sort of testing that would help objectively gauge how they're doing outside of work with you? If so, then you have outside corroboration that what you're doing is working. Have they taken classes yet with other instructors? If so, did they do fine in those? If so, then you have outside corroboration that what you're doing is working.

 

Perhaps some people can't realistically, accurately gauge what they do with their children at home. Perhaps they don't see that they're stepping in and helping to finish/correct a sentence, constantly helping to correct math errors, etc. Perhaps they're oblivious to the fact that their pre-teens or teens are using the answer keys to fill in the answers to their work....

 

I, too, have seen people claim that their children are working at a certain level when they don't exhibit that to me at all. I haven't only seen homeschoolers do this, either. We have a family in our neighborhood who have been throwing their 3 year olds in the pool for years, insisting they can swim the length of the pool. Hasn't happened yet (not even half). Same when they're four, etc. But they still do it every year and insist that they be included on the summer swim team.... Go figure....

 

It seems to me that his doubts about homeschooling cast doubt on your ability to be objective. This is indeed a problem for some parents. Perhaps you just need to show him how you assign and assess the work of your children.

 

Also, is he willing to pay their tuitions for the remainder of their school years? It seems to me that if he offers for a year or two, then doesn't have the money any more, this sets them up for grave disappointment if you can't find a way to afford payment after his offer is withdrawn....

[Colleen in NS]

I had thought he saw us as not fitting into his bias. But his email this morning just felt personally -- not generally -- critical. I'm used to his general opinion and haven't spent any energy on it. 'Til today...:glare:

 

Well, if it helps the blue funk to dissipate a little more, I just reread the quote from him that you included, and there is nothing in there directed right at *you* - it's about others he has seen. But I know, it's hard to hear strong opinions about something you are doing, even if the content doesn't specifically pertain to you. BTDT. Still, from my outside perspective of that little tidbit, it's frustration directed at others, not you.:grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

Debbie,

 

I think a huge percentage of homeschoolers "screw it up" (to use your words). There used to be (maybe still is) some stupid idea that kids were better off in all ways JUST BECAUSE they didn't go to school. HOW RIDICULOUS! But I know I made it sound like that a few times also.

 

Thing is that unfortunately many homeschoolers just do not do what it takes to fully educate their students. Many don't even do it to a mediocre degree. Many homeschoolers (imo, probably a majority though I won't guess how much of one) would just be better off in school where they could be consistently educated, getting an average knowledge base and half-decent basic skills. It's sad, but it's true.

 

But there ARE good homeschoolers out here and you most certainly can be part of our ranks! Our kids do well when they go to academic co-ops. They take courses and do well at private schools and colleges. They do have the skills they need and a broad knowledge base.

 

Being concerned about these things is a good thing. If you follow through (and it sounds like you will), making sure to address the concerns of year to year and final outcome, your kids will have an awesome opportunity. They WILL have everything they need.

 

You have a choice, but it isn't necessarily whether to homeschool or not (though of course that is a choice also). You have teh choice whether to be a good conscientious home EDUCATING mom or to neglect your children's education to some degree or another. I think you'll choose well and do well. And in a few years, you can show your uncle that SOME homeschool families really do take this very seriously and have excellent results because of it :)

 

I'm in a state in which standardized testing is required and I used to administer the Woodcock Johnson, so I actually tested about 50 kids per year, over a number of years. The fact is, that nearly all of them were doing very well. The ones who weren't typically had an LD--sometimes the test was a red flag for that. I only met one family who was being a whole lot slacker than I thought was appropriate. So in my experience, where I had actual data, it was by no means even close to a majority who would have been better off in school due to poor homeschooling practices.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Laurie,

 

I'm glad that in your area it is better, at least among those who are homeschooling in the legal manner. And maybe that is an argument for using testing (if you trust the test's standards). Maybe though *I* prefer the state stay out of *my* business, parents would actually educate their children if they knew they were going to face the test regularly.

 

When my kids were little, I thought everyone homeschooled WELL. My experience that last few years shows that homeschooling well is a rarity. Sad.

 

But I'm glad that other people are seeing something else. Wish conscientious educating moms was a description fo homeschoolers here.

[Debbie in OR]

but do you ever test them with standardized testing? Or have you done TIPS testing, or IQ testing or any other sort of testing that would help objectively gauge how they're doing outside of work with you? If so, then you have outside corroboration that what you're doing is working. Have they taken classes yet with other instructors? If so, did they do fine in those? If so, then you have outside corroboration that what you're doing is working.

 

 

Yes, we test at 3rd, 5th, 8th and 10th. I did test last year (4th) just for the fun of it. He tested off the charts in language arts (it actually put him at 13th grade :001_huh:) and 7th grade in math. See, this is where it gets interesting because my uncle knows this. I've tried to make sure he knows this without trotting my ds out like a heavy weight champ, because even though I don't put a lot of stock in standardized testing, I know my uncle does.

 

And, another interesting thing, my aunt routinely picks up my cousin's daughter (who is my uncle's granddaughter) from said school and they go over her homework. My uncle called me one day to tell me he thinks my aunt is "helping" their granddaughter too much with her homework because he wound up having to help her one day AND SHE COULD NOT DO THE MATH HOMEWORK WITHOUT HIM SPOONFEEDING HER. He was very distressed about this and I shared with him what we do. (I let my ds and dd struggle with their math if I know they can do it. I do not just feed them the next step. If that means they sit there for 30 minutes trying to figure out a word problem, I'm ok with that. I think part of their ability to do well in math comes from this ability to tolerate frustration as they work through it. Now if it's new material, whole 'nuther matter.) Anyhow, he was very thoughtful after I shared this with him and said he planned to tell my aunt this and adopt that method as well. So, I know he knows there is some rigor going on over here. And I've felt in the past that he values my input about schooling things. But I do have my own private doubts about what I'm doing and so his comments this morning totally fed those doubts.

[Debbie in OR]

Well, if it helps the blue funk to dissipate a little more, I just reread the quote from him that you included, and there is nothing in there directed right at *you* - it's about others he has seen. But I know, it's hard to hear strong opinions about something you are doing, even if the content doesn't specifically pertain to you. BTDT. Still, from my outside perspective of that little tidbit, it's frustration directed at others, not you.:grouphug:

 

Thanks, Colleen, I appreciate seeing this through other eyes. As the day has progressed and I have ruminated a lot on what you all have posted here, I do think it's just his disappointment speaking. And those of you who have commented about his fighter pilot personality (opinionated, arrogant) have been spot on (but I love him!). Which makes me feel that he really does see the value in what we are doing and is, truly, just bummed. The other (well, one of the many) piece to this is that the school is not doing so well. For reasons I am not totally clear on, enrollment is way down (some of it's economic, I'm sure, as it's expensive) and he is very concerned that his two granddaughters who attend will not have a school to go to next year. So, there are many parts to it.

 

I'm so grateful to all of you who took the time to post...I can't believe how helpful this has been! Having 20 different pairs of eyes looking at something really fleshes stuff out! Thank you again!

[JennifersLost]

Why is this person interfering in your life????

 

And why is there this idea that if a kid doesn't get math in HIS classroom, that child can not and will not ever understand math anywhere else.

 

This just pisses me off!

 

At this point I would take a break from this person and politely decline to discuss school anymore.

 

Honestly, the more I think about it - especially that last email about how the "other family" took the money and will be saved by it.....this isn't about education and it's not about the kids...

 

This is about CONTROLLING YOU.

 

Back away from the computer and give this person a back seat in your life, pronto!

[Joy at Home]

Laurie,

 

I'm glad that in your area it is better, at least among those who are homeschooling in the legal manner. And maybe that is an argument for using testing (if you trust the test's standards). Maybe though *I* prefer the state stay out of *my* business, parents would actually educate their children if they knew they were going to face the test regularly.

 

When my kids were little, I thought everyone homeschooled WELL. My experience that last few years shows that homeschooling well is a rarity. Sad.

 

But I'm glad that other people are seeing something else. Wish conscientious educating moms was a description fo homeschoolers here.

 

Pam, you seem to have biases against homeschool moms yourself. What is this based on? Not all moms educate for academic excellence, but for developing the whole person, building a Godly worldview, etc. I'm just curious what your experiences are that have shaped your view. Not being snarky, but honestly curious.

 

Thanks,

lisa

[kalanamak]

Pam, you seem to have biases against homeschool moms yourself. What is this based on? Not all moms educate for academic excellence, but for developing the whole person, building a Godly worldview, etc. I'm just curious what your experiences are that have shaped your view. Not being snarky, but honestly curious.

 

 

Not Pam but home-school, to me, means:

 

Home: developing the whole person, building XYZ

School: Academic excellence

 

To not do this is, to me, the brain equivalent of foot-binding. I applaud antibiotics and aerodynamic cars and non-toxic paint and the internet and the dramatic drop in infant mortality rates. Go, humans, go!

[kpupg]

He sees hs'd kids as train wrecks now because of the experiences he is having with them in his classes.

 

Clearly, these kids were not home schooled students -- they are suffering from home school failure. Your uncle would never have met them if their home school experience had not failed. He is judging all home schoolers by a couple of acknowledged failures. What amazing rational thinking.

 

I agree with everyone who is saying "you're doing fine" and "try not to second-guess yoursef." Time to put Uncle's email addy on "ignore."

 

Prayers,

Karen

[KrissiK]

Debbie, sometimes I wonder the same thing. (Sorry, I just read this thread, so I'm getting on the train a little late). I see homeschooled kids (highschoolers) who are doing just excellent, they're well-adjusted, wonderful children, and then again, I see friends of mine whose kids have gone through ps (and are now in high school) and they're awesome kids, smart, etc., I get so much flack from people (my own family) about homeschooling my kids, none of my friends do it, that I just wonder is it really worth it? What will my kids be like having been homeschooled through high school? Will they resent us for not giving them a "high school experience"? (though we may put them in a Christian HS) But, then again, what will they be like if they had a ps experience? Who knows? I guess we just do the best we can.

[DawnM]

Shoot. I thought I was the only one who saw them. :tongue_smilie:

 

Dawn

 

Hmmm, going by the grammatical and structural errors on his email, his opinion has lost some credibility for me.

 

I think the best determiner for your children's education is YOU. Don't let him second guess your decisions. It's not his choice, not his decision and none of his business.

[DawnM]

I do have to admit that if I were given a scholarship I might have taken it, BUT, that has no bearing on my opinions of homeschooling overall.

 

Dawn

[KidsHappen]

Hmmm, going by the grammatical and structural errors on his email, his opinion has lost some credibility for me.

 

I think the best determiner for your children's education is YOU. Don't let him second guess your decisions. It's not his choice, not his decision and none of his business.

 

Yeah, I thought the same thing but then I considered the fact that he is a professor in aeronautics so maybe he is more mathy?